Thanks Guys!!! The rifle of our fore-fathers here in Greece. My granddad fought with this rifle in 5 wars!! An important part of history and a beautiful rifle!!
can you look into the future? if yes great your option is amazing, if not please be quiet, its easy to say such things after they happend, or do your rally think the greeks thought there would be a war after a war and so on
Μπράβο Βαλάντη, ωραία δουλειά, μ' άρεσε η επιλογή των τραγουδιών, το φιλοβασιλικό "του αετού ο γιός" για τους Βαλκανικούς και το Βενιζελικό "της αμύνης τα παιδιά" για τον Α' ΠΠ. Κάτι τέτοια ανεβάζουν την εκτίμησή μου
A gold Franc was exactly .2903g of fine gold so 79 was 22.934g = 0.737 troy ounces so it was worth $15.26 in 1905. That much gold is worth $951.17 today but $15.26 in 1905 dollars is only worth $375.80 today because gold has increased more in value more than other things, if that makes sense.
The U.S. twenty dollar gold coins of .900 gold weighed 1.0751 ounce with a net yield of .9675 troy ounce fine gold. Per nma.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/historic_gold_prices_1833_pres.pdf , the average price of gold in 1905 was $18.92 USD per troy ounce.
@@wlewisiii No but I can decorate my room with it. I have gold art hung up on the walls and it is quite beautiful in the light. I'd love to get more of it if the price wasn't so high at the moment.
I don't get all these sleep comments. It's a European gun, so of course the video goes up at the perfect moment for us Euros to watch it on company time.
As a history nerd, I'd say this show does a pretty good job of mentioning the important parts of certain events without getting lost in 3 hours of background like is so easily possible. Not that I'd mind that, I just would have to quit my job and everything else to devote my time to watching youtube to keep up.
I got a sporterized greek Mannlicher Schoenauer with a stamp 1914 on the left side of the chamber from my grandfather. It was his first huntingrifle after the WWII. The rifle is still in a very good condition and i use it a lot. A friend of mine developed a custom made leadfree bullet for the rifle. After more the hundred years in use, it is still shoots 2-3cm groups on 100 meter. I just love it.
my grandmother's father fought the Turks and the Bulgarians with this gun,my grandfather fought the Italians and the Germans with this gun too,it is a part of our history
Just a small issue but, in the description you mention the book "Τα όπλα των Ηλλινων". The correct spelling should be "Τα όπλα των Ελλήνων". Thanks for the episode.
@@starman545 LOL. It's pronounced 'Tah opla ton Ellinon'. I can read it, but I don't understand too much anymore-Greek school as a child and I'm 64 now.
Re: price of 75 Gold Francs in today's money. Each Gold Franc was standardised at 0.0102408248 troy ounces gold content. Since France and most of the world was on the 'Gold Standard' at that time, all you have to do is multiply by 75 times (75 Gold Francs) at a Gold spot price of around $1288.52 (14th April 2017) which gives you a modern 'value' of about USD$988.12 per rifle (Give or take half a cent) at time of manufacture. Using an online USD inflation index calculator however, results in USD$150 (About 75 Gold Francs circa 1905) in as USD$4063.62 in 2016. Inflation calculator here: www.westegg.com/inflation/ Gold price calculator based on method outlined in this article: ask.metafilter.com/275442/Historical-Value-of-French-Franc-in-comparison-to-US-dollar
Simplified: A French 10 franc gold 'Rooster' of 1899 - 1914 contained .0933 ounce fine gold, slightly more than two U.S. gold dollars (.09675). The U.S. gold one dollar coins of 1849 - 1889 had .048375 ounce fine gold and their gold content was close to 'face value' at the U.S. Government official price of $20.67 per ounce. At contemporary 'melt value', one gold French Franc would be about twenty U.S. cents in the early Twentieth Century. Seventy nine Francs would have been about $15.80 USD. The U.S. Eagle ($10 gold) had .48375 ounce fine gold. The U.S. 'Double Eagle ($20 gold) contained .9675 ounce.
I completely concur with your opinion on the Mannlicher Schoauer. I don't have a 1903 but I do have a model 1952. It's mechanically identical down to the wonderful rotary magazine...with the addition of double set triggers...and all the surfaces are jeweled. Smooth and slick do not even begin to describe it.
Thank you so much for this fine historic vid of a greate gun. The hours of work put down here, thank you so much again,and thanks to Mae too, I could not NOT notice her entusiasm about this precious gun.
Thanks so much for the excellent review. It was very detailed and shared information I have not heard before. May's comments from the range were excellent. As a Greek American I know a fair amount about the MS 1903, it was a high quality and often overlooked firearm. One thing were I think the Greeks missed a bet-rather than have an overlong rifle and a shorter carbine, they should have commonized on a 24-25 inch barrel like the Springfield 03-A3 or the German Mauser from WW2 timeframe. The long MS 1902 rifle was bulky and awkward to use in the trenches and really didn't offer any more workable range than a medium length rifle and the latter could have served the needs of a carbine. Since gun-drilling of barrels was probably THE most costly part of the manufacture process, shorter barrels make a great deal of sense from a cost perspective. As for Phil-Phil, he was a firearms genius whose ideas got way-laid by circumstances. I can't believe his concepts didn't work well in the prototypes, sounds like the tests were 'fixed' to me. One final comment-I never understood why the Greeks accepted a straight out bolt handle like that, it would have been awkward to operate and the handle would have gotten caught on everything. Certainly not a 'mad minute' capable like the British Enfield. Thoughts?
I think it's interesting how the countries that adopted the advanced 6.5mm cartridges usually neglected to adopt spitzer bullets. I hope your ceiling is ok. The gun shop I used to work at had a low ceiling and we had a dent or two in our ceiling too.
The bottle nosed 6.5mm cartridges with extremely long bullets didn’t adapt at all well to spitzer designs. The guns need rebarrelling to remove the massive jump from the case mouth to the rifling. This ruins accuracy with spitzer bullets. The Italian Carcano has exactly this problem as well.
What an amazing channel. A true history lesson, thank you for your investing that much time into your episodes. It truly reflects. Now, I am Greek and looking everywhere to buy a 1903 Mannlincher, would you happen to know anyone who sells one? @C&Rsenal I would really like to bring back home one of these absolute beauties...
The recap was perfect. It prepared me to keep up with you in this very interesting journey through the development of personal firearms. Good work. Cartridge fountains . . . hehehe "1000 Quatloos says the humans are untrainable and must be destroyed!" Rare wisdom . . .
I swear you guys always do this to me..... turn over to go to sleep...... notification of new post...... it's midnight...... it's an hour long..... I have work in the morning...... but it's.... ok I can stay up another hour....
I picked up a 1903/14/27 a few years ago and love it! So I've been looking forward to this episode for a while. If only the Swedish 1896 had made it to war, since I slightly prefer that cartridge, but the 6.5MS is great to shoot!
Great review. My Dad brought home 4 long rifles and 1short rifle of these Greek M&S sorry to say he gave them away .Only 1 that was turn into a sorter. It was a great deer rifle.I was mad that he dident save me one.
Mannlicher-Shonauer commercial rifles and carbines are finest rifles ever built so I imagine the military ones are the best in their bracket ,the 6.5 x 54 cartridge is an awesome round that very few people know about.
I wish I could offer sound and specific sources/data for this, but my experience in dealing with French francs in the time-period in question is that the American dollar in 1905 was worth about five francs, give or take pennies. A gold franc was technically worth the same as any other franc, but obviously had the perk of being a gold coin and so superior for all transactions as it didn't need any provenance. In general, I think, one will find that the Franc was worth about 20 cents of the American dollar in most all applications, especially the purchasing power of gold. So in effect, your Greek rifle was about fifteen American Dollars in 1905. That seems a bit hefty for sure, since I have the impression that Uncle Sam was spending around five dollars American for a Springfield 1903. That said, I am working off memory but perhaps it is enough for you and your's to work off?
Simplified: A French 10 franc gold 'Rooster' of 1899 - 1914 contained .0933 ounce fine gold, slightly more than two U.S. gold dollars (.09675). The U.S. gold one dollar coins of 1849 - 1889 had .048375 ounce fine gold and their gold content was close to 'face value' at the U.S. Government official price of $20.67 per ounce. At contemporary 'melt value', one gold French Franc would be about twenty U.S. cents in the early Twentieth Century. Seventy nine Francs would have been about $15.80 USD. The U.S. Eagle ($10 gold) had .48375 ounce fine gold. The U.S. 'Double Eagle ($20 gold) contained .9675 ounce.
A great presentation, indeed. As can be inferred from many other comments, the Mannlicher-Schönauer is an important part of Greek martial history. One of my grandfathers used it for the first time to fight Bulgarians and Germans in 1918 during WWI, and he (and other relatives) used it many times after that. My only objection concerns the host’s remark about the comparison with Mannlicher-Carcano (around 31:00), which was easier to produce: it implies that, by choosing such a high-end rifle, Greece did actually forgo domestic production; but at the time Greece (and Romania, which is also mentioned) lacked the industrial capacity to produce any rifle, however complicated or not its design was. Even the Phillipides rifle would have been produced abroad (most probably at Steyr by OWG, only that, as Othais correctly observed, OWG was not interested in selling any rifle, but the Mannlicher-Schönauer specifically).
My favorite turn bolt. What was the price of a 1903 Mauser or M95 Mannlicher.? That is an apple to apple comparison. Indeed perhaps you could tabulate a contract price standardized on the gold franc for rifles you have already showcased. As it were, for the benefit of the Youtubavian Military Rifle Commission tasked with selecting a service rifle for the Kingdom of Youtubavia.
After all 3 your Mannlicher straight-pull episodes I just had to go buy a M95/30 at the gun show. After watching these last two episodes I'm convinced that Steyr has to be my favorite manufacturer from that time period and I have to find a Mannlicher-Schönauer now. I hope they aren't ungodly expensive now but I'm sure they are, unfortunately. I don't care though, I have to collect more of these Steyr rifles, I'm hooked!
So if one of these jams will putting Windex on it fix the issue? Joking aside, nice video. I've been looking forward to this video for a while because I picked up a Mannlicher Schönauer carbine and had no clue about any of its history. I still have no idea what the history behind my particular Mannlicher Schönauer is but at least I now know about the rifle's general history. Thank you for all your hard work, looking forward to the next episode.
Hi, Great triple-Phill; of the Greek Manlickers! . Good work on the complicated Greek history and Politics. Never seen that cool rotary mag before. Thanks.
Really like your videos. It's good to see the rifles from the pre/ during smokeless powder stage as everybody knows about Mauser 98, Enfield no 4, k31 etc I do think May needs to shoot them at a slightly longer range to really see what they capabilities in accuracy are... but please keep doing what you are doing.
I'm a huge fan of WW1, with the military technology, the scope of the battles, and the rise and fall of world powers. I also used to play a WW1 Role Play game on Gary's Mod, and rose through the ranks to command the Central Powers forces, as well as managing the whole game server. I was always trying to get the game developers to create more authentic arms and player models. (I was so triggered when the German Empire was armed with the Kar98K, with the incorrect bolt handle and sights.) I always directed the developers to watch this video series, as well as "The Great War" and "Forgotten Weapons", to understand what was expected in the arms and uniform designs. My all time favorite is still the M95 Mannlicher, since I usually played as an Austro-Hungarian infantry officer, or the Kar88 when I played as an artillery officer. One thing I love about alot of these old rifles is the colors and grain patterns in the wooden stocks. That's one thing that will never be a discussion in 100 years when talking about AKs, ARs, etc.
Love them , I have the Greek 03-14-27 MANNLICHER Schonauer in 6.5 x54 and also the Model 1952 Austrian MANNLICHER Schonauer in Winchester.270 , both are in excellent condition ! PS. Thanks for the video 👍
I have my Grandfather's M1910 Take Down Model. You'd enjoy this 'site if you don't already know it: forums.nitroexpress.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=mannlicher
As for why ÖWG was able/allowed to produce carbines for the 1930 Greek contract (0:48:15), in spite of Versailles restrictions, I suspect that this was because carbines were not seen as prime military weapons, but something of a paramilitary/police weapon. Note that post-WWI Germany also fiddled around with labels as to what was carbines and what was rifles to skirt some of the restrictions imposed at Versailles.
Great video! The choice of the greek songs was very good also. Just a small correction regarding the description: the book's name should be "Τα Όπλα των Ελλήνων"
Othais- was all the ammo the 156gr PPU semi spitzer softpoints? (It looked it). They hang up a bit in my 1903/14/27 as well. Supposedly a real round nose hits the feed ramp better and feeds nicer, but I have not tested that yet. Wondered if you guys had.
This is quite an oddball of a rifle in terms of ww1 rifles. Its pretty cool. I can see this as a great trench sniper being very effective especially with the 6.5mm with a long barrel. Like the type 38 im thinking there would be minimal if any muzzle flash.
The Clip is an original Hirtenberg, GR clips are more similar to Mauser Clips. In fact exactly with the Hirtenberg clips are the "dum-dum", ammo which were presented by "Carnegie Examination" in 1914, with photo etc. , about 2nd Balkan war in the summer of 1913. This is the best way to explain the character of the Greek soldiers & officers and their "human" way of fighting.
Another great episode. My only complaint about the series is that the episodes are too far apart; "We covered that in the last episode" means I have to go back to refresh my short-term memory. Maybe I should wait until you're finished, and binge watch... Thank you for the great content.
Just won a 1903-14 carbine on GB, Mae's favorite. Supposedly chambered in 7x57, I'll find out when it arrives. Bore looks pretty good. Co-incidently, my FFL buddy has a Breda 1927 sporter for sale. It's nicely done, full stock, scoped with a nice 1.5-4 Leupold, left side mounted safety. It appears to be chambered in 7x57 though is not marked as such, at least it will chamber that round.
Hey does anybody know where I can get a original Hotchkiss feed strip in 30-06 or 303 Britt? Or simply the feed strips themselves? If anybody could point me in the right direction website wise it would be greatly appreciated.
A couple of questions: 1) Why did they have to invent another cartridge, why couldn't they just use the same 6.5x55 Swede? 2) Why did they use the round-nosed bullet from the start, weren't by 1903/1904 spitzer bullets already invented?
The only complain I have ever heard about the Mannlicher-Schonauer had to do with the cartridge lethality. Greek soldiers nicknamed the 6.5 the philanthropic cartridge because sometimes would pierce through an enemy soldier without actually killing him. Otherwise most noted it was excellent when it came to ballistics and barrier penetration
The MS in 6.54 was a noted African big game cartridge. It has tremendous sectional density because it uses a rounded rather than a Spitzer projectile. It was used to take down Lions and Cape Buffalo in Africa. If you hit an enemy soldier with one of these you'll do plenty of damage to him, trust me. I'm Greek descent and I never heard the term 'philanthropic cartridge'.
Othias, I have a Breda made 1903/14 action (which is to be made up into a deer rifle) and yes it has on the crest the marking "1903/14" but is marked "Breda 1927" on the side of the receiver. Perhaps that was on the full size rifle rather than the carbine? No, I didn't cut up a rifle to get the action - I just bought it that way.
2024: I currently have four (4) of the Y1903 family. One is a non-fiddled rifle, the other three are questionable they may have been carbines, but all are short versions now. I know one had been cut prior to my possession. Of the three short arms, two have had barrels so worn the bullets I tested would not seriously engage the rifling, resulting in tumbling rounds from lack of stabilization. I have had one barrel replaced and am considering the other. Hopefully, the third 'fiddled' one will be intact enough. Note, the fiddling seems to be well considered, well executed and finished. Not reminiscent of monkeys and dull spoons. A couple of them are Breda made. Over all, I find them delightful. The cartridge is quite sufficient for North American game. Whereas I would prefer a larger caliber for dangerous bears, frankly I have no reason to challenge a bear. I am delighted you approve of this action and construction.
According to wikipedia in 1912 one franc based on the gold standard was valued 0,81 M (Goldmark of the german empire). And one Goldmark from 1900-1912 translates to roughly 5.17€. Now I just tried to google this and I'm not sure if french franc based on gold standard is the same as gold franc. Furthermore I dont know how good wikipedia is at this so take this statement with a big grain of salt :x
Simplified: A French 10 franc gold 'Rooster' of 1899 - 1914 contained .0933 ounce fine gold, slightly more than two U.S. gold dollars (.09675). The U.S. gold one dollar coins of 1849 - 1889 had .048375 ounce fine gold and their gold content was close to 'face value' at the U.S. Government official price of $20.67 per ounce. At contemporary 'melt value', one gold French Franc would be about twenty U.S. cents in the early Twentieth Century. Seventy nine Francs would have been about $15.80 USD. The U.S. Eagle ($10 gold) had .48375 ounce fine gold. The U.S. 'Double Eagle ($20 gold) contained .9675 ounce.
I wonder why I have seen 03/14 's partly blued and parts with grey paint. Sometimes the split breech, the trigger guard, even the barrel. Was the grey requested by a certain country? Can't find any reference anywhere, keeps me up nights...
"Would you take it into battle in WWI?"
*Mae clutches rifle protectively*
"NO, absolutely not. Not my baby." *hisss*
Brent Keller my precious...
Thanks Guys!!! The rifle of our fore-fathers here in Greece. My granddad fought with this rifle in 5 wars!! An important part of history and a beautiful rifle!!
5 wars? Your granddad was a busy man.
1st Balkan, 2nd Balkan, WW1, Greco-Turkish War, WW2... our granddads did not have a choice...
America is always open. . .
can you look into the future? if yes great your option is amazing, if not please be quiet, its easy to say such things after they happend, or do your rally think the greeks thought there would be a war after a war and so on
Μπράβο Βαλάντη, ωραία δουλειά, μ' άρεσε η επιλογή των τραγουδιών, το φιλοβασιλικό "του αετού ο γιός" για τους Βαλκανικούς και το Βενιζελικό "της αμύνης τα παιδιά" για τον Α' ΠΠ. Κάτι τέτοια ανεβάζουν την εκτίμησή μου
A gold Franc was exactly .2903g of fine gold so 79 was 22.934g = 0.737 troy ounces so it was worth $15.26 in 1905. That much gold is worth $951.17 today but $15.26 in 1905 dollars is only worth $375.80 today because gold has increased more in value more than other things, if that makes sense.
The U.S. twenty dollar gold coins of .900 gold weighed 1.0751 ounce with a net yield of .9675 troy ounce fine gold.
Per nma.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/historic_gold_prices_1833_pres.pdf , the average price of gold in 1905 was $18.92 USD per troy ounce.
Gold is especially valuable in these troubled times now.
@@Edax_Royeaux Gold is especially overpriced because people mistake scarcity for inherent value. In the end, you can't eat gold.
@@wlewisiii No but I can decorate my room with it. I have gold art hung up on the walls and it is quite beautiful in the light. I'd love to get more of it if the price wasn't so high at the moment.
@@wlewisiii You can't eat a dollar bill either.
I'm a simple man, whenever I see '1903 Mannlicher-Schönauer' in the description I instantly press 'add to favourites'. Awesome work as always!
I don't get all these sleep comments. It's a European gun, so of course the video goes up at the perfect moment for us Euros to watch it on company time.
Boss makes a dollar,
I make a dime,
That's why I poop
on company time.
@@littlegrabbiZZ9PZA Ein mark vs. 10 pfennig, ja?
As a history nerd, I'd say this show does a pretty good job of mentioning the important parts of certain events without getting lost in 3 hours of background like is so easily possible. Not that I'd mind that, I just would have to quit my job and everything else to devote my time to watching youtube to keep up.
When I see you shoot The full powered rifle the why The recoil moves your shoulder move back makes my shoulder hurt. you must really love the Old guns
Hi, I did recently quit my job and still have a hard time keeping up with the C&Rsenal!
"It has everything I need from a long rifle: a short rifle!"
I got a sporterized greek Mannlicher Schoenauer with a stamp 1914 on the left side of the chamber from my grandfather. It was his first huntingrifle after the WWII. The rifle is still in a very good condition and i use it a lot. A friend of mine developed a custom made leadfree bullet for the rifle. After more the hundred years in use, it is still shoots 2-3cm groups on 100 meter. I just love it.
That is a Model Y1903 / 14.
@@-oiiio-3993 what ist the Y stand for?
@@AustrianJager I do not speak Greek, but thy 'Y' on 'Greek Contract' MS is for 'Model' or 'Type', as the sporting MS were M1903, M1905... .
my grandmother's father fought the Turks and the Bulgarians with this gun,my grandfather fought the Italians and the Germans with this gun too,it is a part of our history
@@Steve1766 wrong
@@Steve1766 Germanics not Germans
@@Steve1766 i know,we had 88s too for anti aircraft use
@@Steve1766 US speaks english and borders with the british dominion of Canada.
So according to your logic US are british!?
Greetings from Austria
@@philp8872 lmao this was 1 year ago
This one was excellant. Worth the brain freeze for sure
Just a small issue but, in the description you mention the book "Τα όπλα των Ηλλινων". The correct spelling should be "Τα όπλα των Ελλήνων". Thanks for the episode.
Got it
Its all Greek to me. xD
Athanasios Kountouras this just looks like UwU speak to me
@@starman545 LOL. It's pronounced 'Tah opla ton Ellinon'. I can read it, but I don't understand too much anymore-Greek school as a child and I'm 64 now.
@@Candrsenal misspeled ,?
ΦΙΛΕ ΕΚΑΝΕΣ ΘΑΥΜΑΣΙΑ ΔΟΥΛΕΙΑ...ΣΕ ΕΥΧΑΡΙΣΤΟΥΜΕ....ΝΑ ΕΙΣΑΙ ΠΑΝΤΑ ΚΑΛΑ....
stergios stergiou Ξερεις οτι δεν μιλαει Ελληνικα,ε;
Κακώς, να μάθει! :P
Re: price of 75 Gold Francs in today's money. Each Gold Franc was standardised at 0.0102408248 troy ounces gold content. Since France and most of the world was on the 'Gold Standard' at that time, all you have to do is multiply by 75 times (75 Gold Francs) at a Gold spot price of around $1288.52 (14th April 2017) which gives you a modern 'value' of about USD$988.12 per rifle (Give or take half a cent) at time of manufacture.
Using an online USD inflation index calculator however, results in USD$150 (About 75 Gold Francs circa 1905) in as USD$4063.62 in 2016.
Inflation calculator here: www.westegg.com/inflation/
Gold price calculator based on method outlined in this article: ask.metafilter.com/275442/Historical-Value-of-French-Franc-in-comparison-to-US-dollar
Wasnt the United States on the gold standard at that time also tho so would that change the inflation
Uhm what about the 0.0102etc of gold context? Where is that in the equation?
Simplified:
A French 10 franc gold 'Rooster' of 1899 - 1914 contained .0933 ounce fine gold, slightly more than two U.S. gold dollars (.09675).
The U.S. gold one dollar coins of 1849 - 1889 had .048375 ounce fine gold and their gold content was close to 'face value' at the U.S. Government official price of $20.67 per ounce.
At contemporary 'melt value', one gold French Franc would be about twenty U.S. cents in the early Twentieth Century. Seventy nine Francs would have been about $15.80 USD.
The U.S. Eagle ($10 gold) had .48375 ounce fine gold.
The U.S. 'Double Eagle ($20 gold) contained .9675 ounce.
The episodes just get better and better thanks for all your hard work!
NP and thanks for watching!
I completely concur with your opinion on the Mannlicher Schoauer. I don't have a 1903 but I do have a model 1952. It's mechanically identical down to the wonderful rotary magazine...with the addition of double set triggers...and all the surfaces are jeweled. Smooth and slick do not even begin to describe it.
Yeah, you and others who've experienced them know I wasn't exaggerating with that butter reference.
@@maewinchester2030 My M1910 (9.5X57) Takedown Model agrees with you!
Can I get "I can't believe it's not butter" with the Schönauer back ground t shirt
Zachary jordan oh that is good.
"Nein weg Joseph"!!!! You just make 'em up as you go along don't you Othias? Priceless!!!!
You are both very fortunate to have each other!
Thank you so much for this fine historic vid of a greate gun. The hours of work put down here, thank you so much again,and thanks to Mae too, I could not NOT notice her entusiasm about this precious gun.
No enthusiasm whatsoever.
haha, and the shooting this time, a nicer and thighter group,impressive... happy easter!
Thanks, and Happy Easter to you as well!
Thanks so much for the excellent review. It was very detailed and shared information I have not heard before. May's comments from the range were excellent. As a Greek American I know a fair amount about the MS 1903, it was a high quality and often overlooked firearm. One thing were I think the Greeks missed a bet-rather than have an overlong rifle and a shorter carbine, they should have commonized on a 24-25 inch barrel like the Springfield 03-A3 or the German Mauser from WW2 timeframe. The long MS 1902 rifle was bulky and awkward to use in the trenches and really didn't offer any more workable range than a medium length rifle and the latter could have served the needs of a carbine. Since gun-drilling of barrels was probably THE most costly part of the manufacture process, shorter barrels make a great deal of sense from a cost perspective. As for Phil-Phil, he was a firearms genius whose ideas got way-laid by circumstances. I can't believe his concepts didn't work well in the prototypes, sounds like the tests were 'fixed' to me. One final comment-I never understood why the Greeks accepted a straight out bolt handle like that, it would have been awkward to operate and the handle would have gotten caught on everything. Certainly not a 'mad minute' capable like the British Enfield. Thoughts?
And just when I thought, gee another gewehr88 knock-off, you guys just keep coming up with the goodies. Great shooting Mae
Drago Puskaric thanks, I try :)
really nice review man , thanks for keeping it authentic . music and all
Just became a patron; what a nice reward.
Thanks for the help!
farmerboy916 Welcome to the religion.
C&Rsenal Well, have to do something to support the best channels around with this ad shit going on
I think it's interesting how the countries that adopted the advanced 6.5mm cartridges usually neglected to adopt spitzer bullets.
I hope your ceiling is ok. The gun shop I used to work at had a low ceiling and we had a dent or two in our ceiling too.
The bottle nosed 6.5mm cartridges with extremely long bullets didn’t adapt at all well to spitzer designs.
The guns need rebarrelling to remove the massive jump from the case mouth to the rifling. This ruins accuracy with spitzer bullets. The Italian Carcano has exactly this problem as well.
What an amazing channel. A true history lesson, thank you for your investing that much time into your episodes. It truly reflects. Now, I am Greek and looking everywhere to buy a 1903 Mannlincher, would you happen to know anyone who sells one? @C&Rsenal I would really like to bring back home one of these absolute beauties...
This was a great episode, great work Thanks for sharing
Man, I need to buy one of these guys. I am in love.
I had no idea something like this existed. Thank you for sharing.
The recap was perfect. It prepared me to keep up with you in this very interesting journey through the development of personal firearms. Good work.
Cartridge fountains . . . hehehe
"1000 Quatloos says the humans are untrainable and must be destroyed!"
Rare wisdom . . .
I really appreciate it, thanks alot for giving us this wonderful content and giving me something to enjoy during my lunch break!
I gotta say, I love those little War Were Declared bits. They always make me laugh.
Thank you guys for the fantastic video on the most iconic rifle of the greek army ,you are awesome
I don't know much about firearms but from watching several dozen of these videos i can conclude that carbines = always better
There were some out there obviously but it’s odd picturing a “Mannlicher” without the usual en bloc clip magazine. The rotary mag is so cool!
The 'En Bloc' was Ferdinand von Mannlicher's patent and was originally known / marketed as the Mannlicher Packet Loading System.
I swear you guys always do this to me..... turn over to go to sleep...... notification of new post...... it's midnight...... it's an hour long..... I have work in the morning...... but it's.... ok I can stay up another hour....
I picked up a 1903/14/27 a few years ago and love it! So I've been looking forward to this episode for a while. If only the Swedish 1896 had made it to war, since I slightly prefer that cartridge, but the 6.5MS is great to shoot!
Great review. My Dad brought home 4 long rifles and 1short rifle of these Greek M&S sorry to say he gave them away .Only 1 that was turn into a sorter. It was a great deer rifle.I was mad that he dident save me one.
Dang, that sucks.
"No language I can't ruin." I mean you did manage to mispronounce 'Lithgow' in the SMLE episode
PPK418 i pronounce it Lith-gow (like cow)
I高恩太 it's pronounced Lith-go like crow, window, narrow etc
To be fair you aussies pronounced shit weird.
@@MaxwellAerialPhotography Lithgow is Scottish…
The lithgow small arms factory is in a Australia.
great upload guys. thanks
I would agree with Mae on taking all of the Mannlicher-Shönauer rifles into WW1. They are my favorite as well.
that rotary mag is so cool!
They perform flawlessly when fed with proper fitting cartridges.
Mannlicher-Shonauer commercial rifles and carbines are finest rifles ever built so I imagine the military ones are the best in their bracket ,the 6.5 x 54 cartridge is an awesome round that very few people know about.
Loved the video. You 2 look like you are having a lot of fun doing this and your research is great. :-)
I always look forward to new episodes
front band and foresight reminds me of a carcano great video guys
Another fantastic video.Well done.
I wish I could offer sound and specific sources/data for this, but my experience in dealing with French francs in the time-period in question is that the American dollar in 1905 was worth about five francs, give or take pennies. A gold franc was technically worth the same as any other franc, but obviously had the perk of being a gold coin and so superior for all transactions as it didn't need any provenance. In general, I think, one will find that the Franc was worth about 20 cents of the American dollar in most all applications, especially the purchasing power of gold. So in effect, your Greek rifle was about fifteen American Dollars in 1905.
That seems a bit hefty for sure, since I have the impression that Uncle Sam was spending around five dollars American for a Springfield 1903. That said, I am working off memory but perhaps it is enough for you and your's to work off?
Thank you, there is a whole debate brewing in another comment tree already! We'll see how it settles down.
thank you!
Simplified:
A French 10 franc gold 'Rooster' of 1899 - 1914 contained .0933 ounce fine gold, slightly more than two U.S. gold dollars (.09675).
The U.S. gold one dollar coins of 1849 - 1889 had .048375 ounce fine gold and their gold content was close to 'face value' at the U.S. Government official price of $20.67 per ounce.
At contemporary 'melt value', one gold French Franc would be about twenty U.S. cents in the early Twentieth Century. Seventy nine Francs would have been about $15.80 USD.
The U.S. Eagle ($10 gold) had .48375 ounce fine gold.
The U.S. 'Double Eagle ($20 gold) contained .9675 ounce.
Πολύ καλή παρουσίαση μπράβο στην εκπομπή σας,Δόξα και τιμή στα όπλα και στον Ελληνικό Στρατό
A great presentation, indeed. As can be inferred from many other comments, the Mannlicher-Schönauer is an important part of Greek martial history. One of my grandfathers used it for the first time to fight Bulgarians and Germans in 1918 during WWI, and he (and other relatives) used it many times after that. My only objection concerns the host’s remark about the comparison with Mannlicher-Carcano (around 31:00), which was easier to produce: it implies that, by choosing such a high-end rifle, Greece did actually forgo domestic production; but at the time Greece (and Romania, which is also mentioned) lacked the industrial capacity to produce any rifle, however complicated or not its design was. Even the Phillipides rifle would have been produced abroad (most probably at Steyr by OWG, only that, as Othais correctly observed, OWG was not interested in selling any rifle, but the Mannlicher-Schönauer specifically).
My favorite turn bolt. What was the price of a 1903 Mauser or M95 Mannlicher.? That is an apple to apple comparison. Indeed perhaps you could tabulate a contract price standardized on the gold franc for rifles you have already showcased. As it were, for the benefit of the Youtubavian Military Rifle Commission tasked with selecting a service rifle for the Kingdom of Youtubavia.
We prefer to be referred to as Elbonians, sir!
Great another gun I need to add to my list of future collection... This is getting expensive ... Love the videos keep it up
When Mae is working that bolt on that first rifle it looks pretty rubbery definitely reminds me of a Mosin
Amazing job guys! Both technically and historically
That rotary magazine design is pretty slick.
Indeed.
They are incredibly smooth and infinitely reliable.
I have my Grandfather's M1910 (9.5X57) Take Down Model.
This is a Great Channel!!! I Like!!!
nice videos guys, i am always amazed how much effort you put in your content
Thank you!
I love your channel and am developing an serious affection for Mae, the funeral dirge at the beginning is just depressing.
well here's another episode to rewatch 9 times :)
Only 9?
Your right! 13!
After all 3 your Mannlicher straight-pull episodes I just had to go buy a M95/30 at the gun show. After watching these last two episodes I'm convinced that Steyr has to be my favorite manufacturer from that time period and I have to find a Mannlicher-Schönauer now. I hope they aren't ungodly expensive now but I'm sure they are, unfortunately. I don't care though, I have to collect more of these Steyr rifles, I'm hooked!
I'm sorry about your wallet.
Have you found your MS?
I like the short one also!
So if one of these jams will putting Windex on it fix the issue?
Joking aside, nice video. I've been looking forward to this video for a while because I picked up a Mannlicher Schönauer carbine and had no clue about any of its history. I still have no idea what the history behind my particular Mannlicher Schönauer is but at least I now know about the rifle's general history. Thank you for all your hard work, looking forward to the next episode.
Hi, Great triple-Phill; of the Greek Manlickers! . Good work on the complicated Greek history and Politics. Never seen that cool rotary mag before. Thanks.
another 1 hour 5.40.well spent Thanks.
You crazy kids, staying up late to watch our little ole episodes.
"They didn't want to spend much money because they didn't have much."
Some things just don't change...
They actually have a very big army compared to their economy
Marius Dragoe Thus explaining part of their financial issues. Well at least at that time.
Well, we haven't got a choice, we're living in a very difficult neighbourhood, neighbouring an unpredictable and unstable larger neighbour
twitter.com/TRPolMemes/status/712052635533115392
Heroes fight like Greeks..... Winston Churchill
Really like your videos. It's good to see the rifles from the pre/ during smokeless powder stage as everybody knows about Mauser 98, Enfield no 4, k31 etc I do think May needs to shoot them at a slightly longer range to really see what they capabilities in accuracy are... but please keep doing what you are doing.
I just knew Mae was going to love that carbine!
Jim S It was pretty dope.
@@maewinchester2030 Try the commercial version someday (M1903 Mannlicher Schoenauer).
You'll want one.
I'm a huge fan of WW1, with the military technology, the scope of the battles, and the rise and fall of world powers. I also used to play a WW1 Role Play game on Gary's Mod, and rose through the ranks to command the Central Powers forces, as well as managing the whole game server. I was always trying to get the game developers to create more authentic arms and player models. (I was so triggered when the German Empire was armed with the Kar98K, with the incorrect bolt handle and sights.) I always directed the developers to watch this video series, as well as "The Great War" and "Forgotten Weapons", to understand what was expected in the arms and uniform designs. My all time favorite is still the M95 Mannlicher, since I usually played as an Austro-Hungarian infantry officer, or the Kar88 when I played as an artillery officer. One thing I love about alot of these old rifles is the colors and grain patterns in the wooden stocks. That's one thing that will never be a discussion in 100 years when talking about AKs, ARs, etc.
That rifle is gorgeous
Love them , I have the Greek 03-14-27 MANNLICHER Schonauer in 6.5 x54 and also the Model 1952 Austrian MANNLICHER Schonauer in Winchester.270 , both are in excellent condition ! PS. Thanks for the video 👍
I have my Grandfather's M1910 Take Down Model.
You'd enjoy this 'site if you don't already know it:
forums.nitroexpress.com/postlist.php?Cat=0&Board=mannlicher
As for why ÖWG was able/allowed to produce carbines for the 1930 Greek contract (0:48:15), in spite of Versailles restrictions, I suspect that this was because carbines were not seen as prime military weapons, but something of a paramilitary/police weapon. Note that post-WWI Germany also fiddled around with labels as to what was carbines and what was rifles to skirt some of the restrictions imposed at Versailles.
I have this rifle and trying to find some information for ages, luckily Forgotten Weapons helped me to see this video. Thanks to you both, cheers.
Great video! The choice of the greek songs was very good also. Just a small correction regarding the description: the book's name should be "Τα Όπλα των Ελλήνων"
A great video you guys. Now I know what to look for when I come across these rifles.
Glad to spread the knowledge.
Love your last name. Winchester. Any relation?
Stew Knoles Nope just a name.
Mae Winchester ok. It was a shot in the dark. You and Othias keep making those great videos.
Stew Knoles Can and will do :)
13:24 "Perfect! Works every time."
i was going to go to bed at a reasonable time, get up early and be productive. I guess that can wait.
Othais- was all the ammo the 156gr PPU semi spitzer softpoints? (It looked it). They hang up a bit in my 1903/14/27 as well. Supposedly a real round nose hits the feed ramp better and feeds nicer, but I have not tested that yet. Wondered if you guys had.
I have some original ammo and could try the feed in the 1903. But honestly didn't have trouble outside of it.
This is quite an oddball of a rifle in terms of ww1 rifles. Its pretty cool. I can see this as a great trench sniper being very effective especially with the 6.5mm with a long barrel. Like the type 38 im thinking there would be minimal if any muzzle flash.
The Clip is an original Hirtenberg, GR clips are more similar to Mauser Clips. In fact exactly with the Hirtenberg clips are the "dum-dum", ammo which were presented by "Carnegie Examination" in 1914, with photo etc. , about 2nd Balkan war in the summer of 1913. This is the best way to explain the character of the Greek soldiers & officers and their "human" way of fighting.
funded. keep up the great work 👍
Thank you
Thank you
Wow. You just get better and better, Mae. What a group!
William Cox Thanks! Lots of practice with tiny sights will do that. :)
Another great episode. My only complaint about the series is that the episodes are too far apart; "We covered that in the last episode" means I have to go back to refresh my short-term memory.
Maybe I should wait until you're finished, and binge watch...
Thank you for the great content.
I heard from a guy of Greek ancestry that the word "Gras" and "rifle" were interchangeable well into the 20th century esp. in the countryside..
100% true
In Turkey, every bolt-action gun is a ''Mavzer'', even this captured Lee-Enfield: ua-cam.com/video/3VQjo3MhgVw/v-deo.html
Συγκινήθηκα ρε φίλε
Those carbines have a sexy profile. Not too skinny, not too fat. Contoured well, just too straight of a grip for my tastes.
Othais, you mentioned that we'll see some more of those Austro-Hungarian gun requisitions at the beginning of WW1... Do I smell a 1912 Mauser?
Just here to show love for "Double Phil"
Just won a 1903-14 carbine on GB, Mae's favorite. Supposedly chambered in 7x57, I'll find out when it arrives. Bore looks pretty good.
Co-incidently, my FFL buddy has a Breda 1927 sporter for sale. It's nicely done, full stock, scoped with a nice 1.5-4 Leupold, left side mounted safety. It appears to be chambered in 7x57 though is not marked as such, at least it will chamber that round.
Hey does anybody know where I can get a original Hotchkiss feed strip in 30-06 or 303 Britt? Or simply the feed strips themselves? If anybody could point me in the right direction website wise it would be greatly appreciated.
Good stuff as always
Thanks!
A couple of questions:
1) Why did they have to invent another cartridge, why couldn't they just use the same 6.5x55 Swede?
2) Why did they use the round-nosed bullet from the start, weren't by 1903/1904 spitzer bullets already invented?
The only complain I have ever heard about the Mannlicher-Schonauer had to do with the cartridge lethality.
Greek soldiers nicknamed the 6.5 the philanthropic cartridge because sometimes would pierce through an enemy soldier without actually killing him.
Otherwise most noted it was excellent when it came to ballistics and barrier penetration
motorsportfangr the best sniper in the German army carried a mannlicher schonauer in 6.5x54 and his own ammo
The MS in 6.54 was a noted African big game cartridge. It has tremendous sectional density because it uses a rounded rather than a Spitzer projectile. It was used to take down Lions and Cape Buffalo in Africa. If you hit an enemy soldier with one of these you'll do plenty of damage to him, trust me. I'm Greek descent and I never heard the term 'philanthropic cartridge'.
I wouldn't care to be 'pierced through' by one.
Othias, I have a Breda made 1903/14 action (which is to be made up into a deer rifle) and yes it has on the crest the marking "1903/14" but is marked "Breda 1927" on the side of the receiver. Perhaps that was on the full size rifle rather than the carbine? No, I didn't cut up a rifle to get the action - I just bought it that way.
You should have a room tour.
Now I want a Gyro but Philly's doesnt open till noon. Thanks Big O!
Good video
2024: I currently have four (4) of the Y1903 family. One is a non-fiddled rifle, the other three are questionable they may have been carbines, but all are short versions now. I know one had been cut prior to my possession. Of the three short arms, two have had barrels so worn the bullets I tested would not seriously engage the rifling, resulting in tumbling rounds from lack of stabilization. I have had one barrel replaced and am considering the other. Hopefully, the third 'fiddled' one will be intact enough.
Note, the fiddling seems to be well considered, well executed and finished. Not reminiscent of monkeys and dull spoons.
A couple of them are Breda made.
Over all, I find them delightful.
The cartridge is quite sufficient for North American game. Whereas I would prefer a larger caliber for dangerous bears, frankly I have no reason to challenge a bear.
I am delighted you approve of this action and construction.
Just bought one that was missing the front sight post. Anyone happen to know if another might fit? Say a Dutch or Romanian 1895?
According to wikipedia in 1912 one franc based on the gold standard was valued 0,81 M (Goldmark of the german empire).
And one Goldmark from 1900-1912 translates to roughly 5.17€.
Now I just tried to google this and I'm not sure if french franc based on gold standard is the same as gold franc. Furthermore I dont know how good wikipedia is at this so take this statement with a big grain of salt :x
Simplified:
A French 10 franc gold 'Rooster' of 1899 - 1914 contained .0933 ounce fine gold, slightly more than two U.S. gold dollars (.09675).
The U.S. gold one dollar coins of 1849 - 1889 had .048375 ounce fine gold and their gold content was close to 'face value' at the U.S. Government official price of $20.67 per ounce.
At contemporary 'melt value', one gold French Franc would be about twenty U.S. cents in the early Twentieth Century. Seventy nine Francs would have been about $15.80 USD.
The U.S. Eagle ($10 gold) had .48375 ounce fine gold.
The U.S. 'Double Eagle ($20 gold) contained .9675 ounce.
I wonder why I have seen 03/14 's partly blued and parts with grey paint. Sometimes the split breech, the trigger guard, even the barrel. Was the grey requested by a certain country? Can't find any reference anywhere, keeps me up nights...