I think you are wrong about Fistweaving being forgotten. In 10.1.7 Ancient Teachings got a 15% buff. They also have been nerfing a ton of AoE healing across all healers, so Ancient Teachings and Awakened Fayline getting no nerfs, speaks volumes to me. I think those abilities evading nerfs is good news for Fistweaving.
If Blizzard gave caster MW a way to deal damage I'd be over the moon with 10.2 MW. I saw someone suggest adding functionality to TFT to be able to use it to make EF do a load of damage.
@RifeGaming true. I think a big issue with talents builds like fistweaving vs caster weaving is that one excels at damage and the other doesn't hardly bring any. So the obvious choice is to bring the one that can dps as well as keep the group alive. I feel like the same is going to be even more true with priest healers next season
I would rather have had them make schism the spell that transitions you into darkness since it would also play with the word as well and just have baked shadow covenant into schism. Maybe when you used it it would hit you would get the damage buff but it would also proc an aoe heal and put you into shadow form.
TL;DR: They're augmenting the need of the Augmentation Evoker... Joking aside, kudos on your analysis, it's the first one that I see that's really thorough and not a simple "read out loud" kind of update. I can also only give my opinion with the class I main, which is Resto Shaman: Shaman's skill tree have a load of bloat points, we deserve a rework Paladin style, many talents they got are great with only one point to take. Chain Heal is dead due to mana needs (Mana Spring for instance was already awful and now it's dead - Resourgence was excellent and now won't be worth). Unfortunately, it seems RShaman are going towards been a lesser version of Resto Druid in 10.1.7, praying for Rejuvs spreads... Feels awkward to say the least. I'll leave my Tier Set thoughts to your next video, looking forward to it!
Oh god yeah RShaman main here too, the tree is a godamn mess. So SO many talents that are 2 points (and give 0.5% healing per point, not a joke you can check on WoWAnalyzer) AND some that require 4 (pwave). They maybe don't understand a 45sec cd on a healer spell is AWFUL because you feel like you have to save it for a big burst but also we need to keep them on cd to have any throuhput and there's nothing worse than saving it for a burst of cd then the Evoker just blooms the raid for several million. But as for the 0.5% per talent point, can we sort that out please? When you see Hpally getting choices that mean something and we have like 7 dead nodes that are zero picks in every situation and not enough talent points for everything that we want to build towards. I get that you can't have everything but we spend so much in the first section (also a 2 point talent node problem, looking at you deluge. They need to add more stuff that buffs riptides in, like extra duration or increases the hot or same healing in less time. And add stuff that buffs chain heal, extra bounces, more healing on certain bounces, free ones every time you drop a totem, %crit every time HR heals someone, adding a cd to CH but vastly increasing the healing it does. Like REALLY consider adding a cd to most aoe spells so that healers go back to single target healing and then blasting an aoe heal WHEN required as opposed to just spamming aoe heals and feeling punished for pressing a single target heal. And they never un-nerfed Wellspring like wtf, we loved that ability (seriously pick any random Shaman and ask them if they thought WS was one of our favourite spells and the answer would be YES). I get it they are nerfing aoe spells for this patch BUT THE TWENTY SECONDS CD ON THE SPELL ALREADY SOLVED THIS PROBLEM. The spell did up to 60% the healing of Wild Growth for Druids and had DOUBLE THE CD before the nerf. It literally didn't deserve to be kneecapped. Druids on the other hand....
disc... its like society. lets play to the common lowest demotivator. Instead of encouraging people to push forward we dumb it down to allow the masses to play it.
I was just starting to get used to Disc, really not a fan of the changes to disc, they literally could have kept it the same and just buffed atonement healing for M+ and it would have been a lot more managable for the masses. Not a fan of the removal of Lights Wrath either, loved it in Legion and loved playing around with it in raids, yeah uppies looks better but I felt like the specs lost something great. Now I was by no means a good disc but I have been considering a jump to it for a main for a while (Rshaman mainly and that spec is hot garbage) so I'm mixed about the changes. If they wanted to nerf the difficulty of the spec they could have just increased the ways of applying atonements quickly. And kept the rotation the same. Nerfing Harsh Discipline to be random chance is beyond retarded. NO HEALER LIKES RANDOMNESS LET ALONE ONE BUILT AROUND RAMPING.@@RifeGaming
"Primordial Wave that nobody liked playing anyway" Wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong. A LOT of Shamans didn't like it at the start but the more you play with it and the better you time it, the more rewarding it becomes. It basically plays like a ramp class where you have to have RT on exactly the right targets and then cheese it to land a big pwave on the group. It doesn't require half of that now that there are more riptides out so it's a lot easier to use for people who can't predict damage. I was a big Red Chain Heal enjoyer in SL but I've fully come round to the pwave playstyle. But yeah your comments about the rest of the spec are spot on. One thing to note that it's even worse than what you point out because not only are we just "spot healing" but we are "spot healing" on ONLY TARGETS WITH RIPTIDE. So we are literally being told to keep the set bonus up even if we are only doing overhealing on those targets.
I would have let Schism be it's own button, Mind Blast having such a long cooldown makes Discipline soooo boring Remove Power Word: Life or Mindgames if you want to remove the button bloat
"I don't think globally nerfing healers to solve a problem with mythic raid healing is a wise solution. I also don't think it will work particularly well. 4 Healers in a 20 man Mythic raid who all coordinate their 10+ CD's and minmax their throughput will always require bursty damage patterns to challenge. " I do disagree with this statement though. And it goes back to Theuns video, we took a LOT longer to heal people to full in CN and that was a LOT more fun than this spike everyone up to 80% AT LEAST or they die to the next ability. Lords of Dread and Rygelon were great fights because damage was constantly happening. Chunk people by 20-30% and it doesn't have to be raid wide. But these HUGE chunks of damage with light ticking dots in between is such ass for classes like Rshaman and perfect for classes like Rdruid as hots are the solution to both.
It is strange, you get a bloated talent tree and they are telling you about freedom of choice. Then your main gets those new talents and you are forced to take grove guardians, as overall your healing gets nerfed by 6% because of that new talent. Furthermore you are forced to run this talent, if you want to benefit from your tier set. The nerf on flourish is so unnecessary. The only real cooldown in m+ for heavy healing throughput bosses. I hope those little dudes make up for it. What me scares more is about the nerfs to resto shaman, especially also mana wise. I only run m+ with this healer and I am more forced to sit down and have sip/nip on drink/mage food, because I run out of mana. Whereas as resto druid I only have mana issues, when I need to pump hard because of affix, dps mishaps or heavy heal checks on certain bosses on tyranical. I doubt that will solve the healer shortage in m+.
I think you are wrong about Fistweaving being forgotten. In 10.1.7 Ancient Teachings got a 15% buff. They also have been nerfing a ton of AoE healing across all healers, so Ancient Teachings and Awakened Fayline getting no nerfs, speaks volumes to me. I think those abilities evading nerfs is good news for Fistweaving.
it got buffed by 11% not 15%, it went up from 135% to 150% which is a 11,1% increase
I like the misweaver changes. I dont raid, though, and dont enjoy fistweaving over caster, so i got what i wanted, i guess lol.
If Blizzard gave caster MW a way to deal damage I'd be over the moon with 10.2 MW. I saw someone suggest adding functionality to TFT to be able to use it to make EF do a load of damage.
@RifeGaming true. I think a big issue with talents builds like fistweaving vs caster weaving is that one excels at damage and the other doesn't hardly bring any. So the obvious choice is to bring the one that can dps as well as keep the group alive. I feel like the same is going to be even more true with priest healers next season
I would rather have had them make schism the spell that transitions you into darkness since it would also play with the word as well and just have baked shadow covenant into schism. Maybe when you used it it would hit you would get the damage buff but it would also proc an aoe heal and put you into shadow form.
TL;DR: They're augmenting the need of the Augmentation Evoker...
Joking aside, kudos on your analysis, it's the first one that I see that's really thorough and not a simple "read out loud" kind of update.
I can also only give my opinion with the class I main, which is Resto Shaman:
Shaman's skill tree have a load of bloat points, we deserve a rework Paladin style, many talents they got are great with only one point to take.
Chain Heal is dead due to mana needs (Mana Spring for instance was already awful and now it's dead - Resourgence was excellent and now won't be worth).
Unfortunately, it seems RShaman are going towards been a lesser version of Resto Druid in 10.1.7, praying for Rejuvs spreads... Feels awkward to say the least.
I'll leave my Tier Set thoughts to your next video, looking forward to it!
Oh god yeah RShaman main here too, the tree is a godamn mess. So SO many talents that are 2 points (and give 0.5% healing per point, not a joke you can check on WoWAnalyzer) AND some that require 4 (pwave). They maybe don't understand a 45sec cd on a healer spell is AWFUL because you feel like you have to save it for a big burst but also we need to keep them on cd to have any throuhput and there's nothing worse than saving it for a burst of cd then the Evoker just blooms the raid for several million.
But as for the 0.5% per talent point, can we sort that out please? When you see Hpally getting choices that mean something and we have like 7 dead nodes that are zero picks in every situation and not enough talent points for everything that we want to build towards. I get that you can't have everything but we spend so much in the first section (also a 2 point talent node problem, looking at you deluge. They need to add more stuff that buffs riptides in, like extra duration or increases the hot or same healing in less time. And add stuff that buffs chain heal, extra bounces, more healing on certain bounces, free ones every time you drop a totem, %crit every time HR heals someone, adding a cd to CH but vastly increasing the healing it does.
Like REALLY consider adding a cd to most aoe spells so that healers go back to single target healing and then blasting an aoe heal WHEN required as opposed to just spamming aoe heals and feeling punished for pressing a single target heal.
And they never un-nerfed Wellspring like wtf, we loved that ability (seriously pick any random Shaman and ask them if they thought WS was one of our favourite spells and the answer would be YES). I get it they are nerfing aoe spells for this patch BUT THE TWENTY SECONDS CD ON THE SPELL ALREADY SOLVED THIS PROBLEM. The spell did up to 60% the healing of Wild Growth for Druids and had DOUBLE THE CD before the nerf. It literally didn't deserve to be kneecapped. Druids on the other hand....
@@Theparadoxd7 adding a CD to most aoe spells is actually a good idea!
I also miss Wellspring, it was awesome indeed
disc... its like society. lets play to the common lowest demotivator. Instead of encouraging people to push forward we dumb it down to allow the masses to play it.
All so Discs can have an easier ramp in raids. I hate it.
I was just starting to get used to Disc, really not a fan of the changes to disc, they literally could have kept it the same and just buffed atonement healing for M+ and it would have been a lot more managable for the masses. Not a fan of the removal of Lights Wrath either, loved it in Legion and loved playing around with it in raids, yeah uppies looks better but I felt like the specs lost something great.
Now I was by no means a good disc but I have been considering a jump to it for a main for a while (Rshaman mainly and that spec is hot garbage) so I'm mixed about the changes. If they wanted to nerf the difficulty of the spec they could have just increased the ways of applying atonements quickly. And kept the rotation the same.
Nerfing Harsh Discipline to be random chance is beyond retarded. NO HEALER LIKES RANDOMNESS LET ALONE ONE BUILT AROUND RAMPING.@@RifeGaming
Been waiting to hear your opinion on these changes. I'm confused to the direction they're trying to take regarding M+.
"Primordial Wave that nobody liked playing anyway" Wrong, wrong wrong wrong wrong. A LOT of Shamans didn't like it at the start but the more you play with it and the better you time it, the more rewarding it becomes. It basically plays like a ramp class where you have to have RT on exactly the right targets and then cheese it to land a big pwave on the group. It doesn't require half of that now that there are more riptides out so it's a lot easier to use for people who can't predict damage. I was a big Red Chain Heal enjoyer in SL but I've fully come round to the pwave playstyle.
But yeah your comments about the rest of the spec are spot on. One thing to note that it's even worse than what you point out because not only are we just "spot healing" but we are "spot healing" on ONLY TARGETS WITH RIPTIDE. So we are literally being told to keep the set bonus up even if we are only doing overhealing on those targets.
I would have let Schism be it's own button, Mind Blast having such a long cooldown makes Discipline soooo boring
Remove Power Word: Life or Mindgames if you want to remove the button bloat
"I don't think globally nerfing healers to solve a problem with mythic raid healing is a wise solution. I also don't think it will work particularly well. 4 Healers in a 20 man Mythic raid who all coordinate their 10+ CD's and minmax their throughput will always require bursty damage patterns to challenge. "
I do disagree with this statement though. And it goes back to Theuns video, we took a LOT longer to heal people to full in CN and that was a LOT more fun than this spike everyone up to 80% AT LEAST or they die to the next ability.
Lords of Dread and Rygelon were great fights because damage was constantly happening. Chunk people by 20-30% and it doesn't have to be raid wide. But these HUGE chunks of damage with light ticking dots in between is such ass for classes like Rshaman and perfect for classes like Rdruid as hots are the solution to both.
It is strange, you get a bloated talent tree and they are telling you about freedom of choice.
Then your main gets those new talents and you are forced to take grove guardians, as overall your healing gets nerfed by 6% because of that new talent. Furthermore you are forced to run this talent, if you want to benefit from your tier set.
The nerf on flourish is so unnecessary. The only real cooldown in m+ for heavy healing throughput bosses. I hope those little dudes make up for it.
What me scares more is about the nerfs to resto shaman, especially also mana wise. I only run m+ with this healer and I am more forced to sit down and have sip/nip on drink/mage food, because I run out of mana. Whereas as resto druid I only have mana issues, when I need to pump hard because of affix, dps mishaps or heavy heal checks on certain bosses on tyranical.
I doubt that will solve the healer shortage in m+.
Just......oof.
not listening to all this i bench 250
Post evidence