Also for those wondering, in these benchmarks we left spectre and meltdown updates all on, you can turn them off for an additional bump in performance. Though I assume LTT would have left them on.
LInus was using a cheap Chinese motherboard from Aliexpress. He talked about not having sleep function as well. A lot of those motherboards have problems. #X58PROBLEMS
@@zeroandplanb4life one machine is a Dell 780 and I have 2 HP DC7900 CMT ... I was wondering about putting in different processors but it hardly seems worth spending any money at all on such ancient machines. They're all from the junk pile except I did buy an NVidia Quadro P400 at a decent price which is in one of the HP, though it should probably be in the Dell which has DDR3 memory rather than DDR2 and a 3.2GHz C2D.
I use an X5675 in a game server, upgraded an old Dell workstation that I got for free to 6C/12T and 24 GB of RAM for $70. It works beautifully. Great video Brian!
I built a i7-950 overclocked to 4.2ghz on a asus workstation board with 24gig triple channel memory and a gtx 1050ti scc so far its played everything my exes son has thrown at it on his steam account still spanks console so long as your not trying to push 4k on it
Thanks for doing this Bryan! I was one of the people who immediately thought of you and sent you and email about their video. I'm very happy to see I wasn't the only one who felt something was off and I'm baffled by the differences in results!
Keep up the great content! Still running an X58 setup as my primary rig. ASUS P6X58d MB w/ x5660 @ 4.2ghz, 24gb ddr3 @1600mhz, and an EVGA gtx 1060 6gb. Sure it may not be the fastest pc out there but it's still a solid build.
I’ve been using x58 since about a month from your first posting about the benefits of it - $1200 (CDN) bought me x2 processors, cases, new RAM, motherboards and hardware, and x2 rx580s. Still going strong with both systems, and your tips have saved me a tonne of money and time. Keep up the great work!
Fascinating. I've still been having exceptional results with S2011 Xeon Hexes, the 1650/60, which both OC quite well. Good to hear X58 is still purring along as a nice option also for basically pennies.
I personally run the e5-2689 still and its pretty good even tho my board is limiting ram to dual channel only. And max ram speed it 1600mhz but my 5€ 16gb 2x8gb kit is 1066mhz stock and 1333mhz max oc
I'm also a huge fan of 2011 chips. I build PCs as a side hustle (inspired by Tech Yes of course), and the value is better than X58 in my opinion. The boards are a bit more expensive ($60 locally or $65-$70 for a Chinese board), but you get access to modern instruction sets and higher core counts. My CPUs of choice are the 2670 (under $10 for an 8 core), 2689 ($10-$15 for a powerhouse), or the 1620 ($10-$15 for a higher clock speed 4c8t)
@@JDStickland Honestly how tech yes said if you look localy you could find x58 boards fpr pretty good prices. I got a rampage 2 extreme, 16gb ddr3 8+4×2 and X 5570 for 100€, which i replaced with a X5690 which i found for 20€.
here in japan is raining x58 boards ...i got 6 already ...and i avoid msi boards (some boards dont support xeon cpu s) !! also i got a problem with a gigabyte board ( ex58 ds4 ) ...after i got a stable oc the board switch off and now only gives a led signal and turn off !!??!!??
some games wont even launch on that cpu and the number is quickly growing cause its missing AVX instructions now if your CPU doesnt support AVX-2 now some new games wont launch, the lowest generation cpu you would want to even use nowadays is 4th gen xeon or i7
@@kyles8524 thankfully all the games I play (beamng drive, doom eternal, red dead redemption 2, wreck fest), and many more play with no issues, I have a 10th gen Intel rig but I like seeing these older rigs get used,
@@kyles8524 I had to upgrade from my old x58 rig pretty much specifically because I got a vr headset and even entry level vr (like an WMR headset) needs AVX support.
I've been using X58 (X5650, ASUS P6T SE with 48gb DDR3) for about a decade as my daily driver and not planning to change it for at least five more years. :)
LTT is too focused on current hardware since it gets the most views. They don't really know how to effectively use older hardware, it's a real bummer. Just look at X79 or X99 for example
@@farawaythrower how is that a surprise? Do you think really old tech would be mainstream, especially when it doesn't make sense to jump through hoops buying and checking comparability of old stuff compared to new
@@samgoff5289 when I was buying x58 it was like 5 times cheaper than "mainstream" new solution for the similar performance xD so yeah let people without knowledge and will to tweak your setup buy x times more expensive hardware when I will get some old xeons into my setup for dirt cheap and laugh at them
I feel like the lack of AVX is the main reason i would usually not recommend these at this point. You can get a sandy bridge x79 for such a small amount more that even a tight budget could cough up the extra few dollars. That said, i can't see how they botched their results this badly without questioning it. They should know the IPC of the architecture and have a rough estimate of what it could do. And the lack of gains from OC should have been an obvious red flag as well that something was wrong with the test system.
I can tell you from my experience the W3670 is slower and it is right cause the bus speed of the w3670 is only 4.8 GT/s vs the x5670 has a bus speed of 6.4 GT/s. The W series of the x58 series Xeon's have a slower bus speed than the X series do themselves. You compare a W3520 (What I have) and the X5670 (I also have) the bus speed difference is still 1.6 GT/s. Why in the videos the w3670 is correct in slow performance.
Bought into x58 with an i7 920 when it came out, still got the same setup but just with a 6 core overclocked Xeon now. Amazing value for money! Only downside is no AVX.
The same thing applies to Motherboards that come with 4 RAM slots as well it is more difficult to overclock 4 sticks of RAM vs 2 sticks. Also with my 4790k Z97 setup I had to overvolt the ram to 1.65V when I added an additional 16GB of RAM to get the system to 32GB in order for Windows to be stable or I would get BSOD after Windows loads due to the extra strain of the memory controller. Also leave to the x58 expert to get more accurate benchmarks with them 1st gen 6/12t Xeons.
@@cajvserlis1603 I went and searched for other DDR3 kits that have an overvolted rating on their sticker online and it said some kits were sold with a rating of 1.65V and that is how I did it.
Thanks for following up on LTT's video! X58 has it's flaws. Such as lower IPC and lack of AVX instruction sets (lack of AVX2 can be significant if you want to experiment with Yuzu). Usually, it's better to get something a little better if you have the budget, but if you're on a super tight on a budget - from what I understand - X58 can still have a great value proposition. It also depends on what games you play. IPC and single core performance can be really important if anyone is interested in higher end emulation such as CEMU. Dolphin is pretty optimized nowdays, but it may have some small hiccups on X58 on some edge-case scenarios. About half a decade ago, I remember building a cheap E8600 build for my brother, and he could play Project M netplay with that build. I'd love to see a breakdown by TechYesCity on a comparison with other budget Xeon platforms like X79 and X99. 1151 Mutants are always fun to look at, but the value proposition of higher end mutants looks to have gone away now that Alder Lake is here.
That would be a good breakdown, although I myself don't need to see it because my 2 running systems are both x99 (one dual CPU server and the other being a 6950x gaming system) and my other 2 unused systems are x58 and x99 too. But x79 I'd have no clue and perhaps x299 could be included but as everyone in the know probably understands that THAT isn't a good value proposition. At least until the value drops to the ground like the others did. HEDT builds are just. Mint. When they come to longevity. Triple channel memory for x58, quad channel for above. Can be pretty comparable to current Gen capabilities.
I wish LTT might adress this, maybe they can reach out to you if they have trouble fixing. Or they send you the old chips they tested and do a collab with you. :)
Tbh, I think too what people need to consider when looking at the benchmarks is different system builds with different motherboard/ram/cpu combos and bios revisions can dramatically alter the results and stability so it important to look at various sites, as always, when considering a pc build.
Not surprised LTT got it wrong; due to their being so influential there's now a lot of people who have the wrong idea about X58. In general, using 3-channel RAM on X58, oc'ing will tend to limit RAM speeds to the 1600 to 1800 range. By contrast, P55 can use RAM at least as high as 2133. Higher speeds are possible with X58 using dual channel, but of course this is offset by the loss of a channel. Oc'ing P55 was easier because it doesn't have an IOH or Uncore structure (PCIe lanes go direct to the CPU, whereas with X58 they go via the IOH, which adds latency, hence partly why P55 was usually faster). Re M.2 support, some NVMe drives have their own boot ROM and will thus work ok as a boot drive with X58, such as the Samsung 950 Pro and certain Intel models, while for some mbds (especially ASUS) enthusiasts have created custom BIOS profiles to add NVMe boot support along with other newer features. Also, one can still use NVMe just fine as data drives held in PCIe adapters. What surprises me is why Linus didn't suspect there was anything wrong in the first place, those numbers are clearly way off for what should be CPU-bound situations, and the crashes suggest something else is amiss. Somehow I suspect though that LTT (whoever actually did the testing) is not someone who regularly watches the likes of yourself, Myconst, RandomGamingInHD, Craft Computing, PhilsComputerLab or the many others who do videos about old XEON hw.
Well the writer for the video was Alex Clark, and I am not entirely sure he would be familiar with the intricacies of X58 memory and such. My guess is that they put it together quickly, tried standard procedure (just enable XMP) and got it to apparently working but not properly. Their videos are shot on a tight schedule so what would be a big red flag and initiate troubleshooting - the windows install crash - wasn't investigated much.
I'm using a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R paired with a Xeon X5650@4Ghz, 12Gb of triple channel DDR3@2000mhz and RX470 4Gb as my backup pc. Only issues I had with it were related to making the board to identify all memory modules, it's a bit picky when it comes to ram modules. Otherwise, I had no other issues, be it hardware or windows 10 related. And the system is powered by an ancient Chieftec 500W psu, which has only 6 pins pci-e connectors, while my RX470 "requires" an 8 pin pci-e one, and it still works just fine without any 6 to 8 pin adapters. It might be ancient technology, but it's pretty resilient and reliable even after all these years.
Hyperthreading was well before x58. I remember some pentium 4's having it and it being talked about in the server space before then, That would have been during the very early 00's. x58 wasn't until 2008
My daily driver is a x58 platform. Gigabyte EP45-UD3R and X5670 @ 4.2ghz on water . I purposely bought this board for it's Overclocking ability back in the day, plus it's beautiful looking. I bought it the year it came out and all these years later it's still Gaming and Overclocking away with no issues. I have other newer platforms /systems, but i just seem to have a love for the X58 platform. Great vid as always.
I love LTT but I have to agree with you on this one. Something seems off in their test and I was surprised how badly the X58 system performed based on my own experiences. I have a 12 year old computer that I self built when I had my own boutique gaming computer company. Originally, it had a I7 950 on a Asus Sabertooth X58 MB, 2 x gtx275 in SLI and was running 12 GB of DDR3 in triple channel configuration. It was a demo rig but when I retired, I kept the computer for my own gaming use. Over the years it has seen a few upgrades. The 275s were replaced with a single GTX970 and later a RTX2060. I upgraded the PSU. I added a SSD. The memory was expanded to 24 GB in triple channel and the I7 950 was replaced with the I7 980x that I wanted but could not afford when new. This computer has gotten me through many hours of Diablo 2, WoW (my son playing) GuildWars, Conan, Crysis, GuildWars2, Starcraft2, Rift, Knights of the Old Republic, MechWarrior Online, Witcher Wild Hunt, HBS BattleTech and MW5: Mercenaries. I do not benchmark but I have played all those games at 1080p with no FPS problems on both Windows7 Pro 64 bit and later Windows 10 Pro 64bit. Even though I recently built a new Ryzen 5600X gaming PC, the above system is the one I am using to type this now and is still my primary rig. I love the X58 set-up and just cannot seem to let it go.
TY for taking the time to test this, I watched the same video and had pretty much the same set up and I remember it was way faster then what they were reporting. I figured maybe they had a unseen issue with components and just shrugged it off, but it made me go through my storage looking for my old parts but ended up bringing home about a ton of old GPU's and RAM instead....But thanks again because this was nagging at me lol
I’m so glad you provided a follow up video for this! I’ve been a huge fan of rocking those xeon cpus in the X58 form factor because of you and got into it for dirt cheap! Such a great budget PC or someone looking to get into pc gaming!
Very puzzling... I had two X58/Xeon systems for the longest time and always had great frame rates at 1440P using a 1080Ti. I sold them last year and upgraded to 3800XTs, but I still miss my X58s so much :(. Great video as always.
I ran a Sabertooth X58 up till 2022 on windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 10, and Windows 11. Finally the day after Christmas I built a new rig, because I was pushing 95% CPU usage on production work.
Yea that video from LTT was the nail in the coffin for me, if they don't do due diligence and check other peoples results for a sanity check then whats the point in the first place. Now I just see them as the Top Gear of the pc world, entertaining but if you want hard facts then look elsewhere. Great video man! X58 is still not dead, even runs Windows 11 fine.
Still love your x58 videos.. Its like LGR channel with little newer hardware or hardware that has a special place in many hearts. So even though i was privy to the x58 with xeon combo i had a intel dsx58so that ran a x5650. I still loved your x58 videos.. the dual socket and videos about thats MARZ asus video was also one of my fav. Thanks brian for the x58 videos. I also not had many x58 boards MSI GD65,Asus Rampage 3 gene,inte x58, gigabyte ud3r and Dell t3500 but my newest x58 is evga Sli 3 I really like it. I am only getting 3.8 on my x5670 but my psu on this latest x58 is trashy. Next system i am getting is an HP z800 dual x58 socket with dual x5670 i know they will be stock but i will love it regardless. Brian Please dont care about noise alot of people know that x58 has its limits lolz over 10 years old but it is cool...... its a great great platformthat blows any modern intel platform out the water for its worth and pleasure it brings its owners still. I mean sticking with x58 has be a pleasure for me at least like this if its been a pleasure for you too... Oh i forgot please look for a lanparty x58 man they make me happy regards Adam for South Africa
8:20 that's the same sentiments I have with tech outlets that reviewed the 2990WX Threadripper. Most panned it because they were getting not so spectacular results. But a lot of those issues were due to the Windows 10 OS itself.
Gen 1/1.5 Ryzen also had an issue with IPC caused by AVX2 (it only does AVX2 at half rate), micro-op buffer, and task scheduler. There are ways to help this but you cant quite "fix" it. Threadripper and Epyc cpu's with 1MB of L3 per thread showed the problem the worst typically, the ones which had disabled cores had more L3 per thread and didnt suffer as badly.
X58 is still used for budget workstations and render boxes in many cases because the performance is still so high for professional applications that can fully utilize the xeon functions. This is especially true if you drop in a couple of cheap second hand tesla cards to help out.
@@nonaurbizniz7440 I don't have experience with workstations, thanks for the informations. I have an x58 myself, bought for very cheap (very rare to happen in Europe): the motherboard has one broken pin but it works perfectly, even overclocked, I put an x5675, following the Bryan advices and now it's my secondary build, which I use when I want to have fun testing.
Out of curiosity, I had a look at the specs for the W3670 and the X5670 on ark.intel. There are a few interesting differences between the cpus. First the W3670 only supports DDR3 1066 whereas the X5670 supports 1333. Second, and this is odd, the W3670 has a TDP of 130w but a TCase of only 67.9C. The X5670 has a 95W TDP with a TCase of 81.3C. Is the X5670 just better binned Westmere? I'm curious if you think the differences in memory speed, TDP, and TCase might account for some of the difference in your testing vs. LTT?
Tcase shouldn't make a difference if they used even something like a snowman $20 cooler. Though 68 degree top I think is not the actual tjunction on the westmere procs, I believe they shut off at 101 degrees. Though if the Tcase was a problem on their setup and the CPU was unstable due to heat, it would have shown immediately in the cinebench R23 stress test (which stresses the CPU much harder than any of the games presented), so basically I don't believe temps or throttling was an issue on their setup. As for binning, X5675 I believe is the best binned Xeon from experience (it's the one I recommend if you are hardcore about OCing on x58 with a good board). However us xeon lovers actually have never got any official confirmation as to which were the officially the best binned xeons so to speak. As for the TDP I recently tested the x5690 as well and had absolutely no problems with that CPU and that is one of the hottest running xeons in the line up on TDP 130W scores. So that should not make a difference at all. Lastly memory speeds shouldn't be an issue on triple channel with three sticks. Even an i7-920 should be able to run 3 sticks at 1700~ MHZ in triple channel. Hope this clears some things up.
@@techyescity Thanks for taking the time to reply! I was thinking after I posted that if the temps were kept under control and both chips were at 4GHz, even slower RAM couldn't account for that performance difference. Makes me wonder where LTT went wrong on that review. Thanks for clearing up my questions!
I questioned their X58 results was I saw the vid. Their OC was very likely unstable. LTT in general is just not that invested in old harware to give these old chips a fair shake.
R u trying to say that because OC was unstable, the test numbers were bad..?? If OC is unstable, the PC will crash during the tests. Unstable OC won't give worse results, it will either give the OC'd result, or no result at all.
@@JukkaX Not necessarily, you can have OC passing stress tests, but have performance regression. It's still not a stable OC, it just won't crash. I speak from experience.
Brian, I am a huge X58 enthusiast too! I’d love it if you did a dream x58 build, with a top asus rampage III black, top cpu, ssd, maybe a 2060 ti, maxxed out ram, liquid cooling, usb 3 pci card, sound card, etc, and ser how it does!
I have the i7 990x version (3.46Ghz stock) running at 5Ghz. Stil a good CPU for today's games. I use the "ASUS P6T" mobo. There is another awkward thing about the x58 chipset. My mobo officially supports a max of 24GB. But for some strange reason it can even support up to 48GB ram (which i have installed right now) I have read that it is even possible to insert 96GB ram in combination with a Xeon cpu. And speaking about the missing avx and avx 2. (about 1 in 100 games will this be a requirement) Also for games that needs these instructions, in some cases there is a "workaround" for the x58 chipset to make the games work a full 100% One more thing abour RAM overclocking. I managed to overclock "Kingston Hyper-X Beast 1866 Mhz" (24GB with all ram slots occupied) to 2147 Mhz. So even with using all RAM slots, overclocking your memory is still no problem. I think it has also to do what kind of brand you use, and if you have a good batch.
For the past few years I've been using an old x58 build with an i7 950, 16GB of ram and a gtx980ti and the performance was ok I guess but it often was not able run even games like Minecraft at 100+ FPS consistenty at stock settings (with optifine or even sodium). I switched to a 12600k with DDR4 RAM and my FPS has gone from 100 average to 600+ average. That just shows how much of a difference having a modern CPU makes in a CPU bound game
Brian, i got 2 x58 boards with coolers and i7-930 and i7-960 cpus here in Brisbane for $25 AUD. One GB board (both are GB) was stuck in endless boot cycle (common the GB boards), however the CPU was fine. The other board with the 960 is in perfect working order.. And to add the Cex here in Garden City is selling 2gb sticks of DD3 for $0.50. So 12gb of DD3 1600 only cost me $6. They are also setting 4Gb sticks for 2.50 AUD each. So the 24gb configuration (an overkill for this board) is not that exe either. These are 3ple channels so we are in the DD4 space here.
X58 was my first introduction to the I7 series. Because of you it got updated to a xeon. I bought it in 2012. I believe I watched one of your videos in 2016. I have 3 x58 PC's. 2 of which I bought for $5 or less. Just barebones.
LTT did a hamfisted 20x200 OC on that W3670, which itself isn’t a highly thought of chip for OCing and - as you pointed out - is a terrible value for money. It’s also worth being a bit pedantic and highlighting that the memory limitations on the W3670, the 130W TDP, and the 24x133 (W) instead of 22x133 (X) multiplier and bclk combination do make it a bit different.
LTT benchmarks have always been all over the place from what I’ve observed in the past. Numbers always seem to vary wildly compared to other review outlets like gamers nexus and hardware unboxed. Has led to many videos where they come to a conclusion that I have found to be bad advice.
Anybody who takes LTT's content seriously deserves to be misled. He's fine for light entertainment, but I'd never trust his opinion when it comes to making a purchasing decision.
LTT is a waste of time these days. If I want serious testing from competent people it's Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed for me, along with TYC of course!.
LTT is just your average tech channel and not recommended for in-depth analysis, I go for GN, HWB (and TYC). Alternatively you can also check Digital Foundry if you want in-depth for software/game side analysis specially consoles.
If you can get a dual socket motherboard with lots of RAM slots for cheap, then a dual X5690 setup works quite well for multiprocessing workloads such as data transformation, ETL, databases, and similar. Only downside is that DDR3 is still a bit expensive. I'm running dual X5690's with a custom watercooling loop and 192GB RAM, and it works quite well for processing large amounts of AIS geodata.
My last tower computer (before switching to a server) was a pair of X5690's with a Titan Xp. Moved to some E7-8870's. Still using Westmere, not sure if I still count as an X58 user. But OC'able Xeons need to come back.
I rocked a l5639 and 24gb of ram in a massive nzxt 810 for YEARS, as a homelabber/datahoarder it was a great setup. I sold it off when I downsized my life during the previous mining boom, I'm sure its still sitting in dude's basement churning away. the only part of that build I regret letting go is the zalman 9700. a beautiful funky heatsink. if I stumbled across another board/ram IRL for less than $50 I'd probably build it out, but if I were to order something it'd be a ddr4 board with ipmi.
As soon as I saw that LTT used a W3670 I knew they likely didn't do enough research. The multiplier-locked W3670 makes no sense - pay like $5-10 more and you get the W3680 for $30 USD, which has an unlocked multiplier like the i7-970 and i7-980 (which are far too expensive for what they are). If you're content with only OC'ing with BCLK (which is totally viable), something like an X5650 or X5670 can be bought for $10 and $15 USD respectively. If LTT didn't bother to do that small bit of research I doubt they were diligent or thorough with their testing of older systems.
@@DEJ915 yeah I've seen some unlucky Xeon owners having to deal with them. Thankfully my own X5650 was rock solid at 4GHz and 1.3V with a simple BCLK increase to 200, multiplier at the stock x20.
Same. I feel like LTT doesn't have a single hardware enthusiast onboard who has knowledge about legacy stuff and actual overclocking. No one in their right mind would use a W3670 for a video like this when CPUs like the x5650 or x5675 have been so much more popular within the x58 space.
I actually commented on the video asking why they would not use the W3680 (almost the same price, actually unlocked). That was really confusing - because in the video they said it was unlocked. And they clearly did overclock it too. So they must've done a very mild BCLK overclock to it.
I agree. I feel part of it that you have a passion & the "when new" user experience for real world use. And they probably only can go by synthetic scores & not taken time to use it. I'm currently still on ASUS X99-M WS w/ E5-1660-V4 (later i7-5960X) & Quad-Ch DDR4 Besides bringing Thunderbolt, nVme M.2, UEFI & DDR4 Quad-Cha. I'm impressed w/ X58's real world feel against old Patsburg X79. My new iTX Gaming mini is an i9-10850K but I still like these old setups. They hold their own. X99 has a chip slot to adapt to to Intel TPM for Windows 11. Tylersburg X58 holds a spot in my young gaming & OC'r heart. (:
Hey there x58 tribe, I've got an Asus Sabertooth x58, and it works very well and overclocks beautifully. But only when it feels like passing the cpu/mem/gpu checks, that is like 1 out of very much times. Any tips of what could it be the motive that's not passing the gpu check very well? I'm running it with a w3550 and rx580. Tried a FirePro v4800 with the same results.
@@techyescity I've got an x5675 from AliExpress, but I kinda have killed it while lapping. Or it came dead, I don't know, didn't test it before because I was waiting for a PSU at the time. But now, before ordering another one, I wanna be sure this board is working fine.
I had to underclock the RAM after overclocking an i7-980X to 4.5GHz for the system to be stable. I remember it being an FSB overclock though, so the RAM speed would increase proportionately with the CPU speed, then you manually take the DRAM speed back a couple of notches. Good times
Interesting. I would love to see you test the same cpu that they did. I know you said the 2 are the same but the spec sheet you showed indicates about 50 percent more bus speed/memory bandwidth. Also, your benchmarks may well be different than what they ran.
Yeah, I noticed that too. But seems like the extra bandwidth only helps in certain situations 'cos in many cpu tests the results seem to be very neck and neck. But I don't know how much that helps in games - would be interesting to see W3670 vs X5670 though.
Great video. The numbers did seem off to me. Would to see LTT acknowledge this (and you) and talk about it. I think its still hard to recommend x58 anymore though with the existence of Ryzen in the secondhand market. But like you said, the people that think x58 stuff isn't worth anything and you can pick it up for pennies on the dollar...then yeah it can be a hell of a deal still!
Such a framedrop that LTT got does indicate something like a memory channel that isn't working. Problem is also that when you use older hardware like that, you run into a lot of compatibility and I/O issues. I still have a sandy bridge I7-2600 around, issue is that the mainboard does not accept GTX 10 series or higher cards. Or even 9xx series.
Ah yes the 2nd gen was when they introduced secure boot for mainstream! some motherboards had some serious issues running newer GPUs, they fixed most of it by third gen, though some even in third gen still cause issues.
The same thing happens with FX CPUs. I recently tried a FX-8320 and was very surprised how well it was doing in e-Sport game that utilize a lot of cores. I did not even OC it.
Whoah hold up! Remember you're not supposed to say anything positive about FX processors despite your positive experience!! Ok just kidding. Over the years I've seen so much hate and vitriol towards them in tech forums and youtube tech videos and I never understood it. Were intel processors better than them in gaming? Sure but not nearly enough to garner the hate. Plus they were always cheaper so I think they provided better value. I built a computer for my in-laws using an FX-8320e because it was only $80 at the time. They are still using it to this day with no issues. Phenomenal value!
defo same happenings with the fx 8350 on gigabyte 990x gaming board 32 gig of ddr 3 and 4 gb rx 550 and it seem to cope with just about anything i chuck at it no isses but i see some much slating of the fx chips im not saying it one of best thing but it hold up very well may do better when i get better gpu
@@takehirolol5962 For sure but most people had something like 8320 or a locked i3. A 8-Core trashdozer will sill beat Sandy i3 with todays game engines and most likely even the 4c/4t locked cpu.
The only limitation using to X58 as far as I see is lack of modern CPU instructions, so some games might not even start though I think there aren't that many of them.
X58 was and is a great platform. I first had a I7 920 in a Asus rampage 2 extreme oc to 4 ghz and later at i7 980x in a Asus X58 premium board oc to 4.4 ghz and up to 4.75 ghz for benchmark runs and I even pair it with a gtx 1080 TI that ran greater that exspexted and I got nvme ssd to boot up and work that use for 3 years. But after 12 years I had to admit defeat last year where I upgraded to a dual system with a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 9 5950X cpu. I am not looking back amd miss X58, but yeah it was indeed a long loved and lived system. I was expensive back then. But given how long X58 was relevant, I'd say it was worth every penny spent.
I only recently stopped using my x5675 and P6x58d-e with 6 x 2gb, which I still have, because I got an RTX3080 so I moved to a1680 V3 on an Asus X99-A.USB3.1 with 4 x 8gb, runs Metro Exodus, and CP2077 buttery smooth 👍
Linus hasn't personally owned or built an X58 system since it was his daily driver. You work with them at least Monthly. Are you surprised mistakes were made?
Linus is just a figure head now, he has people that get the content for him. I stopped listening to him years ago as he really is no longer relevant. Gamers Nexus are always showing him up and Jayz Two Cents is more on the pulse of whats new and relevant. thats my 2 cents. Keep up the good work X58 can still rock at 1080p for budget gamers.
Could it be as well , that LTT didn't do what we all would do and didn't run inspectre to disable any CPU performance hits from meltdown and spectre fixes lol
@@danielivanov930 Like literally, it's one of the first things I do on earlier gen systems, no real downside for the average home consumer, as to take advantage of the exploits you kinda need local access anyway lol
Almost certain that he didn't do this, but i doubt that would account for the terrible performance he was getting. I think Bryan has a comparison on his channel.
Where can one go for specific help or information of x58 systems and OC'ing? You have inspired me to reinvigorate my old i7-920 system for my kids' first gaming PC. I suspect I'm going to have questions so a relatively active board/forum maybe?
i just bought an X5675 last week (20 USD), replacing the i7 920 in my chinese aliexpress board (cannot overclock), but still have turbo boost to 3,2Ghz.... (Cinebench R15 696 Pts) Purposing it to be an office pc... 6c/12t .... TDP 95W ... 30 dollar HSF Cooler keep it below 70C in full load... idle 37C... not bad and i'm very happy about it...
have a feeling that RAM being faster with 3 sticks out of 6 also applies to X399 Threadripper boards as i struggle with RAM speed with all 8 slots populated
Also for those wondering, in these benchmarks we left spectre and meltdown updates all on, you can turn them off for an additional bump in performance. Though I assume LTT would have left them on.
Hopefully people watch Linux Tech Tips and this stuff will become cheaper for those in the know. But what do I know, I'm still running Core 2 Duo.
@@kalliste23 you wanna upgrade to a core 2 quad for a few bucks send me your bios
LInus was using a cheap Chinese motherboard from Aliexpress. He talked about not having sleep function as well. A lot of those motherboards have problems. #X58PROBLEMS
@@zeroandplanb4life one machine is a Dell 780 and I have 2 HP DC7900 CMT ... I was wondering about putting in different processors but it hardly seems worth spending any money at all on such ancient machines. They're all from the junk pile except I did buy an NVidia Quadro P400 at a decent price which is in one of the HP, though it should probably be in the Dell which has DDR3 memory rather than DDR2 and a 3.2GHz C2D.
I was just thinking the difference was the spectre/meltdown patches being applied/notapplied.
the current LTT situation makes this video here even more interesting..
i wonder of accurate their testing was.
I use an X5675 in a game server, upgraded an old Dell workstation that I got for free to 6C/12T and 24 GB of RAM for $70. It works beautifully. Great video Brian!
I built a i7-950 overclocked to 4.2ghz on a asus workstation board with 24gig triple channel memory and a gtx 1050ti scc so far its played everything my exes son has thrown at it on his steam account still spanks console so long as your not trying to push 4k on it
Thanks for doing this Bryan! I was one of the people who immediately thought of you and sent you and email about their video. I'm very happy to see I wasn't the only one who felt something was off and I'm baffled by the differences in results!
Keep up the great content! Still running an X58 setup as my primary rig. ASUS P6X58d MB w/ x5660 @ 4.2ghz, 24gb ddr3 @1600mhz, and an EVGA gtx 1060 6gb. Sure it may not be the fastest pc out there but it's still a solid build.
I’ve been using x58 since about a month from your first posting about the benefits of it - $1200 (CDN) bought me x2 processors, cases, new RAM, motherboards and hardware, and x2 rx580s. Still going strong with both systems, and your tips have saved me a tonne of money and time. Keep up the great work!
Fascinating. I've still been having exceptional results with S2011 Xeon Hexes, the 1650/60, which both OC quite well. Good to hear X58 is still purring along as a nice option also for basically pennies.
I personally run the e5-2689 still and its pretty good even tho my board is limiting ram to dual channel only. And max ram speed it 1600mhz but my 5€ 16gb 2x8gb kit is 1066mhz stock and 1333mhz max oc
I'm also a huge fan of 2011 chips. I build PCs as a side hustle (inspired by Tech Yes of course), and the value is better than X58 in my opinion. The boards are a bit more expensive ($60 locally or $65-$70 for a Chinese board), but you get access to modern instruction sets and higher core counts. My CPUs of choice are the 2670 (under $10 for an 8 core), 2689 ($10-$15 for a powerhouse), or the 1620 ($10-$15 for a higher clock speed 4c8t)
@@JDStickland Honestly how tech yes said if you look localy you could find x58 boards fpr pretty good prices. I got a rampage 2 extreme, 16gb ddr3 8+4×2 and X 5570 for 100€, which i replaced with a X5690 which i found for 20€.
here in japan is raining x58 boards ...i got 6 already ...and i avoid msi boards (some boards dont support xeon cpu s) !! also i got a problem with a gigabyte board ( ex58 ds4 ) ...after i got a stable oc the board switch off and now only gives a led signal and turn off !!??!!??
the current LTT situation shines a different light on this video. i wonder how deep the wrong test results iceberg of ltt goes.
I'm never giving up my Evga x58 + i7-980x combo. It runs hot. It sucks power. It's sometimes fast! But always fun to overclock and play with.
Well well well.... this video aged like fine wine...
I'm still rocking a x5650 @ 4.4ghz on the same Asus extreme phase motherboard you use paired with a 980ti and it does great at 1080p
some games wont even launch on that cpu and the number is quickly growing cause its missing AVX instructions now if your CPU doesnt support AVX-2 now some new games wont launch, the lowest generation cpu you would want to even use nowadays is 4th gen xeon or i7
@@kyles8524 thankfully all the games I play (beamng drive, doom eternal, red dead redemption 2, wreck fest), and many more play with no issues, I have a 10th gen Intel rig but I like seeing these older rigs get used,
@@kyles8524 I had to upgrade from my old x58 rig pretty much specifically because I got a vr headset and even entry level vr (like an WMR headset) needs AVX support.
I think that goes to show, it depends on individual needs, and the games you play.
I've been using X58 (X5650, ASUS P6T SE with 48gb DDR3) for about a decade as my daily driver and not planning to change it for at least five more years. :)
Trust the B-man to run the right X58 numbers! Top stuff mate, keep at it!
LTT is too focused on current hardware since it gets the most views. They don't really know how to effectively use older hardware, it's a real bummer. Just look at X79 or X99 for example
@@farawaythrower how is that a surprise? Do you think really old tech would be mainstream, especially when it doesn't make sense to jump through hoops buying and checking comparability of old stuff compared to new
@@samgoff5289 i never said it was a surprise? lol
@@samgoff5289 when I was buying x58 it was like 5 times cheaper than "mainstream" new solution for the similar performance xD so yeah let people without knowledge and will to tweak your setup buy x times more expensive hardware when I will get some old xeons into my setup for dirt cheap and laugh at them
This is an excellent re-examination of X58! I was disappointed by the results from LTT, but this has renewed my interest in the older architecture!
Good video👍🏻 good to see x58 still going strong. I bought it when it first came out and held onto it for 5 years best value ever.
I feel like the lack of AVX is the main reason i would usually not recommend these at this point. You can get a sandy bridge x79 for such a small amount more that even a tight budget could cough up the extra few dollars. That said, i can't see how they botched their results this badly without questioning it. They should know the IPC of the architecture and have a rough estimate of what it could do. And the lack of gains from OC should have been an obvious red flag as well that something was wrong with the test system.
HUGE ANIME BREASTS
@@KokoroKatsura if that’s wrong I don’t wanna be right
you dont want anything older than 4th gen intel architecture cause that supports AVX-2 and some games now require it
@@kyles8524 what games would those be? i have only personally heard of games requiring AVX (1)
@@eclipsegst9419 its cause there have been patches but the games run like shit
Nice to see that you're an authentic tech channel still, rather than a clickbaity shell.
Like the way you pull out this one. Humble and constructive
Never clicked a video so fast in my life. That’s how much Tech Yes content I like
yes we would like to know what happened that restricted the performance during LTT testing, thanks for pointing this out Brian 😀👍
I can tell you from my experience the W3670 is slower and it is right cause the bus speed of the w3670 is only 4.8 GT/s vs the x5670 has a bus speed of 6.4 GT/s. The W series of the x58 series Xeon's have a slower bus speed than the X series do themselves. You compare a W3520 (What I have) and the X5670 (I also have) the bus speed difference is still 1.6 GT/s.
Why in the videos the w3670 is correct in slow performance.
Bought into x58 with an i7 920 when it came out, still got the same setup but just with a 6 core overclocked Xeon now. Amazing value for money! Only downside is no AVX.
Way to go tech YES man. I love LTT but we all make mistakes. Glad we have each other to check in a friendly way!
Love your content man.
Love that you keep it classy, Brian.
The same thing applies to Motherboards that come with 4 RAM slots as well it is more difficult to overclock 4 sticks of RAM vs 2 sticks. Also with my 4790k Z97 setup I had to overvolt the ram to 1.65V when I added an additional 16GB of RAM to get the system to 32GB in order for Windows to be stable or I would get BSOD after Windows loads due to the extra strain of the memory controller. Also leave to the x58 expert to get more accurate benchmarks with them 1st gen 6/12t Xeons.
if I may ask: how did u overvolt the ram ? how did u choose that volt number?
@@cajvserlis1603 I went and searched for other DDR3 kits that have an overvolted rating on their sticker online and it said some kits were sold with a rating of 1.65V and that is how I did it.
@@cajvserlis1603 Z97 its fully unlocked, u can put any voltages u want on the RAM...
It's been like that for decades AMD/Intel! Do ya' research before buying!
And NOPE! ..mATX with 2 RAM slots ain't better, dear younglings!
@@dallesamllhals9161 First off I am not a Youngling and 2nd of all yes motherboards with 2 RAM slots are better for memory overclocking than 4 slots.
Thanks for following up on LTT's video!
X58 has it's flaws. Such as lower IPC and lack of AVX instruction sets (lack of AVX2 can be significant if you want to experiment with Yuzu). Usually, it's better to get something a little better if you have the budget, but if you're on a super tight on a budget - from what I understand - X58 can still have a great value proposition. It also depends on what games you play. IPC and single core performance can be really important if anyone is interested in higher end emulation such as CEMU. Dolphin is pretty optimized nowdays, but it may have some small hiccups on X58 on some edge-case scenarios.
About half a decade ago, I remember building a cheap E8600 build for my brother, and he could play Project M netplay with that build.
I'd love to see a breakdown by TechYesCity on a comparison with other budget Xeon platforms like X79 and X99. 1151 Mutants are always fun to look at, but the value proposition of higher end mutants looks to have gone away now that Alder Lake is here.
That would be a good breakdown, although I myself don't need to see it because my 2 running systems are both x99 (one dual CPU server and the other being a 6950x gaming system) and my other 2 unused systems are x58 and x99 too. But x79 I'd have no clue and perhaps x299 could be included but as everyone in the know probably understands that THAT isn't a good value proposition. At least until the value drops to the ground like the others did. HEDT builds are just. Mint. When they come to longevity. Triple channel memory for x58, quad channel for above. Can be pretty comparable to current Gen capabilities.
I wish LTT might adress this, maybe they can reach out to you if they have trouble fixing.
Or they send you the old chips they tested and do a collab with you. :)
A LTT, and TechYESCity collab is long overdue...
Imagine Bryan joining Scrapyard Wars...
@@cjmpaja I always wanted this... It would be the best collab' ever !
@@cjmpaja but then there is no contest ;)
I prefer my Tech Yes without Linus.
@@cjmpaja too bad they said they won’t be doing another scrapyard wars on a wan livestream
Tbh, I think too what people need to consider when looking at the benchmarks is different system builds with different motherboard/ram/cpu combos and bios revisions can dramatically alter the results and stability so it important to look at various sites, as always, when considering a pc build.
Great video! My main rig is still a Gigabyte X58 with a X5650 overclocked to 3.80 with 24 GB memory. KUTGW! Love your videos 😁😊😀
Thanks for letting us know!
Not surprised LTT got it wrong; due to their being so influential there's now a lot of people who have the wrong idea about X58.
In general, using 3-channel RAM on X58, oc'ing will tend to limit RAM speeds to the 1600 to 1800 range. By contrast, P55 can use RAM at least as high as 2133. Higher speeds are possible with X58 using dual channel, but of course this is offset by the loss of a channel. Oc'ing P55 was easier because it doesn't have an IOH or Uncore structure (PCIe lanes go direct to the CPU, whereas with X58 they go via the IOH, which adds latency, hence partly why P55 was usually faster).
Re M.2 support, some NVMe drives have their own boot ROM and will thus work ok as a boot drive with X58, such as the Samsung 950 Pro and certain Intel models, while for some mbds (especially ASUS) enthusiasts have created custom BIOS profiles to add NVMe boot support along with other newer features. Also, one can still use NVMe just fine as data drives held in PCIe adapters.
What surprises me is why Linus didn't suspect there was anything wrong in the first place, those numbers are clearly way off for what should be CPU-bound situations, and the crashes suggest something else is amiss. Somehow I suspect though that LTT (whoever actually did the testing) is not someone who regularly watches the likes of yourself, Myconst, RandomGamingInHD, Craft Computing, PhilsComputerLab or the many others who do videos about old XEON hw.
True. LTT is more focused on high end stuff since most people would watch those over other "budget" tech which is quite underrated.
LTT has never been a reliable source.
Well the writer for the video was Alex Clark, and I am not entirely sure he would be familiar with the intricacies of X58 memory and such. My guess is that they put it together quickly, tried standard procedure (just enable XMP) and got it to apparently working but not properly. Their videos are shot on a tight schedule so what would be a big red flag and initiate troubleshooting - the windows install crash - wasn't investigated much.
I'm using a Gigabyte X58A-UD3R paired with a Xeon X5650@4Ghz, 12Gb of triple channel DDR3@2000mhz and RX470 4Gb as my backup pc. Only issues I had with it were related to making the board to identify all memory modules, it's a bit picky when it comes to ram modules. Otherwise, I had no other issues, be it hardware or windows 10 related. And the system is powered by an ancient Chieftec 500W psu, which has only 6 pins pci-e connectors, while my RX470 "requires" an 8 pin pci-e one, and it still works just fine without any 6 to 8 pin adapters. It might be ancient technology, but it's pretty resilient and reliable even after all these years.
@@viewstar89 LOL You'd be stupid to buy that motherboard these days, simply too expensive.
Hyperthreading was well before x58. I remember some pentium 4's having it and it being talked about in the server space before then, That would have been during the very early 00's. x58 wasn't until 2008
Oh yeah you are right sorry. I just remember the Quads before it didn't carry it.
BUT! In the end: More cores > than...!
Lol yeah. My socket 478 P4 2.6 had HT
Pentium 4 @3.8ghz with HT was very sexy back in the day.
X3XX xeons are the 1st gen xeons with HT, will still run almost all eSports titles really well with a cheap quadro card.
My daily driver is a x58 platform. Gigabyte EP45-UD3R and X5670 @ 4.2ghz on water . I purposely bought this board for it's Overclocking ability back in the day, plus it's beautiful looking. I bought it the year it came out and all these years later it's still Gaming and Overclocking away with no issues. I have other newer platforms /systems, but i just seem to have a love for the X58 platform. Great vid as always.
I love LTT but I have to agree with you on this one. Something seems off in their test and I was surprised how badly the X58 system performed based on my own experiences. I have a 12 year old computer that I self built when I had my own boutique gaming computer company. Originally, it had a I7 950 on a Asus Sabertooth X58 MB, 2 x gtx275 in SLI and was running 12 GB of DDR3 in triple channel configuration. It was a demo rig but when I retired, I kept the computer for my own gaming use. Over the years it has seen a few upgrades. The 275s were replaced with a single GTX970 and later a RTX2060. I upgraded the PSU. I added a SSD. The memory was expanded to 24 GB in triple channel and the I7 950 was replaced with the I7 980x that I wanted but could not afford when new. This computer has gotten me through many hours of Diablo 2, WoW (my son playing) GuildWars, Conan, Crysis, GuildWars2, Starcraft2, Rift, Knights of the Old Republic, MechWarrior Online, Witcher Wild Hunt, HBS BattleTech and MW5: Mercenaries. I do not benchmark but I have played all those games at 1080p with no FPS problems on both Windows7 Pro 64 bit and later Windows 10 Pro 64bit. Even though I recently built a new Ryzen 5600X gaming PC, the above system is the one I am using to type this now and is still my primary rig. I love the X58 set-up and just cannot seem to let it go.
TY for taking the time to test this, I watched the same video and had pretty much the same set up and I remember it was way faster then what they were reporting. I figured maybe they had a unseen issue with components and just shrugged it off, but it made me go through my storage looking for my old parts but ended up bringing home about a ton of old GPU's and RAM instead....But thanks again because this was nagging at me lol
I’m so glad you provided a follow up video for this! I’ve been a huge fan of rocking those xeon cpus in the X58 form factor because of you and got into it for dirt cheap!
Such a great budget PC or someone looking to get into pc gaming!
Great video Bryan. Love the content as always man.
Tech YES CITY vs LTT Xeon build battle. this needs to happen
Very puzzling... I had two X58/Xeon systems for the longest time and always had great frame rates at 1440P using a 1080Ti. I sold them last year and upgraded to 3800XTs, but I still miss my X58s so much :(. Great video as always.
I ran a Sabertooth X58 up till 2022 on windows XP, Windows 7, Windows 10, and Windows 11. Finally the day after Christmas I built a new rig, because I was pushing 95% CPU usage on production work.
Yea that video from LTT was the nail in the coffin for me, if they don't do due diligence and check other peoples results for a sanity check then whats the point in the first place. Now I just see them as the Top Gear of the pc world, entertaining but if you want hard facts then look elsewhere. Great video man! X58 is still not dead, even runs Windows 11 fine.
Exactly. LTT is only entertainment now. Thing is, personally, they haven't even got that going for them anymore.
That’s a good comparison with using top gear. Extremely entertaining, aaaand that’s it lol.
Good Video! (Really like your content)
As always, great content.
I thought the Pentium 4 was the first hyper threaded CPU from Intel ?
Still love your x58 videos.. Its like LGR channel with little newer hardware or hardware that has a special place in many hearts. So even though i was privy to the x58 with xeon combo i had a intel dsx58so that ran a x5650. I still loved your x58 videos.. the dual socket and videos about thats MARZ asus video was also one of my fav. Thanks brian for the x58 videos.
I also not had many x58 boards
MSI GD65,Asus Rampage 3 gene,inte x58, gigabyte ud3r and Dell t3500 but my newest x58 is evga Sli 3 I really like it.
I am only getting 3.8 on my x5670 but my psu on this latest x58 is trashy.
Next system i am getting is an HP z800 dual x58 socket with dual x5670 i know they will be stock but i will love it regardless.
Brian Please dont care about noise alot of people know that x58 has its limits lolz over 10 years old but it is cool......
its a great great platformthat blows any modern intel platform out the water for its worth and pleasure it brings its owners still.
I mean sticking with x58 has be a pleasure for me at least like this if its been a pleasure for you too...
Oh i forgot please look for a lanparty x58 man they make me happy regards Adam for South Africa
I was hoping you'd make this video! I remember seeing the LTT video and thinking, yeah, something's not right here
thanks for clarifying the small details always so glad and appreciative to get accurate information!
8:20 that's the same sentiments I have with tech outlets that reviewed the 2990WX Threadripper. Most panned it because they were getting not so spectacular results. But a lot of those issues were due to the Windows 10 OS itself.
And because they get bungs from Intel!
Gen 1/1.5 Ryzen also had an issue with IPC caused by AVX2 (it only does AVX2 at half rate), micro-op buffer, and task scheduler. There are ways to help this but you cant quite "fix" it. Threadripper and Epyc cpu's with 1MB of L3 per thread showed the problem the worst typically, the ones which had disabled cores had more L3 per thread and didnt suffer as badly.
I miss the x58 and xeon, glad to see you keep talking about them.
X58 is still used for budget workstations and render boxes in many cases because the performance is still so high for professional applications that can fully utilize the xeon functions. This is especially true if you drop in a couple of cheap second hand tesla cards to help out.
@@nonaurbizniz7440 I don't have experience with workstations, thanks for the informations. I have an x58 myself, bought for very cheap (very rare to happen in Europe): the motherboard has one broken pin but it works perfectly, even overclocked, I put an x5675, following the Bryan advices and now it's my secondary build, which I use when I want to have fun testing.
Thanks for high lighting this. Just goes to show large channels can sometimes demonstrate incompetence, or worse, deception. Kudos.
Out of curiosity, I had a look at the specs for the W3670 and the X5670 on ark.intel. There are a few interesting differences between the cpus. First the W3670 only supports DDR3 1066 whereas the X5670 supports 1333. Second, and this is odd, the W3670 has a TDP of 130w but a TCase of only 67.9C. The X5670 has a 95W TDP with a TCase of 81.3C. Is the X5670 just better binned Westmere? I'm curious if you think the differences in memory speed, TDP, and TCase might account for some of the difference in your testing vs. LTT?
Tcase shouldn't make a difference if they used even something like a snowman $20 cooler. Though 68 degree top I think is not the actual tjunction on the westmere procs, I believe they shut off at 101 degrees. Though if the Tcase was a problem on their setup and the CPU was unstable due to heat, it would have shown immediately in the cinebench R23 stress test (which stresses the CPU much harder than any of the games presented), so basically I don't believe temps or throttling was an issue on their setup.
As for binning, X5675 I believe is the best binned Xeon from experience (it's the one I recommend if you are hardcore about OCing on x58 with a good board). However us xeon lovers actually have never got any official confirmation as to which were the officially the best binned xeons so to speak.
As for the TDP I recently tested the x5690 as well and had absolutely no problems with that CPU and that is one of the hottest running xeons in the line up on TDP 130W scores. So that should not make a difference at all. Lastly memory speeds shouldn't be an issue on triple channel with three sticks. Even an i7-920 should be able to run 3 sticks at 1700~ MHZ in triple channel.
Hope this clears some things up.
@@techyescity Thanks for taking the time to reply! I was thinking after I posted that if the temps were kept under control and both chips were at 4GHz, even slower RAM couldn't account for that performance difference. Makes me wonder where LTT went wrong on that review. Thanks for clearing up my questions!
I questioned their X58 results was I saw the vid. Their OC was very likely unstable. LTT in general is just not that invested in old harware to give these old chips a fair shake.
R u trying to say that because OC was unstable, the test numbers were bad..?? If OC is unstable, the PC will crash during the tests. Unstable OC won't give worse results, it will either give the OC'd result, or no result at all.
@@JukkaX
Not necessarily, you can have OC passing stress tests, but have performance regression. It's still not a stable OC, it just won't crash.
I speak from experience.
@@JukkaX wrong
That may be true however they still had crap performance at stock on LTT's rig
@@napowolf Yea.. I now remember it happening in LinX.
Brian, I am a huge X58 enthusiast too! I’d love it if you did a dream x58 build, with a top asus rampage III black, top cpu, ssd, maybe a 2060 ti, maxxed out ram, liquid cooling, usb 3 pci card, sound card, etc, and ser how it does!
I have the i7 990x version (3.46Ghz stock) running at 5Ghz.
Stil a good CPU for today's games.
I use the "ASUS P6T" mobo.
There is another awkward thing about the x58 chipset.
My mobo officially supports a max of 24GB.
But for some strange reason it can even support up to 48GB ram (which i have installed right now)
I have read that it is even possible to insert 96GB ram in combination with a Xeon cpu.
And speaking about the missing avx and avx 2. (about 1 in 100 games will this be a requirement)
Also for games that needs these instructions, in some cases there is a "workaround" for the x58 chipset to make the games work a full 100%
One more thing abour RAM overclocking.
I managed to overclock "Kingston Hyper-X Beast 1866 Mhz" (24GB with all ram slots occupied) to 2147 Mhz.
So even with using all RAM slots, overclocking your memory is still no problem.
I think it has also to do what kind of brand you use, and if you have a good batch.
Is it possible they had specter and meltdown mitigations in place resulting in the low averages and 1% lows?
For the past few years I've been using an old x58 build with an i7 950, 16GB of ram and a gtx980ti and the performance was ok I guess but it often was not able run even games like Minecraft at 100+ FPS consistenty at stock settings (with optifine or even sodium).
I switched to a 12600k with DDR4 RAM and my FPS has gone from 100 average to 600+ average. That just shows how much of a difference having a modern CPU makes in a CPU bound game
Brian, i got 2 x58 boards with coolers and i7-930 and i7-960 cpus here in Brisbane for $25 AUD. One GB board (both are GB) was stuck in endless boot cycle (common the GB boards), however the CPU was fine. The other board with the 960 is in perfect working order.. And to add the Cex here in Garden City is selling 2gb sticks of DD3 for $0.50. So 12gb of DD3 1600 only cost me $6. They are also setting 4Gb sticks for 2.50 AUD each. So the 24gb configuration (an overkill for this board) is not that exe either. These are 3ple channels so we are in the DD4 space here.
As soon as I seen the Linus video I knew something was not right , awesome video as always!!
X58 was my first introduction to the I7 series. Because of you it got updated to a xeon. I bought it in 2012. I believe I watched one of your videos in 2016. I have 3 x58 PC's. 2 of which I bought for $5 or less. Just barebones.
A new video for the X58 leyend platform is an instant +1
I thought the LTT numbers were off, but I didn't think it was that big of difference. What did they do?? Very confused
Love the content
There were some 775 motherboards with ddr3(but x58 could be before it), and hyper-threading was in something called Pentium4 ages before x58
Love your content what inspired me to build x58 PCs . I’ve sold hundreds now in the last few years for good value for price.
LTT did a hamfisted 20x200 OC on that W3670, which itself isn’t a highly thought of chip for OCing and - as you pointed out - is a terrible value for money.
It’s also worth being a bit pedantic and highlighting that the memory limitations on the W3670, the 130W TDP, and the 24x133 (W) instead of 22x133 (X) multiplier and bclk combination do make it a bit different.
Curious, was the spectre/meltdown patch apllied to testing rigs (yours and ltt)?
good question.
i totally forgot about that
Wish I could find a patch for mine. Intel DX58S02 just didn't get one as far as I can tell.
Woah I completely forgot this existed lol,good question
You not need that if none else have access to your system...
LTT benchmarks have always been all over the place from what I’ve observed in the past. Numbers always seem to vary wildly compared to other review outlets like gamers nexus and hardware unboxed. Has led to many videos where they come to a conclusion that I have found to be bad advice.
Is Tech Yes City Linus's Dad
Anybody who takes LTT's content seriously deserves to be misled. He's fine for light entertainment, but I'd never trust his opinion when it comes to making a purchasing decision.
LTT is a waste of time these days. If I want serious testing from competent people it's Gamers Nexus and Hardware Unboxed for me, along with TYC of course!.
They never have a consistent person doing benchmarks
LTT is just your average tech channel and not recommended for in-depth analysis, I go for GN, HWB (and TYC). Alternatively you can also check Digital Foundry if you want in-depth for software/game side analysis specially consoles.
I wonder if they were running limited PCI-e lanes for the GPU or had it set to PCI-e Gen 1.
If you can get a dual socket motherboard with lots of RAM slots for cheap, then a dual X5690 setup works quite well for multiprocessing workloads such as data transformation, ETL, databases, and similar. Only downside is that DDR3 is still a bit expensive. I'm running dual X5690's with a custom watercooling loop and 192GB RAM, and it works quite well for processing large amounts of AIS geodata.
AAaaa YES, i am ready to watch the YES man vs the main stream big sponsored channel comparison.
my w3680 is still going strong. love this beast.
Using the same chip too!
Same here
I ran X58 rigs for years previously and my scores line-up way closer to TYC's...in fact I'd go so far as to say LTT's are somehow misrepresented.
They shill for Intel and AMD’s newest stuff to make money
@@PersianImm0rtal I get that, but they can leave tho old good stuff alone instead of trying to rewrite the record-books.
great contents and video and charts and comparison with LTT
My last tower computer (before switching to a server) was a pair of X5690's with a Titan Xp. Moved to some E7-8870's. Still using Westmere, not sure if I still count as an X58 user. But OC'able Xeons need to come back.
It is good that father corrects sons mistakes.
We'll see if Linus brings this up next WAN show. He is pretty good about addressing stuff on that.
I rocked a l5639 and 24gb of ram in a massive nzxt 810 for YEARS, as a homelabber/datahoarder it was a great setup.
I sold it off when I downsized my life during the previous mining boom, I'm sure its still sitting in dude's basement churning away.
the only part of that build I regret letting go is the zalman 9700. a beautiful funky heatsink. if I stumbled across another board/ram IRL for less than $50 I'd probably build it out, but if I were to order something it'd be a ddr4 board with ipmi.
As soon as I saw that LTT used a W3670 I knew they likely didn't do enough research. The multiplier-locked W3670 makes no sense - pay like $5-10 more and you get the W3680 for $30 USD, which has an unlocked multiplier like the i7-970 and i7-980 (which are far too expensive for what they are). If you're content with only OC'ing with BCLK (which is totally viable), something like an X5650 or X5670 can be bought for $10 and $15 USD respectively. If LTT didn't bother to do that small bit of research I doubt they were diligent or thorough with their testing of older systems.
The multi unlocked ones were mainly nice to work around bclk hole issues.
@@DEJ915 yeah I've seen some unlucky Xeon owners having to deal with them. Thankfully my own X5650 was rock solid at 4GHz and 1.3V with a simple BCLK increase to 200, multiplier at the stock x20.
Same. I feel like LTT doesn't have a single hardware enthusiast onboard who has knowledge about legacy stuff and actual overclocking. No one in their right mind would use a W3670 for a video like this when CPUs like the x5650 or x5675 have been so much more popular within the x58 space.
I actually commented on the video asking why they would not use the W3680 (almost the same price, actually unlocked). That was really confusing - because in the video they said it was unlocked. And they clearly did overclock it too. So they must've done a very mild BCLK overclock to it.
I agree. I feel part of it that you have a passion & the "when new" user experience for real world use. And they probably only can go by synthetic scores & not taken time to use it. I'm currently still on ASUS X99-M WS w/ E5-1660-V4 (later i7-5960X) & Quad-Ch DDR4 Besides bringing Thunderbolt, nVme M.2, UEFI & DDR4 Quad-Cha. I'm impressed w/ X58's real world feel against old Patsburg X79. My new iTX Gaming mini is an i9-10850K but I still like these old setups. They hold their own. X99 has a chip slot to adapt to to Intel TPM for Windows 11. Tylersburg X58 holds a spot in my young gaming & OC'r heart. (:
Hey there x58 tribe, I've got an Asus Sabertooth x58, and it works very well and overclocks beautifully. But only when it feels like passing the cpu/mem/gpu checks, that is like 1 out of very much times. Any tips of what could it be the motive that's not passing the gpu check very well? I'm running it with a w3550 and rx580. Tried a FirePro v4800 with the same results.
w3550 is a 45nm proc? Definitely want to pair that sabertooth with an x5670 or 75. They are two of my favourites.
@@techyescity I've got an x5675 from AliExpress, but I kinda have killed it while lapping. Or it came dead, I don't know, didn't test it before because I was waiting for a PSU at the time. But now, before ordering another one, I wanna be sure this board is working fine.
I had to underclock the RAM after overclocking an i7-980X to 4.5GHz for the system to be stable. I remember it being an FSB overclock though, so the RAM speed would increase proportionately with the CPU speed, then you manually take the DRAM speed back a couple of notches. Good times
Interesting. I would love to see you test the same cpu that they did. I know you said the 2 are the same but the spec sheet you showed indicates about 50 percent more bus speed/memory bandwidth. Also, your benchmarks may well be different than what they ran.
Yeah, I noticed that too. But seems like the extra bandwidth only helps in certain situations 'cos in many cpu tests the results seem to be very neck and neck. But I don't know how much that helps in games - would be interesting to see W3670 vs X5670 though.
I love the X58, especially Xeon OC'ing - following the Tech Yes Guide
Great video. The numbers did seem off to me. Would to see LTT acknowledge this (and you) and talk about it. I think its still hard to recommend x58 anymore though with the existence of Ryzen in the secondhand market. But like you said, the people that think x58 stuff isn't worth anything and you can pick it up for pennies on the dollar...then yeah it can be a hell of a deal still!
Happy to see you're still looking out for your son Linus
Such a framedrop that LTT got does indicate something like a memory channel that isn't working.
Problem is also that when you use older hardware like that, you run into a lot of compatibility and I/O issues. I still have a sandy bridge I7-2600 around, issue is that the mainboard does not accept GTX 10 series or higher cards. Or even 9xx series.
Ah yes the 2nd gen was when they introduced secure boot for mainstream! some motherboards had some serious issues running newer GPUs, they fixed most of it by third gen, though some even in third gen still cause issues.
The same thing happens with FX CPUs. I recently tried a FX-8320 and was very surprised how well it was doing in e-Sport game that utilize a lot of cores. I did not even OC it.
Whoah hold up! Remember you're not supposed to say anything positive about FX processors despite your positive experience!! Ok just kidding. Over the years I've seen so much hate and vitriol towards them in tech forums and youtube tech videos and I never understood it. Were intel processors better than them in gaming? Sure but not nearly enough to garner the hate. Plus they were always cheaper so I think they provided better value. I built a computer for my in-laws using an FX-8320e because it was only $80 at the time. They are still using it to this day with no issues. Phenomenal value!
Any FX is inferior to Intel 2nd gen i7 with OC included...
Their time is over...
defo same happenings with the fx 8350 on gigabyte 990x gaming board 32 gig of ddr 3 and 4 gb rx 550 and it seem to cope with just about anything i chuck at it no isses but i see some much slating of the fx chips im not saying it one of best thing but it hold up very well may do better when i get better gpu
@@dandan1818 It doesn't take that much to push a RX 550...
@@takehirolol5962 For sure but most people had something like 8320 or a locked i3. A 8-Core trashdozer will sill beat Sandy i3 with todays game engines and most likely even the 4c/4t locked cpu.
Yeah the results of LTT felt a bit off. Glad, that you addressed that! :)
The only limitation using to X58 as far as I see is lack of modern CPU instructions, so some games might not even start though I think there aren't that many of them.
PCIE 2.0 and no NVME is a pretty big deal.
0:28
What? Hyperthreading was available on consumer CPUs since Pentium 4 days.
X58 was and is a great platform. I first had a I7 920 in a Asus rampage 2 extreme oc to 4 ghz and later at i7 980x in a Asus X58 premium board oc to 4.4 ghz and up to 4.75 ghz for benchmark runs and I even pair it with a gtx 1080 TI that ran greater that exspexted and I got nvme ssd to boot up and work that use for 3 years. But after 12 years I had to admit defeat last year where I upgraded to a dual system with a Ryzen 5 5600X and a Ryzen 9 5950X cpu. I am not looking back amd miss X58, but yeah it was indeed a long loved and lived system. I was expensive back then. But given how long X58 was relevant, I'd say it was worth every penny spent.
I am curious how you got an nvme to boot on a bios that doesn't allow it to do so?
I only recently stopped using my x5675 and P6x58d-e with 6 x 2gb, which I still have, because I got an RTX3080 so I moved to a1680 V3 on an Asus X99-A.USB3.1 with 4 x 8gb, runs Metro Exodus, and CP2077 buttery smooth 👍
Linus hasn't personally owned or built an X58 system since it was his daily driver. You work with them at least Monthly. Are you surprised mistakes were made?
Linus's company makes 8 figures and employs dozens. Misleading the public when you have those kinds of resources and that kind of reach isn't cool.
@@Bynming Agreed 💯
@@Bynming so true. He isn't just some dude in his basement.
Linus is just a figure head now, he has people that get the content for him. I stopped listening to him years ago as he really is no longer relevant. Gamers Nexus are always showing him up and Jayz Two Cents is more on the pulse of whats new and relevant. thats my 2 cents. Keep up the good work X58 can still rock at 1080p for budget gamers.
there's also the diffrence in memory bandwidth between the w3670 and the x5670 that you didn't mention...
Could it be as well , that LTT didn't do what we all would do and didn't run inspectre to disable any CPU performance hits from meltdown and spectre fixes lol
yea i tough that the same
@@danielivanov930 Like literally, it's one of the first things I do on earlier gen systems, no real downside for the average home consumer, as to take advantage of the exploits you kinda need local access anyway lol
Almost certain that he didn't do this, but i doubt that would account for the terrible performance he was getting. I think Bryan has a comparison on his channel.
Where can one go for specific help or information of x58 systems and OC'ing? You have inspired me to reinvigorate my old i7-920 system for my kids' first gaming PC. I suspect I'm going to have questions so a relatively active board/forum maybe?
Wonder what board they used? i had a few X58s. I had some stabilty isses with a P6X58-D. Ive held on to my R3E with a W3690 installed.
the first ddr3 mobo is gigabyte x38T-DQ6 in 2007 and first Hyper threading cpu is intel pen4 northwood in 2004 and prescott in 2005
i just bought an X5675 last week (20 USD), replacing the i7 920 in my chinese aliexpress board (cannot overclock), but still have turbo boost to 3,2Ghz.... (Cinebench R15 696 Pts) Purposing it to be an office pc... 6c/12t .... TDP 95W ... 30 dollar HSF Cooler keep it below 70C in full load... idle 37C... not bad and i'm very happy about it...
have a feeling that RAM being faster with 3 sticks out of 6 also applies to X399 Threadripper boards as i struggle with RAM speed with all 8 slots populated
pre haswell cpus don't have AVX so some games (like HZD) will not run at all, but even a i5-46XX is a good enough CPU if You have a decent videocard