The Fists of Steel Are ENTIRELY Broken
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- Опубліковано 11 вер 2024
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joe
Aight bro i will download it if it supports ya in any way
1
yo wtf is going on with your last tweet
@@theratman6718 mama
I believe what causes this exploit is more of a problem with how the medi gun works instead of the fists itself. Medi guns have increased Uber building when healing a target that is not fully overhealed. since the heavy isn’t reaching its 450 normal overheal and is instead being forced to stay at 390, the medi gun views it as not being fully overhealed and heals at the faster rate.
This is also why the Quick-Fix's Uber build speed does not change.
I genuinely think this is a feature, because it's been covered in a few medic videos in the past, I know Zesty had it on his Quick-fix video, but I'd have to go back and search for the others. I also think it's intended because this same affect can be achieved on three other classes, not just the heavy.
The Soldier's Equalizer, and the Pyro's Back Scratcher have the affect of slowly heal rate from all other sources but health packs, so it achieves the same affect of the fists of steel, just differently, allowing for a constant full uber build rate.
The Sniper also has the new Razorback's stats which also have an -100 Maximum Overheal, which should work exactly like the three weapons above. Not to mention the scout has always had a way to easily build Uber with the Boston Basher, so in my eyes it has to be an intended feature as, Five of the Nine Classes all can help build uber in some way, besides just taking damage.
If I am wrong, Then we'll see if Valve patches it, ever. But I do believe it's a legitimate feature and not an exploit.
@@shortbane6788 It is most likely a feature, minus it carrying over between weapons and even lives. They actually patched out the Quick-Fix's constant fast Uber build at one point, but then added it back.
I never felt Ubercharge get any faster when I tried to pocket a Razorback Sniper, but that could just be me. Or the fact that I use the Kritzkrieg so it always feels fast, so fast is actually slow to me.
Was gonna mention it, it isn't much of an exploit, what is on the other hand is the fact that the build speed stays when you switch classes, that's quite less intended by the devs i imagine.
1/3rd of the video is an ad. But besides that, this is a really neat feature, would've been nice to see a side-by-side of charging Ubers to see the actual difference.
Yeah, it’s a pity so much of it is an ad. But Joey’s gotta pay the bills somehow.
Unfortunately that's the consequence of taking RAID as a sponsor, I believe I've heard that their contract requires at least 2 minutes to be an ad.
Cringe + ratio
@Pearl Joey didnt have to do any of that speculation because you just did it for him. If he just told you it would have no meaning
the quick fix basically already always builds at the fastest rate, because it never reaches 150% overheal. no change there.
for the rest, its good practice anyways to always be healing hurt teammates. If you keep on top of that, you will always be building at the fastest rate.
Minus the character switch part, I've known about this weapon exploit for about 2 years and was very surprised that not a lot of people knew about it.
Because it is not used often?
i discovered this a while back since im a heavy/engie main, when i was new i looked over the stats the steel gloves look cool and are practical. but learning about medigun too i put two and two together and noticed that since the gloves lowerd max overheals the medigun techincaly dosent get the overheal nerf cuz im not above 125% overheal. i didnt however know that you could move off the gloves and it would still build fast, but that dosent matter to me as much. whats sad is i try telling this to my medic (pubs, sometimes community) to heal me and build uber fast, or when im medic to use the gloves, but they just dont listen. they litterly purposely ignorantly heal a basher scout in spawn instead of me in combat while still reaping benefits. T_T no wonder why the enemy team pops off uber like 3-4 times a match while our team only gets like 1 at the beginning...
(yes when i play medic i dont pop very often either cuz i die alot, im not a good medic, i just play him to heal my team when they dont have one already, im doing my job by healing everyone and keeping everyones health mostly full, so im in fronlines alot, and uh, die. alot)
Just scanned the QR code and got a Palpitoad in my copy of Pokémon ultra moon, thanks big Joey!
what the fuck
Wit
You play that
Based
Based
I feel like describing it as "double ubercharge speed" is misleading. It's the default charging speed, there's a harsh slowdown for targets with over 142.5% of their health, which the FoS prevents you from getting to.
•The bonus isn't that the medigun gets charge faster, it's that the medic doesn't need to switch targets to keep up. Ergo, this is a bonus when the medic can't or won't heal other players.
•This _does_ technically improve the vaccinator charge-rate, but it'll take something around 20 seconds of unbroken healing before you would be at 142.5% max hp(this is hard to count due to crit heals), while the penalty is immediate of getting 4.8 overheal per seconds as a base.
•This also does nothing in favor of the quickfix, which already can't reach 145% hp.
•There is, however, an interesting side effect here that self-damage can't replicate: Crit heals "cook" while this weapon is out. Unlike the boston basher and explosives, you're not damaging yourself, so you have a crit heal stored up, on top of being at 130% of max hp. With the crit heals, the medic can quickly reapply the beam, and heal the last 60 hp within a second, so long as you've been untouched before he does so.
Also, fun facts:
•The razorback would also do this, but Valve fixed _that_.
•The vaccinator charges fastest when you're hurt. If you really wanna charge the vacc, try and get beat up before and while the beam is connected to you. If you can avoid dying or getting to full health for 24 unbroken seconds, you'll charge get all four charges in that time. (This equates to 345 healing, at least. You will need to take at least two separate hits, less than 10 seconds apart, to prevent crit heals. Of course, you'll probably already have a head start on the charge, so it's not as difficult as that.
Medichad comment right here
Thanks for the explanation
Wth is a crit heal
i wanted to add:
-you can negate the holster speed penalty by switching to your secondary before switching to your primary, so it's good for baiting the enemy into pulling out their melee, and you fool em by whipping out your tomislav and gunning them down, which is even more broken
-even when you take damage, the overheal cap does not change, so joey really is right when he says that only breaking the heal beam and rehealing will change the uber build speed
i know this because i was gonna make a video on it myself, i was testing it and even working on a script, but i don't think there's much point anymore
Do it home, it'd be great to see your own take on it. Maybe even a more/less so technical savy?
you can also just switch from the fos to your primary back to the fos and then your primary again, since the holster speed only applies when the weapon is fully taken out
Big F, my boi.
Fun fos fact for all you heavy mains: The FOS only downside that can't be cheesed is the meele one. The switch speed debuff can be cheesed by switching to your secondary then to your minigun. The overheal decrease gets removed when you eat the bar.
I guess for the melee one there's random crits or switching to your minigun
@@amienabled6665 Is it really cheese if that requires you to use a different weapon?
Another Humongous Geoffrey video?
Now this is a certified gamer moment.
some would say ginormous Geoffrey
@@randomfolk9545 gigantic
@@The-JAILOR Large
Large Jeremy
@@sushitime5052 large larry
I've used this weapon for a lot of years and I always knew about this secret stat
Wot
Secret stat?!?!?!??!?!?!?!?!!?!?!?!?!?!?
crit go brrrr
Wait thats real?
"way back during the jungle inferno update" hurts a little inside
No mention of rapid swapping to avoid the holster penalty? That's another thing to tack on here about how good the weapon is.
You alright bro? People are worried after what you said on Twitter
what did he say on twitter?
what did he say
@@ruileite4579 He said something about 41% suicide rate and how the game is full of “troons” or something. I really don’t know what he was talking about but I’m kinda worried too.
@@sants2674 what? where?
@@sants2674 That must have been taken down. All I saw on his twitter is this weird apology video. Almost like a suicide post
would love to see big joey fragging without a medic attached to him for the entirety of the video
@Sisu Litost (subs) just weed. your point is valid but if you watch any of his other videos mine stands as well
@Sisu Litost (subs) also most weapons work better with a medic. it's called overheal and it's a pretty powerful advantage
... the video is about how the weapon interacts with medic.
You're not a real Heavy main if you don't have a pocket medic surgically attached to your ass
@@vyor8837 exactly. Do people even listen to what he says before they complain?
It's uh.. not broken. That's how uber build rate works. Since Heavy never reaches max overheal, the medic never gets the uber rate penalty for healing a fully overhealed target. 😅
ive been running the fists of steel this whole time because of the bot crisis and i never once realized this buff, especially helps since im usually lucky to have medics up my ass most games.
For those who want a little extra detail what is going on here is that mediguns all have a 50% reduction to uber build rate when your patient gets above 142.5% health. The FOS prevent you from ever getting to that overheal amount much like the quick fix does. The vaccinator will still get its first build penalty for having any over heal (going from 24s for 100% on damaged players to 36s on players with any over heal) but this will let you build stock and kritz and the max rate without having to switch targets. You can achieve much the same effect by just spreading heals around, but if you just want to shove a stock or kritz deep into your friends gi tract and don't care about being able to burst heal with the crossbow feel free to try this. Also a nice way to build in the setup times or on rollouts. Definitely nothing game breaking by any means as you can get more or less the same if not better results by just playing med well.
The only reason I actually already knew about this exploit was because it's ALSO been on the Quick-Fix this entire time. The reason it works for both these weapons is that medic's Uber gain rate is reduced once his patient's overheal reaches ~140%, BUT because both these weapons have overheal penalties equal to or over that amount, that slower Uber build penalty never gets activated. Obviously, these bonuses are unintentional (especially the switching stuff with the FoS I didn't even know that was a thing), so hopefully these long-standing bugs will be patched like those wrap assassin and building deploying ones from this smissmas.
im fairly sure the qf one was already patched
@@rua5910 I don't think so? It still feels like I build Uber more than just the base +10% at least.
@@elemangell2981 i believe almost all issues with mediguns build rates have been patched
@@rua5910 It may have been at one point, but that's not the case in the current day. Load up an offline server and give the Quick-Fix a spin, and time your Uber build from 0% to 100%. You'll find it's around 36 seconds, provided you're not healing someone who's already at or near full overheal from any of the other Medi Guns.
@@rua5910 Definitely not. I am a medic main who uses the quick fix regularly and the double Uber rate is why it's even useful.
If I had a nickel for every time Raid would be sponsored by a tf2 youtuber, I'd have two nickles. Which isn't weird beause it's only happened twice
good video
Which tf2 youtuber making enough money to sponsor Raid???
@@lordderpingtonII fish
I think the most terrifying part about this is that since it stays if you change, you can compound this with self damage to make sure you're always at max heal rate, too.
Taking damage decreases heal rate. It wouldn't help you in this situation.
That's not how it works
Just a small but significant correction: "rate" means "speed," not "time"
"uber rate is cut in half" means "uber builds at half speed," not "uber takes half the time to build"
You must be very young.
he also calls the FoS a "secondary melee" item and says it grants a "40% damage buff" against ranged damage. its actually a "melee unlock" and "40% damage buff against ranged sources of damage" is absolute nonsense scripting, what happened to the word "resistance"?
When Big Joey showed his face in this video, for a moment I said to myself...
"Is that JackSpeticEye?!"
a raid ad _disguised_ as a weapon review
one of my favorite fucking stupid strats is literally to sprint at the cart with the fists of steel out if my team aint pushing it. somehow you can push it a decently long way before getting stopped.
Personally, I think this is broken but not by much since you need a medic in the first place and 40 seconds, yes being faster is still 40 seconds and during that you can die from a lot of means such as snipers, crits, backstabs, or the holiday punch. I do admit having an ubercharge time being cut in half is broken, but not to the degree you label it due to the pre mentioned variables ( though the medic one is smaller than the killing one, however you are liable to the skill of the medic and their game knowledge)
@thcirblueerf you make a good point
Promotion Skip Button: 3:32
As a medic main I've always known this cuz of how the medigun works if the heal target is at like 140% health(I forgor 💀 what exactly) you start building Uber slower but because the fist of steel caps heavy's health just under that mediguns charge at the maximum rate it can
this also applies to escape plan, the equalizer, the razorback and any other unlock that has a downside relating to less healing/overheal from medics. I thought people already knew about this, guess not.
Its official Big Joey sold his soul to raid shadow legends
The same bug happened with the razorback, hopefully it’ll get patched
Well hello there
@@inspektor5560 oh hey there pan man!
it's only been 2 minutes and already there's 90 likes
joey what kind of force do you have
Note that Quick Fix is NOT boosted by FoS because its max overheal is already lower. 36s is the default build time for Quick Fix.
I got no problem with Joey promoting raid. I can just fast forward and the dude still gets money. Big Joey gets money, that makes me happy.
Alright, fat fact bomb coming
So, I would say this is more of a "Medigun interaction with TF2 items" instead of "the brokeness of the fist of steel and it's exploitness". See, it's not really that the rate at wich uber builds is double, it's that it avoids the medigun's übercharge gain rate penalty that happens when you heal a teammate at more than 90% of max overheal amount. This might only be usefull in comp or in casuals to gain über at spawn, but I doubt that it's that gamechanger as you hype it up for. Though I didn't knew that the reduced overheal persisted through classes. Anyways, nice video.
"All the way back in Jungle Inferno"
You make me sad.
This applies to anything that reduces the heal rate from healers, like the backscratcher and the equalizer, because its more a property of the mediguns, only thing new to me is the retaining when switching class which likey also works with these other weapons, a bit saddened but not really your fault.
Ok Big Joey I don't think that you'll see this message, but if you do consider reading it coz it covers fist of steels facts that you didn't talk about in your video.
One of the cons of using the Fist of steels (I'll just shorten this to "FOS") is slower switching speed as you said it. Lets say that you want to switch off the FOS to take your primary. You can neglet this con by switching to your secondary first and then your primary. The slower holster speed will be applied to the first weapon switch: the one from FOS to your secondary but you can instantly switch from your secondary to your primary. I know that it sounds kinda hard to do but is actually really easy. Just press 3 to switch to the FOS then 2 then 1, in a row and you can neglet this attribute. With the same logic you can switch to your secondary much faster by first switching to your primary then your secondary.
It doesn't stop there. See you mentionned the importance of "not breaking the beam" to build the ubercharge faster. This only happens if when the beam gets connected to the heavy, the heavy is running his FOS then your max HP will be stuck at 390 and you'll build uber faster. BUT if when the beam gets connected you are holding your primary or secondary then you can switch to the FOS to have your maximum 450hp overheal. Why is this important? By doing this you will have 450 hp + 40% hp thanks to the FOS. This means that your actual hp are: 450*1.4=630 hp. YES you can have up to 630 hp with the FOS which means that you CANNOT be killed by anything in one shot, except backstabs. Even taunt kills will not kill you because it can only do 500 damage and a fully charged machina headshot only does -518 damage.
Alright I hope you'll notice this
I guess this is why there have been more than 3 heavies with 2 pocket medics in most causal lobbies I join.
Oh so thats why medics have a hundred ubers to pop up their ass now
Given the history of competitive rulings on weapon bans, hinging primarily on a deciding factor of, _"Does running it force the other team to also do so to maintain competitivity...?"_ , the bug of maintaining increased Uber build rate between switches, should most likely be patched...
Retaining the increased build rate while the fists are equipped, could provide an advantage, but a conditional one, restricting weapon selection to take advantage of it, and giving the enemy team the option to focus-fire, and potentially catch the enemy Heavy off-guard whilst attempting this, as a counter-play.
So it's like the heavy's version of the backscratcher
4:10
Well, that's nothing special. Quick-Fix still builds at its max rate on any class, Fists of Steel or not, provided that another medic hasn't already overhealed them to the full 150%. I know they tried to tweak it in either Jungle Inferno or Blue Moon so that this wouldn't be the case, but that ended up not lasting. Test it out for yourself in-game if you think I'm lying.
yo big joey, i don't know you know this or not about the fist of steel but the weapon holster speed state, dose not exist if you use a special trick, if you have the fist of steel out and want to switch to something fast like a shotgun, all you need to do is switch to the mini gun and quickly switch to the shot gun, melee to main to side. I think this work because weapon holster speed dose not effect weapons that fully holstered so you can cancel the slow holster speed by switching to the sandwich or the shotgun. btw this works with any weapon that has the weapon holster speed stat
Wow Joey hot take. That’s almost as wild as saying the enforcer is broken.
Ten years in development, here’s your Heavy update:
i shuddered when he said the phrase "WAY back during the jungle inferno update"
ah, so you're why i saw all the heavies using the fists yesterday afternoon
1:57 - *"Ah shit, here we go again."*
I feel like if they keep this bug, they'll remove the doubled Uber rate after switching classes, that way you can't just switch to your preferred class of choice after getting 2 seconds of playtime with heavy just so you can get the bonus.
1:59 this is the most cursed thing i saw on this channel, hairless joey
Now the real question is, if you do this trick, then switch to scout to self damage with the Boston basher, can it go even further beyond?
The uber gets built faster because the target isn't fully overhealed. Boston Bashing as Scout also prevents your from getting fully overhealed, hence why it helps build. Therefore, the effects dont stack.
However, the vaccinator builds faster on players below 100℅, so Boston Basher will always be the superior uber builder.
@@ThatGuyBobby on every medi gun but the vacc, no. you can divide uber build rate in 3:
0℅-100℅
100℅-142.5℅
142.5℅-150℅
Every medi gun builds at full speed on the first category and all but the vacc build at full speed on the second category. For the third one, all medi guns build twice as slow with a couple exceptions.
The quickfix can only overheal up to 125℅, hence why its build rate is unaffected by this penatly. The second one is the Fists of Steel. Since the fists of steel only allow you to overheal up to 130℅ HP, the medi gun doesn't suffer from the anti pocketing build nerf (the 3rd category of build speed).
The video didn't make this clear, so hopefully this does. Let me know if this helps or if you have any questions!
TL:DW it's like the quick fixes lower overheal meaning it always builds at full speed, but for every medigun
"Way back in the Jungle Inferno Update" hit me really hard because damn, that was way back.
Another perk of fists of steel: damage surfing with sentries becomes much more reliable bc of less damage
Eh as someone who plays a lot of medic you can normally get an Uber in 40 secs by just playing the game normally but this is helpfully
I want to note something, you can partially bypass the slower holster by switching to the item you don’t want, then immediately the one you do want (If you want to go from the fists of steel to your minigun, it’s faster to switch to your secondary and then immediately your primary than just your primary) and for some reason when a medic starts healing me when I don’t have the fists of steel out, it can overhear me to 450 health, and it stays that way if I switch to the fists of steel afterward
that explains the 46 ubers back on faceit
It's really worth noting that this doesn't apply JUST to the Fists of Steel. This applies to almost anything that either lowers your maximum overheal or slows how much healing you get from the Mediguns. You can get the same effect from damaging yourself as Soldier and holding the escape plan and reaping the pitiful heal rate for fast uber. Scouts do stuff like this with the Boston Basher.
Let's not get HEAVY of all classes nerfed lmao
All "downsides" on this weapon are circumventable with one button. They might as well not exist.
All stats apply the moment you start deploying, not when you finish deploying.
You can just start deploying your minigun for a split second if you see a melee attack coming. You aren't actually making yourself more vulnerable to anything.
A short and quick video, but I gotta complain.
The entire video is 25% sponsorship. And the product being pushed is legitimately worse than having no video games at all.
I don’t know why I expected more from Big Joey considering how he held Faceit like some kind of paragon of TF2 enjoyment to the bitter end, but I still wish for better.
He liked faceit because it was a new and exciting thing for a community that hadn’t gotten much that was new and exciting for a while, and as for the ad, well, you can skip past it pretty easily, and for him it’s free sponsorship money.
@Pearl Yeah, he could have. I wish he had. I don’t think any of the youtubers promoting faceit were part of some kind of ‘conniving’ system, though; ZestyJesus was definitely talking out of his ass with that. SolarLight (among others) made some pretty good responses to those accusations on places like reddit.
@Pearl Yeah, I can agree with pretty much everything you just said. It was faceit seeking profit and lying that was the problem, not the youtubers inadvertently shilling for the stupid system.
As long as it requires Medic girlfriend, it's never gonna be a detrimental exploit
Sadge fact
I started Laughing when the Raid ad came because i thought it was a joke lol
But it was not.
1:41 "way back in the Jungle Inferno update"
me: wym 'way back' it wasnt that-
google: oct 2017
me: wh... what
Gotta love when UA-cam videos are comprised by 1/3rd of paid sponsorship, an unskippable ad before it even plays and ~4:20 of actual content can be effortlessly fit in a 1 minute short video.
The state of UA-cam in 2021, everyone!
90 second sponsorship in a 6 and a half minute video? get that fuckin' paycheck boy hell yeah
Holoska Night Music? Good taste, Joey. Good taste.
I can never get over the acid trip that is big Joey intros
Well, now the game will be filled with instant-über heavies, this will be spies heaven lol
"Short-haired Big Joey isn't real, he can't hurt you."
Short-haired Big Joey: 1:57
Basically the Stock becomes a much better Quick-Fix with these things out. Still not fixed so gg.
Now knowing this as both a Heavy *and* a Medic main, this information makes me very moist :)
NOOOO WHY DID YOU TELL THEM OUR SECRET???? ONLY HEAVY MAINS WERE SUPPOSED TO KNOW IT *Heavy Dying Sound*
No wonder every time I see that one medic he always has uber
No medics would listen or care if you need to make Uber faster
I feel the double speed uber rate statement is inaccurate, those are the default build rates for those ubers
Uber rate is increased when the patient you're healing is about 144% HP or something like that if I remember correctly
uber build rate is decreased when the patient is at 145.5% max HP.
High uber build rate good
Low uber build rate bad
Joey is a fuck nugget.
“Way back during the Jungle Inferno Update” 😞
What even happened that heavy is unstoppable…
Another classic case of source spaghetti
If my thougths are correct i think this also happens with the vac and auick fix at all tine because they have the less overheal downside which cant reach the 142.5% overheal debuff...
Damm i didn't know that hidden stat until now, maybe I should be a heavy main
Yooo big joey with the nostalgic sonic unleashed ost, tbh cool edge night was exilerating af
I love my monthly dosis of Enlarged Joseph
"today we'll be talking about an exploit" I swear if this is the uber build thing i'll be pissed, that is not an exploit
I'm pretty sure this bug is actually part of a greater bug related to load-out switching while being healed, and weapon stats like that.
I've used the fists for years and never knew this! Why has no one else reported on this?!
fyi uber rate being cut in half literally means it takes twice as long
im still amazed it took this long for people to figure this out
Should also mention that you can bypass the holster speed restriction by quickswitching AND that the overheal penalty only applies when the weapon is active and not on wearer like the stats says. It's a fun weapon to use but it's mad broken lol.
That music sounds like its from the Beatlejuice movie
idk the math involved but I'm pretty sure the 40% dmg reduction was always more EHP than the healing/overheal you're missing out on from using it, so it wasn't a great nerf to begin with if that's what it was supposed to be
This perk isn't "broken".
it's a way to say the fists of steel isn't bad.
Bruh you used the best night stage music from my favorite and totally underrated sonic game, for that I tip my hat to you good sir
Dang Joey you look so different without long hair. Love the haircut my man
Honestly I'd be down to split this into 2 weapons. Call the new fists the mending mitts. Double Uber while active, 100% slower switch rate, and a swing speed penalty
I was not expecting sonic riders zero gravity music. I forget which map it was on
Did they fix this btw?
New Huge Jimmy episode! All hail the heavy mains!
I love your vids big joey keep it up
The Fists of Steel have the most downsides out of any weapon in the game (besides maybe the Caber and the dead ringer) but the irony is that none of them are really downsides.
• The weapon switch penalty can be bypassed by switching weapons twice
• The melee vulnerability can be bypassed with the weapon switch exploit and it doesn’t make much of difference since the average Melee only deals 130 when the fists of steel are active, meaning you can tank 3-4 melee hits if you’re overhealed.
• The healing penalties don’t matter because they can be bypassed, they help the medic build Uber, and if you pull out the Fists of steel, that’s your overheal right there.
The ambassador has 4 negative perks as well, and it has all downsides that actually hurt it lmao
Actually, a normal melee hit deals 65 damage. Not 130.
@@TheCheesiestNacho I know but you have to multiply it by 2 which is 135, because of the 100% Melee vulnerability of the fists of steel (100% of 65 is 65, so the equation is 65+65 which is 130)
Imagine a soldier with a medic gf who has double buildrate it sounds like hell