Thank you so much for watching another episode of Loadout! We hope you got a kick out of this episode as well as our lil time at the range. As always make sure you subscribe, share your thoughts and let us know what else you'd like to see an episode on in the future. Myself and the team appreciate the support for Loadout, and hope you all continue to enjoy the series!
Got to ask Dave, how are the firearms experts and loadout videos gonna be effected by UA-cam new gun rules? I know a lot of guntubers are looking at other platforms off the back of them.
The T-101 also carried two different weapons--assault rifle and shotgun--and used them separately, not truly together. It shot one in certain situations and the other in certain situations. A layer of realism and practicality added to the spectacle of Arnold laying waste with two guns.
@@leifwulffstephan3725 not really, he has real bad aim, at least for a robot made for killing; you can even see it in a pov shot in the first one during the police station shootout. Robocop on the other hand, now there's some aimbot.
It was sad how bad he was. It is very clear he gets no time to train. Had they hgad a real shooter on the video they would have been shown how effective dual wielding really is.
I ran a gun range after I got out of the Corps and we had almost 100 different handguns for rentals. I got to shoot all of them and eventually tried dual wielding after hours. I've shot handguns competitively and even with all my practice, akimbo was hilariously hard to do. BUT it still looked and felt awesome.
My dad was really into it but I've done a bit of cowboy action shooting the best way I've found is to keep both up and slightly offset of being where you would hold it if shooting normally one handed and moving it to get your sight picture and just alternate which gun is being aimed and fired. With single actions its much faster than firing 6 shots and reloading to fire another 6 but still slower compared to how quickly I can take follow up shots normally.
That's not surprising, the eyes move as a unit and one of them is dominant over the other. Normally, the dominant eye will be on the same side as the dominant hand, but I had an uncle that was left handed and right eyed and would do this weird thing of holding the rifle in his dominant hand and look through the sight with his dominant eye. He was a decent enough shot as he did hunt for a number of years, but it seemed a bit risky for any rifle that's got a kick to it.
5:52 It's worth noting that Rise of The Triad was another early first person shooter with pistols akimbo, and actually released _the exact same day_ as Marathon. So technically, they're both the first FPS games to feature dual weilding pistols.
Personally, that's the first place that I heard the term and I had no idea what it meant. GIven how crazy some of the cheat codes and the like were at the time, that wasn't an unreasonable thing to miss. Especially if you're not surrounded with enthusiasts that are into that sort of thing.
I liked the Way Django used his revolvers in tarantinos version. At least in a few scenes he alternates between them instead of actively using them for the same target and rather cover more than one angle at a time only turning his head to the gun he uses instead of moving his arm around. It's still not adviseable I'd say but it makes more sense then holding both infront of you. Atleast it seems smarter xD
if you're ambidextrous it kind of makes sense and with revolvers having 12 instead of 6 rounds might save you from getting shot during a lengthy reload...
As someone who is legitimately ambidextrous I can tell you that alternating hands while doing something is very possible the problem with using both hands simultaneously is mentally processing what you're doing but alternating shooting hands isn't what this video is talking about
Lara Croft does that in games because of autoaim when there's multiple targets around, but first person shooters have the problem of very narrow PoV and no peripheral vision so we're stuck with guns pointed forward there.
@@KasumiRINA you could use a specific keybind for switching between the guns and always switch to the second one as soon as the first is dry. but that doesn't makie sence in a game that only has akimbo as a fun feature to look cool and thus it's never been done to my knowledge. obv you could shoot in different directions but that way you could balance it by still having double the guns but if you ever want to aim them right you have to switch between them to shoot and aim one at a time. the need for the switching via manual command input would also require a little bit more skill than without it and as such atleast contribute a small bit to balance but that's just me rambling
it seems like dual wielding would be more suited to someone comfortable with "shooting from the hip", since it seems like the problems jonathan was having were centered around trying to make accurate target shots with each hand.
Well, there is definitely something called 'point shooting', where you don't really use the iron sights on the gun itself to hit things at close ranges. However, you'll always be shooting less accurately than someone using iron sights (or a red dot) and both hands to control the recoil of one handgun. Especially in follow up shots.
The main situation where I can see it being useful is in close quarters when going through doors that allows you to shoot things on both sides based on sight and sound. Obviously, that's an incredibly specific situation that would also require somebody to be ambidextrous or at least decent enough in their off hand to manage it. They would also need to be good at locating things by sound, which is definitely possible, but hard to get right.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade reminds me of some missions in Hotline Miami 2 where one character dual wields machine pistols. Pretty handy (no pun intended) when enemies come from both sides of the halway.
@@ethinos2719 Regarding point shooting, that was my thought. I also noticed Johnathan shook a little while shooting and it seemed like he had a bit of a flinch. If this is true, he obviously won't shoot well to begin with. Also, shooting off handed is a skill that requires practice.
I know a guy who regularly carries two airsoft pistols into "combat". And when I asked him how he does it he had some interesting points to make. First of, if he's in a shootout and a pistol runs out, he will simply holster it and put his other hand on the other pistol until there is a lull in the fight where he can reload the second pistol. When both are in use he mostly uses them one at the time simply to extend his capacity. But if there are multiple angles of defense, then he will often keep them pointed in different directions since it is faster to turn his head then to turn his head then it is to move a gun. This has occasionally also led to him blindly firing in a direction to suppress someone while he deals with someone else with the pistol he's focusing on. Which he fully admits mostly leads to the one he's trying to suppress simply shooting him. Mostly though, it has worked for him. He says the benefit is minimal, and the ease of having a free hand to reloading with is substantial. But while it is higher effort, it does provide some benefit. That said, he has also stated that if he was to go into actual combat, then he would generally only use one pistol at the time.
There are some that are totally possible like killing floor 2 most of the normal pistols have a physically possible reload if your hand is big enough you'd probably damage the slide though. The cowboy revolver and .44 mag would be impossible to do realistically though.
I can’t remember where I read this, but someone said that many if not most historically recorded instances of people dual wielding pistols are misinterpretations of people carrying multiple pistols in order to perform whats often called a New York reload, shooting a gun until it’s empty than dropping or reholstering it and draw a fresh gun. This especially common before the advent of easy to reload autoloading pistols, and is often evidenced by the fact what people often wore a pair of guns in strong side and crossdraw holsters, which would be awkward to drop from with your non-dominant hand.
An ambidextrous character would be able to adapt the principle of the New York Reload to more traditional dual wielding with a gun in each hand; just shoot one dry and seamlessly switch to the other, Wild Bill Hickock style, no holstering necessary. (Optional bonus: Wick Flick to get rid of the spent magazine of the empty gun while still shooting the other gun.)
Jonathon Furgason is officially one of the people I would buy dinner for just to have a nice chat with. He's knowledgeable but more importantly, he seems like a genuinely nice guy.
Following the example set by the Matrix, the most obvious tactic would be dual New York reloads. Proper reloads either need both hands or lots of time.
I've noticed in those old westerns, and the clip they showed here matched, they're not usually blasting away with both pistols at once. They fire one, bring the other in line with their eyes to aim, fire that, and cycle. Which is also what Mando does in the Mandalorian. Which makes sense as it's an old western in space. It's probably best, in the real world, to just keep using the one pistol until it's out and switch. But still, it's a compromise and a bit more realistic than firing both from the hip.
A shame you guys didn't feature Bayonetta as an example of a video game character who famously dual wields but even goes further as to have guns strapped to her ankles.
I figure they didn't because Bayo runs on magic and has her own insane fighting style. I am surprised there wasn't even a brief clip of Dante from DMC, though
Great video as always! I only wish that they mentioned Hitman: Codename 47 and how you can secretly get akimbo pistols by holding down "ctrl" as you select pistols from the inventory! I found out about akimbo pistols by picking up a pistol from the ground with one already drawn. He then switches the drawn pistol to his left hand and picks up the new one with his right hand. Insane detail that I think most people miss
I just realised that reasons why akimbo weapons are in the games/movies/etc are same reasons why Dante from Devil May Cry dual wields any ranged weapon. 1 - To show how cool Dante is 2 - To maximise the effects and firepower (only type of power that Vergil overlooks) in every battle 3 - Because he is half-human, half-demon, he can technically deal with any recoil theese weapons have: from his iconic pistols to automatic rocket launchers
Call of Juarez Gunslinger had a very good implementation for akimbo dual wielding (with option set to akimbo so you can use left and right mouse buttons for shooting and LeftAlt key for zooming). The initial reload animation was the best (the one before upgrading the reload from the skill tree).
A guy called Face Full Of Eyes did a great video on handedness in games and included a whole (massive) segment on dual wielding. I never thought I’d sit through a ~2h video on handedness but here we are!
The most realistic and authentic dual-wielding experience I've ever gotten in a game surprisingly came from playing Call of Duty Black Ops on the hardest difficulty. It was the "The Numbers"-mission (rooftops), where you start off with dual-wielded CZ-75's and they were so inaccurate that the only way to not die was to rush an enemy and mag-dump them and steal a weapon that could be properly wielded.
I'd like to see a video about "Using guns to shoot things other than bad guys to defeat enemies." Just like how the movie Shoot 'em Up used the Max Payne trope but made the main character use his guns on the environment to take out baddies instead.
Can’t believe you didn’t mention Salvador from borderlands 2. He could use two of any gun, including rocket launchers and heavy machine guns in any combination.
How about dual wielding pistols with a laser attached to them? It surely can be easier, since the laser sort of guides you, and you don't need to aim down sights as much
It would help with accuracy a bit, but wouldn't affect the increase in recoil recovery. Also, imagine if one laser dot was on the target and one was off onto a bystander. You couldn't risk firing either pistol (unless you got two laser sights with different colored beams 😄)
Laser attachment does help immensely if used with training and muscle memory. With lasers sighted in, I could decide to ignore my iron sight alignment, which cost Jonathan a lot of time between each round fired. He also didn't lock his elbows out, which is pretty standard in one handed shooting training.
You'd still have to be trying to focus on both laser dots at one time. I'd consider that additional concentration to be a detriment when you should probably be more focusing on the threat and your surroundings.
@@ethinos2719 TBH, that can be trained the same way that drummers can learn to keep different time with their left and right hands. But, it seems like a lot of work for marginal benefit and spending the time on other things would probably lead to better results. Either in terms of avoiding those kinds of confrontations or in terms of being able to use the one sidearm more effectively.
@@ethinos2719 What if you emptied one magazine, then used the laser on the second pistol to quickly acquire a sight? It seems the biggest time waster is trying to alternate sight pictures.
The thing I liked best about equilibrium was the idea of shooting style based on the most likely placement of enemies and then cementing those moments into muscle memory with strict training. It added some legitimacy to the whole akimbo thing. It's not just because it looked cool...I mean it was but they just came up with an excuse.
Probably the best Akimbo reload I've seen came from an animation mod way back in Counter-Strike 1.6. 1) Drop both mags while in each hand. 2) Transfer both pistols to the dominant hand. 3) Insert the mags one at a time. 4) Take the pistols back in each hand. 5) Activate the slide locks. Probably the way I'd attempt it if I were going to try this for real.
I think the only possible real life application for dual wielding is if you want to randomly send a lot of bullets somewhere and you only have two pistols.
I've always wondered if dual wielding might not be more possible if the guns fired had less or some how no recoil. Or would the idea of dropped accuracy still make it worthless?
@@aliciafraser1835 I mean that's true of all shooting. Shooting one gun at a time would be more effective with less or zero recoil. The accuracy drop would really make it a specialist thing, some people have the rare skill of accurately firing from the hip, but its very uncommon, especially with both hands. The biggest use is to avoid having to reload, thus why it was good back in the golden age of piracy.
@@TheGrumbliestPuppy That's why in airsoft cqb dual wileding is a great option. (and you have the time and saftey to build fingerpoint shooting aim skills)
I think the best application would be if you need to hit multiple targets at once and at close range. For example if you burst in through a door and there's one guy to the left and another to the right and you need to shoot them at the same time in order to not get shot yourself. Thats about the only use i can think of. People really forget that 2 guns means you can aim in 2 directions...
I was an arcade geek as a kid. We did not try dual-wielding on Time Crisis because the game also has the pedal mechanic so we would quickly lose our balance. We did, however, try it on House of the Dead and it was awesome... for about 10 seconds. My shots would only hit if the zombie was right on top of me or if I was shooting a crowd which does not help at all because it was still a crowd with just one zombie fewer. Needless to say, I'd learned my lesson of not wasting what was then a valuable resource on flights of fancy.
so it wasn't mentioned until the end, but as a TRAINED akimbo wilder, I would stress safety and being a true ambidextrous person, many people I train are not and often will shoot their own hands (with training pistols) when they get overzealous. this applies to swords as well, and the idea of dual wielding anything more than a compact smg is insane, rifles are heavy and long and the thought of even something small is tiring to think of
Very happy to see Marathon featured here. That game had a lot of FPS firsts, including dual-wielding and alt-fire. Marathon 2: Durandal took it even further and let you dual-wield double-barelled shotguns. The reload animation had the player spinning them around like a lever-action rifle, but I remember Durandal himself (the rampant AI) saying that we shouldn't try to understand the reload system as our tiny human brain couldn't comprehend it.
Mythbusters also did an episode on this. They found it was effective only when firing at two targets on opposite sides of the body, so the guns weren't interfering with each other. Of course, to replicate this in a field you would need your targets to be standing perfectly still and not firing back.
So more less scenario mentioned here that someone shot 4 people in close quarters. Also problem with Akimbo is that you cannot use your other hand to support your main weapon. So dual wielding even if shooting from one makes you much less accurate. Shooting from two 2-handed weponas (even if these are SMGs) is a nonsence. Again - probably only useful to flood a room with bullets without knowing where foes are standing exactly.
Standing perfectly still, not firing back, and close enough to hit without even looking directly at them. So it might work in the Bat Masterson scenario where you've just burst into a crowded room full of people who were not expecting you, so pretty much no matter where you shoot, you hit someone.
@@ajm5007 indeed, the only scenario I can think of where it's actually potentially beneficial is if there's many guys directly in front of you, closeup, and you need the extra rounds because of their numbers. if you CANT miss, every extra shot is good.
Having played a few TTRPGs I will say the benefit of having two guns, specially pistols, is that it doubled my magazine and I really appreciated when my friend wanted to, making sure he took ambidextrous, so that he could fire them one at a time expanding how many shots he could have. I'm also always reminded of that scene from NCIS where Ziva, the Mossad assassin, was guarding a person and there were two doors into the small room and so she took out both pistols so she could cover both. Either way it always made more sense to me to do it like the pirates and shoot one gun well and then pull out the other one and shoot it well negating that pesky reload.
I’ve been trying to think of ANY time in human history that akimbo would be a superior tactical choice, and I think I got one. In a standoff during an attempted mutiny, a captain wielding two handfuls of duck’s foot pistols would double his intimidation factor. I’m kind of amazed they never used that in Pirates of the Caribbean, on reflection. Would have been a great visual gag. Other than that, I got nothing.
The only situation I can think of would be covering fire - if you don't have an automatic to hand, sheer volume of bullets would help to keep opponents from emerging and taking aim. But again, you're relying on intimidation as much as anything else, and for it to work you would need to have spent time at the range specifically practicing that style. The 'no aim, just fire' approach might suffice to pin down the enemy while your own squad moved into a more advantageous position.
One of the most comically effective bits of dual wielding was real time mode in the rough diamond that was xcom: apocalypse. The game let you equip in both hands for grenades etc, but the only penalty in real time mode was a small accuracy buff - more than worth it for agents hefting a giant alien energy weapon in each hand!
Great video! Just an honourable mention for The Specialists - a HL1 mod which put alot of thought into dual-weapon reload methods including (the most Matrix-esque of them all) discarding the firearms when out of bullets!
Man, seeing Jonathan Ferguson, the Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at Royal Armories Museum which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons throughout history, dual wield weapons like a badass is amazing.
Arguably the most "realistic" way to dual-wield would be to take inspiration from the way flintlock-era pistols were used: Don't bother firing both guns at once; use one gun on its own, until it's empty, then switch hands. Of course, it's still more practical to simply carry a rifle or SMG, since you can often get those with larger magazines and would no longer need to worry about fumbling your guns midway through a firefight, but then you wouldn't be dual-wielding.
I've dual-wielded airsoft pistols in the past (USP compact in the left, Hi-Capa in the right, being right-handed). It is quite intimidating for suppressive fire, but I was mostly using the off-hand one for noise and secondary mag if the main hand gun ran dry in the middle of the action.
in pavlov i sometimes do, but usually with the double barrel sawn off shotgun. the close range required for that wepon means you are bound to hit something, and in vr you can actually hold the guns very close to each other meaning the almost are one gun with 4 shots
A good movie scene with a character realistically using two pistols at once is the jewel robbery scene (that turns out to be drugs) from The Usual Suspects when the character McManus carefully aims two separate guns at two separate targets and shoots them both at the same time, the so called "Bad Day" scene, as that is the phrase uttered by McManus after the shootout while they flee the scene.
From the video what got me for IRL was the KICK in Jonathan's tests was insane . I can see how it would lend characterization in entertainment -- you'd have to be ridiculously strong to stabilize and highly trained/talented to be able to be accurate. Perfect for a Terminator for example, even more so one with Arnie's frame. For everyone else, if you carried a second pistol, it'd be an extra sidearm to save you a reload in the middle of action, but you'd still wield them one at a time.
Nah he just had terrible form, looked like he had never shot before, or he forgot everything once he had 2 guns instead of 1. cocked gun and elbows out? I challenge hercules to not get gun kick and poor accuracy shooting like that, maybe superman could do it.
I'd imagine that it can be learned to dual wield pistols, when I started playing piano I had much difficulty playing with my left hand and playing with both seemed so unbelievably crazy but as time went on and I learned to mitigate the limitations of my left hand with muscle memory it became easy and natural.
I can't control all my fingers at the same time, but I can drum. And that uses both hands and both feet(double bass pedal) it was so weird using all your limbs in rhythm
With the Terminator it actually makes sense. He's a machine, heck he removed the stocks from his guns in the first movie cause he doesn't need them. Bonus points for being two different types of guns being used at once, an assault rifle and shotgun.
I think the best way to make duel wielding firearms practical would be through the use of powered armor/exoskeleton tech combined with laser sights. You need some way to offset the recoil as well as a way to avoid aiming each gun traditionally.
lasersights! that might be a good idea to try even without the power armor or whatever. if you have laser pointers you can pretty much point and shoot, probably still wont be as good as just aiming especially at long range but for close range it could be a huge benefit...
This is true to a point, but on the other end- dual wielding is a learned and trainable skill, there are people out there who can shoot two pistols at a time as proficient as someone shooting one- thus doing as implied, doubling firepower.
I bet some ye olde French crossbowman grabbed a second right after saying something to the effect of "Hold my beer and watch this" lol another great Episode guys :)
Jonathan looked like he was more concerned with trying not to shoot himself. And that recoil whilst trying to line up two pistols looked like a pain. A nice reminder of how lethal firearms really are.
AA12s arent exactly impressive to dual wield if you know anything about them. Hilariously, if you search up AA12 on Google Kyle holding one is the Second Image.
I had the opportunity to dual wield M16A1 rifles at full auto once, and the muzzle rise made it ridiculous. Rounds quickly went over the berm and so I stopped and tried to look innocent.
Great video! The other thing to remember when watching the movie clip montage at the end - films use blanks which don't shoot anything solid out the end, so have very little recoil - hence why it's possible to dual wield micro uzis in a film without them flying all over the place.
I gotta say, in VR it is so very fun to dual wield. I more use it in a similar way to how pirates of old would use one gun then the other and ditch the extra to reload the last used/go melee.
I dunno, it just seems pointless to me. Well, I guess I see what you’re saying… I sometimes do have a throwaway gun… Like I already have all guns I want/can carry… Especially in games like Surv1v3 where you have realistic limits on how many magazines you can you can carry. So I have a gun in my offhand, giving me an extra mag full of shots, then when it’s empty, I just toss it. So yeah, exactly like pirates 😁 In games where you can have infinite or practically unlimited mags though, it’s just easier and faster to keep your offhand free to reload.
@@a8lg6p One hundred percent agreed. It is really pointless especially in games with unlimited ammo. Given that you're either not using one of the guns or limited to whatever distance you can actually use instinctive aim.
I think "left"" and "right" handed locks on muzzle loaders is specifically for left and right hand carry to get the lock out of the way, allowing for a flatter storage on person. I am professional shooter , ambidextrous, and still would never "duel wield" anything.
I appreciate this has nothing to do with reality (and would only be useful with a truly recoilless weapon with some kind of auto-targeting), but in VR games like Pistol Whipped I have found dual wielding has some merit when fighting multiple enemies but either creating two smaller firing arches for each weapon or by pointing one weapon roughly in the direction of the next enemy before I bring my full attention to it. As a counter: putting one VR controller down and using one hand as a brace is probably more effective overall although it does mean you have to swing the weapon further between shots.
There was a PS2 game called Twin Caliber, which was a 3rd-person, two player, rail shooter where you used both analog sticks to control your arms independently. I don't think I can describe how crazy it was to play or how fun it was in two player. Even though you don't have to worry about aiming vertically, you're still trying to aim the right stick straight ahead and the left stick to the back-left, for example, you just end up spinning them around and pulling both triggers non-stop. The voice acting was so campy and over the top. One player is a sheriff, the other a prisoner and you're dual wielding shotguns, pistols, and rifles against the undead.
Absolutely adore these episodes! Always facinating to hear Jonathans take as a museum curator on videogame stuff like this. Seeing as it was barely touched upon. Will you be covering Gun-Fu/Gunkata in an episode by chance?
In The Matrix there is always this wrong scene where neo dual wields Sa vz. 61 Skorpion Machine Pistols in .32 ACP caliber but while shooting empty 5,56 cases drop at the ground, how they even fit in the magazine ?
Dual Wielding is just plain cool in Movies and Video Games. I love how they showed High Noon (1952) in this Loadout episode, the part where Gary Cooper blasts a Dual-Wielding Lee Van Cleef. High Noon is one of my all time favorite movies and I recommend it heavily! It's one of the greatest Westerns ever made and Movies in general and it's well worth your time! Gary Cooper deservedly won the Best Actor Oscar for the movie. I also love how they showed True Grit (1969), the part where John Wayne gets into a shootout with Robert Duvall's gang while Dual-Wielding a Winchester Rifle in one hand and a pistol in the other hand, even Spin-Flip reloading the Winchester, one of the coolest Guns Akimbo moments in movies. True Grit (1969) is also one of my all time favorites and I recommend it heavily! It's one of the best Westerns ever made and Movies in general and it's well worth your time! John Wayne deservedly won the Best Actor Oscar for the movie.
I think there is some potential in dual wielding weapons, but the way it's usually depicted in media doesn't really make much sense. Typically it's done in a manner that "looks cool", but has no real utility compared to just having a single weapon with maybe a faster fire rate and higher ammo capacity. A normal human being just cannot split their focus in two in a way that allows effective fire from both hands simultaneously. However, using the off-hand weapon for suppressive fire while taking aimed shots with your good hand could actually work reasonably well when faced with multiple enemies. At least it would make infinitely more sense than not properly aiming with either weapon.
This. You've either given it a shot, or have thoroughly analyzed this. Now, I know this isn't a perfect analogy, but I've dual wielded in airsoft game in CQB, and what you said is almost exactly what I did, and it was surprisingly effective. The main difference is that rather than my off hand being specifically for suppression, I also used it to cover a second direction, and should I get the impression that there's a target that way, I swap which pistol I'm focusing on and the other becomes the suppression side of things. A couple things to note are that even though I'm right handed, I was taught to shoot pistols left handed first, and it was years before I started shooting them right handed, so I'm more or less ambidextrous with them at this point. As far as reloads go, they are obviously slower, but given the use of one as a suppressive system, you usually run one empty before the other, which means you have the other to cover yourself at least for some time. I was running leg holsters when I did this, and I put the left handed holster backwards on my right leg and vice versa for the other so the grips faced the direction I was. Basically a leg mounted cross draw, for all intents. What I would do is drop the mag for the empty pistol(slide locked back of course), holster, then grab a fresh mag and slip it in, draw, and drop the slide. If necessary, repeat for the other side. If a target was further away than I was confident I could hit in the situation, I'd just holster one and use the other properly. It mitigated fumbling between the two pistols a fair bit, though I'm not sure I would recommend this with a live gun since you're likely to flag yourself at some point or another and it honestly is a bit awkward. But hey, it was fun, and being able to fire in two directions while basically sprinting in any direction was an interesting experience for all parties involved.
I know it was probably too unknown to be mentioned here, but Killing Room (not Killing Floor, two different franchises) somehow managed to make reloading 2 two-magazine pistols at the same time somewhat plausible. The character ejects all 4 mags, lays the left gun on the side of the right gun so all magazine-wells are facing left, pulls out 4 magazines, sticks them in one after the other, and lets the slides go forward, and is back to being able to fire. For a process that technically involves 4 glock-like weapons being welded together pair-wise that's surprisingly sensible.
Thanks for mentioning Hunt: Showdown! The thing is, because of how realistic it's trying to be, dual wielding is already quite rare. Need accuracy? Just bring one pistol so you can aim properly, or better yet, bring a pistol with a stock and small scope. Need damage? bring a sawn-off shotgun, or better yet, fan the revolver - a technique that needs a free hand.
In the Borderlands franchise, there is only one playable character that can dual wield overall, and only for a limited time before they need to go back to using 1 weapon.
I had a Saturn in the 90s (I know, I know) and I'd dual wield on Virtua Cop from time to time. I was actually worse playing with two guns because it turns out I'm not John Wick.
Dang, I really want to see a side by side of Jonathan trying to fire the pistols akimbo vs just a normal pistol. I'd bet he can fire both quicker and more accurately with just the one.
Not with that form he's not. Gun cocked to the side, elbows out? I'd like to see him trying to fire a normal pistol just to see if he forgot all his shooting training when holding 2 guns, or if he simply has had no time at the range.
I think the power of seeing a character dual wield comes from the fact that you instinctually know it's impractical and would require so much training with a specific set of firearms and even more training with point shooting that it just instantly radiates that a character is almost unnaturally skilled. Not just that they're dangerous, but they know they're dangerous and they've put all the work needed into themselves to get there.
What about laser sights? Wouldn’t that make dual wielding possibly easier. Also I used to nerf a lot when is was little, I usually ran akimbo jolts. They only had one shot and where front loaded so having two was super useful. Especially because I could pick up my enemies’ darts and use them to reload my gun on the move… jolt op.
Somehow I think Jonathan would be a lot more effective with dual wielding if he spent a few months practicing. You can't expect anyone to be good at something on first try. Something as unusual as this would probably take some time to build muscle memory and work out the kinks for. Also, laser pointers.
yeah I can imagine some legendary gunman in the west spent a lot of time practicing as well. like even now some of those cowboy fast shooting competitions or whatever they can do some incredible stuff that no-one would pull off on their first try.
@@zwenkwiel816 The thing with cowboy action matches is they're in a very controlled environment that is much easier to train for. You're basically just practising for speed over anything else. Now try pulling this off in real life with targets shooting back at you, trying to take cover and different targets at different ranges and elevations and all that practise goes out the window.
@@Pyroteq no it doesn't, sure all the fancy stuff isn't really practical irl but you still have years of training handling the thing. All that dexterity and quick target acquisition doesn't just dissappear.. Point I was mainly trying to make is that if these cowboys did shoot akimbo (same time or alternating) then they probably would spend time practicing as well. Whereas Jonathan just picked up two pistols and tried it just once.
Just firing one pistol one-handed in your non-dominant hand requires an incredible amount of practice to do well . . . let alone while you ALSO have a pistol in the OTHER hand. I would wager it'd take hundreds or even thousands of hours at the range to get even remotely good at. Less if you're naturally ambidextrous, I suppose.
I feel like Annie Oakley needed a mention, she aimed 2 pistols independently of each other and could hit things in opposite directions at the same time
The best akimbo reload I've seen in any game comes from the original Killing Floor. The process there involves the player character holstering one gun, bringing up a magazine as the hand returns and completely loading the other gun before holstering it, drawing the empty firearm, bringing up a magazine with the holstering hand, and completely loading the second gun before drawing the pistol that was loaded first. It's a completely plausible way to accomplish the task and so far the only game I've seen attempt to make the animation look more grounded.
Jonathan shot by alternating between the guns after every shot and this is what video games and movies get wrong in general. It was confirmed in Mythbusters that shooting them at the same time greatly increases the accuracy. Props to Max Payne 3 for utilizing this technique
Thank you so much for watching another episode of Loadout!
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Dual Wield pistols aka Akimbo
I love when Johnathan gets to go on the range, I do understand that this may not always be possible but I’d love to see more.
Got to ask Dave, how are the firearms experts and loadout videos gonna be effected by UA-cam new gun rules? I know a lot of guntubers are looking at other platforms off the back of them.
Never, ever, stop inserting Hot Fuzz lines into videos like these. 😄
To be honest, the Terminator being able to dual wield makes sense since he's a machine that can mitigate any of the drawbacks of dual wielding.
and even then he was taking turns with em lol
If a machine is capable of being ambidextrous its very much possible and optimal
The T-101 also carried two different weapons--assault rifle and shotgun--and used them separately, not truly together. It shot one in certain situations and the other in certain situations. A layer of realism and practicality added to the spectacle of Arnold laying waste with two guns.
Also he has aimbot as a built in feature(automated target aquisition)
He can make dozens of ballistic calculations on the fly.
@@leifwulffstephan3725 not really, he has real bad aim, at least for a robot made for killing; you can even see it in a pov shot in the first one during the police station shootout. Robocop on the other hand, now there's some aimbot.
Came for Dualies, stayed for Jonathan Ferguson, the Keeper of firearms and Artillery at Royal Armories Museum at the UK.
... which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history
Sorry just had to
Definitely love his videos. Jonathan always teaches me something I didn't know I wanted to know.
_Royal_
_Armouries_
Mind
@@TheSundayShooter Thanks, mate.
@googlehomemini _Jonathan_
The sight of Jonathan Ferguson, keeper of firearms and artillery in the Royal Armories Museum in the UK, dual-wielding guns is just amazing
Housing thousands of iconic weapons from throughout history
Underrated comment
Spectacular
Only if he worked out lol he could have done way better.
It was sad how bad he was. It is very clear he gets no time to train.
Had they hgad a real shooter on the video they would have been shown how effective dual wielding really is.
I've said before that Jonathan looks like a British Max Payne and here he is dual wielding. I couldn't be happier seeing this.
his british brother: Mac Payne
He looks nothing like max Payne, what are you talking about dude
@@douggaudiosi14 He really does. He looks a ton like Sam Lake, the original Max
I agree, except how did he "look" British? He just looks like a dude to me.
@@rodneycooperjr3223 different countries be givin different results 🤷♂️ you can usually just tell, like you can tell a Swede from an American
I ran a gun range after I got out of the Corps and we had almost 100 different handguns for rentals. I got to shoot all of them and eventually tried dual wielding after hours. I've shot handguns competitively and even with all my practice, akimbo was hilariously hard to do. BUT it still looked and felt awesome.
My dad was really into it but I've done a bit of cowboy action shooting the best way I've found is to keep both up and slightly offset of being where you would hold it if shooting normally one handed and moving it to get your sight picture and just alternate which gun is being aimed and fired.
With single actions its much faster than firing 6 shots and reloading to fire another 6 but still slower compared to how quickly I can take follow up shots normally.
lol i shot my baretta 92 and glock 19 akimbo waste of ammo and useless but fub
@@kungfuchief if its fun it ain't a waste of ammo
Unless you're in war I guess but I sincerely hope you're not
That's not surprising, the eyes move as a unit and one of them is dominant over the other. Normally, the dominant eye will be on the same side as the dominant hand, but I had an uncle that was left handed and right eyed and would do this weird thing of holding the rifle in his dominant hand and look through the sight with his dominant eye. He was a decent enough shot as he did hunt for a number of years, but it seemed a bit risky for any rifle that's got a kick to it.
I’ve done a bit of akimbo target practice as well, and I think it’s more fun to just start blasting than worry about trying to hit anything.
5:52 It's worth noting that Rise of The Triad was another early first person shooter with pistols akimbo, and actually released _the exact same day_ as Marathon. So technically, they're both the first FPS games to feature dual weilding pistols.
huh, that's a really cool piece of trivia. thanks for sharing.
I thought RoTT might've had a claim, thanks!
Personally, that's the first place that I heard the term and I had no idea what it meant. GIven how crazy some of the cheat codes and the like were at the time, that wasn't an unreasonable thing to miss. Especially if you're not surrounded with enthusiasts that are into that sort of thing.
Honestly, the collaboration between GameSpot and the great Mr. Ferguson is one of the best in all of UA-cam history.
Charlie and the boys
I liked the Way Django used his revolvers in tarantinos version. At least in a few scenes he alternates between them instead of actively using them for the same target and rather cover more than one angle at a time only turning his head to the gun he uses instead of moving his arm around. It's still not adviseable I'd say but it makes more sense then holding both infront of you. Atleast it seems smarter xD
if you're ambidextrous it kind of makes sense and with revolvers having 12 instead of 6 rounds might save you from getting shot during a lengthy reload...
As someone who is legitimately ambidextrous I can tell you that alternating hands while doing something is very possible the problem with using both hands simultaneously is mentally processing what you're doing but alternating shooting hands isn't what this video is talking about
They call that a "New York Reload."
Lara Croft does that in games because of autoaim when there's multiple targets around, but first person shooters have the problem of very narrow PoV and no peripheral vision so we're stuck with guns pointed forward there.
@@KasumiRINA you could use a specific keybind for switching between the guns and always switch to the second one as soon as the first is dry. but that doesn't makie sence in a game that only has akimbo as a fun feature to look cool and thus it's never been done to my knowledge. obv you could shoot in different directions but that way you could balance it by still having double the guns but if you ever want to aim them right you have to switch between them to shoot and aim one at a time. the need for the switching via manual command input would also require a little bit more skill than without it and as such atleast contribute a small bit to balance
but that's just me rambling
Something about Jonathan's absolutely deadpan 'hitting no-one' sent me into a laughing fit. Love this series
it seems like dual wielding would be more suited to someone comfortable with "shooting from the hip", since it seems like the problems jonathan was having were centered around trying to make accurate target shots with each hand.
Well, there is definitely something called 'point shooting', where you don't really use the iron sights on the gun itself to hit things at close ranges. However, you'll always be shooting less accurately than someone using iron sights (or a red dot) and both hands to control the recoil of one handgun. Especially in follow up shots.
The main situation where I can see it being useful is in close quarters when going through doors that allows you to shoot things on both sides based on sight and sound. Obviously, that's an incredibly specific situation that would also require somebody to be ambidextrous or at least decent enough in their off hand to manage it. They would also need to be good at locating things by sound, which is definitely possible, but hard to get right.
@@SmallSpoonBrigade reminds me of some missions in Hotline Miami 2 where one character dual wields machine pistols.
Pretty handy (no pun intended) when enemies come from both sides of the halway.
Yeah, there's a western style pistol shooter on here that's pretty accurate out to several dozen feet shooting from the hip.
@@ethinos2719 Regarding point shooting, that was my thought. I also noticed Johnathan shook a little while shooting and it seemed like he had a bit of a flinch. If this is true, he obviously won't shoot well to begin with. Also, shooting off handed is a skill that requires practice.
I know a guy who regularly carries two airsoft pistols into "combat". And when I asked him how he does it he had some interesting points to make. First of, if he's in a shootout and a pistol runs out, he will simply holster it and put his other hand on the other pistol until there is a lull in the fight where he can reload the second pistol. When both are in use he mostly uses them one at the time simply to extend his capacity. But if there are multiple angles of defense, then he will often keep them pointed in different directions since it is faster to turn his head then to turn his head then it is to move a gun. This has occasionally also led to him blindly firing in a direction to suppress someone while he deals with someone else with the pistol he's focusing on. Which he fully admits mostly leads to the one he's trying to suppress simply shooting him. Mostly though, it has worked for him. He says the benefit is minimal, and the ease of having a free hand to reloading with is substantial. But while it is higher effort, it does provide some benefit. That said, he has also stated that if he was to go into actual combat, then he would generally only use one pistol at the time.
I love how developers and players alike agree that reloading akimbo doesn't make any sense, we just have it because it looks cool
You'd probably have to holster at least one and then draw/reholster to reload the second. It'd basically take 3x longer.
There are some that are totally possible like killing floor 2 most of the normal pistols have a physically possible reload if your hand is big enough you'd probably damage the slide though.
The cowboy revolver and .44 mag would be impossible to do realistically though.
It works in VR it just takes more time but not much.
Counterstrike did it in 1.6 with the dual Berettas and that looked fairly realistic, but pointless, because it took too long anyway
@@jacobstaten2366 Put both weapons on one hand and take 2 magazines on the other shoving both at the same time to both guns maybe
I can’t remember where I read this, but someone said that many if not most historically recorded instances of people dual wielding pistols are misinterpretations of people carrying multiple pistols in order to perform whats often called a New York reload, shooting a gun until it’s empty than dropping or reholstering it and draw a fresh gun. This especially common before the advent of easy to reload autoloading pistols, and is often evidenced by the fact what people often wore a pair of guns in strong side and crossdraw holsters, which would be awkward to drop from with your non-dominant hand.
An ambidextrous character would be able to adapt the principle of the New York Reload to more traditional dual wielding with a gun in each hand; just shoot one dry and seamlessly switch to the other, Wild Bill Hickock style, no holstering necessary. (Optional bonus: Wick Flick to get rid of the spent magazine of the empty gun while still shooting the other gun.)
Complements to Jonathan for trying! He is THE man after all!
He is Gun Dr. after all
from what I've heard, he's also the keeper of firearms and artillery at the Royal Armories Museum in the UK.
"... By giving it a deadly dance partner"
Whoever does the writing for these episodes is amazing
Jonathon Furgason is officially one of the people I would buy dinner for just to have a nice chat with. He's knowledgeable but more importantly, he seems like a genuinely nice guy.
5:41 I like the timing with the footage and voice over when he says “partner”
would have love to watch Jonathan Ferguson try to reload
Following the example set by the Matrix, the most obvious tactic would be dual New York reloads. Proper reloads either need both hands or lots of time.
@@derekp2674 New York reloads?
@@ink3487 A New York reload is where you draw another gun instead of reloading your first gun. Think Reaper from Overwatch.
Yes, that's why this concept is unreal
He's still trying to figure out who loaded them for him
I've noticed in those old westerns, and the clip they showed here matched, they're not usually blasting away with both pistols at once. They fire one, bring the other in line with their eyes to aim, fire that, and cycle. Which is also what Mando does in the Mandalorian. Which makes sense as it's an old western in space.
It's probably best, in the real world, to just keep using the one pistol until it's out and switch. But still, it's a compromise and a bit more realistic than firing both from the hip.
A shame you guys didn't feature Bayonetta as an example of a video game character who famously dual wields but even goes further as to have guns strapped to her ankles.
I figure they didn't because Bayo runs on magic and has her own insane fighting style. I am surprised there wasn't even a brief clip of Dante from DMC, though
It's a Dual Wielding video, Quad Wielding is next month
Do not search legs akimbo if under-18.
Or Beyond The Grave from Gungrave -series
They were going to but Jonathan needed more practice walking and shooting in heels
Great video as always! I only wish that they mentioned Hitman: Codename 47 and how you can secretly get akimbo pistols by holding down "ctrl" as you select pistols from the inventory! I found out about akimbo pistols by picking up a pistol from the ground with one already drawn. He then switches the drawn pistol to his left hand and picks up the new one with his right hand. Insane detail that I think most people miss
I just realised that reasons why akimbo weapons are in the games/movies/etc are same reasons why Dante from Devil May Cry dual wields any ranged weapon.
1 - To show how cool Dante is
2 - To maximise the effects and firepower (only type of power that Vergil overlooks) in every battle
3 - Because he is half-human, half-demon, he can technically deal with any recoil theese weapons have: from his iconic pistols to automatic rocket launchers
Call of Juarez Gunslinger had a very good implementation for akimbo dual wielding (with option set to akimbo so you can use left and right mouse buttons for shooting and LeftAlt key for zooming).
The initial reload animation was the best (the one before upgrading the reload from the skill tree).
A guy called Face Full Of Eyes did a great video on handedness in games and included a whole (massive) segment on dual wielding. I never thought I’d sit through a ~2h video on handedness but here we are!
The most realistic and authentic dual-wielding experience I've ever gotten in a game surprisingly came from playing Call of Duty Black Ops on the hardest difficulty.
It was the "The Numbers"-mission (rooftops), where you start off with dual-wielded CZ-75's and they were so inaccurate that the only way to not die was to rush an enemy and mag-dump them and steal a weapon that could be properly wielded.
I'd like to see a video about "Using guns to shoot things other than bad guys to defeat enemies." Just like how the movie Shoot 'em Up used the Max Payne trope but made the main character use his guns on the environment to take out baddies instead.
7:30 accuracy by volume of fire is a term I like to use and didn't expect to hear. So I am pleasantly surprised
Thank you for covering the most iconic thing in action media!
I never thought I'll see Jonathan Ferguson duel wielding pistols
Does anyone else want this guy in dr who as some kind of villain? Even being himself would be a great character.
Jonathan radiates enthusiasm and delight, no way would he be suitable for the role of a villain
He should be the next "Q" in 007
@@michael2636 ^ This, I seconded.
@Michael agreed, if folks suggest Ian from forgotten weapons should cameo in a John Wick movie only fair we push Jonathan to make a Bond cameo.
Can’t believe you didn’t mention Salvador from borderlands 2. He could use two of any gun, including rocket launchers and heavy machine guns in any combination.
How about dual wielding pistols with a laser attached to them? It surely can be easier, since the laser sort of guides you, and you don't need to aim down sights as much
It would help with accuracy a bit, but wouldn't affect the increase in recoil recovery.
Also, imagine if one laser dot was on the target and one was off onto a bystander. You couldn't risk firing either pistol (unless you got two laser sights with different colored beams 😄)
Laser attachment does help immensely if used with training and muscle memory. With lasers sighted in, I could decide to ignore my iron sight alignment, which cost Jonathan a lot of time between each round fired. He also didn't lock his elbows out, which is pretty standard in one handed shooting training.
You'd still have to be trying to focus on both laser dots at one time. I'd consider that additional concentration to be a detriment when you should probably be more focusing on the threat and your surroundings.
@@ethinos2719 TBH, that can be trained the same way that drummers can learn to keep different time with their left and right hands. But, it seems like a lot of work for marginal benefit and spending the time on other things would probably lead to better results. Either in terms of avoiding those kinds of confrontations or in terms of being able to use the one sidearm more effectively.
@@ethinos2719
What if you emptied one magazine, then used the laser on the second pistol to quickly acquire a sight? It seems the biggest time waster is trying to alternate sight pictures.
This is my favorite series on UA-cam right now. It mixes my love of history and video games. Keep up the great work guys!
The thing I liked best about equilibrium was the idea of shooting style based on the most likely placement of enemies and then cementing those moments into muscle memory with strict training. It added some legitimacy to the whole akimbo thing. It's not just because it looked cool...I mean it was but they just came up with an excuse.
youre speaking of course about 'The Gunkata' or the most lethal form of martial art combat practice ever devised by human minds.
It is just so deliciously over the top you can't not love it!
Probably the best Akimbo reload I've seen came from an animation mod way back in Counter-Strike 1.6.
1) Drop both mags while in each hand.
2) Transfer both pistols to the dominant hand.
3) Insert the mags one at a time.
4) Take the pistols back in each hand.
5) Activate the slide locks.
Probably the way I'd attempt it if I were going to try this for real.
I think the only possible real life application for dual wielding is if you want to randomly send a lot of bullets somewhere and you only have two pistols.
I've always wondered if dual wielding might not be more possible if the guns fired had less or some how no recoil. Or would the idea of dropped accuracy still make it worthless?
@@aliciafraser1835 I mean that's true of all shooting. Shooting one gun at a time would be more effective with less or zero recoil. The accuracy drop would really make it a specialist thing, some people have the rare skill of accurately firing from the hip, but its very uncommon, especially with both hands. The biggest use is to avoid having to reload, thus why it was good back in the golden age of piracy.
With alot of training, being ambidextrous and using it to cover multiple angles in cqc itd make sense. Not much past that
@@TheGrumbliestPuppy That's why in airsoft cqb dual wileding is a great option. (and you have the time and saftey to build fingerpoint shooting aim skills)
I think the best application would be if you need to hit multiple targets at once and at close range. For example if you burst in through a door and there's one guy to the left and another to the right and you need to shoot them at the same time in order to not get shot yourself. Thats about the only use i can think of. People really forget that 2 guns means you can aim in 2 directions...
I was an arcade geek as a kid.
We did not try dual-wielding on Time Crisis because the game also has the pedal mechanic so we would quickly lose our balance.
We did, however, try it on House of the Dead and it was awesome... for about 10 seconds. My shots would only hit if the zombie was right on top of me or if I was shooting a crowd which does not help at all because it was still a crowd with just one zombie fewer.
Needless to say, I'd learned my lesson of not wasting what was then a valuable resource on flights of fancy.
so it wasn't mentioned until the end, but as a TRAINED akimbo wilder, I would stress safety and being a true ambidextrous person, many people I train are not and often will shoot their own hands (with training pistols) when they get overzealous. this applies to swords as well, and the idea of dual wielding anything more than a compact smg is insane, rifles are heavy and long and the thought of even something small is tiring to think of
Very happy to see Marathon featured here. That game had a lot of FPS firsts, including dual-wielding and alt-fire. Marathon 2: Durandal took it even further and let you dual-wield double-barelled shotguns. The reload animation had the player spinning them around like a lever-action rifle, but I remember Durandal himself (the rampant AI) saying that we shouldn't try to understand the reload system as our tiny human brain couldn't comprehend it.
Mythbusters also did an episode on this. They found it was effective only when firing at two targets on opposite sides of the body, so the guns weren't interfering with each other. Of course, to replicate this in a field you would need your targets to be standing perfectly still and not firing back.
So more less scenario mentioned here that someone shot 4 people in close quarters.
Also problem with Akimbo is that you cannot use your other hand to support your main weapon. So dual wielding even if shooting from one makes you much less accurate. Shooting from two 2-handed weponas (even if these are SMGs) is a nonsence. Again - probably only useful to flood a room with bullets without knowing where foes are standing exactly.
Standing perfectly still, not firing back, and close enough to hit without even looking directly at them.
So it might work in the Bat Masterson scenario where you've just burst into a crowded room full of people who were not expecting you, so pretty much no matter where you shoot, you hit someone.
@@ajm5007 indeed, the only scenario I can think of where it's actually potentially beneficial is if there's many guys directly in front of you, closeup, and you need the extra rounds because of their numbers. if you CANT miss, every extra shot is good.
Having played a few TTRPGs I will say the benefit of having two guns, specially pistols, is that it doubled my magazine and I really appreciated when my friend wanted to, making sure he took ambidextrous, so that he could fire them one at a time expanding how many shots he could have. I'm also always reminded of that scene from NCIS where Ziva, the Mossad assassin, was guarding a person and there were two doors into the small room and so she took out both pistols so she could cover both.
Either way it always made more sense to me to do it like the pirates and shoot one gun well and then pull out the other one and shoot it well negating that pesky reload.
I’ve been trying to think of ANY time in human history that akimbo would be a superior tactical choice, and I think I got one. In a standoff during an attempted mutiny, a captain wielding two handfuls of duck’s foot pistols would double his intimidation factor. I’m kind of amazed they never used that in Pirates of the Caribbean, on reflection. Would have been a great visual gag. Other than that, I got nothing.
The only situation I can think of would be covering fire - if you don't have an automatic to hand, sheer volume of bullets would help to keep opponents from emerging and taking aim. But again, you're relying on intimidation as much as anything else, and for it to work you would need to have spent time at the range specifically practicing that style. The 'no aim, just fire' approach might suffice to pin down the enemy while your own squad moved into a more advantageous position.
One of the most comically effective bits of dual wielding was real time mode in the rough diamond that was xcom: apocalypse. The game let you equip in both hands for grenades etc, but the only penalty in real time mode was a small accuracy buff - more than worth it for agents hefting a giant alien energy weapon in each hand!
Great video! Just an honourable mention for The Specialists - a HL1 mod which put alot of thought into dual-weapon reload methods including (the most Matrix-esque of them all) discarding the firearms when out of bullets!
Man, seeing Jonathan Ferguson, the Keeper of Firearms and Artillery at Royal Armories Museum which houses a collection of thousands of iconic weapons throughout history, dual wield weapons like a badass is amazing.
Arguably the most "realistic" way to dual-wield would be to take inspiration from the way flintlock-era pistols were used: Don't bother firing both guns at once; use one gun on its own, until it's empty, then switch hands.
Of course, it's still more practical to simply carry a rifle or SMG, since you can often get those with larger magazines and would no longer need to worry about fumbling your guns midway through a firefight, but then you wouldn't be dual-wielding.
I've dual-wielded airsoft pistols in the past (USP compact in the left, Hi-Capa in the right, being right-handed). It is quite intimidating for suppressive fire, but I was mostly using the off-hand one for noise and secondary mag if the main hand gun ran dry in the middle of the action.
When I think of dual wielding I just think of having 2 to 6 holsters(maybe 8 if you have room) and just switching guns to keep shooting
missed the opportunity to use a clip of Ian dual wielding Stechkins. "I didn't hit anything. I hit everything!"
Tldr for the topic is at 2:31 - "Which hurt nobody" xD
in pavlov i sometimes do, but usually with the double barrel sawn off shotgun.
the close range required for that wepon means you are bound to hit something, and in vr you can actually hold the guns very close to each other meaning the almost are one gun with 4 shots
John Woo famous shootout hit movie's ever made including A Better Tomorrow & Hard Target
Great video thanks!! I’ve always loved that Equilibrium’s gunplay somehow makes The Matrix’s look grounded.
The expert looked so annoyed when firing from both hands. You could almost read his mind - “this is so absurd!”
He must have lost his sense of wonder and creativity
A good movie scene with a character realistically using two pistols at once is the jewel robbery scene (that turns out to be drugs) from The Usual Suspects when the character McManus carefully aims two separate guns at two separate targets and shoots them both at the same time, the so called "Bad Day" scene, as that is the phrase uttered by McManus after the shootout while they flee the scene.
That Hot Fuzz reference Jonathan made near the end caught me right off guard 😂
Loved the little nod to Grosse Pointe Blank in the intro, that movie has some great and hilarious akimbo moments from Martin.
From the video what got me for IRL was the KICK in Jonathan's tests was insane . I can see how it would lend characterization in entertainment -- you'd have to be ridiculously strong to stabilize and highly trained/talented to be able to be accurate. Perfect for a Terminator for example, even more so one with Arnie's frame. For everyone else, if you carried a second pistol, it'd be an extra sidearm to save you a reload in the middle of action, but you'd still wield them one at a time.
Nah he just had terrible form, looked like he had never shot before, or he forgot everything once he had 2 guns instead of 1.
cocked gun and elbows out? I challenge hercules to not get gun kick and poor accuracy shooting like that, maybe superman could do it.
@@mzy10511 He mentioned that he couldn't lock his elbows properly and that he was trying to aim, which was the hardest part.
I'd imagine that it can be learned to dual wield pistols, when I started playing piano I had much difficulty playing with my left hand and playing with both seemed so unbelievably crazy but as time went on and I learned to mitigate the limitations of my left hand with muscle memory it became easy and natural.
I can't control all my fingers at the same time, but I can drum. And that uses both hands and both feet(double bass pedal) it was so weird using all your limbs in rhythm
With the Terminator it actually makes sense. He's a machine, heck he removed the stocks from his guns in the first movie cause he doesn't need them. Bonus points for being two different types of guns being used at once, an assault rifle and shotgun.
Now we need to see Jonathan trying to reload those two pistols.
I think the best way to make duel wielding firearms practical would be through the use of powered armor/exoskeleton tech combined with laser sights. You need some way to offset the recoil as well as a way to avoid aiming each gun traditionally.
lasersights! that might be a good idea to try even without the power armor or whatever. if you have laser pointers you can pretty much point and shoot, probably still wont be as good as just aiming especially at long range but for close range it could be a huge benefit...
Unfortunatly the realities of military budgets prevents us from haveing armies of iron men with miniguns strapped to both arms.
This is true to a point, but on the other end- dual wielding is a learned and trainable skill, there are people out there who can shoot two pistols at a time as proficient as someone shooting one- thus doing as implied, doubling firepower.
I bet some ye olde French crossbowman grabbed a second right after saying something to the effect of "Hold my beer and watch this" lol
another great Episode guys :)
Jonathan looked like he was more concerned with trying not to shoot himself. And that recoil whilst trying to line up two pistols looked like a pain. A nice reminder of how lethal firearms really are.
Man the Russian badger clip where you risk popping your arms out when cocking could have fit here along with FPSRussian dual wielding AA12 shotguns
AA12s arent exactly impressive to dual wield if you know anything about them. Hilariously, if you search up AA12 on Google Kyle holding one is the Second Image.
I had the opportunity to dual wield M16A1 rifles at full auto once, and the muzzle rise made it ridiculous. Rounds quickly went over the berm and so I stopped and tried to look innocent.
😭😭😭😭
Make a brace that braces them with your chest partially
Great video! The other thing to remember when watching the movie clip montage at the end - films use blanks which don't shoot anything solid out the end, so have very little recoil - hence why it's possible to dual wield micro uzis in a film without them flying all over the place.
Something about seeing Johnathan dual wielding pistols just... Yes.
Great episode!
I think ill try some akimbo too when i get the chance.
I gotta say, in VR it is so very fun to dual wield. I more use it in a similar way to how pirates of old would use one gun then the other and ditch the extra to reload the last used/go melee.
I dunno, it just seems pointless to me. Well, I guess I see what you’re saying… I sometimes do have a throwaway gun… Like I already have all guns I want/can carry… Especially in games like Surv1v3 where you have realistic limits on how many magazines you can you can carry. So I have a gun in my offhand, giving me an extra mag full of shots, then when it’s empty, I just toss it. So yeah, exactly like pirates 😁 In games where you can have infinite or practically unlimited mags though, it’s just easier and faster to keep your offhand free to reload.
@@a8lg6p One hundred percent agreed. It is really pointless especially in games with unlimited ammo. Given that you're either not using one of the guns or limited to whatever distance you can actually use instinctive aim.
Always a better day when a new of loadout comes out
Recently saw a video of someone recoiling one hand infront of the barrel of his second pistol. Thats a finger gone.
I think "left"" and "right" handed locks on muzzle loaders is specifically for left and right hand carry to get the lock out of the way, allowing for a flatter storage on person. I am professional shooter , ambidextrous, and still would never "duel wield" anything.
I appreciate this has nothing to do with reality (and would only be useful with a truly recoilless weapon with some kind of auto-targeting), but in VR games like Pistol Whipped I have found dual wielding has some merit when fighting multiple enemies but either creating two smaller firing arches for each weapon or by pointing one weapon roughly in the direction of the next enemy before I bring my full attention to it.
As a counter: putting one VR controller down and using one hand as a brace is probably more effective overall although it does mean you have to swing the weapon further between shots.
In VR you've got no recoil. So maybe some SF games with laser or similar pistols it might work similar. Not with weapons similar to real world ones.
It's definitely a lot more feasible with weapons that are very lightweight and have zero recoil. Dual-wielding laser pointers is cake.
There was a PS2 game called Twin Caliber, which was a 3rd-person, two player, rail shooter where you used both analog sticks to control your arms independently. I don't think I can describe how crazy it was to play or how fun it was in two player. Even though you don't have to worry about aiming vertically, you're still trying to aim the right stick straight ahead and the left stick to the back-left, for example, you just end up spinning them around and pulling both triggers non-stop.
The voice acting was so campy and over the top. One player is a sheriff, the other a prisoner and you're dual wielding shotguns, pistols, and rifles against the undead.
Great vid mate
I agree
Absolutely adore these episodes! Always facinating to hear Jonathans take as a museum curator on videogame stuff like this.
Seeing as it was barely touched upon. Will you be covering Gun-Fu/Gunkata in an episode by chance?
In The Matrix there is always this wrong scene where neo dual wields Sa vz. 61 Skorpion Machine Pistols in .32 ACP caliber but while shooting empty 5,56 cases drop at the ground, how they even fit in the magazine ?
Dual Wielding is just plain cool in Movies and Video Games.
I love how they showed High Noon (1952) in this Loadout episode, the part where Gary Cooper blasts a Dual-Wielding Lee Van Cleef. High Noon is one of my all time favorite movies and I recommend it heavily! It's one of the greatest Westerns ever made and Movies in general and it's well worth your time! Gary Cooper deservedly won the Best Actor Oscar for the movie.
I also love how they showed True Grit (1969), the part where John Wayne gets into a shootout with Robert Duvall's gang while Dual-Wielding a Winchester Rifle in one hand and a pistol in the other hand, even Spin-Flip reloading the Winchester, one of the coolest Guns Akimbo moments in movies. True Grit (1969) is also one of my all time favorites and I recommend it heavily! It's one of the best Westerns ever made and Movies in general and it's well worth your time! John Wayne deservedly won the Best Actor Oscar for the movie.
I think there is some potential in dual wielding weapons, but the way it's usually depicted in media doesn't really make much sense. Typically it's done in a manner that "looks cool", but has no real utility compared to just having a single weapon with maybe a faster fire rate and higher ammo capacity.
A normal human being just cannot split their focus in two in a way that allows effective fire from both hands simultaneously. However, using the off-hand weapon for suppressive fire while taking aimed shots with your good hand could actually work reasonably well when faced with multiple enemies. At least it would make infinitely more sense than not properly aiming with either weapon.
This. You've either given it a shot, or have thoroughly analyzed this.
Now, I know this isn't a perfect analogy, but I've dual wielded in airsoft game in CQB, and what you said is almost exactly what I did, and it was surprisingly effective. The main difference is that rather than my off hand being specifically for suppression, I also used it to cover a second direction, and should I get the impression that there's a target that way, I swap which pistol I'm focusing on and the other becomes the suppression side of things.
A couple things to note are that even though I'm right handed, I was taught to shoot pistols left handed first, and it was years before I started shooting them right handed, so I'm more or less ambidextrous with them at this point. As far as reloads go, they are obviously slower, but given the use of one as a suppressive system, you usually run one empty before the other, which means you have the other to cover yourself at least for some time. I was running leg holsters when I did this, and I put the left handed holster backwards on my right leg and vice versa for the other so the grips faced the direction I was. Basically a leg mounted cross draw, for all intents. What I would do is drop the mag for the empty pistol(slide locked back of course), holster, then grab a fresh mag and slip it in, draw, and drop the slide. If necessary, repeat for the other side. If a target was further away than I was confident I could hit in the situation, I'd just holster one and use the other properly. It mitigated fumbling between the two pistols a fair bit, though I'm not sure I would recommend this with a live gun since you're likely to flag yourself at some point or another and it honestly is a bit awkward.
But hey, it was fun, and being able to fire in two directions while basically sprinting in any direction was an interesting experience for all parties involved.
I know it was probably too unknown to be mentioned here, but Killing Room (not Killing Floor, two different franchises) somehow managed to make reloading 2 two-magazine pistols at the same time somewhat plausible. The character ejects all 4 mags, lays the left gun on the side of the right gun so all magazine-wells are facing left, pulls out 4 magazines, sticks them in one after the other, and lets the slides go forward, and is back to being able to fire. For a process that technically involves 4 glock-like weapons being welded together pair-wise that's surprisingly sensible.
John should have tried akimbo smgs and shotguns for the demonstration
"I want to stress that no one attempts this themselves,"
Me having done it literally days ago: "okay"
Feels like John Woo should've gotten referenced; or did I just miss that part?
Hard Boiled at 5:14
Thanks for mentioning Hunt: Showdown!
The thing is, because of how realistic it's trying to be, dual wielding is already quite rare.
Need accuracy? Just bring one pistol so you can aim properly, or better yet, bring a pistol with a stock and small scope. Need damage? bring a sawn-off shotgun, or better yet, fan the revolver - a technique that needs a free hand.
Okay Jon has to be in a Jon Wick movie now
In the Borderlands franchise, there is only one playable character that can dual wield overall, and only for a limited time before they need to go back to using 1 weapon.
I had a Saturn in the 90s (I know, I know) and I'd dual wield on Virtua Cop from time to time. I was actually worse playing with two guns because it turns out I'm not John Wick.
Do not feel ashamed, the Sega Saturn is awesome, even if a lot of good titles for it never came out in the west.
Very well researched and lots of references and clips, well done!
Dang, I really want to see a side by side of Jonathan trying to fire the pistols akimbo vs just a normal pistol. I'd bet he can fire both quicker and more accurately with just the one.
Not with that form he's not. Gun cocked to the side, elbows out? I'd like to see him trying to fire a normal pistol just to see if he forgot all his shooting training when holding 2 guns, or if he simply has had no time at the range.
I think the power of seeing a character dual wield comes from the fact that you instinctually know it's impractical and would require so much training with a specific set of firearms and even more training with point shooting that it just instantly radiates that a character is almost unnaturally skilled. Not just that they're dangerous, but they know they're dangerous and they've put all the work needed into themselves to get there.
What about laser sights? Wouldn’t that make dual wielding possibly easier. Also I used to nerf a lot when is was little, I usually ran akimbo jolts. They only had one shot and where front loaded so having two was super useful. Especially because I could pick up my enemies’ darts and use them to reload my gun on the move… jolt op.
12:25 Now Jonathan looks really badass!:)
Also can be nice reload both of his guns to showing how complicated can be.
Somehow I think Jonathan would be a lot more effective with dual wielding if he spent a few months practicing. You can't expect anyone to be good at something on first try. Something as unusual as this would probably take some time to build muscle memory and work out the kinks for. Also, laser pointers.
yeah I can imagine some legendary gunman in the west spent a lot of time practicing as well. like even now some of those cowboy fast shooting competitions or whatever they can do some incredible stuff that no-one would pull off on their first try.
@@zwenkwiel816 The thing with cowboy action matches is they're in a very controlled environment that is much easier to train for. You're basically just practising for speed over anything else. Now try pulling this off in real life with targets shooting back at you, trying to take cover and different targets at different ranges and elevations and all that practise goes out the window.
He probably would, but if he applied the same amount of time and training focus to firing a single pistol, he'd be EVEN MORE effective.
@@Pyroteq no it doesn't, sure all the fancy stuff isn't really practical irl but you still have years of training handling the thing. All that dexterity and quick target acquisition doesn't just dissappear..
Point I was mainly trying to make is that if these cowboys did shoot akimbo (same time or alternating) then they probably would spend time practicing as well. Whereas Jonathan just picked up two pistols and tried it just once.
Just firing one pistol one-handed in your non-dominant hand requires an incredible amount of practice to do well . . . let alone while you ALSO have a pistol in the OTHER hand. I would wager it'd take hundreds or even thousands of hours at the range to get even remotely good at. Less if you're naturally ambidextrous, I suppose.
This is the first time ive heard anyone talk about time crisis II!! its still one of my fav games ever
I feel like Annie Oakley needed a mention, she aimed 2 pistols independently of each other and could hit things in opposite directions at the same time
The best akimbo reload I've seen in any game comes from the original Killing Floor. The process there involves the player character holstering one gun, bringing up a magazine as the hand returns and completely loading the other gun before holstering it, drawing the empty firearm, bringing up a magazine with the holstering hand, and completely loading the second gun before drawing the pistol that was loaded first. It's a completely plausible way to accomplish the task and so far the only game I've seen attempt to make the animation look more grounded.
Is duel wielding practical: no. Is it fun: absolutely
It’s practical until you have to reload lol
@@kennypowers1945 which does take about twice as long if you have 2 guns....
Jonathan shot by alternating between the guns after every shot and this is what video games and movies get wrong in general. It was confirmed in Mythbusters that shooting them at the same time greatly increases the accuracy. Props to Max Payne 3 for utilizing this technique
Very cool