12:26 somebody did once there's a quote about it "You think mercy is for the weak? 'Twas Shallya's mercy healed my broken arm so I could lead the vanguard against the Beastmen in our last campaign. You saying that makes me weak? Think carefully before you answer, lad...'
Also on the thing about Shallya; nothing prevents a follower of Shallya to be accompanied by, say, a follower of Ulric. You know, in case they happen to meet a chaos worshiper. Just because the peace and love cult isn't supposed to deliver righteous vengeance doesn't mean their friend can't.
There was an anecdote about Shallyan nuns in WFRP who were the sweetest and kindliest women imaginable, until they went into complete berserker frenzy upon encountering a band of nurgle worshippers. Good times and always catches players offguard.
Ranald's ascension is almost at the level of Cayden Cailean from Pathfinder. Long story short, in the main metropolis of the setting there is a stone that you can touch to become a god after you pass a trial. He went out drinking with his friends and woke up as a god with a hangover. Let me state again, he went on a drunken bender, followed by a missing scene and woke up as a god.
@@MegaGothrocker I started with Pathfinder recently and mostly only through the information on Archive of Nethys. If Paizo has some extra lore books I would love to get them.
@@theliato3809 Ranald was the god of luck, trickery, fortune, mischief, and freedom, as well as being the god of thieves and tricksters. Also adds some context to ranalds bones from vermintide. Makes sense that the god of trickery would have a dice game made for him.
For the lols: Sigmarite fanatic: “DRINKING, BEDDING AND NUDITY IS SINFUL ACCORDING TO SIGMAR!” Sigmar a half naked barbarian with a lass on one hand and in a drinking contest with a dwarf: “I beg your pardon?”
Sigmar wasn't much of a womanizer, he's only ever been with two women. One was the love of his life who died and he vowed never to love another woman after her, and the other was a warrior-queen who he slept with to get her to join the Empire and was purely done as a political move (which resulted in Sigmar's secret line of descendants who Volkmar is the last survivor of). Though there is a noticeable hypocrisy in that the Priests of Sigmar all shave their heads when Sigmar himself grew his hair out.
@@interdimensionalcommunicat9750 Okay I didn’t know that, but the point stands that he wouldn’t have problems with people having relationships in moderation.
Khaine being considered a classical god despite him being an elf god just feels like he snuck in and is wearing the disguises you see lego characters wear when you enable disguises and you can tell just who is behind that poor attempt at a disguise. And while, yes, due to some humans worshipping him classifies him as a classical god, I can't help but imagine it's him trying to branch out from eldar on eldar violence and into different markets to compete with Khorne's monopoly as he wears a thinly veil that is his disguise as he attends the meeting of classical gods and he paid Mor 20 bucks to lie and say he's his brother to the other classical gods
@@spartanx9293 That was strongly implied in the Tome of Salvation from the 2nd edition of WFRP. There's mentions of Taal and Rhya having formerly been worshipped under names that were pretty clearly variations of Isha and Kernous, an old fable that's a garbled version of an elven legend where Verena is performing a deed that would be normally associated with Hoeth, and so on - I think there might even be the odd mention of the Lizardmen gods in those old fables as well. However, there's also a passage where a human scholar has noted that the Elves say they were created by the Old Ones and by their gods, asked a High Elf scholar he was in correspondence with to help resolve the discrepancy, and the High Elf responded with something along the lines of "both accounts are correct, but the Old Ones are not the same as the gods of my people". Which is something I tend to interpret as the Old Ones having performed the physical act of creation, but the Elven gods shaped their culture. My personal interpretation is that just as the gods can fuse together, they can also split apart. So Tepok is the original wisdom figure, and in addition to the actual physical Old One, there is also an entity in the warp that is Tepok as worshipped by the Lizardmen, which might now have little resemblance to the original Tepok. Hoeth was inspired from the Elven perspective of Tepok, but they imagined the deity of wisdom in their own image and with more of their own values, so a second version split off. Finally, the human god of wisdom could have split off either from Hoeth, or from humanity's own garbled perspective of Tepok. (The latter might be more likely in this case, since the original Tepok's gender being undefined allows elves and humans to independently assign different genders to their respective deities of knowledge.)
Fun fact; Khaine first appeared as a "lesser" Chaos God called Kaine in 2nd edition's Warhammer Armies, where the Witch Elves were actually the Dark Elven priestesses of Chaos as a whole. The idea that Khaine might be an elven name for Khorne first appeared in 4th edition, and floated back and forth until 7e or 8e, when the Cadai and Cytharai elven pantheons were introduced to the lore.
As a teenager, i liked 40k. I liked it a lot. Now im 21, And i cant get enough of warhammer fantasy. Its honestly More well written, humans arent horrific, people are not Always just burning everything that is different than them (altough that happens) And we have The skaven in this setting. Fantasy is supreme, because gelt is in this setting. Also, such is The power of nagash.
I've always preferred fantasy, since it mostly manages to avoid full-on grimderp. But the grimderp was doing better, so Games Workshop decided to try to make fantasy like that as well, which was probably a factor in putting it into a death spiral. (40k having a lower barrier to entry probably also helped - you can have a satisfying game with fewer models in 40k than in fantasy)
it's kind of a online gamble watching your videos because I WANT to see Halo (winning money) but it's usually just you taking about not-halo (losing all my money)
There's a line about Ranald in Vermintide that I love. If Sienna goes down a bunch, this conversation can happen. Kerillian: Not your lucky day wizard. Sienna: Get me back up, and I'll show Ranald not to mess with me. Kruber: Ohhh careful Sienna. Don't provoke that bloke. Fingers crossed.
Thank you Mr pant crease no fold. You've been my favorite youtuber to just have on autoplay cause every video is the same S Tier slop I crave and thrive on. You are supreme
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine one doesnt exist due to copyright being the only thing that can truly outclass the warp the other exists but gets ignored because hes gws version and the writers dont wanna use him or gw doesnt because bad writers/gw hates the character hes basically schrodingers chaos god he both exists but doesnt
thankfully fantasy doesnt have as much of the issues 40k writing has of writers being allowed to retcon and shit on each others works willy nilly its a far and above more cohesive setting and thanks to this channel i now love it more then 40k
@Nomadic_ Gaming Fantasy is leaps and bounds above the other 2 for my favourite WH setting, but there have been a lot of retcons and different authors having different interpretations of Fantasy. The most concise and airtight(for GW) setting is AOS.
@@Nomadic_Gaming I kinda wonder how much of that is WHF just taking its own spin on western fantasy vs 40K starting out as a more paradoxical in space deal then getting more serious and having to figure out a lot of its sci fi cosmology long after the fact
You know I think a Warhammer Fantasy RPG in the style of the Elder Scrolls games would do well. Maybe with a slightly different leveling and enemy scaling system. Choose your race, choose which alignment you start with Chaos/Order. And your country of origin. Then go out on an adventure and hopefully survive with your limbs, soul, and sanity intact. Maybe party with Gotrek and Felix for a side quest or two.
I am the only person listening to this while standing out in the frigid snow, tending to livestock… I would worship a chaos God if it meant not having to do this
Freezing in a west texas solar farm...I vote we go for Slaanesh. Get the goods of all the others and still not look to bad while we do. Who else agrees?
There were elven colonies all over the place, and elven gods aren't that above dealing with humans. It might be that even nehekharans somehow contacted Asuryan and Lileath, of all gods.
I think it was scorpions that are Khaine's symbol. Interestingly the Nehekharan god of murders Sokth is also represented by Scorpions. Whether or not that means anything we can only guess.
Interestingly, there's evidence that the story of Ranald's ascension is another one of his tricks. It's from an older TTRPG book, Second Edition's Tome of Salvation, but it's interesting and personally I like how it muddies the waters in a way fitting for a trickster god. It goes like this: And I said: Can you tell me the tale of Ranald, and how he achieved godhood? And the child replied: Yes. The Greatest Trick. A well-known tale. Ranaldans claim that, when mortal, Ranald was a bandit; a gentle soul who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor. This so enchanted Shallya that she fell in love, ensnared by the romance of Ranald's deeds. One night, when distributing supplies to victims of the Fly Lord, Ranald fell dreadfully ill, and was approached by Morr. Shallya could not bear the loss of her love, so she stole Ranald from her father's grasp in the only way she knew how: she let him drink from her holy Chalice, and granted him immortality. Ranald, now a god, laughed at Shallya's naivety. He admitted to the crying goddess that he had never been sick at all, and that he had manipulated her from the beginning. And I said: So, the tale is true? And the child replied: No. It is false. The greatest trick Ranald ever pulled was convincing Humanity that he had ever been one of them. -The Testament of Pergunda, "On Righting Wrongs
My favorite interpretations of the Renald ascension is that Shallya was like, 99% certain that Renald was lying about being sick. Which would fit in the theme of Shallya being merciful to a fault, but naive in a way that isn't dumb: cause like, being the god of healing and treating disease would probs like give her SOME insight into if Renald was sick with Nurglitis or not via supernatural means. This isn't to say that Renald was bad at the con, far from it, he was beyond amazing to make the LITERAL GODDESS OF HEALING have even a sliver of doubt that he was actually sick, and knew her nature enough that this one percent of doubt was enough for her to not risk it. He read his mark, called her reaction, and got what he wanted without any bad blood from the tricked. Even if that last bit is because Shallya is merciful as a job description, still my favorite way of understanding how a man can trick a god.
Now, if Shallya is so merciful and can just give one eternal life (not even talking about divine powers), why doesn't she just do that? Either she doesn't have the power (lost or never had in the first place), or she doesn't want to for some very important reason.
@SMT-ks8yp it's actually explained in lore funnily enough! Now this may not be a fully accurate recalling/retelling but from what I understand; Since Shallya is ghe child of Morr (God of the dead), and Shallya constantly suffers from the suffering of the mortals: Morr has to do two things: 1) Advise her that she has to limit how many people she personally intervenes to help, such that they avoid the case where nobody dies anymore which would lead to its own can of worms.. 2) he can't visit her often, because he legit felt himself folding on rule 1 when seeing how much sorrow his daughter was feeling, so he stays away from her alot so he doesn't break his own domain This, from only what I can assume, is used to explain why Shallya doesn't CONSTANTLY intervene constantly (mandate from her father) and also why she can intervene at all to prevent some deaths (her father can't/doesn't constantly monitor her for the above reasons, or he folds from time to time sometimes when he catches her)
That ending bit reminds me of a campaign idea I had where someone (originally the party when it was a one-shot pitch) messed with a group of Kuo-toa bad enough to pray into existence a world ending monster (was going to be Leviathan) and now the party has work with a second group of Kuo-toa quickly to get them to bring into being a beast that can kill the first one.
Hot take: Handrich is actually a chaos god. He has an aspect of telling his followers to go out and outsteal... I mean outdeal everyone including their fellow cultists, and if they fail, well, tough luck. If you look at the Big Four, their followers also furiously fight each other for attention of their gods and strip themselves of everything that doesn't help in getting it, even when it comes to supposedly chill Nurgle. And even if it isn't true, it sounds like a good reason to take back Marienburg and crack down on these burghers who try to buy their way into politics.
I really hope we get a video featuring the best god of Old Warhammer, Ursun. God of bears whose primary blessing is bear. To be fair, Kislev makes good use of that.
Pancreas, since the new Phoenix Lord of the Warp Spiders were revealed awhile ago, Im sure your preparing the inevitable Video on the Phoenix Lords when the new codex comes out, Right?
Oh yea, there's the Ancient Roman Empire in Warhammer. Guess what Pancreas, they even referenced that Celts used to live across Bretonnia, the lands of the Empire and Albion. One can imagine how that went between the Celts and the Remans.
12:40 You forgot my favourite example "You..." _PUNCH_ "do not..." *KICK* "steal from..." *_STOMP_* "...the temples of Shallya..." -A Talabheim thief, Explaining Professional Ethics to a Colleague
"Justice trumps the law, because it's the spirit rather than the letter that matters", "It's not their duty to judge who isn't and is deserving of Shallya's mercy - only to deliver it", "Do what you must, but when the enemy surrenders, you must treat them well", "No honour amongst thieves, but there is among Ranaldens". I'm genuinely shocked that Warhammer has a pantheon of gods that can be considered morally good (Aside from that last one). Warhammer! Of all things!
Shallya mentioned! My Scout had her as her primary goddess, serving as the moral compass to the traditional psychopaths you'd find in a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay party and was such a rare patch of noblebrightness that it helped keep us from getting TOO taken advantage of. Even if she was a bit of a Bretonniaboo, but when you come from the Outla-I mean Border Princes it's difficult to not have AN opinion on them. A funny bit about how that campaign ended, we had hunted down an exiled dark elf after she was doing some Slaaneshi fleshshaping shit with the local Beastmen. We found out she'd killed and pickled the local count's wife in order to use scraps of her body to magically pose as her, and after some verbal finesse to not get framed for that crime by her, we had the count's entire guard coming down on her as she spammed out spells left and right. As we had her cornered my character gave a short prayer to Shallya that if Morr's death can be merciful than let this mercy be granted so even such a warped soul need not suffer further torment and torture. She missed, the elf got gunned down, and slowly suffocated to death from a collapsed lung and drowning in her own blood. Shallya absolutely has lines of who does and does not deserve mercy.
With how much it felt like they were building up Sienna's reverence for Myrmidia throughout Vermintide 2, I was really hoping we would get a kickass Paladin of Myrmidia Sienna as a dlc career. I'm sure there's an actual unit name that would be used, but I don't play tabletop so I wouldn't know it. Instead, she has half her personality shunted away and replaced with her sisters and she becomes a necromancer. Fat L, Fat Shark.
If GW had worked on more of the early history of humanity on 40k I wouldn’t be surprised to see them add the old and new gods as fellow dieties of humanity that hung out with the Number 1 Mom and Dad duo.
I just want to give a shout out to the warhammer fantasy roleplay book. Theyve done more to revive warhammer fantasy than even total warhammer but the books also delve into areas previously left void. In earlier printing of the rpg they barely gave the other gods a page but 4th has gone and made careers (classes for thise who wrent familiar) to most dieties so far.
Mr Pancreas, with the announcement of the Gundam Assemble tabletop wargame making Gundam tangentially related to Warhammer, I now demand a series of Gundam lore videos, specifically on Newtypes and those bastards at Anaheim Electronics
Me hearing about Renald: is he Cayden Cailean? Because he kinda sounds like him No drunken fortitude to godhood (Cayden drunkenly stumbled upon an artifatct in a dungeon that gave him godhood, dodging deathly traps and encounters, no kidding) but still....
I love the idea of the God of Trade being a re4 merchant-type person, someone who you just happen to deal with every once in a while and rewards fair offers with generous offers. The Indian guys who run the newsagents just casually being minor deities
Now im imagining a twin duo in a wh rpg game where one is a healer of shallya and the other is a worrior of myrmidia and they travel around battlefields helping anyone who will take it and they work with the loosing army as commanders as long as their morals are true. And over the years they become a legend that ties the two gods together as a Artemis and apolo type twin saints idea.
Heck yeah, I was just rewatching the Old Gods video the other day.wondering about the next installment. Super excited to start watching TIL Warhammer Fantasy RPG is still being published. Funny, literally yesterday I was wondering why the Skaven Wars books mentioned humans invoking Khaine. This video had fantastic timing
Called Khaine - mostly because I have the relevant 2nd edition WFRP sourcebook. Which, incidentally, also strongly implied that the elven and human gods were the same pantheon through different lenses (which becomes interesting when you consider that this includes the deity of wisdom and the deity of death switching genders, but since they BOTH switch genders it can still be presented as a conventional relationship), but GW evidently decided to take a different route with the End Times. Incidentally, go back far enough and Khaine being Khorne wasn't just implied - around the time the Witch Elves were first released, there was an article about how the Witch Elves were part of a Khorne cult which had been taking over Dark Elf society from the decadent Slaanesh-worshippers among the old Dark Elf nobility, driving the Dark Elves into a new wave of aggression against the Sea Elves (which back then were still semi-distinct from the High Elves). Which is why, if you find Witch Elf models that are old enough, some of them have the symbol of Khaine on them.
Every damn time I see one of Pancreas's WHF videos I remember that I bought the Warhammer Fantasy RPG Humble Bundle and that I should read the books... Now more than ever since he mentioned it like 4 times
I always liked the idea that Khorne and Khaine share something. Perhaps it was Khorne trying to influence the elves but something got lost in translation. Perhaps they were the same thing once in the primordial long, long ago but split at some point with Khaine being molded by the Elves/Elven gods.
Check out Brilliant today! Use brilliant.org/PancreasNoWork/ to not only try it for free for 30 days but get 20% off your annual plan
Did you hear about the doom slayer and halo crossover That was going to be on Amazon Secret level
But Microsoft said no
Thanquol video when?
I also want you to talk more about elves.
Especially how Tiber Septim treatem them,
Please, a video finally explaining why historians are THAT superiour in bed.
Be careful there is a telegram like bot pretending to be pancreas
12:26 somebody did once there's a quote about it
"You think mercy is for the weak? 'Twas Shallya's mercy healed my broken arm so I could lead the vanguard against the Beastmen in our last campaign. You saying that makes me weak? Think carefully before you answer, lad...'
Yeah. *Breaks his arms again.*
@@imperatordrakon6488roll me a (30-1d100)/10 real quick please
Also on the thing about Shallya; nothing prevents a follower of Shallya to be accompanied by, say, a follower of Ulric. You know, in case they happen to meet a chaos worshiper. Just because the peace and love cult isn't supposed to deliver righteous vengeance doesn't mean their friend can't.
There was an anecdote about Shallyan nuns in WFRP who were the sweetest and kindliest women imaginable, until they went into complete berserker frenzy upon encountering a band of nurgle worshippers. Good times and always catches players offguard.
Ranald's ascension is almost at the level of Cayden Cailean from Pathfinder.
Long story short, in the main metropolis of the setting there is a stone that you can touch to become a god after you pass a trial.
He went out drinking with his friends and woke up as a god with a hangover.
Let me state again, he went on a drunken bender, followed by a missing scene and woke up as a god.
Are there novels to read about this?!? Cos I need them!!!
What kind of god did he become?
@@MegaGothrocker I started with Pathfinder recently and mostly only through the information on Archive of Nethys.
If Paizo has some extra lore books I would love to get them.
Too drunk to give a shit about mortals seems pretty godly
@@theliato3809 Ranald was the god of luck, trickery, fortune, mischief, and freedom, as well as being the god of thieves and tricksters. Also adds some context to ranalds bones from vermintide. Makes sense that the god of trickery would have a dice game made for him.
For the lols: Sigmarite fanatic: “DRINKING, BEDDING AND NUDITY IS SINFUL ACCORDING TO SIGMAR!”
Sigmar a half naked barbarian with a lass on one hand and in a drinking contest with a dwarf: “I beg your pardon?”
Sigmar wasn't much of a womanizer, he's only ever been with two women. One was the love of his life who died and he vowed never to love another woman after her, and the other was a warrior-queen who he slept with to get her to join the Empire and was purely done as a political move (which resulted in Sigmar's secret line of descendants who Volkmar is the last survivor of).
Though there is a noticeable hypocrisy in that the Priests of Sigmar all shave their heads when Sigmar himself grew his hair out.
@@interdimensionalcommunicat9750 Okay I didn’t know that, but the point stands that he wouldn’t have problems with people having relationships in moderation.
Sigmar only ever loved 1 women in his life and only ever slept with 1 other.
And that women was Azazels sister.
Khaine being considered a classical god despite him being an elf god just feels like he snuck in and is wearing the disguises you see lego characters wear when you enable disguises and you can tell just who is behind that poor attempt at a disguise.
And while, yes, due to some humans worshipping him classifies him as a classical god, I can't help but imagine it's him trying to branch out from eldar on eldar violence and into different markets to compete with Khorne's monopoly as he wears a thinly veil that is his disguise as he attends the meeting of classical gods and he paid Mor 20 bucks to lie and say he's his brother to the other classical gods
I like the idea that the human and elf gods are related kinda like LOTR where eru is everybodys god
@@spartanx9293 That was strongly implied in the Tome of Salvation from the 2nd edition of WFRP. There's mentions of Taal and Rhya having formerly been worshipped under names that were pretty clearly variations of Isha and Kernous, an old fable that's a garbled version of an elven legend where Verena is performing a deed that would be normally associated with Hoeth, and so on - I think there might even be the odd mention of the Lizardmen gods in those old fables as well.
However, there's also a passage where a human scholar has noted that the Elves say they were created by the Old Ones and by their gods, asked a High Elf scholar he was in correspondence with to help resolve the discrepancy, and the High Elf responded with something along the lines of "both accounts are correct, but the Old Ones are not the same as the gods of my people". Which is something I tend to interpret as the Old Ones having performed the physical act of creation, but the Elven gods shaped their culture.
My personal interpretation is that just as the gods can fuse together, they can also split apart. So Tepok is the original wisdom figure, and in addition to the actual physical Old One, there is also an entity in the warp that is Tepok as worshipped by the Lizardmen, which might now have little resemblance to the original Tepok. Hoeth was inspired from the Elven perspective of Tepok, but they imagined the deity of wisdom in their own image and with more of their own values, so a second version split off. Finally, the human god of wisdom could have split off either from Hoeth, or from humanity's own garbled perspective of Tepok. (The latter might be more likely in this case, since the original Tepok's gender being undefined allows elves and humans to independently assign different genders to their respective deities of knowledge.)
*learns about Shallyas wholesomeness
*remembers the VT2 level in her temple
*cried
*Learns about Ranald's tricster nature
*Remembers the "gift" after the perfect run in VT2 that left it juuuust below the box upgrade
*Curses
Where is my clone trooper propaganda, Pancreas? I WAS PROMISED CLONE TROOPER PROPAGANDA!
why are you a dog
Star Wars on PancreasNoWork? This I must see.
@@christianbryan6961 search for the republic comando video on his channel, unless it was brought down you will find it.
Fun fact; Khaine first appeared as a "lesser" Chaos God called Kaine in 2nd edition's Warhammer Armies, where the Witch Elves were actually the Dark Elven priestesses of Chaos as a whole. The idea that Khaine might be an elven name for Khorne first appeared in 4th edition, and floated back and forth until 7e or 8e, when the Cadai and Cytharai elven pantheons were introduced to the lore.
As a teenager, i liked 40k. I liked it a lot.
Now im 21, And i cant get enough of warhammer fantasy.
Its honestly More well written, humans arent horrific, people are not Always just burning everything that is different than them (altough that happens) And we have The skaven in this setting.
Fantasy is supreme, because gelt is in this setting.
Also, such is The power of nagash.
Such is the Power of Nagash
nagash is mighty the true ruler of fantasy
sadly for him the best best rce skaven exist yes yes
Such is the power of Nagash
I've always preferred fantasy, since it mostly manages to avoid full-on grimderp. But the grimderp was doing better, so Games Workshop decided to try to make fantasy like that as well, which was probably a factor in putting it into a death spiral.
(40k having a lower barrier to entry probably also helped - you can have a satisfying game with fewer models in 40k than in fantasy)
@@Draxynnic Not to mention that 40k is also much more wide-spread. You will more likely FIND a game of 40k than fantasay.
it's kind of a online gamble watching your videos because I WANT to see Halo (winning money) but it's usually just you taking about not-halo (losing all my money)
Battle tech fan: You guys get videos?
Your loss is my WIN!
Then I must just be the homeless guy who snuck in cause I’m just happy to be here regardless 😂
How long until we see Trench Crusade videos?
I just won i only come here for the Wh fantasy
There's a line about Ranald in Vermintide that I love. If Sienna goes down a bunch, this conversation can happen.
Kerillian: Not your lucky day wizard.
Sienna: Get me back up, and I'll show Ranald not to mess with me.
Kruber: Ohhh careful Sienna. Don't provoke that bloke. Fingers crossed.
Thank you Mr pant crease no fold. You've been my favorite youtuber to just have on autoplay cause every video is the same S Tier slop I crave and thrive on. You are supreme
Me: does the video contain M...
Chaos: you're on a thin ice right there, buddy!
what
@@garygordle5146 Malal/Malice the Chaos god that may or may not exist. Because of copyright of all reasons.
@@JeRefuseDeBienPrononcerBaleine
one doesnt exist due to copyright being the only thing that can truly outclass the warp
the other exists but gets ignored because hes gws version and the writers dont wanna use him or gw doesnt because bad writers/gw hates the character
hes basically schrodingers chaos god
he both exists but doesnt
As a 40k fan these types of videos have made fantasy and especially AOS more interesting to me.
thankfully fantasy doesnt have as much of the issues 40k writing has of writers being allowed to retcon and shit on each others works willy nilly
its a far and above more cohesive setting and thanks to this channel i now love it more then 40k
@Nomadic_ Gaming Fantasy is leaps and bounds above the other 2 for my favourite WH setting, but there have been a lot of retcons and different authors having different interpretations of Fantasy. The most concise and airtight(for GW) setting is AOS.
@@Nomadic_Gaming I kinda wonder how much of that is WHF just taking its own spin on western fantasy vs 40K starting out as a more paradoxical in space deal then getting more serious and having to figure out a lot of its sci fi cosmology long after the fact
If you displease the goddess of turning orks orange, she will turn them purple instead.
Oh no.
Is she color blind and she sees orange as green?
@@bongibot1104 purple iz da sneakin color! youz eva seen a purple orc? exactly!
Is Orange the color of rockets in ork society.
Every time you hear "My Cabbages!" you know there's injustice in the world.
It’s true though, that cabbage guy was around whenever some ne’erdowell needed to be chased down
You know I think a Warhammer Fantasy RPG in the style of the Elder Scrolls games would do well. Maybe with a slightly different leveling and enemy scaling system. Choose your race, choose which alignment you start with Chaos/Order. And your country of origin.
Then go out on an adventure and hopefully survive with your limbs, soul, and sanity intact.
Maybe party with Gotrek and Felix for a side quest or two.
Sounds like a crpg would work better especially since the genre's had a bit of a mainstream revival with bg3
Its Teclis' husband again.
I think you mean Teclis' boy-wife
@@seekingabsolution1907 Teclis' femboyfriend.
You mean Teclis' potion boy
I hate this comment with a passion. So obviously have a like
Les't we forget
I am the only person listening to this while standing out in the frigid snow, tending to livestock… I would worship a chaos God if it meant not having to do this
Bad work conditions is the only valid reason to worship chaos
@@Bosshuntman What about Daddy issues?
I'm standing in freezing rain while tending to livestock, does that count?
Freezing in a west texas solar farm...I vote we go for Slaanesh. Get the goods of all the others and still not look to bad while we do. Who else agrees?
A true norscan
The Elve and human gods partially overlapping is very interesting not only with Kaine but also with the similiarities between Manann and Mathlann
It also happens in real life. There a few so many religion in China, japan, korea and Vietnam where Jesus is part of that relgion pantheons
There were elven colonies all over the place, and elven gods aren't that above dealing with humans. It might be that even nehekharans somehow contacted Asuryan and Lileath, of all gods.
I think it was scorpions that are Khaine's symbol. Interestingly the Nehekharan god of murders Sokth is also represented by Scorpions. Whether or not that means anything we can only guess.
Interestingly, there's evidence that the story of Ranald's ascension is another one of his tricks. It's from an older TTRPG book, Second Edition's Tome of Salvation, but it's interesting and personally I like how it muddies the waters in a way fitting for a trickster god. It goes like this:
And I said: Can you tell me the tale of Ranald, and how he achieved godhood?
And the child replied: Yes. The Greatest Trick. A well-known tale. Ranaldans claim that, when mortal, Ranald was a bandit; a gentle soul who robbed from the rich and gave to the poor. This so enchanted Shallya that she fell in love, ensnared by the romance of Ranald's deeds.
One night, when distributing supplies to victims of the Fly Lord, Ranald fell dreadfully ill, and was approached by Morr. Shallya could not bear the loss of her love, so she stole Ranald from her father's grasp in the only way she knew how: she let him drink from her holy Chalice, and granted him immortality.
Ranald, now a god, laughed at Shallya's naivety. He admitted to the crying goddess that he had never been sick at all, and that he had manipulated her from the beginning.
And I said: So, the tale is true?
And the child replied: No. It is false. The greatest trick Ranald ever pulled was convincing Humanity that he had ever been one of them.
-The Testament of Pergunda, "On Righting Wrongs
You had me in the first half of the Myrmidia part, but then you mentioned the Geneva convention
My favorite interpretations of the Renald ascension is that Shallya was like, 99% certain that Renald was lying about being sick. Which would fit in the theme of Shallya being merciful to a fault, but naive in a way that isn't dumb: cause like, being the god of healing and treating disease would probs like give her SOME insight into if Renald was sick with Nurglitis or not via supernatural means.
This isn't to say that Renald was bad at the con, far from it, he was beyond amazing to make the LITERAL GODDESS OF HEALING have even a sliver of doubt that he was actually sick, and knew her nature enough that this one percent of doubt was enough for her to not risk it. He read his mark, called her reaction, and got what he wanted without any bad blood from the tricked. Even if that last bit is because Shallya is merciful as a job description, still my favorite way of understanding how a man can trick a god.
Now, if Shallya is so merciful and can just give one eternal life (not even talking about divine powers), why doesn't she just do that? Either she doesn't have the power (lost or never had in the first place), or she doesn't want to for some very important reason.
@SMT-ks8yp it's actually explained in lore funnily enough! Now this may not be a fully accurate recalling/retelling but from what I understand; Since Shallya is ghe child of Morr (God of the dead), and Shallya constantly suffers from the suffering of the mortals: Morr has to do two things:
1) Advise her that she has to limit how many people she personally intervenes to help, such that they avoid the case where nobody dies anymore which would lead to its own can of worms..
2) he can't visit her often, because he legit felt himself folding on rule 1 when seeing how much sorrow his daughter was feeling, so he stays away from her alot so he doesn't break his own domain
This, from only what I can assume, is used to explain why Shallya doesn't CONSTANTLY intervene constantly (mandate from her father) and also why she can intervene at all to prevent some deaths (her father can't/doesn't constantly monitor her for the above reasons, or he folds from time to time sometimes when he catches her)
@@BlueOddyssey sounds reasonable... unless we can just point at elves. And we, apparently, can't because warhammer elves age, if slowly. Sad.
Learning of Shallya’s fate has further fuelled my disdain for the end times
If Jerek von Carstein can serve Ulrich and not be burned by his flame, I think Abhorash serving Myrmidia is fine
@PancreasNoWork check out this nerd lmao
That ending bit reminds me of a campaign idea I had where someone (originally the party when it was a one-shot pitch) messed with a group of Kuo-toa bad enough to pray into existence a world ending monster (was going to be Leviathan) and now the party has work with a second group of Kuo-toa quickly to get them to bring into being a beast that can kill the first one.
I listened to the entire Gotrek and Felix series on your recommendation. No regrets
Except for Snorri, he had regrets.
So THAT'S who's upgrading my loot at the end of vermintide 2 matches
Hot take: Handrich is actually a chaos god. He has an aspect of telling his followers to go out and outsteal... I mean outdeal everyone including their fellow cultists, and if they fail, well, tough luck. If you look at the Big Four, their followers also furiously fight each other for attention of their gods and strip themselves of everything that doesn't help in getting it, even when it comes to supposedly chill Nurgle.
And even if it isn't true, it sounds like a good reason to take back Marienburg and crack down on these burghers who try to buy their way into politics.
Marienburg belongs to Nordland, and by my decree, they shall have it back. Also, no more nation breaking tolls for sending the First Fleet to sea.
All other god-things inferior to the glorious Horned Rat, yes-yes!
Hey ratass, i think i saw a lanky blond haired guy And a dwarf behind a nearby corner.
The dwarf was muttering something about boats and elves.
khaine worshiped by humans has scorpion as a symbol not a spider, it is mentioned in archives of the empire volume III
I really hope we get a video featuring the best god of Old Warhammer, Ursun. God of bears whose primary blessing is bear. To be fair, Kislev makes good use of that.
Pancreas, since the new Phoenix Lord of the Warp Spiders were revealed awhile ago, Im sure your preparing the inevitable Video on the Phoenix Lords when the new codex comes out, Right?
thats like asking roanoke to do a vid about a monster based on an angler fish
Oh yea, there's the Ancient Roman Empire in Warhammer. Guess what Pancreas, they even referenced that Celts used to live across Bretonnia, the lands of the Empire and Albion. One can imagine how that went between the Celts and the Remans.
12:40
You forgot my favourite example
"You..." _PUNCH_ "do not..."
*KICK* "steal from..."
*_STOMP_* "...the temples of Shallya..."
-A Talabheim thief, Explaining Professional Ethics to a Colleague
"Justice trumps the law, because it's the spirit rather than the letter that matters", "It's not their duty to judge who isn't and is deserving of Shallya's mercy - only to deliver it", "Do what you must, but when the enemy surrenders, you must treat them well", "No honour amongst thieves, but there is among Ranaldens". I'm genuinely shocked that Warhammer has a pantheon of gods that can be considered morally good (Aside from that last one). Warhammer! Of all things!
Dude exactly! Non-dickhead gods are my jam! This is one of my fav vids of old pancman.
the Warhammer Fantasy fake out immediately followed by an ad read is truly devious, nice work
I am as down bad for Mymida now as Pancreas is for Morathi. Thanks for that dude.
OK fine, I'll take a break from my high elf campaign to watch a yt video. Teclis can take a break from his CBT
Cognitive Behaviour Therapy?!!
I think he meant CQB: Close Quarter Combat but the phone auto corrected to the wrong thing 👍of it ain’t that then idk
Either seems equally likely.
Shallya mentioned! My Scout had her as her primary goddess, serving as the moral compass to the traditional psychopaths you'd find in a Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay party and was such a rare patch of noblebrightness that it helped keep us from getting TOO taken advantage of. Even if she was a bit of a Bretonniaboo, but when you come from the Outla-I mean Border Princes it's difficult to not have AN opinion on them.
A funny bit about how that campaign ended, we had hunted down an exiled dark elf after she was doing some Slaaneshi fleshshaping shit with the local Beastmen. We found out she'd killed and pickled the local count's wife in order to use scraps of her body to magically pose as her, and after some verbal finesse to not get framed for that crime by her, we had the count's entire guard coming down on her as she spammed out spells left and right. As we had her cornered my character gave a short prayer to Shallya that if Morr's death can be merciful than let this mercy be granted so even such a warped soul need not suffer further torment and torture. She missed, the elf got gunned down, and slowly suffocated to death from a collapsed lung and drowning in her own blood. Shallya absolutely has lines of who does and does not deserve mercy.
"Wait, theres more gods than just the chaos ones and the God Emperor? HERESY!"
With how much it felt like they were building up Sienna's reverence for Myrmidia throughout Vermintide 2, I was really hoping we would get a kickass Paladin of Myrmidia Sienna as a dlc career. I'm sure there's an actual unit name that would be used, but I don't play tabletop so I wouldn't know it. Instead, she has half her personality shunted away and replaced with her sisters and she becomes a necromancer. Fat L, Fat Shark.
In the Empire, 'Paladin of Myrmidia' would be a Knight of the Blazing Sun. Which was playable in the Warhammer MMO.
@@Draxynnic Sienna, Knight of the Blazing Sun. Fuckin' perfection. Toss the fuckin' Necromancer and ship the Knight.
Now how many of these could have existed in 40k and got turned into Primarchs by the Emperor.
If GW had worked on more of the early history of humanity on 40k I wouldn’t be surprised to see them add the old and new gods as fellow dieties of humanity that hung out with the Number 1 Mom and Dad duo.
Probably none. If they were around, the Imperium wouldn't be such a shithole.
@ coulda been lost in the warp or hanging around isolated worlds
Nice vid Panc really enjoyed it. Something about the editing is really satisfying I think. Perfect amount of music.
I just spent 30 minutes listening to a man describe in great detail his collection of pre-war Hummel figurines.
That's how it felt.
One whole minute and only 90 views he's been shadow banned
This comment got a heart from pancreas no work/pancreas will never work.
Nooo!! Your edit removed the heart! 😢
This will be amazing to watch as i paint a model
Yo dude you should do a video about wow legion vs chaos!
love it how youre making a nearly sole (cant forget sotek) stand of warhammer fantasy lore against the 40k tide, keep it up :)
I just want to give a shout out to the warhammer fantasy roleplay book. Theyve done more to revive warhammer fantasy than even total warhammer but the books also delve into areas previously left void. In earlier printing of the rpg they barely gave the other gods a page but 4th has gone and made careers (classes for thise who wrent familiar) to most dieties so far.
I'm glad that you continue to make content about Warhammer Fantasy.
Eyyy, another RWBY reference! Also, I would probably worship the first three Goddesses seeing as they're among the nicer ones.
Huh? Which one? Must've missed it...
@@olafgurke4699 IT was the image of Roman Totchwick as a kind of stand in for Ranald. That's all
@@justinisp9361 Ah, yeah, that one. Rip Roman, he was done dirty.
Mr Pancreas, with the announcement of the Gundam Assemble tabletop wargame making Gundam tangentially related to Warhammer, I now demand a series of Gundam lore videos, specifically on Newtypes and those bastards at Anaheim Electronics
so many channels that do gundam are gunna have a field day when that drops
also asmogan i imagine
I’ve been waiting for more of this series
Any chance we get to see a video on the dwarf gods, I kinda wanna know what Grimnir did during the end times after the end of Gotrek and Felix
Finally. I've been waiting for months on end just for this exact video.
I have a Ranald pendant irl, the God of thieves and liars provides.
Settra The God that we are still waiting for.
Me hearing about Renald: is he Cayden Cailean?
Because he kinda sounds like him
No drunken fortitude to godhood (Cayden drunkenly stumbled upon an artifatct in a dungeon that gave him godhood, dodging deathly traps and encounters, no kidding) but still....
Hirez artists are undefeated man. I never get over getting flashbamged by Smite card art in videos like this
HELL YEAH, PANCREAS I CANNOT DESCRIBE HOW MUCH I LOVE HEARING YOU RAMBLE ABOUT SHIT!
"Summoning your lone elector count" lol
I love the idea of the God of Trade being a re4 merchant-type person, someone who you just happen to deal with every once in a while and rewards fair offers with generous offers. The Indian guys who run the newsagents just casually being minor deities
Now im imagining a twin duo in a wh rpg game where one is a healer of shallya and the other is a worrior of myrmidia and they travel around battlefields helping anyone who will take it and they work with the loosing army as commanders as long as their morals are true. And over the years they become a legend that ties the two gods together as a Artemis and apolo type twin saints idea.
1:07 you did better than that. You tricked a 40k fan into thinking this was about Age of Sigmar
Happy first video of the year pancreas.
Man I love it when you talk about elves vids are always better when your passionate about the topic. Go off Elf King
Heck yeah, I was just rewatching the Old Gods video the other day.wondering about the next installment. Super excited to start watching
TIL Warhammer Fantasy RPG is still being published.
Funny, literally yesterday I was wondering why the Skaven Wars books mentioned humans invoking Khaine. This video had fantastic timing
Finally now my whfrpg character can pray to canonical gods at inopportune moments 😈
Erm, what the Sigmar?
GETOUTMYHEADGETOUTOFMYHEADGETOUTOFMYHEAD
Called Khaine - mostly because I have the relevant 2nd edition WFRP sourcebook. Which, incidentally, also strongly implied that the elven and human gods were the same pantheon through different lenses (which becomes interesting when you consider that this includes the deity of wisdom and the deity of death switching genders, but since they BOTH switch genders it can still be presented as a conventional relationship), but GW evidently decided to take a different route with the End Times.
Incidentally, go back far enough and Khaine being Khorne wasn't just implied - around the time the Witch Elves were first released, there was an article about how the Witch Elves were part of a Khorne cult which had been taking over Dark Elf society from the decadent Slaanesh-worshippers among the old Dark Elf nobility, driving the Dark Elves into a new wave of aggression against the Sea Elves (which back then were still semi-distinct from the High Elves). Which is why, if you find Witch Elf models that are old enough, some of them have the symbol of Khaine on them.
Ah, yes, my favorite deity and her followers.
Katya, Rosy Palmer, and The Five Sisters.
JOKE'S ON YOU, I'M A 40K FAN AND FIGURED THIS WAS FANTASY
I'm prepping a campaign for this summer so this series is really awesome. Even if I wasn't it's just interesting.
Will u talk about the Dwarf Gods next?
21:49
Always did like Roman's look! Dude also always reminds me of better times...
I actually dislike the idea that Khaine and Khorne are the same no matter how many letters they share in their name
I'm hardcore into 40k, but I love AoS, old world , fantasy as well . Proceed good sir!
As a fellow History degree owner i love this video a lot xD
Every damn time I see one of Pancreas's WHF videos I remember that I bought the Warhammer Fantasy RPG Humble Bundle and that I should read the books... Now more than ever since he mentioned it like 4 times
Myrmidia had me until Geneva suggestion...
Praise be to the God-Emperor another PancreasNoWork video!
Never would have expected a RWBY reference but I suppose miracles haven't left this world
The top 3 gods are Morr, Gork and Mork, yes?
Awesome, a new one. I just started WHF lore and have been binging. Think you could make a Fantasy specific playlist? I'm kinda burnt out on 40k
I miss Setra.
Settra will not miss you (rolls a six to hit).
So, there's a goddess of... Lovemaking, and her name is just plain old "Katya"? Is that just the name of a gf/crush of one of the lore writers?
Will Collin give an input of Eilistraee and other non-Warhammer Elven gods?
17:10 The Great Horned Rat would like a word
I always liked the idea that Khorne and Khaine share something. Perhaps it was Khorne trying to influence the elves but something got lost in translation. Perhaps they were the same thing once in the primordial long, long ago but split at some point with Khaine being molded by the Elves/Elven gods.
Morr is a lucky god.
If Myrmidia and Sigmar do the thing together, what would the result look like?
Well… you did successfully tricked me into watching a warhammer fantasy video, well done.
Ok fine, I'll watch another vid from this Elgi earlicker...
Happy first video of the new year
This is your friendly reminder that technically you haven’t made a Tyrion video yet
is there a video on halfings? if not there should be they would be a great fit for this channel!
Not gonna lie, 18:16 I got confused at this point and thought I misclicked mid-video onto one about Elder Scrolls lore.
Gods part two let’s go!