Should not be an issue. The controller used your N-number and gave you a squawk code. That is two-way communication per the regs to enter Class C airspace.
What a situation. Handled it well. This is something I'll definitely keep in mind flying from Tune as well! I had to rewind the video because I was also confused, but heard the "stay clear of the class charlie, say request" the 2nd time I listened to it.
Don't let it discourage you from flying around here - BNA/JWN controllers are great and while it can be very busy and there have been a lot of recent changes, everyone is rolling with it and finding new best practices. This was kind of an anomalous comms situation and 99% of the time all this goes smoothly.
I think you handled it perfectly. Offer a quick (and truthful) explanation, take responsibility, and apologize. I'm sure had you have said, "You never told me to stay clear! You said my tail number, I go where I want!" it would have been a different story.
I think you were legal to enter the Charlie as soon as he said your call sign … 91.130 (c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements: (1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.
I did not hear the initial "remain clear" - but thankfully did not enter the Class C until receiving a squawk code and establishing 2 way comms nonetheless.
@@BrianSiskind Did he say remain clear? If not then you are cleared in for sure regardless of the transponder. The second he said your call sign I think that you are clear. I am not 100% sure that he can say N123KL stay clear... All that being said regardless of him saying your call sign or not... if he said to stay clear I would have... that being said I listened to your video a few times and I never heard him say that.
Ooops is right, glad the controller was pretty chill about it overall. Betting they've had to deal with a bunch of those since the introduction of the "super charlie". Happy it worked out ok and thanks for having the guts to share it :) Happy Holidays Brian!!
Retired controller here and the controller was in the wrong , if he didnt want you in the class C before you were radar id he should have told you to remain clear of the C , if they use your N number that established communication and is what is needed to enter the C, radar contact is not require to enter .
My question is, if the pilot didn’t acknowledge departure control’s transmission then why didn’t departure control make a second attempt to advise the pilot? Especially as the aircraft was getting closer and closer to the class C airspace.
I don’t think you did anything wrong here. The controller should have told you to remain clear of his airspace when he gave the the squawk code. Once he says your call sigh in a transmission without also telling you to remain clear, you technically have what you need to enter the Charlie airspace.
@@v1rotationit’s just unclear from the video when exactly he entered the Charlie airspace. The controller is incorrect in saying that radar ID and a turn on course is required before entering. As soon as he got that squawk code, he was cleared into Class C. Two way communication was established in that single transmission without further instruction to remain clear.
BNA app probably did use my callsign, but it came in under my squelch unfortunately just before I opened it as I realized reception was poor. That said, I did not climb into Class C until receiving the squawk which was after 2 way comms established. Flying runway heading from JWN the only shelf to contend with is only 2400, not the 1800 app/dep corridor shelf.
Even after listening a few times, all I hear is static. Was this how you heard it i the cockpit? If so, are there any ways to fix/improve this? My thoughts are 1) If I knew I heard something but couldn't make out what it was, I'd ask "Say again" but if I didn't know that I missed something, I'd be relying on ATC to try again until I acknowledged it. and 2) In either case, I think ATC should repeat until you give the correct readback. You didn't say "will stay clear of charlie" why didn't they call that out? An incomplete readback is just as incorrect as a wrong readback IMHO. Anyway, I'm glad it worked out, appreciate how you handled it humbly, and really appreciate that you shared this with the community :)
To enter class C you must hear your N-number. You can't enter it until that. A lot of times ATC will say, "Aircraft calling stand by". That is not a clearance to enter. They, I am sure, were busy and that is why they told him to remain clear. The PIC is supposed to know this and remain clear until the controller can except him. And you must follow all directions from ATC. So, of course, a N-number with remain clear of class C must be followed. However, a N-number, then "stand by" is a clearance into Class C. And for class B you have to have both a N-number AND "Cleared into Class B".
All you need is two way communication established. As long as they use your N-number. You don't need a squawk. You just want to hear your N-number to enter. @@BrianSiskind
Thanks yes I know the regs. I missed the remain clear part. Regardless I waited until receiving the squawk before climbing into Class C. That is the irony of the situation I ran into here.
I listened very carefully and I could not hear any additional comms that might have included "please remain outside of the class C." You did nothing wrong. You established two-way comms and the restriction was not received. What else could you have done? Oof. on a 3rd listen, I hear it in his very first response to you, prior to your request - a time that I would not have expected it. Buried in the static, a lot of people would have missed that. Given how close you are to KBNA I'm surprised your reception is so bad.
@@BrianSiskind Idk. if Tracon saw you busting an altitude and wanted you to stop the climb they could’ve easily given you an altitude to hold, before acknowledging the airplane that took off after you from KJWN.
Should not be an issue. The controller used your N-number and gave you a squawk code. That is two-way communication per the regs to enter Class C airspace.
8:00
love the rain-and-blue-skies vibe at the beginning.
“Remain clear of the Nashville class C, say request” at 4:45.
That said, good video sir, thanks for posting good aviation content.
no matter how many times i hear "Aircraft calling nashville class C" crazy Im sure Im wrong
What a situation. Handled it well. This is something I'll definitely keep in mind flying from Tune as well! I had to rewind the video because I was also confused, but heard the "stay clear of the class charlie, say request" the 2nd time I listened to it.
Don't let it discourage you from flying around here - BNA/JWN controllers are great and while it can be very busy and there have been a lot of recent changes, everyone is rolling with it and finding new best practices. This was kind of an anomalous comms situation and 99% of the time all this goes smoothly.
Don't feel bad, I didn't hear anything about staying clear of the Class C either.
I think you handled it perfectly. Offer a quick (and truthful) explanation, take responsibility, and apologize. I'm sure had you have said, "You never told me to stay clear! You said my tail number, I go where I want!" it would have been a different story.
I appreciate that. Definitely my fault for not hearing remain clear. But yeah I surely would not have asked to enter had I heard that.
Giving the “stay clear of Class C” on very first transmission contact, THEN receiving a squak… most pilots would receive as permission to enter.
Enjoyable. Merry Christmas! Keep up the good work!
I think you were legal to enter the Charlie as soon as he said your call sign … 91.130 (c) Communications. Each person operating an aircraft in Class C airspace must meet the following two-way radio communications requirements:
(1) Arrival or through flight. Each person must establish two-way radio communications with the ATC facility (including foreign ATC in the case of foreign airspace designated in the United States) providing air traffic services prior to entering that airspace and thereafter maintain those communications while within that airspace.
Yep!
I did not hear the initial "remain clear" - but thankfully did not enter the Class C until receiving a squawk code and establishing 2 way comms nonetheless.
@@BrianSiskind Did he say remain clear? If not then you are cleared in for sure regardless of the transponder. The second he said your call sign I think that you are clear. I am not 100% sure that he can say N123KL stay clear... All that being said regardless of him saying your call sign or not... if he said to stay clear I would have... that being said I listened to your video a few times and I never heard him say that.
The other thing is this is the reason I pick up IFR on the ground...
Ooops is right, glad the controller was pretty chill about it overall. Betting they've had to deal with a bunch of those since the introduction of the "super charlie". Happy it worked out ok and thanks for having the guts to share it :) Happy Holidays Brian!!
@AlyssaM_InfoSec what the heck is a “super Charlie”
www.newschannel5.com/news/its-a-change-you-cant-see-or-hear-but-instantly-makes-us-safer
Good looking Cherokee! Mine has the exact same paint job. N5174L
Radio issues stink. Hopefully you got them fixed or have a com 2 you can use.
Retired controller here and the controller was in the wrong , if he didnt want you in the class C before you were radar id he should have told you to remain clear of the C , if they use your N number that established communication and is what is needed to enter the C, radar contact is not require to enter .
@@v1rotation well i must have missed that part
Well done sir!
Love that you shared this. New subscriber.
Merry Christmas!
My question is, if the pilot didn’t acknowledge departure control’s transmission then why didn’t departure control make a second attempt to advise the pilot? Especially as the aircraft was getting closer and closer to the class C airspace.
Excellent point. I would guess it is because VFR traffic is on a workload permitting basis and they were juggling IFR traffic. Only a guess.
As others have said, thanks for posting this up. I always seek to learn from the “experiences” of other pilots.
I don’t think you did anything wrong here. The controller should have told you to remain clear of his airspace when he gave the the squawk code. Once he says your call sigh in a transmission without also telling you to remain clear, you technically have what you need to enter the Charlie airspace.
@@v1rotationit’s just unclear from the video when exactly he entered the Charlie airspace.
The controller is incorrect in saying that radar ID and a turn on course is required before entering.
As soon as he got that squawk code, he was cleared into Class C. Two way communication was established in that single transmission without further instruction to remain clear.
BNA app probably did use my callsign, but it came in under my squelch unfortunately just before I opened it as I realized reception was poor. That said, I did not climb into Class C until receiving the squawk which was after 2 way comms established. Flying runway heading from JWN the only shelf to contend with is only 2400, not the 1800 app/dep corridor shelf.
Thank you for sharing. That is a hard and good lesson. What was going on with the radio. That was hard to hear anything. Is there a better freg?
That's the only freq. Many have had interference issues in certain spots around JWN.
oh man...that really is not good. Anyone looking to have a repeater or something installed?@@BrianSiskind
I listened twice and couldn’t hear it.
It's tough to hear but it's there.
Just subscribed. Can you tell me what mount you are using for the cameral on the tail? Thank you.
Thanks! nflightcam.com
What’s up with your radio man? Happy holidays!
I know man and thanks! Likewise!
Even after listening a few times, all I hear is static. Was this how you heard it i the cockpit? If so, are there any ways to fix/improve this? My thoughts are 1) If I knew I heard something but couldn't make out what it was, I'd ask "Say again" but if I didn't know that I missed something, I'd be relying on ATC to try again until I acknowledged it. and 2) In either case, I think ATC should repeat until you give the correct readback. You didn't say "will stay clear of charlie" why didn't they call that out? An incomplete readback is just as incorrect as a wrong readback IMHO. Anyway, I'm glad it worked out, appreciate how you handled it humbly, and really appreciate that you shared this with the community :)
Thanks yes agree. There's no way I would just overtly disregard remain clear instruction. Things happen. All good 👍
To enter class C you must hear your N-number. You can't enter it until that. A lot of times ATC will say, "Aircraft calling stand by". That is not a clearance to enter. They, I am sure, were busy and that is why they told him to remain clear. The PIC is supposed to know this and remain clear until the controller can except him. And you must follow all directions from ATC. So, of course, a N-number with remain clear of class C must be followed. However, a N-number, then "stand by" is a clearance into Class C. And for class B you have to have both a N-number AND "Cleared into Class B".
@libertine5606 all true! I did not enter the class C until I established two way communications and received a squawk and read back.
All you need is two way communication established. As long as they use your N-number. You don't need a squawk. You just want to hear your N-number to enter. @@BrianSiskind
Thanks yes I know the regs. I missed the remain clear part. Regardless I waited until receiving the squawk before climbing into Class C. That is the irony of the situation I ran into here.
I listened very carefully and I could not hear any additional comms that might have included "please remain outside of the class C." You did nothing wrong. You established two-way comms and the restriction was not received. What else could you have done? Oof. on a 3rd listen, I hear it in his very first response to you, prior to your request - a time that I would not have expected it. Buried in the static, a lot of people would have missed that. Given how close you are to KBNA I'm surprised your reception is so bad.
When did he say to remain outside the Charlie?
4:44 - funny you ask... that was exactly what I was thinking! He sure did though. My bad for missing it. All good.
@@BrianSiskind Idk. if Tracon saw you busting an altitude and wanted you to stop the climb they could’ve easily given you an altitude to hold, before acknowledging the airplane that took off after you from KJWN.
I sure didn’t hear it
4:44 Sounds like he said remain clear class bravo
guess who's also not happy with you. headphone users ;)
Horrible comms!!!
Yep!
I file an IFR flight plan 99.9% of the time for exactly this reason.