1 Hour of Traitorous Propaganda - Choosing your Chaos Space Marine Legion!
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- Опубліковано 10 лип 2024
- CHAOS REIGNS! On this episode, Brad and Eric talk about Chaos Space Marines! The day is finally here! Grab your popkhorne, sit comfortably in your Skull Throne and enjoy this lore episode disguised as faction focus to uncover which Legion is the best for you.
MENTIONED THIS EPISODE:
Poorhammer Podcast Episode 1 about Thousand Sons - poorhammer.libsyn.com/episode...
Last Week’s Episode with a Character Build for CSM -
• FISH FEAR HIM - The Lo...
Show Links:
Website: poorhammer.libsyn.com/
Patreon: / solelysingleton
Brad’s Twitter: / drruler
Eric’s Twitter: / onekuosora
00:00 Intro
01:53 Black Legion
06:40 Word Bearers
10:38 Night Lords
14:34 Iron Warriors
22:24 Alpha Legion
32:08 Red Corsairs
38:05 Creations of Bile
42:33 Emperor’s Children
46:42 Death Guard
50:11 Thousand Sons
54:55 World Eaters
58:15 Final Discussion
Licensed Music Used By This Program:
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“Thursday & Snow (Reprise)” by Blank & Kytt, CC BY
“First Class” by Peyruis, CC BY
“Funky Souls” by Amaria, CC BY
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Come join the Iron Warriors! We've got:
-please
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Hey man atleast we still have armor of contempt. sortve. kindve. not really....
they have to be iron within because otherwise the bullying would drive them to suicide.
and the deamonculaba
They have that rarest of things - a competent primarch.
I mean total salty little bitch of course, but competent.
@@thegeneralscall praise the dæmon calabasha
As an IW player, I can confirm hazard stripes are hell and painting them fuels my bitterness but I will suffer through it because it must be done. Iron Within
It is crazy the most minimalist CSM have the second most difficult paint scheme. (Most difficult if you don’t care about the lightning on NLs)
I’ve yet to put hazard stripes on my Iron Warriors, but that’s mostly because I’ve never really had any good yellow paints, since I’ve never needed them.
@@RecruitofApollo averland sunset is great. I freehanded them initially but now I use 2mm masking tape and it makes it quite easy. If you don’t want to fight the yellow I’d paint the panel white and use that imperial fists contrast paint. I would say they’re not so bad but freehanding them was legitimately rage inducing and required a ton of patience to get clean lines.
Iron Without
@@humantwist-offcap9514 But....Imperial Fists are stinky though.
16:32 Perturabo is also somewhat liked, because he is , well...competent. The joke is that during the Siege of Terra he was the only one who knew what he was doing, and he eventually rage quit out of frustration with how crazy everyone else on his side was.
Mortarion has joined the chat...
@@Emidretrauqe dude had a walking virus bomb I'd say that's pretty crazy, although effective.
@@jmoore112344 You don't invade Terra with pea shooters.
@@Emidretrauqe didn’t the moment he entered the fight the khan immediately kicked his ass
@@jerelly9469 I mean he more or less killed the Khan and Malcador had to bring him back, so it was far from an immediate victory for the Khan. It was more like a draw.
That's not to say the Khan wasn't absolutely badass for going 1v1 against daemon Mortarion. Also Khan was only out there because Sanguinius told him if he went he'd probably die but he'd save many lives, and the Khan was like well, that fucking settles it then. Dorn was mad but the last thing Sanguinius said to Khan was that when he sees Morty to shove that stupid rebreather down his throat.
Bile directly tells Slaanesh he views her more as someone would view a meteor, aka a force of nature not deserving of worship, Slaanesh then proceeded to half melt him
“Still not a god lol” - Fabius Bile
Fabulous Bill, turbo atheist.
The Chaos gods seem to like Bile still, maybe it’s just because he doesn’t give them what they want 🤷♂️
And just like a meteor its wrecked him
@@Goblinhandler 6z66666666666z76z66
"I DEMAND TO BE TAKEN SERIOUSLY!"
-classical Iron Warrior warcry
"Noooo..."
-classical Imperial Fists' response
@Aznrobot if those kids could read they'd be very upset
@@aznrobot9721 Rage and scream, failing to siege, Iron Cage, that's the true Fists responce. 😋
@@cegesh1459 Facts. I like both the IW and IF. The Iron warriors carried the heresy on their back, Perty is why Horus got to terra, and breached the palace.
@@cegesh1459 your space marines come from a daemonculaba
Imperial fists are BLU (Builder's League United) and Iron Warriors are RED (Reliable Explosive Demolitions)
Oh perfect!
Now everyone is gonna be confused when my red vs blue is yellow vs silver
RED is always on defense...checks out?
Both are incorrect. The Imperial Fists and Iron Warriors are a shade of blueish green
23:15 I had a similar idea: paint an entire army as Loyalists, then run them as Alpha Legion.
But different loyalists. Every marine in another chapter's scheme.
@@ravenknight4876 Could be a fun scheme, but I was thinking more along the lines of painting IF and "proxying" them as AL, effectively having two armies in one.
@@ravenknight4876run them as Deathwatch, all different chapters, but actually Alpha Legion plants
Have one actual Alpha Legion Astartes as your Warlord (this will be a lie.)
I always kinda wanted to do an army of Orks that worshipped Khorne, they just fit so well together. Blud for da Blud Guy, ‘eads for da ‘ead chair..
Corn?! Why would we wanna wurship dat?! Itz just a tall annual cereal grass much favoured for its large elongated ears of grassy seeds. Or sumfin.
They're too into worshipping Mork and Gork, because they're the killiest gods and could "totally" 1v1 Khorne. To them, Khorne is weaker than their own gods, and they only follow the strongest, so they follow Gork and Mork.
@@OGXenos a clan of orks who see the power of khorne could still be fun
@@milliondollarmistake Oh the Orks know Khorne is strong. They LOVE fighting Khorne. But they'd never stop following Gork and Mork. It'd be like a Custodes joining the Tau's Greater Good. It just doesn't happen; they're too loyal to the Emperor.
@@OGXenos This clan of orks love khorne even more than usual
Iron Warriors in true Iron Warriors fashion, got someone who hates them and their Primarch to write the Horus Heresy novels, and still walk away with new recruits.
Puerterabo stays winning.
Perturabo is so fun to watch when he actually gets to shine. Such triumphant pettiness!
he always had the bite to match the bark, he was just utterly abused as a force from the get-go, hell the siege wouldnt have been anywhere close to successful without him
When he smashes the titan model using the Phoenix’s face.
That the traitor’s could have won the Siege of Terra had he decided to stay.
@@startingfromlevelone9510 It wasn't looking good. Mortarion got banished, Horus was about to get killed, Guilliman and the Lion are en route and Horus gave away your position to Mortarion. At that point for Perturabo it was never about winning but about respect... which hardly anyone did besides his men and a few others.
I mean, what he did to Angron was legendary. Also, the entire Iron Cage thing was just epic. It's funny how when Peter Turbo gets to shine, he really gets to show off how badass he is.
fun fact the hazard stripes are a form of humour from the iron warriors, because of course the giant machine is dangerous but were going to put stripes to tell everyone that it is dangerous
"That, is funny to me."
The Iron Warriors unknowingly sharing some of that Imperial Fist sense of humour
@@jouheikisaragi6075i heard it in a slightly deeper voiced version of tts dorn and i can say its perfect. My fav part of tts was primarchs returning and the shenanigans it caused plus sinve they get SO MUCH SCREENTIME in the HH theres tons of material to riff on. I wish it had kept going, i woulda loved if they did an unexpected twist and brought back perturabo and have him not be the overplayed child we meme him as
@@iharpo9292 Perturabo: I am the only serious character in this show. That is the joke.
@@jouheikisaragi6075 like id love perty to be the chaos "straight man" kinda like what corax is to vulkan. God i miss tts.
I heard a fan interpretation once that the meaning of "hazard stripes" shifted over millennia, so by 30k they're just seen as "an ancient symbol that marks that which brings destruction."
I don't know if that was the original intention, but I still like it. Maybe we need some Slaanesh cultists in "parental advisory: explicit lyrics" t-shirts?
My (eventual) plan to paint my Deathguard is to split the paint scheme - have Mortarion and his Terminator body guards in the classic Heresy era scheme because they're stuck living in the past and have Typhus and his New Wave boys all in the new scheme because they hate the sentimentality Mortarion and co. have for the past.
I still remember when it was ambiguous in lore whether the Deathguard intended to go traitor or not. Back in 3rd edition they hadn’t sided with either side until the Siege of Terra and even then didn’t start for Terra until they got a distress call, they then deployed and on their way their were corrupted by the warp.
I always wanted to do Loyalist Deathguard because I liked their color scheme and their identity of being this implacable force just marching into the most dangerous combats with slow inexorable determination,
@@startingfromlevelone9510 that's why I've been planning to do my Primaris as Dusk Raiders.
@@Ozzblahing scythes on bladeguard would be sick
Thats a cool idea did you get it done ?
I like that idea but making the armour corroded and rusted with fungus growing on the shoulder
24:50 you talk about how they’re the sneaky legion and compare them to raven guard here, i actually read a really good comparison somewhere:
The three stealth legions work as follows:
Raven Guard: You don’t see them and don’t know they’re there.
Night Lords: You don’t see them but you know they’re there.
Alpha Legion: You see them but you don’t know they’re there.
😂
From what I remember, the 12 previous crusades being failures is old lore. It was retconned that they each had some objective Abby was trying to achieve, and he succeeded each time. Some of those objectives are unknown, but the one for the 13th is pretty obvious.
This is what I was about to say lol
Hell this retcon is old lore now woth it being over 20 years old
One thing about this old lore, is that from the get go it was always said that Abaddon did something or had another thing being done on the background, it just wasnt never revelead at the time. Looking at the 2nd ed codex, the first crusade is not considered a failure, since it rewards Abby with its shiny sword, and the other crusades as more of as devastating raids just to cause some damage to the Imperium.
And of course, since most of this lore is scattered on old codexes/editions and white dwarfs, it was easier to just say "fuck it" and go for the incompetence route.
In the end Abaddon was so competent that he fooled not only the Imperium, but the majority of the warhammer community under their noses.
The retcon is stupid he failed every time
@@logandelaharpe6362 nah
So happy to hear more Alpha Legion love and hype, they are so unique compared to the other legions. I can also confirm that your master plan of primaris Alpha Legion is worth it, primaris models lend themselves very well to the color scheme of the 20th
@@cp1cupcake I wish I could claim the minis shown in the video, but I do have another batch of primaris alpha legion that is so pretty. Why play ultramarines with ultramarines when you can play ultramarines with Alpha Legion?
I swear, reading Alpha Legion lore, to me, just sounds like that back and forth bit in Xavier Renegade Angel. That whole “you slumber, a cucumber” part.
@@cp1cupcaket least as far as you're aware.
Also this is a aside but PLEASE put the exodus from 30k into 40k or something else to act as a proper sniper unit in your army, even just a unique gun you can give certain models that isn't just a pistol or bolt gun.
Gotta hard disagree as an alpha legion player. Any clean "stock" pre-primaris armor I'd say works well for alpha legion. I have yet to see any non-display/battleline primaris alpha legion model look good.
My head cannon is that Robo G-man wasn't ressurected......It's just Omegon being an absolute memelord
For the night lords a few things. The foresight is incredibly rare only I think two other night lords had it. The home planet they’re from Nostramo is where Curze got his twisted sense of “justice”. Also the night lords trilogy is probably the best 40K series of books out there
It really sucks that 30k Alpha legion have such a cool rule, that hasn't made it into 40k. They're allowed to take an exclusive unit from ANY MARINE ARMY (with some restrictions of course). But it's so flavorful.
That's not even the best part about that rule! The best part is that you gain victory points if that unit dies!
The Red Corsairs in 3rd, were just regular marine models, painted in loyalist colors with their chapter badges Xed out in red…
These will always be the version I love.
Betrayed by idiotic beaurocracy. I'd choose them only because their grudge with the imperium is relatively fresh, and Huron proved his competence beyond most chaos lords
Bile is the man. "Names are for the sentient."
After years of Necron and Sisters playing trying to outplay and remember all the mechanics for Martyr Lady, grabbing a shit ton of chain axes and pushing Lord Avocado across the board and say "Take 85 wounds at AP 4 and 3 D" after shooting 4 pistols is a fantastic break after a long work week.
For the Death Guard, I always thought it'd be fun to play up the Garden of Nurgle aspect and have an army who just really loves gardening, and turns Imperial worlds into deathworlds full of swamps and jungles.
“look, i loved virus bombing and spreading plagues and disease on the imperium, but gardening is very calm. hey, can you pass me the elephant watering can? thanks.”
darkly enough, the Imperium just cannot accept that a Chaos Space Marine legion does anything other than destroy entire worlds, so they still hunt your legion even though you never did anything wrong.
**Inhales deep**
"Man I love the smell of carrion in the morning."
**feeds his pet pestilence flies**
I was thinking it would be fun to kitbash the Death Guard with this mushroom 🍄 theme like pox walkers could be made to look like clickers from the last of us and instead of death-shroud terminators you have death-shroom terminators
@spruceforester3038 that sounds awesome!! Time to break into Papa Nurgle's magic mushroom stash.
The storytelling concept that the world eaters color’s completely changed because khorne was salty that he didn’t get papa sang is too good to pass up
The night lords trilogy is legit my favorite space marine based story, it's one of the only space marine based stories that makes marines feel like real people. Sociopathic, messed up, disgusting people, but people. Admittedly they don't go deep on the humanity, but deeper than other space marine books I've read. They even manage to make the crazy bastards sympathetic... Sometimes.
Huh...for me ive always found them too be the silliest, least realistic, and hardest too champion.
Simply put, they are cowards.
Always running from a real fight, and just terrorizing civilians...all the while wearing those silly looking batwing helmets...with lighting strikes painted on blue armour....lol what ?😂😂😂
@@LongWarEnjoyer that would make sense if you haven’t read any nightlords lore because that’s literally how everyone else views them
@@LongWarEnjoyer because... that's what they were designed to do? Each of the primarchs was designed to act as a certain facet of war, each something of a specialist in their own right. Konrad was a weapon of terror, plain and simple and the night lords reflected that.
@@discipleofdagon8195konrad wasnt designed to be that, it wad the nature of the world he landed on. He was likely intended to have some kind of focus on law and order, but he landed on a planet where the only law and order was fear and violence.
@@LongWarEnjoyersaying theyre cowards is an oversimplification. They just dont excel waging a normal war. They can do it, but why bother when their own methods get the job done better (from their point of view)
It's worth mentioning the daemons used in daemon engines aren't exactly "valued teammates" as much as "sentient batteries", hence why iron warriors use daemon engines despite their distaste for chaos
Let's be honest, no one in a CSM army is a "valued teammate". That's the army with stratagems to shoot at your own troops.
A point about the Black Legion, they used to be "spearhead" experts in the old lore. So think Termies teleporting down in the enemies face or overwhelming firepower.
Drop Pods! Man, I remembered those recently, and it makes me sad how forgotten they are
@@mikek6298 Are drop pods still in the game at all? I don't remember seeing them on a table in a long time lol
@@garak55 Drop pods are still there, but... Primaris can't have them, and Chaos players don't have them without whoring themselves to Forge World. So they don't happen often.
So, the specifics of the speartip strategy employed by the Luna Wolves and Sons of Horus is to "tear out the throat, and let the body spasm and die", where a force targets enemy high command with a decapitation strike. Terminators just happen to be useful for this tactic because they can 1) teleport and 2) survive anything shy of full-on orbital bombardment.
On the tabletop, I'd pull the strategy off with Abaddon, some terminators and at least one obliterator for support. The oblit and terminators would clear a beachhead and allow Abby to target enemy HQs, which he'll usually find pretty easy against anything shy of a primarch.
@@DarksteelPenguin I assume they're also pretty bad in the rules too because I don't see them even thought about in theoretical list building
The Iron Warriors exemplify 40k to me. Industrialized brutality on an eye watering scale, emphasis on wanton destruction via heavy weapons, apocalyptic casualties that simply do not matter.
Also, they're so hardcore that they'll summon demons, just to force those demons into a furnance to fuel their war machines.
Also also, in HH there's a scene of them playing 40k to test tactics.
My head canon (which is correct) is that the alpha legion is fighting a legion civil war in the shadows, has been for 10,000 years. Alpharius and Omegon are still alive in a uber elite spy versus spy game. So many levels of indoctrination and personal goals have clouded this to the regular soldier. But the higher you rise really reflects how much of the real war you start to figure out.
I like the thought that they're so deep into their bullshit that most of them, the lower ranking goons at least, really don't know which side they're on.
"This is a lie" - Alpharius, probably
My spouse has a mix of chaos and loyal space marine models, they're painted in a very common color scheme, and he's playing them as Alpha Legion.
I love that!
Lore wise I think its pretty awesome that the Word Bearers founded the Imperial Cult.
Heretical lies.
The wordbearers were basically the only real winners of the horus heresy.
Lorgar won twice @@jonttopia
Honestly guys, read the Night Lords trilogy. It will imo change your entire look on the Night Lords.
It's important to note that the Black Legion is composed of all other legions. Even at its founding, it wasn't just Sons of Horus. Though, they probably did make up the bulk of the Legion in the early days.
I'd argue that it's entirely possible that some other legion's geneseed makes up the bulk of the Black Legion in current 40k. Even if I do personally think the Legion majority is still Sons of Hours, but nowhere near 50% of the Legion anymore.
The Black Legion is Basically remnants of the Sons of Horus + Some marines from other legions and loyalist turned traitors throughout the Millennia
If I remember correctly, Konrad Curze was basically Batman on his "home" planet...if Batman had gone very dark and taken over the planet.
I love the Word Bearers!
My imperial guard army is a whole host of conversions of traitor guard to looks like the word bearers color scheme.
I actually use a dark apostle for stand-ins for my commissars.
My vets, stormtroopers and "elite" infantry are converted to have additional chaos stigmata and mutations.
Big Mutants for ogryns.
All the tanks have spiky bits and such.
Oh shit, I didn't know that Peter Turbo's power actually works in that way, wtf that makes Big E's decision make a bit more sense and also gives the Iron Warriors as a whole more flavor. Pretty cool
peter turbo goes hard ngl
For Abaddon, the best way to think about the Black Crusades is to remember that it's an Imperial label assigned to his actions. The Imperium has thought "oh, crap, it's Abaddon!" thirteen times. For Abaddon, it's all just a continuation of the Long War. He didn't fail twelve times, he's still fighting the same war his father started.
No love for the Fallen, sadly. Maybe someday we'll get our rules back. The Alpha Legion diversion tactics sounds exactly like what Cypher does, too, where he has brought Imperial scrutiny to places only for them to find a Chaos or Xenos cult.
Chaos in general is allowed to be more complicated and interesting than the Imperium, because while the Imperium ain't nice it sure is the PoV for most of the setting, which means you see a lot more "nice" stories of bland heroism. Meanwhile like half the CSM hold both Chaos and the Emperor in utter disdain and are trying to navigate a malicious universe using whatever tools they have to hand.
With Konrad and the Night Lords, the murdering and psycho stuff didn't necessarily come from Konrad himself, but the Night Lords were inhabitants of Nostromo, which is a horrible crime ridden world. And the Night Lords (at least later on) were the worst of the worst of them.
They also didn’t mention the reason why Konrad was so crazy was because for the early part of his life he was pretty much feral, being raised by himself in the underbelly of a hive world after digging a his way out from near the core, eating people and like seeing they’re memories on top of these power of seeing the future.
Ah yes, 1 hour of Chaos Propaganda, the perfect thing to listen to while I paint my Grey Knights
Love the night lords personally my favorite chapter of loyalist that turned traitor. Talos was a good character the whole nightlords series is a gem.
"why did you become a space marine?"
"because I wanted to be a hero"
Talos deserved better
@The Happy Nurgling he even cared about uzess his brother inflicted with khornes rage. In the second book truly a good fella he deserved. Much better
Nightlords, absolutely irrelevant within the greater story but have some of the best books and characters, like Sev and Talos.
Its because ADB is the best 40k writer. Plain and simple. Hes made me like word bearers, world eaters, and night lords, 3 legions that were previously very one note and cartoonish. The emperors spears and celestial lions are my two loyalist chapters. And he basically MADE those chapters entire lore.
To quote one of the most well known Warhammer inspired Metal Bands:
*WOOOOORLD EATEAAAAAAR* (sick Guitar riff)
Bolt thrower made so many good songs i blast daily.
I think the fact that Abaddon is still fighting after 13 crusades is exactly why he is the boss. Think about it, CSM are outnumbered, have old / worse equipment, overall they shouldn't be able to fight the Imperium. The one thing they have is the power of chaos, but they don't really have this. Abaddon is such a boss that not only is he taking power from ALL four of the gods, he keep them all at an arm's length. He does not succumb. The thing is, the chaos gods are not a charity - they don't want him to success on his own. They want to control him, to see him succumb to their influence. So they won't give him the means to actually win - then he will never give in to them. They need him to fail until he fully embrace them. Abaddon is literally fighting outnumbered, out-geared and with benefactors that keeps pulling back their help when he gets too close to winning. But Abaddon doesn't care how many battles are lost, he wants to win on his own terms - he fights... The long war.
On top of that, he is getting some key things from each crusade, all leading to a bigger picture. And no, this isn't new lore to "salvage" him, it goes back to lore from like, a decade ago. Despite all of the above, he is not even fully failing his crusades.
Agreed.
The most interesting thing about the Black Legion is they are a legion consisting of either old guard Sons of Horus that still have the geneseed of the strongest primarch or members of other legions that got thrown out. So you have Black Legion characters that fought alongside the emperor himself serving under a literal ex-thousand son, and ordering a squad made of Emperors Children Rejects
20:10 In summary: "why *build* an incubation chamber when you can repurpose a naturally occurring one?"
IW grindset
I actually like Mortarion, he's a pretty tragic figure when you read Buried Dagger, and a lot of the Death Guard still respect him for freeing them from the Overlords. I believe the quote you took was from a follower of Typhus, who all have an inherent bias against Morty
Morty and Magnus both get bullied by the other primarchs 😂
@@billysipe5040 None of the primarchs were bullied persay, but a lot of primarchs disagreed with their methods.
I have to say Mortarion has my favorite design in all Warhammer. I really like how he looks. Typhus is epic looking too. I'm definitely a fan of the Death Guard and all things Papa Nurgle
Even though I'm a emperors children fan to my core I have to admit one of my favorite lore comes from I think the 8thed csm book where a lord on Terra sends assassins after a alpha legion warlord and then they latter discover the heads of those assassins essentialy in their fridges on TERRA
"The Iron Warriors play like Iron Warriors for Chaos" -Brad
I just looked up the Daemonculaba, yeah.............................................................................
My favorite interaction between iron warriors and their allies was basically the word bearers soyjack screaming nooo don't hit us! And the iron warriors chuckling back
As a night lords player, yeah we're fuckn crazy, but its kinda hard to argue that firebombing a planets population is better than torturing a few of their leaders. Also we have the weirdly achievable but also unachievable goal of uniting all of the Night Lords under Decimus who, like the Soul Hunter, has precognition/prescience to the level of Curze just without the drawbacks of Curze and the Soul Hunter, like losing sanity to the point of being criminally insane. Its achievable, but also not because part of why the Night Lords are so scattered is because the 1st Company doesn't follow a single warlord.
About bile it's explained better in his novels amd I'd love to see an episode after you've read the trilogy.
Bile isn't just a chaos denying atheist, he's also a nihilist he hates the emperor, the chaos gods, the other traitors and everything it's all come to stand for.
He's building a better race a new man to rule the galaxy once this one has burnt itself to the ground.
The little assistant he's got? The only model or example of one of his new men we've gotten but they're brilliant and bile loves them like they're his own children, ironically he becomes an emperor like figure to this race and it angers him and his atheism.
I always hated the Horus Heresy series for half of this stuff. When I got into Iron Warriors it was for the idea of this utilitarian army who did all the dirty work for none of the recognition, felt betrayed and let down, and joined Horus out of revenge. Then comes along the books and it's like "Lol and Perty-pants was a bum-face and smelled and was autistic"..... I was so thrilled that they took the story in that direction...
As for the Daemon engines thing I always liked that they got more dark Mecha stuff. It feels more like enslaving daemonic power and bending it to their will. It's not a God, it doesn't need to be worshiped, it's a thing. It's an unstable energy source that can be hammered into use.
I am more attached to the Thousand Sons than I am to... probably any other faction in all of fiction. I will defend my boys 'til the day I die - and Magnus, too. Magnus made mistakes, no doubt, but he tried to be a good dad harder than any other Primarch barring maybe Sanguinius. There's a common misperception of Magnus as this willfully-ignorant, reckless, power-mad warlock just raw-dogging the universe and not caring about the consequences, but that's pretty far from reality. There's a short story in one of the omnibuses called the Sixth Cult of the Denied, which shows a couple of very interesting things.
The first thing it shows is that the Thousand Sons *did* actually pacify a fair number of worlds during the Great Crusade (the world that the story takes place on is their 18th). Plus it's clear that they take the time to really pretty these places up, spreading their knowledge to all the worlds that they bring into the fold. They don't indoctrinate like the Word Bearers, they set up places of learning and generally raise the quality of life of the inhabitants to decidedly non-Grimdark levels.
The second thing it shows is that Magnus knew more and was more careful than anyone gives him credit for. The whole plot of the story is that a Thousand Sons magister, Hakoris, goes deeper into the Warp (they call it "The Great Ocean") than anyone else barring probably Magnus or the Emperor. He goes *waaaaay* deep, and has whole conversations with a bunch of entities that he finds there. Then he comes back and wants to create a sixth cult (hence the name of the story) focused around basically Daemonology. Magnus not only tells him no, he swears him to silence and banishes him from the Legion.
As to the busting open the wards around the Imperial Palace thing, hear me out on this:
Before Magnus psychically projected himself into the Palace, he first projected himself into Horus' dream to try to save him from falling in the first place. When he speaks to Horus, he says this: "It has taken me too long to reach you, and I do not have much time here. *The spells and wards placed around you are powerful* and every second I am here a dozen of my thralls die to keep them open." (from the book False Gods, by Graham McNeill - the same author who wrote A Thousand Sons, by the way)
Think about the implications of that. Magnus had *just dealt with* wards placed around Horus, by the enemy, to try to keep him out. When he encounters *another* ward placed around the Imperial Palace, apparently to keep him out and keep him from speaking with the Emperor, what else could he assume but that it was placed there by the enemy as well? Furthermore, the entity that came to him and offered help (Tzeentch) was the same entity who had previously helped him "cure" the Flesh-Change from his Legion, so he had reason to believe that the entity was benevolent, or at least not malevolent. Yes, it was a terrible mistake, but if you look at the context it becomes much more justifiable.
And despite all that, he was still arrogant about his knowledge of the Warp. You can blame it on Big E not just... y'know... not telling anyone the truth. Magnus is one of my favorite Primarchs despite Thousand Sons not being my favorite Chaos Legion (that would be Alpha Legion). It's Magnus, Vulkan, and Jaghatai for me.
magnus got dunked on by the most illiterate guy in the entire imperium. he is such a Nerd
@@0g0mogosepikworld31 We talking about Russ here?
If so, let me remind you;
- During that fight, Russ had help from his two giant wolves (both of whom Magnus killed)
- Magnus was being debuffed by the presence of many Sisters of Silence nearby, whose mere existence is painful for Psychic beings
- Magnus was simultaneously holding back the Wolves from reaching the Thousand Sons holed up inside the pyramid behind him
And he *still* punched out one of Russ' hearts in hand-to-hand combat. If anything, that fight demonstrates just how powerful Magnus actually was, given how well he did against one of the top-tier hand-to-hand fighters among the Primarchs with the odds stacked so heavily against him.
@@peterlepper5199 first of all, that sounds really cool and I really would like to read that book
secondly 🤓
@@0g0mogosepikworld31 First of all, I'm not trying to sound elitist here, but if you can't be bothered to read three bullet points and one paragraph then you really have no business starting a lore debate about a book series.
Secondly, this is the comment section of a 40k video, we're all nerds here.
Peter turbo is fuelled by spite and anger, khorne would probably be just as happy with perturabo as he would be with angron
Bless the Algorithm for once introducing me to this podcast! I don’t play but I love the talk around all this.! You two make this so fun.
The best thing about CSM is their models. Even for a box of 10 chaffs, each model feels like a unique character and not a dude in 10 different poses.
I will add my vote to the recommendation that people read the Night Lords trilogy. Not just for the sake of the Night Lords themselves, but because book 2 has some Red Corsairs stuff in there.
The Badab War was honestly a very interesting conflict. Way more interesting, because it's not another conflict with Chaos. It's a war between factions of the Imperium, which you don't get a ton of in the lore. Arbitor Ian did a great pair of videos about the Badab War, one about it's in-universe narrative and one meta analysis of its history as a fixture in 40K canon.
Unlike the Horus Heresy, the Badab War isn't a huge thing. You don't need to read a whole novel series about it. It's self-contained, and thus really approachable in a way the Horus Heresy very much isn't.
Where was Chika? I thought we would discuss the one true chaos diety!
I kinda went with multiple Legions, but especially the Death Guard and the Black Legion (both those wearing the black and the "thrice-cursed traitors" still in green armour and still part of the Sons of Horus).
Perturabo just wanted a plain old coup against the Emperor while everyone else was high off of Chaos Coke and turning into demons so he logged out.
look man, I really just want to build a Sons of Malice army, aight?
*Small correction(s):*
-Lorgar has no love for Chaos. He simply understand the reality of their universe. Means to an end.
-Lorgar isn't even that Chaos-focused, but rather more interested in the entirity of the Empyrean and how it needs to coexist with reality.
-Word Bearers are the science boys of the bunch, the theoretical physicsists.
-Word Bearers are one of the few who could be crowned the winners of the Horus Heresy.
-Logar was never bothered by Corax, actively placed himself between his sons and his brother.
-In M41 Lorgar is once agan active and few even remember the myth that was Corax. What happened to him is unknown, atm.
To learn more about M41 WB i recomend the Bile Trilogy and Apocalypse, both are written by Josh Reynolds
Heresy... But tolerable.
2:30 well originally, he shyed away from renaming them to sons of horus because he thought it would bring to muich attention to him
only after the first seeds for his corruption had been layed by erebus (fuck that guy) did he rename them to sons of horus, a name that wasnt even suggested by him but by i think big e himself
been a long time since i last read that book :)
also, 34:40, the primarch of the astral claws is most likely papa smurf, considering their habit of domain building and their crack for logistics and such stuff.
Nightlord omnibus is awesome. I can really recommend it. Also night lord had the lowest number of civilian losses during their conquest and the least rebellion after that
The Night Lords are officially nicer than the Salamanders
I've had this idea on the backburner for a while that since a bunch of different warbands and legions send people to learn from Bile/get his help on things that for a Creations of Bile army I could paint up each unit as from a different warband, but keep the basing the same. So your warp talons would be Night Lords, your terminators would be black legion, your possessed word bearers, your obliterators Iron Warriors, etc. Would be a really cool look.
30:00
SPOILERS FOR THE ALPHARIUS BOOK
If I remember correctly its been retconned so the primarch Dorn killed was almost certainly Omegon not Alpharius. Guilliman claims to have later killed Omegon (who was almost certainly Alpharius) later but there isn't much info on that and may be a lie
Yesn't
But Alpharius can't be dead! I am Alpharius!
@@soap9277No, I am Alpharius
No, the book does no such thing. The idea that _Head of the Hydra_ retcons _Praetorian of Dorn_ is just yet more 40k misinformation based on third-hand retellings of novel synopses and memes.
What the novel does is start and end with the lines "I am Alpharius. This is/was a lie". This happens in the prologue and epilogue, in which the PoV character sneaks onto the Vengeful Spirit to make the first public appearance of the AL primarch in front of the Imperium. The implication being that the PoV character is Omegon posing as Alpharius for the first time, after the rest of the novel details Alpharius' own exploits during the crusade beforehand (as far as they're true, but the broad strokes likely are). It says *nothing* about what the twins were doing afterwards, especially during the heresy. This switch was for that one occasion, and they would later swap around many more times at a whim.
Yet somehow people got it into their noggins that it was permanent and every other mention of "Alpharius" was actually Omegon and vice-versa. If Omegon actually was killed on Pluto, it was not because of anything stated in this book.
CSM was my second army and I wanted to do Night Lords *so bad* but god getting good looking lightning as a beginning painter is so tough. Mad respect to everyone who plays NL
I run a Black Legion force where all the characters and some of the champions are based on the Lords of the Ezekarion. I even kitbashed a venomcrawler to represent Ceraxia.
Word Bearers have some exceedingly significant lore. They were chided for doing what the Emperor wanted. They are the ones that discovered that the Emperor is stealing power from the gods. Their primarch has also proven himself to be an intellectual, and not only a war monger.
Listen GW's specific brand of campy fun is exactly why 40k, fantasy, and AoS are as popular as they are and why GW has the staying power that it has
Night Lords got recruited from a world full of crime and were usually recruited from criminals. When Konrad was alive he kept them in check but now he doesn’t cause he dead
3:36 you know Brad was counting on his fingers for the number of times he said 'try' to be sure he got it right. Also I've been playing Alpha Legion since your Disco Lord video and I've been loving it
I absolutely was. 100% guilty.
I rewound the video three times to count because I could have sworn I just mis-heard, but Brad only says "try" 11 times. So "if at first you don't succeed, tryx11 again". Initial failure plus 11 times trying again = 12 black crusades, not 13. Poor guy counted on his fingers and still got it wrong ;-;
@@patelliott8282 I caught that too, had a good laugh at it
@@patelliott8282 I didn't want to take my socks off so I could only count to 11 with my hands out and pants off
Late to the party, but chartreuse is yellow with a tinge of green, not green with a tinge of blue. (like a pear 🍐) The color shown for sons of horus was more of a dark teal or pine green.
Chartreuse (I call it toxic green) is more fitting for the Death Guard of Creations of Bile. I think the word they were thinking of was teal, which is green with blue
On the fact of the daemonculaba it wasnt perty that made them but the warsmith honsou, big perty wouldn't stoop to that level of degeneracy 😂
I absolutely love these videos where you breakdown each subgroup. As someone who is still a newbie to the community, I have been doing a lot of info-hoarding. So these videos are perfect for my brain, especially since the banter you two have is a lot of fun to listen to; makes the content so much more engaging. Would love to see more of these with other army types, including AOS stuff!
Well, Perturabo is certainly on SOME kind of spectrum
To further the Spartan theme of the Iron Warriors, the Minotaurs, who are actual Space Marine Spartans, are a Loyalist successor chapter who’s parent gene seed are the Iron Warriors. They are also infamous for killing friendly Space Marines(or are the ones you send to kill friendly but non-compliant chapters), something they also share with the Iron Warriors.
Is that confirmed? I know lots of people like to speculate on chapters gene seed origins especially when their unknown, but is their an actual Canon source that explicitly states their iron warriors gene stock?
@@warlick752 I believe it was in an older Space Marine Codex, can’t remember the source from the top of my head
Yes Night Lords are assholes … which is what makes them AWSOME! Also you really need to read the Night Lords trilogy of books before settling your opinion. That series changed my view of them from “whatever crazy bastards” to my favorite legion and the only CSM army I play.
The 13 crusades thing can easily be explained by the GW as the 12 before where attacks to weaken and divide the defenders to multiple fronts and positions. aka, the goal was not to have a massive victory in the 12 ones, but to cause... drum roll... CHAOS!!!
And the 13th one was "the enemy is finally weak enough, it is time to strike!"
2:00
Technically false, Horus kept the name Luna wolves up until near the start of the heresy where he called his legion sons of Horus. Before that he was pretty chill, although that could be a side effect of the intense bullying and torment he went under as Nergüi before he was called Horus.
It was actually the Emperor’s idea to name them Sons of Horus, because he wanted to honor his favorite Primarch and his legion. Horus really wasn’t sure about this because he didn’t wish to place himself above his brothers, but the Emperor insisted so he did.
If you find yourself listening to Motley Crue whenever you're painting your models, consider Emperor's Children
I love your videos!
They are the best i saw around about 40k.
I love the way you explain stuff, the perspective and your sense of humors!
Can't wait for the next video!
Hey guys I not only just found your channel but I just started Warhammer and splurged way WAY TO MUCH ON MY FIRST SISTERS ARMY AND NOW HAVE 2500 POINT ARMY but I am HYPED to play some games! Keep up the great videos guys!
I'm glad you guys mentioned the Red Corsairs. The Badab War is my favorite lore, and so many amazing obscure chapters have their home in that lore. If GW eliminates these chapters and renegades, they permanently kiss my cash flow goodbye.
Night Lords represent! Love you guys.
My heart broke when he said there armor scheme was dumb...
I enjoyed the show, guys. Thanks for taking us through the different chaos factions. You sort of squeezed the lore through a Play-Do fun factory of bent humor and meme culture. I have an instinct to rebut a few things you said, but that probably misses the entire point of the episode. Anyway, I look forward to hearing more. 😅
“Word Bearers…. Are always the worst”
Argel Tal refutes your claim. The Anchorite agrees.
Erebus and Kor Phaeron prove your point.
Why we didn’t get a pick and choose faction traits section is beyond me. Really wanted to rock some Purge in 9th edition with a shiny new book…
I love Word Bearers from a lore and thematic perspective and I feel like they get an undeserving bad rap . Their bitterness and hatred for the emperor they once devoutly praised is wonderful. Being censured and humiliated for doing, in their eyes, the necessary and morally right work as patrons of humanity's divine savior is amazing reason for betrayal.
Waited all day just to get off work and watch this one, love the content :]
I’ve just bought the ultimate starter set to share with my space marine friend (because I need those new models to survive), and I’ve been binging these podcasts. As a relatively new hobbyist these have given me a lot of useful stuff to take into 10th. Love you guys!
World Eaters have always been my favorite 30k they have great lore
Yk some people like to call the Black Legion the “basic bitches” of CSM, but honestly they give me more of a “old veterans of the long war, watching all the youngins and constantly saying ‘I’m getting too old for this shit’” vibe
The thing is that unpainted space marine armor is greenish but iron warriors go out of their way to make it look like its unpainted metal
Late to this, but genuinely impressed you spent any amount of time talking about Night Lords without mentioning Batman.
The 12 black crusades failing was all according to Alpha Legion
Any true death guard geezer rallies around the real leader: my man Typhus
The Herald is a cool design. Pretty much all I like about Mortarion is his design and that's it. He's aesthetically cool af. Typhus has the 2nd best design in the Death Guard, I especially love the bone exhaust ports full of pestilence flies
Thanks for the breakdown guys. It's cool to hear some more lore stuff I never knew before. (Honestly I didn't know much about the Night Lords. I assumed with their style, they were basically the Chaos counterpart to the Blood Angels. Actually a little bummed to discover they aren't actually vampires. Like, just look at Konrad.)
From what I've heard, Curzes whole thing was that he had visions of a bleak future, and his cruel actions were driven by this fatalistic negativity.
Except it's shown - and outright stated by Sanguinius - that Curze's prophetic visions were actually *possible* futures, and Curze could actually have leeway on how things turned out.
As such, it becomes more like Curze trying to desperately justify himself, to prove to himself he's not some monster who enjoys his cruelty.
Conceptually, it's quite fascinating.
What, no Crimson Slaughter? They were the CSM posterboys for two whole editions!
(This is a joke.)
Ok but for real though, as someone with a Crimson Slaughter army what am I supposed to do with them? I've been fielding them as CoB, but I just want my schizo lads back
Wow this one got edited quick! What did you promise the editing dungeon, extra gruel?
I'm glad to know I'm not the only person who wants to use Primaris as Alpha Legion
I guess your overlap with The Devil Wears Prada crowd is going to be limited, but I think that's cerulian (as in the belt). Love your work!
Dear lord.. idk how to feel about any of this haha.
So yeah some of the Night Lords have the psychic issues I did. Like my boy, Talos