I like to believe that all this story occurs before the "You wouldn't get it" scene and this is just his imagination so his death would be less worthy than his life and that could be his joke, his life being meaningless and the psychiatrist doesn't comprehend it
I don't think it was a nod to Heath's Joker. I believe it was a big fuck you to Christopher, especially with everything that has been reported on how Todd wouldn't listen to anyone and just went and did his thing.
I reaaaaaally wanna hear Philips' take on why he thought including the SA was necessary, especially after the revelation that he was similarly abused as a child....and why he implied that what happened de-Jokered him, because there are some nasty unfortunate implications in that one.
My interpretation of the ending: Maybe the court explosion wasn't real. Or it doesn't matter if it was real. The "explosion" signifies the exact moment when the Joker is rejected and exorcised out of Arthur, the moment when he is framed as guilty. What happens next? The make up is gone, he leaves the courtroom and meets the "joker", embodied outside of him through a fan. He enters the car with him, but ultimately runs away from his old persona that he can't stand anymore. After the staircase scene (that might be real or not, maybe she really did it in the previous scene?) we see arthur back to prison, where he meets the new Joker in the corridor, who ends up killing him. In conclusion: Arthur exorcises the joker out of his body, tries to run always from him outside the court, but ultimately the Joker finds arthur through a new, more appropriate vessel, and takes revenge on him, for rejecting him on the first place. The "true" joker laughs hysterically on the background, but arthur has a happy ending, he dies with a true smile on his face, a human smile. The joker was exorcised and he can die as a human being, with a genuine Arthur smile. Thats my take.
To say that the first movie never intended for Arthur to be the true Joker is blatant revisionism against the audiences viewing experience. In the beginning of the movie, it was clear that Arthur was not the Joker. The media takes his act of self defense and sensationalizes this impulsive act of violence as if it were a grander scheme of a demented, borderline revolutionary criminal. But the audience knows that’s not the case for the entire first acts of the movie. Here’s the important thing that the movie makes clear though; Arthur begins to embrace this glorified image of himself. The movie is not about some guy pretending to be Joker; this theoretical narrative through-line wouldn’t receive any real pay off until the second movie, which the director stated he had no plans for. By the end of the original movie, there was no hint that anyone was being set up to take his place. Sure he has a small army of devoted followers, but they’re a collective of mindless followers who appropriate Arthur’s message in order to lash out for their own problems. No one is singled out as somehow inheriting the mantle behind his message. Arthur IS the message. His followers are just more mindlessly cruel drones who further prove his point. The original movie was a cautionary tale against the media sensationalizing regular people’s violent outbursts and society’s demonization of said outsiders; all of this combined CREATES the fictional monsters that they were so scared of. After his following of clueless zealots temporarily free him from the police car, he accepts his downward spiral and commits to a path to become something bigger than himself, bigger than what society feared him to be. He’s not really a supervillain, but he is clearly too dangerous to just brush off as a normal criminal. You may think it’s presumptuous for the audience to assume that he’s truly becoming the Joker, but remember how the movie started and what happens in the final scene. Arthur started out as a bumbling victim of a cruel society. And by the end, he becomes a gleeful agent of spreading even more suffering in that society; he somehow manages to kill a completely innocent Dr at his asylum without any reasonable access to weapons, escapes the hall, and manages to evade security, albeit temporarily. It’s impressive in the way that it feels like a small-scale version of a scheme that Comic Joker would effortlessly pull off any given day. And that’s exactly what the movie needed. We all know that by the end of the original movie, Arthur is not the Comic Accurate Joker. He is slowly becoming the Joker of THIS movie’s universe; a universe of lower stakes, personal stories, realistic character motivations/ origin stories, grueling consequences, and most importantly, NO over the top, fantastical elements. It’s not 100 percent realistic, but it has a definitive style that mimics reality with very minimal flourishes of exaggerated social commentary. In the universe of The Joker, if any character were capable of pulling off anything remotely close to what Comic Joker does, they would feel extremely out of place in these movies. Hell, even Heath Ledger’s Dark Knight Joker wouldn’t fit in this universe; his aesthetic is so striking and his plans are so intricate and so perfectly executed that no character in the Joker universe could come close to replicating anything similar to him. He would just look silly in a slow burn, low stakes, character study like Joker. So pardon me if most people found the “real Joker” out of place in the second movie. This caricature of mental illness walks in with barely 2 minutes of screen time and the audience is somehow supposed to know that he is the perfect vessel to represent Arthur’s image of the Joker? He even carved a smile onto his face as if he were in the Jeff the Killer Creepy Pasta written by a 12 year old. All of a sudden, we’re supposed to believe that Comic/ Cartoon Accurate Joker is going to exist in this universe?
I thought about it too, until it was shown that Harley was talking to Arthur's lawyer and also a security guard says "no touching" while she's kissing Arthur in his cell. So yea, she's real.
The Glasgow smile at the end is actually even worse when you look into it some more. During production of the first movie Christopher Nolan had pleaded with them not to have their Joker give himself a Glasgow smile like Heath Ledger's in Dark Knight. They promised to respect this but did a complete 180 with this movie and spat in Nolan's face since as he was no longer associated with WB anymore so they didn't care about what he wanted, it was a deliberate move on their part.
There is a theory which says that the person who killed Artur at the end was the joker of the dark knight But honestly they shouldn't had been worried about connecting this film to dark knight joker they should have kept both as a separate story they made this so that it would eventually connect to the dark knight joker if they didn't care about it to be connected with the dark knight joker then it would have had been a better story
@@mrheadcannon yeah that's what I'm trying to say at the end of joker 1 it was clear that Artur has now totally become joker but in part 2 they make looks like Artur has not transformed into joker so that it can be eventually connected to the dark knight if they had not focus on making it connected to the dark knight and had made it as the actual joker 2 where we had seen the insane and mad Artur whom we had seen at the end of joker 1 it would have become a better story
@ripusudanchakradhari1129 He's trying to say that this movie isn't meant to connect to the Dark Knight at all, only borrowing from it. They're still separate universes
Apparently there are two alternate endings. One showed Joker and Harley dancing on the stairs outside the courthouse with people cheering for them. But Phillips didn't have test screenings, so we never got test audience reactions.
I agree, Alien 3 was so bad, a deeply flawed and badly realized mess with unbelievable studio interference, its a wonder Fincher didn't do himself in, but if you start a movie by betraying the emotional investment of a global audience and spit in their face (the pointless deaths of Hicks and Newt) you can only expect trouble and low audience figures/box office takings :(
It felt like an apology letter for something that didnt need an apology. I would be okay if the movie was about harley doing her own thing and joker being in it for a cameo. Cause theres nothing you could have done with his character other than showing his image spreading and taking new forms while the real guy is locked away.
they should have had it take place in between the scene when his followers rescue him from the police in the first movie and him eventually being detained again which we literally never see. he's free than in the next shot he's in arkham. have it so that he becomes like their king and goes on a crime spree, that would be the closest this joker would ever get to being like the comic version. this could have been a whole different movie if they did that. it didn't need to be a prison/court room movie could have been about joker leading a revolution.
I was expecting Brendon Gleeson's character to meet his end but he doesn't which is weird as everyone who wronged Arthur in the first movie met their end.
To be honest, I've always thought it was incredibly stupid (and a first World problem as well) when creators got upset because "the audience didn't understand their work the way they, the creators, THINK we, the audience, should understand it." The truth is that every work of art, once exposed to the world, ceases to be the property of the creator, takes on a life of its own and receives interpretations from the audience that often differ from those of the creator of the work (something that is natural, since different people have different perspectives). C'est la vie. Therefore, getting upset about this is whining and, in the case of people who want to indoctrinate the public, it also indicates a lack of character.
I would not mind a musical superhero film. I love Disney films like Nightmare Before Christmas or Frozen. I love super hero films like Deadpool and Wolverine or Endgame. But to make a musical aspect work it needs to match the tone. Batman Brave And The Bold was a love letter to the Silver Age comics. An era known for beeing cheesy so the Music Maister episode made them actually work. Heck several episodes had a song. Many bangers. Birds of Prey and Aquaman's Roysing Song of Heroism were both great. Smile Darn Ya Smile too. But a grounded and serious settinf just does not fit in mixing musicals and superheroes
yeah id also love a lighthearted super hero musical hope this movie doesn't make that never happen it could be really fun if done right you just can't do it in the most grounded comic book movie universe ever. Joker is literally more grounded than any Nolan movie ever was its barely a comic book movie you can't make that a musical
My biggest problem with the movie is that he starts already regressed back into Arthur. In contradiction to true ending of the first one , where it shows him still acting like the Joker even in Arkham. The movie doesnt show The very thing it wants to deconstruct
Honestly when i watch this movie, i was expecting a new phase for this version of joker. I was hoping that the ending was the start of joker and harley quin to basically be in their modern selfs and have a batman cameo but i guess the directors dont care for the fans
It was super complicated to connect this directly to some version of Batman, because Bruce was still a kid in the previous movie, but at least they could've given us a good Joker and Harley dynamic. Glad to know I'm not the only one who wanted to see Joker and Harley being... well, Joker and Harley 😂
Let me lay out the plot of Joker 3 here. Three pieces in the finale. 1. Joker is in a coma at the hospital and Holly is with him the whole time. Meanwhile, the new joker is rising. (If John Wick doesn't die in John Wick 3, I see no reason that Joker dies in Joker 2.) 2. Joker wakes up and starts the rehabilitation program, with help from Holly for sure. Meanwhile, the new joker is taking over the city. (This is the best recovery program since Rocky 3.) 3. Joker reclaims the crown and dies with Holly together. (Remember Caesar?!)
Ending? The whole movie from start to finish is considered to be completely shit by anyone who was unfortunate enough to witness it. Not me. As soon as I heard it was a musical with Lady Gaga I knew it would be trash and that I would never watch it.
a musical could be good just not one with the grounded dark realistic 2019 Joker. like bro you make Ant Man a musical, you make Guardians a musical both could totally work if done right. NOT JOKER at least not this version
@@evenhartwick4422 For me, I couldn't ever watch any musical. Nor could I listen to Lady Gaga. I also don't like Marvel movies. The Joker is a character I like though. Jack Nicholson was by far my favorite on screen Joker.
Yeah, apparently Todd Philips was tweaking that people liked the first movie, so he made the 2nd one bad to tell the Dc fans that they aren't supposed to like his Joker adaptation.
Unless they followed up this horrible movie with some horrible takes and comments, I don't see a reason to believe that this takes place in Nolan's universe. I think they said that this is a completely separate universe years ago when Joker 1 came out, they just wanted a solo Joker movie without mixing it up in all the multi-movie universes. I don't know much about the "mouth-cut" Jokers in the comics, but Heath made the mouth cuts extremely popular. As a matter of fact, I always thought every Joker had cuts and not paint. Cuts on the mouth were the basic features of Joker for me growing up. So I don't think it's that deep when it comes to that dude cutting his mouth at the end of the movie, it's such a popular trope when it comes to the character nowadays.
Bro I haven’t even made it 30 minutes into the movie and it already looks so bad, it makes The Flash movie look good, and that one is garbage. At least Flash actually has substance and badass parts and after 3 minutes of bearded Michael Keaton, actually respects Batman’s character. This film has none of that.
Bro the movie had so much potential i get it that it is complicated to make a sequel but there a legit many good ways they could have went like joker becoming more and more crazy and even if they wanted to make it logical ish they could have made it like a movie where joker finds purpose as joker and try to make a super hero for himself, etc etc and i get it that these things are super hard to pull off but they did pull it off in joker 1
Remember this: America loves a hero to love, but they also love a villain to hate and in this war torn world we live in, hate is so much easier to find and feel than love. Sad, but true.
Of course it’s not a satisfying ending to any of the characters. That’s what is the best of the film. Because it shows us the breaking of all the stereotypes we are sticked to in movies. Joker Folie A Deux is actually a masterpiece of the sickness in the environment. An exploration to the rise and fall of one of the best characters created by the same society and killed by the same society. In my opinion it was a splendid film, with a heartbreaking ending. I believe that Todd Phillips would rather lose fans and money in order to make this movie, rather than giving the people what they always wanted. Meaning, he would rather risk everything than allowing to disrespect his own work
Who is to say this isn't all in his head .... while he is looking at Harley for the first time ☺.. having a fantasy while looking at a pretty girl ... we all done it ;)
I always believed in the idea of not making a sequel as Joker didn't deserve it, unfortunately it's done, and we're seeing the results since the movie came out, which has had lots of criticism.
Agree with the lack of continuity from guy implicated as HL’s joker in the final scene and dark knight. It was a cheap unaccomplished trick that was never gonna make sense. Same with Dent too. Are we to believe that Harvey Dent Sr has a son who ends up with the exact same injuries? It’s a sign of a frustrated screen writer trying to tie things together without being thorough and of course had no intention of doing a sequel in the first place. If he had, J1 would’ve been set in the mid- late 90’s. However… I don’t have a problem with the over arch of Fleck’s character. We all knew he was never gonna be the criminal mastermind Joker when Batman enters the scene… it was still interesting enough watching his downfall in my opinion. But I guess details count to the many fanboys out there. I think this film will be a lesson to many film makers of the future before thinking about doing a sequel to what many consider a masterpiece of cinema. That is of course if 7 billion of us are still alive in the years to come. I have my doubts.
Nah, with all the backlash and criticisms.. todd will say that joker imagined the ending, it represents arthur's death as he fully embraces joker, again, finally. You'll see. And then he'll (todd) try to beg the fans for return.
Well it nice to see you didn’t understand the film he was never joker she was never Harley. But all of us should take a stand against directors and studios purposely selling bad movies. Shame on you WB for crapping on our franchise sounds to me all of us joker fans should boycott Warner brothers
That's the problem with this movie: bad deconstruction and it's comic-inaccurate! A proper superhero deconstruction makes wussy characters badass! This one turned a badass supervillain into a wuss! The purpose of "dark and edgy" Batman movies is to correct the campy '60s Batman TV show, starring Adam West as Batman, and Cesare Romero as the Joker. The first movie was better at this, with its realism, social satire of ableism, classism, and revenge plot. Joker 2 is not comic book accurate, because it shows Arthur Fleck reforming, being rejected by Harley Quinn after a fling, due to disappointing her as a role model, and getting killed before ever meeting his archenemy, Batman. In most Batman media, the Joker is incorrigible, abused Quinn for years before dumping her, and survived many apparent deaths while fighting Batman. Even Joker (2019) deviates from the comics canon in two major ways: 1) Arthur is probably intellectually disabled and accidentally starts the riot, when his comic book counterpart is a super-genius with advanced technology. For the above reason, this is a bad deconstruction of a supervillain, because he's fated to oppose Batman as an archenemy someday, requiring ability equality. 2) Arthur is a former party clown who wears greasepaint clown makeup as the Joker, while the comics version was dyed white with green hair by toxic waste runoff in a chemical accident at a playing card factory during his first Batman encounter. This change to the movie version is acceptable for a deconstruction, because the original origin was implausible and campy! A good comic-accurate superhero movie is like the comic book, unless the film version is better in some way, such as more figure-flattering costumes, more plausible character motives, more realistic world-building, etc.
I'm still in shock at this movie was trash, I was just talking about how great the first one was. Successful, but the studios push for the next cash grab, is being too careless with the consumers
And in my opinion with the new joker clip at the end they are trying to make us think that person becomes a heath ledger type joker, I’m not believing it. Bad enough that they’ve destroyed the Phoenix Joker. Leave the Heath joker multiple origin story as he told them in the Dark Knight
00:04 "Ruins the continuity" Man, what continuity? It has already been established that it wasn't meant to connect with TDK anything. So that's either bait or an involuntary contradiction
Joker 1 didn’t even do *That* well. This was merely a foolish cash grab. Between making it a musical, adding Harley, and making Lady Friggin Gaga play her of all people 😑
I thought Joker 2 was a decent movie. Also, it wasn't supposed to make sense because it's just like what he said at the end of the 1st one, which he said, "You wouldn't get it" Also the first movie is supposed to represent tragedy while the other one would be a comedic or less serious.
If the film is that bad, im not even gonna bother watching it, especially considering it didn't need to exist in the first place and the first joker movie had a perfect ending.
EXCUSE! Some people STOP using timeline to justify things cannot happen! The timeline does not matter. All U need to know in COMIC books universe there are MULTIPLE The Jokers and Harley is obsess with The Joker. YES! The dude who killed Arthur could be Jack or HEATH version of the NEW The Joker AND Harley falls in love with “ those” Joker”. The end / not that complicated.The Joker 2 goal was to remind people Arthur is not DC The Joker / fight Batman . Jack and Health version is that DC The Joker & Harley Quinn moved on with them.
Todd Philips is about to get blacklisted by Hollywood after this disaster, no one is willing to hire a dude that is capable of destroying a franchise on purpose just because he hates the fans and some other dumb reasons.
while i do agree he doesn't like the fans of the first i think it was more so him just trolling the audience. he built a true master piece with the first movie and i just think he thought it would be personally funny to absolutely destroy it. its like if De Vinci set the Moana Lisa on fire just for his own personal lols
I don’t think the movie was that bad not even bad at all but I get we’re all the frustration came from but I loved the ending were the new joker killed the old one I just wished they used a better actor
Arthur getting the death penalty doesn't really make sense when you think about it. He would most likely go into a mental hospital, not prison. He has a history of being mentally unwell. Judging from his crimes, he killed 2 people in self defense yet murdered 3 people. This would most likely get him 20 years in prison. Yet the lowest that would go is 10 years, if he was deemed healthy/cured or if his doctor was harly Quinn who would support Arthur in saying that he's mentally well and able to rejoin society. Him getting the death penalty makes no sense, the doctors trying the push the narrative that he has 2 personalities and joker is just another part of him also doesn't make sense, or that they try to make the audience believe that when we know from the first movie Arthur was just being himself. Bottom line is the movie was bad
it might gain a cult fan base but nah it does to much harm to the original for it to really get reappraised in the future. in fact i don't know how the original will even be looked back on it seems this movie is even making people turn on the original
plot twist: it turns out the whole movie is his imagination
it would've been so cool if Harley was just in his imagination and she was never obsessed with him, kinda like the neighbor lady in the first movie
I like to believe that all this story occurs before the "You wouldn't get it" scene and this is just his imagination so his death would be less worthy than his life and that could be his joke, his life being meaningless and the psychiatrist doesn't comprehend it
it was just a funny joke
@@SomeYTguyFor1 knock knock
@@ASRU25 ?
The biggest fumble ever for a sequel. It's legit worse than going from Shrek 2 to Shrek 3.
I'm so glad I never watched Shrek 3 😅
@@mrheadcannon I'm envious of you
Hey Shrek 3 is the best than Joker 2. Don’t let it be hated the same with Spider Man 3
That ending was so disappointing me and had to be the worst flim 👎👎👎
@mrheadcannon well all the shrek movies were good.
I dont care what people think, This film is not canon to the 2019 Joker film in my head
Most people agree with you
Agree
Agreed
Sorry man but being delusional won't help 😢 I hate the movie too but I love the first film. And we can still love the first film together
@@Figuresnottoys
They dont
I noticed that Arthur didn't do his high pitched joker laugh like he did in the first one.
I don't think it was a nod to Heath's Joker. I believe it was a big fuck you to Christopher, especially with everything that has been reported on how Todd wouldn't listen to anyone and just went and did his thing.
Yeah I think the same way
Yes because in Joker 1 Todd was going to have Joker carve the smile into his face but Christopher told him no.
If that's true, then it really was just a petty move against Nolan.@@joshuafult84
0:44
Wow, even Harley dissapointed from the movie.
The character was fine, but her ending was MEH
@@mrheadcannonHonestly Harley is the only good part of the movie.
I liked the opening scene too. I felt it was much more creative than the musical numbers.
Absolutely brutal ending
I'm going to pretend this movie doesn't exist
Same here this movie was absolute dumpster fire and I live same life as you that Joker from 2019 was one and done👏
I reaaaaaally wanna hear Philips' take on why he thought including the SA was necessary, especially after the revelation that he was similarly abused as a child....and why he implied that what happened de-Jokered him, because there are some nasty unfortunate implications in that one.
Seriously, dox and Twitter Todd like he said Kpop sucks.
My interpretation of the ending:
Maybe the court explosion wasn't real. Or it doesn't matter if it was real.
The "explosion" signifies the exact moment when the Joker is rejected and exorcised out of Arthur, the moment when he is framed as guilty.
What happens next? The make up is gone, he leaves the courtroom and meets the "joker", embodied outside of him through a fan. He enters the car with him, but ultimately runs away from his old persona that he can't stand anymore.
After the staircase scene (that might be real or not, maybe she really did it in the previous scene?) we see arthur back to prison, where he meets the new Joker in the corridor, who ends up killing him.
In conclusion: Arthur exorcises the joker out of his body, tries to run always from him outside the court, but ultimately the Joker finds arthur through a new, more appropriate vessel, and takes revenge on him, for rejecting him on the first place.
The "true" joker laughs hysterically on the background, but arthur has a happy ending, he dies with a true smile on his face, a human smile. The joker was exorcised and he can die as a human being, with a genuine Arthur smile.
Thats my take.
ok
To say that the first movie never intended for Arthur to be the true Joker is blatant revisionism against the audiences viewing experience. In the beginning of the movie, it was clear that Arthur was not the Joker. The media takes his act of self defense and sensationalizes this impulsive act of violence as if it were a grander scheme of a demented, borderline revolutionary criminal. But the audience knows that’s not the case for the entire first acts of the movie. Here’s the important thing that the movie makes clear though; Arthur begins to embrace this glorified image of himself.
The movie is not about some guy pretending to be Joker; this theoretical narrative through-line wouldn’t receive any real pay off until the second movie, which the director stated he had no plans for. By the end of the original movie, there was no hint that anyone was being set up to take his place. Sure he has a small army of devoted followers, but they’re a collective of mindless followers who appropriate Arthur’s message in order to lash out for their own problems. No one is singled out as somehow inheriting the mantle behind his message. Arthur IS the message. His followers are just more mindlessly cruel drones who further prove his point.
The original movie was a cautionary tale against the media sensationalizing regular people’s violent outbursts and society’s demonization of said outsiders; all of this combined CREATES the fictional monsters that they were so scared of.
After his following of clueless zealots temporarily free him from the police car, he accepts his downward spiral and commits to a path to become something bigger than himself, bigger than what society feared him to be. He’s not really a supervillain, but he is clearly too dangerous to just brush off as a normal criminal.
You may think it’s presumptuous for the audience to assume that he’s truly becoming the Joker, but remember how the movie started and what happens in the final scene. Arthur started out as a bumbling victim of a cruel society. And by the end, he becomes a gleeful agent of spreading even more suffering in that society; he somehow manages to kill a completely innocent Dr at his asylum without any reasonable access to weapons, escapes the hall, and manages to evade security, albeit temporarily. It’s impressive in the way that it feels like a small-scale version of a scheme that Comic Joker would effortlessly pull off any given day. And that’s exactly what the movie needed.
We all know that by the end of the original movie, Arthur is not the Comic Accurate Joker. He is slowly becoming the Joker of THIS movie’s universe; a universe of lower stakes, personal stories, realistic character motivations/ origin stories, grueling consequences, and most importantly, NO over the top, fantastical elements. It’s not 100 percent realistic, but it has a definitive style that mimics reality with very minimal flourishes of exaggerated social commentary.
In the universe of The Joker, if any character were capable of pulling off anything remotely close to what Comic Joker does, they would feel extremely out of place in these movies. Hell, even Heath Ledger’s Dark Knight Joker wouldn’t fit in this universe; his aesthetic is so striking and his plans are so intricate and so perfectly executed that no character in the Joker universe could come close to replicating anything similar to him. He would just look silly in a slow burn, low stakes, character study like Joker.
So pardon me if most people found the “real Joker” out of place in the second movie. This caricature of mental illness walks in with barely 2 minutes of screen time and the audience is somehow supposed to know that he is the perfect vessel to represent Arthur’s image of the Joker? He even carved a smile onto his face as if he were in the Jeff the Killer Creepy Pasta written by a 12 year old. All of a sudden, we’re supposed to believe that Comic/ Cartoon Accurate Joker is going to exist in this universe?
@@renemartinez3451Wow ur really advanced in the art of English 👌👌👌
Am I the only one who thought that Harley was entirely a hallucination?
I thought about it too, until it was shown that Harley was talking to Arthur's lawyer and also a security guard says "no touching" while she's kissing Arthur in his cell. So yea, she's real.
Yes you are
There is also a scene where we see her shattering the store window and stealing a TV set (Arthur isn't with her in that scene)
@andynowicki4532 and yet we see his neighbor and love interest in the first film independently interacting with her child and Arthur's mother
I considered it being possible but I don't think entirely for reasons
The Glasgow smile at the end is actually even worse when you look into it some more. During production of the first movie Christopher Nolan had pleaded with them not to have their Joker give himself a Glasgow smile like Heath Ledger's in Dark Knight.
They promised to respect this but did a complete 180 with this movie and spat in Nolan's face since as he was no longer associated with WB anymore so they didn't care about what he wanted, it was a deliberate move on their part.
And then the third chapter:
"Somehow Arthur Fleck had returned."
There is a theory which says that the person who killed Artur at the end was the joker of the dark knight
But honestly they shouldn't had been worried about connecting this film to dark knight joker they should have kept both as a separate story they made this so that it would eventually connect to the dark knight joker if they didn't care about it to be connected with the dark knight joker then it would have had been a better story
It was a nod, but the continuity makes no sense. I cover that in the last minutes of the video.
@@mrheadcannon yeah that's what I'm trying to say at the end of joker 1 it was clear that Artur has now totally become joker but in part 2 they make looks like Artur has not transformed into joker so that it can be eventually connected to the dark knight if they had not focus on making it connected to the dark knight and had made it as the actual joker 2 where we had seen the insane and mad Artur whom we had seen at the end of joker 1 it would have become a better story
@ripusudanchakradhari1129 He's trying to say that this movie isn't meant to connect to the Dark Knight at all, only borrowing from it. They're still separate universes
I assumed the person who killed him was a victim's relative or something, but i guess it's a fan?
Either way, just an awful ending
It's just a nod, nothing else.
nothing in this plot makes sense
Apparently there are two alternate endings. One showed Joker and Harley dancing on the stairs outside the courthouse with people cheering for them.
But Phillips didn't have test screenings, so we never got test audience reactions.
I miss my dark Knight era 😢
Nah the penguin is good and the batman franchise as a whole. Just 1 little setback
At least The Batman is great. Let's hope Barry Kheogan's Joker delivers 👌
This movie is not a tragedy but a comedy. I used to think that Arthur was the joker but after watching the movie, I realize that we are the joker 😂
Maybe the real jonkler was in each and everyone of us all along. Absolute cinema
Joker 2 had the worst ending ? Guess what. it had the worst Beginning and middle too ! :)
This is why so many of us hate Alien 3 so much. It has the worst opening ever, and for roughly the same reasons
Except Alien 3 was not actually that bad and had a heroic ending
@@pchtommy1268 No. It was.
@@LukeLovesRose That's just your opinion, it was a great finale to the trilogy
@@pchtommy1268 And that's your warped opinion
I agree, Alien 3 was so bad, a deeply flawed and badly realized mess with unbelievable studio interference, its a wonder Fincher didn't do himself in, but if you start a movie by betraying the emotional investment of a global audience and spit in their face (the pointless deaths of Hicks and Newt) you can only expect trouble and low audience figures/box office takings :(
Joker was purposefully going to the stairs because that’s the way to lee’s apartment
It felt like an apology letter for something that didnt need an apology.
I would be okay if the movie was about harley doing her own thing and joker being in it for a cameo. Cause theres nothing you could have done with his character other than showing his image spreading and taking new forms while the real guy is locked away.
they should have had it take place in between the scene when his followers rescue him from the police in the first movie and him eventually being detained again which we literally never see. he's free than in the next shot he's in arkham. have it so that he becomes like their king and goes on a crime spree, that would be the closest this joker would ever get to being like the comic version. this could have been a whole different movie if they did that. it didn't need to be a prison/court room movie could have been about joker leading a revolution.
Since Taxi Driver doesn't have a sequel, someone at Warner should have made Todd watch Bonnie & Clyde... THAT would have avoided all the problems.
I was expecting Brendon Gleeson's character to meet his end but he doesn't which is weird as everyone who wronged Arthur in the first movie met their end.
Joker Fans: We won't be domesticated. 🃏
To be honest, I've always thought it was incredibly stupid (and a first World problem as well) when creators got upset because "the audience didn't understand their work the way they, the creators, THINK we, the audience, should understand it."
The truth is that every work of art, once exposed to the world, ceases to be the property of the creator, takes on a life of its own and receives interpretations from the audience that often differ from those of the creator of the work (something that is natural, since different people have different perspectives).
C'est la vie. Therefore, getting upset about this is whining and, in the case of people who want to indoctrinate the public, it also indicates a lack of character.
I would not mind a musical superhero film. I love Disney films like Nightmare Before Christmas or Frozen. I love super hero films like Deadpool and Wolverine or Endgame.
But to make a musical aspect work it needs to match the tone. Batman Brave And The Bold was a love letter to the Silver Age comics. An era known for beeing cheesy so the Music Maister episode made them actually work. Heck several episodes had a song. Many bangers. Birds of Prey and Aquaman's Roysing Song of Heroism were both great. Smile Darn Ya Smile too. But a grounded and serious settinf just does not fit in mixing musicals and superheroes
yeah id also love a lighthearted super hero musical hope this movie doesn't make that never happen it could be really fun if done right you just can't do it in the most grounded comic book movie universe ever. Joker is literally more grounded than any Nolan movie ever was its barely a comic book movie you can't make that a musical
My biggest problem with the movie is that he starts already regressed back into Arthur. In contradiction to true ending of the first one , where it shows him still acting like the Joker even in Arkham.
The movie doesnt show The very thing it wants to deconstruct
Honestly when i watch this movie, i was expecting a new phase for this version of joker. I was hoping that the ending was the start of joker and harley quin to basically be in their modern selfs and have a batman cameo but i guess the directors dont care for the fans
It was super complicated to connect this directly to some version of Batman, because Bruce was still a kid in the previous movie, but at least they could've given us a good Joker and Harley dynamic. Glad to know I'm not the only one who wanted to see Joker and Harley being... well, Joker and Harley 😂
And this just means that the movie was made for nothing else but money and sticking the middle finger at fans
@Jaez4eva hahaha i glad the movie is a box office disaster
I hope they learn, that is the fans who give their money and sucess
Let me lay out the plot of Joker 3 here. Three pieces in the finale.
1. Joker is in a coma at the hospital and Holly is with him the whole time. Meanwhile, the new joker is rising. (If John Wick doesn't die in John Wick 3, I see no reason that Joker dies in Joker 2.)
2. Joker wakes up and starts the rehabilitation program, with help from Holly for sure. Meanwhile, the new joker is taking over the city. (This is the best recovery program since Rocky 3.)
3. Joker reclaims the crown and dies with Holly together. (Remember Caesar?!)
Who's Holly ? You mean Harley ? hehe ;)
@@pikeflowed Alight! That is a terrible finale because even the leading character's name is wrong.
Since we are not intellectuals we don’t understand joker 2 the musical.
Ending? The whole movie from start to finish is considered to be completely shit by anyone who was unfortunate enough to witness it. Not me. As soon as I heard it was a musical with Lady Gaga I knew it would be trash and that I would never watch it.
a musical could be good just not one with the grounded dark realistic 2019 Joker. like bro you make Ant Man a musical, you make Guardians a musical both could totally work if done right. NOT JOKER at least not this version
@@evenhartwick4422 For me, I couldn't ever watch any musical. Nor could I listen to Lady Gaga. I also don't like Marvel movies. The Joker is a character I like though. Jack Nicholson was by far my favorite on screen Joker.
misa kills herself after death notes ending…
I didn’t see this movie because word of mouth but do you mean to tell me.. they made 2 movies about a character that wasn’t the character?
Yeah, apparently Todd Philips was tweaking that people liked the first movie, so he made the 2nd one bad to tell the Dc fans that they aren't supposed to like his Joker adaptation.
Unless they followed up this horrible movie with some horrible takes and comments, I don't see a reason to believe that this takes place in Nolan's universe. I think they said that this is a completely separate universe years ago when Joker 1 came out, they just wanted a solo Joker movie without mixing it up in all the multi-movie universes. I don't know much about the "mouth-cut" Jokers in the comics, but Heath made the mouth cuts extremely popular. As a matter of fact, I always thought every Joker had cuts and not paint. Cuts on the mouth were the basic features of Joker for me growing up. So I don't think it's that deep when it comes to that dude cutting his mouth at the end of the movie, it's such a popular trope when it comes to the character nowadays.
Also, the deaths of Thomas and Martha Wayne in Batman Begins is different from in the first Joker.
That's because the Joker is based on Gwinplaine, a silent movie character with a Chelsea/Glasgow Grin/Smile, and protagonist in "The Man Who Laughs."
I hope WB can regroup
So we can get a better
Joker 3 or 4
This movie sucks.
Bro I haven’t even made it 30 minutes into the movie and it already looks so bad, it makes The Flash movie look good, and that one is garbage. At least Flash actually has substance and badass parts and after 3 minutes of bearded Michael Keaton, actually respects Batman’s character.
This film has none of that.
Dookie shitty dogwater movie
Prays it gets unreleased and deleted
1:39 doen't misa kill herself in the anime? I'm sure she does!!
She commits suicide because she used the shinigami eyes twice so her life was cut short
Bro the movie had so much potential i get it that it is complicated to make a sequel but there a legit many good ways they could have went like joker becoming more and more crazy and even if they wanted to make it logical ish they could have made it like a movie where joker finds purpose as joker and try to make a super hero for himself, etc etc and i get it that these things are super hard to pull off but they did pull it off in joker 1
Misa Amano is one of the most tragic characters of fiction. Death note is awesome
Never had been my favorite Joker...
Heath ledger is the goat (Also rip)
@@judeMcNally-fe2rc most people would agree with you including me
@@judeMcNally-fe2rcno screw him , phoenix is the best the joker
Phoenix is the best joker
@@Cousinbiddy1 Who the hell let you cook.
Remember this: America loves a hero to love, but they also love a villain to hate and in this war torn world we live in, hate is so much easier to find and feel than love. Sad, but true.
Joker 2: i can't believe i have the worst ending ever 😢
MHA and JJK : first time?
Still suffering from ptsd due to mha ending
@@istalkghosts497 What's MHA? or JJK? Why is everything acronyms?
@goatwarrior3570 mha stands for My Hero Academia and JJK stands for Jujutsu Kaisen
@@istalkghosts497 Thank you :)
Game of thrones: rookies
Of course it’s not a satisfying ending to any of the characters. That’s what is the best of the film. Because it shows us the breaking of all the stereotypes we are sticked to in movies. Joker Folie A Deux is actually a masterpiece of the sickness in the environment. An exploration to the rise and fall of one of the best characters created by the same society and killed by the same society. In my opinion it was a splendid film, with a heartbreaking ending. I believe that Todd Phillips would rather lose fans and money in order to make this movie, rather than giving the people what they always wanted. Meaning, he would rather risk everything than allowing to disrespect his own work
Worst sequel ever after Speed 2
Thank you for doing the God's work.
Arthur Flek is the Weeper , he even matches the appearance and background story of the villain who inspired Joker
Ahhh its all your opinion. Joker 2 was good.
,good film.
If You Pause The Film While He Was Going Up The Stairs You’ll Notice Harley Wasn’t Even There….Don’t Know If That Was Intentional Or Just A Fuck Up…
Excellent job on this shitshow.
the thing is there was no new joker, just a phycopath, arthur was an icon to the people
Misa doesnt leave town.
She kills herself on Feb 4th.
Who is to say this isn't all in his head .... while he is looking at Harley for the first time ☺.. having a fantasy while looking at a pretty girl ... we all done it ;)
Agreed that’s why I’m doing a rewrite of Joker 2
I always believed in the idea of not making a sequel as Joker didn't deserve it, unfortunately it's done, and we're seeing the results since the movie came out, which has had lots of criticism.
Even though I love the hangover Trilogy Todd Phillips made two movies the same just different location so it doesn't surprise me that this bombed
Agree with the lack of continuity from guy implicated as HL’s joker in the final scene and dark knight. It was a cheap unaccomplished trick that was never gonna make sense. Same with Dent too. Are we to believe that Harvey Dent Sr has a son who ends up with the exact same injuries?
It’s a sign of a frustrated screen writer trying to tie things together without being thorough and of course had no intention of doing a sequel in the first place.
If he had, J1 would’ve been set in the mid- late 90’s.
However… I don’t have a problem with the over arch of Fleck’s character. We all knew he was never gonna be the criminal mastermind Joker when Batman enters the scene… it was still interesting enough watching his downfall in my opinion. But I guess details count to the many fanboys out there.
I think this film will be a lesson to many film makers of the future before thinking about doing a sequel to what many consider a masterpiece of cinema. That is of course if 7 billion of us are still alive in the years to come.
I have my doubts.
Actually Joker is not a single character he's state of mind.
Nah, with all the backlash and criticisms.. todd will say that joker imagined the ending, it represents arthur's death as he fully embraces joker, again, finally. You'll see. And then he'll (todd) try to beg the fans for return.
I took it the random guy is the real joker who will go on to face off with Batman.
Junkler realized that the real bches were us to the hairy bears all along, absolutist cinema 🤚😔🤚
Well it nice to see you didn’t understand the film he was never joker she was never Harley. But all of us should take a stand against directors and studios purposely selling bad movies. Shame on you WB for crapping on our franchise sounds to me all of us joker fans should boycott Warner brothers
That's the problem with this movie: bad deconstruction and it's comic-inaccurate! A proper superhero deconstruction makes wussy characters badass! This one turned a badass supervillain into a wuss! The purpose of "dark and edgy" Batman movies is to correct the campy '60s Batman TV show, starring Adam West as Batman, and Cesare Romero as the Joker. The first movie was better at this, with its realism, social satire of ableism, classism, and revenge plot. Joker 2 is not comic book accurate, because it shows Arthur Fleck reforming, being rejected by Harley Quinn after a fling, due to disappointing her as a role model, and getting killed before ever meeting his archenemy, Batman. In most Batman media, the Joker is incorrigible, abused Quinn for years before dumping her, and survived many apparent deaths while fighting Batman. Even Joker (2019) deviates from the comics canon in two major ways: 1) Arthur is probably intellectually disabled and accidentally starts the riot, when his comic book counterpart is a super-genius with advanced technology. For the above reason, this is a bad deconstruction of a supervillain, because he's fated to oppose Batman as an archenemy someday, requiring ability equality. 2) Arthur is a former party clown who wears greasepaint clown makeup as the Joker, while the comics version was dyed white with green hair by toxic waste runoff in a chemical accident at a playing card factory during his first Batman encounter. This change to the movie version is acceptable for a deconstruction, because the original origin was implausible and campy! A good comic-accurate superhero movie is like the comic book, unless the film version is better in some way, such as more figure-flattering costumes, more plausible character motives, more realistic world-building, etc.
Don't mind me. I'm just a Frenchman watching English-speaking videos, just to know how Americans mess up the pronounciation of "Folie à deux"
I'm still in shock at this movie was trash, I was just talking about how great the first one was. Successful, but the studios push for the next cash grab, is being too careless with the consumers
And in my opinion with the new joker clip at the end they are trying to make us think that person becomes a heath ledger type joker, I’m not believing it. Bad enough that they’ve destroyed the Phoenix Joker. Leave the Heath joker multiple origin story as he told them in the Dark Knight
It's much worse than the ending in Luc Besson's The Messenger: The Story of Joan of Arc.
00:04 "Ruins the continuity"
Man, what continuity? It has already been established that it wasn't meant to connect with TDK anything. So that's either bait or an involuntary contradiction
It ruins its own continuity
Harley being the one to kill Arther would have been a better ending
Joker 1 didn’t even do *That* well. This was merely a foolish cash grab. Between making it a musical, adding Harley, and making Lady Friggin Gaga play her of all people 😑
The film wouldn’t have been that bad, but the ending ruined it
Guess his death made less sense than his life 💀
I thought Joker 2 was a decent movie. Also, it wasn't supposed to make sense because it's just like what he said at the end of the 1st one, which he said, "You wouldn't get it" Also the first movie is supposed to represent tragedy while the other one would be a comedic or less serious.
Why am i happy when you mention death note anime
In the manga misa committed suicide after light dies
If the film is that bad, im not even gonna bother watching it, especially considering it didn't need to exist in the first place and the first joker movie had a perfect ending.
bruce wayne was in the first movie and everyone forgot 😂
Wow😢
EXCUSE! Some people STOP using timeline to justify things cannot happen! The timeline does not matter. All U need to know in COMIC books universe there are MULTIPLE The Jokers and Harley is obsess with The Joker. YES! The dude who killed Arthur could be Jack or HEATH version of the NEW The Joker AND Harley falls in love with “ those” Joker”. The end / not that complicated.The Joker 2 goal was to remind people Arthur is not DC The Joker / fight Batman . Jack and Health version is that DC The Joker & Harley Quinn moved on with them.
Todd Philips is about to get blacklisted by Hollywood after this disaster, no one is willing to hire a dude that is capable of destroying a franchise on purpose just because he hates the fans and some other dumb reasons.
while i do agree he doesn't like the fans of the first i think it was more so him just trolling the audience. he built a true master piece with the first movie and i just think he thought it would be personally funny to absolutely destroy it. its like if De Vinci set the Moana Lisa on fire just for his own personal lols
I don’t think the movie was that bad not even bad at all but I get we’re all the frustration came from but I loved the ending were the new joker killed the old one I just wished they used a better actor
Arthur getting the death penalty doesn't really make sense when you think about it. He would most likely go into a mental hospital, not prison.
He has a history of being mentally unwell. Judging from his crimes, he killed 2 people in self defense yet murdered 3 people. This would most likely get him 20 years in prison.
Yet the lowest that would go is 10 years, if he was deemed healthy/cured or if his doctor was harly Quinn who would support Arthur in saying that he's mentally well and able to rejoin society.
Him getting the death penalty makes no sense, the doctors trying the push the narrative that he has 2 personalities and joker is just another part of him also doesn't make sense, or that they try to make the audience believe that when we know from the first movie Arthur was just being himself.
Bottom line is the movie was bad
The all movie is the words.
Yeah but all of this is why it's Good
Nice vid
Thanks! 👍
Misa killed herself i refuse to talk about the shity joker 2
I wish joker won tbh
This movie’s ending sucks indeed, but it’s far from the worse movie ending ever. That title goes to The Devil Inside.
I just see Arthar die not the Joker 😊😊😊
In realtà viene fatto capire che segue Arthur attentamente
No because fleck was never The Joker
Me heseing your altwrnative ending with harley becoming joker.
Hey dude you are suppose to have a better scene not make it worse than already is .
anyone here
This movie looks terrible.
People hates x - men but People loves only wolverine & deadpool only in x men
W vid
The movie was great. The problem is your brains are all cooked from Marvel slop.
Joker 2 will be recognised as a good film in a decade or two, the way that no one liked Tank Girl or Batman Returns when they first came out.
No
Nah
nein
it might gain a cult fan base but nah it does to much harm to the original for it to really get reappraised in the future. in fact i don't know how the original will even be looked back on it seems this movie is even making people turn on the original
joker 2 is so overhated