Mammal vs Dinosaur: A Question at the Heart of Kaimere | Three Year Special!
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- Опубліковано 16 лип 2024
- Mammal vs. Dinosaur. The conflict between megafauna of these two great clades defines the known world as an ecological arena. While dinosaurs tend to dominate at the largest sizes, each group has their advantages and regions of dominance as both predator and prey.
Songs of the Inland Sea is the sequel to Tales of Kaimere! It is a nautical anthology, with all six short stories and novellas taking place in aquatic settings. There are heists on a ship, a desperate chase through a marsh, and a survival story from the perspective of a killer whale!
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Music Credit: Wild Betrayal by Bonnie Grace from Epidemic Sounds.
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Cat fans in shambles when big cats don't automatically beat big birds
Yeah people need to realize that it’s fair to have interpretations of hypothetical interspecies interactions that may not align with their own.
I’ve seen some spec evo works that entirely favor predatory mammals over theropods and others that entirely favor theropods over predatory mammals, I think Keenan does a great job at striking a balance and giving both mammals and dinosaurs their due credit.
@@jasonberryman1035it's a joke bro 💀
@@alorianimz87 I was still agreeing that people take it too deep
It's not an accident that big cats are the dominant apex predator in every single ecosystem they occur in. But it's difficult to get around the size (dimensional not so much weight) advantage dinosaurs have due to pneumatized bones.
@@lepjagmannorth america would like a word with that notion
A war started ancient times and still does persist today.
Sauropsid vs. Synapsid
Archosaur vs. Theraspsid
Dinosaur vs. Mammal
We came out of the sea together, we are the only ones that can kill other
Emu vs. Human
@@dr.archaeopteryx5512 Emeu win
dam those pigons
??? vs bird?
I personally dont care who wins in a fight. I'm just glad all these incredible beasts live together and interact.
Earth: biotic interchanges are slow and gradual
Kaimere: HARVEST GO BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
Often I feel the outcome in any 'who would win in a fight" scenario between two animals would either be: " there would be no fight because one's totally outmatched", or " they could both kill each other equally easily".
Absolutely. Individual variation can have such a huge impact. If an animal is larger, it’s usually sweeping.
Your series sounds like an old caveman series but more realistic than those outdated movies/shows
This battle still on today, Eagles bullies every medium size mammal and terror birds fight against invasive cats and bears in Miocene.
Personally I am on team mammal, now my quail claims this is bias but if I am biased so is my lil dinosaur.
The bird may call me dense, but she is just full of air anyways.
every other person: Kaimere is a planet where mammals and dinosaurs fight each other for survival
me: *looks at all the funky megafauna on Kaishel and the Permian landmasses*, "hmmmm yeah im gonna see you kill each other over there..."
Dinosaurs and large mammals living together is one of my favorite ideas. I think you did a good job explaining how they vie for different niches, and give mammals the credit they deserve, mammals aren’t just gonna flop over because they have a slower reproduction rate.
Absolutely, especially since carnivorans and rodents are definitely making up for the general k-selection trend. Coyotes react to ecological stress by machine gunning pups into the thicket and rats pay child support with a massive spreadsheet
Birds: am i a joke to you?
Ah, the eternal conflict between the Mammalian and the Dinosaurian..... I don't think it will end.
Spectacular and Wonderful surprise.
Thank you.
Mec c’est les dinosaures qui gagne si ont se base sur la science actuellement
@@laseriedeladilophosaure9246 Malheureusement, il n'y a pas de mammifères aussi.... Adaptable?
Les Dinosaurs sont capables de se reproduire très rapidement. Et leur demande calorique est beaucoup moins que les mammifères...
I love the idea of new forms of symbiosis arising between dinosaurs and mammals. Like what if in order to defend against larfe theropods, probascidians hung out atound sauropods, and in return, they helped to guard their nests from smaller mammals, eventually coming to rely on each other against their respective threats.
Perhaps a different sort of manephant became titan shepherds.
What matters to me is that if the mammals can thrive and be able to co-exist with the dinosaurs that doesn't compromise their status to eventually decline into extinction, than that in of itself should be impressive and good enough.
This isn't about who's the strongest, biggest, fastest, or most badass, it's all about having the right adaptions to survive regardless who is top dog.
In depth ecological studies are always good fun, but so can a good old-fashioned versus matchup.
The world of kaimere is truly amazing 🌟
Thank you!
LLLLLEETSS GET RRREADY TO RUMBLLLLEEEEEE
As suscriptor number 6 or 7 of this channel I couldn't be happier to see this proyect thrive as it does, a great hug from Argentina keep up this project it is one of the things that gives my life a slice of happiness in such dark times.
Thank you so much!!
personally: in terms of general competion and adaptability... i'd put my moment on the dinosaurs.
From all the videos I have seen so far, I can come to a conclusion regarding the rivalry between dinosaurs and mammals in Kaimere:
In general, mammalian herbivores are more successful and dominant than mammalian carnivores, this is due to a lot of different reasons regarding each species, like how hippos became kings of the wetlands by the advantages they had over many herbivores, and it seems that competition between herbivorous dinosaurs and mammals is much more equalized (unless we are talking about sauropods)
Makes sense given what scientists know that dinosaurs would dominate at larger sizes.
Indeed! Figure on a level playing field they each bring good stuff to the table, but size is simply an overwhelming advantage of dinosaurs, so it makes sense to me they would dominate at the upper size niches.
11:48 “it maybe better to compare mammal and dinosaur of the similar mass, rather than linear dimension”
I thought you are going to bring up Titanomoropus Vs Kipourotitan lol
Mammal team here. I will be waiting for an episode on Kaimeran Multituberculate. The Leviathan looks so good.
Wow, time pass fast! There are already three fabulous years 😮
Oooo these Saturday episodes really help my kaimere addition
Happy 3 years on UA-cam. Also what you said about context matters? I agree, one example I have from my own project is the lack of big cats due to the presence of wyrms. While the cats might be better in a confrontation, wyrms are much more r selected which is why they dominate.
Makes a lot of sense! Animals fight and that's worth accounting for, but an overwhelming reproductive advantage is going to pay off in the long run. At the end of the day: survival of the fittest boils down to 'can you make babies and how well?'
I just hope both sides have fun ❤
I have been around your channel since year one not day one but I have watch your major clades of the known world congratulations on your channel and also I be reading your first book, tales of kaimere anthology of short stories and novellias
Very interesting topic, brings me flashbacks to a certain French Documentary 😅
Which one?
Huh that's neat to see another upload out of the norm and it's a very fascinating argument we often see. And yes the great American exchange is a often misused example sadly in many respects Also man it's really been three years
You know we always think of it being Sauropsid vs synapsid. We often forget there was a third group often called Anapsid/Parareptiles. I guess they just sit on the sidelines as their annoying neighbors duke it out akin to those poor neighbors that get inbetween family disputes. No idea how this aligns with their status on Kaimere
both loose because i show up and i beat them both
the MarkZuchoBerg TAKES what it wants
The rivalry between mammals and dinosaurs in Kaimere is always a spectacle. However, I find it more fascinating when they benefit from one another. On Earth today, birds have been know to benefit from mammals and vice versa: calling out for predators, oxpeckers removing parasites, and ravens forming bonds with wolves. Are there examples of both sides benefiting from the other?
Absolutely! First that comes to mind is the blue cockatrice and prairie hyena. Hyenas are stronger and have superior hearing and scent, cockatrice more agile and superior vision. Together they have a pretty firm hold on the person-sized predator niche. There's also lots of smaller niches where they cooperate. Plenty of mixed species herbivore herds, also primarily for their sensory benefits (the mammals often have superior scent, dinosaurs better daytime vision)
GG for the 3th anniversary keenan🦖🆚🐘
Thanks!!
@@TalesofKaimere no problem🗿🥂🗿
Happy 3rd birthday !!
Congrats Keenan! Can’t wait for the 5th year special
Me too!!
Mammals, reptiles, they're all fascinating fauna populating a fascinating world.
Happy three years on UA-cam🎉
Thank you!! 😁
Team mammal till the end
Saturday video idea: A review of Arvel and Ni'Khar and their biomes. As the project grows and more and more continents and biomes show up, it's getting hard to remember what's going on in the Known World. Apart from the big charismatic biomes like the Prairie and Seridic Wetlands, a lot just slip the mind. For example, when the Arvelith wetlands were brought up I barely remembered they exist. I think a rerun of the biomes and endemic species you've already drawn could help out. I dont believe the landmass drawings you posted on DA for What is Kaimere were used so those could be repurposed.
It would indeed be quite useful. The Köppen maps I did are kinda helpful, but a humid continental climate could include hills, swamps, open forest, and dense thicket.
I don’t ever recall a leopard mess around with a subadult lion I also don’t recall a wolverine attacking a moose
Both are things I remember from reading over the years but I couldn't find direct reference to cite for this episode. I could be misremembering specific taxa, but the general point I think remains valid. Even if a big leopard tom beat up a subadult lion one time (which I would bet good money has happened), that doesn't mean leopards reliably beat lions.
@@TalesofKaimere maybe but a leopard would have to be very cautious
Was a great episode, about such a iconic, popular and eternal forever topic on a thing which never have occured and will never happen one day, remaining for the entirety of its existence just pure speculation (even if in a face to face, in almost every issues, dinosaurs still tend to be favorized over mammals, for serious and less serious reasons all togethers).
But....
I was wondering this episode explain, speak about and show a little more how Cenozoic Mammals and Dinosaurs actually interacts everyday on Kaimere. Rather than about which of these 2 clades generally dominate the other one.
Because, as far how Kaimere is, until now, mammals and dinosaurs are always depicted to mostly live alongside each others and not really interacting a lot between them.
Like, yes, there is interactiosn between them, but from how the episodes play and show to us, in general Dinosaurs still interact mostly with others Dinosaurs and Mammals still interact mostly with others Mammals.
Like, most Dinosaurs seem to hunt others Dinosaurs and almost all Mammals seem to hunt only others Mammals.
With the Red Panther being the sole stricking exception and which hunt dinosaurs regulary instead on an occassional level.
If the Red Panther is able to successfully hunt dinosaurs up tomedium to young of large theropods or ornithopods, so most others big cats the same size than it should be able to do the same thing on a more, not regular, but higher level than the episodes seem to show us.
(for example, Thylacoleo should be able to hunt massively plenty of dinosaurs species of a such large size, given it was able to hunt adult Diprotodon on Earth and large sloths on kaimere thank to its efficient strong and cutting jaws).
In a world were both groups are almost equally present and diverse, with almost equal representatives in each size category (except the giant/arge category where there only around 10 giants mammals on the entire planet against hundred of sauropods and large theceslosaurs species), I think everyone would expect at least a little more than that.
With more medium or large mammals hunting and killing medium to large size dinosaurs, and/or having more win-win beneficial interactions between predatory mammals and dinosaurs.
But on that aspect we only have the Runnin Vulture ad Prairie Hyena, thus, plenty of others predatory mammals and predatory dinosaurs alliances shoudl also exist as well.
(ps : I discount here herbivores mammals and herbivores dinosaurs beneficial interactions between each others, because it just extremely easy for two species to merge to form one single mix herd, while alliances of differents predators species is more interesting and exciting to see given predators are usually depicted to be solely universaly each antagonistic toward each others.
While actually, most predators made alliances with others ones and even ones making alliances with preys species of animals.
Like one case were a giant spiders have a symbiosis with a small frog, one predator with one prey items species).
But as a whole, it was still a good episode noneless.
Dinosaurs can grow pretty large and a lot of them would whoop most mammals but I have to give us respect for diversity. While birds are quite neat, most nonavian dinosaurs tend to gravitate towards the usual bipedal or quadrupedal stance with some novel adaptations. I respect Spino and Theri for pushing their body plans to the extreme. Meanwhile, mammals produced several aquatic lineages, a hopping lineage, upright bipeds like us, their own flying lineage, etc. This is partly because dinosaurs couldn't rule the seas or the skies in their own time. They currently keep mammals from ruling the skies but we have a tight grip on the ocean. Mammalian dominance may also last longer than the dinosaur age given rats and shrews can survive basically any disaster.
At the end of my TED talk, just gonna ask: any cachalot vs motomazor art planned for the cachalot episode or was it not in the budget?
Absolutely. Getting large is a tremendous advantage in direct confrontation, and birds are a testament to the diversity of this clade, but mammals definitely have a tremendous amount of diversity and versatility.
Unfortunately it wasn't in the budget. I did do a bit of a growth series though which was a lot of fun!
Les mammifères son diversité mais on tendance a ne pas survivre de long période de temps quand il sont de grandes tailles les dinosaures sont plus grand plus résistant plus diversifie 40 000 espèce si on considère les dinosaures aviaire et non aviaire sertaine grandes espèce peuvent survivre 20 millions d'années même si leur écosystèmes change un peu se qui leur polyvalents contre 5 millions d'années max de suis pour les mammifères de grandes tailles les dinosaures se remettre plus vite d’une extinction car il ne faut pas oublié qu’il nous sont dominé un peu après extinction Crétacé- paleogène. Pour finir il est TRÈS PEU PROBABLE que nous dominant la planète autant de temps qu’eux
Dragon vs dinosaurs please 🥺❤️❤️❤️
Sorry if this is on a different comment but on a nicer note do you think you could make a video about mutualism or parasites, it be cool to see how the animals on kaimere work with each other in a healthy or non healthy way like how foxes fallow badgers for food or like how
crocodiles let little picker birds go into thar mouth to clean.thar teeth
,clown fish live in sea anemone to say safe,
plant symbiosis with pollinators,or with ticks using animals blood as food,
would also be cool to see. those are just some ideas i don't know if thare good or not but it's a idea, i think it would be cool to see this on kaimere if you like the idea.
Also sorry for the Grammer am trying to get better at it.
No worries! I got what you were saying.
I would certainly be open to it! At the moment I mostly do topics people pay to me to make, and these specials usually just reuse old art so I don't need to take as much time. However, eventually I hope to do more unsponsored episodes, and parasites are a topic I definitely want to cover.
@@TalesofKaimere thanks man love the world your making can't wait to see more of the world my favorite is the mammal like reptile island love your work.
Another great video to bless my morning
I used to love hypothetical VS stuff, but now as an adult seeing them makes me groan.
It’s helpful to me to consider how these interactions could influence this project, but I totally get why it can be annoying lol
the battle for second place
Great episode. Loved it a lot.
Thanks! Glad you enjoyed it!
I think this might be my favorite video of yours so far.
:D
Thank you!
The young carnosaur would also likely enter any conflict in better condition; a juvenile animal has never had to defend a territory or focus on mating or physically produce children all it has had to do is focus on day to day survival meanwhile a Hedgeback at its largest size may not necessarily be in prime condition, having to endure a lifetime of trials such as those listed and more such as parasites, disease, stints of starvation and perhaps even simply old age. The cards are always stacked against an adult animal that has to compete with a juvenile, this is why Tyrannosaurs of Earth and Monarchs of Kaimere have been so successful due to their niche partitioning as not only so they not compete with their parents they have a big energy advantage over interspecies competition.
That's a great point!
Happy anniversary of the channel, Keenan!
Thanks so much! Thanks for your support and conversation over the years!
If there was a Kem-Kem beds harvest, how would that go? What new life forms would evolve and take over/go extinct?
Since the planet was extremely arid right before the Tyrant Dynasty, I doubt it would change much about the project today. All those harvested creatures would likely be extinct as they were wetland specialists.
ok
Day 1: I made an whole fanon fauna in the interior ocean between Kairul's 2 peninsulae Part 1: -Ka'uk, an giant marine docodont -Pelican Gull, an relict pteranodontid -Terror Dolphin, an relict Squalodon -Gheldur, an marine sobekneterid -Dandolo, an marine dyrosaurid
Happy 3 Year UA-cam Anniversary to you.
Thank you!
I have a strong feeling that some type of culture of people on kaimere had the same idea and probably made something similar to the colosseum or others like it but i like to think the people on kaimere are better than that.
It has certainly happened from time to time.
What a fun video! I love all the detailed thought-out explanations you give! I did have one question about Kaimere: I know Kaimere is very Earth-like, but does that also apply to the oxygen concentration in the atmosphere? I know that Earth in the past used to have a much more oxygen-rich atmosphere than it does today at points, and at other points lower than Earth's. How does Kaimere's oxygen level compare to our own world's?
Thank you! At this point it was over a decade ago, but I did sort out things like planet size, density, gravity, and atmosphere composition was part of that. Like Earth, the oxygen content has varied. Off the top of my head I think the oxygen is slightly higher in Kaimere than on Earth today, but it's not a diagnostic part of the atmosphere. There have been times Earth was higher, and that influenced success and failure of animals harvested at that time.
Has there ever been an incursion from Kaimere to Earth that meaningfully threatened the secrecy of Kaimere?
There've probably been some close calls!
Thought experiment:
Would ornithischians outcompete megafaunal herbivore mammals if they had placental reproduction 🤔
I doubt it. Might be an advantage in wetlands (don't need to be as careful of nest placement) but I don't think eggs are enough of a detriment to make much of a difference. The quantity of juveniles was a pretty big advantage to the large ornithischian but I don't know how well it would stack against the fewer but better cared for strategy we see in most large mammals.
Les ornitopode peuvent être plus grand que les grands mammifères en moyenne se qui leur donne déjà un avantage
@@laseriedeladilophosaure9246
Oui
Has there ever been an instance where creatures from Kaimere somehow end up on Earth? Which maybe explain some sightings of cryptids?
Not wild, although the First Children worked a bit on Earth and escapees from their labs is why we have witches, vampires, etc
@@TalesofKaimere what about werewolves? BTW, you should do a video on diseases from Kaimere.
@@toonrex2806 Yes, shapeshifters are also from the First Children labs. If I got a sponsor it's a topic I'd love to discuss!
I'm am always enamored by competition in nature and how certain species stack up against each other. At first, it was like mainly in direct combat, but I've come to enjoyed the indirect strategies animals use to interact with their surroundings. This is probably one of my favorite aspects about how you wrote the ecology of Kaimere.
Take mammoths and Drenguga for example, in how they avoid the occasional zentaur. They usually don't directly fight them off, but through using the terrain, environment, and social network to outmanuver the theropod and escape to higher ground.
This reminds actually how mountain goats and other such animals avoid threats through living up mountains. Big cats have been known to fall off of cliffs while hunting them, so they don't need to fight off or outrun a threat if simply getting to them is hazardous and that has its own coolness to me.
I’m surprised to see that Sebecids still survive in Kaimere. Can’t say I’m disappointed. Is this the one and only surviver? Assuming Sobekids are still a thing, I can imagine it would be confusing.
They're the only species in the known world, but that's not to say there aren't others beyond.
@@TalesofKaimere Sebecid were a great predatory land crocodiles clade back on Earth. From small to very large species.
But in general, they fitted mostly canid or cats niches and they were animals which inhabited forested biomes, as being reptiles, they weren't a lot endurant and such need coverage to made ambush to made good kills.
As for all the Cenozoic Harvest most of Ni'Khar was covered by large and wide vast open-spaces prairies, Sebecid didn't spread and go farer on this continent and to Kairul.
And as the Portal introduced massively canid and cats during all the numerous Cenozoic Harvest, and the Sebecid being introduced 2 times but wit only one single when they truly established, this being at one of the early ones, the small, medium to large species overtime face too much pressures from these mammals and were outcompeted by them.
Except in the Jungle of the East, which completely cut from the rest of the Known World since the same said harvest which introduced Sebecid for the first time, the population of it didn't face this competition and was spared.
I don't see anywhere on Arvel where another relictual surviving population of Sebecid could be present, as these same small, medium to large mammalian predators are present everywhere on it.
How to destroy the dinosaur domination in Kaimere: make Earth humans colonize Kaimere.
Would quickly become a setting that doesn't interest me but yes, modern humans would absolutely desolate Kaimere
@@TalesofKaimere if that happens what would the harvest be called and what dynasty would be named after the era of Human Domination?
congrats to three years on UA-cam! I sincerely pray your project survives the coming years of the likely flood of AI-generated content!!!
Thank you! I’m honestly just hoping I’ve established myself enough that I can withstand it but if UA-cam becomes unusable in a year or two I won’t be shocked
NGL.... i would LOVE to se this world as a TTRPG
That’s the hope down the road!
What about. Friends.
There are many examples of dinosaurs and mammals cooperating, with perhaps the most famous being the hyenas and blue cockatrice of the prairie
I still wanna know who won in the illustration of a hukolgur vs qotaur
Haha that’s just social behavior between those two. Every time they meet they gotta throw down. It ain’t to the death, just a good old fashioned rivalry
@@TalesofKaimere LMAO I like that. Just gotta keep each other on their toes.a good tussle keeps both populations strong 💪
nice
Team bokodu all the way.
Hell yeah
Are there any symbiotic relationships between dinosaurs and mammals in Kaimere?
Maybe not in the strictest sense but for example there are mixed herbivore herds of mammal and dinosaur throughout the known world, and hyenas and cockatrice on the prairie cooperate in the most famous example of the two clades working and living together as predators.
Sauropsids and Synapsids have been beefing for over 300 million years!
adaptable generalists are always abouta start something ridiculous
especially the ones from the trees
Is you still make the Ammut episode
Yup! That's this coming Tuesday
Where the Saturday morning cartoon?
0:57 ☠️
Iconic
Therapsids vs birds: Therapsids wins
Therapsids vs. dinos:?
Mammals vs birds: mammals
Mammals vs dinos.:?
Now do this same video but add homunculi to the mix
0:57/ 20:23
🦖 are intelligent and would absolutely win againts a🐻
🗿👍
SEBECID MENTIONED
En réalité un combat entre hedgebect ( hed) et un silver cockacrice ( cocka)serait 50/ 50 car le silver cocka à l’aire plus et à des armes non néligible de plus le cocka à une taille supérieure et une masse probablement égale ou un peu supérieur à selui hed de plus il à l’aire plus impressionnant et peu faire fuir son énemie personnellement je pense que le cocka gagne mais étant donné que c’est votre création je respecte votre avis la dessus
Mais le cocka ne peut pas représenter tout les dinosaures theropode de sa taille car un tyrannosauroidea, carcharodontosauridae, spinosaurid,abelisauridae, Allosauroïde, et megalosauroïde de sa taille serait toujours plus puissants que lui et pourrait dépasser hed sans trop de problème
Aussi en réalité le cocka pourrait atteindre 300 - 450 kg en vrais
who would win, dinos or mammals? .... today i had to dispose of a chicken because of a wild rat. Last year i lost many ducks becaude of rats and foxes.... yeah my money is on mammals
Mec non les poule et les canard sont des dinosaures aviaire domestique si tu prends un aigles il pourrait tuer un renard et un rat assez facilement en réalité
@@laseriedeladilophosaure9246 And a wolf
We ask how mammals can defeat dinosaurs which are much bigger and stronger, but we forget how dinosaurs can hope to protect their nests from swarm of tiny, intelligent and persistent nest raiders.
It's certainly had an impact on their reproductive strategies! A lot of thescelosaurs for example rely on social defense, burrows, and even fasting during the nesting period because of this pressure.
@@TalesofKaimere Without mentioning that most species actively and at sight kill mammals species they know being omnivores and nest raiders during this specific periods.
For example, Titanosaurs kill intensively Wild Boars when they lay their eggs, same for most others herbivorous species, even if that have the sad repecussions that Peccaries, which aren't as eggs eater than their Wild Boar relative, are persecuted and killed by error in the process, due to being too similar in appearance.