I don't think I'll raid if I make it to 60, I'd like to see the vanilla raids for the first time, but idk if it's worth the hassle. For me the game is the leveling journey. Edit: Still alive, first HC toon, 52 NE warrior. Almost there! Second edit: hit 60 and immediately started a new character 😆. Needless to say I won't be raiding.
I'm not even on classic, but in retail (and when I originally started playing at the head of BC) I've always just enjoyed the leveling. It's the journey to "end game" that is the game for me. I still don't understand the idea that "endgame is where the game is."
Raiding is boring. I don't want a second job with a time and a place where I HAVE TO play. I just wanna play when I want to play. If I feel like playing 15 mins then that's what I'll do. If I feel like playing 2hrs then so be it. I don't like the idea of being beholden to play at some arbitrary point in time.
??? except it's the opposite for hardcore? the entire "playing the game" part of it is the leveling... tha t60+ raiding stuff is all extra to the challenge... clearly you haven't played hc?
@@cappakrunchcappakrunch9681 I mean he’s right. Just like was mentioned in the video, a large number of people don’t even raid, they prefer to level up. Your comment applies more to retail/wrath classic and doesn’t really apply to hc. More people choose to level than raid in hc
While I will most likely not be playing hardcore, I really like watching the content. I think this can help WoW's streaming numbers because the death mechanic adds drama every time, no exceptions. Most of us are very familiar with vanilla wow zones and have probably leveled at least one of every class in them. This gives us (the viewer) a sense of familiarity and makes it easier for us to empathize with the streamer.
Makes you really wonder what WoW would've been like if they hadn't been so focused on the endgame. For me the endgame was always the least fun part. I had so much more fun leveling with the friends I would make and doing dungeons with them. Grinding the crafting, seeing earlier encounters become so much easier as my character became more powerful, feeling like I had made progress. The expansion model where they made all the prior content irrelevant was doomed to fail.
you cant add infinite leveling. I'm the complete opposite of you, I started in vanilla wow (not classic, vanilla) and I ALWAYS enjoyed the end game (dungeons and raid) a lot more than leveling. On retail leveling is just a 3-4h chore thank goodness
For me the best version of WoW is Classic PvP right around the 30s, about 36-38, not twinks though purely legit characters. Pretty much every class has a full kit with all their skills, it’s just better ranks beyond that, you don’t have the bottom of your talent tree, you can have engineering grenades but they aren’t the complete meta, you can actually do an off meta talent build that works around that level instead of [exactly these talents], gear isn’t busted but seeing a warrior with Whirlwind Axe is still scary as warriors should be, and your gear is quest gear/random drops/dungeon gear/crafted gear. To me it’s the most balanced form of the game, it’s when you get to late game and Shamans in Naxx gear are unkillable in a 1v1, or hunters freeze trap aim shot you for 2/3 of your hp then just kite, etc. That mid to upper 30s world pvp is the best with friends
@@stealthyturtles when I used to play Light's hope server before classic came out, I was having a blast levelling an undead warlock at first, but stopped levelling at one point and just pvp'ed with alliance in hillsbrad foothills all the time, it was the most fun time I ever experienced in wow
@@Alehandro12exactly man. once a lock gets full + spell dmg gear and their curses are doing like 500 dmg a tick, that you cant bandage through and if you dont have a healer you just melt over time it gets really boring. same for all classes, rogues ambushing you for 3/4 your hp pool sucks, hunters landing a freeze trap and its GG for every class after an aimshot is lame, shamans casting a 1.0s heal and topping off when 2 classes have a kick sucks then you get random WF proc'd and shred into an elem mastery lightning + shock for a double crit over half your HP bar. that mid to late 30s right before mounts is the best WoW there is
@@stealthyturtleshunter at lvl 19-29 can be a lot of fun. Druid at 29 is really fun too. Like you said, a lot of classes are lacking their kit until the 30s so if you play a class that gets some early perks like travel/aspect to move faster you’re already way ahead.
It's not a problem. The theme is the journey not the destination. Once you hit 60 it's time to start a new journey. Just like in real life we all know where the journey ends. It's the chapters in the middle that matter.
There is always a lock shortage. When raiding you are reduced to one button due to debuf limits and you have to spend alot of time farming 40-60 soul shards for every raid, all just to do middle of the road DPS.
Raiding on lock is boring AF. The only reason you are brought in is for your Curses. Then it's shadow bolt spam. No dots allowed. Pet dmg is weak. Imps are phased so they survive and keep up buff. It's just not fun to raid imo. With that being said they have the best visually appealing tier sets in classic :)
One comment on Warlocks: Beyond 2 Warlocks the demand for them is much lower - the 3rd one is a struggle to even argue as better than a 7th or 8th Mage. This is unfortunate, but the debuff cap is a primary. I say this as a long time Warlock main. There's both a low Warlock population and an even lower demand for them. If debuff cap is gone like it was on SoM then we are a bit better in the P1/P2 raids though.
While that may be true I don't see why they wouldn't want to be gearing all of the warlocks they have so if one dies they aren't stuck without a curse or just using a bad warlock
If blizzard will add achievements in HC mode (like for completing raids / raid bosses) then I will be more interested in end game. But for now, with the current HC addon ruleset, I enjoy the levelling proces so much that the end game content doesn't attract me enough to participate.
Hey buddy sorry to hear you're having a rough time in Hardcore endgame. Just remember that Hardcore Endgame is actually really a whole new thing for Hardcore. Not too long ago the whole goal was to reach level 60 at which point you were free from the challenge. This all changed in Season of Mastery for the first ever "Road to Rag" event. Raiding is something to do if you want to continue the hardcore journey as a level 60 BUT it's not a requirement. It's good that you want to Raid but even if their were several guilds it probably be better just to have the one because 600 out of the countless thousands playing hardcore is not enough to sustain a Raid team I know it sucks to not be able to get into the action right away but this is also a period of time where you could simply level another hardcore character. People do die in and out of rotation and it's a lot to manage. So if you've done all you can on your hunter now be a great time to roll something else and it doesn't matter what class because they all die all the time.
I can't imagine myself going through the struggle to survive, and not seeing how far I can go... So few will make it to endgame, it can't be the prize. Leveling is the point, endgame is for fiveheads.
If they introduce HC Classic with the Vanilla balance completely unchanged, it will still be popular, but non the less a fail. They need to adjust the debuff cap, they need to rebalance some specs to make them playable. It should be HC Vanilla+.
I don't plan on playing hardcore because I don't hate myself, but I could see hardcore players enjoying the leveling experience a lot since they'll be doing it a lot. I am really curious how hardcore is going to work for instances since you're relying on 4-39 other players to not mess up so badly that you die.
The solo leveling experience is actually quite fun, it gives it a sort of single player RPG feel. But you nailed it. Losing hours upon hours upon hours of progress because a tank was oblivious, healer was braindead, or dps decided to leeroy jenkins the entire dungeon in panic... yea, that just ruins it all. Raiding takes this worst aspect of hardcore and amplifies it.
You have a large chance of dying to bad players in every dungeon and raid. Healer simply stopped healing me in rage fire chasm and I died. Happened early but there was nothing I could do to avoid it, and boom all progress erased
That's always been my biggest problem the only slots that are easily filled might be for a class you don't like at all so you have to either miss out on the class you actually wanna play or give up and play something you don't like just to get in Terrible system but I'm not sure what could even be done about that
This problem is mainly because you have one big guild. It will disappear on its own with multiple end game guilds. Overpopulation is not healthy for classic servers. People fight for ressources instead of collaborating.
Yea I was going to say that there will probably and most likely be multiple end game guilds so this for will not be accurate but still good watch to notice what they are taking the most, the least.
HC Elite is a bit big, but if I hit 60 on HC I'd rather be in a bigger guild with a chance to raid than join a guild with hopes of getting enough 60s to raid. It's gonna be tough on official with no appeals, sure there will be more people playing but it's going to be tough to get raid teams together, and there probably won't be more than a few big guilds with enough people to consistently raid.
nope. Hunters survive wipes thanks to their cheat death, and are also one of the most popular hardcore choices due to their levelling safety/speed. It's only natural there's too many of them.
Why would it be different with more guilds? It doesn't even matter how many teams you divide the player base into, the ratio of 1 class to the total player count won't be changed by that and that's what decides whether you have too many hunters or not. Yes, more guilds mean more raid spots for hunters but they also mean that you need more players of any other class and in the end you will still have too many hunters
wow who knew one of the most popular classes in the game, which became an even more popular option for hardcore players, would have struggle finding a raid spot.
I’m so happy HC is taking off the way it is. I’ll never forget watching kargoz in stream in the beginning of hardcore. It’s been so dope to see it pop off ❤️
Havent played wow for about a year - didnt even know about HC until the other day. Currently trying to recover my acc 👊 I played D2 from the open beta and was always HC thereafter. Also Ark HC was soo good other than bugs. Now the officials are gone and sucks on xbox
I do not plan to raid at 60 in HC my only goal is to hit 60, but after watching this video, my new goal is to hit 60 with a warlock or druid. I dont know much about either class, so it will be a learning experience, I think I will go with warlock. I will probably join a raid, and die first raid, but if I hit 60 I will already have met my only goal
As a hunter. I tend to agree with the mongo, that is Sardaco... there are about 10 hunters in the same loot situation in HC elite right now.. the top 4 in the main raid are NEVER changing, rightfully so... I feel like HC Elite is trying to be fair with the 2nd MC and what not, but like it is basically a feelsbad moment for like 10 people in the same class. And there are new hunters like EVERY day soooo its not particularly hard to get prebis, so if they survive around 3 or 4 in game days they are probably prebis. The best way to deal with this would be if there was a metric to track how much each hunter has contributed to the cause/community. But even then, there are about 10 guys that have done about the same stuff. Logs in 20 mans i guess is the only thing you can use to make these decisions but who knows. My current stategy is to always be prepared. Always put the effort in, and hope people see that. All the same, i feel bad for the other 10 guys when I get selected. Anyway, Sardaco will likely be dead soon, nearly grenaded himself in raid today as master looter. GO AGANE!
Warrior may be the most played but thast ok as they make up TWENTYFIVE PRECENT of the raid, yes a good raid will have 10 warrior, insane I know, but if the raid ever wishes to do AQ40 or Naxx they will actually need that many offtanks, and even if their was 0 need for offtanks, there is no reason to go below 8-10 warrior, for they will be the main damage of the raid.
Holy shit that list of chores to get raid ready after hitting 60. I don’t think I have it in me again in this life time Lmao Hope all you lads enjoy official hardcore
Reminds me of Vanilla. Guild were seeking my class, Warlock out, could already join MC raids at lv 58. Never had to apply for a raid spot. And almost no competition on class specific drops. Golden times.
@@Dovidme Curses, every lock can only have one on the boss, every lock brings a battle ress, and the health stones, and of course summons when some people need to leave the raid. Utility is written all over lock and with some gear, their dps is nothing to sneeze at either.
Blizzard has made it clear on their official post that the end game is not the focus of HC, and most of the gameplay revolves around the journey, engaging in adventures in the open world. So, there’s actually nothing to worry about the end game.
Excellent video! While watching i realized i was watching live on twitch when you were doing Stratholme with Xaryu, he even congratulated Owlberto on his ding xD
before i died on my 60 i told myself i was never going to do it again, dude warrior was an absolute grind solo, w/ pugging and tanking every dungeon... it was dope to hit max level but man did dying suck
Love Xaryu but yeah hes only included because of 15k viewers. Who cares tho hes not putting them at risk cause hes a great player and hes making a ton of people want to play. Win win imo. Can't wait for official hc. Gonna be wild
I have been in the main raid team since it was a thing. This is because I pumped had to get a spot when the team formed. With the recent explosion of growth I totally see how this is a big issue now. My understanding of the issues as leadership sees it (I am not leadership) We have sort of just been waiting / stalling for official servers to release and fix this problem. Until a couple of days ago, HC only officially supported one guild per faction per server (to verify trading), so you had to be in HC elite and we only have a couple of people that are willing and trustworthy enough to lead raids. I think the HC team will no longer support any one particular 60 guild going forward, so there is an opportunity for more guilds and raid teams to form.
@@CookedPotatoes47 Some people are being taken to 20 mans with out prebis. The leaders try and get a feel for who is not going to get people killed and take them on 40 mans.
Will it happen on launch? Yes, it will. This is literally no different than retail wow except on a smaller scale. The only thing that will prevent this happening is if there is a larger playerbase playing hardcore. So instead of ONE BIG GUILD. It will be TWO BIG GUILDS. . In retail WoW, most guilds are extremely casual. There are few guilds who run the heroic raids, and I can probably count on my fingers and toes the total guilds on any of our entire shards running mythic raids or 20+ keys regularly. . The point is simple. A small percentage of the playerbase wants to do top level content (why so much time an energy goes into it with such a small percentage of the player base even caring is another discussion). On hardcore classic there's already a tiny total number of players even at max level. A tiny percentage of an already small number equals one guild. . If we really want to discuss hardcore problems, the main issue is that the way the game is designed especially in max level content is in a way that oftentimes OTHER people suffer from someone's mistake. Hardcore is supposed to be a measure of your own skill... not your skill in praying that your tank taunts on an agro reset... Until they fix this major problem I will never play hardcore. If a tank makes a mistake that costs someone elses life, the tank should lose their character, not the person they f'd over. If a healer stops healing and just stands there doing nothing while you die and it's recorded... the healer should lose their character, not you. Being punished for other players mistakes is the main reason I don't pve on retail, and it's one of the main reasons I will not play classic hardcore.
I like how 3 years ago, people were like 'yeah you'll see what difficult is when classic releases'. 3 years later, you have people coming up with absurd restrictions in order to make it somewhat challenging.
The difficulty of classic raiding is not the raid mechanics. It is getting 40 people to not rag and break up the guild. The number of guilds that could not hold it together and clear through naxx was very high in classic.
@@sonhadvar6832 The point is the Classic levelling is harder than Retail levelling, and it absolutely is, it's genuinely hard to die doing Retail levelling, that's why far more extreme challenges than Hardcore exist(ed) for Retail, such as the Ironman Challenge (No talents, no specialisation, only white and grey gear, + usual HC rules). Retail raiding is harder than Classic raiding, except for LFR, which can be cleared with more than half of the raid AFK and the other half rolling their face across the keyboard. Some Ulduar Hardmodes are harder than most Normal raids on Retail though (Mimiron, XT, Iron Council, Yogg 0, Algalon), but not as hard as most Heroics. (We'll see how ICC 25m Heroics matches up to modern retail Heroics, probably easier except for maybe The Lich King).
This was such an enjoyable watch, i almost felt annoyed to see sub 500 subscribers. Very much hoping you get big, this was a very easy and enjoyable watch
Good video, definitely underrated channel for the quality content. There should definitely be multiple guilds. In general, the only reason hardcore endgame raiding exists was to add an additional challenge and content to the streamers who first started hardcore. On that note, it was a success and the road to ragnaros was a good event, but is it sustainable? We also learned from that time that som was quite the failure, though it did give us good experience in how to increase raiding difficulty and the increased rates of xp/shorter phases. I believe the original intention of becoming immortal at 60 is more sustainable to world of warcraft HC as thats just the type of game it is. Its not as solo as arpgs like diablo. Deleting well geared 60s like your main tank after gearing them for months is a huge strain on the playerbase, the individuals, and the social cohesion. There will be a lot of drama. Raiding would not survive and exist right now if the petrification flask was not in the game or if it did not allow you to get ported out of the instance as a safety net to protect you from death. It proves players want to raid but want to minimize as much risk as possible. They could forgo using it, but of course you would take advantage of every tool at your disposal. In general, it's antithetical to what is hardcore. Sidenote: increased xp rates would kill the main appeal of leveling, it's a slow difficult grind but satisfying and rewarding. They can do so, but not too much. You go around the world more when you need to switch between zones. Also increase dungeon quest xp and less dungeon mob xp. No dungeon mob xp if someone in group is out of the level cap or 60. I would like to see a two options. Option A) A server of death=delete at every level even endgame. - I believe this won't be as popular or successful but I know some people want this so badly, so give this option, just like how some people want a server with no AH, mail, or trading or grouping for elites. Option B) A server of death=delete while leveling, but you receive immortality at level 60. (which means not just 1 guild trying to fill up all the time) - Both servers will give you the option to make your character as SSF (solo self found) while leveling or being able to trade, mail, AH with restrictions based on level. Another option to manage an economy in hardcore is high fixed prices on all items, like something similar to how much a vendor would sell a green weapon for. Also, not allowing the free trade and mailing of gold to other players and your other characters as well as gear. Everything has a price, like a mail sent as COD (cash on delivery). We can't allow people to boost their own characters. Of course you can just say whatever, but I think there should be an extra bonus for people who level as SSF like a title, tabard, pet and/or mount. Now what do we really make of option B? People love hardcore leveling, more than raiding is what I suspect. Classic raiding isn't mechanically interesting on a boss mechanic level or a class mechanic level. Yet it's fun because of the preparation of gathering world buffs and coordination of going together as a group for world pvp/getting world buffs. Also, managing 40 people is the toughest part but also fun interacting with 40 people (if you're lucky). I've heard a lot of people wanting to lower the raid size, increase the loot drop amount, or increase difficulty with more boss mechanics like som. I'm more in proposal of bigger changes like classic+, class balancing, racial balancing, better itemization/stats like tier sets, world pvp balancing, adding arena, more bg modes of the same maps, horizontal progression, dual spec, no flying mounts ever or more interesting ground mounts like one that ramps up in speed, barbershop, and other features inline with vanilla. Sadly, this probably won't be announced tomorrow. What I'd like to see for option B in raiding is implementing exactly what petrification flask does as an ingame system, not at an arbitrary farm to making raiding HC viable. You get your raid team, you go in. If someone dies, they get ported out of the raid (game lore reason = rescued by faction reinforcements) and then they can't enter again. Now your raid is down 1 person, thus increasing the difficulty. I'd prefer locking the raid team so you can't keep filling people who die. You can even let each healer res a player once during the entire raid. This is increasing the stakes just like HC, and since the players are immortal at 60, it still makes death meaningful in the raiding context. You can make death meaningful outside too by making a heavier gold penalty and making it flat regaredless of armor type. I'd even apply this type of petri/rescue system to dungeons while leveling and at 60 because I'm sure many players are avoiding dungeons simply because of death=delete. We want to make the game social while still keeping death meaningful. The more people die in a raid or a dungeon, the more unlikely you will clear it. They're locked out until next reset. Maybe the next day for raids. So raids have a death reset every day, but a full boss reset every week or 3/4 days. Dungeons should have a day reset too while leveling and other methods to curtail dungeon boosting/xp farming. Now here's the interesting part, lets say your raid goes through and clears it with zero deaths. They should be able to get an achievement through a quest (which is what they should be, in-game, not UI). Maybe its some gold, some flasks/pots/scrolls/consumables, maybe mount/pet/title/tabard, or a final chest drop where they can pick a loot drop from a selection for each player (nothing crazy op maybe). You can have two dungeon modes while leveling, you talk to a npc at the beginning saying we won't need faction reinforcements to save us and then each player can select loot that drops. An incentive for the higher stakes gameplay, a high risk/high reward system. Something that all players need to opt in with the npc. Or the other mode where if you get down to 1 or 0 hp, your character gets "downed". So, let's say your character is downed and each class that can res can only do so once during the run, but there is no res available so you get ported out and the group is down 1 person. They can try to 4 man it, or just give up for the day and try again tomorrow.
@@ksadjdadjaifen lmao thank you I've been thinking about it a lot and I'm sure there's many grammatical errors there making it more difficult to read.
@@SardacoTV yeah I'm thinking about trying to make a video on this. My predictions were correct they went with the least effort possible by just disabling resurrection. It's probably the best move for them to not go heavy handed. I'm sure their devs are already thinking about the problems, like unable to do bgs which they can work around with a round based pvp system like a cs go plant the bomb but as ctf in wsg. Instead of death, 1 hp and you're out that round. I predict we might get those complaints later but so many people will love leveling over and over for months while the top 10% of gamers actually raiding will see the drawbacks at 60. Really cool to see makgora but I can't imagine many people doing this besides like 10 and 20 dueling tournaments 😂
They could simply announce WotLK Phase 3 drop date and Joyous Journeys timeframe. It is a promise to have some "classic talk" not HC talk. Great video. Have a sub.
I could use some advice from someone that was near the HC raiding scene. I would love to play a warrior tank but it seemed like half of all HC 60's were warriors in the addon. However from your screenshot of the raid signup sheet It looks like there were only 2 warrior tanks and 4 druid tanks. Is there a lack of warrior tanks at 60? I would hate to go through the pain of leveling a HC warrior just to find out I can't tank because there are too many other warrior tanks.
I did manage to find a warrior that raided on the mod. He said that while there are many warriors at 60, the amount that actually want to tank is low. so if you want to be a primary tank there is very little competition. On top of that (and this is my own guesswork) I would assume that tanks are the most likely to die so there are probably always available positions or soon will be.@@Cabelius
@@steen_is_adrift What class would you recommend me? I´m totally lost with so many ideas hahaha Whatever class you tell me I´ll play it. (I´ve always played hunter in every game all my life, my main in wow is a hunter but don´t want to play it on this occassion). I want to be top in set on the SV. Taking into account that tanks are the most likealy to die... Kinda don´t want that for me xd
If I wanted to raid at 60 again then definitely not HC. Even with a non HC raid there are problems with the roster because you always need more people than there are raidslots. The logistics of raiding are really annoying in classic even without HC. HC raiding just means loot council overlords deciding your fate.
It wont be the same on official servers. One thing that's off putting for player made hardcore is having to leran all the addon and rules..etc hardcore servers being more easy to get into will increase the player count and increase the amount of guilds trying to raid at 60
My problem with raiding is lack of build diversity. Everyone has the same build, everything is minmaxed. I like niche builds that are personally enjoyable to me, but can’t raid in any of them.
Yes, it will be the same, I have played hardcore with all my characters since 2004, when I die it´s over. The only times I have bent those rules were deaths due to technical glitches like disconnections. Grouping with randoms gets you killed and most classes simply lack that "ooh shit" button, Rogues have "vanish" and Hunters have "feign death", both abilities that let you escape certain death if you are a bit clever about it, other classes have escape mechanics but they are limited in scope. The rogue is far more fragile though and will meet his demise unless very careful, the hunter is the only class with that double layer, pet and feign death. You should never die if you don´t group up and do things without rushing, a hunters main enemy on his way to 60 is his arrogance when things become a bit too easy. Whenever I reached 60 I toggled permadeath off simply due to "mission accomplished", on official hardcore servers I would just sit and flex somewhere unless I was ready to lose my character.
Don't level a warlock if you intend to have an easy time finding a group at endgame. For raids their dps is crap unless you're at least AQ40 geared and are only invited for banish for MC, summons, curse of recklessness for melee and curse of elements for mages, very rarely for curse of shadows, due to most of the time there not being enough people to benefit from it. This means that typically there are at most 3 open slots for warlocks per any raid 40 or 25 man. If you want higher chance of getting in, then consider rolling by order of highest chance of invite adjusted based on experience: holy priest, dps warrior, healing shaman, healing pala, rogue, healing druid, mage, warrior tank, hunter, warlock, druid tank, dps priest, dps druid, dps shaman, dps paladin. Tanking is often competitive to get into 40-man raids, unlike dungeons and 20-25-mans.
only way blizz can fix this is - rebalance the raids to be 25 man and 10 man respectively. it will reduce player strain between guilds and allow for a more diverse guild market.
I can tell you exactly how HC is going to go for me. Spend the next few weeks agonising about what class to play, use a Randomiser to choose a class, die before level 15. Repeat until somehow I magically get a class to 40, get bored and quit.
My plan is to level a farmer hunter alt to 60 (tailor/skin for bagz) then dropping them for mining/alch, and maybe becoming a guild alchemist, who never raids so no risk to die and losing flask patterns, but I can still mine ocassionally and run into cleared scholo/bwl for flaskmaking, otherwise just being in a city for transmute CDs. Also will lvl a restodruid skin/herb, maybe can skin onyxia (if I get a +knife) after got killed, no prob if I get saved entering, though I wonder if I get in, get summoned, skin and using a mageportal out withing the 1 min counter makes me saved) and can heal in 20 mans. Restodruids are the best healers if played right but because of same HoTs not stacking and buff/debuff limits they are not too good, max 1 or 2 per raid so I must pass on that dream. Finally, doing a raid-support afflilock "main" (tailor/engi), support because of the same reason, debuff limits, no corr or other dots allowed only cor coe etc so cant rly be top dps unless aoeing, but its fine, they bring us for raid-boosting :) OFc I must lvl many to 60, but I definetely agree, so no plans on maining a hunter, or maybe a second one...
Raiding is definitely one of the worst aspects of these private servers. I have been playing for 20 years, not actively, but still. Raiding was the most frustrating experience ever, starting from world buffs, gold dkp, hard/soft reserves, no places and etc.
Some of the rules of SSF I find a bit restrictive. I’d prefer limited trading among people of a similar level, would be nice to stimulate a separate hardcore economy. Means not everyone has to go alchemy OR engineering. Like the fact you can’t even trade mage food is kinda silly to me.
SOM 2 will also have regular and PVP servers, not Just HC. I will Level and Raid on a PVP server where I can also do BG's and other activities with my toon, not just raid log. If I get bored I will make another HC character after I have a raiding 60 on a real server that only raid logs or pvp's.
Well.. the HC challenge we’re all about reaching level 60, that’s it. The raiding is an additional bonus. I think Blizz ain’t gonna put their nails in too deep. I think they’re gonna make it so, when you’re dead, your dead, and perhaps a few other things. But that’s it. I think there’s going to be a fraction in the community. I think there’s gonna be a faction playing under the same custom rules at present, and I think the buzz about the HC is going to attract people where the server official wow server is enough on itself, and that’s also gonna pull from the current community. I think there’s going to be a rift.
HC is a very interesting concept but I ended up stopping mid 40s on a warrior out of boredom. I mean how many times can I press that same rotation buttons without it becoming stale? Haven't touched it in a few weeks now.
Warlocks are OP, but you have to do too many things as a Warlock, and you have more Skills than other Classes (need to press more buttons) + Your pet is worse than the Hunters pet. I played a High Warlord Warlock in Classic WOW. It was fun :)
hardcore endgame is neat, but it was never the idea behind the challenge until big/flashy streamers got involved. the leveling to 60 is the main challenge, and if folks want to try raiding and such- great. In that thought though, I think petri potions and other shenanigans used to avoid death are lame. Play softcore at that point.
i love HC in principle but personally there's no way id be willing to entrust 39 people with the life of the character i spent dozen of hours meticulously leveling and gearing. guilds continuously losing members also make it seem like it's going to be very unsustainable once the thrill of HC dies down... :/ lowkey they could use HC servers as an opportunity to attempt to rework the end game altogether.
One reason warlock isnt as prominent, i imagine, is because of the debuff slot limit. However, on the official hardcore server, there will be no limit. So, multiple affliction locks could, in theory, be in a single group.
have never really cared about endgame... ever. I've always done pvp at max level (non-HC of course) or just done gathering grinding / amusing activities until I decided to start another toon and level again. That's been my "M.O." since 1999 in MMORPGs
I have to say every group I have been in that has had an issue where we had to run or had a person die was from a hunter pulling some stuff with their pet or other dumb stuff. I will no longer do dungeons with a non guild hunter.
Levelling a warrior now. Took a long time to get the mats for the ww weapon, and got it at 36. But then one of my first quests after was in desolace to get the quest for SM to get bone biter. Kind of a bummer knowing a weapon I spent hours to get would be outclassed in another 2-3 levels. And farming "pre-bis," getting buffs etc is so much worse which is one reason I like HC...yu only do each instance once. So as I type here, fishing in Tanaris I'm left wondering how much longer I will be playing Classic in any form. I wish they would come out with different leveling experiences for classic to provide something new to experience while leveling.
This isnt new news to anyone. Do yall not remember how many warriors/rogues there were in classic vanilla. They benefit from WBs better than any other class. I for one believe that yall shouldnt sleep on feral (ally only) or ret pally. On short fights, ret can pump hard af.
I would play HC if I could do pvp in open world and battlegrounds. I usually do pvp and it would be great if they implemented rule that if you die vs other player, you don't lose ability to level again. Also they should keep in mind that if another player damages you amd if you die vs mobs, that should not count as death.
Im playing in private hc serv cuz' cannt afford to pay offi. Been around a week or so in this hc hype, died More rhan 10 times AND this i wanted to know what class to play in order to help endgame. Thanks 4 vid 🤙
Ok pardon my ignorance but why cant a raid mix change to have more hunters? Maybe there is higher chance of death but why play the always same meta setup?
Ofc it's hard to get a raid spot when every fresh lvl 60 is being funneled into these official elite guilds. On official servers it will be different story because there will be more guilds and more competition. On official launch just play the class you like playing the most, simple. GL HF and stay safe.
For raiding I'd want to go to a regular Classic server. Raiding takes a lot of chemistry developing. You get that wiping a lot as you learn how your fellow raiders play.
i dont mind being attuned for raid and not being choosen so you can play and level up an alt, if you dont wanna level another character then what you gonna do when you die?
raided for most of SoM and getting all the prebis and always having enough consumables for raids was like a part time job lol. fully understand that ppl that hit 60 just go again instead of trying to raid.
Eating my pizza here, and as soon as you said that you level a hunter - in combination with the title "endgame" - I knew what you are talking about. After a couple of minutes: "Sooo many hunters! All warriors! No druids!" - no sh*t bro. This was the same in WoW vanills years back then lol. And warlock spots are also small.
My only Argument is hardcore isn't really meant for people who enjoy the end game, sure it would be great to get all biz gear but the real fun and challenge is Lvling. My goal is lvl 60 on every class
I don't think I'll raid if I make it to 60, I'd like to see the vanilla raids for the first time, but idk if it's worth the hassle. For me the game is the leveling journey.
Edit: Still alive, first HC toon, 52 NE warrior. Almost there!
Second edit: hit 60 and immediately started a new character 😆. Needless to say I won't be raiding.
Same here. Raiding turns into a full time job and sucks all the fun out of the game. I always preferred the levelling up and had an army of alts.
Yup,i think i've got another goal. LvL up all the classes to 60 & after that i' ll have to find a new goal :D
I'm not even on classic, but in retail (and when I originally started playing at the head of BC) I've always just enjoyed the leveling. It's the journey to "end game" that is the game for me.
I still don't understand the idea that "endgame is where the game is."
Raiding is boring. I don't want a second job with a time and a place where I HAVE TO play. I just wanna play when I want to play. If I feel like playing 15 mins then that's what I'll do. If I feel like playing 2hrs then so be it. I don't like the idea of being beholden to play at some arbitrary point in time.
@@Willdchiild same here, all possible classes and races combinations and then I'll see. that'll will take a while anyway :D
Level 60 HC endgame is the literal epitome of the South Park episode.
"what do we do now"
"what do you mean, now we can finally play the game"
Reach lvl 60 its time to bath yourself and read a book 💀
Hahah ye
??? except it's the opposite for hardcore? the entire "playing the game" part of it is the leveling... tha t60+ raiding stuff is all extra to the challenge... clearly you haven't played hc?
@@geissler91 If you say so buddy. If you say so.
@@cappakrunchcappakrunch9681 I mean he’s right. Just like was mentioned in the video, a large number of people don’t even raid, they prefer to level up. Your comment applies more to retail/wrath classic and doesn’t really apply to hc. More people choose to level than raid in hc
Hc elite's tank should turn a boss's flame breath on their raid and become a celebrity sociopath for wiping 40 neckbeards
They would grant everyone an appeal saying it was griefing. Lol
@@alchemytyjust have your cat do it "accidentally"
@@alchemytynot on official servers, its scary af xD
Now THAT would be some good content… so many nerd tears would be shed
@@alchemytyhow will they appeal on official lol
While I will most likely not be playing hardcore, I really like watching the content. I think this can help WoW's streaming numbers because the death mechanic adds drama every time, no exceptions. Most of us are very familiar with vanilla wow zones and have probably leveled at least one of every class in them. This gives us (the viewer) a sense of familiarity and makes it easier for us to empathize with the streamer.
You are missing out! I thought the same but it’s been so much fun!!!
He couldn't make it on Warrior so he rerolled Hunter and now he's complaining. ROFL.
@@dukemarriott devil's advocate. he just wanted to say it before everyone else did lol
@@dukemarriott yeah whatever the reason it’s weird that he talked in 3rd person without “ “
So what you're saying is make a warrior. Got it.
You really missed the point
The point was make a warlock
Makes you really wonder what WoW would've been like if they hadn't been so focused on the endgame. For me the endgame was always the least fun part. I had so much more fun leveling with the friends I would make and doing dungeons with them. Grinding the crafting, seeing earlier encounters become so much easier as my character became more powerful, feeling like I had made progress. The expansion model where they made all the prior content irrelevant was doomed to fail.
you cant add infinite leveling. I'm the complete opposite of you, I started in vanilla wow (not classic, vanilla) and I ALWAYS enjoyed the end game (dungeons and raid) a lot more than leveling. On retail leveling is just a 3-4h chore thank goodness
For me the best version of WoW is Classic PvP right around the 30s, about 36-38, not twinks though purely legit characters. Pretty much every class has a full kit with all their skills, it’s just better ranks beyond that, you don’t have the bottom of your talent tree, you can have engineering grenades but they aren’t the complete meta, you can actually do an off meta talent build that works around that level instead of [exactly these talents], gear isn’t busted but seeing a warrior with Whirlwind Axe is still scary as warriors should be, and your gear is quest gear/random drops/dungeon gear/crafted gear. To me it’s the most balanced form of the game, it’s when you get to late game and Shamans in Naxx gear are unkillable in a 1v1, or hunters freeze trap aim shot you for 2/3 of your hp then just kite, etc. That mid to upper 30s world pvp is the best with friends
@@stealthyturtles when I used to play Light's hope server before classic came out, I was having a blast levelling an undead warlock at first, but stopped levelling at one point and just pvp'ed with alliance in hillsbrad foothills all the time, it was the most fun time I ever experienced in wow
@@Alehandro12exactly man. once a lock gets full + spell dmg gear and their curses are doing like 500 dmg a tick, that you cant bandage through and if you dont have a healer you just melt over time it gets really boring. same for all classes, rogues ambushing you for 3/4 your hp pool sucks, hunters landing a freeze trap and its GG for every class after an aimshot is lame, shamans casting a 1.0s heal and topping off when 2 classes have a kick sucks then you get random WF proc'd and shred into an elem mastery lightning + shock for a double crit over half your HP bar. that mid to late 30s right before mounts is the best WoW there is
@@stealthyturtleshunter at lvl 19-29 can be a lot of fun. Druid at 29 is really fun too. Like you said, a lot of classes are lacking their kit until the 30s so if you play a class that gets some early perks like travel/aspect to move faster you’re already way ahead.
It's not a problem. The theme is the journey not the destination. Once you hit 60 it's time to start a new journey. Just like in real life we all know where the journey ends. It's the chapters in the middle that matter.
Really weird that there's a lock shortage
It's all Guzo's fault. He showed how easy a Warlock can die from one bad keystroke. 🙂
There is always a lock shortage. When raiding you are reduced to one button due to debuf limits and you have to spend alot of time farming 40-60 soul shards for every raid, all just to do middle of the road DPS.
Mostly because they suck endgame
Raiding on lock is boring AF. The only reason you are brought in is for your Curses. Then it's shadow bolt spam. No dots allowed. Pet dmg is weak. Imps are phased so they survive and keep up buff. It's just not fun to raid imo. With that being said they have the best visually appealing tier sets in classic :)
@@gcp5898 I love the look of Druid T3 as well
One comment on Warlocks: Beyond 2 Warlocks the demand for them is much lower - the 3rd one is a struggle to even argue as better than a 7th or 8th Mage. This is unfortunate, but the debuff cap is a primary. I say this as a long time Warlock main. There's both a low Warlock population and an even lower demand for them. If debuff cap is gone like it was on SoM then we are a bit better in the P1/P2 raids though.
With ease of leveling its odd more warlocks don't make it to 60.
@@mrillis9259 have you seen the decision making of some hc players?
While that may be true I don't see why they wouldn't want to be gearing all of the warlocks they have so if one dies they aren't stuck without a curse or just using a bad warlock
if the official hardcore server is on SoM, the debuff limit isn't going to exist
@@198sambrrs this would be amazing assuming I even get to 60 and raid in HC
Fury warrior will be the most wanted class in end game , but they will also have a lot of death risk if you play in meta leather armor.
for sure. We have many fury warriors but they die the most of any role and are the most valued.
If blizzard will add achievements in HC mode (like for completing raids / raid bosses) then I will be more interested in end game. But for now, with the current HC addon ruleset, I enjoy the levelling proces so much that the end game content doesn't attract me enough to participate.
they wont add in game achivements, its on the vanillia servers and achivements werent added to wow til wotlk
I've been lock forever, it's one of the easier classes to level I'm extremely surprised it's not more popular
End game is a grind. I’m only here for the HC challenge of getting to 60.
Hey buddy sorry to hear you're having a rough time in Hardcore endgame.
Just remember that Hardcore Endgame is actually really a whole new thing for Hardcore. Not too long ago the whole goal was to reach level 60 at which point you were free from the challenge.
This all changed in Season of Mastery for the first ever "Road to Rag" event. Raiding is something to do if you want to continue the hardcore journey as a level 60 BUT it's not a requirement. It's good that you want to Raid but even if their were several guilds it probably be better just to have the one because 600 out of the countless thousands playing hardcore is not enough to sustain a Raid team I know it sucks to not be able to get into the action right away but this is also a period of time where you could simply level another hardcore character. People do die in and out of rotation and it's a lot to manage. So if you've done all you can on your hunter now be a great time to roll something else and it doesn't matter what class because they all die all the time.
If you're still raiding, what is it like now a month later? More guilds rose up, do we still have similar issues?
I can't imagine myself going through the struggle to survive, and not seeing how far I can go... So few will make it to endgame, it can't be the prize.
Leveling is the point, endgame is for fiveheads.
if youre bad just say that
@@td1751 pretty much, as long as you somewhat understand this game and how to play it, only warrior will have any form of challenege.
If they introduce HC Classic with the Vanilla balance completely unchanged, it will still be popular, but non the less a fail. They need to adjust the debuff cap, they need to rebalance some specs to make them playable. It should be HC Vanilla+.
WITH NEW SHINY WOW TOKEN ADDED of course......
I don't plan on playing hardcore because I don't hate myself, but I could see hardcore players enjoying the leveling experience a lot since they'll be doing it a lot. I am really curious how hardcore is going to work for instances since you're relying on 4-39 other players to not mess up so badly that you die.
Honesty try it, it feels so smooth and rewarding, it’s honestly better than normal WoW imo.
The solo leveling experience is actually quite fun, it gives it a sort of single player RPG feel. But you nailed it. Losing hours upon hours upon hours of progress because a tank was oblivious, healer was braindead, or dps decided to leeroy jenkins the entire dungeon in panic... yea, that just ruins it all. Raiding takes this worst aspect of hardcore and amplifies it.
You have a large chance of dying to bad players in every dungeon and raid. Healer simply stopped healing me in rage fire chasm and I died. Happened early but there was nothing I could do to avoid it, and boom all progress erased
Every person that has told me "Noooo hooople hardcore sucks and is stupid" 8 months ago is now in love with it. dummies.
That's always been my biggest problem the only slots that are easily filled might be for a class you don't like at all so you have to either miss out on the class you actually wanna play or give up and play something you don't like just to get in
Terrible system but I'm not sure what could even be done about that
its not the system, its just the game is very imbalanced and as dps, options are very limited
This problem is mainly because you have one big guild. It will disappear on its own with multiple end game guilds. Overpopulation is not healthy for classic servers. People fight for ressources instead of collaborating.
Yea I was going to say that there will probably and most likely be multiple end game guilds so this for will not be accurate but still good watch to notice what they are taking the most, the least.
HC Elite is a bit big, but if I hit 60 on HC I'd rather be in a bigger guild with a chance to raid than join a guild with hopes of getting enough 60s to raid. It's gonna be tough on official with no appeals, sure there will be more people playing but it's going to be tough to get raid teams together, and there probably won't be more than a few big guilds with enough people to consistently raid.
nope. Hunters survive wipes thanks to their cheat death, and are also one of the most popular hardcore choices due to their levelling safety/speed.
It's only natural there's too many of them.
Why would it be different with more guilds? It doesn't even matter how many teams you divide the player base into, the ratio of 1 class to the total player count won't be changed by that and that's what decides whether you have too many hunters or not.
Yes, more guilds mean more raid spots for hunters but they also mean that you need more players of any other class and in the end you will still have too many hunters
wow who knew one of the most popular classes in the game, which became an even more popular option for hardcore players, would have struggle finding a raid spot.
I roll a resto:balance hybrid to 60 so I fee I got it made so far :D
As a hunter, I can confirm. Every hunter one day died as a warrior.
I went through 20 warriors before I made a hunter. It's honestly so easy it's as joke
If the HC server is a SoM server, I won't play. Defeats the whole point with an XP buff
it wont be. I'm not sure this guy knows what hes talking about
Blizzard said it themselves. HC server will be different to SOM2
I’m so happy HC is taking off the way it is. I’ll never forget watching kargoz in stream in the beginning of hardcore. It’s been so dope to see it pop off ❤️
This aged poorly
Havent played wow for about a year - didnt even know about HC until the other day. Currently trying to recover my acc 👊
I played D2 from the open beta and was always HC thereafter. Also Ark HC was soo good other than bugs. Now the officials are gone and sucks on xbox
I do not plan to raid at 60 in HC my only goal is to hit 60, but after watching this video, my new goal is to hit 60 with a warlock or druid. I dont know much about either class, so it will be a learning experience, I think I will go with warlock. I will probably join a raid, and die first raid, but if I hit 60 I will already have met my only goal
Druid was my first class ever when I start WoW back in 2005 and I never knew it was so unliked in classic lmao
@@gatorbait9385 I find resto/balance pretty fun so far lvl26 so far and I can get into hc dungeons if I fee so inclined
As a hunter. I tend to agree with the mongo, that is Sardaco... there are about 10 hunters in the same loot situation in HC elite right now.. the top 4 in the main raid are NEVER changing, rightfully so... I feel like HC Elite is trying to be fair with the 2nd MC and what not, but like it is basically a feelsbad moment for like 10 people in the same class. And there are new hunters like EVERY day soooo its not particularly hard to get prebis, so if they survive around 3 or 4 in game days they are probably prebis. The best way to deal with this would be if there was a metric to track how much each hunter has contributed to the cause/community. But even then, there are about 10 guys that have done about the same stuff. Logs in 20 mans i guess is the only thing you can use to make these decisions but who knows. My current stategy is to always be prepared. Always put the effort in, and hope people see that. All the same, i feel bad for the other 10 guys when I get selected.
Anyway, Sardaco will likely be dead soon, nearly grenaded himself in raid today as master looter. GO AGANE!
Warrior may be the most played but thast ok as they make up TWENTYFIVE PRECENT of the raid, yes a good raid will have 10 warrior, insane I know, but if the raid ever wishes to do AQ40 or Naxx they will actually need that many offtanks, and even if their was 0 need for offtanks, there is no reason to go below 8-10 warrior, for they will be the main damage of the raid.
There is no need to minmax raid dps in classic, you get 8 tanks for one fight in naxx and that IS it.
Holy shit that list of chores to get raid ready after hitting 60.
I don’t think I have it in me again in this life time Lmao
Hope all you lads enjoy official hardcore
Reminds me of Vanilla. Guild were seeking my class, Warlock out, could already join MC raids at lv 58. Never had to apply for a raid spot. And almost no competition on class specific drops. Golden times.
Why do they need so much lock it’s for HS ?
@@Dovidme Curses, every lock can only have one on the boss, every lock brings a battle ress, and the health stones, and of course summons when some people need to leave the raid. Utility is written all over lock and with some gear, their dps is nothing to sneeze at either.
@@mangaranwow2543 Ok ty ! I may try lock tho
Blizzard has made it clear on their official post that the end game is not the focus of HC, and most of the gameplay revolves around the journey, engaging in adventures in the open world.
So, there’s actually nothing to worry about the end game.
Excellent video! While watching i realized i was watching live on twitch when you were doing Stratholme with Xaryu, he even congratulated Owlberto on his ding xD
before i died on my 60 i told myself i was never going to do it again, dude warrior was an absolute grind solo, w/ pugging and tanking every dungeon... it was dope to hit max level but man did dying suck
Love Xaryu but yeah hes only included because of 15k viewers. Who cares tho hes not putting them at risk cause hes a great player and hes making a ton of people want to play. Win win imo. Can't wait for official hc. Gonna be wild
I don’t plan on even doing dungeons I’m going 100% solo but I love watching raids and dungeons to see how others do. Great vid
I have been in the main raid team since it was a thing. This is because I pumped had to get a spot when the team formed. With the recent explosion of growth I totally see how this is a big issue now.
My understanding of the issues as leadership sees it (I am not leadership) We have sort of just been waiting / stalling for official servers to release and fix this problem.
Until a couple of days ago, HC only officially supported one guild per faction per server (to verify trading), so you had to be in HC elite and we only have a couple of people that are willing and trustworthy enough to lead raids.
I think the HC team will no longer support any one particular 60 guild going forward, so there is an opportunity for more guilds and raid teams to form.
What are the requirements to join a raid currently? Guessing pre-raid bis, consumes and wbuffs right?
@@CookedPotatoes47 Some people are being taken to 20 mans with out prebis. The leaders try and get a feel for who is not going to get people killed and take them on 40 mans.
Will it happen on launch? Yes, it will. This is literally no different than retail wow except on a smaller scale. The only thing that will prevent this happening is if there is a larger playerbase playing hardcore. So instead of ONE BIG GUILD. It will be TWO BIG GUILDS.
.
In retail WoW, most guilds are extremely casual. There are few guilds who run the heroic raids, and I can probably count on my fingers and toes the total guilds on any of our entire shards running mythic raids or 20+ keys regularly.
.
The point is simple. A small percentage of the playerbase wants to do top level content (why so much time an energy goes into it with such a small percentage of the player base even caring is another discussion). On hardcore classic there's already a tiny total number of players even at max level. A tiny percentage of an already small number equals one guild.
.
If we really want to discuss hardcore problems, the main issue is that the way the game is designed especially in max level content is in a way that oftentimes OTHER people suffer from someone's mistake. Hardcore is supposed to be a measure of your own skill... not your skill in praying that your tank taunts on an agro reset... Until they fix this major problem I will never play hardcore. If a tank makes a mistake that costs someone elses life, the tank should lose their character, not the person they f'd over. If a healer stops healing and just stands there doing nothing while you die and it's recorded... the healer should lose their character, not you. Being punished for other players mistakes is the main reason I don't pve on retail, and it's one of the main reasons I will not play classic hardcore.
I like how 3 years ago, people were like 'yeah you'll see what difficult is when classic releases'.
3 years later, you have people coming up with absurd restrictions in order to make it somewhat challenging.
Yeah well, compared to retail it is
@@MeskDaKrull Well, no. You know what killed that argument? Release of classic WoW.
Only braindead people thought Classic was hard.
The difficulty of classic raiding is not the raid mechanics. It is getting 40 people to not rag and break up the guild. The number of guilds that could not hold it together and clear through naxx was very high in classic.
@@sonhadvar6832 The point is the Classic levelling is harder than Retail levelling, and it absolutely is, it's genuinely hard to die doing Retail levelling, that's why far more extreme challenges than Hardcore exist(ed) for Retail, such as the Ironman Challenge (No talents, no specialisation, only white and grey gear, + usual HC rules).
Retail raiding is harder than Classic raiding, except for LFR, which can be cleared with more than half of the raid AFK and the other half rolling their face across the keyboard. Some Ulduar Hardmodes are harder than most Normal raids on Retail though (Mimiron, XT, Iron Council, Yogg 0, Algalon), but not as hard as most Heroics. (We'll see how ICC 25m Heroics matches up to modern retail Heroics, probably easier except for maybe The Lich King).
This was such an enjoyable watch, i almost felt annoyed to see sub 500 subscribers. Very much hoping you get big, this was a very easy and enjoyable watch
Good video, definitely underrated channel for the quality content. There should definitely be multiple guilds. In general, the only reason hardcore endgame raiding exists was to add an additional challenge and content to the streamers who first started hardcore. On that note, it was a success and the road to ragnaros was a good event, but is it sustainable? We also learned from that time that som was quite the failure, though it did give us good experience in how to increase raiding difficulty and the increased rates of xp/shorter phases. I believe the original intention of becoming immortal at 60 is more sustainable to world of warcraft HC as thats just the type of game it is. Its not as solo as arpgs like diablo. Deleting well geared 60s like your main tank after gearing them for months is a huge strain on the playerbase, the individuals, and the social cohesion. There will be a lot of drama. Raiding would not survive and exist right now if the petrification flask was not in the game or if it did not allow you to get ported out of the instance as a safety net to protect you from death. It proves players want to raid but want to minimize as much risk as possible. They could forgo using it, but of course you would take advantage of every tool at your disposal. In general, it's antithetical to what is hardcore.
Sidenote: increased xp rates would kill the main appeal of leveling, it's a slow difficult grind but satisfying and rewarding. They can do so, but not too much. You go around the world more when you need to switch between zones. Also increase dungeon quest xp and less dungeon mob xp. No dungeon mob xp if someone in group is out of the level cap or 60.
I would like to see a two options.
Option A) A server of death=delete at every level even endgame.
- I believe this won't be as popular or successful but I know some people want this so badly, so give this option, just like how some people want a server with no AH, mail, or trading or grouping for elites.
Option B) A server of death=delete while leveling, but you receive immortality at level 60. (which means not just 1 guild trying to fill up all the time)
- Both servers will give you the option to make your character as SSF (solo self found) while leveling or being able to trade, mail, AH with restrictions based on level. Another option to manage an economy in hardcore is high fixed prices on all items, like something similar to how much a vendor would sell a green weapon for. Also, not allowing the free trade and mailing of gold to other players and your other characters as well as gear. Everything has a price, like a mail sent as COD (cash on delivery). We can't allow people to boost their own characters. Of course you can just say whatever, but I think there should be an extra bonus for people who level as SSF like a title, tabard, pet and/or mount.
Now what do we really make of option B? People love hardcore leveling, more than raiding is what I suspect. Classic raiding isn't mechanically interesting on a boss mechanic level or a class mechanic level. Yet it's fun because of the preparation of gathering world buffs and coordination of going together as a group for world pvp/getting world buffs. Also, managing 40 people is the toughest part but also fun interacting with 40 people (if you're lucky). I've heard a lot of people wanting to lower the raid size, increase the loot drop amount, or increase difficulty with more boss mechanics like som. I'm more in proposal of bigger changes like classic+, class balancing, racial balancing, better itemization/stats like tier sets, world pvp balancing, adding arena, more bg modes of the same maps, horizontal progression, dual spec, no flying mounts ever or more interesting ground mounts like one that ramps up in speed, barbershop, and other features inline with vanilla. Sadly, this probably won't be announced tomorrow.
What I'd like to see for option B in raiding is implementing exactly what petrification flask does as an ingame system, not at an arbitrary farm to making raiding HC viable. You get your raid team, you go in. If someone dies, they get ported out of the raid (game lore reason = rescued by faction reinforcements) and then they can't enter again. Now your raid is down 1 person, thus increasing the difficulty. I'd prefer locking the raid team so you can't keep filling people who die. You can even let each healer res a player once during the entire raid. This is increasing the stakes just like HC, and since the players are immortal at 60, it still makes death meaningful in the raiding context. You can make death meaningful outside too by making a heavier gold penalty and making it flat regaredless of armor type.
I'd even apply this type of petri/rescue system to dungeons while leveling and at 60 because I'm sure many players are avoiding dungeons simply because of death=delete. We want to make the game social while still keeping death meaningful. The more people die in a raid or a dungeon, the more unlikely you will clear it. They're locked out until next reset. Maybe the next day for raids. So raids have a death reset every day, but a full boss reset every week or 3/4 days. Dungeons should have a day reset too while leveling and other methods to curtail dungeon boosting/xp farming. Now here's the interesting part, lets say your raid goes through and clears it with zero deaths. They should be able to get an achievement through a quest (which is what they should be, in-game, not UI). Maybe its some gold, some flasks/pots/scrolls/consumables, maybe mount/pet/title/tabard, or a final chest drop where they can pick a loot drop from a selection for each player (nothing crazy op maybe). You can have two dungeon modes while leveling, you talk to a npc at the beginning saying we won't need faction reinforcements to save us and then each player can select loot that drops. An incentive for the higher stakes gameplay, a high risk/high reward system. Something that all players need to opt in with the npc. Or the other mode where if you get down to 1 or 0 hp, your character gets "downed". So, let's say your character is downed and each class that can res can only do so once during the run, but there is no res available so you get ported out and the group is down 1 person. They can try to 4 man it, or just give up for the day and try again tomorrow.
Awesome ideas here and really good argument for petri flask alternatives I haven’t heard this before!
@@ksadjdadjaifen lmao thank you I've been thinking about it a lot and I'm sure there's many grammatical errors there making it more difficult to read.
@@SardacoTV yeah I'm thinking about trying to make a video on this. My predictions were correct they went with the least effort possible by just disabling resurrection. It's probably the best move for them to not go heavy handed. I'm sure their devs are already thinking about the problems, like unable to do bgs which they can work around with a round based pvp system like a cs go plant the bomb but as ctf in wsg. Instead of death, 1 hp and you're out that round. I predict we might get those complaints later but so many people will love leveling over and over for months while the top 10% of gamers actually raiding will see the drawbacks at 60. Really cool to see makgora but I can't imagine many people doing this besides like 10 and 20 dueling tournaments 😂
They could simply announce WotLK Phase 3 drop date and Joyous Journeys timeframe. It is a promise to have some "classic talk" not HC talk.
Great video. Have a sub.
Hey genius the dev is going to be with the HARDCORE streamers making an announcement. Its not rocket science.
I could use some advice from someone that was near the HC raiding scene. I would love to play a warrior tank but it seemed like half of all HC 60's were warriors in the addon. However from your screenshot of the raid signup sheet It looks like there were only 2 warrior tanks and 4 druid tanks. Is there a lack of warrior tanks at 60? I would hate to go through the pain of leveling a HC warrior just to find out I can't tank because there are too many other warrior tanks.
Pls if anybody knows. Tell me S2
I did manage to find a warrior that raided on the mod. He said that while there are many warriors at 60, the amount that actually want to tank is low. so if you want to be a primary tank there is very little competition. On top of that (and this is my own guesswork) I would assume that tanks are the most likely to die so there are probably always available positions or soon will be.@@Cabelius
@@steen_is_adrift What class would you recommend me? I´m totally lost with so many ideas hahaha
Whatever class you tell me I´ll play it. (I´ve always played hunter in every game all my life, my main in wow is a hunter but don´t want to play it on this occassion). I want to be top in set on the SV.
Taking into account that tanks are the most likealy to die... Kinda don´t want that for me xd
Not so sure I will be so stoked on hardcore but may check it out. I am sure my cohorts will want to give it a shot!!! Great vid!!
Why are locks so few? Isnt the voidwalker great for survivability?
Tedium of soul shards and creating health stones for raids. Also, some people find the spell rotation / party play style boring.
If I wanted to raid at 60 again then definitely not HC. Even with a non HC raid there are problems with the roster because you always need more people than there are raidslots. The logistics of raiding are really annoying in classic even without HC.
HC raiding just means loot council overlords deciding your fate.
We don't have loot council.
It wont be the same on official servers. One thing that's off putting for player made hardcore is having to leran all the addon and rules..etc hardcore servers being more easy to get into will increase the player count and increase the amount of guilds trying to raid at 60
My problem with raiding is lack of build diversity. Everyone has the same build, everything is minmaxed. I like niche builds that are personally enjoyable to me, but can’t raid in any of them.
That isn't a problem with the game. It's a problem with people. Welcome to humanity.
@@anthonyfaiell3263 I didn't say it is a problem with the game, but "with raiding". Raiding is game+people :)
@@danielgruszczyk2232 yep thats what i found out 2, in vanilla no 1 cared we just had the crazzy mix, now you have to min max as the standard.
Yes, it will be the same, I have played hardcore with all my characters since 2004, when I die it´s over. The only times I have bent those rules were deaths due to technical glitches like disconnections.
Grouping with randoms gets you killed and most classes simply lack that "ooh shit" button, Rogues have "vanish" and Hunters have "feign death", both abilities that let you escape certain death if you are a bit clever about it, other classes have escape mechanics but they are limited in scope. The rogue is far more fragile though and will meet his demise unless very careful, the hunter is the only class with that double layer, pet and feign death. You should never die if you don´t group up and do things without rushing, a hunters main enemy on his way to 60 is his arrogance when things become a bit too easy.
Whenever I reached 60 I toggled permadeath off simply due to "mission accomplished", on official hardcore servers I would just sit and flex somewhere unless I was ready to lose my character.
What a nice video I actually haven’t been selected for zg yet I’m so sad xd
Don't level a warlock if you intend to have an easy time finding a group at endgame. For raids their dps is crap unless you're at least AQ40 geared and are only invited for banish for MC, summons, curse of recklessness for melee and curse of elements for mages, very rarely for curse of shadows, due to most of the time there not being enough people to benefit from it. This means that typically there are at most 3 open slots for warlocks per any raid 40 or 25 man.
If you want higher chance of getting in, then consider rolling by order of highest chance of invite adjusted based on experience: holy priest, dps warrior, healing shaman, healing pala, rogue, healing druid, mage, warrior tank, hunter, warlock, druid tank, dps priest, dps druid, dps shaman, dps paladin.
Tanking is often competitive to get into 40-man raids, unlike dungeons and 20-25-mans.
I'm surprised there aren't more warlocks, isn't warlock kinda easy to level too?
After about 30 it's easier...up to 30 very easy to get over confident and you know...die.
cool to see other peoples views on hc, im not gonna play anymore vanilla. but it's interesting to see the people doing this
only way blizz can fix this is - rebalance the raids to be 25 man and 10 man respectively. it will reduce player strain between guilds and allow for a more diverse guild market.
I can tell you exactly how HC is going to go for me. Spend the next few weeks agonising about what class to play, use a Randomiser to choose a class, die before level 15. Repeat until somehow I magically get a class to 40, get bored and quit.
HC is about the Journey not the destination. if you don't delete and go agane at 60 you doin it wrong. Great video BTW Sardaco!!!
Why is there no locks? One of the easiest to lvl like hunter and do good dps in raid plus provide porting/health stones
Farming soul shards and being a summon bot is soul crushing
Sounds like it's a problem for good players 90 percent won't even make it past pre bis farm
love the greys for days clip. haha stop running in noob. 10/10 sardaco
leveling HC is cool...but Endgame HC is a waste of lifetime for an average player with a job,family,friends and other hobbies 😂
My plan is to level a farmer hunter alt to 60 (tailor/skin for bagz) then dropping them for mining/alch, and maybe becoming a guild alchemist, who never raids so no risk to die and losing flask patterns, but I can still mine ocassionally and run into cleared scholo/bwl for flaskmaking, otherwise just being in a city for transmute CDs. Also will lvl a restodruid skin/herb, maybe can skin onyxia (if I get a +knife) after got killed, no prob if I get saved entering, though I wonder if I get in, get summoned, skin and using a mageportal out withing the 1 min counter makes me saved) and can heal in 20 mans. Restodruids are the best healers if played right but because of same HoTs not stacking and buff/debuff limits they are not too good, max 1 or 2 per raid so I must pass on that dream. Finally, doing a raid-support afflilock "main" (tailor/engi), support because of the same reason, debuff limits, no corr or other dots allowed only cor coe etc so cant rly be top dps unless aoeing, but its fine, they bring us for raid-boosting :) OFc I must lvl many to 60, but I definetely agree, so no plans on maining a hunter, or maybe a second one...
99% of ppl aren't playing HC for endgame, or will ever make it there so I don't think this is a huge issue
Raiding is definitely one of the worst aspects of these private servers. I have been playing for 20 years, not actively, but still. Raiding was the most frustrating experience ever, starting from world buffs, gold dkp, hard/soft reserves, no places and etc.
can somebody explain why almost no warlocks?
Dying at level 60 with pre-best-in-slot gear and then having to level up again is asking too much of me. I still have to eat and pay my bills!
The majority of players not choosing to do end game raid speaks for itself
Are they gonna announce SoM this Saturday?
need new endgame content, plain and simple. Been doing the same boring raids for almost 20 years now.
Some of the rules of SSF I find a bit restrictive. I’d prefer limited trading among people of a similar level, would be nice to stimulate a separate hardcore economy.
Means not everyone has to go alchemy OR engineering. Like the fact you can’t even trade mage food is kinda silly to me.
Great video and you make some great points. Makes me feel good being a Warlock main though :P
SOM 2 will also have regular and PVP servers, not Just HC. I will Level and Raid on a PVP server where I can also do BG's and other activities with my toon, not just raid log. If I get bored I will make another HC character after I have a raiding 60 on a real server that only raid logs or pvp's.
Make a video trying to persuade others to swap from your gear spec. Nicely done. I normally just raid lead to choose who's in rather than go this far.
I hope they add a ssf option on character screen so I dont have to feel pressured to do dungeons/raids
Well.. the HC challenge we’re all about reaching level 60, that’s it. The raiding is an additional bonus. I think Blizz ain’t gonna put their nails in too deep. I think they’re gonna make it so, when you’re dead, your dead, and perhaps a few other things. But that’s it. I think there’s going to be a fraction in the community. I think there’s gonna be a faction playing under the same custom rules at present, and I think the buzz about the HC is going to attract people where the server official wow server is enough on itself, and that’s also gonna pull from the current community. I think there’s going to be a rift.
HC is a very interesting concept but I ended up stopping mid 40s on a warrior out of boredom. I mean how many times can I press that same rotation buttons without it becoming stale? Haven't touched it in a few weeks now.
if they put any sort of XP boost in HC classic, they are not clear in head xD . Even SOM
Great perspective, thanks for sharing.
Warlocks are OP, but you have to do too many things as a Warlock, and you have more Skills than other Classes (need to press more buttons) + Your pet is worse than the Hunters pet. I played a High Warlord Warlock in Classic WOW. It was fun :)
hardcore endgame is neat, but it was never the idea behind the challenge until big/flashy streamers got involved. the leveling to 60 is the main challenge, and if folks want to try raiding and such- great. In that thought though, I think petri potions and other shenanigans used to avoid death are lame. Play softcore at that point.
i love HC in principle but personally there's no way id be willing to entrust 39 people with the life of the character i spent dozen of hours meticulously leveling and gearing. guilds continuously losing members also make it seem like it's going to be very unsustainable once the thrill of HC dies down... :/ lowkey they could use HC servers as an opportunity to attempt to rework the end game altogether.
One reason warlock isnt as prominent, i imagine, is because of the debuff slot limit. However, on the official hardcore server, there will be no limit. So, multiple affliction locks could, in theory, be in a single group.
Why, did you, use so many commas?
You can never have too many warriors in classic/vanilla wow. Top dps, best tanks, scale best and less of them will make it to 60.
have never really cared about endgame... ever. I've always done pvp at max level (non-HC of course) or just done gathering grinding / amusing activities until I decided to start another toon and level again. That's been my "M.O." since 1999 in MMORPGs
I have to say every group I have been in that has had an issue where we had to run or had a person die was from a hunter pulling some stuff with their pet or other dumb stuff. I will no longer do dungeons with a non guild hunter.
Why not many warlocks? That class is easy to level to 60 as a 1-lifer.
they are gimped by debuff limit and the hardcore rule set takes away soulstone
Levelling a warrior now. Took a long time to get the mats for the ww weapon, and got it at 36. But then one of my first quests after was in desolace to get the quest for SM to get bone biter. Kind of a bummer knowing a weapon I spent hours to get would be outclassed in another 2-3 levels. And farming "pre-bis," getting buffs etc is so much worse which is one reason I like HC...yu only do each instance once. So as I type here, fishing in Tanaris I'm left wondering how much longer I will be playing Classic in any form. I wish they would come out with different leveling experiences for classic to provide something new to experience while leveling.
This isnt new news to anyone. Do yall not remember how many warriors/rogues there were in classic vanilla. They benefit from WBs better than any other class. I for one believe that yall shouldnt sleep on feral (ally only) or ret pally. On short fights, ret can pump hard af.
So if there is a wipe while raiding @lvl 60 hardcore, that's it? You're whole raid team is deleted?
I would play HC if I could do pvp in open world and battlegrounds. I usually do pvp and it would be great if they implemented rule that if you die vs other player, you don't lose ability to level again. Also they should keep in mind that if another player damages you amd if you die vs mobs, that should not count as death.
What did you do to farm gold on HC? I imagine things like DM Tribute would be off the table.
Im playing in private hc serv cuz' cannt afford to pay offi. Been around a week or so in this hc hype, died More rhan 10 times AND this i wanted to know what class to play in order to help endgame. Thanks 4 vid 🤙
Sounds like most, if not all, of these problems would be solved if you made your own raiding guild.
Ok pardon my ignorance but why cant a raid mix change to have more hunters? Maybe there is higher chance of death but why play the always same meta setup?
Ofc it's hard to get a raid spot when every fresh lvl 60 is being funneled into these official elite guilds.
On official servers it will be different story because there will be more guilds and more competition.
On official launch just play the class you like playing the most, simple. GL HF and stay safe.
For raiding I'd want to go to a regular Classic server. Raiding takes a lot of chemistry developing. You get that wiping a lot as you learn how your fellow raiders play.
While HC is limited to US east, there's no real option to play if you're not near that time zone, let alone raid.
i dont mind being attuned for raid and not being choosen so you can play and level up an alt, if you dont wanna level another character then what you gonna do when you die?
raided for most of SoM and getting all the prebis and always having enough consumables for raids was like a part time job lol. fully understand that ppl that hit 60 just go again instead of trying to raid.
I see a lot of warlocks leveling. Do they die before 60? :o (I am also playing warlock)
Eating my pizza here, and as soon as you said that you level a hunter - in combination with the title "endgame" - I knew what you are talking about.
After a couple of minutes: "Sooo many hunters! All warriors! No druids!" - no sh*t bro. This was the same in WoW vanills years back then lol.
And warlock spots are also small.
You really shouldn't worry about hunter raid spots. As soon as they get their leaf they're dead and a spot frees up.
My only Argument is hardcore isn't really meant for people who enjoy the end game, sure it would be great to get all biz gear but the real fun and challenge is Lvling. My goal is lvl 60 on every class
The only thing im worried about are the unavoidable greifing methods that kills you.