Update: MSI have confirmed that the issue where only engineering samples were recognised without a BIOS update, only applies to review unit motherboards and not retail models.
I just finished watching the MSI livestream. There is no difference in numbers. MSI did not even use the X3D chips in their numbers but they made 9900X seem like a great CPU to buy.
I watched a handful of videos to learn more about the new intel line-up. This video was the most informative. Give me the complete picture of the process. Performance and wattage are important, but want to know about stability, crashes, BSOD and whatever else may occur that the general public may experience. Well done Leo.
You should also check out Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed with them you get the entire picture. Hardware Unboxed benchmarks most games and Gamers Nexus goes into a lot more detail than most.
Exactly... This review, is the best from a personal an actual user-experience. Unlike my favorites, Jayz2cents, GamersNexus - They focused on deep-dive metrics which is OK, but not the full picture.
my first stop on the Core Ultra 2 round-up is Leo's review. I don't think I need to see any more. Do I want to? Seems like some masochism required for the new Intel chips. Thanks for enduring the frustration Leo so we don't have to. I think I'll continue with Alder Lake for quite some time more (Alder Lake is very good!). ETA: key take-aways for me; performance is good although not astonishing. Power usage still disappointing given Intel's claims. I think the rest of the issues will be sorted out by BIOS and software updates.
@@tringuyen7519 thanks, already did! And the 9000 X3D is up next... Probably not a huge uplift however, in keeping with the new generation that seems to be focusing more on power reduction which I think most people are missing; people outside Europe anyway, where energy costs are more significant than to the average North American (currently (no pun))
@@tringuyen7519 Let me correct that for you: the arrow lake launch software hampered benchmarks to the point that we don't know its actual performance. After patches (which have been part and parcel with every AMD launch for the past decade) it will likely land right at the 14900k's gaming benchmarks, which is very close behind the 7800X3D. And it will without question trounce the 7800X3D every single second outside of games. It's literally 2x faster in moist media and productivity work. You should look at things from the perspective of objectivity and not as a cheerleader with pom-poms yelling for a sports team. These are pieces of hardware.
@@treyquattroalso, Steve's point about not believing the software power readings is very wise advice. And Leo's adventure to get it up and running seems to be on the milder side compared to quite a few others. Now let's see how AMD is going to screw this launch up, LoL. Another golden goose opportunity squandered?
Couple or 3+ points: 1. Nice soothing voice as usual. 2. With the Ultra 9 using faster RAM we won't know when it's actually a factor or not, I guess we'll have to wait for a memory scaling video 3. Funny how the 9950X wins in CB23 and loses in CB24, magic in a bottle. CB and Geek Bench are fast and easy but provide the consumer with limited, if any real value or understanding as to what the numbers mean except higher better. 4. Intel gets better power consumption numbers by moving from Intel 10nm to TSMC 3nm, whodathunkit? 5. I like what Intel has done with the packaging/tiling but this process must be expensive. AMD must be making a killing by using 4nm and keeping the same packaging.
Under normal circumstances, 3nm should have delivered such a massive performance. It would have been expensive, but they would have regained their position as gaming king, but they managed to fuxk it up
The increased memory latency is actually expected, known regression. They've moved the memory controllers away from the CPU so it now on one of the other dies which means they need to synchronize and transfer the data - some pre-launch estimates put it around 15ns extra latency, your data suggests it's a bit worse at around 20ns. Which really shows how impressive the Ryzen latency figures are - AMD have remote memory controllers too (on the IO die in their case) but it's fast enough it matched Intel's integrated controller on the old monolithic dies! And now that Intel does the same it's very visible that they're behind on latency but ahead on bandwidth - unfortunately for Intel fixing latency issues are HARD while fixing bandwidth pretty much can be solved by just "add more cache" (hence X3D). Intel MAY be able to cut the latency penalty a bit by improving settings but they really need to redesign the entire memory controller.
AMD has actually already made an even better IO die with a better memory controller. While for desktop Zen 5 they used the same one that was used on previous Zen architectures. Their Zen 5 EPYC server CPUs actually use a new IO die which appears to be significantly better than what desktop Zen5 has. So AMD has likely produced a better memory controller in that new IO die than even Intel's monolithic one. (Of course it's also due to the design of the architecture itself, but the end result appears to be better)
You clearly were not swayed by that truly bizarre Intel grilling. You're an honest man and a man of integrity. That's damn, damn rare on UA-cam/social media these days. Keep it up.
Wow. Expected a standard review and got an honesty overdose! Have to ask if this is unusual or does Kitguru get a lot of these splatter-gun launches and have to tidy everything up for the public?
Yep. It's really just not competitive in any meaningful way. Even in the areas it's somewhat comparable to AMD, it's still doing so with more power consumption, and with a load more issues. There isn't really any logical reason why someone This was definitely rushed out in a desperate attempt to beat Zen 5 X3D to market because otherwise the reviews would likely have been even more brutal. All things considered, this is worse than Rocket Lake. It may not be as outright bad as rocket lake was, but there was so much more hype expectations around this launch. I remember when Arrow Lake was supposed to be Intel's big attempt to leapfrog AMD and take outright performance leadership back. It was going to be manufactured on Intel's 18A node and include all these new design wins. Instead they moved it to TSMC, and then rushed it out early to try and beat AMD to market and move on from the stink of the 13th and 14th gen issues as fast as possible. Instead of being a triumphant return to form, it has instead become just another example of Intel's inability to properly execute and bring quality products to market on time.
@@e2rqey Well, as the review by gamers Nexus showed, it isn't even capable to beat the old X3D chips in games. It doesn't even come close. Especially the 245K is an absolute snail in games. Also, as this is basically a new architecture, the release was maybe rushed, but i don't think we would see massive performance gains even if Intel would have worked on it 3 months longer. Such new architetecture normally is a few years in the making. It simply is what it is. The architecture doesn't seem to be very good.
The sad thing is, the 13900k/14900k voltage spikes seem to be finally be under control and temps are under control now which makes benchmarks more predictable than bouncing against thermal limits. The best Intel chip now is the 14900k (I won't say KS because that may be touching the limits of this generation and I had to RMA 2 of them, admittedly before the latest microcode and BIOS updates). Certainly won't be upgrading my 14900k, my family 13900k machine or my work office 13900k system.
I really appreciate reviewers such as yourself informing the public of these challenges. It appears we are going to be beta testers and there are growing pains from intel, MOBO mfg, Graphics card firmware/software updates. I'm hoping that they all start pushing out updates to help stabilize this new intel platform. That said, I still ordered the Asus MOBO TUF gaming board and pushing thru the problem solving. Your review shed some light and now I know how to diagnose the problems to get this stable..ish
SHINTEL isn't using a new core layout design....it's using TSMC manufactured TILE BASED design that AMD developed and is using since the Ryzen 1000 series from April of 2017. That TILE BASED design that Shintel ridiculed as "glued together" back in 2018. SHINTEL is also cheating in PWR consumption by secretly requesting additional PWR through the 24-PIN connector. SHINTEL ditched the Hyper-Thrading due to high PWR consumption, too high TEMPS and numerous SECURITY issues via HT.
I kinda expected this. Intel are really struggling with everything. You simply can not fire all of your technical support team and expect this to be ready. That team would have stopped this before it got to reviewers.
@@Lets_get_wealthy 5950X has enough cores/threads to remain performant for some time imo. Not expecting to upgrade for at least 5 years, barring the unforseen.
Leo didnt hold any punches- this might be a good guide video for people having issues however ! Hopefully a lot of. these are ironed out already but interesting look behind the scenes !
@@thetheoryguy5544 what a load of crap. Arrow Lake is a "disaster". There's absolutely no defense for these chips. Intel should have at least had the decency to wait until these things were finished before releasing them.
@@stephenwerner1662 We can say the same for AMD zen 5 can't we. The CPU's aren't the issue as raw performance indicates. Its shitty Windows and AMD biased lack luster game development. Keep in mind the reason games run better on AMD is because their chips are in consoles so game developers optimize for that AMD platform in mind which eventually releases on PC as well.
Leo you Are The man. But there must be something wrong with that memory. Bandwidth is incredible and latency is the worst I’ve seen. Seems like for gaming this will negatively impact frame rates massively.
As I mentioned in the video, Over the past week I have spoken to a number of reviewers and most - if not all - are using CUDIMMs so go check out other reviews and see what you think. Leo
This is what happens when a company only exists to please its investors. You get shitty, half ass, rushed to the door yearly releases. How's about putting more than 5 minutes into a new product, creating something amazing for the customer? Nah, that wouldn't make investors happy at all, instead you'd rather keep pushing out buggy, experiential, incremental crap like it's the bees knees, and at times innovating backwards with the sole intention of repeating the same garbage cycle over and over again. FarkQ intel. Modern society sucks.
Good coverage leo and straight to the point too. I was hoping Intel might have had something more positive for launch, but at least when you eventually got around to some testing, they look good!
Brilliant dissection of the whole release. Let's see if all the updates from Intel, MS and Mobo makers can improve this platform. As it currently stands, for the price that it is selling, it's a hard pass for me and my workloads.
The confusion over motherboards that required updating is surely down to MSI. The business with Windows 24H2 installation and Windows Power Plan seems to be fixable with BIOS updates however that feels like it is Intel's fault as they clearly rushed this launch. These CPUs do indeed have potential however the launch has been chaotic. Leo
a total crapfest - maybe all these companies are driving us to game on consoles, cause I know no ordinary person would ever go through all this to play a few games, what a laugh
Unfortunately both Intel and AMD are underperforming because of Windows 11. They both are a helluva lot faster than previous generation CPUs in Linux. Check out Phoronix's testing
Intel *must* have know there were issues .... surely ... ! So why release now - wouldn't it have made a bit more sense to get it all sorted and launch at CES ?
Do you have to enter a Microsoft-account during setup now? Is there no workaround? I'm only asking because I'm still using Windows 10 and I am thinking of upgrading.
@@tehehe5929 Wrong bet, I think most won't bother upgrading at all! Performance is getting less and less from both companies, If you have a cpu within the last 3 gens then it's not worth it. I was going to upgrade from 12th gen 12700k, Build a new pc with Arrow lake 265k and motherboard and throw in all the stuff from old pc but after seeing this I'll skip this socket completely and wait for the next.
@@ChrisM541 No they aren't. You just think that cuz you live on the internet. The internet always has a way of making things seem like they're bigger than they are. Even the degradation issue was blown out of proportion.
Aside from these new platform issues, Windows 24H2 is simply a mess. I tried the release version but I had tons of problems with stability, compatibility with games and other software. I went back to 23H2 and set it as Target Feature version via group policy which will hopefully prevent Windows Update from updating it to 24H2. I think I'll skip this Intel Generation and just upgrade my AM5 system to a 9950X3D chip once it's available, as long as it's a reasonable upgrade to my 7950X3D. With the next Intel Generation, problems should hopefully be smoothed out and it may be worth considering again.
19:00 I think it was this year when a certain extreme overclocking benchmark world record was beaten by the i9 11900K because that chip had lower memory latency than anything that came out since.
12:00 good point Leo, my Zen 2 preferred balanced for better ST performance where high performance just generated more heat and didnt make a whole lot of difference in MT
I wanted to upgrade my good old 13700k , i'm still on the z690 platform. But i don't know.. might save the money for a 5090 in the future, seems like a bigger upgrade.
Brilliant, succinct and well spoken. Considering Leo's frustration with the whole setup and his astute analysis, let's wait a bit on jumping on this bandwagon. Thank you Leo for an excellent review and concise explanations to the problems.
19:22 default XMP profile must be running extremely loose main and secondary timings, you can achieve better numbers with 6800MT/s single rank kit with optimized timings
I just bought an Ultra 9 285K CPU and an ASUS Z890 motherboard. After installing Windows 11 24H2 on this brand-new setup, it kept crashing and rebooting repeatedly right from the start. At first, I thought my RTX 4070 GPU was faulty. Eventually, I had to downgrade to 23H2 to resolve the issue, wasting several hours of my time. Such an obvious issue, and Intel couldn’t catch it during testing? The decades-long image of Intel + Windows as a stable and highly compatible combination has been completely ruined for me. Next time, I’m going with AMD.
Personally I want to know if running memory at 8200 is severely affecting stability more than is being let on. It took over a year for DDR5 @ 6000 to 'stabilize', and that was the MOST stable speed for AM5.
18:00 re different RAM-configurations: Your 14700K result in CB23 MC is pretty much exactly what I'm getting on my 14700KF - and I'm running DDR4 3600 CL16 (on an MSI Z690 Tomahawk). So it looks to me like system memory doesn't play a huge role in these tests.
As a very happy Alder Lake (i5-12400) user I was just looking for something less fancy: keeping 65W TDP, 10-15% performance bump, 20-25% price increase which will go down with time / promotions. Simple, stable and low profile. On the other hand I personally like seeing Intel getting their ass handed by AMD. Intel could have done so much more for the consumers but they just didn’t want to. AMD struggled so much before Ryzen, but they listened to the consumers’ needs. Their success is well earned IMHO.
Imagine having to play with a windows power setting for laptops to get your desktop processor working properly - surely these arent laptop processors in disguise? *cue music
I said it before I'll say it again, if intel was truly able to make their CPUs consume 50% les power at the same performance people would be singing the praises of intel up and down but the simple fact of the matter is the 200 CPUs consume ~20% less power AND they preform worse than the 13th and 14th gens. The only thing they really excel at is things like blender and even then it isn't by much (~5% over the 9950X). AMD and intel were fighting over who could have the shittier launch and intel wanted to get that W, HARD.
Fantastic review. This was the most comprehensive I've seen so far. GN's "extreme" power monitoring has helped fill out the full picture a bit too. I'm looking forward to future revisits because I think Intel's new platform has potential but from my personal "prosumer" perspective it's currently academic. There's no reason for me to switch from a powerful, stable and efficient platform like am5 at the moment.
Leo is back! That's one messy launch, just dont know what to say it's a mess. I helped someone set up a 12th gen intel setup not to long back, it was the best budget option. When Zen 1 was new it also had bugs and good for a budget, I hope the 'Core Ultra' line have a good budget option for normal people.
Not a disaster for me. I bought a 13700k during the degradation chaos because I knew people would start returning them. I managed to find an open box for $230 in perfect condition. I expected this new chip from Intel to be a flop because they weren't hyping it up very much. All these reviews are proving my prediction correct.
If they're all Ultra then that means they're none Ultra, so then can we stop saying Ultra? Will Intel release non-Ultra versions? If not, then the Ultra is superfluous.
Very good review.....I saw a couple of them already and i can say that this is one and the one from GN (Steve though speaks so fasts that kills me) are the more informative
Worth noting that windows 11 24h2 FORCES the screengrabing RECALL function and it is not possible to disable it (its now part of file explorer) without some serious effort like making a custom installer in the same way an enterprise user would. IF you have any privacy concerns about this (and you should imo) 24h2 should be avoided at all costs, therefore so should this entire range of parts.
I'd hold off until Jan. That's my plan. By then the 9800X3D will be out and the Intel platform will have(hopefully) recieved some patches. Wait for Jan, check back on review channels to see updated info thus making a much more informed decision. If you're hoping for some sort of Black Friday deal, don't be fooled, most of those are scams anyway with shops hicking up prices just before BF and then "magically" cutting them, giving the illusion of a deal
Update: MSI have confirmed that the issue where only engineering samples were recognised without a BIOS update, only applies to review unit motherboards and not retail models.
Well at least that’s something positive 🍻
Do you still have to start your PC without a graphic card?
I just finished watching the MSI livestream. There is no difference in numbers. MSI did not even use the X3D chips in their numbers but they made 9900X seem like a great CPU to buy.
How Embrassing.
Intel lie again ,,,,this is not TSMC. ,,,,new Intel same hot shit
I watched a handful of videos to learn more about the new intel line-up. This video was the most informative. Give me the complete picture of the process. Performance and wattage are important, but want to know about stability, crashes, BSOD and whatever else may occur that the general public may experience. Well done Leo.
thanks, appreciate that !
very true, good hands on real world look, one I think I will avoid !
yes kitguru are great. doesnt get enough recognition IMO
You should also check out Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed with them you get the entire picture. Hardware Unboxed benchmarks most games and Gamers Nexus goes into a lot more detail than most.
Exactly... This review, is the best from a personal an actual user-experience.
Unlike my favorites, Jayz2cents, GamersNexus - They focused on deep-dive metrics which is OK, but not the full picture.
Intel firing all the people they need for a better launch, and putting the testing onto reviewers instead
my first stop on the Core Ultra 2 round-up is Leo's review. I don't think I need to see any more. Do I want to? Seems like some masochism required for the new Intel chips. Thanks for enduring the frustration Leo so we don't have to. I think I'll continue with Alder Lake for quite some time more (Alder Lake is very good!).
ETA: key take-aways for me; performance is good although not astonishing. Power usage still disappointing given Intel's claims. I think the rest of the issues will be sorted out by BIOS and software updates.
well said !
Watch both HUB & GN for the gaming comparison. Spoiler: 7800X3D wipes the floor with the Ultra 285K in price, performance, & power!
@@tringuyen7519 thanks, already did! And the 9000 X3D is up next... Probably not a huge uplift however, in keeping with the new generation that seems to be focusing more on power reduction which I think most people are missing; people outside Europe anyway, where energy costs are more significant than to the average North American (currently (no pun))
@@tringuyen7519 Let me correct that for you: the arrow lake launch software hampered benchmarks to the point that we don't know its actual performance. After patches (which have been part and parcel with every AMD launch for the past decade) it will likely land right at the 14900k's gaming benchmarks, which is very close behind the 7800X3D. And it will without question trounce the 7800X3D every single second outside of games. It's literally 2x faster in moist media and productivity work.
You should look at things from the perspective of objectivity and not as a cheerleader with pom-poms yelling for a sports team. These are pieces of hardware.
@@treyquattroalso, Steve's point about not believing the software power readings is very wise advice. And Leo's adventure to get it up and running seems to be on the milder side compared to quite a few others. Now let's see how AMD is going to screw this launch up, LoL. Another golden goose opportunity squandered?
Couple or 3+ points: 1. Nice soothing voice as usual. 2. With the Ultra 9 using faster RAM we won't know when it's actually a factor or not, I guess we'll have to wait for a memory scaling video 3. Funny how the 9950X wins in CB23 and loses in CB24, magic in a bottle. CB and Geek Bench are fast and easy but provide the consumer with limited, if any real value or understanding as to what the numbers mean except higher better. 4. Intel gets better power consumption numbers by moving from Intel 10nm to TSMC 3nm, whodathunkit? 5. I like what Intel has done with the packaging/tiling but this process must be expensive. AMD must be making a killing by using 4nm and keeping the same packaging.
Good point on AMD using 4nm
Under normal circumstances, 3nm should have delivered such a massive performance. It would have been expensive, but they would have regained their position as gaming king, but they managed to fuxk it up
CB R24 - AVX, AVX-512 CB R23 - not.
@@tomaszbyczek7611 If so, then Zen 5's superior AVX/AVX512 should put in the lead.
@@tomaszbyczek7611The Core Ultra doesn't support AVX 512 you cock, the Ryzen does.
Intel making AMD look good - never thought id say that
Leo looks really quite tired, but kept it quite moderated considering. blinding thumbnail however, that is a classic
Not what I expected! But that's why we value you so highly. As, clearly, does Intel.
@@QuentinStephens they got their bros and cousins to sit in on that call 😂
I am very sad now, I thought this would have projected Intel back into a position to challenge AMD, but it seems not. what a crap year
what? are you intel fanboy ? why crap year ? you can buy better amd cpus long time ago .
@@parm2-x7h Right!
AMD really dont need to spend money on marketing, Intel do it for them with all their launches lately
Intel are taking this seriously - what a comment leo - I am not surprised they put you in a call with 7 other people from the company. bit late tho
I think we need a Leo School of Hardware Reviewing because this is exactly how it's done. Show the end user experience, no fluff, warts and all.
The increased memory latency is actually expected, known regression. They've moved the memory controllers away from the CPU so it now on one of the other dies which means they need to synchronize and transfer the data - some pre-launch estimates put it around 15ns extra latency, your data suggests it's a bit worse at around 20ns. Which really shows how impressive the Ryzen latency figures are - AMD have remote memory controllers too (on the IO die in their case) but it's fast enough it matched Intel's integrated controller on the old monolithic dies! And now that Intel does the same it's very visible that they're behind on latency but ahead on bandwidth - unfortunately for Intel fixing latency issues are HARD while fixing bandwidth pretty much can be solved by just "add more cache" (hence X3D). Intel MAY be able to cut the latency penalty a bit by improving settings but they really need to redesign the entire memory controller.
Yep, we've seen it for a long time. techyes did a video on it ages ago.
AMD has actually already made an even better IO die with a better memory controller. While for desktop Zen 5 they used the same one that was used on previous Zen architectures. Their Zen 5 EPYC server CPUs actually use a new IO die which appears to be significantly better than what desktop Zen5 has. So AMD has likely produced a better memory controller in that new IO die than even Intel's monolithic one. (Of course it's also due to the design of the architecture itself, but the end result appears to be better)
You clearly were not swayed by that truly bizarre Intel grilling. You're an honest man and a man of integrity. That's damn, damn rare on UA-cam/social media these days. Keep it up.
😎
THIS is how you do a proper review...organized and in full! Well done
Glad you liked it!
Leo - not holding back ! 😂
Wow. Expected a standard review and got an honesty overdose! Have to ask if this is unusual or does Kitguru get a lot of these splatter-gun launches and have to tidy everything up for the public?
Can't imagine Leo glossing over issues
Quite the reverse - usually there is very little drama to relate. This time we had plenty and it seemed best to demonstrate as much as we could,
Leo
Wow great video leo, looked like such a mess up from start to finish
Seems really weird Intel themselves have been caught out by this.
@@jamesjessenden7838 Right!
Bro looks like he went through an intel interrogation chamber. Stay strong mate. 💪
😬
And with this, I shall move quickly onto the new Nvidia launch in the new year and save my money from platforms like this mess
Yep. It's really just not competitive in any meaningful way. Even in the areas it's somewhat comparable to AMD, it's still doing so with more power consumption, and with a load more issues. There isn't really any logical reason why someone This was definitely rushed out in a desperate attempt to beat Zen 5 X3D to market because otherwise the reviews would likely have been even more brutal.
All things considered, this is worse than Rocket Lake. It may not be as outright bad as rocket lake was, but there was so much more hype expectations around this launch.
I remember when Arrow Lake was supposed to be Intel's big attempt to leapfrog AMD and take outright performance leadership back. It was going to be manufactured on Intel's 18A node and include all these new design wins.
Instead they moved it to TSMC, and then rushed it out early to try and beat AMD to market and move on from the stink of the 13th and 14th gen issues as fast as possible.
Instead of being a triumphant return to form, it has instead become just another example of Intel's inability to properly execute and bring quality products to market on time.
@@e2rqey Well, as the review by gamers Nexus showed, it isn't even capable to beat the old X3D chips in games. It doesn't even come close. Especially the 245K is an absolute snail in games.
Also, as this is basically a new architecture, the release was maybe rushed, but i don't think we would see massive performance gains even if Intel would have worked on it 3 months longer. Such new architetecture normally is a few years in the making. It simply is what it is. The architecture doesn't seem to be very good.
@KitGuruTech Good sir, you've earned every second to vent. Lovely thumbnail by the way, I've the same look at the dentist.
oh boy, wasnt expecting this to be that bad
Looks like Intel were scrambling for into - they have fired most of their technical staff, so this is showing why you should not do that
Such a fitting end for such a corrupt big corporation. History books will mark this day as the. beginning of the end
Poor leadership now for years, Lisa Su must be laughing after her launch, which was bad, but at least they worked properly !
I would never call you a bithering fool, very harsh on yourself!
windows power plans - I have never looked at them unless I was on a laptop, is that sorted now? no longer ‘a thing’ ?
The sad thing is, the 13900k/14900k voltage spikes seem to be finally be under control and temps are under control now which makes benchmarks more predictable than bouncing against thermal limits. The best Intel chip now is the 14900k (I won't say KS because that may be touching the limits of this generation and I had to RMA 2 of them, admittedly before the latest microcode and BIOS updates). Certainly won't be upgrading my 14900k, my family 13900k machine or my work office 13900k system.
I really appreciate reviewers such as yourself informing the public of these challenges. It appears we are going to be beta testers and there are growing pains from intel, MOBO mfg, Graphics card firmware/software updates. I'm hoping that they all start pushing out updates to help stabilize this new intel platform.
That said, I still ordered the Asus MOBO TUF gaming board and pushing thru the problem solving. Your review shed some light and now I know how to diagnose the problems to get this stable..ish
Lol AMD haters will be cringing after all the negativity
SHINTEL isn't using a new core layout design....it's using TSMC manufactured TILE BASED design that AMD developed and is using since the Ryzen 1000 series from April of 2017. That TILE BASED design that Shintel ridiculed as "glued together" back in 2018.
SHINTEL is also cheating in PWR consumption by secretly requesting additional PWR through the 24-PIN connector.
SHINTEL ditched the Hyper-Thrading due to high PWR consumption, too high TEMPS and numerous SECURITY issues via HT.
I kinda expected this. Intel are really struggling with everything. You simply can not fire all of your technical support team and expect this to be ready. That team would have stopped this before it got to reviewers.
I single person at Intel could have written a guide and avoided this mess. How can these simple errors occur?
Intel lovers will be flaming Leo, sure of it
Well Leo telling it like it is - not sure Intel will be sending you any more processors thats for sure
Thanks Leo. Look forward to your take on 9000x3d
Imagine if it beats the infamous X3D we all love lol
Thanks for including the 5950X in the charts, not many reviewers are.
Another one running 5950x.
Maybe when zen6 came out I will upgrade
@@Lets_get_wealthy 5950X has enough cores/threads to remain performant for some time imo. Not expecting to upgrade for at least 5 years, barring the unforseen.
Leo didnt hold any punches- this might be a good guide video for people having issues however ! Hopefully a lot of. these are ironed out already but interesting look behind the scenes !
And some reviewers were thinking Zen 5 was bad...
ARL not bad its just cry baby gamers want their extra 5 fps.
@@thetheoryguy5544Watch the video Leo trying to install Windows…
@@thetheoryguy5544 what a load of crap. Arrow Lake is a "disaster". There's absolutely no defense for these chips. Intel should have at least had the decency to wait until these things were finished before releasing them.
@@stephenwerner1662 We can say the same for AMD zen 5 can't we. The CPU's aren't the issue as raw performance indicates. Its shitty Windows and AMD biased lack luster game development. Keep in mind the reason games run better on AMD is because their chips are in consoles so game developers optimize for that AMD platform in mind which eventually releases on PC as well.
@@thetheoryguy5544 Keep up the copium 😂
Leo you Are The man. But there must be something wrong with that memory. Bandwidth is incredible and latency is the worst I’ve seen. Seems like for gaming this will negatively impact frame rates massively.
As I mentioned in the video, Over the past week I have spoken to a number of reviewers and most - if not all - are using CUDIMMs so go check out other reviews and see what you think.
Leo
This is what happens when a company only exists to please its investors. You get shitty, half ass, rushed to the door yearly releases. How's about putting more than 5 minutes into a new product, creating something amazing for the customer? Nah, that wouldn't make investors happy at all, instead you'd rather keep pushing out buggy, experiential, incremental crap like it's the bees knees, and at times innovating backwards with the sole intention of repeating the same garbage cycle over and over again. FarkQ intel. Modern society sucks.
The whole thing feels like a beta test rather than a ready to release product.
KitGuru always gets my first click over any other channel
Straight to the point with zero bullcrap just excellent coverage
Love it
T’was a good one from sir Leo ❤️
Cant beat dour British sarcasm to properly review something without enthusiasm.
wow, poor intel, rough video leo !
Intel need to hire better people, this should have all been avoided before it go to reviewers - looks massively rushed, like AMDs launch
well that was an interesting video, what a utter shambolics
Thanks for the view
@@KitGuruTech Welcome!
Good guide on how to get these systems to post - i reckon it will be fixed very soon
You were very calm - saying it was likely a driver software issue. Id have been throwing monitors at windows
What is up with the memory latency issues? is this new memory so different? havent hear much about it at all
It’s caused by Arrow Lake not the memory. The memory is absolutely fine.
Wonder if a BIOS update will fix that.
arrow like is tile based thus introduced a bit of latency.
@@philipjfry628 it has nothing to do with BIOSes. This has been the issue since Meteor Lake. If there was a fix, it would’ve been out by now.
they're gluing tiles now... and reused some parts from meteor lake (laptop) so thats why its so bad
19:30 What's up with the memory read figures for Zen 5?
Is there any information regarding CSM or legacy support yet?
thx for your Review.
Good coverage leo and straight to the point too. I was hoping Intel might have had something more positive for launch, but at least when you eventually got around to some testing, they look good!
Once the bugs are worked through it's probably going to be a decent platform. The power draw / performance is quite impressive.
Brilliant dissection of the whole release. Let's see if all the updates from Intel, MS and Mobo makers can improve this platform. As it currently stands, for the price that it is selling, it's a hard pass for me and my workloads.
Its amazing. Driver issues in modern windows on an Intel platform. What on earth is happening?
intel fired alot of peoole and this cpu was made by tsmc, intel is in full sell the company in pieces mode, nothing good
Glad to see Microsoft are keeping the blue screen spirit alive in 2024!
Microsoft have a knack of blue screens.
its like a 25 minute of problems to fix. Sounds awesome. AMD will get my money next time
leo, you are brutal man ! love it !
wow thats terrible
Wow Leo, going for the jugular. way to go man !
Are you doing more on this Leo? Surely not, probably a week per video
Is this not MSIs fault, rather than intels ? performance seems good at the end !
The confusion over motherboards that required updating is surely down to MSI. The business with Windows 24H2 installation and Windows Power Plan seems to be fixable with BIOS updates however that feels like it is Intel's fault as they clearly rushed this launch. These CPUs do indeed have potential however the launch has been chaotic.
Leo
@@KitGuruTech Okay!
a total crapfest - maybe all these companies are driving us to game on consoles, cause I know no ordinary person would ever go through all this to play a few games, what a laugh
This is pre-launch reviewer woes. If you buy this as a consumer, you won't go through any of this.
@@CyberneticArgumentCreatorsame hardware same issues
Bye intel. Good riddance. Your anti-comptitive behaviors are bearing fruits 😂
Get ready for monopoly AMD! We’ll see if they’re as generous
Hard to argue both your points.
Unfortunately both Intel and AMD are underperforming because of Windows 11. They both are a helluva lot faster than previous generation CPUs in Linux. Check out Phoronix's testing
Yeah, Windows sucks soon much, and it makes both Intel and AMD look bad, when the OS is a piece of garbage.
@@razvanfodor5653 that’s hard to argue mate 💯
Good video, see what happens in the future may get better but who knows
Not going to wait 6 months for Intel to “fix” the Ultra 285K when the 9800X3D is launching next week.
I think Intel wont recover from this one, they are already on shaky ground now. sad to see such an important company ended up such a mess
Intel *must* have know there were issues .... surely ... !
So why release now - wouldn't it have made a bit more sense to get it all sorted and launch at CES ?
@@mrb.5610 Those are issues with motherboard bios though, Intel has no control over that.
Do you have to enter a Microsoft-account during setup now? Is there no workaround? I'm only asking because I'm still using Windows 10 and I am thinking of upgrading.
Is Arrow Lake CPUs and Z890 motherboard still buggy after bios update as of Nov 16th?
I'm thinking of buying the Intel Core Ultra 7 265K.
And this is launching right into the fist of the 9800X3D in two weeks? Good luck, Intel.
My bet is a lot of people are going to buy Intel anyway, because they've always done so.
@@tehehe5929 The reality is that more and more Intel fanboys are 'defecting' to AMD's AM5. When the penny drops and all that ;)
@@tehehe5929 Wrong bet, I think most won't bother upgrading at all!
Performance is getting less and less from both companies, If you have a cpu within the last 3 gens then it's not worth it.
I was going to upgrade from 12th gen 12700k, Build a new pc with Arrow lake 265k and motherboard and throw in all the stuff from old pc but after seeing this I'll skip this socket completely and wait for the next.
@@ChrisM541 No they aren't. You just think that cuz you live on the internet. The internet always has a way of making things seem like they're bigger than they are. Even the degradation issue was blown out of proportion.
@@DingleBerryschnapps Touché
I dont blame you not wanting Norton to install, they try to fob that onto everyone , Shame on you MSI dragon center is bad enough
Aside from these new platform issues, Windows 24H2 is simply a mess. I tried the release version but I had tons of problems with stability, compatibility with games and other software. I went back to 23H2 and set it as Target Feature version via group policy which will hopefully prevent Windows Update from updating it to 24H2.
I think I'll skip this Intel Generation and just upgrade my AM5 system to a 9950X3D chip once it's available, as long as it's a reasonable upgrade to my 7950X3D. With the next Intel Generation, problems should hopefully be smoothed out and it may be worth considering again.
Thanks Leo, and well, get some rest I suggest - before the next video
19:00 I think it was this year when a certain extreme overclocking benchmark world record was beaten by the i9 11900K because that chip had lower memory latency than anything that came out since.
12:00 good point Leo, my Zen 2 preferred balanced for better ST performance where high performance just generated more heat and didnt make a whole lot of difference in MT
In the recent releases and reviews, it is not clear whether Intel or Microsoft is more in want of fixing.
I wanted to upgrade my good old 13700k , i'm still on the z690 platform. But i don't know.. might save the money for a 5090 in the future, seems like a bigger upgrade.
13700k is still a nice CPU bro
If you’re upgrading, AMD is your only choice. Given the utter mess of Error Lake, Intel’s LGA 1851 platform may not be long for this world!
Why would you upgrade every generation? The 13700k is a monster, you need to delete your FOMO.
Brilliant, succinct and well spoken. Considering Leo's frustration with the whole setup and his astute analysis, let's wait a bit on jumping on this bandwagon. Thank you Leo for an excellent review and concise explanations to the problems.
Glad you enjoyed it
it's a disaster 😂
anyway nice review by Leo
19:22 default XMP profile must be running extremely loose main and secondary timings, you can achieve better numbers with 6800MT/s single rank kit with optimized timings
I just bought an Ultra 9 285K CPU and an ASUS Z890 motherboard. After installing Windows 11 24H2 on this brand-new setup, it kept crashing and rebooting repeatedly right from the start. At first, I thought my RTX 4070 GPU was faulty. Eventually, I had to downgrade to 23H2 to resolve the issue, wasting several hours of my time.
Such an obvious issue, and Intel couldn’t catch it during testing? The decades-long image of Intel + Windows as a stable and highly compatible combination has been completely ruined for me.
Next time, I’m going with AMD.
Personally I want to know if running memory at 8200 is severely affecting stability more than is being let on. It took over a year for DDR5 @ 6000 to 'stabilize', and that was the MOST stable speed for AM5.
18:00 re different RAM-configurations: Your 14700K result in CB23 MC is pretty much exactly what I'm getting on my 14700KF - and I'm running DDR4 3600 CL16 (on an MSI Z690 Tomahawk). So it looks to me like system memory doesn't play a huge role in these tests.
As a very happy Alder Lake (i5-12400) user I was just looking for something less fancy: keeping 65W TDP, 10-15% performance bump, 20-25% price increase which will go down with time / promotions.
Simple, stable and low profile.
On the other hand I personally like seeing Intel getting their ass handed by AMD.
Intel could have done so much more for the consumers but they just didn’t want to.
AMD struggled so much before Ryzen, but they listened to the consumers’ needs. Their success is well earned IMHO.
Imagine having to play with a windows power setting for laptops to get your desktop processor working properly - surely these arent laptop processors in disguise? *cue music
oh dear, not much i can add to this - that first half of the video was a good guide for people however
I said it before I'll say it again, if intel was truly able to make their CPUs consume 50% les power at the same performance people would be singing the praises of intel up and down but the simple fact of the matter is the 200 CPUs consume ~20% less power AND they preform worse than the 13th and 14th gens. The only thing they really excel at is things like blender and even then it isn't by much (~5% over the 9950X).
AMD and intel were fighting over who could have the shittier launch and intel wanted to get that W, HARD.
Fantastic review. This was the most comprehensive I've seen so far. GN's "extreme" power monitoring has helped fill out the full picture a bit too. I'm looking forward to future revisits because I think Intel's new platform has potential but from my personal "prosumer" perspective it's currently academic. There's no reason for me to switch from a powerful, stable and efficient platform like am5 at the moment.
Glad it was helpful!
We have a good word in Russian for situation like this intel's launch - pizdec. Now is definitely worst time to build a new PC from scratch.
Unless you go AMD zen 5
thanks Leo - and wow
Leo is back!
That's one messy launch, just dont know what to say it's a mess.
I helped someone set up a 12th gen intel setup not to long back, it was the best budget option. When Zen 1 was new it also had bugs and good for a budget, I hope the 'Core Ultra' line have a good budget option for normal people.
Not a disaster for me. I bought a 13700k during the degradation chaos because I knew people would start returning them. I managed to find an open box for $230 in perfect condition. I expected this new chip from Intel to be a flop because they weren't hyping it up very much.
All these reviews are proving my prediction correct.
If they're all Ultra then that means they're none Ultra, so then can we stop saying Ultra? Will Intel release non-Ultra versions? If not, then the Ultra is superfluous.
Wow, the quick pop on and off ssd heatsink feature. The exploded picture of an Epyc or TR CPU.
Sorry, I got distracted.
Very good review.....I saw a couple of them already and i can say that this is one and the one from GN (Steve though speaks so fasts that kills me) are the more informative
Mess or what - They arent getting my money anymore
Worth noting that windows 11 24h2 FORCES the screengrabing RECALL function and it is not possible to disable it (its now part of file explorer) without some serious effort like making a custom installer in the same way an enterprise user would. IF you have any privacy concerns about this (and you should imo) 24h2 should be avoided at all costs, therefore so should this entire range of parts.
Want a new PC next month and was hoping for choices, but so many reviews are saying that Intel is not ready for launch 😢
Ryzen looking much better
You must be insane to think you have options after Intel’s fumble with 2 generations 13 & 14!
I'd hold off until Jan. That's my plan. By then the 9800X3D will be out and the Intel platform will have(hopefully) recieved some patches. Wait for Jan, check back on review channels to see updated info thus making a much more informed decision. If you're hoping for some sort of Black Friday deal, don't be fooled, most of those are scams anyway with shops hicking up prices just before BF and then "magically" cutting them, giving the illusion of a deal
Well this was not what I was expecting today 😮
I think it’s a great setup. It’s just early new platform bugs that need worked out. Also I’d run mine on unlimited watts to see the full performance.
What a mess 😮
Tuning the memory to get that memory latency down could really help game performance.