I think the best part about the plasma gun is that it isn’t actually just exploding. Apparently when it overheats it dumps all the superheated coolant out the back at the wielder so that the gun itself doesn’t get damaged. Just peak 40k, kill the bearer to preserve the gun
@@dustinbragg1921 I mean just think Vents Upwards: It might blow a hole in the top of your transport or ship deck Vents forwards: Will probably slag the delicate components of the gun, will revisit in a moment Vents sideways: Melts the guys (and equipment) next to you in the line Vents down: see vents up, also will probably maim the wielder and cause light damage to the gun since the heat will dissipate back up Really. The guaranteed loss of the wielder, and no risk of loss to anything else IS ideal. The gun venting forwards is the only other real choice, and if the imperium has decided to not vent boiling gas at the enemy, there's probably a higher reason, like the loss of the weapon.
Boltguns: the literal most polivolent weapons in the Lore. You need to kill hordes? Metalstorm ammunition. You have robots to kill? Haywire ammo. You want to kill astartes? Get some Vengeance rounds! Need to kill Nids? Well, Hellfire ammo for YOU. You want anything dead? Take this Darkstar ammo to shoot black holes. Oh, you need to kill ACTUAL demons? WHERE DID I PUT THE BLESSED SILVER BOLT ROUNDS? Best gun, because as long as I got the ammon for it, I call kill anything.
.. Darkstar Ammo? That.. doesn't exist. Leagues of Votann use Darkstar Weapons, which are.. melee weapons, like axes, not bolt ammunition. Are you thinking of Vortex Rounds, maybe?
@allthenamesiwantedweretaken There are Vortex Grenades and Vortex Missiles for the Manticore. The black hole ammunition I mentioned is a niche thing I read once in a Deathwatch book a long while back, modified from Dark Eldar technology. I do not even remember if they were called Darkstar ammunition, just that it made a Lictor.... dissappear. Quite literally. The vortex ordinance sends you to the warp. Their other one just created a singularity, and you are .... gone.
Maybe they also missed a point with the Boltgun. Being both a regular gun and rocket assisted, wouldn't it mean it can be fired in space with more effectiveness? Also yeah, i thought the baseline bolter ammo was armour piercing high explosive, which is insane when you think it's basically a portable 20mm autocannon
Personally I think the lasgun should be S tier, because it shows the scale of 40K so well. It's a gun that is utterly *devastating* to anything on IRL scale and is a logistical dream. Despite that though, it's jokingly called a flashlight by the readers and gamers because of how weak it is in comparison to both the offense and defense that is brought to the table. It doesn't do jack to most armor and doesn't hold a candle to most other things being shot in the universe.
Agreed. It's the quintessential Sci Fi gun, that in any other setting would utterly dominate the battlefield. It's just held back because everything in 40K is so overpowered.
Sadly, in original Lore The Lasgun's performance profile was similar to the Autogun, and the Autogun has the performance profile of an IRL M-4 But it was cheaper and had more shots per battery replacement than an Autogan has before magazine swap.
@@kremlinkoa So an M-4 that has no bullet drop or travel time, a larger mag, and is even better to mass produce? Even if it had similar effect on target as a M-4, it'd still be S tier because of it performing the same role as a fantastic baseline to compare everything else to. Didn't know it had a similar profile _way_ back. I know when I started playing (I think it was 3rd or 4th? Been a long time) it was already far beyond a autogun in the lore.
@@leadpaintchips9461 No bullet drop, true But atmospheric diffusion meant it had a similar effective range. But yeah, better ammo per weight. And cheaper to produce. And in the current game, it kills humans about as much as it did back then. Notably, novels seem to be inconsistent on how effective Lasguns are.
the lethality of lightning is bizarre. sometimes a person can be struck and survive but other times a single bolt can take out an entire flock of over a hundred sheep by running through the ground. its so unpredictable and that makes it terrifying to me
I love the Admech’s focus on “ancient” weaponry. Despite clearly being advanced energy-slinging space magic wands in many cases they still have names akin to real-world early firearms. Arquebus, Jezzail, Caliver, etc.
The Heavy Stubber has it all: The looks, the funny name (Stubber), the imposing name (Heavy), the favor of the goddess of luck to land the finishing blow on everything from Space Marine Captains to Warlord Titans. If you could equip everyone with a Heavy Stubber, by Gork and Mork I would!
As an AdMech player in 10e, respect the heavy stubbers. They'll splatter T3 infantry (like humans), and even power armour saves will fail you eventually.
I think the heavy stubber makes sense lore wise. Like it's going to be cheaper and easier to manufacture on a large scale than something like a heavy bolter or a lascannon. And in stuff like Ghaunts Ghosts and Caiphus Cain, they arent coming up against Space Marine tier enemies 99% of the time.
@@SnakeHipsSimon From what I remember, most of what the Imperium fights is other humans. Bullets work perfectly fine with killing humans, don't need the super fancy tech to put holes in people wearing IRL modern flak and lower.
I’ve lost count how many books mention plasma cannon devastators. I think it’s clear these guys mostly go off the tabletop, I don’t think they consume a lot of lore.
To be fair, the SPAS-12 is a pump action shotgun with a semi-automatic mode! ((Technically a SPAS-12 is a semi-auto with a pump mode for low-power shells, but shhh))
the way the 40K shotgun is depicted in darktide is spot on, imo. the pump is there to work the action when needed (loading in fresh ammo from empty, clearing a jam, etc.) but otherwise it's a semi-auto shotgun at all times.
Presumably also to cycle the action on lower-power rounds? One of the major reasons riot police often still use pump action shotguns is because rubber bullets and the like will have much smaller propellant loads to reduce lethality, and as a result semi-automatic shotguns can have difficulty cycling; this is one of the major reasons that the SPAS-12 can fire in both pump-action and semi-auto modes. And the Arbites, despite the meme reputation, use nonlethal tactics at times themselves, so it would benefit them to have the ability to have a weapon that can cheaply handle low-power rounds.
Good topic for engagement farming imo, people who know too much about guns (like me, hi) are going to come in HOT with the “Well actually…” on this one.
Just our patrons last night already gave me enough lectures about shotguns to fill a lifetime... I expect this comments section will be painful to check up on in a few weeks.
@thepoorhammerpodcast For what it's worth, you earned back points with me for dunking on the 1911. We've had 100 years of pistol design, but you'll still get "tWo WuRl WaRs!" fanboys if you point out it's obsolete.
Its honestly surprising a men with a 3d printer, in the us, with a hobby like 40k joking called the racist autistic teen boy ip, wouldn't know everything about guns already.
I always understood Melta as like a "long range" fast-acting cutting torch. Plasma is plasma, flamer is like a flamethrower, and then what makes the Melta good anti-armor is that it's cutting through it by melting it in a heated concentrated cone of fire. Which, like a cutting torch has a relatively short range for efficacy.
I think it's more like an angry microwave. A melta gun doesn't shoot "fire" like a torch, it shoots invisible waves that wiggle the molecules of the armor (or whatever) until it thinks it's boiling. Besides maybe some heat wavering in the air, I imagine you wouldn't notice someone firing a melta, until the thing they're pointing at melts/bursts into flame. Now ORK Melta-equivalents are absolutely just a very, very big cutting torch.
It's actually discussed that one of the reasons the traitor legions had a massive initial advantage, they "adjusted" their bolters to be able to pierce power armour, whereas loyalist bolts were just bouncing off. In the one raven guard hh book.
Which makes sense. The traitors had time to plan their treason. Whereas only one guy in the Ultramarines even presented theoreticals for how Marine-on-Marine war would work prior to the Heresy. And that guy got reprimanded for it.
They were using a different type of Boltgun and also newer Power Armour. This was possible because Horus was Warmaster and had control over supply lines. And also the Dark Mechanicus on Mars, who build all thid for Horus forces.
Quick question. Are bolters actually any good against armor. Because I've both heard them described as baing mainly anti infantry but also sometimes that they are amazing at punching through armour.
@@matijasostojic4288I would assume the answer is typically no / with preparation yes, but various sources may gloss over the particular ammunition or whatever in use.
i remember reading a quote about the lasgun I will paraprhase because I can't find it. "The standard lasgun is capable of killing 90% of creatures in the Galaxy in 1 shot. Unfortunately all of them have been killed and we are left with the other 10% now"
@@iharpo9292 Bayonet kills get rolled into the lasguns they're attached to for statistics purposes. Otherwise, imagine the circumstance of stabbing something and discharging a shot into it at point-blank range. Which one would get credit?
In 9th edition; the admech Radium Carbine could be upgraded to Thorium Rounds; so I think its firing irradiated bullets compared to just straight up firing radiation.
In response to the arc pistol segment, I was once on a job (industrial electrician) where a maintenance guy shoved feeder wires (think almost 2" diameter of copper) into a live panel which we had left out of that panel for a very specific reason. What happened after was 480V unfused, passing through all of the metal in the factory safely into the dirt...at first. Fans started swapping rotations, speeding up and down. Lights fixtures started exploding. There was a loud throbbing hum "wum...wum...wum". Then an ear-shattering BOOM! BOOM-BOOM! Walking around the factory, we found three holes in the walls big enough to climb through, the metal charred in globby melted bits where it didn't vaporize, and holes in the dirt where energy had arced out into the ground. Everyone is ok now, but one tech did light on fire and jumped into a waste pool from basically a giant tumbler that turns crystalline silica into a kind of clay. So ya, don't get hit by an arc pistol.
>one tech did light on fire and jumped into a waste pool from basically a giant tumbler that turns crystalline silica into a kind of clay You can't just say that and not explain if that dude was okay or not, holy fuck that's awful.
I feel like combi weapons arent inherently a bad idea, because like you can mount things such as shotguns and grenade launchers under modern rifle barrels. So the idea the imperium just manufactured them together isnt too far off. I think it comes down to the design of the weapons themselves
Yeah, it feels like for something like a melta it makes a good bit of sense to want to have a longer range faster firing option but have an underslung melta for when you want close range anti-armor, etc. The disadvantage of underslung weapons is that they are bulkier and heavier, making handling your gun more difficult, but these are space marines in 40k and thus give zero shit about how heavy or bulky anything is.
Yeah I was thinking this too. I honestly love the Bolt Rifle with underslung Plasma, Melta, or Grav as then it functions just like the Astartes equivalent of an underslung grenade launcher on a modern weapon but for heavier/armored targets that bolts can't handle alone. Which makes perfect sense for veterans to carry for elite shock troopers as they're going to want to be able to handle anything they run into.
The remark on the "oh yeah i still have my stubber" hit so hard for me lol. I play knights, and its somehow never the heavy weapons on my armigers that make the final blow, its always that singular stubber mounted on their back.
Best description of a melta gun was flesh and steel? Correct me if I'm wrong, from the warhammer crime series. Describes it as basically a super microwave gun that stimulates heat in everything in a beam in front of it. There's a great scene where someone just got vaporized by it in a small room and a main character thinks "if I breathe, I'll inhale superheated particles of John and destroy my lungs"
That's how it works in Baneblade/Shadowsword as well, an infantryman uses it to heat up a drink in what one character remarks to be an incredibly dangerous move.
The comment on the heavy bolter filling a kind of niche of a between rocket rocket launcher and machine gun after shitting on what is the irl equivalent of that midpoint did get me, good job finally one of these that actually got me a little mad.
Shout out to the "Heavy Stubber" which is usually just the M2 Browning. Also not surprised but sadge no Helfrost pistol exclusive to the Space Wolves Iron Priest
A Claymore isn’t a “shapecharge”. A shapecharge works by superheating a cone of copper with proper standoff from the target, the superheated molten copper creates a jet and punches through armor, a RPG round is a shape charge for example. A Claymore is just a big shotgun shell
IIRC, it's not molten, but rather the pressure exerted is so high it just stops behaving normally, it punches through via shear mechanical energy exerting immense pressure on a small point
39:52 One of the Tech Priests in 10e has a volkite blaster. I believe it was the Dominus. There were actually a lot of Admech infantry weapons that weren't talked about(mostly from tech priests) such as the Torsion cannon, Transonic cannon, Volkite Blaster, Eradication Ray, Phosphor Serpenta, and Radium Jezzail.
Not mentioning the phosphor blast pistol feels like an oversight to me, that's an alternative to the arc pistol (radium pistol as well, but thats just a radium rifle but small)
NGL I will always have a soft spot for the Heavy Bolter. It's so unapologetically in-your-face about its purpose, and I love how widespread it is across the Imperium. But if we're talking about EVERY gun the Imperium's ever used, I will always love the Volkite range. The idea of a microwave gun is so fucking awesome.
I love that the Volkite isnt just a different flavour of " shoot superhot thing " anti tank Its anti tank as "doesnt matter how much armor it has, it's atoms will combust soon". And, even tho it was kinda messy, I love their 7ed rules, where if you managed to kill models with it you could score extra hits for the over irradiated exploding chunks piercing enemies. So freaking cool, and I love that League of Votaan Hearthguard (their termines) can get them as a ranged weapon for the whole unit to show how they actually understand tech
The rule was called "Deflagrate" and it is indeed, grate. Every wound inflicted causes an additional 'deflagrate" hit, just at the weapon's base profile. Hard targets might take a little extra damage, but "soft" targets go up like candles. It's almost the opposite of how volkite weapons work in 10e, since Devastating Wounds are more effective on targets with better saves.
Both excellent picks. Can’t go wrong with a gun that shoots exploding rockets the size of soda cans, not to mention it’s one of the few proper bolters a lowly guardsman can actually expect to operate (and not be on the receiving end of).
Honestly I think arc weapons are an evolution/adaptation of Volkite from 30k that the Mechanicus kept to itself. At least according to lore, many legions used a lot of Volkite chargers as their standard infantry weapon until the Heresy, when the simpler and easier to make Terran bolter took over that slot
@leojohn1615 kinda, yeah. There's a guy who makes gun rants on here, former Small Arms Repair for the US Army and they had him fixing everything from the M9 and M4 all the way up to the cannons on APC and yes, artillery pieces. Logically, no, that's a weapon that requires a vehicle to tow. I was referring to things that the IG Heavy Weapon's team can field. Ie. Autocannons, mortars, Heavy Bolters and LasCannons.
Fun Fact: Krak grenades are basically real (even thought the 40k depiction isn't very good), in WW2 multiple nations had HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) grenades i.e. RPG-43.
To further that point it was made to service the Italian police force. The semiautomatic fire mode is for regular shells. The pump action is meant for specialized bean bags for less than lethal but it has problems cycling them so you have the pump.
I was so confused when they said that a pump action can't be semi. I'm a filthy casual when it comes to guns, so I was questioning if my memory slipped somewhere.
I expect this to be the most common comment on this video. Last night the patrons listening to the audio episode rushed onto the discord to post this comment several dozen times. There's a LOT more people in the UA-cam comments section so this should be an entertaining drinking game this week.
In defense of the shotgun. A handful of shotguns nowadays have a pump despite being semi-auto because some shell types don’t output enough energy to cycle the shotgun on its own, requiring the pump. In Darktide the pump is also used to rack a round of specialty ammunition just loaded into the gun.
It is hilarious that they immediately mentioned the SPAS12 specifically, and don't seem to know that this feature is what brought the gun into prominence.
Fun fact, on the Tartaros terminator kit, the heavy flamer is in fact side-by-side instead of over-under, and has two igniters, which makes SO much more sense imo.
50:10 Hand flamers do/did exist, sort of, kinda. The germans issued them near the of ww2, they were called "Einstossflammenwerfer 46", "Single shot flamethrower"
I like the Krak grenade as a shaped-charge football. If you get a tight spiral on it, you can keep it facing the right way. Plus, it plays into the whole marine-as-jock aesthetic
@@DuceyRips To be fair to them - they do mention SPAS-12 minutes later. HOWEVER, my main gripe that got me to point this out is the fact that SPAS-12 in fact does have a functioning slide (english == 2nd language, pardon me); SPAStic 12 can run semi-auto with full power loads, the slide is for cycling the less powered loads (specialist ammo types, less-than-lethal shells, etc.)
@@Florkl Less than lethals were brought up as an example. I should be more precise and say, that iirc any shotgun shells with loads lower than MAGNUM don't cycle well in SPAS-12 and most semi-automatic shotguns. This doesn't need to mean less than lethal, this can mean birdshot... or really, anything that ISN'T a full powered slug.
So, for some fun nerding (y'all absolutely called that us gun nerds would happen to this episode), the bolter is a basically 19mm rocket assisted high explosive round. With a rocket assisted projectile, the rocket isn't there to increase the velocity so much as sustain the velocity, meaning what would otherwise be a big fat projectile that loses velocity quickly can actually go way goddamned farther than it should. Accounting for warhammer space magic, you're basically looking at a 20x82mm shell from and MG FF autocannon effective at far longer ranges than it should be, being fired out of a handgun or rifle
@@thepoorhammerpodcast It would be great if you just did an episode talking about stuff you learned reading the 1st ed core book. The Rogue Trader era was wild.
@Bluecho4 all the old editions had weird rules that are hilarious in hindsight. The old third edition guard codex had rules for a character that let you play top of the first round.
The closest thing to a Krak grenade that saw common use is probably the Soviet RKG-3 which was a hand held antitank grenade that pops out a merry little parachute when thrown so it falls on the armor in the correct orientation. It was rapidly superseded, because surprisingly troops don't appreciate when their grenades come with drag devices making them *harder* to throw a safe distance.
So for the plasma pistol being used as a grenade, there is one other time that comes to mind. In the battle sister VR game, you CAN rapid fire a plasma pistol for 5-10 shots, then you have about 3 seconds to throw it before it explodes.
Also, might just be a matter of being Just That Good. Alpharius might be a relatively physically unimpressive, sneaky git, but he's still a Primarch. Average Astartes, let alone average guardsmen, might just not have the awareness and reaction speed to pull off throwing the pistol at the right time.
The way Meltas are described, they sound more like what an anti-tank rocket does to tanks; There's basically a shaped charge usually covered with copper, so when it blows; it propels a thin jet of molten copper into the target and does... well what you expect molten metal does to squishy crewmembers. I would imagine a supercharged goober of napalm would do rather horrifying things to the crew if it penetrates... or is used on exposed infantry.
Hello it is me! That guy who knows the one unit that can take a plasma cannon! The munitorum servitors can take the plasma cannon. They can also take multimeltas. For 35 points you can get 4 servitors, 2 of which get to be equipped with heavy weapons. You can choose between multi meltas, plasma cannons, and heavy bolters. Bs 6+ does hurt badly, though with the take aim order and heavy keyword you can get it to a more reasonable 4+. With thier special rule of being able to attach to regimental engineseers that are already in a squad you can use these guys to sneak some surprising anti tank into a unit of infantry. Or you can be funny and attach them, plus a command squad to a unit of 20 to drop a slab of 30 models in a unit somewhere on the table. Probably not very viable but it would be funny, just watch out for those blast weapons lol.
Deathwing Terms, Scout/Armored Sentinels, Leman Russ Executioners, old box Dreadnoughts and Space Marine Devastator Squads can also take plasma cannons.
@@im_flat sentinels dreadnaughts and certainly leman russes are not infantry? Besides I was never intending to say servitors were the only infantry that could take plasma cannons. The reason I said that I know "The one unit that can take a plasma cannon" is because they said in the video I'm sure there will be a guy in the comments that knows the one infantry unit that can take plasma cannons. I just like goofing around with servitors and was in no way trying to say they were the only unit that could.
The way is understand meltas is that they basically fire an uncontained plasma beam/stream (as opposed to a magnetically self containing plasmid in plasma guns) which allows a serious amount of power, but reduces range significantly through dissipation.
So less Plasma Beam, and more Solar Flare gun, gotcha. I still think I'd rather have a regular plasma gun, I don't want to be close enough to know what a melted Ork smells like
@@bobthegamingtaco6073 I guess. It'll still be tighter spread than a typical solar flare though, as there needs to be focussing in the barrel (so that the gun doesn't melt itself).
@@Dokari-l9m awh that'd be the worst, you feel your body evaporate except for a cold spot around like, your kidney, then the space marine has to stop firing, spin you 180, and fire again to make sure you microwave properly
@@Dokari-l9mnah your not mad, that's the way it was written in 2nd edition wargear manual, I think they kept it as microwave based for a few editions then made up the current bullshit reason they spoke about
There are a couple factions who use heavy stubbers. The Arbites, Chaos Cultists, Genestealers. Typically the guys who don't have easy access to heavy bolters.
I think a great interpretation of the boltgun is in Darktide: It’s completely impractical, it kicks like an elephant, either overkills the shit out of infantry or does nothing, and then runs out of ammo in like 3 seconds. C-tier in use, S-tier in concept lmao.
"The amount of energy that would be needed to power a normal lasgun would be enormous" Remember, you can recharge a lasgun battery by throwing it in your firecamp ^^
I want to defend combi-weapons a little based on some old warhammer logic. Back in the day they were once per game weapons that fired using the profile of whatever the combi was (melta, plasma, or flamer) and otherwise were master crafted bolt rifles. They also mostly were just underslung from the barrel of the bolter, and in that way they were the undermounted grenade launcher or undermounted shotgun of 40k. That application was pretty cool I thought, your veteran space marine has gotten good enough with thir bolter that they can use the secondary weapon if the need a little more kick, but it only has enough ammo to do that once. Of course none of that redeems the combi weapon from any of the problems the bolter has to begin with, and the modern implementation is no longer the one shot bonus weapin that I once found cool. Then there's the elephant in the room of GW making a lot of really stupid looking combi weapons, I can't really forgive them for those...
I guess part of the problem could also be readability on a model. Warhammer weapons are all massively oversized so they're big enough in-scale to have visible & paintable details. "True scale" weapons would be really hard to distinguish from a distance, and older models just wouldn't be able to hold that fine detail.
30k has two forms of combis. There's the big combi (plasma, melta) that is one-shot. There are minor combis (volkite, flamer, grenade) that can be shot over and over.
Yeah In this context, they make a lot more sense, especially Melta. You do a combi melta because while you aren't EXPECTING to need to take on a tank, the option would be nice, and if you run into more than one you had bigger problems from the outset.
As a Salamanders player I get both the love for flamers and the People getting sick of you auto-hitting every shooting phase, "You're going to overwatch me again aren't you?" "Yes, Yes I am"
"British people don't understand guns" *Johnathan Furgeson, the keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK, would like to know your location*
The Krak grenade actually exists as described in real life, and in some form has been used since at least 1940, and is still in use today. It's basically a shaped charge on a stick, that you hopefully can throw at a tank before it runs you over, and if it does work, hopefully you've managed to get behind cover before you get ripped to shreds by fragments from your own grenade. If you remember the old "Death or Glory" rule from earlier 40K editions, that's basically what real life grenades like the RKG-3 were made for.
While the Inferno pistol is a bit.... odd, as an unlucky inquisitor faced with a chaos terminator, or a lonely space marine looking at a Venom crawler id be THRILLED i grabbed an inferno pistol over a laspistol/boltpistol , as its basically a handcannon, the 40k Deagle
Ya, the only people that I've seen even consider those options in the lore are people either using them to flex (because they're rare and expensive) or someone having it in case they're going to go against a walking tank (like an Inquisitor or named character) like your examples.
"I'm just here to interrogate the commissars about possible mutiny and now there's an Ork nob barreling towards me with a chainsaw-axe in each hand, I want this problem to go away Right Now."
10:00 I can vouch for the absurdity of lightning strikes. Had one hit across the street from me while I was at a stop light, and it felt like I'd been punched. The traffic lights went out for a few seconds too, and my car radio lost its signal. It was awesome 👌
I actually think the inferno pistol is fairly sensible, but it's not a battlefield weapon. It's for people like inquisitors who will be doing up close discussions with a wide range of targets, and really benefit from having a pistol that if they quickdraw and fire right, can take out a terminator in one go. Also, I honestly find it harder to believe that those bolter rounds would be the good option against xenos more than marines, or at least as much as marines. It only seems like it'd be good against normal humans, and kinda alright against Orks, except orks don't often care they have limbs blown off. Combi weapons are one I like the idea of far more than the practical form. They're like an underbarrel shotgun or grenade launcher, able to give a extra capability without changing weapon. Except almost all of them are designed horribly. Flamers I think the pistol is almost more sensible than the heavy, at least if you connect it to an actual backpack fuel reserve, like irl war flamerthrowers. Then you just have a lighter, easier to handle nozzle for the same effect. But the mid size flamer hits the best spot for having fuel to fire without requiring a backpack. I do think a lot of weapons in 40k suffer from having a standardised performance against all the races, logic be damned. Most often obvious with necrons, being weird super robots made of regenerating metal
For bolter rounds I know there are several varieties, but during the heresy era I don’t think many xenos races they fought had heavy armor. I know some human empires did and that led to heavy casualties for the astartes. But most aliens didn’t seem to have the armor needed to resist bolters. I could be wrong
Well it also makes sense for close range shock assault troops, which is why San Guard and death company have them, they are getting close anyway so the range issue is less problematic, so they have a small lightweight pistol that still packs a huge punch. They synergise super well in game with how both those units play as well. They aren't really much weaker either, they are S8 Ap4, with D3+2 damage at melta range so they just out do plasma pistols at close range and can kill tanks
On the topic of the Missile launcher... yeah the marine one's are stupid but the guard use infantry rocket launchers are pretty neat, got the panzerschreck looking one with the Cadian's, the Steel legion with their Panzerfaust 3 looking one and the Elysians with one that looks straight up like a Carl gustav. And I think it's pretty neat that the guard can use them as either stationary mounted launchers with a tripod or use them man portable depending on how you want to portray your models (still a crew served weapon as someone has to lug around those extra rockets) As for "how does that work on a grenade" in regards to the Krak grenade... Anti tank grenades have entered the chat (RPG-43 , Panzerwurfermine, RPG-6, RKG-6) most relied on explosive mass to disable tracks and such but the one's listed were shaped charge's, the RPG-6 becoming the most numerous Infantry Anti-tank weapon during the second world war for the soviets... is it impractical... yes especially when you could use a rifle grenade but it's cheap, easy to make and could knock out most tanks and it's modern successor the RKG-6 is still in use today.
Xenos would be the most wild list. Near light speed shurikens, squigs, whatever the hell tyranids have. Plus you have GSC guard weapons and the demolition charge.
38:04 I run a Dark Heresy game (warhammer ttrpg) and explained it this way because my players asked questions lmao. This happens often, it has become most of my job as a GM to fill in holes left by GW.
I don't normally get angry over nerd stuff, I find a lot of the star wars hate funny, but that pronunciation put every fiber of my being into assault mode lol
Iv never really been into podcasts and I tryed adepts ridicules and it wasn’t me, but you guys have something that just spoke to me. Thanks for being you guys
I gotta say that Old Dante's Melta Pistol is the worst designed melta Pistol I've seen on a model. The Sisters of Battle one looks more like an actual Pistol at least. Also, as a Thousand Sons player hearing "Inferno" used to describe a 40k gun makes me think of our version of Bolt weapons and it always makes me double take. Also Re: Plasma Cannons Dark Angels Terminators can take them as of their recent codex launch, and they got a new model to go with it. So yes, there is a (non-devatstator) unit which can carry those.
Technically there are 4 volkite weapons in 40k. For now. The Tech-Priest Dominus has a volkite blaster; The Questoris Knight Styrix has a volkite chierovile; The Knight Abominant has a volkite combustor; And the aforementioned Liuetenant has the neo volkite. In addition multiple legends' models has access to volkite weapons.
I think of melta as being a miniaturized and weaponized plasma torch, you cut through bulkheads and stuff with it, that’s why it has such a shorter range than a lascannon.
The pump on a full auto shotgun exists so you can still use rounds that aren't explosive enough to reset the bolt. You'll see this on guns like the SPAS-12 (it's semi auto, but has a pump). There are other reasons for the pump to exist, but it existing on a full auto gun isn't the worst from a realism standpoint. Oh my god, they just mentioned the SPAS-12 despite it being an example of what they were complaining about.
In some defense for the Inferno pistol: It won’t do much against a tank, but if an ork, daemon, necron, ogryn, space marine, grotesque, or some other horrific, unnaturally tanky nightmare comes running at you, you’ll want that over a basic las pistol.
Concerning Meltas: I think of it more a heretical crossbreed of a flamer (promethium as fuel/projectile) and a hollow charge (concentrating it into a beam). That could also somewhat explain the really short range - even compared to the plasma weapons.
For the heavy stubber the two components you spoke about. 1. The carry handle meant for dragging the weapon when handing off and getting in and out of buildings/vehicles/positions/etc. it also attaches to the barrel for quick barrel exchanges. 2. The barrel shroud aka the "cheese grater" is meant to keep the silly guardsmen from burning themselves when carrying the weapon or exchanging barrels during intense firefights
I think he was thinking of the Krieg/traitor guard heavy stubber teams ForgeWorld used to make. The Krieg one is two Heavy Stubbers mounted beside eachother on a wheeled carriage and the heretic one is straight up an mg42.
The galvanic rifle isn't just your traditional rifle: its special rounds literally burn out the target's potential energy into kinetic energy, basically weaponizing the target's own energy to kill them. Super Admech, and i love it
Listened to this on my way to work.... then i realized i gotta watch the video to see all the jokes. Curse you editor for making me listen/watch twice!
I think one of the best ways I can imagine Melta stuff is like the Ratchet and Clank magma gun. Because it's always shown as a fine stream of burny juice, right?
Brit here. A shotgun can have a pump and still be semi automatic. The manual of arms is familiar and keeps your hand next to the tube for reloading. The Spas-12 is an example of this. With the pump being there to allow the use of cartridges with insufficient power to cycle the action themselves. There’s a lot of weird stuff going on with guns here but this isn’t one do them
TBF both the heavy stubber and the heavy bolter can kill gods in the Sisters (or properly built Rogue Traders) hands. Also TBF any companion/main character can kill whole sectors with a casual building towards optimization in that game.
![The Complete Story of Destiny! From origins to Shadowkeep [Timeline and Lore explained]](/img/n.gif)
Actually, that shotgun was based on the Sturmtiger.
Alright, this one wins. Forget the million Spas-12 correction comments, this one just made me clean my drink off my monitor.
😂😂😂😂😂😂😂
@@thepoorhammerpodcast having your drink on your monitor was not reason enough to clean it off?
Krieg Shotgun is revolver shotgun. It is dope.
This is THE comment! 😂
I can't believe I let these HACKS borrow the art I commissioned for the playmat and they didn't even shout it out OR THEIR OWN MERCH
hello bricky
SAM LAKE YOU HACK! ...sorry, force of habit. POORHAMMER, YOU HACKS!
They truly do suck at shilling out
Oh damn, is the gun wall in that back a playmat?
They are bad at selling out
I think the best part about the plasma gun is that it isn’t actually just exploding. Apparently when it overheats it dumps all the superheated coolant out the back at the wielder so that the gun itself doesn’t get damaged. Just peak 40k, kill the bearer to preserve the gun
Did they ever consider venting the coolant in a different direction?
Nevermind, this is the mechanicum we're talking about here.
how else is the machine spirit supposed to vent its fury on users who fail to follow the proper rites of use.@@dustinbragg1921
@@dustinbragg1921never question the methods of the Omnisiah
@@dustinbragg1921
I mean just think
Vents Upwards: It might blow a hole in the top of your transport or ship deck
Vents forwards: Will probably slag the delicate components of the gun, will revisit in a moment
Vents sideways: Melts the guys (and equipment) next to you in the line
Vents down: see vents up, also will probably maim the wielder and cause light damage to the gun since the heat will dissipate back up
Really. The guaranteed loss of the wielder, and no risk of loss to anything else IS ideal. The gun venting forwards is the only other real choice, and if the imperium has decided to not vent boiling gas at the enemy, there's probably a higher reason, like the loss of the weapon.
@@aprinnyonbreak1290new headcanon, th8s is why hellblasters shoot on death. Theyre actually designed to vent the gas forward lmao
I was floored when Horus said "This truly is the poorest of hammers"
The Poorus Heresy
Peak fiction
But Horus used a mace… a BattleMace one might say… 40Million times he used it, inspiring his brother to make a war game.
Mr. Horus Hersey for you
@@Caseyuptobatthe Poorus Poverty
Boltguns: the literal most polivolent weapons in the Lore.
You need to kill hordes? Metalstorm ammunition. You have robots to kill? Haywire ammo. You want to kill astartes? Get some Vengeance rounds! Need to kill Nids? Well, Hellfire ammo for YOU. You want anything dead? Take this Darkstar ammo to shoot black holes. Oh, you need to kill ACTUAL demons? WHERE DID I PUT THE BLESSED SILVER BOLT ROUNDS?
Best gun, because as long as I got the ammon for it, I call kill anything.
.. Darkstar Ammo? That.. doesn't exist. Leagues of Votann use Darkstar Weapons, which are.. melee weapons, like axes, not bolt ammunition.
Are you thinking of Vortex Rounds, maybe?
@allthenamesiwantedweretaken There are Vortex Grenades and Vortex Missiles for the Manticore. The black hole ammunition I mentioned is a niche thing I read once in a Deathwatch book a long while back, modified from Dark Eldar technology. I do not even remember if they were called Darkstar ammunition, just that it made a Lictor.... dissappear. Quite literally. The vortex ordinance sends you to the warp. Their other one just created a singularity, and you are .... gone.
Maybe they also missed a point with the Boltgun.
Being both a regular gun and rocket assisted, wouldn't it mean it can be fired in space with more effectiveness?
Also yeah, i thought the baseline bolter ammo was armour piercing high explosive, which is insane when you think it's basically a portable 20mm autocannon
Personally I think the lasgun should be S tier, because it shows the scale of 40K so well. It's a gun that is utterly *devastating* to anything on IRL scale and is a logistical dream.
Despite that though, it's jokingly called a flashlight by the readers and gamers because of how weak it is in comparison to both the offense and defense that is brought to the table. It doesn't do jack to most armor and doesn't hold a candle to most other things being shot in the universe.
Agreed. It's the quintessential Sci Fi gun, that in any other setting would utterly dominate the battlefield. It's just held back because everything in 40K is so overpowered.
Absurdly lethal to 99% of the galaxy. Sucks that you’re the one using it on that last 1%.
Sadly, in original Lore
The Lasgun's performance profile was similar to the Autogun, and the Autogun has the performance profile of an IRL M-4
But it was cheaper and had more shots per battery replacement than an Autogan has before magazine swap.
@@kremlinkoa So an M-4 that has no bullet drop or travel time, a larger mag, and is even better to mass produce? Even if it had similar effect on target as a M-4, it'd still be S tier because of it performing the same role as a fantastic baseline to compare everything else to.
Didn't know it had a similar profile _way_ back. I know when I started playing (I think it was 3rd or 4th? Been a long time) it was already far beyond a autogun in the lore.
@@leadpaintchips9461 No bullet drop, true
But atmospheric diffusion meant it had a similar effective range.
But yeah, better ammo per weight.
And cheaper to produce.
And in the current game, it kills humans about as much as it did back then.
Notably, novels seem to be inconsistent on how effective Lasguns are.
the lethality of lightning is bizarre. sometimes a person can be struck and survive but other times a single bolt can take out an entire flock of over a hundred sheep by running through the ground. its so unpredictable and that makes it terrifying to me
I love the Admech’s focus on “ancient” weaponry. Despite clearly being advanced energy-slinging space magic wands in many cases they still have names akin to real-world early firearms. Arquebus, Jezzail, Caliver, etc.
The Heavy Stubber has it all: The looks, the funny name (Stubber), the imposing name (Heavy), the favor of the goddess of luck to land the finishing blow on everything from Space Marine Captains to Warlord Titans. If you could equip everyone with a Heavy Stubber, by Gork and Mork I would!
@@Kingofdragons117 That profile does sound fun actually. As long as you can drown the enemy in saves each turn, some are bound to fail eventually.
As an AdMech player in 10e, respect the heavy stubbers. They'll splatter T3 infantry (like humans), and even power armour saves will fail you eventually.
You must love knights.
I think the heavy stubber makes sense lore wise. Like it's going to be cheaper and easier to manufacture on a large scale than something like a heavy bolter or a lascannon. And in stuff like Ghaunts Ghosts and Caiphus Cain, they arent coming up against Space Marine tier enemies 99% of the time.
@@SnakeHipsSimon From what I remember, most of what the Imperium fights is other humans. Bullets work perfectly fine with killing humans, don't need the super fancy tech to put holes in people wearing IRL modern flak and lower.
“Couldn’t find an infantry unit that can take the plasma cannon”.
Pictured. Devastators equipped with plasma cannons.
yeah that's
that's the joke, champ
they literally say "berilio probably found one and has a picture of it up right now"
Also Deathwing Terminators 😉
I’ve lost count how many books mention plasma cannon devastators. I think it’s clear these guys mostly go off the tabletop, I don’t think they consume a lot of lore.
Grav cannon too
Pretty sure Deathwing Terminators also have them.
Edit: never mind someone already said that.
To be fair, the SPAS-12 is a pump action shotgun with a semi-automatic mode! ((Technically a SPAS-12 is a semi-auto with a pump mode for low-power shells, but shhh))
The 40k shotgun would instantly become cool if it was said to have slamfire.
@@falsehero2001 it's the China lake all over again.
Often depicted being fired without the use of its collapsible buttstock, no less!
Came for this comment haha they’re complaint about the pump/semi/auto then shouted out our real world equivalent haha
@@Artselen I didn't know you can slamfire a China Lake. Do you have a link to a source showcasing this? My Google-fu has failed me.
the way the 40K shotgun is depicted in darktide is spot on, imo. the pump is there to work the action when needed (loading in fresh ammo from empty, clearing a jam, etc.) but otherwise it's a semi-auto shotgun at all times.
Presumably also to cycle the action on lower-power rounds? One of the major reasons riot police often still use pump action shotguns is because rubber bullets and the like will have much smaller propellant loads to reduce lethality, and as a result semi-automatic shotguns can have difficulty cycling; this is one of the major reasons that the SPAS-12 can fire in both pump-action and semi-auto modes. And the Arbites, despite the meme reputation, use nonlethal tactics at times themselves, so it would benefit them to have the ability to have a weapon that can cheaply handle low-power rounds.
In dark tide it is used to load special ammo, widespread, slugs, and incendiary, ammo. Something that being able to add in on the fly is very useful
@@Halford_Steel yeah, which is actually exactly how the SPAS-12 is operated in real life.
Good topic for engagement farming imo, people who know too much about guns (like me, hi) are going to come in HOT with the “Well actually…” on this one.
Just our patrons last night already gave me enough lectures about shotguns to fill a lifetime... I expect this comments section will be painful to check up on in a few weeks.
@thepoorhammerpodcast For what it's worth, you earned back points with me for dunking on the 1911. We've had 100 years of pistol design, but you'll still get "tWo WuRl WaRs!" fanboys if you point out it's obsolete.
Its honestly surprising a men with a 3d printer, in the us, with a hobby like 40k joking called the racist autistic teen boy ip, wouldn't know everything about guns already.
Between the Plasma Gun and the 1911 takes, it juuuuuust barely makes up for the bolter take
@@theshamurai32 You can pry my 110 year old gun from my cold dead hands.
I always understood Melta as like a "long range" fast-acting cutting torch. Plasma is plasma, flamer is like a flamethrower, and then what makes the Melta good anti-armor is that it's cutting through it by melting it in a heated concentrated cone of fire. Which, like a cutting torch has a relatively short range for efficacy.
I always thought it was just a heat ray, but not sci fi plasma. Just superheated air in a cone.
I thought its Fusion Shotgun.
I think it's more like an angry microwave.
A melta gun doesn't shoot "fire" like a torch, it shoots invisible waves that wiggle the molecules of the armor (or whatever) until it thinks it's boiling.
Besides maybe some heat wavering in the air, I imagine you wouldn't notice someone firing a melta, until the thing they're pointing at melts/bursts into flame.
Now ORK Melta-equivalents are absolutely just a very, very big cutting torch.
It's actually discussed that one of the reasons the traitor legions had a massive initial advantage, they "adjusted" their bolters to be able to pierce power armour, whereas loyalist bolts were just bouncing off. In the one raven guard hh book.
Which makes sense. The traitors had time to plan their treason. Whereas only one guy in the Ultramarines even presented theoreticals for how Marine-on-Marine war would work prior to the Heresy. And that guy got reprimanded for it.
They were using a different type of Boltgun and also newer Power Armour. This was possible because Horus was Warmaster and had control over supply lines. And also the Dark Mechanicus on Mars, who build all thid for Horus forces.
Quick question.
Are bolters actually any good against armor.
Because I've both heard them described as baing mainly anti infantry but also sometimes that they are amazing at punching through armour.
@@matijasostojic4288I would assume the answer is typically no / with preparation yes, but various sources may gloss over the particular ammunition or whatever in use.
@@Bluecho4meanwhile, the space wolves. I’m sure they definitely never had to do that before the HH….
i remember reading a quote about the lasgun I will paraprhase because I can't find it.
"The standard lasgun is capable of killing 90% of creatures in the Galaxy in 1 shot. Unfortunately all of them have been killed and we are left with the other 10% now"
It was in a Bricky video talking about the 40k timeline
The Lasgun holds the Guard Bayonet, which has racked up more kills than any other weapon in the Imperium. As such, it deserves a special commendation.
I feel like theres no way the bayonet has outkilled the lasgun. However the guard bayonet is absolutely the deadliest weapin
@@iharpo9292 Bayonet kills get rolled into the lasguns they're attached to for statistics purposes. Otherwise, imagine the circumstance of stabbing something and discharging a shot into it at point-blank range. Which one would get credit?
My favorite description I've heard for boltor rounds is "A rocket propelled Red Bull can that explodes inside you."
In 9th edition; the admech Radium Carbine could be upgraded to Thorium Rounds; so I think its firing irradiated bullets compared to just straight up firing radiation.
In the 7Ed? codex, it states that it fires enriched uranium rounds. That's right, not depleted uranium, enriched.
@@MGPW Because AdMech look at the list of warcrimes, the way normal people look at The Art of War: as instructions.
@@Bluecho4hey I’m sure the Geneva convention got lost during the age of strife. And they never signed that thing. So go full balls to the wall
@@MGPWYeah; that checks out for admech
I miss when admech had cool stuff like that. Now we just have fart gas that causes battleshock.
In response to the arc pistol segment, I was once on a job (industrial electrician) where a maintenance guy shoved feeder wires (think almost 2" diameter of copper) into a live panel which we had left out of that panel for a very specific reason. What happened after was 480V unfused, passing through all of the metal in the factory safely into the dirt...at first.
Fans started swapping rotations, speeding up and down. Lights fixtures started exploding. There was a loud throbbing hum "wum...wum...wum". Then an ear-shattering BOOM! BOOM-BOOM!
Walking around the factory, we found three holes in the walls big enough to climb through, the metal charred in globby melted bits where it didn't vaporize, and holes in the dirt where energy had arced out into the ground.
Everyone is ok now, but one tech did light on fire and jumped into a waste pool from basically a giant tumbler that turns crystalline silica into a kind of clay.
So ya, don't get hit by an arc pistol.
>one tech did light on fire and jumped into a waste pool from basically a giant tumbler that turns crystalline silica into a kind of clay
You can't just say that and not explain if that dude was okay or not, holy fuck that's awful.
@@allthenamesiwantedweretaken woops yes he was ok, burned up quite a bit but you'd never know from looking at him now
@@titansquirrel4408 Thank fuck. I never thought I could be more concerned for a human over the internet than I was then, lmao
I feel like combi weapons arent inherently a bad idea, because like you can mount things such as shotguns and grenade launchers under modern rifle barrels. So the idea the imperium just manufactured them together isnt too far off. I think it comes down to the design of the weapons themselves
This. There's a place for combi-weapons. Too bad that most of them just are inferior to running one of either of the weapons being combo'd.
Yeah, it feels like for something like a melta it makes a good bit of sense to want to have a longer range faster firing option but have an underslung melta for when you want close range anti-armor, etc. The disadvantage of underslung weapons is that they are bulkier and heavier, making handling your gun more difficult, but these are space marines in 40k and thus give zero shit about how heavy or bulky anything is.
The point of the video is not what makes sense in the universe or ours. It’s all rule of cool and what they can cherry pick.
middling combi-weapons (40k) versus the chad DC-17m (republic commando)
Yeah I was thinking this too. I honestly love the Bolt Rifle with underslung Plasma, Melta, or Grav as then it functions just like the Astartes equivalent of an underslung grenade launcher on a modern weapon but for heavier/armored targets that bolts can't handle alone. Which makes perfect sense for veterans to carry for elite shock troopers as they're going to want to be able to handle anything they run into.
The remark on the "oh yeah i still have my stubber" hit so hard for me lol. I play knights, and its somehow never the heavy weapons on my armigers that make the final blow, its always that singular stubber mounted on their back.
Funny enough, the sturmtiger also fired a rocket propelled round like a giant bolter. "So its based off the sturmtiger"
Best description of a melta gun was flesh and steel? Correct me if I'm wrong, from the warhammer crime series. Describes it as basically a super microwave gun that stimulates heat in everything in a beam in front of it. There's a great scene where someone just got vaporized by it in a small room and a main character thinks "if I breathe, I'll inhale superheated particles of John and destroy my lungs"
You are absolutely right. That was such an intense description of a melta.
That's how it works in Baneblade/Shadowsword as well, an infantryman uses it to heat up a drink in what one character remarks to be an incredibly dangerous move.
Isn't this how they got the nickname hair dryers? Or is that just a my gaming group thing?
Mentioning MikeBurnfire is a crossover I did not expect but truly appreciate
My brain broke when I heard it because I was like “Wait, I clicked on Poorhammer, didn’t I…?”
It genuinely caught me off guard in the best way
These two are like those two in a different font
i believe this is the second time theyve mentioned them, and knowing zach i think he'd say yes if asked to collab, mike would probably too
The comment on the heavy bolter filling a kind of niche of a between rocket rocket launcher and machine gun after shitting on what is the irl equivalent of that midpoint did get me, good job finally one of these that actually got me a little mad.
Shout out to the "Heavy Stubber" which is usually just the M2 Browning. Also not surprised but sadge no Helfrost pistol exclusive to the Space Wolves Iron Priest
It looks exactly like a M3 50cal
The Ma Deuce never dies!
The M2 would serve into the 41st millennium.
So would the B-52 TBH.
A Claymore isn’t a “shapecharge”. A shapecharge works by superheating a cone of copper with proper standoff from the target, the superheated molten copper creates a jet and punches through armor, a RPG round is a shape charge for example. A Claymore is just a big shotgun shell
Big shotgun shell without the barrel
Afaik the copper isn't superheated, it's not molten either, it gets cold-formed by pressure alone
@@rudolfvonstrohhalm6948 anyways, it's high pressure and temperature wonk
I assume these work like a wobble wobble and self right themselves and blast up.
IIRC, it's not molten, but rather the pressure exerted is so high it just stops behaving normally, it punches through via shear mechanical energy exerting immense pressure on a small point
I always thought of Meltas as kind of microwave guns where they just send out a beam of intense heat.
Microwaves are just controlled Radio Frequency energy.
Old lore - that was true in 2nd edition wargear manual. Dunno when they switched to the other explanation
That was true for years, but not now, maybe again in the future
39:52
One of the Tech Priests in 10e has a volkite blaster. I believe it was the Dominus.
There were actually a lot of Admech infantry weapons that weren't talked about(mostly from tech priests) such as the Torsion cannon, Transonic cannon, Volkite Blaster, Eradication Ray, Phosphor Serpenta, and Radium Jezzail.
I actually expected phosphor weapons to be mentioned. Those things are insane
Not mentioning the phosphor blast pistol feels like an oversight to me, that's an alternative to the arc pistol (radium pistol as well, but thats just a radium rifle but small)
Don't fire a torsion cannon at your balls.
Worst mistake of my life.
NGL I will always have a soft spot for the Heavy Bolter. It's so unapologetically in-your-face about its purpose, and I love how widespread it is across the Imperium.
But if we're talking about EVERY gun the Imperium's ever used, I will always love the Volkite range. The idea of a microwave gun is so fucking awesome.
I love that the Volkite isnt just a different flavour of " shoot superhot thing " anti tank
Its anti tank as "doesnt matter how much armor it has, it's atoms will combust soon". And, even tho it was kinda messy, I love their 7ed rules, where if you managed to kill models with it you could score extra hits for the over irradiated exploding chunks piercing enemies.
So freaking cool, and I love that League of Votaan Hearthguard (their termines) can get them as a ranged weapon for the whole unit to show how they actually understand tech
The rule was called "Deflagrate" and it is indeed, grate. Every wound inflicted causes an additional 'deflagrate" hit, just at the weapon's base profile.
Hard targets might take a little extra damage, but "soft" targets go up like candles. It's almost the opposite of how volkite weapons work in 10e, since Devastating Wounds are more effective on targets with better saves.
Both excellent picks. Can’t go wrong with a gun that shoots exploding rockets the size of soda cans, not to mention it’s one of the few proper bolters a lowly guardsman can actually expect to operate (and not be on the receiving end of).
Thank you good sir. What are your choices?@@Vespuchian
@@Ninjat126 “volkite weapons in 10e” if you can call it volkite…
As an AdMech player, I really appreciate the time you took to describe how cool arc weapons are.
This edition has been really rough, but that helps.
Honestly I think arc weapons are an evolution/adaptation of Volkite from 30k that the Mechanicus kept to itself.
At least according to lore, many legions used a lot of Volkite chargers as their standard infantry weapon until the Heresy, when the simpler and easier to make Terran bolter took over that slot
It really has been rough hasnt it
I think I'd argue that crew-served weapons are still *technically* infantry weapons.
so a 120mm mortar is an infantry weapon?
@leojohn1615 kinda, yeah.
There's a guy who makes gun rants on here, former Small Arms Repair for the US Army and they had him fixing everything from the M9 and M4 all the way up to the cannons on APC and yes, artillery pieces.
Logically, no, that's a weapon that requires a vehicle to tow. I was referring to things that the IG Heavy Weapon's team can field. Ie. Autocannons, mortars, Heavy Bolters and LasCannons.
@@Triptides77 A fellow MikeBurnFire viewer, I see. That Pack Howitzer story is peak Military incompetence.
Fun Fact: Krak grenades are basically real (even thought the 40k depiction isn't very good), in WW2 multiple nations had HEAT (High Explosive Anti Tank) grenades i.e. RPG-43.
5:27 funny you mentioned the spas-12....it has a pump action and also semi auto action. It can switch between the two
its still stupid since nobody in 40k uses less than lethal sells
To further that point it was made to service the Italian police force. The semiautomatic fire mode is for regular shells. The pump action is meant for specialized bean bags for less than lethal but it has problems cycling them so you have the pump.
I was so confused when they said that a pump action can't be semi. I'm a filthy casual when it comes to guns, so I was questioning if my memory slipped somewhere.
I expect this to be the most common comment on this video. Last night the patrons listening to the audio episode rushed onto the discord to post this comment several dozen times. There's a LOT more people in the UA-cam comments section so this should be an entertaining drinking game this week.
@@thepoorhammerpodcastpickled liver any% speedrun?
Boltor rounds also explode on contact, so that makes up for however "small" brad thinks they are.
They burrow into a target first as their "mass reactive"
In defense of the shotgun. A handful of shotguns nowadays have a pump despite being semi-auto because some shell types don’t output enough energy to cycle the shotgun on its own, requiring the pump. In Darktide the pump is also used to rack a round of specialty ammunition just loaded into the gun.
It is hilarious that they immediately mentioned the SPAS12 specifically, and don't seem to know that this feature is what brought the gun into prominence.
I imagine in the case of Deathwatch this might also be a necessity of certain weird conditions, like firing in a vacuum.
Fun fact, on the Tartaros terminator kit, the heavy flamer is in fact side-by-side instead of over-under, and has two igniters, which makes SO much more sense imo.
Typical T Sons W
50:10 Hand flamers do/did exist, sort of, kinda. The germans issued them near the of ww2, they were called "Einstossflammenwerfer 46", "Single shot flamethrower"
a bottle of hair spray exists
Just like the HEAT charge on a grenade, it sucked, but the germans tried it. Look for the Panzerwurfmine.
What, why? Was there an actual reason for this or was it just some dumb idea like the Maus
@@dianauwu1312 Iirc, they were initially designed for paratroopers
I like the Krak grenade as a shaped-charge football. If you get a tight spiral on it, you can keep it facing the right way.
Plus, it plays into the whole marine-as-jock aesthetic
I mean.. 1st Edition Marines were basically superhuman frat bros and "Legions" were their equivalent of fraternities, so it lines up.
"What do you need?" ... "Guns, lots of guns!"
... and now rank them!
Even in the far future, John Moses Browning's Ma Deuce 50 is still in an arms locker somewhere lol
1st Edition (Rogue Trader) rulebook actually had the 1911 in there IIRC, lmao.
5:02 - For a bunch of Americans I see someone never heard of Benelli M4 or ESPECIALLY SPAS-12...
If you don’t look at the spas-12 and say “clever girl” out loud are you really even American?
@@DuceyRips
To be fair to them - they do mention SPAS-12 minutes later. HOWEVER, my main gripe that got me to point this out is the fact that SPAS-12 in fact does have a functioning slide (english == 2nd language, pardon me); SPAStic 12 can run semi-auto with full power loads, the slide is for cycling the less powered loads (specialist ammo types, less-than-lethal shells, etc.)
@@Schwalbe1728 you’re good I just wanted to make the Jurassic park joke
@@Schwalbe1728 Bold of you to assume the Imperium would use less-lethal rounds.
@@Florkl Less than lethals were brought up as an example. I should be more precise and say, that iirc any shotgun shells with loads lower than MAGNUM don't cycle well in SPAS-12 and most semi-automatic shotguns. This doesn't need to mean less than lethal, this can mean birdshot... or really, anything that ISN'T a full powered slug.
So, for some fun nerding (y'all absolutely called that us gun nerds would happen to this episode), the bolter is a basically 19mm rocket assisted high explosive round. With a rocket assisted projectile, the rocket isn't there to increase the velocity so much as sustain the velocity, meaning what would otherwise be a big fat projectile that loses velocity quickly can actually go way goddamned farther than it should. Accounting for warhammer space magic, you're basically looking at a 20x82mm shell from and MG FF autocannon effective at far longer ranges than it should be, being fired out of a handgun or rifle
Worth mentioning the 1911 is in the 1st editon core rule book in the conpendium weapon section
This is the extremely stupid stuff I love learning about early editions.
@@thepoorhammerpodcast best part about it cause i had to look it up the image showing it labels it as "emperor knows"
@@thepoorhammerpodcast It would be great if you just did an episode talking about stuff you learned reading the 1st ed core book. The Rogue Trader era was wild.
@Bluecho4 all the old editions had weird rules that are hilarious in hindsight.
The old third edition guard codex had rules for a character that let you play top of the first round.
His Most Holy fabricator general Johannis Moses Fuscusius's designs transcend millenia
The closest thing to a Krak grenade that saw common use is probably the Soviet RKG-3 which was a hand held antitank grenade that pops out a merry little parachute when thrown so it falls on the armor in the correct orientation. It was rapidly superseded, because surprisingly troops don't appreciate when their grenades come with drag devices making them *harder* to throw a safe distance.
So for the plasma pistol being used as a grenade, there is one other time that comes to mind. In the battle sister VR game, you CAN rapid fire a plasma pistol for 5-10 shots, then you have about 3 seconds to throw it before it explodes.
Also, might just be a matter of being Just That Good. Alpharius might be a relatively physically unimpressive, sneaky git, but he's still a Primarch. Average Astartes, let alone average guardsmen, might just not have the awareness and reaction speed to pull off throwing the pistol at the right time.
The way Meltas are described, they sound more like what an anti-tank rocket does to tanks; There's basically a shaped charge usually covered with copper, so when it blows; it propels a thin jet of molten copper into the target and does... well what you expect molten metal does to squishy crewmembers. I would imagine a supercharged goober of napalm would do rather horrifying things to the crew if it penetrates... or is used on exposed infantry.
Hello it is me! That guy who knows the one unit that can take a plasma cannon! The munitorum servitors can take the plasma cannon. They can also take multimeltas. For 35 points you can get 4 servitors, 2 of which get to be equipped with heavy weapons. You can choose between multi meltas, plasma cannons, and heavy bolters. Bs 6+ does hurt badly, though with the take aim order and heavy keyword you can get it to a more reasonable 4+. With thier special rule of being able to attach to regimental engineseers that are already in a squad you can use these guys to sneak some surprising anti tank into a unit of infantry. Or you can be funny and attach them, plus a command squad to a unit of 20 to drop a slab of 30 models in a unit somewhere on the table. Probably not very viable but it would be funny, just watch out for those blast weapons lol.
Hey dont forget SM Devestators, they get grav, plasma and Las cannons, heavy bolters, missles, and multi meltas
Deathwing Terminators can take plasma cannons too.
Deathwing Terms, Scout/Armored Sentinels, Leman Russ Executioners, old box Dreadnoughts and Space Marine Devastator Squads can also take plasma cannons.
@@im_flat sentinels dreadnaughts and certainly leman russes are not infantry? Besides I was never intending to say servitors were the only infantry that could take plasma cannons. The reason I said that I know "The one unit that can take a plasma cannon" is because they said in the video I'm sure there will be a guy in the comments that knows the one infantry unit that can take plasma cannons. I just like goofing around with servitors and was in no way trying to say they were the only unit that could.
Also tactical marines can take 1 per 10 man!
I love the way this episode goes.
1. Fake thing "Here's how this space magic works."
2. Real thing "Clearly, this could not work in real life."
The way is understand meltas is that they basically fire an uncontained plasma beam/stream (as opposed to a magnetically self containing plasmid in plasma guns) which allows a serious amount of power, but reduces range significantly through dissipation.
So less Plasma Beam, and more Solar Flare gun, gotcha. I still think I'd rather have a regular plasma gun, I don't want to be close enough to know what a melted Ork smells like
@@bobthegamingtaco6073 I guess. It'll still be tighter spread than a typical solar flare though, as there needs to be focussing in the barrel (so that the gun doesn't melt itself).
I thought meltas fired microwaves in a condensed cone. Not sure why though
@@Dokari-l9m awh that'd be the worst, you feel your body evaporate except for a cold spot around like, your kidney, then the space marine has to stop firing, spin you 180, and fire again to make sure you microwave properly
@@Dokari-l9mnah your not mad, that's the way it was written in 2nd edition wargear manual, I think they kept it as microwave based for a few editions then made up the current bullshit reason they spoke about
The funny thing is that Star Wars blasters are all plasma weapons, not lasers.
There are a couple factions who use heavy stubbers. The Arbites, Chaos Cultists, Genestealers. Typically the guys who don't have easy access to heavy bolters.
And Admech.
And Ogryn
I think a great interpretation of the boltgun is in Darktide:
It’s completely impractical, it kicks like an elephant, either overkills the shit out of infantry or does nothing, and then runs out of ammo in like 3 seconds. C-tier in use, S-tier in concept lmao.
In fairness tho a devastator marine can carry a grav-cannon.
So that's what replaced the Plasma Cannon.
@@vxicepickxv devastators just find any old tank weapon and just rip it off and hip fire it.
I know the audacity to not mention the original and not cheating grav cannon wielders
"The amount of energy that would be needed to power a normal lasgun would be enormous"
Remember, you can recharge a lasgun battery by throwing it in your firecamp ^^
I want to defend combi-weapons a little based on some old warhammer logic. Back in the day they were once per game weapons that fired using the profile of whatever the combi was (melta, plasma, or flamer) and otherwise were master crafted bolt rifles. They also mostly were just underslung from the barrel of the bolter, and in that way they were the undermounted grenade launcher or undermounted shotgun of 40k. That application was pretty cool I thought, your veteran space marine has gotten good enough with thir bolter that they can use the secondary weapon if the need a little more kick, but it only has enough ammo to do that once.
Of course none of that redeems the combi weapon from any of the problems the bolter has to begin with, and the modern implementation is no longer the one shot bonus weapin that I once found cool. Then there's the elephant in the room of GW making a lot of really stupid looking combi weapons, I can't really forgive them for those...
I guess part of the problem could also be readability on a model.
Warhammer weapons are all massively oversized so they're big enough in-scale to have visible & paintable details.
"True scale" weapons would be really hard to distinguish from a distance, and older models just wouldn't be able to hold that fine detail.
30k has two forms of combis. There's the big combi (plasma, melta) that is one-shot. There are minor combis (volkite, flamer, grenade) that can be shot over and over.
Yeah
In this context, they make a lot more sense, especially Melta.
You do a combi melta because while you aren't EXPECTING to need to take on a tank, the option would be nice, and if you run into more than one you had bigger problems from the outset.
At least the Adrastus Bolt Caliver (Custodian Combi-Bolter with an underslung Adrathic Destructor) looks dope as fuck.
As a Salamanders player I get both the love for flamers and the People getting sick of you auto-hitting every shooting phase,
"You're going to overwatch me again aren't you?" "Yes, Yes I am"
"British people don't understand guns"
*Johnathan Furgeson, the keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK, would like to know your location*
The hilarity is he says that...while being utterly incorrect about guns.
The Krak grenade actually exists as described in real life, and in some form has been used since at least 1940, and is still in use today. It's basically a shaped charge on a stick, that you hopefully can throw at a tank before it runs you over, and if it does work, hopefully you've managed to get behind cover before you get ripped to shreds by fragments from your own grenade.
If you remember the old "Death or Glory" rule from earlier 40K editions, that's basically what real life grenades like the RKG-3 were made for.
Almost struck by lightning twice, and can confirm. It is near-shit-your-pants, life flashing before your eyes, terrifying.
Arc pistol being so high is criminal, thing looks like a child's toy.
While the Inferno pistol is a bit.... odd, as an unlucky inquisitor faced with a chaos terminator, or a lonely space marine looking at a Venom crawler id be THRILLED i grabbed an inferno pistol over a laspistol/boltpistol , as its basically a handcannon, the 40k Deagle
Inferno pistols have always struck me as more of an anti-Lictor thing than an anti-tank thing.
Ya, the only people that I've seen even consider those options in the lore are people either using them to flex (because they're rare and expensive) or someone having it in case they're going to go against a walking tank (like an Inquisitor or named character) like your examples.
"I'm just here to interrogate the commissars about possible mutiny and now there's an Ork nob barreling towards me with a chainsaw-axe in each hand, I want this problem to go away Right Now."
It's not a "I need to delete that tank," weapon, it's a "I need to delete that guy," weapon.
I found this channel like a week ago and have binge watched like half the videos. Love Eric and Brad!
First Bricky playing with Heavenly and now Poorhammer refrencing RussianBadger, these crossovers are getting crazy for me
And MikeBurnFire with the gun rants.
10:00 I can vouch for the absurdity of lightning strikes. Had one hit across the street from me while I was at a stop light, and it felt like I'd been punched. The traffic lights went out for a few seconds too, and my car radio lost its signal. It was awesome 👌
I actually think the inferno pistol is fairly sensible, but it's not a battlefield weapon. It's for people like inquisitors who will be doing up close discussions with a wide range of targets, and really benefit from having a pistol that if they quickdraw and fire right, can take out a terminator in one go.
Also, I honestly find it harder to believe that those bolter rounds would be the good option against xenos more than marines, or at least as much as marines. It only seems like it'd be good against normal humans, and kinda alright against Orks, except orks don't often care they have limbs blown off.
Combi weapons are one I like the idea of far more than the practical form. They're like an underbarrel shotgun or grenade launcher, able to give a extra capability without changing weapon. Except almost all of them are designed horribly.
Flamers I think the pistol is almost more sensible than the heavy, at least if you connect it to an actual backpack fuel reserve, like irl war flamerthrowers. Then you just have a lighter, easier to handle nozzle for the same effect. But the mid size flamer hits the best spot for having fuel to fire without requiring a backpack.
I do think a lot of weapons in 40k suffer from having a standardised performance against all the races, logic be damned. Most often obvious with necrons, being weird super robots made of regenerating metal
For bolter rounds I know there are several varieties, but during the heresy era I don’t think many xenos races they fought had heavy armor. I know some human empires did and that led to heavy casualties for the astartes. But most aliens didn’t seem to have the armor needed to resist bolters. I could be wrong
As the joke goes: everything in 40k can survive bolter rounds, because anything a bolter could kill was driven extinct back in 30k.
Well it also makes sense for close range shock assault troops, which is why San Guard and death company have them, they are getting close anyway so the range issue is less problematic, so they have a small lightweight pistol that still packs a huge punch. They synergise super well in game with how both those units play as well. They aren't really much weaker either, they are S8 Ap4, with D3+2 damage at melta range so they just out do plasma pistols at close range and can kill tanks
@tajj7 they're a great fire and forgot weapon. Clear 2 dudes out then get to melee
On the topic of the Missile launcher... yeah the marine one's are stupid but the guard use infantry rocket launchers are pretty neat, got the panzerschreck looking one with the Cadian's, the Steel legion with their Panzerfaust 3 looking one and the Elysians with one that looks straight up like a Carl gustav. And I think it's pretty neat that the guard can use them as either stationary mounted launchers with a tripod or use them man portable depending on how you want to portray your models (still a crew served weapon as someone has to lug around those extra rockets) As for "how does that work on a grenade" in regards to the Krak grenade... Anti tank grenades have entered the chat (RPG-43 , Panzerwurfermine, RPG-6, RKG-6) most relied on explosive mass to disable tracks and such but the one's listed were shaped charge's, the RPG-6 becoming the most numerous Infantry Anti-tank weapon during the second world war for the soviets... is it impractical... yes especially when you could use a rifle grenade but it's cheap, easy to make and could knock out most tanks and it's modern successor the RKG-6 is still in use today.
Inferno Pistol is an equivalent of having pistol-sized Panzerfaust.
Huh. It sounds pretty cool, actually. Orky-cool, that is.
Nah
Da -and rokkitz are fer chukkin 'dem at infantry an' 'avin a laugh.
If wa want da tank gone, put da rokkit on a stikk an' whack it
Excited for the melee weapon tierlist, where they can finally review all fourty thousand warhammers
FANTASTIC episode. I would LOVE to see this done for Chaos and Xenos guys! You guys are killing it!
Xenos would be the most wild list. Near light speed shurikens, squigs, whatever the hell tyranids have. Plus you have GSC guard weapons and the demolition charge.
All flamers go up a rank in my mind because of how cool the barrel looks when painted right
I feel Berelio's pain, you're doing the work of the emperor dude
38:04 I run a Dark Heresy game (warhammer ttrpg) and explained it this way because my players asked questions lmao. This happens often, it has become most of my job as a GM to fill in holes left by GW.
14:42 to hear a physicist say " nookyelar"
I don't normally get angry over nerd stuff, I find a lot of the star wars hate funny, but that pronunciation put every fiber of my being into assault mode lol
9:25 Americans will go to so much lengths to avoid the metric system
Ah, my hyperfixation, GUN
Iv never really been into podcasts and I tryed adepts ridicules and it wasn’t me, but you guys have something that just spoke to me. Thanks for being you guys
"brother, get the flamer, the HEAVY flamer" *maniacal laughter ensues*.
I love the lascannon for the idea of 2 regular dudes one shoting a space marine
I gotta say that Old Dante's Melta Pistol is the worst designed melta Pistol I've seen on a model.
The Sisters of Battle one looks more like an actual Pistol at least.
Also, as a Thousand Sons player hearing "Inferno" used to describe a 40k gun makes me think of our version of Bolt weapons and it always makes me double take.
Also Re: Plasma Cannons
Dark Angels Terminators can take them as of their recent codex launch, and they got a new model to go with it.
So yes, there is a (non-devatstator) unit which can carry those.
Technically there are 4 volkite weapons in 40k. For now.
The Tech-Priest Dominus has a volkite blaster;
The Questoris Knight Styrix has a volkite chierovile;
The Knight Abominant has a volkite combustor;
And the aforementioned Liuetenant has the neo volkite.
In addition multiple legends' models has access to volkite weapons.
the British slander was wild in this episode
Thank you, it's what we do.
Slander must necessarily be untrue, I would believe anything negative about brits to be true
I think of melta as being a miniaturized and weaponized plasma torch, you cut through bulkheads and stuff with it, that’s why it has such a shorter range than a lascannon.
The pump on a full auto shotgun exists so you can still use rounds that aren't explosive enough to reset the bolt. You'll see this on guns like the SPAS-12 (it's semi auto, but has a pump). There are other reasons for the pump to exist, but it existing on a full auto gun isn't the worst from a realism standpoint.
Oh my god, they just mentioned the SPAS-12 despite it being an example of what they were complaining about.
Yeah but it still sucks, just like the SPAS-12. And the space marine shotgun is somehow even uglier.
In some defense for the Inferno pistol:
It won’t do much against a tank, but if an ork, daemon, necron, ogryn, space marine, grotesque, or some other horrific, unnaturally tanky nightmare comes running at you, you’ll want that over a basic las pistol.
Concerning Meltas: I think of it more a heretical crossbreed of a flamer (promethium as fuel/projectile) and a hollow charge (concentrating it into a beam). That could also somewhat explain the really short range - even compared to the plasma weapons.
For the heavy stubber the two components you spoke about. 1. The carry handle meant for dragging the weapon when handing off and getting in and out of buildings/vehicles/positions/etc. it also attaches to the barrel for quick barrel exchanges. 2. The barrel shroud aka the "cheese grater" is meant to keep the silly guardsmen from burning themselves when carrying the weapon or exchanging barrels during intense firefights
Heavy weapon squads dont have heavy stubbers, but you did fail to mention their missile launcher when talking about missiles.
I think he was thinking of the Krieg/traitor guard heavy stubber teams ForgeWorld used to make. The Krieg one is two Heavy Stubbers mounted beside eachother on a wheeled carriage and the heretic one is straight up an mg42.
The 'heavy stubber' is definitely supposed to be a M2 Browning. And for it to be nearly worthless is hilarious.
For AdMecha weapons - see Mechanicus game, its a great depiction with beautifull sound effects
The galvanic rifle isn't just your traditional rifle: its special rounds literally burn out the target's potential energy into kinetic energy, basically weaponizing the target's own energy to kill them. Super Admech, and i love it
Tau episode is needed so we can all talk about how all the railguns are the best weapons.
Listened to this on my way to work.... then i realized i gotta watch the video to see all the jokes. Curse you editor for making me listen/watch twice!
Just to be clear:
If you WANT TO... you can make a semiautomatic pump action shotgun.
I think one of the best ways I can imagine Melta stuff is like the Ratchet and Clank magma gun. Because it's always shown as a fine stream of burny juice, right?
Brit here. A shotgun can have a pump and still be semi automatic. The manual of arms is familiar and keeps your hand next to the tube for reloading.
The Spas-12 is an example of this. With the pump being there to allow the use of cartridges with insufficient power to cycle the action themselves.
There’s a lot of weird stuff going on with guns here but this isn’t one do them
That is why you buy a Benelli M4, and I give you my word they can cycle 2 3/4” target ammo without issue due to the double gas pistons.
knocked the editing out of the park on this one
"I have no reason to have that many assault cannons". Join the Deathwatch my friend, run 3 of them per 5 models!
Having played the Rouge Trader crpg I can confirm that heavy subbers can kill gods.
Atleast until they nerfed rapid fire no idea after that.
TBF both the heavy stubber and the heavy bolter can kill gods in the Sisters (or properly built Rogue Traders) hands. Also TBF any companion/main character can kill whole sectors with a casual building towards optimization in that game.