@@wallywest2360 FWIW, back in the day, these guys were the top line because of their support and build quality. Unless something changed, that's really what you pay for. Their sXit just flat worked every time, barring some random hardware failure.
@@larracis well depending on the country (Life is good in the Tumor (USA)) it can be 7500 easy. in Canada The RTX 4090 or 5090 is $2500-2600 by itself the 7800x3d is $850. 7500 isnt that far off
@@davidsmith4186 Nah hes right tho bro Nothing should be that expensive unless you are full-on getting a SERVER type WORKSTATION bro And the fact its just a 280 RAD is wild!
No custom loop, case looks like 100$ max, front panel is restricting air flow, looks cheap, fans look cheap, it's rather small for 600W of components inside, it's prob a hotbox. GN should get their hands on one of these.
@@ahoymateeez My guy, Google is your friend. Falcon NW has been top tier in every aspect for over a decade. That case is bespoke to them. They have thermals entirely under control. If this was iBuyPower or some SI that on that level you’d have a valid point, but they’re not. Someone seriously looking at Falcon NE is probably only cross shopping Puget Systems.
The motherboard is $999, the RAM is ~$400 for 96GB 6400MT/s, the GPU if you can find one new is ~$2900, the PSU is ~$220, decent-rated 280mm AIO $105, the smallest Crucial 2tB is $265. So, I get $4,889-ish, getting nothing at a discount... doesn't make it any better at $2,611 for the case and cable management... fucking wild is right!
@@RyTrapp0 Not the point, asking $2,611 over the parts I could buy myself is a steep increase even considering testing, their case, and 1 year warranty. I've purchased from F-NW before, their systems have always been great. This seems extreme when there's nothing truly custom about this except the case.
@@Ikadzuchi77 Then buy from a brand that doesn't do the extra work that FNW does💡 Absolutely wild concept, different products & services for different needs, expectations, and price points...
Some people want certain brands, stick with Chevy, vs Ford, etc. I'm on the fence with the cpu. Currently on a i9-9900k and it's handling my 4090 fully, might wait and see if it can use the 5090 fully and then upgrade next. Either 285k or 16c amd
I wouldn't know as I only watch Jay....but UA-cam has a feature called scheduled release. You make a video and upload it to youtube and then push schedule. So if embargo is Oct24 they just click Oct24 midnight.
@@jeremeweatherbee1667 Fanboys are often delusional, regardless of the brand they're defending. I prefer staying neutral and just call out BS, no matter if it's AMD, Intel or Nvidia. At the end of the day, they're all just companies trying to make a profit.
Only at 1080p. At 4k gaming which a lot of us do, it tells a different story. Try gaming at 1080p while recording and streaming simultaneously and it also changes things. Even at 1080p gaming, x3d and this platform are getting + 200 fps in a lot of titles. At that point I look for lower range fluctuations between lows and averages as more important plus in my case I'm monitor refresh bottlenecked.
@@bryanbowen4193this is 2 generations and 2 steps up in the product stack. It should be FLATTENING the 7800X3D for the price and Intel's place in the market right now. The 5800X3D shouldn't even be on it's radar in any context.
Falcon must be taking the piss, those prices are insane. Anyway, I love the new setup for this filming room, especially the carousel that allows you to show all sides of the case and the benchmark, etc in the background.
Recouping bad purchase decisions for hardware, maybe? A quick price check of the parts at retail is like $4880 without any discounts. That's one hell of a huge markup!
@@Ikadzuchi77 Man hours for assembly and tax. EDIT: Not a defense, just generally why prebuilds are so expensive but yeah these two alone wouldn't explain nearly $3k price difference, maybe at most $1500 - 1700.
im glad i upgraded in 2022 lol i remember walking into microcenter and asking for a 13900k, the guy helping quicky told me that they have a 12900k open box for $285 and i snagged it because great deal. thought i might upgrade later if i need. fast forward and i definitely dont need more compute power, 13th and 14th gen are riddled with microcode issues and 285k is only marginally better in gaming than a 12900k
Ooh nice, Have the 12900KF 4090, it's a solid gaming machine. Snagged last year on Fantastech 1 sale. We just got a Microcenter in Miami, might drive down for the next build.
I hear ya there, as in early 2023 I bought one of the Chinese Erying Mobos with an Intel Core i9 12900H CPU(yes laptop chip on a desktop MATX board) as I don't have Micro Center near me, and it does everything I need it to do under Linux, and then some, even with 32GB of DDR4 3200Mhz RAM, It's been doing me so well I'm honestly considering buying a 2nd board to replace the 2nd computer in my gameroom as whole setup would cost me less than what many of these new Intel, or AMD CPUs would.
@@JosephKarthic if you're going to buy new just go AMD. The 7500F is cheap and beats the snot out of the 12400f. if you must buy intel I'd recommend going the used route, I've found the 12900k for under 300, I'm sure you can find a 12600k or ideally a 12700k for pretty cheap. You might even get one with AVX-512, which helps with certain applications.
@@JosephKarthic It's okay with no e cores, my mother uses one. Would consider a 7500F aliexpress also for this price point, could pair with a night devil itx or get an asrock pro rs budget board. Have gamed on 12700KF & 12900KF, I shut off e cores anyway so p cores can push boost higher. Would go AM5 if it's not costing more has upgrade path, though DDR4 is an option on the 12400F.
The 9950x was on a massive sale not too long ago. You could find it as low as $500 in some places. They definitely got massive demand from the sale, so retailers decided to get some money back from the people who missed out but are gullible enough to buy above msrp. Give it another week or two and the prices should come back down
Hii, can you please explain the practical differences? Does it even matter the contrasts between these two for productivity/power-users (i.e., audio production, video production, old/basic gaming, etc.)?
Gaming doesn't really use more than 8c/16t configured CPUs. Considering that there is a thread deficit, the workload task results are quite impressive if you ask me.
@@tj_2701 Fr. Gamers can use pretty much any PC, it really matters not which specs nowadays for 90% of non-psychotically-demanding contemporary titles. Any lower mid end, middle mid end, or (if you really are in that 0.1% of extreme gamers) the upper mid end will do. High end? No point; you'll never see the ebenfit let alone actually use it. Meanwhile, musicians, programmers, audio engineers, and video production benefit massively from higher end PCs and often benefit way more from high clock speed than abundance of cores. Rather get a 5.8ghz CPU with only a few cores than 100 cores running at 3.2ghz....as a musician. Gamers _prefer_ cooler running, more efficient PCs; productivity users on the other hand NEED both of these aa givens, in addition to stability.
Even for productivity, of you take a look at code compile, compression/decompression the 285k is weak af. There are much better reviews than this one...as usual.
It's amazing how different your review of this is compared to the AMD 9000 series launch. It's very balanced about saying what the processor does better and what it does the same or worse and seemed to really work to highlight why you might want one rather than just trashing it the entire time because it didn't have a huge gaming uplift. If this is a conscious change in methodology due to the feedback you received on those reviews, job well done. If it wasn't a conscious change to the way you do reviews though, you might want to watch your own videos back to back and consider what biases you might have that are coming out in your reviews.
Being one of those crazy Skyrim/Fallout modders, I have noticed that big cache makes a world of difference because of the older Creation Engine "I hate multicore" coding. I am really wondering how these will fare vs 13900/13700. Draw calls. Nothing but draw calls...
@@jondonnelly3 it's good for productivity as well, if you care about price/performance/efficiency... Yeah sure, if you don't care about gaming _at all_ 3D makes less sense even within just the AMD lineup. But that's mostly because you pay extra for the 3D, not because it's it's not a solid performer for productivity.
Am on 12900KF, it's still solid for my gaming use case (might be fine a good 3-5 years) but likely going AM5 X3D when the time comes to leave. Runs really well paired with 4090 and 48gb DDR5, very smooth. Am sure there is better but it hasn't felt unpleasant to game on yet, raids like a champ.
It will depend, when and how i will play GTA VI, only this game will tell, all the games i played until now, full detail, 1440p and 100+ fps worse case,my monitor is 165, 32”.
So far, I have seen nothing to suggest I should upgrade from my 13th Gen CPU. Unless it melts down in the meantime [unlikely, IMO], I'll be hanging on to it for a few more years.
@@LuccianoNova Good point. If my 13th Gen _has_ been damaged, as long as the new BIOS/microcode actually works, replacing it is far easier and cheaper than basically buying a whole new CPU and Mobo combo.
Same but 12900KF 4090 48gb DDR5 on Linux. I think if anything is to be upgraded there was some smoothness gain in ram kits lower CAS and adding more ram. But I don't really need more ram. Just would be one place people could spend without going to another platform. I'm not sure but maybe the damaged CPU would work at lower clock/ram speeds. Have 3 12th gens in my household did a lot of BIOS updates but would go AM5 if a few years down the road a new build is required, still feel burnt by the time spent tuning machines but it's stable. Can always replace with RMA/12th gen or core lock the new chip. I disable the e cores gaming and turbo boost, would crash games for me.
And ASML is above all of them providing the machines, yet Intel is the only company that has bought the latest generation of lithography machine while tsmc is waiting. This is probably a temporary solution while Intel is preparing to up their fab game significantly.
Exactly - people complaining about prices (understandably) should realise that it's currently due to a monopoly of these high end process nodes by TSMC and ASML, who are charging what they want. Ironically, ASML's latest financials looked poor since everyone else is so far behind, they are having reduced sales and so not being able to afford as much of the latest lithograph...
I think TSMC said that the throughput on the latest ASML machines would increase per-chip production costs, so that they would never see a benefit in terms of profit. They make more sense for Intel, which have fallen too far behind and may be desperate.
@@fpadams i think that is true yes, the machine is still not fully refined. As long as they can keep making chips with the current gen they will keep doing it. They already proved they can stretch existing technologies A LOT, as we saw with 193nm machines during the intel stagnation days.
Intel hasn't been right since the 5800X3D. /s AMD's AM4 having a few generations of backwards compatibility has tremendous bang/buck for consumers. Intel necessitates that you toss out your old motherboard and cause more landfill waste.
The people that are in charge of intel the last ten years and the people that were in charge of Mitsubishi in the 2000's should be barred from touching a business for the rest of their lives. Screwing a good situation up that bad almost seems intentional, its almost too bad to be real.
@@MadClowdz Yes Stellantis deciding to turn Chrysler group into a high margin luxury brand, great idea... and those guys in the late 90s and early 2000s put the "BM" in IBM with their outsourcing and selloff to lenovo..
@@MadClowdz ah man i worked at a dodge dealership when Fiat bought into them and it become FCA, THAT shit was a DISASTER. the whole Chrysler group is one big screw up over and over.
I was wondering the same! What he calls "bonkers" is absolute nonsense. Raid 0 on three (!) SSDs. SSDs are nowadays fast enough. Most of the time it's almost idling, and if installing or loading a game, or whatever, it might peak at 100% for a short while, but if on load, it is maybe between 10% and 30%. And that is (here) with a PCIe4 SSD! So the advantage for faster reading is negligible. And the " " nice " " thing - if just ONE of the THREE SSDs dies - ALL your data is GONE. so that 19000MB/s (which is theoretical, PCIe5 SSDs are KNOWN to produce way more heat, and throttling down!), the real world gain is next to non existent. Even if considering all highend parts, plus 200 for the case, I am still missing at least 3k to reach the 7,5k. And many OEMs charge around 400, not 4000. eek!
You mention the temp drop at the end of the test as being an indication of the efficiency of the 285k..... yet in the next slide we see the 14900 doing the exact same thing. Test ends, temps drop almost steaight to 40c I think you're trying to find 285k praise points where there's just typical CPU behaviour when on a AIO and having only done a 10 minute workload.
The performance uplift from Win11 23H2 to 24H2 is likely due to the fact that it’s a complete re-install of the OS with hard links to your apps & data. There are no enablement packages for 24H2.
Jay, the ultra 285k actually has 50% more physical computational cores than something like the 9950x, but less threads. You need to stop saying the 285k is doing more with less cores when it has significantly more. As the distinction does sort of matter.
@@Qalibrated I guess kind of. Though I would see it more that Intel's 'E-Cores' are really more just what AMD use as standard in all their standard CPUs. Cores that are designed to be much more power efficient, but with lower performance headroom as a result. As that's how AMD have approached Ryzen since inception. They started off with low clock speeds where each core could barely break 3.6Ghz but had solid power efficiency, where as at the time Intel were pushing high performance low power efficiency CPUs with cores clocking 5Ghz+. And then AMD reiterated on the architecture over and over again as they matured the design approach to try gain the performance from their power efficiency centric core design. Ryzen CPUs are the rough equivalent of if Intel shipped CPUs with just 'E-Cores' and not a single 'P-Core'.... just several generations more matured. Now how things will look if AMD start to broaden their application of the P/E Core concept beyond the limited use compact/mobile CPU designs, we'll just have to wait and see.... but with how power efficient whilst still standing toe to toe on performance AMD have things at the moment, frankly I doubt they feel any pressure to start rolling out 'Higher performance lower power efficient' cores any time soon, so we'll likely just see them pushing a mix of even more power efficient cores purely for compact/mobile platforms exclusively.
Happy to see the new offices Jay. Lets hope this positive move and your health improvements all make the next 12 months the best ever. Looking forward to seeing your reviews and antics.
I'll obviously be waiting for the 9800X3D benchmarks in a few weeks, but what's really interesting to me as someone looking for the next upgrade being able to address both gaming and productivity (probably like 60/40), it's making me take another serious look at the 9900X for a more balanced experience. It won't command quite as high prices as the 9950X, 9950X3D, or ICU 285K. I've been using a B350 board from Ryzen 1700X to 3700X to 5900X, and while I wanted to give Intel a shot this time...maybe a 9900X with some fast DDR5 is going to be a better bet for my next upgrade? Going to be interesting to see how things play out over the next month or so.
HWInfo is not random, it's how the Cores are placed on the Die.The E-Cores are between P-Cores to spreak the temperature better. 13th/14th gen had a block of P-Cores and a block of E-Cores.
Mostly a Windows problem, though. Here it is from an expert....not ME. Here is Josh-level speak from Level 1 Techs on why Arrow lake is not as good as it should/could be..."Intel needs user land hooks in OS schedulers in Windows, it is already a thing in Linux. APO is a FIRST STEP, but SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE three generations ago! 'It's not just a scheduler problem though, it's different geometry in the system" Linux is our canary in the coal mine, to see how much Windows can improve Arrow Lake performance. Intel clearly has the memory controller competetive advantage. If next-gen P and E cores are even better, Intel will have a product to be reckoned with.
Micro Center has the 9950X listed at $649. Amazon and Newegg are $700+. But I also have a Micro Center less than five minutes from my residence, so if I were in the market for one, guess where I'd go?
Goodness, the 7950X3D is such a beast. It's rarely talked about in comparison to the 7800X3D, but look at those charts. It's essentially a 7800X3D when gaming, but it is actually useful when you exit the gaming application. You get everything the 7800X3D offers for games while having one of the most powerful productivity processors outside of workstations. People who bought the 7800X3D and want to do more than gaming will be incentivized to buy the new 9800X3D because of the higher clock speeds and supposedly better performance with compute outside of gaming. Someone with a 7950X3D has almost no reason to upgrade unless the 9950X3D ends up putting the 3d V Cache on both CCDs.
Why would 7800x3d users need to upgrade if you are 1440p or 4k the 9800x3d is not going to give you negligible benefits at 1440p and probably zero at 4k. Also for most things normal people do on the pc besides gaming ie. Browsing, youtube etc . The 7800x3d is just fine and nobody would know any difference between it and a cpu that is better at "productivity".
@@IRaoulDukeNo one is attacking the 7800X3D. It is the gaming king, and the choice for most buyers. The defense force doesn't have to come out. My post is for the people it applies to. Not everyone uses their PC for just gaming and light browsing, and even AMD recognizes the 7800X3D is poor outside of gaming. That's why leaks suggest there are substantially larger increases to the gains of the 9800X3D in non gaming applications than in gaming.
Jay, could any of the problems with the newly released Intel Ultra Core be related to the Chipset firmware? This Chipset Z890 is also very new, as is the LGA1851 sockets and wondering if the chipset firmware is in need of some maturity to provide better numbers and support of the Ultra Core’s. Thanks Jay, have fun in the new studio with the growing pains!
I have a 14700k and I don't game, just productivity. Quicksync is a godsend so I'm liking the news that this crushes in compute! But I will wait for at least 3 more gens for this to be perfected. Then I think I'll notice a big uplift. Overall very exciting with this all new title tech.
@@mariorepas9100 no I haven't had a blue screen stability has been perfect. Ironically I used to have a 5950 x and that would constantly give me blue screens. It's the reason why I upgraded.
That's not actually good news. You should want something better to be an option regardless. It doesn't effect you that it's worse, but you can only be more productive with something better.
With PBO on & some tweaks in Curve Optimizer & Curve Shaper, and a TjMax set at 84°C, my Ryzen 9 9950X scores 42250 points in Cinebench R23 multi-thread test.
Yesterday I got a 9950x for a new workstation. If we incentivize something we get more of it. Last thing I want to reward is the focus on efficiency over performance. Will look at Intel again when it is time to replace this one. Who knows, the best CPU in 3 years could be by NVIDIA or some new player.
Kudos. I have one too since last monday with 192 GB DDR5. I am getting outstanding performance on my Hyper-V development machines. Very nice CPU for workstation workloads.
After Intel kidded that AMD "glued together" their chips, they had to fit the tiles together to make it LOOK Like a single piece of silicon. Shame! They even stuck in a "filler" tile. Could that possibly help thermals, or is it really just cosmetic?
@@JayztwocentsBecause he has to stay calm while sharing an office with Phil. 😆. Honestly though...its because he is so calm and nice. We just want to see your guys have nice things because we like them.
The most expensive nicest build you could buy is 4-4.5k MAX. Falcon is charging a 3000 dollar premium at a minimum. That is robbery and there's no way of spinning it to make it look good.
i built my own PC with RTX 4090 STRIX MAXIMUS HERO Z790 I9 14900k 32GB RAM 7800mhz Trident upgraded to 64 GB now 2TB 990 SSD samsung 1000W PSU Razor Lian Li case AIO Lian Li 360 GA II Trinity mouse + keyboard and i got 11xLian Li top fans Therma Grizzly Thermal paste and i payed for all like 4700 EUR lol Checked their website and my PC looks 1000 times better full RGB nothing extra pff what a robbery that company is
I've never been a fan of the big/little core design. It breaks virtualization, for starters, and I use virtualization. Second, without the OS scheduling things properly, things get put on the wrong cores, and it hurts performance. I'm also not a fan of the separate CCX construction AMD went with. That also hurts performance when things get put on the wrong cores. So, I've been a big fan of the AMD big cache,single CCD designs lately. (I have a 3900X Hyper-V host for self training, but I never have VMs with more than 3 cores on it.) If MS can properly update Windows, and the Linux community update Linux, to schedule the cores right and not break virtualization, then I may consider more complex designs.
Hold on what is supposed to be broken about vm? Cause i have a core i5 with p and e cores and vms seem to work fine on unraid. But i only use a vm to run Minecraft servers
@@jondonnelly3It is that bad when it comes to x3d chips with dual CCDs. Core parking is a bugger to get working properly. Single CCD on x3d chipe is the only way to go.
Well, nice to see Falcon Northwest is continuing their 30+ year tradition of selling PCs at insane markups (like, "more than double the cost of the components" level of markup) despite their PCs not performing any better than ones that cost significantly less...how they're managing to stay in business, I'll never understand.
TechPowerUp did review using onboard igpu on 285K vs other intel and amd chips. The RTX 1060 beat them all.. 🤔 Interesting: “The ASUS Z890 Hero motherboard feeds four of the CPU VRM phases from the 24-pin ATX connector, instead of the 8-pins, which makes it impossible to measure CPU-only power with dedicated test equipment (we're not trusting any CPU software power sensors). You either lose some power because only the two 8-pin CPU connectors are measured, or you end up including power for the GPU, chips, and storage when measuring the two 8-pin connectors along with the 24-pin ATX. For this reason, we used an MSI Z890 Carbon motherboard exclusively for the power consumption tests in this review.” (Techpowerup)
Intel's move to ditch hyperthreating makes sense. I have an 8th gen i7 6-core 12 thread cpu (old laptop, life is weird ok). I do not really see those 6 extra threads doing 6 extra actual threads of work. I see them do ~30%-ish work in htop (Linux system monitoring tool). Be it games, virtual machines, compiling. This is just stating my observations These observations do make sense. What hyperthreating (HT) promises is that your CPU core can do one thing, and if it does not have the necessary data to continue, switch to another data queue. It sounds like a measure to compensate 'slow' I/O from storage and RAM. Especially when it first entered the scene, RAM and storage was so slow compared to now, you could really eek out some speed if you could optimize I/O by having two queues to park data per core. But now? We have 9000 MT/s RAM that is not ideal for AMD CPU's because the memory controller has to do weird things to keep up. The RAM is too fast for the CPU. So might as well optimize the CPU for the huge bandwith instead of the slowness of yesteryear
If Intel will not fix some strange performance issues with chipset drivers/microcode/whatever - I will buy AMD....it will be my first AMD since X2 3000 chip from Jurassic era. I was on Intel all this time since Core 2 Duo E6400. Currently I am on i7 12700k and see no reason to get 285K/265K. Very sad. :(
@@jondonnelly3 exactly. It is enough. I play 4k and gpu limited. However sims like MS FS2020/2024 would probably benefit from more CPU grunt even at 4K.
I hear ya, I'm in a similar situation, I have been sitting on my i9 9900k for a while waiting because this major change has been coming for years. Just have to wait a little while for windows scheduling adjustments and some later reviews to see if it pans out. Won't be waiting forever though, want some new toys and if AMD's 9000 series 3D stuff has it all sorted first then it will likely be time for a change.
I am a tech industry engineer, TSMC has ordered MANY tools be installed per month of which my lab has 1. Ill save details but the increase in TSMC manufacturing is global chip domination. Also not a fun place to work
Over the last 5-7 years of being quite engaged with various creators reviewing pc hardware - Jay and team remain my go-to in now only a handful of channels I follow. Respekt.
13:40 Please note that it's an 8-thread deficit not 8 cores and the 285k has 8 more cores than the 9950x and cores are waaaaaay more important than threads.
This is meant to read as constructive criticism: Could the monitors in the back be simply blank or not showing moving picture? One thing I love about the down to Earth channels, including this one, is not doing the super attention melting things like having a Minecraft run on half the screen while talking. The Heaven bench on the one screen gave me the feeling. The cinebench run didn't because it's MUCH less eye grabbing. Grain of salt, just my... TwoCents 😉
Watch GN on the power draw stuff. Literally ignore everyone else. They didn't isolate/test accurately to show the actual true efficiency (or lack thereof).
@@oliknow ?? What are you saying. Reviewers are saying the chip is efficient, in reality it is not because the other reviewers are not testing it properly, where are the lab conditions lol
@@cappyoGN literally said it's 30-40% more efficient than 14900k. That's a huge jump in efficiency for just one generation. The performance is bad, but the energy efficiency is much better.
@@orangesaturn Sorry, I worded that really badly. I meant to say "Not as efficient" as some reviewers are saying. What I wanted to say in the end is that it's not as efficient as some reviewers believe, and I wouldn't say that it is a "lab condition" but more like a not fully accurate information
I can't wait to see if you are right or wrong. I have always been an Intel. My 2020 Computer a 9600KF. in 2022... I did the beloved 5800X3D with an 6950XT. Never have I hated a computer more than everyone raves bout. For the first time I upgraded because I hated my AMD, it crashed, windows hated it, hardware/software. Today I am officially a Ultra 7 265K. I couldn't be more excited. It is too new and fresh but boy is it nice. What's sad is that i'm considering building the 5800X3D to sell just because my 9600KF is more reliable. I think Intel might have done something amazing, so I don't know if those stats really show the difference between AMD and INTEL after 2 years I would never trust the chart again.
you guys really need to update your 7950x3d and 7900x3d benchmarks if you're going to throw them in the list. A correctly setup 7950x3d matches or slightly beats out the 7800x3d in games. GN's benchmarking proved that out a while back. Heck your own video showing how to FIX the 7950x3d to get it working right is what helped me get mine working correctly!
@@OddNameGames Out of the box, the 7950x3d performs a lot better than shown in these charts. Peoples issues with not setting it up correctly have nothing to do with "out of the box". Jay did his original test on the 7950x3d WRONG. He's said he did it wrong. Which is why he made the video showing people how to fix it. GN did it right back on release and all their test show it matching or beating the 7800x3d. Long story short, you can't just swap the processors and retest. You have to do a clean install of windows or follow his "how to fix it video". He didn't do either originally.
Yeah 3rd choice in gaming, and taking 270W in powergated/bios Mode. There is altough a 85W heat loss thats sums different in gaming. Extrem expensive too. Bauer mentioned you in his review of this cpu, its about the VR-Voltage regulator. I see how you try to put this product in a good light, but its time to shorten the stocks again :)
The ~35K temperature step, at a guessed 220W difference, just tells us that Rt_ja is 0.16K/W. If the thermal path is 300mm^2, copper is 8.3K/W/m. So Rt_ja equates to 19mm of copper thickness, which is not terribly impressive from a power electronics standpoint.
Thanks for the videos, the work y'all have put in, and just wanted to say I appreciate the direction you approach videos from. Between JTC, GN, L1T, LTT, and Roman I'm able to get a good picture of the overall landscape.
So now you gotta choose between gaming-performance OR non-gaming performance. Can't have both. Considering the market is mostly adult professionals who use their PCs for both work + gaming, this poses a real dilemma. Sounds like we may need to wait another 1-2 years or so until we start getting the best of both worlds again. Looks like I'll be holding onto my 13900K for a while longer.
Off topic. I really like the new "lab" but for some reason, the stainless steel top on the work bench behind you is kinda distracting because it reflects. Maybe a cover for it. Love the videos and keep them coming.
@@b1zzler AM5 Motherboard 2025+ Better in gaming Better in allmost every single software application Better for 3D / Editing Power Consumption Stability Rendering Runs Cooler CMT / SMT SAM (if you have a all AMD build) Less Memory Latency
Technically ASML got that tech from a consortium led by the US DoE and a bunch of labs like Lawrence Livermore National labs. They licensed the tech to ASML with strict rules, which is why the US can stop ASML from selling to China. That said they were mostly worried about Japanese competition at the time and intentionally avoid licensing it to Japanese companies.
@@NickSteffen Japan still dominates in the equipment and materials needed to create the silicon in the first place; but I doubt they will be giving into China anytime soon. Japan still dominates in the resources needed to create the silicon. Also TSMC and Samsung is moving some of their factories to Japan... TSMC has one built there already.
Thanks Jay, good to see that there are actual reviewers looking into all aspects. Hope to see some Intel updates before, but im gonna go ahead with the purchase.
@@CantankerousDave That's true! I remember that! But I can't find anything on Google about it because Google is so damn bad these days. You remember which Pentium they did this for?
Great info on the new CPU, thanks for that. I see you recommend 12900K for an upgrade. How about the 14700K? Especially now that you can do the BIOS updates on day one (which I did). P.S. I am asking this specifically because last week I finished building my wife's 14700K gaming rig and I was waiting for this new CPU to upgrade my own machine. However, seeing the bad reviews on gaming with this CPU I plan to take a step back to 14700K for my own machine as well.
I am on AMD with MS 23H2. When will I get 24H2? Or do I need to force it? Reinstall MS? Seems 'criminal' that 10% performance uplift is held until a major MS update instead of the monthly cumulative fixes!
As my children would say: Just Google it. Turns out forcing is fairly easy, based on the 2 videos I watched, to force the update using the Group Policy Editor. There is also a registry edit method.
It's still being baked. Within Windows Update - Windows Insider beta channel has it. Sign and up and you can get it now and yes the whole OS feels snappier on AMD I have.
I just got my 14700K from RMA my 13700K. Running with the latest bios (intel default setting) and undervolt it a bit to be safe. Hopefully this will last a few more years, but I’m definitely switching to AMD for my next upgrade.
@@msg360 Yes at first they wanted to replace the 13700K, but I asked if I could get a small upgrade which they agreed. So far no random crashes or BSOD.
Sadly AMD dominates the average informed user market, the average uninformed person will go with Intel just because it has so much more brand recognition.
Steam Hardware Survey proposes otherwise, though I'm considering switching over to AM5 after I've really squeezed out all I can on my current LGA 1200 build
@@hacoberthejacober3345 Sadly yes. Here in China, most of my friends still think Intel over amd in gaming despite me keep telling them the wind had changed direction when Zen 3 launched. They wouldn't watch any reviews and even if they do, some reviewers are also biased for some reason.
@@ChoppedAndScrewedMusic Yeah it is. Apparently they thought it would make things less confusing but I don’t see how. The old naming scheme was Intel i9 14900k the new one is Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 😂 they removed some numbers and added words to make it “less confusing”.
The 9950x price is up because, as of yesterday only Amz (stock in single digits) and New Egg had it. Unless you could drive to a microcenter, which had them for $650. Stock seems to have improved at Amz and price is “down” to $671
jay2cents pretending to be not intel fanboy ,lol , i remember when you always said just buy intel it just works , trashed amd and reccommened intel now you switch the narritive when intel loosing hard, lol
Very disappointing from Intel they sell Z890 motherboards for gaming while the processor is not made for gaming and the old Intel processors have more fps than the new generation well done Intel you have hit rock bottom
I think HWInfo is correctly indentifying your Core as 13. It is displaying the P-cores as they are physically distributed. 2 at the front, 4 in the middle, 2 at the back. P-Core 13 is the Lucky Pierre in the mix, he gets E-core and P-core action from both sides. 0 P-core 1 P-core 2 E 3 E 4 E 5 E 6 E 7 E 8 E 9 E 10 P-core 11 P-core 12 P-core 13 P-core 14 E 15 E 16 E 17 E 18 E 19 E 20 E 21 E 22 P-core 23 P-core
I'm coming from a 10th gen (10850k) and all this 13/14th gen drama has made me wait for awhile now...I run VR games while Blender/unity is running. So I'm seeing here this CPU can handle the load and worth the price.
I have faith that Intel knows what they are doing and we are about to see some massive uplifts for the next 2 generations. I think their biggest mistake was pushing this out instead of just skipping a year. There seems to be massive headroom in this architecture. I also think that Hyperthreading was cut because they couldn't make it work on the new architecture in time for the launch and that it will be returning next gen. I am putting my money where my mouth is with some very large investments in Intel stock and plan to hold it for 2-4 years. This is Intel we are talking about. They are building a massive state of the arch facility with the backing of the government. They will make a huge come back. I fully accept the risk that I am wrong, but I am pretty damn confident that I am not. I will eat my words in a couple years if I have to.
I think people are looking at this chip in the wrong way. I bet it was a bit rushed on the driver side because it makes no sense the raw cinebench performance is so high for mid teir performance in some apps and games? It just doesn't make sense. AMD make chips for console so no wonder games run better on AMD. I think Intel needs to get these game studios to better optimize for their architecture. Same with Adobe they are tied in heavy with AMD hence why it runs better. I don't think its a CPU thing I think its a optimizing for a certain CPU. These new ARL just aren't very optimized yet but I bet once they are they will beat everything.
The third worst performing stock on the sp500 and with significant risk of actually going bankrupt or needing some sort of punitive cash injection. I invest in stock a fair bit and like to be bold where warranted but this was not looking good even before the latest cpu releases hit the market. The 13 / gen mistakes was killing them. This should have been the chip series they released then. They gave up one of their greatest USP's as a trusted brand.
This is a new line of CPUs from Intel and the focus this gen was getting the power draw down and maintaining similar performance to the 14th gen. They managed to accomplish that. The next gen will be where we see them seeing what kind of performance they can pull out of this new architecture.
I think it’s dumb at this point in the GPU Cycle for someone to purchase that $7500 system. Also for $7500 I would expect a custom loop not AIO 😂
My custom loop, that I over-spent on, was about $4500 total. $7500 is nuts, even at today's prices.
7500 better be top of the line and personally customizable if I'm spending that. That's wild.
@@wallywest2360 FWIW, back in the day, these guys were the top line because of their support and build quality. Unless something changed, that's really what you pay for. Their sXit just flat worked every time, barring some random hardware failure.
@@larracis well depending on the country (Life is good in the Tumor (USA)) it can be 7500 easy. in Canada The RTX 4090 or 5090 is $2500-2600 by itself the 7800x3d is $850. 7500 isnt that far off
It also looks like a 1000$ system you would get at bestbuy 😄😄
Falcon charging that much for a non custom loop is a joke
2024 "Brokie Statement Of The Year" award goes to 👏🏻
@@davidsmith4186
Nah hes right tho bro
Nothing should be that expensive unless you are full-on getting a SERVER type WORKSTATION bro
And the fact its just a 280 RAD is wild!
No custom loop, case looks like 100$ max, front panel is restricting air flow, looks cheap, fans look cheap, it's rather small for 600W of components inside, it's prob a hotbox. GN should get their hands on one of these.
@@ahoymateeez My guy, Google is your friend. Falcon NW has been top tier in every aspect for over a decade. That case is bespoke to them. They have thermals entirely under control. If this was iBuyPower or some SI that on that level you’d have a valid point, but they’re not. Someone seriously looking at Falcon NE is probably only cross shopping Puget Systems.
I'd hope the people buying those can write them off as business expense.
3W improvement? 600 dollars? Increased memory latency? Shut up and take my money
Thanks steve
7500 freedom dollars for 4000 of machinery and 3500 in cable management is fucking wild.
gotta pay the sponsors
The motherboard is $999, the RAM is ~$400 for 96GB 6400MT/s, the GPU if you can find one new is ~$2900, the PSU is ~$220, decent-rated 280mm AIO $105, the smallest Crucial 2tB is $265. So, I get $4,889-ish, getting nothing at a discount... doesn't make it any better at $2,611 for the case and cable management... fucking wild is right!
@@Ikadzuchi77 lol FNW aren't just throwing parts together and shipping it out the door, good lord...
@@RyTrapp0 Not the point, asking $2,611 over the parts I could buy myself is a steep increase even considering testing, their case, and 1 year warranty. I've purchased from F-NW before, their systems have always been great. This seems extreme when there's nothing truly custom about this except the case.
@@Ikadzuchi77 Then buy from a brand that doesn't do the extra work that FNW does💡 Absolutely wild concept, different products & services for different needs, expectations, and price points...
The 7800X3D went up in price again... It's now about 480 Euros. 2 Months ago it was only 330 E.
Good thing is, it’s still worth it!
welcome to amd monopoly. 10800xed will cost you 600+ euros
$850 in Canada on new egg
Paid £320 for mine last month
Yeah, and people think AMD is a good company and love us. If they could, they would make it cost 1k. 😂😂😂
So basically, wait for 9800X3D as expected, gotcha.
Or buy a 7800X3D (if you can find a good deal.. prices exploded).
@@ArticSpy man i got my 7800x3d 2 months back for 309 usd im so happy
@@pwn3426 Same, we clutched out this cpu is goated
yeah.
Some people want certain brands, stick with Chevy, vs Ford, etc. I'm on the fence with the cpu. Currently on a i9-9900k and it's handling my 4090 fully, might wait and see if it can use the 5090 fully and then upgrade next. Either 285k or 16c amd
that 3 doors down joke was my kryptonite
Sadly, Jay can't be your superman.
What a time to be alive.
That joke made me go crazy
Yeeeeeeeah
LTT, JTC and GN releasing videos at literally the same millisecond. Oh the embargos...
All my favorite tech tubers releasing at the same time 🤣 I'm here first though.
but first we watch Jay) ахаха
I wouldn't know as I only watch Jay....but UA-cam has a feature called scheduled release. You make a video and upload it to youtube and then push schedule. So if embargo is Oct24 they just click Oct24 midnight.
they also do it 1 minute after lift.
Always Jay first :)
7800X3D was a good choice it seems :)
Seems the 285K is really good at synthetic benchmark. If I was only doing that, it would be my cpu of choice.
And gets stomped on everything else including professional workloads like Adobe suite
Remember when intel threw jabs at amd for being good at synthetic benchmarks. “We care about real world performance” 😂😂😂
@@PAMAAMM Adobe has always been Intel centric!
Perfect for Userbenchmark guy
@@jeremeweatherbee1667 Fanboys are often delusional, regardless of the brand they're defending. I prefer staying neutral and just call out BS, no matter if it's AMD, Intel or Nvidia. At the end of the day, they're all just companies trying to make a profit.
The 5800X3D outperforming the 285K in almost every game is insane. Got one last Feb and put it in my 8 year old X370 board and performs brilliantly.
Only at 1080p. At 4k gaming which a lot of us do, it tells a different story. Try gaming at 1080p while recording and streaming simultaneously and it also changes things. Even at 1080p gaming, x3d and this platform are getting + 200 fps in a lot of titles. At that point I look for lower range fluctuations between lows and averages as more important plus in my case I'm monitor refresh bottlenecked.
@@bryanbowen41934K gaming is more reliant on the gpu and the 5800x3d with a 3090 or 4090 still does great with games
@@bryanbowen4193this is 2 generations and 2 steps up in the product stack. It should be FLATTENING the 7800X3D for the price and Intel's place in the market right now. The 5800X3D shouldn't even be on it's radar in any context.
@@bryanbowen4193 This
@@bryanbowen4193 who's streaming and gaming on 1 pc xD
Looks like I'll still be running a 5800X3D for a while longer...
Notting wrong with AM4, very stable platform matters more than fasters per sec blue screens.
Have the 5800x3d. Not upgrading for years to come. Literally no point.
Not like you’d switch to intel anyway
X3D just keeps winning
It is impressive how the new lab it almost looks like the old studio 👍
Iw as trying to keep is "similar" but new and designed with a flow and purpose
@@JayztwocentsI’m glad you kept the color scheme. I’m a big fan of the background colors you guys use.
Falcon must be taking the piss, those prices are insane. Anyway, I love the new setup for this filming room, especially the carousel that allows you to show all sides of the case and the benchmark, etc in the background.
Recouping bad purchase decisions for hardware, maybe? A quick price check of the parts at retail is like $4880 without any discounts. That's one hell of a huge markup!
@@Ikadzuchi77 Man hours for assembly and tax. EDIT: Not a defense, just generally why prebuilds are so expensive but yeah these two alone wouldn't explain nearly $3k price difference, maybe at most $1500 - 1700.
@@bearde_mut9731 Exactly... I understand a decent amount of markup, need to make money to stay in business, but this seems excessive for this build.
@@bearde_mut9731 When I bought new PC from local retailer, they offered free assembly and same day shipping.
im glad i upgraded in 2022 lol i remember walking into microcenter and asking for a 13900k, the guy helping quicky told me that they have a 12900k open box for $285 and i snagged it because great deal. thought i might upgrade later if i need. fast forward and i definitely dont need more compute power, 13th and 14th gen are riddled with microcode issues and 285k is only marginally better in gaming than a 12900k
Ooh nice, Have the 12900KF 4090, it's a solid gaming machine. Snagged last year on Fantastech 1 sale. We just got a Microcenter in Miami, might drive down for the next build.
Hi is it wise to buy 12400f now skipping 13400f and 14400f? I'm a casual gamer and browse mostly, i don't want the processor with issues..
I hear ya there, as in early 2023 I bought one of the Chinese Erying Mobos with an Intel Core i9 12900H CPU(yes laptop chip on a desktop MATX board) as I don't have Micro Center near me, and it does everything I need it to do under Linux, and then some, even with 32GB of DDR4 3200Mhz RAM, It's been doing me so well I'm honestly considering buying a 2nd board to replace the 2nd computer in my gameroom as whole setup would cost me less than what many of these new Intel, or AMD CPUs would.
@@JosephKarthic if you're going to buy new just go AMD. The 7500F is cheap and beats the snot out of the 12400f.
if you must buy intel I'd recommend going the used route, I've found the 12900k for under 300, I'm sure you can find a 12600k or ideally a 12700k for pretty cheap. You might even get one with AVX-512, which helps with certain applications.
@@JosephKarthic It's okay with no e cores, my mother uses one. Would consider a 7500F aliexpress also for this price point, could pair with a night devil itx or get an asrock pro rs budget board. Have gamed on 12700KF & 12900KF, I shut off e cores anyway so p cores can push boost higher. Would go AM5 if it's not costing more has upgrade path, though DDR4 is an option on the 12400F.
The 9950x was on a massive sale not too long ago. You could find it as low as $500 in some places. They definitely got massive demand from the sale, so retailers decided to get some money back from the people who missed out but are gullible enough to buy above msrp. Give it another week or two and the prices should come back down
The reason P and E cores are mixed is because they are listed in the order they are physically on the die. 2P, 4+4E, 2+2P, 4+4E, 2P
This might be the reason why many games perform so bad. The core to core latency between the P-cores is much higher.
Jay, it's a Thread deficit and actually has 8 more cores. The 9950X is only 16 Cores with 32 Threads, while the 285K has 24 Cores but only 24 Threads.
Yep, Poor look on Intel's part
Hii, can you please explain the practical differences? Does it even matter the contrasts between these two for productivity/power-users (i.e., audio production, video production, old/basic gaming, etc.)?
Gaming doesn't really use more than 8c/16t configured CPUs. Considering that there is a thread deficit, the workload task results are quite impressive if you ask me.
@@tj_2701 Fr. Gamers can use pretty much any PC, it really matters not which specs nowadays for 90% of non-psychotically-demanding contemporary titles. Any lower mid end, middle mid end, or (if you really are in that 0.1% of extreme gamers) the upper mid end will do. High end? No point; you'll never see the ebenfit let alone actually use it.
Meanwhile, musicians, programmers, audio engineers, and video production benefit massively from higher end PCs and often benefit way more from high clock speed than abundance of cores. Rather get a 5.8ghz CPU with only a few cores than 100 cores running at 3.2ghz....as a musician. Gamers _prefer_ cooler running, more efficient PCs; productivity users on the other hand NEED both of these aa givens, in addition to stability.
Even for productivity, of you take a look at code compile, compression/decompression the 285k is weak af. There are much better reviews than this one...as usual.
I'm just watching these videos to get warm and fuzzy feelings about my 7800X3D.
We be winning 🥇
@@samurai2beast307 shit, I'm still winning with a 5800X3D
You done good, brother. Keep on winning.
@@SAVikingSA I know, your cpu is still a monster compared to the shit we got
I'm using this praise to ease the pain of that full price purchase at launch. My computer was way past its expiration I couldn't wait.
It's amazing how different your review of this is compared to the AMD 9000 series launch. It's very balanced about saying what the processor does better and what it does the same or worse and seemed to really work to highlight why you might want one rather than just trashing it the entire time because it didn't have a huge gaming uplift. If this is a conscious change in methodology due to the feedback you received on those reviews, job well done. If it wasn't a conscious change to the way you do reviews though, you might want to watch your own videos back to back and consider what biases you might have that are coming out in your reviews.
The p core e core arrangement isn't random. It's based on how they're arranged on the die
Was going to post this same comment but you are correct
Being one of those crazy Skyrim/Fallout modders, I have noticed that big cache makes a world of difference because of the older Creation Engine "I hate multicore" coding. I am really wondering how these will fare vs 13900/13700. Draw calls. Nothing but draw calls...
Waiting for the AMD 9950 x3d stats to see how it performs.
LTT is directing people to your channel for more in depth review , I think that's cool of them😮
All I'm getting from these testing and new releases is that the AMD 3D CPUs are just insanely good
for gaming.
@@jondonnelly3 it's good for productivity as well, if you care about price/performance/efficiency... Yeah sure, if you don't care about gaming _at all_ 3D makes less sense even within just the AMD lineup. But that's mostly because you pay extra for the 3D, not because it's it's not a solid performer for productivity.
@@nagranoth_ Nah just for gaming. 7800xd3 is a one trick pony.
@@thetheoryguy5544 7950x3d exists
I was waiting for 285k do replace my 12900ks, but i will keep it until next gen, Thanks a lot for this video
Am on 12900KF, it's still solid for my gaming use case (might be fine a good 3-5 years) but likely going AM5 X3D when the time comes to leave. Runs really well paired with 4090 and 48gb DDR5, very smooth. Am sure there is better but it hasn't felt unpleasant to game on yet, raids like a champ.
Rumors there will be no next gen until 2026 if you can wait?
It will depend, when and how i will play GTA VI, only this game will tell, all the games i played until now, full detail, 1440p and 100+ fps worse case,my monitor is 165, 32”.
So far, I have seen nothing to suggest I should upgrade from my 13th Gen CPU. Unless it melts down in the meantime [unlikely, IMO], I'll be hanging on to it for a few more years.
Same here my 13700 is still an absolute beast compared to most cpus. Plus the new socket mobos cost alot
@@LuccianoNova Good point. If my 13th Gen _has_ been damaged, as long as the new BIOS/microcode actually works, replacing it is far easier and cheaper than basically buying a whole new CPU and Mobo combo.
Same but 12900KF 4090 48gb DDR5 on Linux. I think if anything is to be upgraded there was some smoothness gain in ram kits lower CAS and adding more ram. But I don't really need more ram. Just would be one place people could spend without going to another platform. I'm not sure but maybe the damaged CPU would work at lower clock/ram speeds. Have 3 12th gens in my household did a lot of BIOS updates but would go AM5 if a few years down the road a new build is required, still feel burnt by the time spent tuning machines but it's stable. Can always replace with RMA/12th gen or core lock the new chip. I disable the e cores gaming and turbo boost, would crash games for me.
Same I have a 13900k (253w) with a 420mm Arctic Freezer 2. 67°C with taps into 68°C in cinebench. Kryonaught paste no mount platform.
And ASML is above all of them providing the machines, yet Intel is the only company that has bought the latest generation of lithography machine while tsmc is waiting. This is probably a temporary solution while Intel is preparing to up their fab game significantly.
Exactly - people complaining about prices (understandably) should realise that it's currently due to a monopoly of these high end process nodes by TSMC and ASML, who are charging what they want. Ironically, ASML's latest financials looked poor since everyone else is so far behind, they are having reduced sales and so not being able to afford as much of the latest lithograph...
I think TSMC said that the throughput on the latest ASML machines would increase per-chip production costs, so that they would never see a benefit in terms of profit. They make more sense for Intel, which have fallen too far behind and may be desperate.
@@fpadams i think that is true yes, the machine is still not fully refined. As long as they can keep making chips with the current gen they will keep doing it. They already proved they can stretch existing technologies A LOT, as we saw with 193nm machines during the intel stagnation days.
Intel just halted construction at a fab in Germany. Intel is bleeding money. Those timelines for nodes aren't gonna be kept.
@@christoskaragiannis7973 samsung has access to the same tech yet struggles similar to intel
Intel hasn't been right since the 5800X3D. /s
AMD's AM4 having a few generations of backwards compatibility has tremendous bang/buck for consumers. Intel necessitates that you toss out your old motherboard and cause more landfill waste.
The people that are in charge of intel the last ten years and the people that were in charge of Mitsubishi in the 2000's should be barred from touching a business for the rest of their lives. Screwing a good situation up that bad almost seems intentional, its almost too bad to be real.
You can add Stellantis of today in that list, as well.
@@MadClowdz indeed
@@MadClowdz IBM
@@MadClowdz Yes Stellantis deciding to turn Chrysler group into a high margin luxury brand, great idea... and those guys in the late 90s and early 2000s put the "BM" in IBM with their outsourcing and selloff to lenovo..
@@MadClowdz ah man i worked at a dodge dealership when Fiat bought into them and it become FCA, THAT shit was a DISASTER. the whole Chrysler group is one big screw up over and over.
This guy needs to stop shilling falcon northwest so hard. No pc is worth 7500$. Like wtf??
I was wondering the same!
What he calls "bonkers" is absolute nonsense. Raid 0 on three (!) SSDs. SSDs are nowadays fast enough. Most of the time it's almost idling, and if installing or loading a game, or whatever, it might peak at 100% for a short while, but if on load, it is maybe between 10% and 30%. And that is (here) with a PCIe4 SSD! So the advantage for faster reading is negligible. And the " " nice " " thing - if just ONE of the THREE SSDs dies - ALL your data is GONE.
so that 19000MB/s (which is theoretical, PCIe5 SSDs are KNOWN to produce way more heat, and throttling down!), the real world gain is next to non existent.
Even if considering all highend parts, plus 200 for the case, I am still missing at least 3k to reach the 7,5k.
And many OEMs charge around 400, not 4000. eek!
You mention the temp drop at the end of the test as being an indication of the efficiency of the 285k..... yet in the next slide we see the 14900 doing the exact same thing. Test ends, temps drop almost steaight to 40c
I think you're trying to find 285k praise points where there's just typical CPU behaviour when on a AIO and having only done a 10 minute workload.
The performance uplift from Win11 23H2 to 24H2 is likely due to the fact that it’s a complete re-install of the OS with hard links to your apps & data. There are no enablement packages for 24H2.
Jay, the ultra 285k actually has 50% more physical computational cores than something like the 9950x, but less threads.
You need to stop saying the 285k is doing more with less cores when it has significantly more. As the distinction does sort of matter.
You've got a point but it also gets more difficult making a meaningful distinction when you throw E cores into the mix.
@@Qalibrated I guess kind of.
Though I would see it more that Intel's 'E-Cores' are really more just what AMD use as standard in all their standard CPUs.
Cores that are designed to be much more power efficient, but with lower performance headroom as a result.
As that's how AMD have approached Ryzen since inception. They started off with low clock speeds where each core could barely break 3.6Ghz but had solid power efficiency, where as at the time Intel were pushing high performance low power efficiency CPUs with cores clocking 5Ghz+.
And then AMD reiterated on the architecture over and over again as they matured the design approach to try gain the performance from their power efficiency centric core design.
Ryzen CPUs are the rough equivalent of if Intel shipped CPUs with just 'E-Cores' and not a single 'P-Core'.... just several generations more matured.
Now how things will look if AMD start to broaden their application of the P/E Core concept beyond the limited use compact/mobile CPU designs, we'll just have to wait and see.... but with how power efficient whilst still standing toe to toe on performance AMD have things at the moment, frankly I doubt they feel any pressure to start rolling out 'Higher performance lower power efficient' cores any time soon, so we'll likely just see them pushing a mix of even more power efficient cores purely for compact/mobile platforms exclusively.
Happy to see the new offices Jay. Lets hope this positive move and your health improvements all make the next 12 months the best ever. Looking forward to seeing your reviews and antics.
TLDR: Arrow lake adds more platform features & NPU, while stagnant/regressed in performance uplift.
I'll obviously be waiting for the 9800X3D benchmarks in a few weeks, but what's really interesting to me as someone looking for the next upgrade being able to address both gaming and productivity (probably like 60/40), it's making me take another serious look at the 9900X for a more balanced experience. It won't command quite as high prices as the 9950X, 9950X3D, or ICU 285K. I've been using a B350 board from Ryzen 1700X to 3700X to 5900X, and while I wanted to give Intel a shot this time...maybe a 9900X with some fast DDR5 is going to be a better bet for my next upgrade? Going to be interesting to see how things play out over the next month or so.
Thumbnail said everything 🤣
HWInfo is not random, it's how the Cores are placed on the Die.The E-Cores are between P-Cores to spreak the temperature better. 13th/14th gen had a block of P-Cores and a block of E-Cores.
A $7500 system!!!! Holy Crap, that is 3 months of mortgage payments! Is that really a system for testing??
Not out of touch with the average consumer at all...
Exactly. The $2600+ markup from retail pricing going by their component selection is insane, and you know they sure didn't pay retail!
I mean if you're gonna test something you want to be able to press it to the limits right? Now as a normal consumer... Naah
@@tobbcittobbcit8899 Exactly. To push the new CPUs, for sure, go for the craziest build. For the rest of us, nope.
Mostly a Windows problem, though. Here it is from an expert....not ME.
Here is Josh-level speak from Level 1 Techs on why Arrow lake is not as good as it should/could be..."Intel needs user land hooks in OS schedulers in Windows, it is already a thing in Linux.
APO is a FIRST STEP, but SHOULD HAVE BEEN THERE three generations ago!
'It's not just a scheduler problem though, it's different geometry in the system"
Linux is our canary in the coal mine, to see how much Windows can improve Arrow Lake performance.
Intel clearly has the memory controller competetive advantage. If next-gen P and E cores are even better, Intel will have a product to be reckoned with.
We need timestamps Jay!!!
why? 285k is no good, get 1700
@@uhohwhy no lol. Just buy a x3d CPU
@@fallenlegion1828 Yeah.....not spending $500 on a CPU.
Micro Center has the 9950X listed at $649. Amazon and Newegg are $700+. But I also have a Micro Center less than five minutes from my residence, so if I were in the market for one, guess where I'd go?
Goodness, the 7950X3D is such a beast.
It's rarely talked about in comparison to the 7800X3D, but look at those charts.
It's essentially a 7800X3D when gaming, but it is actually useful when you exit the gaming application.
You get everything the 7800X3D offers for games while having one of the most powerful productivity processors outside of workstations.
People who bought the 7800X3D and want to do more than gaming will be incentivized to buy the new 9800X3D because of the higher clock speeds and supposedly better performance with compute outside of gaming.
Someone with a 7950X3D has almost no reason to upgrade unless the 9950X3D ends up putting the 3d V Cache on both CCDs.
Why would 7800x3d users need to upgrade if you are 1440p or 4k the 9800x3d is not going to give you negligible benefits at 1440p and probably zero at 4k. Also for most things normal people do on the pc besides gaming ie. Browsing, youtube etc . The 7800x3d is just fine and nobody would know any difference between it and a cpu that is better at "productivity".
@@IRaoulDukeNo one is attacking the 7800X3D. It is the gaming king, and the choice for most buyers.
The defense force doesn't have to come out.
My post is for the people it applies to.
Not everyone uses their PC for just gaming and light browsing, and even AMD recognizes the 7800X3D is poor outside of gaming.
That's why leaks suggest there are substantially larger increases to the gains of the 9800X3D in non gaming applications than in gaming.
Jay, could any of the problems with the newly released Intel Ultra Core be related to the Chipset firmware?
This Chipset Z890 is also very new, as is the LGA1851 sockets and wondering if the chipset firmware is in need of some maturity to provide better numbers and support of the Ultra Core’s.
Thanks Jay, have fun in the new studio with the growing pains!
I have a 14700k and I don't game, just productivity. Quicksync is a godsend so I'm liking the news that this crushes in compute! But I will wait for at least 3 more gens for this to be perfected. Then I think I'll notice a big uplift. Overall very exciting with this all new title tech.
am5 is the answer
just go ahead and get it. 14700k, board and ram easy to sell on.
How is the stability of your system? Do you ever get blue screens? I've heard mixed reviews
@@mariorepas9100 no I haven't had a blue screen stability has been perfect. Ironically I used to have a 5950 x and that would constantly give me blue screens. It's the reason why I upgraded.
That's not actually good news. You should want something better to be an option regardless. It doesn't effect you that it's worse, but you can only be more productive with something better.
With PBO on & some tweaks in Curve Optimizer & Curve Shaper, and a TjMax set at 84°C, my Ryzen 9 9950X scores 42250 points in Cinebench R23 multi-thread test.
Yesterday I got a 9950x for a new workstation. If we incentivize something we get more of it. Last thing I want to reward is the focus on efficiency over performance. Will look at Intel again when it is time to replace this one. Who knows, the best CPU in 3 years could be by NVIDIA or some new player.
Kudos. I have one too since last monday with 192 GB DDR5. I am getting outstanding performance on my Hyper-V development machines. Very nice CPU for workstation workloads.
@@audiodemos2579what chipset? I keep flipping between x870 and z790 for new lab build
@@moogs X870E for AMD. Z790 is for Intel LGA1700 CPUs
Please leave things like "Three Doors Down" in edits like this lol . Funny just because of how unexpected and random that was
After Intel kidded that AMD "glued together" their chips, they had to fit the tiles together to make it LOOK Like a single piece of silicon. Shame! They even stuck in a "filler" tile. Could that possibly help thermals, or is it really just cosmetic?
In theory shorter distances means lower latency between tiles. The filler tile is probably there to even out the mounting pressure from coolers.
Great review, once again :) But bongers me thou is that "8 core deficit" you mention a couple times. It's a 8 thread difference to be precise.
Nick needs a 5090 and his own mini fridge
Why?
and a 2010 toyota corolla, burgundy in color
@@Jayztwocents its nick's account!
@@wolveric0with manual windows and transmission.
@@JayztwocentsBecause he has to stay calm while sharing an office with Phil. 😆. Honestly though...its because he is so calm and nice. We just want to see your guys have nice things because we like them.
The most expensive nicest build you could buy is 4-4.5k MAX.
Falcon is charging a 3000 dollar premium at a minimum. That is robbery and there's no way of spinning it to make it look good.
i built my own PC with RTX 4090 STRIX
MAXIMUS HERO Z790
I9 14900k
32GB RAM 7800mhz Trident upgraded to 64 GB now
2TB 990 SSD samsung
1000W PSU
Razor Lian Li case
AIO Lian Li 360 GA II Trinity
mouse + keyboard
and i got 11xLian Li top fans
Therma Grizzly Thermal paste
and i payed for all like 4700 EUR lol
Checked their website and my PC looks 1000 times better full RGB nothing extra pff what a robbery that company is
I've never been a fan of the big/little core design. It breaks virtualization, for starters, and I use virtualization. Second, without the OS scheduling things properly, things get put on the wrong cores, and it hurts performance. I'm also not a fan of the separate CCX construction AMD went with. That also hurts performance when things get put on the wrong cores. So, I've been a big fan of the AMD big cache,single CCD designs lately. (I have a 3900X Hyper-V host for self training, but I never have VMs with more than 3 cores on it.) If MS can properly update Windows, and the Linux community update Linux, to schedule the cores right and not break virtualization, then I may consider more complex designs.
"It breaks virtualization" - that is 100% intentional. intel wants you buying xeon processors for vms.
Yeah I bought a 9950x for that reason. The double CCX is really not that bad and it's here to stay.
Hold on what is supposed to be broken about vm? Cause i have a core i5 with p and e cores and vms seem to work fine on unraid. But i only use a vm to run Minecraft servers
@@jondonnelly3It is that bad when it comes to x3d chips with dual CCDs. Core parking is a bugger to get working properly. Single CCD on x3d chipe is the only way to go.
The ideal cpu for you is clearly the 7800X3D. I myself am getting a 12900k avx-512 enabled for cheap and disabling the E cores.
Well, nice to see Falcon Northwest is continuing their 30+ year tradition of selling PCs at insane markups (like, "more than double the cost of the components" level of markup) despite their PCs not performing any better than ones that cost significantly less...how they're managing to stay in business, I'll never understand.
I was really hoping Intel wanted to make a statement after Raptor Lake, man was I wrong
It did energy efficiency.
If they don't start failing like 13th and 14th gen, that's some kinda statement, I guess.
TechPowerUp did review using onboard igpu on 285K vs other intel and amd chips. The RTX 1060 beat them all..
🤔 Interesting:
“The ASUS Z890 Hero motherboard feeds four of the CPU VRM phases from the 24-pin ATX connector, instead of the 8-pins, which makes it impossible to measure CPU-only power with dedicated test equipment (we're not trusting any CPU software power sensors). You either lose some power because only the two 8-pin CPU connectors are measured, or you end up including power for the GPU, chips, and storage when measuring the two 8-pin connectors along with the 24-pin ATX. For this reason, we used an MSI Z890 Carbon motherboard exclusively for the power consumption tests in this review.”
(Techpowerup)
Simpler solution than Gamer’s Nexus monster power monitoring. They saw some weird things in the power details by doing the monitoring, however.
Jay and Intel in love again.
Well I mean he makes content to not just all gaming.
Intel's move to ditch hyperthreating makes sense. I have an 8th gen i7 6-core 12 thread cpu (old laptop, life is weird ok). I do not really see those 6 extra threads doing 6 extra actual threads of work. I see them do ~30%-ish work in htop (Linux system monitoring tool). Be it games, virtual machines, compiling. This is just stating my observations
These observations do make sense. What hyperthreating (HT) promises is that your CPU core can do one thing, and if it does not have the necessary data to continue, switch to another data queue. It sounds like a measure to compensate 'slow' I/O from storage and RAM. Especially when it first entered the scene, RAM and storage was so slow compared to now, you could really eek out some speed if you could optimize I/O by having two queues to park data per core. But now? We have 9000 MT/s RAM that is not ideal for AMD CPU's because the memory controller has to do weird things to keep up. The RAM is too fast for the CPU. So might as well optimize the CPU for the huge bandwith instead of the slowness of yesteryear
If Intel will not fix some strange performance issues with chipset drivers/microcode/whatever - I will buy AMD....it will be my first AMD since X2 3000 chip from Jurassic era. I was on Intel all this time since Core 2 Duo E6400. Currently I am on i7 12700k and see no reason to get 285K/265K. Very sad. :(
Yeah 12700k is plenty, unless your gaming at 1080p on 4090 on 300Hz monitor or something crazy. X3d for that.
@@jondonnelly3 exactly. It is enough. I play 4k and gpu limited. However sims like MS FS2020/2024 would probably benefit from more CPU grunt even at 4K.
I hear ya, I'm in a similar situation, I have been sitting on my i9 9900k for a while waiting because this major change has been coming for years. Just have to wait a little while for windows scheduling adjustments and some later reviews to see if it pans out.
Won't be waiting forever though, want some new toys and if AMD's 9000 series 3D stuff has it all sorted first then it will likely be time for a change.
I am a tech industry engineer, TSMC has ordered MANY tools be installed per month of which my lab has 1. Ill save details but the increase in TSMC manufacturing is global chip domination. Also not a fun place to work
Over the last 5-7 years of being quite engaged with various creators reviewing pc hardware - Jay and team remain my go-to in now only a handful of channels I follow. Respekt.
Jay & Team are good and I watch every video but for the real deal on hardware reviews you use gamers Nexus.
Hardware unboxed was a channel I used to go to. But they have a specific audience they cater to so I guess it's okay
13:40 Please note that it's an 8-thread deficit not 8 cores and the 285k has 8 more cores than the 9950x and cores are waaaaaay more important than threads.
Bro I’m 41 and even I barely got the 3 doors down reference
That’s your age group I’m 41 too
I caught it right away, but I am in my early 50s :)
Well, they suck, so I didn't catch it. year younger 😂
@@chillnspace777 kryptonite super man song was played on every radio station. So unless you lived under a rock
This is meant to read as constructive criticism:
Could the monitors in the back be simply blank or not showing moving picture? One thing I love about the down to Earth channels, including this one, is not doing the super attention melting things like having a Minecraft run on half the screen while talking. The Heaven bench on the one screen gave me the feeling. The cinebench run didn't because it's MUCH less eye grabbing. Grain of salt, just my... TwoCents 😉
Watch GN on the power draw stuff. Literally ignore everyone else. They didn't isolate/test accurately to show the actual true efficiency (or lack thereof).
uh yeah sure but nobody watching these channels will use it under lab conditions. watching other channels for a normal usecase is not wrong
@@oliknow ?? What are you saying. Reviewers are saying the chip is efficient, in reality it is not because the other reviewers are not testing it properly, where are the lab conditions lol
@@cappyoGN literally said it's 30-40% more efficient than 14900k. That's a huge jump in efficiency for just one generation. The performance is bad, but the energy efficiency is much better.
Hardware Unboxed did test properly too, he used a different motherboard setup instead
@@orangesaturn Sorry, I worded that really badly. I meant to say "Not as efficient" as some reviewers are saying. What I wanted to say in the end is that it's not as efficient as some reviewers believe, and I wouldn't say that it is a "lab condition" but more like a not fully accurate information
I can't wait to see if you are right or wrong. I have always been an Intel. My 2020 Computer a 9600KF. in 2022... I did the beloved 5800X3D with an 6950XT. Never have I hated a computer more than everyone raves bout. For the first time I upgraded because I hated my AMD, it crashed, windows hated it, hardware/software. Today I am officially a Ultra 7 265K. I couldn't be more excited. It is too new and fresh but boy is it nice. What's sad is that i'm considering building the 5800X3D to sell just because my 9600KF is more reliable. I think Intel might have done something amazing, so I don't know if those stats really show the difference between AMD and INTEL after 2 years I would never trust the chart again.
you guys really need to update your 7950x3d and 7900x3d benchmarks if you're going to throw them in the list. A correctly setup 7950x3d matches or slightly beats out the 7800x3d in games. GN's benchmarking proved that out a while back. Heck your own video showing how to FIX the 7950x3d to get it working right is what helped me get mine working correctly!
The whole point of these comparisons is to show out-of-box performance. The same reason overclocking or CUDIMM DDR5 results are not included
@@OddNameGames Out of the box, the 7950x3d performs a lot better than shown in these charts. Peoples issues with not setting it up correctly have nothing to do with "out of the box". Jay did his original test on the 7950x3d WRONG. He's said he did it wrong. Which is why he made the video showing people how to fix it. GN did it right back on release and all their test show it matching or beating the 7800x3d. Long story short, you can't just swap the processors and retest. You have to do a clean install of windows or follow his "how to fix it video". He didn't do either originally.
@@kendil22 if the results he’s showing here are still using the bad tests, then yes you’d be correct that they need to be adjusted.
Yeah 3rd choice in gaming, and taking 270W in powergated/bios Mode. There is altough a 85W heat loss thats sums different in gaming. Extrem expensive too. Bauer mentioned you in his review of this cpu, its about the VR-Voltage regulator. I see how you try to put this product in a good light, but its time to shorten the stocks again :)
The ~35K temperature step, at a guessed 220W difference, just tells us that Rt_ja is 0.16K/W. If the thermal path is 300mm^2, copper is 8.3K/W/m. So Rt_ja equates to 19mm of copper thickness, which is not terribly impressive from a power electronics standpoint.
Thanks for the videos, the work y'all have put in, and just wanted to say I appreciate the direction you approach videos from. Between JTC, GN, L1T, LTT, and Roman I'm able to get a good picture of the overall landscape.
So now you gotta choose between gaming-performance OR non-gaming performance. Can't have both. Considering the market is mostly adult professionals who use their PCs for both work + gaming, this poses a real dilemma. Sounds like we may need to wait another 1-2 years or so until we start getting the best of both worlds again. Looks like I'll be holding onto my 13900K for a while longer.
with that being said I'm on an I7 9700k. what intel chip should I move up to within the 7. or should I just wait?
@@dextercampbell796i7 12700 good value and decent, look into it 🙂
Off topic. I really like the new "lab" but for some reason, the stainless steel top on the work bench behind you is kinda distracting because it reflects. Maybe a cover for it. Love the videos and keep them coming.
not for gamers AND not for professionals
what advantage does the 9950x have for professionals?
@@b1zzler doesn't necessarily need a new motherboard.
@@b1zzler
AM5 Motherboard 2025+
Better in gaming
Better in allmost every single software application
Better for 3D / Editing
Power Consumption
Stability
Rendering
Runs Cooler
CMT / SMT
SAM (if you have a all AMD build)
Less Memory Latency
@@letssmiletogether5463+1 SAM also if using Intel ARC GPU
This reminds me when Intel was beaten by Intel. Back in 2021, when the 10900K was beating the 11900K.
The tech needed for TSMC to make their chips come from Japan and Holland
I think you mean the Netherlands? Holland is a province of the Netherlands.
Technically ASML got that tech from a consortium led by the US DoE and a bunch of labs like Lawrence Livermore National labs. They licensed the tech to ASML with strict rules, which is why the US can stop ASML from selling to China. That said they were mostly worried about Japanese competition at the time and intentionally avoid licensing it to Japanese companies.
@@RoycoNL Still can be called Holland; both are correct
@@NickSteffen Japan still dominates in the equipment and materials needed to create the silicon in the first place; but I doubt they will be giving into China anytime soon. Japan still dominates in the resources needed to create the silicon. Also TSMC and Samsung is moving some of their factories to Japan... TSMC has one built there already.
3 watts down? If I go crazy from GPU prices, will you still call me Superman?
Man, really feeling good about getting my 7800x3d for $300 last black Friday.
same her cept 2 months ago for 309 USD
That'd definitely looking like a hell of a deal right now. :)
Thanks Jay, good to see that there are actual reviewers looking into all aspects. Hope to see some Intel updates before, but im gonna go ahead with the purchase.
A year from now, Intel will be selling a hyperthreading "upgrade" download for these chips, just $250.
no, it will be a subscription
@@arizona_anime_fan Ha!
Ah.... Tarkov prices....
You joke, but they did have a hardware dongle on one of their many platforms a few years back that unlocked more threads or something.
@@CantankerousDave That's true! I remember that! But I can't find anything on Google about it because Google is so damn bad these days. You remember which Pentium they did this for?
Great info on the new CPU, thanks for that. I see you recommend 12900K for an upgrade. How about the 14700K? Especially now that you can do the BIOS updates on day one (which I did).
P.S. I am asking this specifically because last week I finished building my wife's 14700K gaming rig and I was waiting for this new CPU to upgrade my own machine. However, seeing the bad reviews on gaming with this CPU I plan to take a step back to 14700K for my own machine as well.
I am on AMD with MS 23H2. When will I get 24H2? Or do I need to force it? Reinstall MS? Seems 'criminal' that 10% performance uplift is held until a major MS update instead of the monthly cumulative fixes!
As my children would say: Just Google it. Turns out forcing is fairly easy, based on the 2 videos I watched, to force the update using the Group Policy Editor. There is also a registry edit method.
It's still being baked. Within Windows Update - Windows Insider beta channel has it. Sign and up and you can get it now and yes the whole OS feels snappier on AMD I have.
It's got issues, don't force it. Wait for it to be fixed
I downloaded the iso from microsoft and installed it manually
Reminds me of the 80's, if you want to crunch data you get a IBM if you want graphics you get a Apple. AMD for games and Intel for productivity.
Before Phenom there were Athlon 64 X2 CPUs... launch date was May 2005 just like Pentium D.
I had one of those back in the day, the 5200+. A decent cheap way to make Oblivion and CSS less laggy.
Congrats with the new lab!
I just got my 14700K from RMA my 13700K. Running with the latest bios (intel default setting) and undervolt it a bit to be safe. Hopefully this will last a few more years, but I’m definitely switching to AMD for my next upgrade.
did intel suppply you with that 14700k?
@@msg360 Yes at first they wanted to replace the 13700K, but I asked if I could get a small upgrade which they agreed. So far no random crashes or BSOD.
@@tomygun196 that’s cool
Love the new studio Jay. This new rakish desk angle is also 😚🤌🏼
Haven't touched an Intel product since 3rd gen, 2012. Can't see that changing. AM4 has dominated the avg user market imo.
Sadly AMD dominates the average informed user market, the average uninformed person will go with Intel just because it has so much more brand recognition.
Steam Hardware Survey proposes otherwise, though I'm considering switching over to AM5 after I've really squeezed out all I can on my current LGA 1200 build
My best friend just went from an i7 3770 to a R7 7800x3d
@@hacoberthejacober3345 Sad to admit, but that's true.
@@hacoberthejacober3345 Sadly yes. Here in China, most of my friends still think Intel over amd in gaming despite me keep telling them the wind had changed direction when Zen 3 launched. They wouldn't watch any reviews and even if they do, some reviewers are also biased for some reason.
Great video Jay! Thanks for always being honest and keeping us informed. Keep up the great work!
285K ?!
What is that?
the new 14900k
Basically 15900k
Intel rebranded their lineup. It's now the Core Ultra series. The 245k is basically the i5, the 265k is basically the i7 and the 285k is the i9
@@heatnup
So weird lol
@@ChoppedAndScrewedMusic Yeah it is. Apparently they thought it would make things less confusing but I don’t see how. The old naming scheme was Intel i9 14900k the new one is Intel Core Ultra 9 285k 😂 they removed some numbers and added words to make it “less confusing”.
The 9950x price is up because, as of yesterday only Amz (stock in single digits) and New Egg had it. Unless you could drive to a microcenter, which had them for $650. Stock seems to have improved at Amz and price is “down” to $671
Well lets see if its any good. Although they're going to have to win back some trust.
I think this was the best review I watched today! I watched several. Good work Jay. 😎
jay2cents pretending to be not intel fanboy ,lol ,
i remember when you always said just buy intel it just works , trashed amd and reccommened intel now you switch the narritive when intel loosing hard, lol
Exactly, hes trying to lessen the damage slightly by using sweeter words.
Very disappointing from Intel they sell Z890 motherboards for gaming while the processor is not made for gaming and the old Intel processors have more fps than the new generation well done Intel you have hit rock bottom
I think HWInfo is correctly indentifying your Core as 13. It is displaying the P-cores as they are physically distributed. 2 at the front, 4 in the middle, 2 at the back. P-Core 13 is the Lucky Pierre in the mix, he gets E-core and P-core action from both sides.
0 P-core
1 P-core
2 E
3 E
4 E
5 E
6 E
7 E
8 E
9 E
10 P-core
11 P-core
12 P-core
13 P-core
14 E
15 E
16 E
17 E
18 E
19 E
20 E
21 E
22 P-core
23 P-core
I'm coming from a 10th gen (10850k) and all this 13/14th gen drama has made me wait for awhile now...I run VR games while Blender/unity is running. So I'm seeing here this CPU can handle the load and worth the price.
I have faith that Intel knows what they are doing and we are about to see some massive uplifts for the next 2 generations. I think their biggest mistake was pushing this out instead of just skipping a year. There seems to be massive headroom in this architecture. I also think that Hyperthreading was cut because they couldn't make it work on the new architecture in time for the launch and that it will be returning next gen.
I am putting my money where my mouth is with some very large investments in Intel stock and plan to hold it for 2-4 years. This is Intel we are talking about. They are building a massive state of the arch facility with the backing of the government. They will make a huge come back. I fully accept the risk that I am wrong, but I am pretty damn confident that I am not. I will eat my words in a couple years if I have to.
I think people are looking at this chip in the wrong way. I bet it was a bit rushed on the driver side because it makes no sense the raw cinebench performance is so high for mid teir performance in some apps and games? It just doesn't make sense. AMD make chips for console so no wonder games run better on AMD. I think Intel needs to get these game studios to better optimize for their architecture. Same with Adobe they are tied in heavy with AMD hence why it runs better. I don't think its a CPU thing I think its a optimizing for a certain CPU. These new ARL just aren't very optimized yet but I bet once they are they will beat everything.
The third worst performing stock on the sp500 and with significant risk of actually going bankrupt or needing some sort of punitive cash injection. I invest in stock a fair bit and like to be bold where warranted but this was not looking good even before the latest cpu releases hit the market. The 13 / gen mistakes was killing them. This should have been the chip series they released then. They gave up one of their greatest USP's as a trusted brand.
New studio looks nice!
Maybe "The Judging Room"? "The Room Of Broken Hype and Promises"? "The Place Where Marketing Campaigns Come To Die?"
This is a new line of CPUs from Intel and the focus this gen was getting the power draw down and maintaining similar performance to the 14th gen. They managed to accomplish that. The next gen will be where we see them seeing what kind of performance they can pull out of this new architecture.