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6 5x54 Mannlicher Schoenauer
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- Опубліковано 9 жов 2020
- Vernon National was kind enough to let me try this gun out.
We checked the bore and it is .256 Caliber 6.5x54 MS
One of the nicest rifles I have had the pleasure to shoot. The video does not do the gun justice but hey, it's a Toad Production.
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Good video 👍. I have 2 MANNLICHER Schonauer’s and I love them , 1 in 6.5x54 and 1 in Winchester 270 ,,,, Sweet rifles !
I do love my Mannlicher Schönauer 1903/14 in 6,5x54MS, given to me by my late grandfather aprox. 20 years ago. My rifle has a 62cm long barrel, which gives the bullets a higher acceleration to 930 M/Sek and a GEE of 215 Meters. The rifle has a single stage military style trigger with a clear 0,7kg trigger point. I use custom made, leadfree CNC turned bullets (MJG by Lutz Möller) with fine drivebands and only 5,8 gramms weight. A phantastic rifle ammo combination, which i use for hunting since i got the rifle. The only change i made, was the removal of the old 4x scope. Got a new Leupold 3-9x40, which fits the slim rifle perfectly!
One of the nicest guns I have ever held. They are true artistic design with great function. The trigger was super light. Thank you for watching.
What a great rifle. So much character. Thanks for sharing, I always enjoy your videos.
Love that full wood!!
Thanks Toadley!, great to see!!
Cheers mate. 👋👋👋
It's easy to get attached to these old rifles. Being able to go through a box of shells and not buy the gun is a bonus:) At the rate mentioned it would have cost 100 dollars a shot. Those guns are bringing serious money these days. Out of my price range at the moment. Thanks and take care.
I just bought one today!!! I love it. I am excited about reloading it. Thanks for the video
How is the MS working out?
@@-oiiio-3993 An absolute joy to shoot and reload. I would like to add another in the future.
@@MarcosCaminanteNo doubt.
I have an M1910 (9.5X57) Take Down Model in fitted case that My grandfather bought in Ceylon, 1930.
Awesome peice of history! Man I can't believe they were doing all of that a 100 years ago.
They were “doing all of that” in the early 1890s!!!
@@danielcurtis1434 yea over 100 years ago.
My M1910 turned 100 this year, proofed 1922.
Good Brother . My Sporterized M98 Palmara stock is almost Identical to that piece. That Rifle is a really beautiful piece and a good example of how much better things were made back then. Having access to such a rifle speaks volumes to your integrity and care for what you do. God Bless you this morning and thank you for sharing with us such a great piece of the past!
Thanks Poppa Phill. They all have a history and it sure is fun to learn about it. The looking into things keeps my mind from going to mush:)
Gonna rewatch right now. Appreciate what you do Toadley!
Just checked out you channel. Did you ever listen to Lake back in the day? Key to the Rhyme was one of my favorites. Some of the tunes reminded me of them. Thanks!
You have some great music on your channel.
Beautiful rifle
Yes they are extremely smooth actions..... unbelievably smooth in fact, and as far as I know..... they are the ONLY rifle action in the world that if tilted forward while holding the trigger ?.... the Bolt will not only slide forward to CLOSE, but the Bolt will LOCK down on it's own ! Something pretty amazing to see on a Carbine hand made over 100 years ago.... Craftmanship !
Yes, indeed. Trigger pulled with empty chamber and magazine, tilt muzzle downward 30 - 40 degrees... _scchlock!_ - she's locked tight.
It's a dandy 'parlor trick' that my 1922 proofed M1910 Take Down Model does effortlessly. Superb balance of bolt, mirror smooth and precise machining, old world Austrian craftsmanship.
The 'pointability' is superb and the stock ideal for 'snap shooting'. M1910s are 9.5X57 - .375 Nitro Express Rimless.
I have a 1903 model and found the Graf spitzer ammo would not feed reliably. So I now reload all my 6.5x54 with 160 gr round nose bullets which feed consistently well.
Otto's marvelous rotary magazines, particularly on Models M1924 and prior, can be rather particular regarding their diet.
Load to original Eley specifications (original blueprints can be found on the 'net) and they'll feed like greased snot on ice.
Wow! I understand that the action is very smooth too. Thanks for the video!
Fit and finish is excellent. Thanks for watching:)
Yes they are extremely smooth..... as far as I know they are the ONLY rifle action in the world that if tilted forward while holding the trigger.... the Bolt will not only slide forward but also CLOSE and LOCK ! Amazing to see !
@@dirtlump Works on mine, a cased M1910 Take Down Model.
Nice one !
Beautiful rifle Toad. That powder did look like 3031.👍🏻
The reloading data for the 160 was right around there for 3031.
That is a nice looking rifle .
That would be a good one to cast bullets for. 256 bore with slightly shallow rifling. The bullets were 261 (dominion40's) 263 (Graf and son Hornady) and typical 264 sierras. Thanks for watching.
Way too cool!
Thanks for the information and great conversation last week. Vernon National treats me very well. They had a Hepburn target rifle last season that was out of my price point as well. We can't own all of them:)
Nice!!!
The 'Mosin' was adopted for use in 1891. The Austrian weaponry firm - which later became Steyr - was making black powder rifles of bolt action, split ring receivers and so forth since the 1870s or so. Realistically, it is more correct to say the Mosin copied other rifles.
You are right. I was very excited about being able to shoot this old rifle and didn't do as much research as I should have.
@@ToadleyBrowne Without doubt, that is an exciting rifle. I have a Y1903 Greek Mannlicher-Schoenauer, sporterized (it was a wreck) and I'm ticked pink to have it.
Ja!
The Mannlicher Schoenauer, introduced as M1900, shared common roots with Mauser's M98 in the M1888 Gewehr 'Commission Rifle'.
@@OldManMontgomery M1903 and Y1903, as you may know, share the same 'action', magazine, bolt parts.
@@-oiiio-3993 I have to disagree somewhat with your statement. The action of the Y1903 is a 'split ring' design much more like the M1888 Commission Rifle. The magazine is a rotary design (by Otto Schonauer - I cannot duplicate the Germanic language font here) vice the staggered stack, Mauser design type. They both have rimless brass cased cartridges using smokeless powder.
Double set trigger, when set, are light but notebook light". They just require practice. Once you get the feel they ARE the thing for offhand shooting. You almost THINK the shot.
There is an adjusting screw between the triggers of a double - set MS.
I have a model of 1903 that I love a lot. They are great rifles that work well for deer and handle very well it is just hard to find ammo for it sometimes.
Is anyone making 6.5 x54 ammo anymore?
@@johnbissell317 a few have but under current administration people have been more concerned with other calibers. Privy Partizan and Graf and Sons both make some but I have found that the 160gr load from Buffalo Arms has worked well for me.
PPU of Uzice, Serbia makes 6.5x54mm ammunition, or did prior to the 2019 panic. Presumably they will resume in the future.
@@OldManMontgomery Thank you. I have begun reloading for that cartrige as i could only find brass. Getting good groups from 160gr interlocks
@@asagrimmr1459 Reloading is the way to go.
Proper fitting projectiles, however, are getting to be difficult to source for the M1910 (9.5X57) as well.
I have a 1905 I think. That trigger is sweet. Tough finding ammo these days. Mine has an octagon barrel.
If unaltered, an M1905 is chambered for 9X56MS, a Mannlicher Schoenauer proprietary cartridge. Be sure to feed it nothing else.
I have reloaded for my M1910 (9.5X57MS) and have also purchased cartridges from Reed's Specialties of Oklahoma. A good guy and a straight shooter, but I don't see 9X56MS on his 'site. Could be worth contacting him and inquiring.
very beautiful rifle which was regulatory from 1903 in the Greek army.
Stutzen (full stocked carbine) sporting arm in video was M1903 sporting arm.
Greek Contract military Mannlicher Schoenauers were models Y1903, Y1903/14, Y1903/14/27, 'System 1930' and variants.
They were essentially the same as the sporting MS, of the same high quality and accuracy, dressed in military form.
@@-oiiio-3993 you are correct!
I don't know if Bell ever used the 6.5 Mannlicher, but his preferred cartridge was the 7mm Mauser, aka .725 Rigby
He used 6.5x54 M-S to kill everything on the African plains after being unsatisfied with the heavy-recoiling rifles.
He then went to 7x57 Mauser since it was hard getting ammo for the 6.5, and ammo quality wasn't where he needed it to be.
He later went to .303 Enfield due to consistent supply of FMJ ammo for them.
In one of his books he stated that he preferred the 6.5x54 Mannlicher- Schoenaur to all others for elephant. But as stated,he had problems procuring adequate supplies of reliable ammunition for it. He then went on to kill over 700 elephants with his .275 Rigby,(7x57 Mauser).
Yes, he did, and documented its use.
@@tgray505 Interesting. My knowledge of him comes primarily from Ron Spomer, who is an very vocal proponent of the 7mm Mauser's purported ballistic clone, the 7mm-08 Remington.
Nice! I noticed you have the Minnie Real version?
Howdy Bob Haehn. The 8x56 would kick like a rented mule in that gun. 6.5x54 is much more fun. Is that what you mean by minnie real?
@@ToadleyBrowne I missed spell check correcting it improperly. I was talking about the country and western personality Minnie Pearl who always had a price tag dangling from her hat. Sorry about the misunderstanding for lack of my proofreading
@@bobhaehn5470 The fun we have. I did a video take saying EXACTLY this: "Who was that comedian who always had the price tag on her hat?" It didn't make the video because I had too many directions to go. We think a lot alike Bob. Thank you for supporting my channel. The good old Laugh in Days or was she on He Haw?
@@ToadleyBrowne she was on Hee Haw and she was a nut
@@ToadleyBrowne I go back to life's experiences on the heavy slammers. I was just a boy when my father would take his Wyoming hunting trips. He brought home deer, antelope and elk at different times. Before his trips he would always check his "zeros" and I would go along. He had a 270 Winchester that was just beautiful and also bought a 264 Win Mag for the heavier game and the antelope for its speed. I remember seeing him shoot from the prone one time and his elbow plowed a small furrow with the 264. After a few years he no longer took the 264 along because he found out that the 270 shot nearly as flat and wasn't that much slower than the 264 and did it without the hammering. I will always remember that and also watching an Uncle shoot a 300 mag and seeing him just rock when it went off. Pop said "I figured out we ain't huntin elephants and rhinos here"
Hi we have a MS 1910 .375 rimless. I don’t know much about it and Couldn’t find anything regarding it anywhere. Could you please give some insight whether to inherit it or no. If you could please make a video regarding it thank you.
They are beautiful rifles. The caliber .375 Nitro Express may be the caliber but these old guns really need to have a chamber casting if you do not have 100% certainty of the round used. Many of these have seen many gunsmiths capable of reaming the chambers to accommodate wildcat cartridges.
MS 1910 rifles were initially issued with that .375 cartridge so a gunsmith would be able to verify it very easily. These guns are extremely sought after because they are very well-built and their style is what gun enthusiasts love.
There is money and then there is history. Long after the money is spent this gun will continue to be here for another Century. It just depends on weather you want to be the next care taker:)
If the gun is pristine I would not hesitate. If it has seen hard use then maybe get an opinion from a local gun shop. Thank you for the note. Hope this may help regarding your decision.
@@ToadleyBrowne I am really happy to have known a few details regarding the gun from you. Its just that in my Country India it is a prohibited bore and to find this cartridge. Lets just say I have tried finding it in a few hundred gun shops. Also according the gun laws import on firearms and animation is prohibited for civilians. Anyways I love your content and thank you for the reply. Keep hustling :)
@@AashchryaRathee It is always 2% of society that ruins it for everyone else. In the 70's I did a report in front of English public speaking class on "How to disassemble and re-assemble a Remington 1100 shotgun". I was 17 and drove to school and brought the cased gun to the office and let the Principal know I had a report on this gun to do in my 2nd period English class.
We all hunted and target practiced in the area where I lived so it was not even a concern. Once the report was completed, I went out to the student parking lot and put it in the trunk and brought it home. I was given a B+ for a grade on the Oral report from my teacher. It is sad to see how far we have degraded regarding how the 2% are now running our world. Sorry for the long story but I thought you would find it interesting. May good fortune come your way. M.
@@ToadleyBrowne Wow. you are awesome
@@AashchryaRathee I would be interesting in that rifle if you are interested in selling
I have more than a few Full Stock Mannlicher Schoenaur's 1903's and 1908's with set trigger's, and some still complete with German Claw Mounted 1920's Scopes(Kahles & Dialtyn 4X).... and yes the set trigger can be touchy.
But for all of my Mannlicher Schoenaur Model 1903's in 6.5X54..... and Model 1908's in 8X56.... I've never seen nor heard of a model "1908" chambered in 6.5X54 ?
Just saying.... as far as I know the MS 6.5X54 was strictly a Model 1903 round ? and the MS8X56 a strictly Model 1908 round ?
And ALL of the Boxes of Vintage Western Ammo I have in both 6.5X54 and 8X56 corroborate each as "strictly" for Model 1903 and Model 1908 respectively ?
How in the World did this Model "1908" end up being Chambered/Barreled for 6.5X54 ? Reworked ?
For 15.00 and a twelve week wait they would chamber a special order caliber. 6.5, 8.2, 9 and 9.5 mm. About 20 pages in on this very interesting link there is an ad regarding special orders. Thank you for your comment.www.africahunting.com/threads/mannlicher-sch%C3%B6nauer-prewar-m1900-m1903-m1905-m1908-m1910-m1924-m1925-or-high-velocity.47277/
@@ToadleyBrowne
I read through the link you posted..... and I could NOT find the "special Order Caliber" availability between "model" designations.... I could only find where it very clearly states the $15.00 charge is for the "Extra Long Barrel" on any particular Model/Caliber, but again NOT switched Calibers onto Models, and again, I will re-iterate my assertion that there was NO such thing as a Model "1908" Pre-War Mannlicher Schoenaur produced from the Steyr factory chambered in the 6.5X54.... which the 6.5X54 was a proprietary cartridge very strictly offered ONLY on the Model 1903..... and the 8X56 being also a proprietary Cartridge reserved strictly for the Model 1908 designation.
I would also assert that this is clearly supported by all available literature from the Pre-War period, as many Vintage Ammo's from various Manufacturers of the period who ALL identified 6.5X54 as "MS Model 1903" ammo, with WESTERN going as far as Identifying their 8X56 Ammo as for " Model 1908 Mannlicher Schoenaur ONLY".
In my opinion only, the MS Model 1908 Rifle in your Video...... has been re-chambered/Barrelled to accept the 6.5X54 MS Cartridge.
@@dirtlump You are right.
@@ToadleyBrowne That is my thread that you referenced, and you've misunderstood a bit.
The waters of MS nomenclature can be confusing and murky, especially as there were different model designations used by various catalogs (such as Stoeger) and metric cartridges were often listed differently from one reference to another.
Prototype and pre production Mannlicher Scoenauers were Model M1900, all leaving the Steyr factory chambered for the proprietary 6.5X54MS cartridge. When production began on the 'Greek Contract' Y1903 military MS in 1905 (also 6.5X54MS) Steyr began production of fine sporting MS in the same stutzen (full stocked carbine), half stocked rifle, and Take Down Models as had been some of the prototypes. These had svelte stocks with trapdoor cleaning rod storage, superb balance, and other available appointments. The new 6.5 mm Steyr sporting arm, M1903, would be joined the same year by a larger bore version, the M1905, chambered for a new 9X56 proprietary MS cartridge. This system of designating a model name unique to each chambering continued through models:
M1903 (also M1900, Y1903 and variants) - 6.5X54
M1905 - 9X56
M1908 - 8X56
M1910 - 9.5X57 (.375 Nitro Express Rimless)
M1924 - 'U.S. 1906 Cartridge' (.30-'06)
It was after the M1924 'Sequoia' that other chamberings of the MS were no longer assigned specific model numbers. The M1924 had been engineered with a longer receiver and magazine to accept the .30-'06 as well as adopting a 'guide ring' in the magazine which allowed for more flexibility in cartridge selection. MS built _on the new receiver_ after the M1924 and prior to WW2 were not stamped with model numbers at all, they were merely marked with their 'Kaliber' in metric terms. Modern collectors refer to them as 'M1925' though they bear no such marking.
The 1939 Stoeger is rather misleading in that regard as they list all of the MS proprietary chamberings as 'Carbine' along with a .30-'06, then another '30-'06 and the 7X57, 7X64, 8X60, 9.3X62, and 10.75X68 are all listed as 'High Velocity Rifle', a designation not used by Steyr.
In actual fact, anyone ordering a Mannlicher Schoenauer chambered in 8X56 during the prewar period regardless of stock configuration, triggers, length, got an M1908. All 6.5X54 were marked 'M1903' on their receiver, and likewise all M1905 were 9X56, all 9.5X57 were M1910.
The chamberings listed as 'High Velocity' in the '39 Stoeger could all be ordered as stutzen though they _would_ have the longer 'action' as had the M1924.
I would state categorically that the M1908 shown in video has had its barrel and magazine changed but for the single cardinal rule regarding Mannlicher Schoenauers which is that _there are few, if any, cardinal rules regarding the Mannlicher Schoenauer._
Strange things did happen at Steyr, particularly during the Anschluss, or German occupation of Austria, that began in 1938. It would be interesting to see proofs on the 6.5mm M1908.
From 1950 onward, model numbers again appeared on MS but with several chamberings available under same model number. Numbers changed to letters which designated stock configuration, again across several chamberings.
Simple, eh?
@@-oiiio-3993 Great information. Thank you for taking the time to post.
🧐
Great name for your page. You should add the adjective, "sagging" as they are lumps of coal. Thanks for watching.
@@ToadleyBrowne whatever I do I would really like it to trigger the communists. And aren't you up early ☺️.
Served the Hellenic army from the second Balkan war to the ww2 straight and accurate rifle in the hand's of hellins soldiers
Stutzen (full stocked carbine) sporting arm in video was M1903 sporting arm.
Greek Contract military Mannlicher Schoenauers were models Y1903, Y1903/14, Y1903/14/27, 'System 1930' and variants.
They were essentially the same as the sporting MS, of the same high quality and accuracy, dressed in military form.