I think this really was the genius of it. Making joker fans in the movie and audiences alike abandon Arthur. Both did'n t care for him, they only wanted the Joker. It was a logical continuation of the story. Arthur was a man-child, an incel living with his mom, having no life experience, having a brain injury and most likely what they called "low IQ" in Joker 2. How should Arthur ever become this genius clown prince of crime everybody wanted to see. Almost sounds like... a delusion.
@@monikaengelsfeld686 oh absolutely. In The Dark Knight, Heath Ledger’s Joker is incredibly smart. He’s an insane monster but he’s also a genius, and that’s what makes him so scary. Heath’s Joker would laugh at Arthur and kick his ass. Arthur never could’ve been the clown prince of crime. Even after seeing the first film, I struggled to picture a world where Arthur would become the Joker from the comics, it was never about that.
The beginning definitely happened to me, I saw this about 3 weeks ago and it still hasn’t left my mind, definitely need to give it another watch, I personally give it a 7/10
You know, I did see Joker (2019) movie before this, but it was a long time ago and didn't remember much about it. But I did see Joker 2, and liked it on it's own. And hey, if you don't care about the Joker and Harley's character, (which is understandable seeing that these are completely new takes on the two) it could act as an interesting perspective on mental health. I know that the scenes where he was crying and laughing sure as hell made me cry
@@Sonicspeeed35 right, it’s a completely unique and different interpretation, and I don’t have an issue with that. Like I said in the video, I’d much rather see something like this than just another generic superhero movie going through the corporate conveyer belt of content.
Personally, I really didn't like it, but after this I can see why people like it and I think that's ok. I'm happy people are able to find qualities in it where I couldn't. I do like the movie mildly more after having watched this cause you pointed out a couple things I hadn't noticed or thought about until you mentioned them.
for me this movie hit me at the perfect time in my life, just like the first one did, I would say both are 10/10 but I actually think Joker 2 is better and might be my favorite movie of all time.
@@lunarlad8075 I love that. I hope you’re able to be loud and proud about it, and if anyone bullies you, just know that none of their words matter. I want to rewatch it, I think I said in the video that I might like it even more a second time. It’s still a movie that I think about a lot.
Tod Phillips’s story is the origin of the joker symbol. Which is probably how a supper villain would manifest in the real world. You could do something similar with Batman. Bruce Wane becomes I vengeful vigilante because of the trauma he experienced has a kid and he has a hatred for anyone that plays a apart in the joker movement.
@@bennconner1195 For sure. Todd Phillips said he’s done making DC films though, so I don’t see that happening, especially with how poorly received this one was critically and financially. I think that’s fine, it ended in a good place.
Cut out all the musical shit and it wasn't a bad movie LOL I just watched it and fast forwarded through all the music and I actually liked it. The idea of the ending being Heath Ledger's Joker is kind of cool
Great movie that bunch of people shit on to feel cool because they read a review somewhere and cant formulate thier own opinion. Film required a level of maturity, empathy and an attention span people these days sorely lack.
@@o-shawnspecific80 I had a friend who didn’t like it but he was COMPLETELY reasonable and cool about it. He’s also very intelligent and isn’t against weird movies, it’s just that this one didn’t work for him and he had a lot of good reasons why. Unfortunately those people seem rare, especially on the internet. I hate the echo chamber of “this is the worst movie ever and you’re stupid for liking it”. We need to be able to have civil conversations like human beings.
@StupidBeagleReviews agreed. Sorry for being Jaded, people get me there with foolishness. Strongest points of the film. His mental illness is proven several times. Lapses in memory, placing himself in fantasy to escape a terrible reality, a laugh the result of a fabricated story by his mother and a nervous tick...and as best put by his lawyer, a persona created to protect the mind of a traumatized child. The Joker is not so much an alternate personality as it is simply the worst Arthur is capable of - Carl Jung's The Shadow. Which is his true self is hard to say. The Shadow is the self you don't show others, the one locked up..waiting to be free. "I am free." Was what was really meant by that statement. Also. We assume the possibility of Lee being imaginary because his relationship with Sophie was... it can be difficult to to understand how Lee was able to move so freely through Arkham. Like the scene where she visits Arthur in his cell.. unlikely...but not impossible and proven to be real through her claimed pregnancy. Most likely the guard that said Arthurs signature would be worth money after he fries felt bad enough or was a big enough fan of Arthur's to let Lee in. He was the gate guard. However she isn't the one in Arthur's head if you ask me. The kid is. The young inmate that "kills" Arthur. Ever notice he's 100% of the time directly behind Arthur? Like a Shadow?
Aren't there enough smart and crazed lunatics out there to compel them to do it over again for free? Kind of like when a kid does some shitty homework last minute.
You know, I envy your sane and straight forward response instead of my balh..blah.. producer was probably on derangement special. sauce that week. Some of us have social learning difficulties but we try.
@@natesquibb3368 Randall gave him a gun, and then when Arthur got in trouble for it when it slipped out of his pocket at a children’s hospital, Randall denied ever giving Arthur the gun and ratted him out. Arthur then got fired from his job. Randall was also a bully, treating both Arthur and Gary badly. Obviously Arthur was an idiot for bringing the gun into a hospital, but he still blamed Randall for getting him fired, and decided to kill him.
I think this really was the genius of it. Making joker fans in the movie and audiences alike abandon Arthur. Both did'n t care for him, they only wanted the Joker.
It was a logical continuation of the story. Arthur was a man-child, an incel living with his mom, having no life experience, having a brain injury and most likely what they called "low IQ" in Joker 2. How should Arthur ever become this genius clown prince of crime everybody wanted to see. Almost sounds like... a delusion.
@@monikaengelsfeld686 oh absolutely. In The Dark Knight, Heath Ledger’s Joker is incredibly smart. He’s an insane monster but he’s also a genius, and that’s what makes him so scary. Heath’s Joker would laugh at Arthur and kick his ass. Arthur never could’ve been the clown prince of crime. Even after seeing the first film, I struggled to picture a world where Arthur would become the Joker from the comics, it was never about that.
The beginning definitely happened to me, I saw this about 3 weeks ago and it still hasn’t left my mind, definitely need to give it another watch, I personally give it a 7/10
You know, I did see Joker (2019) movie before this, but it was a long time ago and didn't remember much about it. But I did see Joker 2, and liked it on it's own. And hey, if you don't care about the Joker and Harley's character, (which is understandable seeing that these are completely new takes on the two) it could act as an interesting perspective on mental health. I know that the scenes where he was crying and laughing sure as hell made me cry
@@Sonicspeeed35 right, it’s a completely unique and different interpretation, and I don’t have an issue with that. Like I said in the video, I’d much rather see something like this than just another generic superhero movie going through the corporate conveyer belt of content.
Personally, I really didn't like it, but after this I can see why people like it and I think that's ok. I'm happy people are able to find qualities in it where I couldn't. I do like the movie mildly more after having watched this cause you pointed out a couple things I hadn't noticed or thought about until you mentioned them.
That’s perfect, that’s what I was hoping for. Thank you for your comment.
for me this movie hit me at the perfect time in my life, just like the first one did, I would say both are 10/10 but I actually think Joker 2 is better and might be my favorite movie of all time.
@@lunarlad8075 I love that. I hope you’re able to be loud and proud about it, and if anyone bullies you, just know that none of their words matter. I want to rewatch it, I think I said in the video that I might like it even more a second time. It’s still a movie that I think about a lot.
It doesn't matter if someone is being an asshole or not, they are still allowed to have an opinion.
@@rototiller345 Everyone is allowed to have an opinion. But I think it’s pretty basic knowledge that being an asshole is a bad thing.
Tod Phillips’s story is the origin of the joker symbol. Which is probably how a supper villain would manifest in the real world. You could do something similar with Batman. Bruce Wane becomes I vengeful vigilante because of the trauma he experienced has a kid and he has a hatred for anyone that plays a apart in the joker movement.
@@bennconner1195 For sure. Todd Phillips said he’s done making DC films though, so I don’t see that happening, especially with how poorly received this one was critically and financially. I think that’s fine, it ended in a good place.
This guy is consistent and puts in the work, subscribe like i did he deserves the boost
@@doomerquiet1909 omg thank you. That made my day.
Cut out all the musical shit and it wasn't a bad movie LOL I just watched it and fast forwarded through all the music and I actually liked it. The idea of the ending being Heath Ledger's Joker is kind of cool
@@billdelfera8580 Hey that’s totally fair! I really liked the musical elements a lot, but it’s fine if you don’t.
Great movie that bunch of people shit on to feel cool because they read a review somewhere and cant formulate thier own opinion.
Film required a level of maturity, empathy and an attention span people these days sorely lack.
@@o-shawnspecific80 I had a friend who didn’t like it but he was COMPLETELY reasonable and cool about it. He’s also very intelligent and isn’t against weird movies, it’s just that this one didn’t work for him and he had a lot of good reasons why. Unfortunately those people seem rare, especially on the internet. I hate the echo chamber of “this is the worst movie ever and you’re stupid for liking it”. We need to be able to have civil conversations like human beings.
@StupidBeagleReviews agreed. Sorry for being Jaded, people get me there with foolishness.
Strongest points of the film.
His mental illness is proven several times.
Lapses in memory, placing himself in fantasy to escape a terrible reality, a laugh the result of a fabricated story by his mother and a nervous tick...and as best put by his lawyer, a persona created to protect the mind of a traumatized child.
The Joker is not so much an alternate personality as it is simply the worst Arthur is capable of - Carl Jung's The Shadow.
Which is his true self is hard to say.
The Shadow is the self you don't show others, the one locked up..waiting to be free.
"I am free."
Was what was really meant by that statement.
Also.
We assume the possibility of Lee being imaginary because his relationship with Sophie was... it can be difficult to to understand how Lee was able to move so freely through Arkham.
Like the scene where she visits Arthur in his cell.. unlikely...but not impossible and proven to be real through her claimed pregnancy.
Most likely the guard that said Arthurs signature would be worth money after he fries felt bad enough or was a big enough fan of Arthur's to let Lee in.
He was the gate guard.
However she isn't the one in Arthur's head if you ask me.
The kid is. The young inmate that "kills" Arthur.
Ever notice he's 100% of the time directly behind Arthur?
Like a Shadow?
Aren't there enough smart and crazed lunatics out there to compel them to do it over again for free? Kind of like when a kid does some shitty homework last minute.
Ah yes tipical of Hollywood to finally make a good movie then ruin it by making a sequel.
You know, I envy your sane and straight forward response instead of my balh..blah.. producer was probably on derangement special. sauce that week. Some of us have social learning difficulties but we try.
Joker randomly killed his friend from the clown school, that guy didn’t do anything to Arthur did he? I can’t remember
@@natesquibb3368 Randall gave him a gun, and then when Arthur got in trouble for it when it slipped out of his pocket at a children’s hospital, Randall denied ever giving Arthur the gun and ratted him out. Arthur then got fired from his job. Randall was also a bully, treating both Arthur and Gary badly. Obviously Arthur was an idiot for bringing the gun into a hospital, but he still blamed Randall for getting him fired, and decided to kill him.