I agree with most of these takes. One thing to be careful of is the classification of “anime fighters.” When referring to anime fighters most refer to 2-D fighting games with anime aesthetic (games like Melty Blood, Guilty Gear, and DBFZ), anime games that are played in the 3rd dimension (Naruto Ninja Storm, Dragon Ball Xenoverse, Jump Force) are often called “arena fighters”
I hate alot of the "arena fighters" for how they don't try much in mechanics in the core. And imo make 3d Fighting games further likely never get much aside probably tekken.
Anime Fighters is not even a sub genre. It is just anime looks. Street Fighter IIwas there already and nobody called that anime fighter. It is instead a classic modern fighting game since SFII changed everything forever.
The only anime game you show is an "assist fighter" (what I'd call a hyper fighter). Anime combos are often a bit longer (BBCF) but it varies game by game (MBTL). "Traditional" is a label I'd put on grounded fighters (Street Fighter, MK, KoF), 3D (Tekken), hyper fighters (MvC and DBFZ), and anime games (UNI, Melty Blood). Grounded can also sort of be split into link based fighters (SF, Punch Planet, sort of KoF) and NRS games (MK, Injustice).
I think it would be fair to bring up how some anime fighting games have mechanics like burst that allow you to get out of a combo, like in Guilty Gear, Blazblue or Persona 4 arena and others. I can't deny that combos may be pretty long in these games but at least you do get a chance to get out of them, unlike in Dragonball FighterZ. Also, bursts can be baited and are always punishable on block so you need to be careful when trying to get out of combos.
Interesting video, mostly because of your perspectiver as coming from outside the "core" fgc. There is some factual errors, semantics nitpicks and things that you couldn't know because of experience, but it's worth to listen to. Some minor corrections: -"Assist fighters" are more often called "team fighters" by most of the community. -"Combo menus" would be "command list" if you refer to where you can see your special moves inputs. -There is no fighting game (or any game) without a casual playerbase. Casual only means that they either don't compete, or don't care to do well on tournaments. All of the games you mentioned do have casual communities, it's just harder to appreciate as an outsider. Like I said, mostly just nitpicks, but I would like to talk about some of the other things you mentioned. "Traditional fighters" don't really struggle to get a casual fanbase, "footsies" does more so because it doesn't have characters, and specifically appeals to competitive players from its premise. The thing traditional fighters (all fighting games tbh)really struggle with is mantaining a casual fanbase, and the real reason isn't because they aren't casual friendly, it's because they are lacking in features, that is to say: game modes, costumes, unlockables, extras, good online. While most big fighting games have some, or all of these, they still only offer 5-10 hours of gameplay to casual fans. That said, games like Tekken, Street Fighter, or Dragon Balls FighterZ do have a decently big casual fanbase, it's just really small in comparison to brawlhalla or smash, and this is for other reasons. In the case of Brawlhalla, the game is free, has amazing netcode, and a functional ranked mode (with doubles). Smash has the name, the IPs and the reputation as a "kids game", so it attracts and keeps these players way better. The thing about combos in anime fighters is more nuanced than it may look. With games known for really long combos like skullgirls, blazblue or guilty gear, also having mechanics that either discourage those combo routes or give you a way to escape, scaling and resets for the first and burst or infinite prevention for the latter. Dbfz is a strange case, combos can feel very long mostly because of a lack of burst, or another way to escape them (such as killer instinct's combo breaker). The marvel vs capcom combo you show was done mostly as a show of skill, is not something realistic or useful in a match, to begin with, it isn't guaranteed, and the damage you get is mostly useless as the character would die way earlier. Sorry for the big comment, I still thought the video was good. All the corrections are in good faith, as you couldn't know most of this.
I like that the infinite MvC combo is Dante & Vergil from Devil May Cry, where the entire point is juggling enemies to make the longest god-damn combo you can. I’m almost certain that having them complement each other to be able to keep juggling after the opponent died an hour ago is absolutely intentional lol.
Its mostly because Vergil is literally the best character in the game and Dante is pretty high up there when it comes to tiers. Not really intentional.
@@fiercetatsu6782 Vergil is strong for the same reasons a character like Devil Jin is strong: he can do everything. He works well with every team because he can fill any position from point to anchor, and that mixed with his high damage/mobility makes him god-tier.
I like 3D fighters quite a lot, but I don't get many opportunities to play them. Some of them, especially SoulCalibur, have movesets that take the extra movement into account. Some moves will be vertical to catch things like jumps but also be easy to sidestep, while others will be horizontal to catch sidesteps with some other weakness like jump. It makes for cool movement-based mindgames that 2D fighters miss out on.
iv'e noticed that the Weapon strike mechanisms (Horizontal and Vertical) of SoulCalibur seem to do that better than most other 3-D fighters except possibly Virtua Fighter. :3
I can tell you don’t really play other types of fighting games but even so you’ve done a pretty good job with this video, would say Dragon Ball FighterZ wasn’t a good source to use for anime fighters even tho it’s literally based off a anime the term anime fighter is completely different something like Blazblue, Guilty Gear, Under Night In-Birth, Persona 4 arena and Melty Blood fall into the anime fighter category. FighterZ is a assist/magic series fighter like Marvel vs Capcom and Skull Girls
If you must lump Mahvel in with everything else (a mistake to begin with) at *least* give Mahvel credit for being first as well as the reason we even *have* stuff like EVO. Don't just toss it on the same shelf with Skull Girls or DBZF. Neither of those mediocre games (at *best)* is on Mahvel's level!
@@mikejonesnoreally did I say it was on the same level as those games ? Learn to read jackass I said it’s a magic series game Infact it’s the first of its kind
@@mikejonesnoreally Yikes bro. All the marvel players left marvel for DBFZ on the Beta release anyway. it's pretty clear which is better. DBFZ outsold all of marvel on it's 1st week,generated way more hype and improved every single mechanic it has. it's just a better version in every way
about anime fighter, in old era its mean fighting game with "airdash" or "aerial battle" its popularized by "guilty gear", the combo itself is long, but its not super incredible long compared to versus game (assist fighter) like marvel and skullgirl, in this modern era anime fighter evolve to not just "airdash". Anime game like Granblue play like traditional old street fighter more than SFV itself, the newest guilty gear game evolve from hyper combo game to grounded strike throw game, if you want to try anime fighter I recommend you to try true anime fighting game like BBCF and old guilty gear game, but if you want grounded anime fighter try guilty gear strive/grandblue
@@lisasheehy25 i don't feel *either* of those game are really relevant in the tournament scene and Brawlhalla is certainly not surpassed in terms of *prize pool* soooooo not real sure what yer' sayin'. $mash is what my Grandfather used to play. i don't want play it any more than i want to get my jam on to the Carpenters. :3
Interesting video, I never really thought of breaking down the problems with different genres like this. It's a little generalized, but when you only have like 1 minutes to cover each genre, it kinda has to be haha. Might check the channel to see if there are individual videos with more in depth looks at each. Regarding platform fighters though, I would definitely argue that passive play isn't a problem for the genre as a whole, just Brawhalla. Brawhalla permits every character 3 jumps, a recovery, and almost never puts your character in a position where they cannot act (think the free fall after dodging or recovering in smash). These factors lend to Brawhalla being a really passive game, but attempting to do the same in games like Smash, Rivals of Aether, or Project M, will slowly drain your character of important defensive resources (a double jump, for example) and lead to openings for the aggressor. There are definitely exceptions to this, Puff in Melee comes to mind, but having an occasional character that thrives on passive play certainly isn't a problem for the genre at large. Fun video though, and I hope to see more things in the future
Missed arena fighters. Which are often anime games as well, but with full 3D movement, even less limited than traditional 3D fighters. Stuff like Naruto Storm, MHA One’s Justice, Jump Force, Demon Slayer Hinokami Chronicles, etc.
I need to find a good arena fighter. The ones I've seen/tried are lacking in depth or have terrible netcode or just have a few ways of playing which leads to a mash fest with their 1 button combos, infinite combos, lack of certain defensive options and I'm the case of Storm the dumb substitution button
Don't forget theyre traditional fighters with entries that have either tag team or assist only mechanics. Games like Tekken Tag Tournament 1&2 SFXT KOF 99-2001 KOF 2003&11 and Persona 4 Arena. These games actually experimented with those mechanics before although isn't as chaotic as with MVC and DBFZ they still offered unique takes on extending combos and various different options that u can do. Those games are known for their traditional systems but KOF has always been a teambase fighter with turn-based elimination style rounds. Where u fight each indivual character on an opposing team until all are beaten. Tho with the games I've mentioned they aren't afraid to dip their toes and try something new and innovative some were successful somewhat but others failed that's how it is.
Some anime fighters have rather short combos, they are way more marked by the freedom that gattlings give, the less restricted movement and the amount of bullshit and knowledge checks you have to deal with
Good video but I feel like you should have mentioned how anime fighters tend to have a burst mechanic that lets you break out of combos around once per round. This really helps with those super long combos.
The definition of a combo: Any attack or series of attacks that are *gauranteed* to hit if the first attack connects. If that's true, then that isn't a combo.
Unsure if I agree with the platform fighter take. I feel passivity is more of a brawlhalla issue. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about zoining, I'm talking about when people straight up refuse to fight. Granted there are some cases in PFs where people can be passive (ssbu sonic, melee puff, brawl meta knight maybe) but those are usually a character problem and not usually reflective of the entire game. With more modern games I rarely see this as an issue, some games are so aggressive that I can doubt it to actually be a problem like in RoA. Brawlhalla seems to have really good airdodge, footies, and 3 jumps for it to be an issue. Also yeah make more videos about other games, its cool to have others perspective, especially ones who play PFs like I do.
My favourite subgenre of Fighting game is Joymech Fight. It consists entirely of Joymech Fight, a truly underrated gem on the Famicom with Next Level game design
Your videos are actually great, I can see you’ve been improving and so is your viewer count, can’t wait to see you get big and let everyone know that I was a subscriber since 3k
" 'Anime Fighters' have long combos" I'm not sure 'anime fighters' is a gameplay genre, it certainly isn't named after any gameplay mechanic, just it's visual style. And if we are talking about fighting games with anime branding then there's one that goes across every other subgenre.
No its absolutely named after a gameplay mechanic That mechanic is called the airdash which leads to something only anime and platform fighters have True air neutral
God just imagine if any platform fighter would introduce a stamina bar and bribe the player into being agressive and not passive. I'll make it eventually but god I'd just love it
I think the video is edited very well and you have a great way of explaining stuff. However I have to critique the content of this video because I think that the points you bring up are not well thought out at all (due to inexperience playing fighting game I would presume, but maybe I'm wrong) First, the execution issue you bring up at the start with one frame links is overly exaggerated: most of the links in the games that have them are a lot wider than one frame, and even then, one frame links are not a requirement to be able to play, they add an element of skill to the game that allows for clutch moments to happen and for execution mastery to be shown. For the traditional fgs, I think that footsies is a terrible example: it lacks way too many mechanics that are fundamental to all other 2d fighters, and those are jumping and fireballs; footsies is just a game based on neutral strategy, and lacks many of the elements that constitute staple fighters. And the problem you bring up, about accessibility, is a half truth: all fighting game genres are hard to access, and they all are a very niche genre of games (the reason why is another topic on its own, mainly tho it boils down to how they are sold and built by companies, not how hard or complex they are). For platform fighters, the issue you bring up is entirely subjective: lame playstyles are present in all games, and if they exist in a certain state it means that the developers of the game probably in 90% of cases they are intentional. Is running away boring to watch? Maybe. Is it a viable strategy? Absolutely. For all the other points (sidestepping in 3d games, and long combos) I would just say that those are staples of the genre: complexity has always been present in 3d fighters, and long sequences are directly tied to assist fighters, because that's how the subgenre is. Knowing everything or knowing how to execute infinites is not a requirement to play one or the other, when starting to play all fighting games require very little knowledge of how to play them, because you will build the rest by simply playing, and I feel like this is the main problem with the points you bring up: you seem to miss this fact entirely. Again, good video, simply want to clarify some things that will help you understand the genre better Cheers
Melee has both DI and SDI that lets you be in control as you’re being combo’d, so even when it’s your opponents turn to do his thing, you’re not just putting down the controllee
A lot of this seems to come from lack of information. When someone dies in MvC3, that's the end of the combo. Next will be the incoming where the opponent now has to attempt to mix you up to kill your next character or risk getting the same thing done to them. That MVC3 combo you have shown was for fun. Because people find fun in execution. Imagine combos in like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta. Or in Shooters like Ultrakill or Quake Arena. Go check out Sajam, Core A Gaming, and Leon Massey for some pretty good fighting game vids that can break things down a lot more simpler and doesn't feel like mounting a gigantic wall. In general, these dont seem like problems. They just seem like things you don't like. Which is fine, but you shouldn't confuse "This is something that needs to be fixed," with "I don't like this game, it isn't for me". Just like there's a Melty Blood Type Lumina and Overwatch where it lower execution to be more accessible to the main stream, there's also Street Fighter 4 and Valorant where its absurdly technical and that's the fun of those games, learning the tech and over coming your opponent.
This was pretty good video, and I'd love to see more videos from you regarding the larger FGC space. For me as someone who is an avid fan of anime fighters I would say the biggest critique of the sub-genre would be the prevalence of character specific mechanics within games. Anime games are famous for their over the top spectacle and characters, and to go along with this many characters in the subgenre will have very specific mechanics for their move sets and win conditions that you won't see in any other character in the roster (many characters in Guilty Gear and Blazblue), or any other game (Junpei Iori from Persona 4 Arena). These character specific mechanics make learning a character and executing on their game plan extremely fun and addicting. However, these mechanics can also make it very hard to pick up and learn new characters. Since everyone is so different, there are many characters in anime games that can take weeks if not months of practice before you can start using them with intentionality. Recent games like Guilty Gear Strive, DNF Duel, and Melty Blood: Type Lumina have started top streamline this a bit. The previous Guilty Gear entry Xrd was infamous for the aforementioned weeks/months to learn a character, but with Strive you can reliably play most characters with about a week of practice.
But it’s fun being bad then getting good. I play order sol in gg+R and learning how to manage his charge mechanic and all the shenanigans he gets up to is addictive.
Great video my dude keep it up, but I gotta say, Anime Arena Fighters get like no love in the FGC lol sadly, which sucks because it's my second favorite sub genre after traditional 2D, games like Demon Slayer hemakami Chronicles, My hero one's justice 2, and Storm 4 being my favorite games of this sub genre.
some anime games have long combos on purpose cause it allows you assess the situation and figure out how to respond to the end of the combo since it would be hard to do that when in fast paced neutral.
Team fighters are cool, but tag fighters can be distinct enough to warrant being their own subgenre. To put things into perspective, team fighters are like playing 3 separate characters, so while synergies and whatnot definitely exist, you can usually get away just picking whoever your favorite character is, followed by a good character with a powerful assist, and finally just using a powerful anchor character, and that's why so much of UMvC3 ended up being some variant of (point character)/Dr. Doom/Vergil. Tag fighters, on the other hand, make it feel much less like you're playing 2 characters, and more like you're playing one team. Switching your characters out is not only a generally good idea most of the time, but is actually pretty easy to do. Many basic combo strings give you a simple way to do it without resource expenditure, and generally even give damage bonuses for doing so
Fighting games like Marvel VS Capcom, BlazBlu Cross Tag Battle and also titles like Tekken Tag Tournament are "Tag Team" Fighting games. They exist in terms of Tekken - Virtual Fighter style or in terms of games like Marvel VS Capcom - Street Fighter style.
Gonna be honest DB fighter wasn't the best example for anime fighters since it more MVC than anything else. Which would definitely fall under tag team fighters since all 3 (or 2) characters are completely playable & can assist from time to time. Most anime fighter are hypers fighters in which they take inspiration from Darkstalkers & SF2 turbo. Arc systems is known for make DS like games with Blazblue & Guilty Gear being thier flag ship titles. Sure arcs has a few other which either take to 11 (unist & DnF duel) on the hyper fight & some slow down (GG strive & grandblue versus) But on another spectrum of anime fighters is SNK an the originator of footies being last blade & samurai shodown. Both games take pride in trying to slow the pace down of the fight to stand still since in doing so can help get a clean punish that can instantly win the fight depending the severity of said punish & read. The 3rd and final architype is the assistant(s) fighters in which unlike tag time it's pretty much one main character followed by either one or 2 assistants. Which makes the overall design of the game to be one in which you're making you own ice cream yogurt bowl before getting into a fight. You have your flavors (main fighters of pool size of 12 to 18) & your toppings (assist fighters of pool size of 20 to 30) Games like persona 4 arena, dendeki bunko fighting climax (anime shows cross over), aquapazza, Arcane Hearts & nitroplus blasterz all hv this assistant & main fighters duels.
U one of the few people who dare to say anything remotely negative about Fighting Games. Prolly bcuz Fighting Games fans are as sensitive as One Piece fans - if you don't like what they like, you either "had a bad experience and should try again for the x30 time" or "you are illiterate", there is no in-between and no other reason for them.
Arena Fighters solve the anime fighter problem to a degree, but suffer based on who has the strongest abilities equipped. One person who gets really good with a base character may have to fight an average player that has a super powerful ability. This is an issue with the Xenoverse games and One Punch Man game.
I saw all the comments about your anime and assist fighter sections, and I was initially going to shrug them off as just fanboy bellyaching, but I kinda see what they were talking about. And you did state before you started that this wasn't your area of expertise, so I completely understand. You might have wanted to look into stuff like Guilty Gear and Under-Night as well for anime fighters. They get crazy, but they're not full-on unbreakable combo fests. GG, for instance, shows you via the combo counter where you could have actually teched out of that combo/where the combo stops being natural, and that's on top of having the Burst technique to break out of a combo (which also adds another layer of strategy because you can drop your combo on purpose to bait a Burst attempt from your opponent and make them waste it).
I let my little sister play the Fantasy strike tutorial. She puts one finger up, looks at the keyboard, and holds the right button to go right. She picks the same finger and uses it to attack. She repeats. She refuses to use more than one finger simultaneously. Well, if you want the perfect fighting game for casuals, just make it one big button. That would work for them. However you're gonna have trouble convincing a professional piano player to play with one note for the rest of their life
It's interesting to see the games within the subgenres that have addressed these design challenges: EG Killer Instinct dealing with long combos w/ better interrupts. Rivals of Aether dealing with passive with more zoning & stage control. Even GGS (and Darkstalkers before) were dealing with problems in footsies with action-encouraging meters. So, it's not so much problems, as suggestions of how they can be leaned into for more depth. There's a famous designer (SpryFox guy?) who says "Waiting is not a mechanic"
Fun fact in marvel vs capcom 2 there are quite a few infinites and some of them work on dead characters and because of the nature of the combos they have a special ruling in tournament that they can be used to gain a positional advantage but not stall the game state(aka comboing until time runs out)
Brawlhalla as a platformer is unique as it has little combos, almost all string based, so just throwing out what you think would work could get you a stock before your opponent can fight back, and fighterZ has a problem where everything is a 50/50. My friends literally say "You got hit by a low attack after a 20 second blockstring, now lose 80% of your health, it's ridiculous
1:11 EW you showed Nick All Stars to represent Platform Fighters, you could have showed Smash, or Brawlhalla, or Rivals of Aether or anything else. Oh well at least you didn't show Playstation All Stars Battle Royal.
So quick Information on the anime fighting game sub genre it is divided bit more in the genre being arena fighters(mechanics suck but they offer style and story) and the normal 2d fighter(mostly has the insane mechanics). There is like an exception in the arena fighters being gundam extreme versus a game that is insanely mechanically deep.
Side stepping alone doesn'tmake for a full fledged 3D fighting game. However if you can move free with the analogue stick as you can do in Soul Calibur, that is 3D.
My favorite has always been simulation Boxing like Fight Night and KO Kings. But I did enjoy MK and SF2 turbo back in the day, I wish we had a real boxing 2d game.
Assists Fighters are more like Morph in Brawlhalla beacause there you can take three characters and you can swap between them mid fight and make insane true combos
6:34 is the reason I appreciate Smash's directional influence. I would unplug my controller if I got punished with a 300+ hit combo for a slight mistake.
Yeah but the thing is that MvC3 is a kusoge. This isn't normal for most fighters. Though, Smash still has these problems like Triple-De's chain grab infinite in Brawl, Ice Climbers chain grab in Brawl, Ice Climbers Hobble in Brawl, Marth re-grab chain on Ness and Lucas in brawl, Ice Climbers Wobbling in Melee, Paralysis Falcon Infinite in Smash 4, and I think there is an Ice Climbers infinite in Ultimate. Ice Climbers are very broken.
@@SpeedsonicOddTristan Brawl is a poor example, even though it was still played and supported competitively, it was the closest thing to a party game smash will ever be and 64 exists. Character specific infinites weren't expected of or thought possible by the devs unlike something like MvC or FighterZ. Wobbling was banned, but even so, you still had a fighting chance if you got hit by it, that's just a stock. Despite it being so good and easy to do, no wobbler was frequenting grand finals. Same thing with the Falcon infinite, only unlike wobbling it isn't 100% guaranteed, only occured if you missed a tech. And that was with customs which were the equivalent of those attribute things from SFxT. Outside of Brawl and wobbling the point I was trying to establish is that you can at least fight back in Smash due to directional influence, especially in Melee which is very ironic. Ice Climbers infinite got patched in Ultimate, but they have access to very difficult to perform but very rewarding 0-to-deaths. Luigi's infinite is still in the game but it's punishable and also not guaranteed/easy to miss.
@@GSEleven I guess so. That's why games like Rising Thunder were made. Maybe more people will play traditional fighters since Project L is coming out as a way to introduce newcomers with easy-to-learn inputs while still retaining the main gameplay.
A perfect fighting game for me would be, for example, Tekken, but with a development path to lvl 99. You start playing a character and you're lvl1, you can only use basic moves (no combos), lvl10-20 basic combos, and so on. Then it would be cool and more people would play.
One of the reasons some anime fighters have such long combos is due to the relatively low damage per hit compared to some other fighting games. In Street Fighter I can punish you with 2 hits and get a decent chunk of damage but in DBZ I have to combo then go into an air combo into a knockdown into probably a super. On top of that you have multiple health bars but there are other games with an anime esthetic that aren't like that such as Guilty Gear Strive where you die pretty fast
Tbh, "Anime Fighters" with reeeeally long combos, like you said, are actually meant and balanced around them. Dragon Ball Fighterz has an exaustion mechanic, where the longer a combo is, the less damage it causes. Defensively, you can also interrupt a combo you're receiving for free ONCE in a match, as an action called Spark. You can also push the analog to a direction to influence and offset the knock ack and positioning of your character taking hits, and the direction of recovery, possibly messing the opponents prediction. Offensively, players desire to keep combos as true and strings as long as possible, like any fighter game would, with these requiring far more precise and tight inputs to be kept as close to true as possible, while also predicting the offset of the opponent. It's not frustrating at all, even if it takes in you waiting, and a lot of the craziest things you may see on clips of the game, are way too difficult, risky or unviable to be done in real matches. It's certainly a type of genre that requires a different attention and style of play, and one that flips how much time you spent in a combo and how much in time you spent in pure neutral.
I always find it intresting how people think fighting games are harder than traditional games, as someone who came from shooters(mostly csgo and apex) I actually found them far easier to learn and pick up and get good with than shooters, with the rare exeptions of incredibly low frame combos but in most games unless your aiming to be professional it's often not needed to learn them.
kof has some crazy combos, and TOD. air dashers are a better term than anime fighter. anime just refers to aesthetics, and not all anime fighters are air dashers or combo heavy. combo heavy anime games often have burst mechancis to get out of long combos anyways, and teching, so its not actually put controller down. tag fighter is a better term than assist. Nitroplus Blasterz and MIllion Arthur were assist fighters but not tag fighters. you don't always have separate life bars for each character either.
plattform fighter have abit higher skill floor or an bit deeper learning curve because a little kid can die in seconds because they dont know how to jump properly and because plattform fighters focus on mobility it can be frustrating for newcomers and the combos are harder as well but casual aspect for plattform fighters is what makes it interresting even with the higher skill floor
I know fighterz is the most famous anime fighter or one of, but really it has some of the longest combos out of all fighting games, despite being true that they're bigger generally, I know some anime fighters that have combos long as daigo's guile combos lol
There’s a bit of a problem with putting all 3D fighting games in the same subgenre because all of the big 3D fighting games (and that’s pretty much all 3D fighting games) play completely differently. Each 3D fighting game would probably be worthy of its own subgenre if there were more games that played like it, they’re that different. VF is more of a traditional fighting game with sidestepping and walls/ring outs (ring outs are mainly VF thing though) than a true 3D fighting game, and DOA is a Tomonobu Itagaki game so it plays like what I would imagine snorting cocaine is like. DOA has the triangle system which is what happens when you take the rock, paper, scissors aspect of fighting games and then literally make it rock, paper, scissors and it has the most complicated throw game out of any game I can think (almost every character could be considered a grappler by some games standards). Soulcaliber is weapon based, that’s literally all I have to say. Similar problems with the other subgenres but this one sticks out to me the most.
Soul Calibur is extremely similar to Tekken. It's clearly the same type of game. Bloody Roar and Dead or Alive aren't that far off either. It's not that diverse (for the big names, at least)
@@uandresbrito5685 Soulcalibur and Tekken are very different, 8 way run, ring outs, guard impact, a meter system in some games, guard breaks, and the vastly different combo system are enough to differentiate them but the core gameplay of the two games is just not the same. DOA and Bloody Roar aren’t similar to Tekken either for the same reasons and that’s pretty obvious if you’ve played either game. The stun game, triangle system, and environments make DOA completely different from any fighting game, even Virtua Fighter which is the closest thing to DOA is still vastly different.
@@assassinonprozac Pointing out every little difference doesn't make them less similar. I played a lot of old Tekken and SC and they are drastically similar, at least from the games that were from the same era. Can't say the same for the modern ones. Bloody Roar is slightly different, but not a big deal. Dead or Alive may be a stretch, but I still think it's fundamentally the same. I'm not arguing for Virtua Fighter being similar, but the genre 3D fighter makes sense. It's like arguing SF and KoF as not being the same genre. They vastly different, yet they're... Pretty much the same. The similarities overweight the differences when you think about it and that's why we group them in the first place. You can't possibly argue SC is closer to any other non-labeled-as 3D Fighter game than Tekken, so even if both are Namco games, why wouldn't it make sense?
@@uandresbrito5685 I feel like you’re a bit confused as to what a sub genre is. An air dasher and KOF are very similar but they’re considered different sub genres of 2D fighting games because air dashing and other mechanics in air dashers differentiate them so much. The entire point of sub genres is grouping together things that are very slightly different, (that’s why nobody can every agree as to what counts as being in a sub genre) things don’t have to be completely different to be a different sub genre. I’m not arguing that these games are not similar in any way whatsoever but grouping them all together for a video like this just doesn’t really work, they’re all 3D fighting games but besides being 3D they’re pretty different.
@@assassinonprozac I'm not confused, I'm arguing similarities over differences here. If you really wanna be that picky people can't even agree on what's a fighting game. Does that make fighting games less fighting games? Well, maybe, for some. Not for me. You can't just say "you can't group them together because they are too different" when there are many similarities that are exclusive to their game style. Just saying "Being 3D is the only similarity" is ignoring everything a 3D brings to the table. Furthermore I like the mentality of "3D fighters are different enough that they could get their own subgenres", but there just aren't enough games to be "subgrouped", so that's why they're all one genre. They're more similar to one another than any other non-3D. Even the Budokai games are, as an extreme example.
Anime games have burst mechanics usually to shorten the combo length and provide more depth than just watching the combo. Also, no one takes assist fighters too seriously, contrary to what you were saying they’re considered kusoge ie shit games that people play for fun
I'd wish smash had an option for a 1v1 or 2v2 "Tag team" from 2 characters, up yo 4 characters per team, and the option of playing up to 8 players, at least locally. Like Marvel or Fighterz(with no assists, but assists would be cool too!), but it's smash. I heard that Brawlhalla has a mode like this, i wonder how it works.
definitely hate when a game lets you get stunned for too long or has too many situations where you're not engaging with anything for like 10 seconds funny that a roblox game could avoid issues like this, Critical Strike barely has any classes that stun/combo/push/pull you so you're always able to move and make decisions, rather than messing up one time then watching the infamous "life bar disappearance" cutscene
critical strike also has roblox's advantage of effectively instant and perfect air control, if it was using team fortress 2's jumping system or anything from any other 3d game the game would suck HARD and uhhh...anything slightly more related to fighting games than critical strike seems like it has even LONGER hitstun than other fighting games (gensokyo arena, anime battle arena, soulshatters (ugh this game especially), jojo fighting games)
Not sure if every subgenre was here. Lemmingball Z for example isn't traditional fighter since you can fly around the stage but isn't anime fighter either since there are no huge combos. Platformer fighter is also a stretch since you can destroy the terrain (and flying makes it pretty hard to knock people off stage). It is still a fighting game tho. Just more powering up and projectile based, less about combos. And what was that one fighter where u had to touch a ball to make it more powerful and faster - that game is more about reflexes than combos where you don't hit enemy straight up (Lethal League) - the twist is way too weird to be called traditional. And where are puzzle fighters from the list? Games like "Super Puzzle Fighter 2" or Catherine. Latter i believe still is present on fighting game tournaments so it should be as legit as being called fighting game as tekken or smash bros.
I strongly disagree with your classification of anime fighters, they're not classified by "anime look" and long combos, (look at guilty gear strive) they're classified mostly by having an air dash, and being more aggressive. most of them also have something called "burst" which is a "get out" move that cancel's enemy combo that you get about once a round
Running away for as long as you want? Must be a brawlhalla thing, that's not an issue in smash (unless this 1 stage with greninja/sonic and a slow character) or nasb (unless they didn't nerf April o neil)
I feel like the only traditional fighting game with the combos like “anime fighters” would be jojo heritage to the future and that shit is crazy long and it looks like I would break my keyboard with that amount of inputs
Not an anime fighter by mobility standards, but not traditional either. Jojo is unique because it's pretty much a puppet fighter. As in... It's kind of a traditional fighter, but almost every character is of the puppet archetype
Let me know if I should keep experimenting with different games or stick to Brawlhalla. Comment which games you have in mind!
You should try guilty gear or tekken
I dont mind tbh
Hi typhoon been with you for a long time
Pls do one more Minecraft video pls?
@@Nba2k20ishere whats up
I agree with most of these takes. One thing to be careful of is the classification of “anime fighters.” When referring to anime fighters most refer to 2-D fighting games with anime aesthetic (games like Melty Blood, Guilty Gear, and DBFZ), anime games that are played in the 3rd dimension (Naruto Ninja Storm, Dragon Ball Xenoverse, Jump Force) are often called “arena fighters”
The Naruto ninja storm demo for a new noob is crazy got me fighting fillpping kurma and Madra uchia
Did i miss an episodr or something?
Who tf is fillpping kurma
I hate alot of the "arena fighters" for how they don't try much in mechanics in the core.
And imo make 3d Fighting games further likely never get much aside probably tekken.
better name would be combo fighter
Anime Fighters is not even a sub genre. It is just anime looks. Street Fighter IIwas there already and nobody called that anime fighter. It is instead a classic modern fighting game since SFII changed everything forever.
The only anime game you show is an "assist fighter" (what I'd call a hyper fighter). Anime combos are often a bit longer (BBCF) but it varies game by game (MBTL). "Traditional" is a label I'd put on grounded fighters (Street Fighter, MK, KoF), 3D (Tekken), hyper fighters (MvC and DBFZ), and anime games (UNI, Melty Blood). Grounded can also sort of be split into link based fighters (SF, Punch Planet, sort of KoF) and NRS games (MK, Injustice).
true
@@typhoonbh then correct it! and show some KOF clips that game is sick
@@engliships2126 I would have to delete the vid lol
@@typhoonbh oh ok so you can write something in the description
NRS games aren't fighting games. They are cringe core
I think it would be fair to bring up how some anime fighting games have mechanics like burst that allow you to get out of a combo, like in Guilty Gear, Blazblue or Persona 4 arena and others. I can't deny that combos may be pretty long in these games but at least you do get a chance to get out of them, unlike in Dragonball FighterZ. Also, bursts can be baited and are always punishable on block so you need to be careful when trying to get out of combos.
Guilty gear has small combos and average hits on p4 dont lead to long combos either
@@harryvpn1462 true! I should have mentioned that you get to do long combos when certain conditions are met (corner, meter, etc.)
Burst is in dbfz
Interesting video, mostly because of your perspectiver as coming from outside the "core" fgc. There is some factual errors, semantics nitpicks and things that you couldn't know because of experience, but it's worth to listen to. Some minor corrections:
-"Assist fighters" are more often called "team fighters" by most of the community.
-"Combo menus" would be "command list" if you refer to where you can see your special moves inputs.
-There is no fighting game (or any game) without a casual playerbase. Casual only means that they either don't compete, or don't care to do well on tournaments. All of the games you mentioned do have casual communities, it's just harder to appreciate as an outsider.
Like I said, mostly just nitpicks, but I would like to talk about some of the other things you mentioned.
"Traditional fighters" don't really struggle to get a casual fanbase, "footsies" does more so because it doesn't have characters, and specifically appeals to competitive players from its premise. The thing traditional fighters (all fighting games tbh)really struggle with is mantaining a casual fanbase, and the real reason isn't because they aren't casual friendly, it's because they are lacking in features, that is to say: game modes, costumes, unlockables, extras, good online. While most big fighting games have some, or all of these, they still only offer 5-10 hours of gameplay to casual fans. That said, games like Tekken, Street Fighter, or Dragon Balls FighterZ do have a decently big casual fanbase, it's just really small in comparison to brawlhalla or smash, and this is for other reasons. In the case of Brawlhalla, the game is free, has amazing netcode, and a functional ranked mode (with doubles). Smash has the name, the IPs and the reputation as a "kids game", so it attracts and keeps these players way better.
The thing about combos in anime fighters is more nuanced than it may look. With games known for really long combos like skullgirls, blazblue or guilty gear, also having mechanics that either discourage those combo routes or give you a way to escape, scaling and resets for the first and burst or infinite prevention for the latter. Dbfz is a strange case, combos can feel very long mostly because of a lack of burst, or another way to escape them (such as killer instinct's combo breaker). The marvel vs capcom combo you show was done mostly as a show of skill, is not something realistic or useful in a match, to begin with, it isn't guaranteed, and the damage you get is mostly useless as the character would die way earlier.
Sorry for the big comment, I still thought the video was good. All the corrections are in good faith, as you couldn't know most of this.
I like that the infinite MvC combo is Dante & Vergil from Devil May Cry, where the entire point is juggling enemies to make the longest god-damn combo you can. I’m almost certain that having them complement each other to be able to keep juggling after the opponent died an hour ago is absolutely intentional lol.
Its mostly because Vergil is literally the best character in the game and Dante is pretty high up there when it comes to tiers. Not really intentional.
@@ChizeSOI I’d say Zero is better on point but Vergil requires less work and if you lose him your team isn’t gone to hell with you
@@fiercetatsu6782 Vergil is strong for the same reasons a character like Devil Jin is strong: he can do everything. He works well with every team because he can fill any position from point to anchor, and that mixed with his high damage/mobility makes him god-tier.
@@ChizeSOI and spiral swords can instantly take neutral into his control for only 1 meter
1 bar*
In that Marvel 3 clip, every time it says "team aerial combo", there is a chance for the player getting hit to break it so it isn't a true combo.
I like 3D fighters quite a lot, but I don't get many opportunities to play them. Some of them, especially SoulCalibur, have movesets that take the extra movement into account. Some moves will be vertical to catch things like jumps but also be easy to sidestep, while others will be horizontal to catch sidesteps with some other weakness like jump. It makes for cool movement-based mindgames that 2D fighters miss out on.
iv'e noticed that the Weapon strike mechanisms (Horizontal and Vertical) of SoulCalibur seem to do that better than most other 3-D fighters except possibly Virtua Fighter. :3
I can tell you don’t really play other types of fighting games but even so you’ve done a pretty good job with this video, would say Dragon Ball FighterZ wasn’t a good source to use for anime fighters even tho it’s literally based off a anime the term anime fighter is completely different something like Blazblue, Guilty Gear, Under Night In-Birth, Persona 4 arena and Melty Blood fall into the anime fighter category. FighterZ is a assist/magic series fighter like Marvel vs Capcom and Skull Girls
If you must lump Mahvel in with everything else (a mistake to begin with) at *least* give Mahvel credit for being first as well as the reason we even *have* stuff like EVO. Don't just toss it on the same shelf with Skull Girls or DBZF. Neither of those mediocre games (at *best)* is on Mahvel's level!
@@mikejonesnoreally did I say it was on the same level as those games ? Learn to read jackass I said it’s a magic series game Infact it’s the first of its kind
@@mikejonesnoreally Yikes bro. All the marvel players left marvel for DBFZ on the Beta release anyway. it's pretty clear which is better. DBFZ outsold all of marvel on it's 1st week,generated way more hype and improved every single mechanic it has. it's just a better version in every way
@@shaghilathar3588 Arcsys has literally built their reputation off of fighting games so it makes sense that FighterZ was a smash hit
about anime fighter, in old era its mean fighting game with "airdash" or "aerial battle" its popularized by "guilty gear", the combo itself is long, but its not super incredible long compared to versus game (assist fighter) like marvel and skullgirl, in this modern era anime fighter evolve to not just "airdash". Anime game like Granblue play like traditional old street fighter more than SFV itself, the newest guilty gear game evolve from hyper combo game to grounded strike throw game, if you want to try anime fighter I recommend you to try true anime fighting game like BBCF and old guilty gear game, but if you want grounded anime fighter try guilty gear strive/grandblue
I would love to see more non brawlhalla fighting game videos from u, your content is so well made
he still only focused on brawhalla in platform fighters, a genre that is taken over by smash
@@lisasheehy25 well he is a brawlhalla player so naturally he’d have more knowledge of it
@@lisasheehy25 i don't feel *either* of those game are really relevant in the tournament scene and Brawlhalla is certainly not surpassed in terms of *prize pool* soooooo not real sure what yer' sayin'. $mash is what my Grandfather used to play. i don't want play it any more than i want to get my jam on to the Carpenters. :3
Interesting video, I never really thought of breaking down the problems with different genres like this. It's a little generalized, but when you only have like 1 minutes to cover each genre, it kinda has to be haha. Might check the channel to see if there are individual videos with more in depth looks at each.
Regarding platform fighters though, I would definitely argue that passive play isn't a problem for the genre as a whole, just Brawhalla.
Brawhalla permits every character 3 jumps, a recovery, and almost never puts your character in a position where they cannot act (think the free fall after dodging or recovering in smash). These factors lend to Brawhalla being a really passive game, but attempting to do the same in games like Smash, Rivals of Aether, or Project M, will slowly drain your character of important defensive resources (a double jump, for example) and lead to openings for the aggressor.
There are definitely exceptions to this, Puff in Melee comes to mind, but having an occasional character that thrives on passive play certainly isn't a problem for the genre at large.
Fun video though, and I hope to see more things in the future
I like the dive into different content keep it up
Missed arena fighters. Which are often anime games as well, but with full 3D movement, even less limited than traditional 3D fighters. Stuff like Naruto Storm, MHA One’s Justice, Jump Force, Demon Slayer Hinokami Chronicles, etc.
I need to find a good arena fighter. The ones I've seen/tried are lacking in depth or have terrible netcode or just have a few ways of playing which leads to a mash fest with their 1 button combos, infinite combos, lack of certain defensive options and I'm the case of Storm the dumb substitution button
I really enjoy your videos! Just keep pushing the content out and trying new, exciting stuff like this!
Thanks! Will do!
@@typhoonbh yay!
Don't forget theyre traditional fighters with entries that have either tag team or assist only mechanics. Games like Tekken Tag Tournament 1&2 SFXT KOF 99-2001 KOF 2003&11 and Persona 4 Arena. These games actually experimented with those mechanics before although isn't as chaotic as with MVC and DBFZ they still offered unique takes on extending combos and various different options that u can do. Those games are known for their traditional systems but KOF has always been a teambase fighter with turn-based elimination style rounds. Where u fight each indivual character on an opposing team until all are beaten.
Tho with the games I've mentioned they aren't afraid to dip their toes and try something new and innovative some were successful somewhat but others failed that's how it is.
Some anime fighters have rather short combos, they are way more marked by the freedom that gattlings give, the less restricted movement and the amount of bullshit and knowledge checks you have to deal with
Good video but I feel like you should have mentioned how anime fighters tend to have a burst mechanic that lets you break out of combos around once per round. This really helps with those super long combos.
The definition of a combo: Any attack or series of attacks that are *gauranteed* to hit if the first attack connects. If that's true, then that isn't a combo.
@@mikejonesnoreally he said burst. Not tech.
Unsure if I agree with the platform fighter take. I feel passivity is more of a brawlhalla issue. Keep in mind, I'm not talking about zoining, I'm talking about when people straight up refuse to fight.
Granted there are some cases in PFs where people can be passive (ssbu sonic, melee puff, brawl meta knight maybe) but those are usually a character problem and not usually reflective of the entire game.
With more modern games I rarely see this as an issue, some games are so aggressive that I can doubt it to actually be a problem like in RoA.
Brawlhalla seems to have really good airdodge, footies, and 3 jumps for it to be an issue.
Also yeah make more videos about other games, its cool to have others perspective, especially ones who play PFs like I do.
Flashback to that one sm4sh match that two bayonettas just stared at eachother
literally every platform fighter has a passivity issue lmfao name one that doesn't
@@penzfgc8009 "I can doubt it to actually be a problem like in RoA"
Banger vid. As someone who played a shitton of brawlhalla while also playing now street fighter games this was an awesome vid
My favourite subgenre of Fighting game is Joymech Fight. It consists entirely of Joymech Fight, a truly underrated gem on the Famicom with Next Level game design
Your videos are actually great, I can see you’ve been improving and so is your viewer count, can’t wait to see you get big and let everyone know that I was a subscriber since 3k
" 'Anime Fighters' have long combos"
I'm not sure 'anime fighters' is a gameplay genre, it certainly isn't named after any gameplay mechanic, just it's visual style. And if we are talking about fighting games with anime branding then there's one that goes across every other subgenre.
No its absolutely named after a gameplay mechanic
That mechanic is called the airdash which leads to something only anime and platform fighters have
True air neutral
God just imagine if any platform fighter would introduce a stamina bar and bribe the player into being agressive and not passive. I'll make it eventually but god I'd just love it
I think the video is edited very well and you have a great way of explaining stuff.
However I have to critique the content of this video because I think that the points you bring up are not well thought out at all (due to inexperience playing fighting game I would presume, but maybe I'm wrong)
First, the execution issue you bring up at the start with one frame links is overly exaggerated: most of the links in the games that have them are a lot wider than one frame, and even then, one frame links are not a requirement to be able to play, they add an element of skill to the game that allows for clutch moments to happen and for execution mastery to be shown.
For the traditional fgs, I think that footsies is a terrible example: it lacks way too many mechanics that are fundamental to all other 2d fighters, and those are jumping and fireballs; footsies is just a game based on neutral strategy, and lacks many of the elements that constitute staple fighters. And the problem you bring up, about accessibility, is a half truth: all fighting game genres are hard to access, and they all are a very niche genre of games (the reason why is another topic on its own, mainly tho it boils down to how they are sold and built by companies, not how hard or complex they are).
For platform fighters, the issue you bring up is entirely subjective: lame playstyles are present in all games, and if they exist in a certain state it means that the developers of the game probably in 90% of cases they are intentional. Is running away boring to watch? Maybe. Is it a viable strategy? Absolutely.
For all the other points (sidestepping in 3d games, and long combos) I would just say that those are staples of the genre: complexity has always been present in 3d fighters, and long sequences are directly tied to assist fighters, because that's how the subgenre is. Knowing everything or knowing how to execute infinites is not a requirement to play one or the other, when starting to play all fighting games require very little knowledge of how to play them, because you will build the rest by simply playing, and I feel like this is the main problem with the points you bring up: you seem to miss this fact entirely.
Again, good video, simply want to clarify some things that will help you understand the genre better
Cheers
Melee has both DI and SDI that lets you be in control as you’re being combo’d, so even when it’s your opponents turn to do his thing, you’re not just putting down the controllee
A lot of this seems to come from lack of information. When someone dies in MvC3, that's the end of the combo. Next will be the incoming where the opponent now has to attempt to mix you up to kill your next character or risk getting the same thing done to them. That MVC3 combo you have shown was for fun. Because people find fun in execution. Imagine combos in like Devil May Cry or Bayonetta. Or in Shooters like Ultrakill or Quake Arena. Go check out Sajam, Core A Gaming, and Leon Massey for some pretty good fighting game vids that can break things down a lot more simpler and doesn't feel like mounting a gigantic wall.
In general, these dont seem like problems. They just seem like things you don't like. Which is fine, but you shouldn't confuse "This is something that needs to be fixed," with "I don't like this game, it isn't for me". Just like there's a Melty Blood Type Lumina and Overwatch where it lower execution to be more accessible to the main stream, there's also Street Fighter 4 and Valorant where its absurdly technical and that's the fun of those games, learning the tech and over coming your opponent.
Glad you specified MVC3 because MVC2 had dead body infinites (and they’re technically tournament legal).
Cringe take
Sf4 minus 1 frame links is infinitely more accessible than mbtl even with rapid beat and dash macro
This was pretty good video, and I'd love to see more videos from you regarding the larger FGC space.
For me as someone who is an avid fan of anime fighters I would say the biggest critique of the sub-genre would be the prevalence of character specific mechanics within games.
Anime games are famous for their over the top spectacle and characters, and to go along with this many characters in the subgenre will have very specific mechanics for their move sets and win conditions that you won't see in any other character in the roster (many characters in Guilty Gear and Blazblue), or any other game (Junpei Iori from Persona 4 Arena). These character specific mechanics make learning a character and executing on their game plan extremely fun and addicting. However, these mechanics can also make it very hard to pick up and learn new characters. Since everyone is so different, there are many characters in anime games that can take weeks if not months of practice before you can start using them with intentionality.
Recent games like Guilty Gear Strive, DNF Duel, and Melty Blood: Type Lumina have started top streamline this a bit. The previous Guilty Gear entry Xrd was infamous for the aforementioned weeks/months to learn a character, but with Strive you can reliably play most characters with about a week of practice.
Ah I see, I appreciate the in-depth clarification. I actually made a recent video on a larger FGC topic if you wanna check it out, thanks!
@@typhoonbh That video's actually how I got to your channel! It was also very good!
But it’s fun being bad then getting good. I play order sol in gg+R and learning how to manage his charge mechanic and all the shenanigans he gets up to is addictive.
Great video my dude keep it up, but I gotta say, Anime Arena Fighters get like no love in the FGC lol sadly, which sucks because it's my second favorite sub genre after traditional 2D, games like Demon Slayer hemakami Chronicles, My hero one's justice 2, and Storm 4 being my favorite games of this sub genre.
Yo that Tekken angle to show sidesteps is kinda sick
some anime games have long combos on purpose cause it allows you assess the situation and figure out how to respond to the end of the combo since it would be hard to do that when in fast paced neutral.
Team fighters are cool, but tag fighters can be distinct enough to warrant being their own subgenre. To put things into perspective, team fighters are like playing 3 separate characters, so while synergies and whatnot definitely exist, you can usually get away just picking whoever your favorite character is, followed by a good character with a powerful assist, and finally just using a powerful anchor character, and that's why so much of UMvC3 ended up being some variant of (point character)/Dr. Doom/Vergil.
Tag fighters, on the other hand, make it feel much less like you're playing 2 characters, and more like you're playing one team. Switching your characters out is not only a generally good idea most of the time, but is actually pretty easy to do. Many basic combo strings give you a simple way to do it without resource expenditure, and generally even give damage bonuses for doing so
Fighting games like Marvel VS Capcom, BlazBlu Cross Tag Battle and also titles like Tekken Tag Tournament are "Tag Team" Fighting games. They exist in terms of Tekken - Virtual Fighter style or in terms of games like Marvel VS Capcom - Street Fighter style.
Gonna be honest DB fighter wasn't the best example for anime fighters since it more MVC than anything else. Which would definitely fall under tag team fighters since all 3 (or 2) characters are completely playable & can assist from time to time.
Most anime fighter are hypers fighters in which they take inspiration from Darkstalkers & SF2 turbo. Arc systems is known for make DS like games with Blazblue & Guilty Gear being thier flag ship titles.
Sure arcs has a few other which either take to 11 (unist & DnF duel) on the hyper fight & some slow down (GG strive & grandblue versus)
But on another spectrum of anime fighters is SNK an the originator of footies being last blade & samurai shodown. Both games take pride in trying to slow the pace down of the fight to stand still since in doing so can help get a clean punish that can instantly win the fight depending the severity of said punish & read.
The 3rd and final architype is the assistant(s) fighters in which unlike tag time it's pretty much one main character followed by either one or 2 assistants. Which makes the overall design of the game to be one in which you're making you own ice cream yogurt bowl before getting into a fight. You have your flavors (main fighters of pool size of 12 to 18) & your toppings (assist fighters of pool size of 20 to 30)
Games like persona 4 arena, dendeki bunko fighting climax (anime shows cross over), aquapazza, Arcane Hearts & nitroplus blasterz all hv this assistant & main fighters duels.
U one of the few people who dare to say anything remotely negative about Fighting Games. Prolly bcuz Fighting Games fans are as sensitive as One Piece fans - if you don't like what they like, you either "had a bad experience and should try again for the x30 time" or "you are illiterate", there is no in-between and no other reason for them.
Arena Fighters solve the anime fighter problem to a degree, but suffer based on who has the strongest abilities equipped. One person who gets really good with a base character may have to fight an average player that has a super powerful ability. This is an issue with the Xenoverse games and One Punch Man game.
I saw all the comments about your anime and assist fighter sections, and I was initially going to shrug them off as just fanboy bellyaching, but I kinda see what they were talking about. And you did state before you started that this wasn't your area of expertise, so I completely understand.
You might have wanted to look into stuff like Guilty Gear and Under-Night as well for anime fighters. They get crazy, but they're not full-on unbreakable combo fests. GG, for instance, shows you via the combo counter where you could have actually teched out of that combo/where the combo stops being natural, and that's on top of having the Burst technique to break out of a combo (which also adds another layer of strategy because you can drop your combo on purpose to bait a Burst attempt from your opponent and make them waste it).
I let my little sister play the Fantasy strike tutorial.
She puts one finger up, looks at the keyboard, and holds the right button to go right.
She picks the same finger and uses it to attack.
She repeats.
She refuses to use more than one finger simultaneously.
Well, if you want the perfect fighting game for casuals, just make it one big button.
That would work for them.
However you're gonna have trouble convincing a professional piano player to play with one note for the rest of their life
I love how you talked about running away gameplay and show experience in winters 💀
It's interesting to see the games within the subgenres that have addressed these design challenges: EG Killer Instinct dealing with long combos w/ better interrupts. Rivals of Aether dealing with passive with more zoning & stage control. Even GGS (and Darkstalkers before) were dealing with problems in footsies with action-encouraging meters. So, it's not so much problems, as suggestions of how they can be leaned into for more depth. There's a famous designer (SpryFox guy?) who says "Waiting is not a mechanic"
Fun fact in marvel vs capcom 2 there are quite a few infinites and some of them work on dead characters and because of the nature of the combos they have a special ruling in tournament that they can be used to gain a positional advantage but not stall the game state(aka comboing until time runs out)
That box game play was despicable
Brawlhalla as a platformer is unique as it has little combos, almost all string based, so just throwing out what you think would work could get you a stock before your opponent can fight back, and fighterZ has a problem where everything is a 50/50. My friends literally say "You got hit by a low attack after a 20 second blockstring, now lose 80% of your health, it's ridiculous
but everyone can do that so balanced lol
5.20 mins you have the perfect explanation 👌 👏 👍
1:11 EW you showed Nick All Stars to represent Platform Fighters, you could have showed Smash, or Brawlhalla, or Rivals of Aether or anything else. Oh well at least you didn't show Playstation All Stars Battle Royal.
So quick Information on the anime fighting game sub genre it is divided bit more in the genre being arena fighters(mechanics suck but they offer style and story) and the normal 2d fighter(mostly has the insane mechanics). There is like an exception in the arena fighters being gundam extreme versus a game that is insanely mechanically deep.
5:28 The experience of most new players in traditional fighters
Bruh I can not play a game where I get hit once and an entire cutscene plays, and I'm by the time the combo ends humans have are living on Mars.
Side stepping alone doesn'tmake for a full fledged 3D fighting game. However if you can move free with the analogue stick as you can do in Soul Calibur, that is 3D.
“This clip from Marvel vs Capcom 3 is truly ridiculous.” It’s funny, because it is true.
My favorite has always been simulation Boxing like Fight Night and KO Kings. But I did enjoy MK and SF2 turbo back in the day, I wish we had a real boxing 2d game.
The choice for "Assist Fighters" is way better than calling "Versus". Assist is a simple and yet informative nomenclature.
Assists Fighters are more like Morph in Brawlhalla beacause there you can take three characters and you can swap between them mid fight and make insane true combos
The thing is . Brawlhalla's difficult combos aren't even that long
they aren't
it depends on the combo bro
to be fair, that marvel 3 combo would've ended at much earlier when thor got killed by it, and he had a chance to break the TAC (team air combo)
6:34 is the reason I appreciate Smash's directional influence. I would unplug my controller if I got punished with a 300+ hit combo for a slight mistake.
Yeah but the thing is that MvC3 is a kusoge. This isn't normal for most fighters. Though, Smash still has these problems like Triple-De's chain grab infinite in Brawl, Ice Climbers chain grab in Brawl, Ice Climbers Hobble in Brawl, Marth re-grab chain on Ness and Lucas in brawl, Ice Climbers Wobbling in Melee, Paralysis Falcon Infinite in Smash 4, and I think there is an Ice Climbers infinite in Ultimate. Ice Climbers are very broken.
@@SpeedsonicOddTristan Brawl is a poor example, even though it was still played and supported competitively, it was the closest thing to a party game smash will ever be and 64 exists. Character specific infinites weren't expected of or thought possible by the devs unlike something like MvC or FighterZ. Wobbling was banned, but even so, you still had a fighting chance if you got hit by it, that's just a stock. Despite it being so good and easy to do, no wobbler was frequenting grand finals. Same thing with the Falcon infinite, only unlike wobbling it isn't 100% guaranteed, only occured if you missed a tech. And that was with customs which were the equivalent of those attribute things from SFxT.
Outside of Brawl and wobbling the point I was trying to establish is that you can at least fight back in Smash due to directional influence, especially in Melee which is very ironic.
Ice Climbers infinite got patched in Ultimate, but they have access to very difficult to perform but very rewarding 0-to-deaths. Luigi's infinite is still in the game but it's punishable and also not guaranteed/easy to miss.
@@GSEleven I guess so. That's why games like Rising Thunder were made. Maybe more people will play traditional fighters since Project L is coming out as a way to introduce newcomers with easy-to-learn inputs while still retaining the main gameplay.
I mean you can just avoid skullgirls/dbfz/mvc3/maybe bbcf then, those are ones that stand out as having really long combos
@@harryvpn1462 The game having combos I wouldn't enjoy doesn't mean the whole game is undesirable for me. What is that?
I feel anime fighters and assist fighters show exactly why combo breaker moves should be standard practice for fighting game designers.
A perfect fighting game for me would be, for example, Tekken, but with a development path to lvl 99.
You start playing a character and you're lvl1, you can only use basic moves (no combos),
lvl10-20 basic combos, and so on. Then it would be cool and more people would play.
...now, could you talk about Beat-Em-Up Fighters and Arena Fighters?
One of the reasons some anime fighters have such long combos is due to the relatively low damage per hit compared to some other fighting games. In Street Fighter I can punish you with 2 hits and get a decent chunk of damage but in DBZ I have to combo then go into an air combo into a knockdown into probably a super. On top of that you have multiple health bars but there are other games with an anime esthetic that aren't like that such as Guilty Gear Strive where you die pretty fast
You were right when you said you get stressed while plying I experience this too much
Tbh, "Anime Fighters" with reeeeally long combos, like you said, are actually meant and balanced around them. Dragon Ball Fighterz has an exaustion mechanic, where the longer a combo is, the less damage it causes. Defensively, you can also interrupt a combo you're receiving for free ONCE in a match, as an action called Spark. You can also push the analog to a direction to influence and offset the knock ack and positioning of your character taking hits, and the direction of recovery, possibly messing the opponents prediction. Offensively, players desire to keep combos as true and strings as long as possible, like any fighter game would, with these requiring far more precise and tight inputs to be kept as close to true as possible, while also predicting the offset of the opponent. It's not frustrating at all, even if it takes in you waiting, and a lot of the craziest things you may see on clips of the game, are way too difficult, risky or unviable to be done in real matches. It's certainly a type of genre that requires a different attention and style of play, and one that flips how much time you spent in a combo and how much in time you spent in pure neutral.
0:11 that chun lee👀👀👀👀👀
"This clip from MvC3 is ridiculous."
*Team has Dante and Vergil*
Well there's the reason.
Wow that's very interesting that's something I don't hear everyday hope there is more videos like this
I always find it intresting how people think fighting games are harder than traditional games, as someone who came from shooters(mostly csgo and apex) I actually found them far easier to learn and pick up and get good with than shooters, with the rare exeptions of incredibly low frame combos but in most games unless your aiming to be professional it's often not needed to learn them.
kof has some crazy combos, and TOD. air dashers are a better term than anime fighter. anime just refers to aesthetics, and not all anime fighters are air dashers or combo heavy. combo heavy anime games often have burst mechancis to get out of long combos anyways, and teching, so its not actually put controller down. tag fighter is a better term than assist. Nitroplus Blasterz and MIllion Arthur were assist fighters but not tag fighters. you don't always have separate life bars for each character either.
I love how you're pick on Anime Fighter is being frustrated about a Touch of Death combo.
Fighting games I've ever played seriously are SF, MK, KI, Tekken and KoF series, so I guess I don't have any.
plattform fighter have abit higher skill floor or an bit deeper learning curve because a little kid can die in seconds because they dont know how to jump properly and because plattform fighters focus on mobility it can be frustrating for newcomers and the combos are harder as well but casual aspect for plattform fighters is what makes it interresting even with the higher skill floor
I know fighterz is the most famous anime fighter or one of, but really it has some of the longest combos out of all fighting games, despite being true that they're bigger generally, I know some anime fighters that have combos long as daigo's guile combos lol
Got damn typhoon back at it again with the grade A content. Love to see it!
There’s a bit of a problem with putting all 3D fighting games in the same subgenre because all of the big 3D fighting games (and that’s pretty much all 3D fighting games) play completely differently. Each 3D fighting game would probably be worthy of its own subgenre if there were more games that played like it, they’re that different. VF is more of a traditional fighting game with sidestepping and walls/ring outs (ring outs are mainly VF thing though) than a true 3D fighting game, and DOA is a Tomonobu Itagaki game so it plays like what I would imagine snorting cocaine is like. DOA has the triangle system which is what happens when you take the rock, paper, scissors aspect of fighting games and then literally make it rock, paper, scissors and it has the most complicated throw game out of any game I can think (almost every character could be considered a grappler by some games standards). Soulcaliber is weapon based, that’s literally all I have to say. Similar problems with the other subgenres but this one sticks out to me the most.
Soul Calibur is extremely similar to Tekken. It's clearly the same type of game. Bloody Roar and Dead or Alive aren't that far off either. It's not that diverse (for the big names, at least)
@@uandresbrito5685 Soulcalibur and Tekken are very different, 8 way run, ring outs, guard impact, a meter system in some games, guard breaks, and the vastly different combo system are enough to differentiate them but the core gameplay of the two games is just not the same. DOA and Bloody Roar aren’t similar to Tekken either for the same reasons and that’s pretty obvious if you’ve played either game. The stun game, triangle system, and environments make DOA completely different from any fighting game, even Virtua Fighter which is the closest thing to DOA is still vastly different.
@@assassinonprozac Pointing out every little difference doesn't make them less similar. I played a lot of old Tekken and SC and they are drastically similar, at least from the games that were from the same era. Can't say the same for the modern ones. Bloody Roar is slightly different, but not a big deal. Dead or Alive may be a stretch, but I still think it's fundamentally the same. I'm not arguing for Virtua Fighter being similar, but the genre 3D fighter makes sense. It's like arguing SF and KoF as not being the same genre. They vastly different, yet they're... Pretty much the same. The similarities overweight the differences when you think about it and that's why we group them in the first place. You can't possibly argue SC is closer to any other non-labeled-as 3D Fighter game than Tekken, so even if both are Namco games, why wouldn't it make sense?
@@uandresbrito5685 I feel like you’re a bit confused as to what a sub genre is. An air dasher and KOF are very similar but they’re considered different sub genres of 2D fighting games because air dashing and other mechanics in air dashers differentiate them so much. The entire point of sub genres is grouping together things that are very slightly different, (that’s why nobody can every agree as to what counts as being in a sub genre) things don’t have to be completely different to be a different sub genre. I’m not arguing that these games are not similar in any way whatsoever but grouping them all together for a video like this just doesn’t really work, they’re all 3D fighting games but besides being 3D they’re pretty different.
@@assassinonprozac I'm not confused, I'm arguing similarities over differences here. If you really wanna be that picky people can't even agree on what's a fighting game. Does that make fighting games less fighting games? Well, maybe, for some. Not for me. You can't just say "you can't group them together because they are too different" when there are many similarities that are exclusive to their game style. Just saying "Being 3D is the only similarity" is ignoring everything a 3D brings to the table. Furthermore I like the mentality of "3D fighters are different enough that they could get their own subgenres", but there just aren't enough games to be "subgrouped", so that's why they're all one genre. They're more similar to one another than any other non-3D. Even the Budokai games are, as an extreme example.
Anime games have burst mechanics usually to shorten the combo length and provide more depth than just watching the combo. Also, no one takes assist fighters too seriously, contrary to what you were saying they’re considered kusoge ie shit games that people play for fun
wow thanks for putting brawlhalla on the thumbnail rather than ssbu
Rushdown Revolts amazing it’s a hyper cross between platform fighter an Guilty Gear type games fully free fully made by gamers
I just wish it was on console, I swear you CAN play with a controller on PC? But alas, one can only dream.
I'd wish smash had an option for a 1v1 or 2v2 "Tag team" from 2 characters, up yo 4 characters per team, and the option of playing up to 8 players, at least locally. Like Marvel or Fighterz(with no assists, but assists would be cool too!), but it's smash. I heard that Brawlhalla has a mode like this, i wonder how it works.
Should have covered arena fighters like the naruto storm games too
definitely hate when a game lets you get stunned for too long or has too many situations where you're not engaging with anything for like 10 seconds
funny that a roblox game could avoid issues like this, Critical Strike barely has any classes that stun/combo/push/pull you so you're always able to move and make decisions, rather than messing up one time then watching the infamous "life bar disappearance" cutscene
Whya re u banned
Critical strike is very very different than any game mentioned here though? Hard to even call it a fighting game (also chronos exists)
critical strike also has roblox's advantage of effectively instant and perfect air control, if it was using team fortress 2's jumping system or anything from any other 3d game the game would suck HARD
and uhhh...anything slightly more related to fighting games than critical strike seems like it has even LONGER hitstun than other fighting games (gensokyo arena, anime battle arena, soulshatters (ugh this game especially), jojo fighting games)
Anyone has a link to that comically long Marvel vs Capcom combo? There's some memeing to be done...
ua-cam.com/video/vumCJiboHLY/v-deo.html
6:47 i wanna learn that
1:37 How in the world do you go up or down in Footsies??
you're able to preform a DP which makes you jump vertically, albeit not by very much
@@typhoonbh That's fair, and I guess down would be the low forward kick haha?
@@SicklyNickable Yeah lol
My favorite sub genre is definitely anime, I love playing Melty, even if I grew up playing Melee and Brawl, Melty is just so fun for me 😁
In fairness you can't show a double TAC in marvel to say the combos are long that's basically as long as combos can be in a modern game
Could you make a video on 2.5D fighting games?
Not sure if every subgenre was here. Lemmingball Z for example isn't traditional fighter since you can fly around the stage but isn't anime fighter either since there are no huge combos. Platformer fighter is also a stretch since you can destroy the terrain (and flying makes it pretty hard to knock people off stage). It is still a fighting game tho. Just more powering up and projectile based, less about combos. And what was that one fighter where u had to touch a ball to make it more powerful and faster - that game is more about reflexes than combos where you don't hit enemy straight up (Lethal League) - the twist is way too weird to be called traditional. And where are puzzle fighters from the list? Games like "Super Puzzle Fighter 2" or Catherine. Latter i believe still is present on fighting game tournaments so it should be as legit as being called fighting game as tekken or smash bros.
loving the vids
thank you!
I strongly disagree with your classification of anime fighters, they're not classified by "anime look" and long combos, (look at guilty gear strive) they're classified mostly by having an air dash, and being more aggressive. most of them also have something called "burst" which is a "get out" move that cancel's enemy combo that you get about once a round
Thiat last clip reminds me of gen endless backstab combo from ss3
Anime game combos allow me to sleep wake up eat cereal and my game is still goin
Brawlhalla morph players having both problems:
What about Arena Fighters like DBZ Budokai Tenkaichi 3, Naruto Storm 4 and Demon Slayer: Hinokami Chronicles? isn't it a subgenre of Fighting games?
I really thought for MVC3 he was going to show the storm phoenix morrigan team
Mans talking bout real fighting games and left me out🤧
sorry bro I lowkey forgot
@@typhoonbh understandable have a great day😂
💀 condolences to the person who got messed with a 500+ hit combo
I like the 3d fighters personally
Running away for as long as you want? Must be a brawlhalla thing, that's not an issue in smash (unless this 1 stage with greninja/sonic and a slow character) or nasb (unless they didn't nerf April o neil)
I feel like the only traditional fighting game with the combos like “anime fighters” would be jojo heritage to the future and that shit is crazy long and it looks like I would break my keyboard with that amount of inputs
That really isnt a traditional fighter either
Not an anime fighter by mobility standards, but not traditional either. Jojo is unique because it's pretty much a puppet fighter. As in... It's kind of a traditional fighter, but almost every character is of the puppet archetype
Btw Tekken tag is a hybrid of 3d/assist
The combo thing....
Exactly why Killer Instinct is the best fighter ever made