My opinion on Smashbox's legality
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- Опубліковано 19 гру 2016
- Just sharing my opinion on the Smashbox legality discussion.
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No control will beat the DK bongos.
DDR pad is a close second though
Noah T.A i agree
I'll take your DK bongos and raise you the resident evil 4 chainsaw controller.
I'd go for the just dance karaoke mike
don't forget DJ hero controller for the nintendo Wii
Fuck it, I'm still gonna use the Wii Wheel as my controller, banned or not
I want to see this now
I'm pretty sure the Wii Wheel is legit banned tho
I thought all controller mods were banned, wait, does that mean I can also use the Wii Racket and N-Zap in Smash? That's awesome!
i94Rules wireless controllees are banned for the most part to due to the hastle of having to sync to the console, etc.
DA WHEEL? YOU THERE?
I think part of the drama here is from some of the most spotlighted opponents and proponents having TERRIBLE FUCKING ARGUMENTS. On one end, you've got Hitbox Dustin going "it's just good stuff guys, I can't believe anyone is resisting this, what the hell?" On the other end, you've got Blur going "the movements you make on a Gamecube controller are just what it means to play Melee and everything else is wrong and that's that." Which are both just mind-numbingly stupid things to bring up in a debate. When I _do_ see people bring up genuinely objective arguments on both sides, I just find myself favouring its legality over and over again. I'm willing to have my mind changed, but I'm really yet to see an argument that does that.
MockRock - Smash Bros and More i feel like a lot of the debate is kind of split because if the smashbox is allowed, then all controller mods should be legal, and vice versa. I personally think that it is a good controller and should be legal, but only if the community makes specific guidelines for controller mods to make the playing field even. Because allowing this controller mod could lead to a bunch of others which may not be fair. The match will mostly come down to skill, but things like stages, character matchups and controllers still matter
games are made based on their restrictions...what makes melee techs so impressive and fun to watch is their difficulty. remove that and the game loses its soul, when you play melee and you decide to go for a difficult option you take a risk. if you remove that risk you remove the reward from it. precision is also a skill...i like precise shit, i dont see any objective reason why we should remove the precision requirements of the game.
why not remove the reaction time requirements of the game and make it a turn based game?
and no this is not an objective argument...do you know why im not even trying to make an objective argument? because were talking about a game...games are essentially a set of rules that humans create for themselves. there is no objective reason why you should/shouldnt use your hands in soccer...and there is no objective reason why you should/shouldnt use the smashbox. we subjectively make up the rules in order to have fun.
also here is a much much more objective argument than "the smashbox helps with hand health".
not playing the game at all helps with hand health. thats a more objective argument(because remember nothing is truly objective by virtue of how your reality is really just what you interpret of reality and not neccessarily reality.) but its fucking stupid right? thats because this is about your subjective prefferences and nothing else.
DIVAD291 a) Gamecube controllers inherently don't reward precision because of their own inconsistency.
b) "The game loses its soul" isn't an argument. I say the game loses its soul if you pick a blue skin because blue has no soul. Think that sounds ridiculous? Prove me wrong.
MockRock - Smash Bros and More even if they are inconsistent...they still reward precision more by virtue of being analog inputs.
b) did you seriously not read my post? why bother responding if you didnt read it?
or maybe youre just trying to annoy me? why?
if you dont want to have a serious argument i dont mind but just say that so we can move on.
DIVAD291 Precision will still be demanded from this box. It's not easy-mode auto-input 3DS street fighter or something. It's just removing joy sticks.
See MvC community or SFV for examples. Players use both boxes and controllers. See Knuckledu and SnakeEyes. The tech is still demanded either way, such as linking and countering, etc.
I rather use the Mario Party Mic
Amateur, good luck beating me with my Dk bongos.
Vladimir Chavez why not the nes classic controller?
Why not a Guitar hero drumset?
why not a wii fit balance board?
nah man, its the steel battalion controller is the best for smash
Should it be legal? Yes. Will it catch on? No.
Should it be legal? No. Will it catch on? Maybe.
Tristan Dalton why shouldn't it be legal?
Brave HearteGuy It's a controller with higher potential that is too expensive for the average player to afford. The idea that the meta might reach new heights is flashy, but you shouldn't want it to reach new heights because some players bought a 300 dollar hitbox that made shield dropping a series of button inputs not a rigorously impressive and masterful hand motion. this applies even more so with pivot tilts. I'm a falco and marth main, believe me if you make a controller with pivot up and down tilts, it will be breaking the spacing game.
Somekids pay 400 dollars for a arcade stick. That expensive excuse is bullshit
Rafael Gayon the argument that some kids can afford it is bs. There should never be something that costs $400 that is able to give a clear advantage. It should never be allowed because not all players are in a position where they can drop $400 on smash.
I'm not entirely sure if adding the Smashbox is good or not, but the way I see it, it's sort of illogical to ban it right away. We could give it the customs treatment, let it be legal for a couple months to a year and see how it turns out.
It is still better than not allowing it at all
Electrix 272 people are going to whine and complain either way I don't see the problem here.
A controller peripheral doesn't automatically make you a god at the game, anyone who's switched to an arcade stick knows that. Same with the smash box.
Sidenote; That thing is going to fucking destroy your hands
CRYSTAL_CLEAR100 that profile pic tho
Arcade sticks use different hand muscles so yeah
The controller is just like a keyboard and I know that many people would rather use a video game controller.
You kinda lose all respect if you actually have porn as an icon so..
*Sharp inhale*
Random Nom not really... that is irrelevant
This is just like what happened with osu!
The default contoller is a mouse and so new players use a mouse to get used to the game. But when they develop in skill and become more competitive they'll purchase a tablet in order to improve further. There are still players that are competitive with a mouse but they a few and far between.
This is not a bad thing, in fact everyone that purchases a tablet is relieved when they do because of the increased comfort and flexibility it provides (after using a mouse for 100 hours or so)
Your community should embrace this controller as a stepping stone of improvement, as without a tablet, osu! professionals would be alot rarer.
wacom.com/-/media/wacomdotcom/images/products/pen-tablets/intuos-comic/gallery/cth490b_galleryimage_1_600x600_emea.jpg?h=600&la=en&w=600&hash=BF7F563C1B023E0CD9D7D02C8993A8328494DB13
The before mentioned tablet
SilicalNZ except some things are impossible with this controller like most of the over 200 fire fox angles in melee.
real men tap with the tablet like if it was elite beat agents
and then get their ass kicked when anything harder than 3 stars shows up
Actually if you start combining tablet tapping with keyboard tapping that playstyle becomes incredibly good later on allowing you to play stupidly high bpm maps. Its called Tapx
Also could be compared to people switching from clicking with mouse to keyboard, I know there was a guy that changed his mouse clicks to z/x with a program and then it got added to the base game
And then someone tries to recover as Fox and the entire concept gets thrown out the window
lmao
what about ness? or pika
smashbox allows more consistency with inputs, 20XX is almost here boys
Broserade not the way i see it but what do i know
well see if 20XX foxes can do a "mew2king angle"
Mango Nation: "Actually, it's a mangle"
Cedric Wong mangle is when you angle when you dodge and m2k angle is the original name for angles
mangle is different than a m2kangle
I'm sorry, but if we're seriously considering banning a control scheme for being POTENTIALLY better at this point, the Smash community really has just become too ban-happy. There's not objective advantage with this controller that makes it probably better. It's not like it includes a turbo or macro button. You're doing the exact same inputs, just exclusively with buttons. It's not short-cutting anything.
Evo let a guy play with a PS1 controller because he wanted to and he won. No one's talking about banning PS1 controllers.
This weird idea that the game HAS to be controlled THIS EXACT WAY especially with a controller that Nintendo WILL stop making eventually is just ridiculous. At that point, you're just enforcing things just to make sure nothing ever changes in the meta again.
honestly the smash community isn't good. rude people, memes, and bans are what its made up of.
theres a difference between a game created around using fight sticks/other controller schemes, and a game where a wholly different third party creates a fight stick for the game. Because the game was not built with the fight stick in mind there is a very good chance that it will be either objectively worse or better than the other controller methods. At which point everyone will have to buy/avoid a fight stick if they want to be competitive.
Keep in mind that the guy using the ps1 controller is the one person vs the tens of thousands that use fightsticks. Not to mention that he has been using that ps1 controller for over a decade straight while Zangief's(his original main character) moveset has remained relatively unchanged until 2016; that is not a good example of successful alternative controller usage since it requires excessive time to reach that level.
its not about meta is about one player having a clear advantage over the other because of ease of input. If its easier to pull of crazy combos on the fightsticks then it might not be a good if the creators made the difficulty of the combos rely on the controller scheme being harder to use. A good comparison might be using lower weighted gloves than your opponent in boxing, . The volume, material, brand, style of the gloves may be the same but that small change in glove weight gives an objective advantage to one opponent as its easier to throw certain punches.
Again the big difference to focus on is that the game was not built for fightsticks, just like a boxing match rules was not created around opponents using differently weighted gloves. We need time and testing to see if there is an unfair advantage before anything is allowed or banned.
I think they should probably be allowed for everything but melee since melee has such a large focus on technical execution.
reasly dutchmans
I mean, fair, but it's not like the majority of fighting game players own fight sticks either. They're a pretty big investment and a lot of people do just use controllers. It's true for MOST of competitive, but hell. We have players that still use wii-mote and nunchuk.
It's not like this controller is going to be the best for everyone, and I don't believe there's any reason to believe that EVERYONE is gonna have to learn it. People really did say the same thing about Bidou... and they didn't.
There's also another interesting problem here in that the controllers people play smash on are LEGITIMATELY at risk of going extinct. So, another 5 years down the line, keeping only one controller setup for melee may actually kill the game just because of how cost prohibitive it is to enter. The things were already getting around 50 bucks a pop before Nintendo did the re-release, and the game series is more popular than ever.
But yeah. If the controller isn't using macros and is still requiring the same number of button prompts AND it has the extra advantage of lessening injuries, I think it's ridiculous to try to discount the thing immediately. It's basically just a different way of doing the same exact thing, and I don't think the box is objectively better since you lose a LOT of control over your control stick in the process. Some advanced techs may become easier, but perfectly angled fox fires to the ledge are gonna be a nightmare. It WILL work for some players though, and it'll open up possibilities.
So, I really do think it's genuinely silly to talk about banning it before it's even tried.
DairunCates well said, you're absolutely right about it being ridiculous to discount it asap when it address so many issues and at face value gives no clear advantages/disadvantages
I think Im going to start stocking up on gamecube controllers now that you mention extinction. Garage sale hunting time!
I left solely on the community and honestly it needs to change.
Arcade sticks are fine with just about every other fighting game, why not smashbox?
Matt Fletcher they're not used to it, and the community doesn't like change. I mean, how many Melee elitist still attack players for playing smash 4? It's the same community and they're always bickering
Jewlz Cartagena I think thats the vocal minority tbh. We have plenty of players who play both Sm4sh and Melee, and they clearly each have pros and cons.
It has to do with how the Smashbox has analog to digital conversion. The biggest problem that I have with it is that the analog to digital conversion allows a pretty much broken amount of SDI in melee that is practically physically impossible to perform on a gamecube controller. It basically creates a situation where the controllers that people use aren't equal enough.
I don't know how much of an effect the Smashbox would have in Smash 4, but in Melee, the SDI advantage would break so many combos it isn't even funny. This sort of starts the conversation of what sort of controller modifications are allowed and that's a whole other thing.
Because smash isn't a fighting game :^)))))
Replacing buttons with buttons is fine. Replacing "left on the analog stick" with a button is an issue. simple as that
Smashbox should be legal. Getting it won't make you a god, and it will help out players with injuries. There's no real advantage, skill will always win. It's not like you're playing a different character, just using a different controller
Rad Tad that’s just not how it works though lol
Rad Tad I get what you are saying, but that’s the biggest problem with cross play right now. They don’t want to do full cross play because of controller vs mouse and keyboard.
Rad Tad Yes, but people need to get used to the controllers in the first place. They can be really skilled in Smash until they’re forced to play with controllers they’ve never used.
It would actually be VERY easy to make a controller which is suitable for players with injuries and offers no advantage. Contrary to the video, the wrist actually faces no problems with current control methods. The thumbs are what faces the problems. Keeping the right side of the smashbox and changing the directional buttons for a conventional fighter stick shape with analogue input would make for a controller usable with thumb injuries yet with no advantages.
Also there is a problem with society saying that everyone needs to be able to do everything, even at the detriment of others. Since having bone cancer I've got constant knee pain and can no longer manage just about any sports. As someone who did high level athletics among other sports I would be one of the most disadvantaged by the idea that not everyone should be able to do everything. But its fine, I stopped athletics, I found other things I was capable of, and I continued with life. I can still have a hobby, hell I can still do a number of sports in a non-competitive fashion. However detrimenting everyone else wouldn't be the way to do it, and frankly not being able to do one hobby out of the millions around isn't really the end of the world anyway.
@@olivialambert4124 There's society saying everyone should be able to do everything, even at the cost of others, and there's sports, like football,that causes injuries to players and officials mandating and creating new technology to offset those injuries. This controller could be one of the technologies designed to help reduce injuries. Melee Fox is known for causing physical issues, so why not design something better. Hax can't play for this reason. M2K should've gone to the doctor.
at the end of the day fundamental knowledge of the game and it's mechanics will always win. doesn't matter how consistently you can do whatever technique, if you don't have the knowing of when or where to execute it.
basically, it should be legal because it doesn't provide any clear cut advantage over other apparatuses. the level of execution is still there and it's not being done automatically via macro so I seriously don't see the big deal. especially when hitbox products are used for other games such as marvel, street fighter, tekken, soul calibur, etc.
Completely agree Pryce.
Nate blumentritt, how do you even know that?
Have you seen leffen practice in top shape?
He does not miss a single tech for like 10 minutes.. it's fucking bananas.
But in games you fuck up, because of nerves.
The smashbox does not cure fucking nerves.
The gods of meele can do everything like this already AND consistently.
The smashbox in my view is for people who like me have damaged hands.
oh and you think someone can just become as good as armada, leffen, hbox by using a different controller?
Hahahahaha
the big deal is that compared to other FGs melee requires much greater precision when using a stick. marvel, streetfighter, tekken and soul calibur convert analog inputs to digital ones by default, such that an analog and a digital input are functionally identical to the game. being able to precisely dictate how your stick is angled makes no difference.
Melee however uses analog inputs, and has around 16 different analog stick regions in shield and and standing position alone, at least one of them 1/256th of the stick traverse across, with the shield drop angle being around 3/256ths across. Being able to input those regions accurately is a huge part of tech skill which the smashbox (and other analog to digital conversion controllers) does by default.
and occasionally being lucky/unlucky, plus jank, mis-inputs, reads etc...
Nick Q People think that fighting sticks for Street fighter and other fighting games makes you more consistent.
Yet people still play with regular xbox controllers and win.
It's the way you play it. and how you use it.
Not the controller.
if the smashbox becomes objectively superior to the gcn controller, than it should be banned, no question.
But then the problem occurs, what do people do if they spent time rebuilding muscle memory and now have to give it away? Do they quit smash, or spend time learning GC controller again thus possibly suffering worse tourney results?
If you get the smashbox I think that's a risk you have to be aware of
Why?
"locked behind a high price" It isn't mandatory
By that logic wouldn't you ban all controllers except the nintendo 3ds for smash 4 since all the other controllers are objectively superior to it?
If Liffey can win SFIV on a PS1 controller, then this stick is fine.
You forgot that the Smash community likes to build a wall around their competitive scene and bans anything for making a slight change in the metagame
Viewtiful Z uhh what in smash games has been banned that would change the meta game? (Excluding brawlmk and smashb0xx)
@@Valenvy the smash community is easily the worst community.
@@Riskofrain527 That doesn't answer my question in the slightest.
If it's legal, then how would would be able to control recoveries that require specific directions. Like Shiek's up b and Fox's firefox?
LevelUpGaming yes I wondered the same, won't it prohibit angles?
LevelUpGaming Maybe pressing the buttons at the same time, like Up-Left or something similar
LevelUpGaming Button pressure maybe? Or how long after the initial button press you press the second one. I can see Pikachu and Greninja's recoveries becoming problems, though
LevelUpGaming Look at the SmashBox trailer
Yeah I looked at the trailer, looks pretty difficult.
I personally feel that MSC should be the law of smash or something. This guy would make great laws and he's a very flexible guy.
M2K should be lawmaker ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
RecordToDeath ICS would be banned
Not everything needs laws
"third party controller" theres your answer.
Lincoln Nordquist yes i did lmao
cool Wow you two sure are laughing a lot LOLLLLLLLLL
That's one of the stupidest things I've ever read.
Name one other competitive game that bans all third party controllers.
Questorium OOOOO Good point
WELCOME TO THE LAUGH CONTEST IM LAUGING BECAUSE MY CAPS LOCK BROKEROLF LOL ROFL LOL JAJAJAJAJAJA HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
I didnt even know it existed, but I'd legalize it
LEGALIZE IT
If it requires the same amount of time and patience as mastering the default controls or Bidou then I think it should be fine for tournament play.
Seems to havea much higher learning curve. Just to get the different fire fox angles you need to learn and memorize so many different inputs.
still probably easier than actually doing those inputs on a controller.
DIVAD291 firefox angles?
Like putting your stick in the direction you want to go lol?
thunderruler1999 yeah because inputing an exact direction sure is easy.
DIVAD291 you point the stick where you want to go? Yes its easy
its like play on keyboard?
(joke)
it is techincally... you could space out your keyboard just like these buttons. they're all digital buttons.
You were kidding, but you're not really that far off. People who play fighting games on a keyboard are often recommended to take a look at the hitbox since they're fairly similar.
Fin0fLenster IMO I like using digital buttons, and using my right hand to control, even though I'm right handed
Actually, you're right.
Yes
are you reading from a script. You keep pausing after random words
it kinda adds emphasis Ya know?
Zachariah Jose it just sounds different from his other videos
im 2cool4you pretty sure he reads from a script in every single video lol
I think if anything, this is the only video where he DOESN'T have a script. The pauses would be him thinking, and in his normal videos there are no pauses because he is simply reading. Though if I had to bet I would say that he is using a script in this video just like all his others and this one is just edited less. Could be wrong though.
Metacomet that makes sense. It's just different then normal
Is there any chance you could do more countdown videos, as well as matchup guides?
I think it'll be the same thing as bidou. It's probably better, but most players have years upon years of experience and muscle memory with their controller and won't be willing to switch
If smashbox is legal for smash 4, zero's prediction that ryu is the best character will be true
Justin Hazel except how do you do ryu's input attacks with smashbox? 🤔 we need a special smashbox for ryu when 20SF arrives
I honestly couldnt care less if the arbitrary rules ban the smashbox, I hope it gets funded so players can have fun with it casually
My only gripe with this controller is that you're restricted to 45 degree angles for the analog stick. I secondary Luigi in PM and Melee so wavedashing further is a huge bonus. Shield Dropping will also be harder or impossible from what I've seen. Other than that, I don't see anything necessarily wrong with it. Really, the only thing it has going for it is the easier tech, but it also makes other tech less effective or impossible. To be completely honest, switching to the SmashBox won't be an upgrade. Just stick to the regular GameCube controller and it will be much easier in the long run.
Mashing would also be near-impossible. Free pummels for days.
Ah. I guess it just means that you need to work harder for certain functions in return for others being easier.
dude you can shield drop on a smashbox way easier than a gc controller just saying
***** I don't think EVERYONE has put notches in their controller. I know plenty of people who haven't done that or just don't know how so that's a very broad inaccurate statement.
***** Okay but that isn't everyone this still affects the large majority of players more than the pros.
I never even heard of Smashbox until this video. It looks very interesting and I like to see it be legal.
(MY RAMBLE FROM ESAM'S VIDEO)
Let's get this out of the way. The Smash community HATES any kind of change, once something becomes set or standard they don't won't to ever touch it again. (Things like bidou, 2 stock or 3, customs, stages, controllers, and to some extent wobbling).
NOW, onto the Smash Box. This would be a very good thing for the Smash scene for various reasons.
1. LONGEVITY
This product can keep Smash relevant and productive for a long time. The Game cube controller, while a nice controller for short durations and more "lax" games for the hands, is not ideal for fighting games (especially for a game where the hands have to do hundreds of inputs in about 10 seconds) and can cause severe hand problems (ex. M2K). And the GC controller is becoming limited in resources, there was the sudden increase in controllers due to Sm4sh but they're still limited. When an analog stick goes out, you're screwed, nothing you could do and have to buy a new GC controller as its hard to come by new or decent condition analog sticks. The Smash Box effectively nullifies both problems as they aren't nearly as taking on the hands (evident by how long the FGC has use arcade sticks and can keep playing with relatively no problem) and that all the buttons can easily be replaced with arcade standard buttons. (You can get a set of like 10 for about $6 and they last a good amount of years)
2. NEW PLAYERS
Some people can't play Smash because of the GC controller and how it's set up, being used to arcades where there's a specific layout to buttons, where players could have a finger on almost every main button and can freely move around where on the GC they have to move their entire hand to make a couple inputs. With more controller options, opens up the door for more players to come in and play which could introduce new players to let's say top 36-top 8.
3. LEGALITY
If the S-Box is just a GC controller but in a different format then what's the problem? If anything, veteran players would have to completely RELEARN how to play Smash because the controller is so radically different than what they used before. Like with bidou, you'd have to spend weeks to months retraining your hands and mind to reap a few more benefits than what the standard control schemes allows. If we allow mods on our controllers to make specific angles and inputs easier then why is this an issue, especially since the modifications on GameCube controllers don't require players to relearn how to play to get these benefits.
4. THE FGC
Now this is more of a comparison with a community that spawned the Smash scene and how they handle controllers and modifications to said controllers. After tournaments started to revolve around home ports of fighting games, they have essentially allowed any and all types of controllers as long as there weren't any type of major mechanical modification (macros and so on). The most recent and we'll known is when Luffy won USF4 EVO 2014 with a PS1 controller. Smug which is considered to be the BEST Dudley player in USF4 with some of the most taxing and specific combos in the game uses an Xbox 360 pad, and while it is a good controller, it is not meant for fighting games as the D-pad is horrendous. Brolylegs (which actually played Melee and Brawl and was fairly decent at the game considering his disabilities) is the best USF4 Chun-Li and among the best in SFV Chuns and he uses his FACE and an extremely limited hand to play. Controllers have never been an issue with the standard FGC because they realize how important it is to have a diverse row of set ups and ways to play to keep the competitive scene relevant and varied, the winner (let alone top 6) of EVO or any other bigger competition is almost always different each year, while with Smash it seems to almost always be the same or relatively similar each year.
That's most of my 2 cents, this ramble has been long enough and I just find that all this drama over a different way to play a game is dumb and excessive.
First off, the Smash Box uses buttons to move your character Vs. Arcade Stick, an actual a joy stick. It wouldn't translate say KOF or SF players into Smash. Primarily, games like Tekken or P4U series use 4-Button A B C D or 6-Button for tiered normals in SF for speed, damage or utility for motion special moves. The Smash Box is no where near an Arcade Stick, the bottom of your palms rest where the Smash Box places the ->C-Sticks "Buttons"Directional Pad "Buttons"
DuckSwayBobWeave That is true, originally Hit Boxes didn't have nearly as many buttons as the S-Box but it can still serve as a way to introduce new players into Smash that played fighting games on different controllers. (I know some people that use a computer keyboard to play Melee on Dolphin and they use a keyboard for other fighting games).
All I'm trying to say is that the competitive Smash scene should allow this and potentially more controllers, if they aren't modded to hell to where you could click a button to pull of a full combo (kinda like in KOF 94 had for console ports).
LinkedChief My input had nothing to do with the legality of Smash Box; it was about the video comparing it to an Arcade Stick set up and concept. I replied to your comment to dodge the UA-cam comment void. The console ports won't make it to competitive with the arcade set up, no tournament would allow anything for a 1-button combo.
LinkedChief you can literally buy analog sticks online and replace your old ones
LinkedChief we’ll you are being a bit unfair changing one thing in smash has a huge change that’s like casual players being mad at not having items in competitive you seem like someone who thinks poke floats and the fzero stage should be legal
How do you do an up tilt in melee with that? You can't slowly tilt the stick upwards and you can't turn off tap jump or use tilt stick...
The Gucci smart toilet is clearly the superior control scheme.
Looking back at this, this is just playing smash with a keyboard
My only issue is that it's pretty much a keyboard with arcade cabinet buttons, and I'm pretty bad with both of those
it only needs a bit of practice
it was frustrating for me to learn tap jump off but I got used to it eventually
Unrelated Question, should i be using tilt stick or smash stick for playing marth in sm4sh? I've tested him out with smash stick and tilt stick, but prefer smash stick as i like having pivot up smash and easier pivot fsmashes as i play a decently read heavy Marth. Should i give tilt stick another chance, or not?
Well I might just not have enough knowledge about the controller but it begs the question, how do you walk and preform tilts? especially in Melee where there is no way to turn off tap to jump. Are the buttons pressure sensitive or something?
"it sems to be a split between people who like it and people who dont and people who dont know" lol
I'm still waiting for the day where someone finds a way to play on the DDR: Mario Mix dance pad...
Ha....ha...ha HAAAAAA HA HAAAAAAA
You fool
MORTAL
I just love his "with that said" at the end, it's like a trademark !
Off subject, but who was playing in that Wario Vs. ZSS match? it was a really intense game.
this controler is limited because the d pad have only 8 direction and an example falco's up b have 12 direction
Schelson Pierre-louis You could easily input a button combo for the same directions I'd imagine. Like down back or down forward could make a character crouch walk for example.
Why are Wii U gamepads illegal to use in tournament?
There a bitch to set up.
Wireless is kind of a hassle with so many signals and so much potential interference going on in a relatively small space.
Tyler Kegger Because you can only connect one GamePad to one Wii U, which means that a GamePad player can't play against another GamePad player.
Tyler Kegger They may not be very popular. But if splatoon at smash tournaments has told us anything. Gamepads have terrible interference with other game pads. Which is a horrible problem.
@Fin0fLenster it's more because of the fact that you can only have one gamepad user per setup. wireless signals aren't really a problem; i've used my pro controller at a major and didnt have any interference.
How do you run in the smash box? Is there a button for it?
The left and right buttons are 100% by default, so pressing one one them will make you dash. The different walk speeds are achieved with modifier buttons.
My question is how would you perform tilts, or walk and run as opposed to dashing?
I think I would hate this controller lol, I don't have a problem with it though
ok lets see:
"everything that changes the meta game to one dominating strategy gets banned"
"I think it could push the meta to higher level and if there are enougth available for everyone...."
You see the problem here?, right?
Andreas S. But it isn't dominating. There a strict learning curve with it. Recoveries that require precise angles can't be used to their full extent with the smash box.
But if it pushes the meta to a higher level it would mean that people who don't want to play with the box becaues they are used to GC-Controler or just don't want to
afford a new controller for smash will have a disadvantage because they don't play it with this controler
Andreas S. only a few select people would be proficient with it at the start, and some movements are sometimes harder to pull off.
James Chan some of the over 200 fire fox angles are impossible this controller only getting slightly over fifty.
We need to ban the original Gamecube Controller because i want to play with the DK Bongos, and every player with a GC controller keeps kicking my ass. That is how stupid you sound
Have you done a Ness tutorial? If not, that would be super helpful for me.
I've watched your videos for a while, and I was like "why didn't this show up in my sub box?" Then I realized I wasn't subbed to you then immediately subbed
I got a free trial for youtube red and found i was subbed to UA-cam red original or whatever they called it, I unsubbed because the trial ran out and I was mad it automatically subscribed me
Gravy sucked with it in tournament
Who is your main ?
_ pOnyO Corrin
pacman
marth
wario
hello ponyo
alright so a few issues with smashbox:
- normally, you can do a tilt like a smash if you don't hit the joystick the whole way. is there a way to do that here?
- also, RIP Fox, Falco, Shiek, Mewtwo, Ness, Lucas, Palutena and Zelda's recoveries, and to a lesser extent Pit and Dark Pit's.
Nackles42 I'm assuming you haven't seen the demonstration video.
rip zelda? shes been rip since 2001.
Hi My Smash Corner, can you please do a video on optimal Kirby combos?
My main problem with this has been the potential for other controller mods. The smashbox changes the analog inputs of movement and shield to digital inputs. People have argued that if the smashbox is allowed to do it, why not gamecube controllers? It opens the door to buttons that give the perfect angles for shield drops, perfect angles to get out of marth's chain grab as fox in Melee, etc. At this point it's not just making techs easier while making normal movement harder, this just makes hard techs easier without any downside.
I've seen some points against this and they just don't seem to work well.
1. Only have analog movement or digital movement; can't mix both options.
That still opens up the option of putting a shield drop angle onto the analog L or R Trigger.
2. Let the smashbox be legal and ban other controller mods.
There's not enough reasoning to just allow the smashbox to be legal and nothing else. Does the smashbox get a pass just because it's being sold like a third party controller? What if I make my own smashbox, is that not allowed because I made it and not them? You could argue it wouldn't be allowed because mine might have different angle modifiers to do harder techs, but it's not like the smashbox is doing anything different. There's no standard for digital angle modifiers, so why would one be allowed and not the other? There has to be a better way to do this without having the community pick and choose what should and shouldn't be legal.
I would like the idea of this controller much more if controller modding wasn't surrounding it. In Melee especially, the idea of seeing people do crazy movements on the same controller you use is inspiring. Making it so that the pro's controller is at not just a physical advantage, but a technical advantage, would hurt that.
...but Smashbox is not a mod.
The hitbox is fantastic for fighting games so i hope the smashbox is also good.
Do you know how to drop toon links bombs without his tether coming out
Can someone tell me how this gets rid of hand cramps? Surely it just prolongs the damage onto the different muscles required to use a controller in this way? Is hand cramping not a problem in other fighting games?
Doesn't matter I'll still body people with Good ol game cube.
There is nothing to ban here. Just watch gravy at Don't park on the grass.
How would you differentiate walking and running?
Ambrose, what are your plans on streaming?
On all of these issues, fighting games don't have this issue in tournaments. Smash really does get babied by the babies who play it, jeez.
True, but you forgot that the majority of Smash players like to bitch about anything that could possibly change the meta of a game that's had the same meta for 5 years and the same 5 people winning anything that matters anyways
I am anti-smash box, here is why. The box isn't a problem, but if it is legal than all analog to digital mods must be allowed as well. So someone could have a normal controller, but it has a button that desyncs the ice climbers, that is an extremely difficult analog impute that becomes a button. And there are many other things like a desync button that many will abuse if smash box is legal.
Riverdog Plays BTD
That's called a macro, and those aren't allowed.
Isn't a macro more than one impute mapped to one button?
I've climbers desync isn't a macro, literally just one analog impute. If you can hit a specific part the controller than popo will jump but nana won't. That is a single analog desync which would be easier with analog to digital conversions, like the smash box.
I disagree. The game cube is the ONLY option to play melee and many people don't like the controller for its weirdness (it's trigger buttons are asymmetrical, some buttons click and others press in silently) and for peeps who try smash from MARVEL v. CAPCOM, Street Fighter, or others might have an easier time transitioning. Any added benefits are very minute.
slippery slope
I literally was focusing more on the smash 4 footage than the actual video.
"THAT'S STILL NOT KILLING WHAT"
How would you shield drop with the smash box?
all you need for trash is the shield and grab buttons anyway lol
Not completing that final final match. What a tease, I wanted to see if and how you won.
You should have also talked about the videos Black Hombre (the guy who was already playing with a fighting stick) did about this, it was fairly in depth as well.
my question is how would you perform a tilt move? wouldn't a smash attack just come out
Isn't Scenario 1 really similar to what you discussed in your video about banning things in Smash? When one technique dominates the meta... If that happens, would you be for banning it at that point? Or would you just feel that because it's a controller it falls out of that category? I'm with you on legalizing it now, but if it does become a meta thing then I'm not sure how I'll feel...
How would you run with Smash box? Maybe a double tap??
I'm not saying it will but i would like to hear your opinion on the smash box potentially pushing a new style of playing which maybe deriving from the games natural progression. In 'SSBM Tutorials' he discussed the neutral VS punish and he mentioned a new style of playing being the 'DOC kids'. if this makes physical execution of tech easier would it be pushing this style of playing forward. Sry I don't usually go on rants but i'm curious to know.
That board with buttons is optimal? Does that mean that playing smash on a keyboard is better than using the Gamecube controller as well?
What happened to that "The Game Direct" channel you used to do with that girl? You guys made a lot of interesting videos back in the day.
What is that "B-Do" controller you mentioned?
I couldn't find any info, so I'm assuming that I just don't know the spelling.
Orgnolf it's spelled bidou
Orgnolf It's a specific control scheme, centralising on putting the Cstick to special and almost all of your important buttons to shoulder buttons. he made a video about Bidou.
your voice is as smooth as butter! :D
for all that why can't we have the option to switch to the d-pad like on the Pro Controller?
hey msc, I found an infinite combo attack for bowser. it requires a good amount of skill and needs to be in an area where the ceiling is close to the floor, but it is really good. you have to use the attack that makes bowser grab an enemy and body slam the enemy, breathe fire on it, then do the same move that started it and keep going in the same order. The best map I found for it is the cave map.
Very well constructed thoughts, another thing I think is that the switch for the D-pad should be re-configured to a more accessible spot on the fly to keep things a little salty still, ahaha.....
... are you able to fairly easily transition between running and walking with the smashbox?... just a thought...
You should make a tutorial on how to wobble with the ice climbers. I know it's going off the chart as switching to super smash four to super smash melee/brawl but I think a lot of people will appreciate your detailed tutorials. Thanks
But one thing how the hell do you press all the buttons continuously at once like it looks like the analog and the button inputs under it will be like impossible to reach them both also wii sidewards remote controller is the best
Does Ryu even work with thr Smash Box? I mean his special inputs, I can't imagine them inputting with Buttons
with the joystick becoming buttons, how could you walk , tilt , shield drop etc. ?
Watch the trailer for it.
0:54 This just happened to me. I bought a white gamecube controller from Japan a year and a half ago. I just can´t perfect pivot correctly as I used to. I switched back to my other gamecube controller that I haven´t used as often.
But there will be some limitations like not being able to walk without landing then holding down left or right, also recoveries like fire fox wil only go 8 angles.
Question: Why would you be using a GameCube Controller rather than a Wii U Pro controller or even a freaking WiiMote?
Being an active smash bros player, and watching a ton of tournaments. I learn much more about Smash bros everyday. But I have never heard of this Smashbox. Thanks for putting it out there!
honestly its like changing your controls( for example changing z to jump) to make it easier to do c stick aerials.
Make a video about how to main snake in brawl
I'm a Ryu main. Would input specials be difficult with buttons instead of a stick? I mean fight sticks for SF still use a stick not 4 buttons. And this isn't the same as a Dpad.
i need one, i love fight sticks and i think i could try the competitive scene for smash with it
Thx for this video, didnt even know that Smash now has this arcade stick-like controller
I wonder if ness or Lucas recovery gets worse or stays the same with the smash box?
What's the difference between the smash box and fight sticks for games like MC or DOA? Same idea and concept is it not.
Are there more uh's and ah's in this video than usual something seems off, but great video and thanks for adressing this! Big fan of all your videos so far. :)
it should be legal. not only is it more difficult to learn, there's tech that cannot be done as easily or at all with smash box
Also, why are we going to such crazy lengths and still using two jump buttons instead of a jump and a short hop?
I'd like to keep my joysticks, please.
ikr
Well no one is taking it away from you. They're just adding other options.
Dimz Noms they are because it puts everyone who plays the game with the input method the game is designed around at a severe disadvantage
Ryan if that's your argument then no one should be allowed to augment their controller map because it gives. them diffrent options than other people
A problem for melee is that the Smashbox allows you to do far apart and precise analog inputs with a speed that is near physically impossible while moving a joystick with your fingers. The biggest issue with this is that with practice, near-frame perfect SDI can become relatively consistent, without any risk of attempting it. The combo-heavy melee that we love could face a serious threat.
My GameCube controller doesn’t have any rubber on it’s joystick anymore.