@@Vilgax00 I'm not sure what this means. Spongebob as in being a more passive and less dangerous villain? My comment referred to a while back when Penguin was considered Batman's second most dangerous and popular villain. Nowadays he's underutilised and only used as a means to gain information when Batman shows up and beats him. He's shown as the corrupt version of Batman since they both have wealthy and influential families but one is good and the other is corrupt. Penguin still cares about Gotham however at least from what I remember and isn't as evil as someone like the Joker and he used to be characterised well.
Not so unsurprising honestly...What these executives at Warner Bros don't understand is that with the Joker...Less is always more! You kill what makes this character special with overexposure like this shit. Oh and can't forget .. You can't tell a joker story without the other guy. It isn't a Joker story. I know that billion dollars made this hard to resist but just because you can do something definitely doesn't mean that you should
@@all_out_tripp7220no it should have and could have been so many things. But Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix used the opportunity to attack their own fans.
It’s simple. They let penguin be a villain. A bad guy. A violent psychopath. And that’s exactly what The Joker couldn’t do… I don’t want to sympathize with the villain.
@@BxNcVsper777 Exactly, all any of us Joker fans wanted was just him crashing out for meme material for 2 hours and 30 minutes. While also balancing an actual think-piece through a great script.
The good thing about Penguin is that the story aint botched up like Joker 2 . Its something people can like and enjoy . Joker 2 is a mess amd completely unnecessary
Can't say unnecessary. But the Joker 2 they made is definitely not what people wanted. Funny how the fans of the first movie has better pitches for where to take the series right out the theater back in 2019.
Very simple. The Penguin gave the fans what they wanted. Joker 2 made fun of the fans and told them to f off. Also, just because a movie or tv show is "unnecessary" doesn't mean it has to be bad. A good filmmaker would jump at the chance to make his/her Joker 2 and make it something the audience will enjoy regardless of whether or not it was "necessary".
They missed the perfect opportunity to do two things with the Joker 2 movie: 1- To introduce a DCU Batman 2- To fully complete the Joker's perfect origin story Imagine if they made him develop as a character within 15 years stuck in the Arkham Asylum.... he's older now and at that point he's just a regular criminal because the system in there is corrupt but he keeps his Joker dark side to himself until he meets Harley and his sessions with her encourage him to bring the Joker out again...He manipulates her into helping him escape. He escapes, outside there's a bunch of lunatics almost like followers that help him and Harley because they're excited that the Joker is back. They start a riot in Gotham and even the police can't stop him... Last scene of the movie is him causing a riot, police cant' do shit and then Batman (in his first years as the dark knight) shows up and he ends up accidentally falling into an acid tank. Everybody thinks he's dead.. Post credit scene shows that he survives, he's obsessed with this Batman entity and his face is all fucked up. End of the movie.
@@Salamander676 Doubt it to be honest. It really does seem that there's a spiteful, moral crusading motivation in the movie. It felt way too preachy and artificial for me, too black and white, with all the petty notions of 'this is how you're supposed to see the movie', instead of just letting the audience walk off with their own interpretation. The author can have his own opinion, but half the fun in entertainment is having our own take on the piece. In this case, the director really seem to hate that the audience has a different opinion on the first movie.
The obvious answer is in the show, the Penguin wants to be the Penguin. He doesn't want to toss away his life of crime and just become some nameless loser.
Joker 2 didn’t have a story. It was made to stroke the ego of journalists, Todd Phillips himself, and pretentious UA-camrs who didn’t like the first one and thinks it’s being deep by being meta and hating the audience, when that’s as cliche as it gets. Penguin I haven’t watched yet, but I think I might have to now.
The first Joker was overwhelmingly praised by critics and audiences. I'll never understand why a film maker would prioritize a very small minority of naysayers vs the vast majority that enjoyed the first movie
@@InitialPC but that still only applies to a small group. The filmmaker was trying to stick it to the Joker fanboy edgelords and that only accounts for a minority of the people that enjoyed the movie. It's almost like he forgot that the internet is not real life
Even this show wasn’t the penguin it would be a gripping crime drama, the writing, acting and cinematography is exquisite, it’s a bonus that it’s a Penguin series
If you told me in even 2006 that a penguin Tv show is going to dunk on a sequel to a billion dollar joker movie, I'd call the cops and try to have you comitted
@@mrheadcannon same, i thought they were tell more about the romance of joker and harly quinn and i didnt mind the part when they said it's a muscial since there are parts of the first joker movie where joker dances so i didnt mind but i didnt think they would go for a story like this,😢
Penguin is a bad guy, a gangster. He wants money, power, recognition. He has a horrible temper, and hates being abused or disrespected, but he doesn't do random evil. It isn't gratuitous. There is always some reason, a purpose. He is tough but not invincible. He is smart, but not all-knowing. In short, he is pretty believable, and we can understand what motivates him.
If you told me five years ago a series on the Penguin would get me more hyped than a Joker stand-alone film I would’ve thought you were clinically insane Episode 4 is the best thing I’ve seen on Television next to Battle of the Bastards
Isn't Penguin like Kingpin from MCU? The gangster who wants a better thing in bad area and loves his mom dearly. However to be good in bad environment you must unfortunately be also bad if not worse...
im sick of people saying that matt reeves is ashame of making a comic book franchise for chaging things, he is NOT. he is just is rebuilding thing from it to make his own vision. Just like mythlogy and comic books do this shit all the time, just look at alan moore and frank miller (hell alan moore originally wanted canon dc characters like peacemaker and blue bettle for watchen) Todd phillips is the one who is ASHAME, not only does he adds nothing new to the batman mythos that were already done much better in other media, but also because he dosn't commit to go beyond his new interpretation, i mean why does he re-tell his own version of the joker if he will ended up replace him with a heath leadger wannabe? thats like if the riddler version reeves ended up beeing replace by a jim carrey look like because "thats the actuall looking riddler and fans won't get mad for making him a zodiac killer"
Joker 2 is trying to be a meta deconstruction of the first joker and is targeted to the complete opposite audience of the original while also hating the original audience. The penguin is a solid well made straight forward mafia/crime show. Also both the male and female leads in penguin are actually well developed
They have to bring in a significant amount of new subscribers that keep renewing their subscriptions. That's why a lot of these streaming services aren't really profitable yet from what i understand
@@idawg7332and bho has been penguin series by great writer , director actor respect sourse material although it true it different universe still respect penguin as villian not anti hero stuff
I didn’t realize they didn’t mention Gotham City at all in Joker2 but I did notice that they didn’t mention Thomas Wayne or his death and I thought that was odd
The first Joker sucked. It's JINO. Joker In Name Only. I like that you distinguished between comic book fans and fans of the first film. They are two different things for SURE.
The joker 2 feels like a different person. Arthur from joker 1 is different from Arthur like joker 2, feels like you took another unrelated movie & just took the title the joker. Penguin has consistency, relatable and it feels like what would the penguin be in real life
The Penguin is the first “Batman” show that I hope Batman never shows up. I’m a hardcore Batman fan. I love how Gotham is so well flushed out. I never thought about Wayne Manor being in the suburbs.😂😂😂😂
When I first heard that HBO was working on a penguin show, my thinking was they were gonna blow it no way they could make the penguin who’s very strange villain into an amazing show. Probably one of my favorites shows ever now
The Joker two is incredibly misunderstood, and so was the first movie. The first movie was never about the Joker. It was a movie about a man who had mental health problems and the system failing him and what unchecked mental health consider into in society, but the Director knew nobody would see this movie so he disguised it in genre that puts people in movie theatre seats. And the second movie shows what happens to people society idolizes, The false prophets who can no longer keep up the charade, and how quickly society will drop them when you no longer live up to their standards or expectations. Lee dropped the Joker instantly. and we, as an audience dropped the Joker franchise, which everybody seemed to love the first movie, but when this character didn’t live up to your standards or expectations we turned very quickly. Now it doesn’t help that the Joker two was a boring movie. It was beautiful, but it was boring. And I think that was on purpose. hear me out… I think he made this movie horrible on purpose. The pacing was bad, the writing was bad, like first year film school bad. The musical aspect was horrible, and it could’ve been good. He had two incredible singers, and he chose to have them sing off key?!?! it doesn’t make sense. None of it makes sense unless he was trying to turn a mirror on us as a society and show us what idolizing false prophets results in. Nothing about Arthur Fleck ever reflected the Joker. Arthur reacted out of fear and impulse every single time, that’s not who the Joker is, the joker is meticulous, he makes plans and sets them into motion. And the joker normally uses crews for this, whether they’re thugs or Arkham patients. He can talk people into joining him or working for him. Arthur Fleck couldn’t even keep a friend because he was so socially awkward. The people of Gotham in this movie only idolized him because they saw on the news he killed some rich people, they never heard him speak about why he did it besides being on the Murray show and saying that the guys were assholes and they deserved it. And I was in between bad jokes. Arthur Fleck was never the Joker and he was never meant to be the Joker. He was a joker and the joke was on us. They dressed up a man and called him the joker and we ate it up, but all it was was some cheap paint and a nickname. And I think that’s a reflection of our society today, you can dress up any loser and make society love them, Trump, Biden, Musk, 99% of celebrities, 99% of people on social media. And we as a society love to build people up like gypsy Rose and Mama tot and then as soon as they do something, we don’t like or agree with we, turn on them. And I could go into a long thing about how it’s a joke on the studios as well, but that’s for another discussion. So yeah, The Joker two sucked big-time, but was that the point?
The only thing I appreciate about this film is the ending, regardless of the previous story lines the appearance of the REAL joker or what could be a perfect setup for an actual origin story.
My favorite line from Penguin was when the Penguin said "How 'bout that prick's face when he saw the gat?" and penguined all over the citizens of Gotham.
One tries to be a good show and to tell a decent story, it doesnt have Lady Gaga in it and it's not a fucking musical and the other one did everything on this list... 🤷
I bet Hollywood saw how much the media tried to vilify the first movie so they tried to distance themselves as far away from it as possible. And somehow didn’t realize the movie in fact did not spread violence and was enjoyed because of the themes it conveyed and not because it had the name Joker, but it sure helped a bit
Honestly they actually cared about the penguin character and cared about how he’s supposed to and meant to be portrayed. Which is as a mobster and a gangster, he’s meant to be a leader much how joker is only he’s slimy and slippery and very convincing. A good portrayal of him is in Arkham city, that’s how he’s meant to be and I think they did that character justice. Not necessary physically imposing but insanely smart especially street smart. He knows how to play the game and knows how to get what he wants
5:40 court room drama musical I assumed it would be like Chicago can be a good way to do it but no according to my brother just pop music and love songs
Nobody wanted a Penguin show, but although I felt glum and exhausted afterwards, I'd not only say it's some of the best acting, but on par with Daredevil.
The plot of the Penguin is what Joker 2's story shouldve been; about Arthur Fleck building up his criminal empire from the bottom up to the very top of Gotham's golden halls years before Batman joins the frey.
Todd stated that he made the movie for himself. James Gunn gave him pointers on how to make it better and he ignored them. Honestly if I were him, I probably would have fired him
First thing penguin is not about a fantasy world musical Its show you ground reality of gotham city and its people, government, powerfull people, sewer rat like crown point people and power hungry people like penguin He can be anything leader, king, a motivational guru, a slave and your worse nightmare That's why he is dangerous
*And on top of that the Penguin is more dangerous than Tony Soprano because unlike Tony Soprano Tony's dad did most of the heavy lifting in the mafia for Tony than he did, Tony even said his father is the one that got him that house, and like his mother said he never worked in a factory nor even been in prison...The Penguin on the other had NOBODY to help him he did all of the hustling himself to get to his position in the mob all he has is himself which makes him think quicker, which is why he chose Victor to be his right hand. Knowing Tony he would never work with someone outside his race especially a colored man for anything because he is a big fat bigot but Penguin doesn't discriminate if it makes him money and that corporate mindset might be the thing that makes him soar up the mafia ranks...*
Joker 1's version of Gotham stood out to me. From the get go you get a very distinct feeling from other versions of Gotham, this one being moee grounded in reality while still doing its own thing. The FIRST line of diolag is a radio broadcast that tells you what the city is gking through, with garbage literally flooding the streets, and giant RATS infestations. Gotham here feels like a depressing place and it explains why men like Arthur Fleck can form. Joker 2 doesn't seem to explore anywhere and its a waste of time. Such potenital too, all wasted for *money.*
The Joker 2 story actually makes more sense than trying to turn Arthur into the Joker from comics. Arthur is no criminal mastermind, and he does not have the ability to manipulate people.
The Penguin deconstructs its supervillain better than Joker 2 does, by making the Penguin a badass gangster, instead of a campy gentleman thief, like he is in Batman comics. Where Joker 2 went wrong is it turned Fleck from a vengeful, murderous badass rebel leader back into a wussy, remorseful, and depressed loser archetype. Proper deconstruction makes corny characters more "butch" and badass!
The musicals part was great as it showed his inner world, where he thought he was grandiose etc. It was all false. In the end he realized it was just his false coping mechanisms.
The reason the Penguin show is so good is because IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DC. I say this as a rabid DC fan with 10 years played on DCUO. Gotham series was trash because it changed basically everything about most of the characters. The Penguin series is just a really good mafia series. Its like JoJo part 5.
you didn't understand what joker 2 was about! it wasn't even about The joker! it was the story of Arthur fleck who didn't want to be what people (society) wanted him to be. They only wanted to see Joker, not Arthur Fleck Himself!! and that's so sad.
Yea but then don’t make it a joker film? It feels like he had to trick people into watching his film by pretending he was giving them joker only to give them…. Whatever this was. I’m not gonna apologize for only caring about joker in a film called joker lmao
@@makhibarber7213 kinda smart :) but listen, it's not The Joker as you see in the title, it's Joker. And todd wanted to convey this message that Joker is an idea, not a specific person. Arthur was the first one but not the last one.
Raise your hand If you asked for joker on Broadway, anyone?. There was zero need for joker the musical. Kinda disappointed they didn't use Gagas Harley in a more shutter island kind of way, where she goes along with Arthur's delusions
I actually think it’s the opposite. Watching the penguin sit around with some kid all episode was pretty boring compared to exploring Arthur/joker’s psyche and drama
The second one should have had him do what he did at the end of the first movie, embracing chaos, instead he turned into a wet rag that sings too damn much
I still (mostly) prefer modern Joker stories to modern Penguin stories, for the simple reason that the Joker is among the few Batman villains you can still get away with portraying as fanciful and funny. Somewhat ironically, it's easier to place a clown into a serious story than a man with a hooked nose, a monocle and a top hat.
The Joker of the Joker movie is NOT a Batman villain. This was the studios trolling Batman fans. The first Joker movie was not a Batman movie either. It was a movie about a sad, insane clown - sure, they trotted out baby Bruce to try to link it to the comic book hero, and it worked… for the less discerning. I never bought it. In some boardroom someone had a good story, but someone else realized that if they give it the name Joker they can attract Batman fans, which they did, just like the ill-fated Catwoman movie. I didn’t buy it then, I’m not buying it now. You want to make a movie about a Batman villain? Feature Batman in it. Not baby Bruce. Not a fleeting reference to the Waynes or Gotham. I want to see Batman, the Batcave, the Batmobile, and yes…Robin too. I want to watch grown up Bruce Wayne. I truly wish the studios would stop wasting their money on these people who apparently hate the source material and give us what we really want; Batman!
It's easy to see Why Pengiun works. He was in The Batman. Joker had no Batman to push him forward! So yea Joker 2019 and 2024 still Sucks. It's like making a Batman movie without Batman...
Penguin also feels as close to comicbook Penguin as someone can in such a realistic universe. Whereas Joker 2 movie is nowhere near being comicbook Joker, even adjusting for him being in a more realistic universe. A realistic universe Joker is someone like what Heath Ledger played.
I never liked this adaptation, as far as I know the joker has never worn a red suit, the face makeup is something I could see filmmakers getting away with in an origin story but at least give him the purple suit. I watched the first joker in theaters and I hated it. I was hesitant to watch the second one but I wasn’t paying for it and I had time on my hands. Joker 2 is a good movie to watch only if you’ve got literally nothing else to do or anything else to watch.
Joker is a Killer Alpha Character and a musical character with romance has killed the whole image of Joker that Heath Ledger left behind.. Part 1 of Joaquin Phoenix was awesome, the second part, even the Trailer sucks... They made a "Joker" movie for Married Couples in love, treacherously killing the Value of the Character.
You know you did a hell of a good job when audience actually cares about fricking Penguin.
Amazing show but it's not like people didn't like the penguin. Like before he always was a popular and fan favourite batman villain.
The audience always cared about Penguin lol. He's a well liked villain of Batman's and in the DC, he's just usually underutilised.
@@arataki_ittoofficial4375 He is the Spongebob of Batman villians. He even voiced by actuall Spongebob.
@@Vilgax00 I'm not sure what this means. Spongebob as in being a more passive and less dangerous villain? My comment referred to a while back when Penguin was considered Batman's second most dangerous and popular villain. Nowadays he's underutilised and only used as a means to gain information when Batman shows up and beats him. He's shown as the corrupt version of Batman since they both have wealthy and influential families but one is good and the other is corrupt. Penguin still cares about Gotham however at least from what I remember and isn't as evil as someone like the Joker and he used to be characterised well.
@@arataki_ittoofficial4375 I mean he is mostly end up with the butt of the jokes. He even voiced by Tom Kenny.
I can't believe I'm living in a world where the Penguin has finally surpassed the Joker, and I'm all for it.
FR!
Im sure if the made a joker spinoff series to the batman movie it would be better than the penguin and the penguin show itself is a masterpiece
@@CordayDatzTuff the episode 4 was incredible
He has always been better
Not so unsurprising honestly...What these executives at Warner Bros don't understand is that with the Joker...Less is always more! You kill what makes this character special with overexposure like this shit. Oh and can't forget .. You can't tell a joker story without the other guy. It isn't a Joker story. I know that billion dollars made this hard to resist but just because you can do something definitely doesn't mean that you should
The Penguin is what Joker 2 should’ve been like
Nah, joker 2 shouldn’t have been anything
They’re both terrible
@@MeatCatCheesyBlaster L take
@@MeatCatCheesyBlasterbad taste, I see
@@all_out_tripp7220no it should have and could have been so many things. But Todd Phillips and Joaquin Phoenix used the opportunity to attack their own fans.
Joker 2 sucked, sucked so badly that it was a dream for Joaquin Phoenix to the point he’s the reason it was made
Not helped by Todd Phillips hating the audience of the movie and expressing it through the movie.
@@aurahoneydew9607 oh god yeah I forgot about that
What Joker 2?
@@MrDestroyah-kf6ovSeriously asking, what Joker 2?
@@Arkhambattles joker, electric boogaloo
The fact that Joker 2 did worse than Madame Web is Crazy
Not meeting expectations is worse than having no expectation to begin with.
@@davidl8031 True
What??? Nah.. 😭😭
@@hashshashiin.forsī Ikr, I wasn't expecting a film to do worse than that Film 💀
@@davidl8031then again, I take anything Sydney Sweeney than Lady Gaga
I feel sorry for Phoenix tarnishing his legacy with this garbage
Don’t be he took the money he knew it was a trash ass script
Napoleon wasn’t that good either.
They wrote the character of Napoleon horribly who's supposed to be a dictatoric tyrant like Hans Landa in Inglourious Basterds. @@frizzyrascal1493
It’s simple. They let penguin be a villain. A bad guy. A violent psychopath.
And that’s exactly what The Joker couldn’t do… I don’t want to sympathize with the villain.
Joker is a known crashout. A movie where joker crashing out the whole movie would be golden
@@BxNcVsper777 Exactly, all any of us Joker fans wanted was just him crashing out for meme material for 2 hours and 30 minutes. While also balancing an actual think-piece through a great script.
The good thing about Penguin is that the story aint botched up like Joker 2 . Its something people can like and enjoy . Joker 2 is a mess amd completely unnecessary
Can't say unnecessary. But the Joker 2 they made is definitely not what people wanted. Funny how the fans of the first movie has better pitches for where to take the series right out the theater back in 2019.
Ironically, Victor is now a better representation of Arthur Fleck than Arthur Fleck was in Joker Folie a Deux.
Who's Victor?
@@Salamander676that black kid in The Penguin show
Very simple. The Penguin gave the fans what they wanted. Joker 2 made fun of the fans and told them to f off.
Also, just because a movie or tv show is "unnecessary" doesn't mean it has to be bad. A good filmmaker would jump at the chance to make his/her Joker 2 and make it something the audience will enjoy regardless of whether or not it was "necessary".
They missed the perfect opportunity to do two things with the Joker 2 movie:
1- To introduce a DCU Batman
2- To fully complete the Joker's perfect origin story
Imagine if they made him develop as a character within 15 years stuck in the Arkham Asylum.... he's older now and at that point he's just a regular criminal because the system in there is corrupt but he keeps his Joker dark side to himself until he meets Harley and his sessions with her encourage him to bring the Joker out again...He manipulates her into helping him escape. He escapes, outside there's a bunch of lunatics almost like followers that help him and Harley because they're excited that the Joker is back. They start a riot in Gotham and even the police can't stop him... Last scene of the movie is him causing a riot, police cant' do shit and then Batman (in his first years as the dark knight) shows up and he ends up accidentally falling into an acid tank. Everybody thinks he's dead.. Post credit scene shows that he survives, he's obsessed with this Batman entity and his face is all fucked up. End of the movie.
Wow, this is so good. You need to write screenplays sir.
@@sohaibfazal6528 anyone with a brain can write a better movie in 10 minutes.
this is good writings than the one in the movie, you should becomes screenwriter tbh
Thank god you’re no screenwriter lol this is as bad as the film we got.
@@guitarlairmy thoughts exactly,his comment is cringe af
It’s sad since Joker 2 clearly had effort, the cinematography is great like the first. It feels the writers hated Joker
Yep he really intented to make bad because he piss off how audience appuals joker not hating him
Its just the writing thats bad its so annoying i loved the first one
@@runajain5773 the director hated the studio for forcing him to make a sequel to Joker. It has nothing to do with the audience.
@@Salamander676 Doubt it to be honest. It really does seem that there's a spiteful, moral crusading motivation in the movie. It felt way too preachy and artificial for me, too black and white, with all the petty notions of 'this is how you're supposed to see the movie', instead of just letting the audience walk off with their own interpretation. The author can have his own opinion, but half the fun in entertainment is having our own take on the piece. In this case, the director really seem to hate that the audience has a different opinion on the first movie.
@@Salamander676He didn't have to take the millions of dollars if he didn't want the money
ThePenguin had a fantastic villain arc. They took a notorious villain and exposed that he's an even worse person than we originally thought.
Why even bring in a character inspired by Harley if Arthur is not even Joker?
It's so bad that people are theorizing that Harley was completely in jokers head
@@juggernaut316which is untrue
@@mightguy3118And yet has a precedent making it at least plausible, albeit untrue.
Why The Penguin WORKS and Joker 2 SUCKS?
BECAUSE ITS NOT A FUCKING MUSICAL 🤣😂
The obvious answer is in the show, the Penguin wants to be the Penguin. He doesn't want to toss away his life of crime and just become some nameless loser.
They could’ve made a Two Face movie, a Bane movie, a Rag Al Ghul movie, a Lex Luthor movie, a Clayface horror movie, anything but Folie a Poo Poo!
The penguin is a legit masterpiece. It will take some time for people to recognize it as such
Not rlly people is call this the best dc show put out
Joker 2 didn’t have a story. It was made to stroke the ego of journalists, Todd Phillips himself, and pretentious UA-camrs who didn’t like the first one and thinks it’s being deep by being meta and hating the audience, when that’s as cliche as it gets. Penguin I haven’t watched yet, but I think I might have to now.
It better you should watch batman 2022 movie . Series based after event of movie event for context
Too election like😅😅😅😅
The first Joker was overwhelmingly praised by critics and audiences. I'll never understand why a film maker would prioritize a very small minority of naysayers vs the vast majority that enjoyed the first movie
@@fangal12 because the people who enjoyed it were not the people the filmmaker was trying to appeal to
@@InitialPC but that still only applies to a small group. The filmmaker was trying to stick it to the Joker fanboy edgelords and that only accounts for a minority of the people that enjoyed the movie. It's almost like he forgot that the internet is not real life
I’m surprised, that the Penguin made so much money.
You mean in the show or for HBO? 😅
@@mrheadcannon HBO, obviously
Even this show wasn’t the penguin it would be a gripping crime drama, the writing, acting and cinematography is exquisite, it’s a bonus that it’s a Penguin series
If you told me in even 2006 that a penguin Tv show is going to dunk on a sequel to a billion dollar joker movie, I'd call the cops and try to have you comitted
It is a shame that Joker 2 was bad. Because the first one was very powerful.
joker 2 sucks, they never should have made it. (third)
I wasn't completely against a second movie, as long as they had a good story to tell. Guess they didn't 😅
@@mrheadcannon same, i thought they were tell more about the romance of joker and harly quinn and i didnt mind the part when they said it's a muscial since there are parts of the first joker movie where joker dances so i didnt mind but i didnt think they would go for a story like this,😢
@@mrheadcannonLol
I'm curious if they will try making other random Batman villain tv shows set in The Batman's universe. A Two Face one could be interesting.
Penguin is a bad guy, a gangster. He wants money, power, recognition. He has a horrible temper, and hates being abused or disrespected, but he doesn't do random evil. It isn't gratuitous. There is always some reason, a purpose. He is tough but not invincible. He is smart, but not all-knowing. In short, he is pretty believable, and we can understand what motivates him.
Penguin has been a treat. I really didn’t know what to expect, but man it’s been a good show.
I expected the Riddler and Mr. Freeze to make cameos in both of them, maybe they can have their own movies shows someday.
That would have helped, immensely! It would have been comic book accurate.
If you told me five years ago a series on the Penguin would get me more hyped than a Joker stand-alone film I would’ve thought you were clinically insane Episode 4 is the best thing I’ve seen on Television next to Battle of the Bastards
No. Not everybody hate it. I love it
It’s insane that the penguin show is only just at the halfway point
It feels like almost a full season worth of stuff happened already
Isn't Penguin like Kingpin from MCU? The gangster who wants a better thing in bad area and loves his mom dearly. However to be good in bad environment you must unfortunately be also bad if not worse...
Yeh he is bad but he is only who is fill power vaccum without penguin more crime will in gotham
im sick of people saying that matt reeves is ashame of making a comic book franchise for chaging things, he is NOT. he is just is rebuilding thing from it to make his own vision. Just like mythlogy and comic books do this shit all the time, just look at alan moore and frank miller (hell alan moore originally wanted canon dc characters like peacemaker and blue bettle for watchen)
Todd phillips is the one who is ASHAME, not only does he adds nothing new to the batman mythos that were already done much better in other media, but also because he dosn't commit to go beyond his new interpretation, i mean why does he re-tell his own version of the joker if he will ended up replace him with a heath leadger wannabe? thats like if the riddler version reeves ended up beeing replace by a jim carrey look like because "thats the actuall looking riddler and fans won't get mad for making him a zodiac killer"
phillips is what twitter thinks reeves is
Joker 2 is trying to be a meta deconstruction of the first joker and is targeted to the complete opposite audience of the original while also hating the original audience. The penguin is a solid well made straight forward mafia/crime show. Also both the male and female leads in penguin are actually well developed
Side question: How do shows make money for their streaming services?
They have to bring in a significant amount of new subscribers that keep renewing their subscriptions. That's why a lot of these streaming services aren't really profitable yet from what i understand
@@idawg7332 Understood. Thanks
@@idawg7332and bho has been penguin series by great writer , director actor respect sourse material although it true it different universe still respect penguin as villian not anti hero stuff
I didn’t realize they didn’t mention Gotham City at all in Joker2 but I did notice that they didn’t mention Thomas Wayne or his death and I thought that was odd
The first Joker sucked. It's JINO. Joker In Name Only. I like that you distinguished between comic book fans and fans of the first film. They are two different things for SURE.
Joker 2 felt like a money laundering play
00:50 well, I always supported The Penguin and wanted to be like him 💀
The joker 2 feels like a different person. Arthur from joker 1 is different from Arthur like joker 2, feels like you took another unrelated movie & just took the title the joker.
Penguin has consistency, relatable and it feels like what would the penguin be in real life
1) Not a musical
2) Better directing and kept with the Batman movie’s aesthetic
3) Not. A. Musical
The Penguin is the first “Batman” show that I hope Batman never shows up. I’m a hardcore Batman fan. I love how Gotham is so well flushed out. I never thought about Wayne Manor being in the suburbs.😂😂😂😂
0:23 wait wait wait why was punisher not up there it’s the best 😂
I’m thoroughly enjoying Penguin. I really needed this show and I have no idea why. Haha
When I first heard that HBO was working on a penguin show, my thinking was they were gonna blow it no way they could make the penguin who’s very strange villain into an amazing show. Probably one of my favorites shows ever now
The Joker two is incredibly misunderstood, and so was the first movie. The first movie was never about the Joker. It was a movie about a man who had mental health problems and the system failing him and what unchecked mental health consider into in society, but the Director knew nobody would see this movie so he disguised it in genre that puts people in movie theatre seats. And the second movie shows what happens to people society idolizes, The false prophets who can no longer keep up the charade, and how quickly society will drop them when you no longer live up to their standards or expectations. Lee dropped the Joker instantly. and we, as an audience dropped the Joker franchise, which everybody seemed to love the first movie, but when this character didn’t live up to your standards or expectations we turned very quickly. Now it doesn’t help that the Joker two was a boring movie. It was beautiful, but it was boring. And I think that was on purpose. hear me out… I think he made this movie horrible on purpose. The pacing was bad, the writing was bad, like first year film school bad. The musical aspect was horrible, and it could’ve been good. He had two incredible singers, and he chose to have them sing off key?!?! it doesn’t make sense. None of it makes sense unless he was trying to turn a mirror on us as a society and show us what idolizing false prophets results in. Nothing about Arthur Fleck ever reflected the Joker. Arthur reacted out of fear and impulse every single time, that’s not who the Joker is, the joker is meticulous, he makes plans and sets them into motion. And the joker normally uses crews for this, whether they’re thugs or Arkham patients. He can talk people into joining him or working for him. Arthur Fleck couldn’t even keep a friend because he was so socially awkward. The people of Gotham in this movie only idolized him because they saw on the news he killed some rich people, they never heard him speak about why he did it besides being on the Murray show and saying that the guys were assholes and they deserved it. And I was in between bad jokes.
Arthur Fleck was never the Joker and he was never meant to be the Joker. He was a joker and the joke was on us. They dressed up a man and called him the joker and we ate it up, but all it was was some cheap paint and a nickname.
And I think that’s a reflection of our society today, you can dress up any loser and make society love them, Trump, Biden, Musk, 99% of celebrities, 99% of people on social media. And we as a society love to build people up like gypsy Rose and Mama tot and then as soon as they do something, we don’t like or agree with we, turn on them.
And I could go into a long thing about how it’s a joke on the studios as well, but that’s for another discussion.
So yeah, The Joker two sucked big-time, but was that the point?
The only thing I appreciate about this film is the ending, regardless of the previous story lines the appearance of the REAL joker or what could be a perfect setup for an actual origin story.
My favorite line from Penguin was when the Penguin said "How 'bout that prick's face when he saw the gat?" and penguined all over the citizens of Gotham.
This ain’t even a fair fight. I can’t wait to see The Joker in the Matt-verse
One tries to be a good show and to tell a decent story, it doesnt have Lady Gaga in it and it's not a fucking musical and the other one did everything on this list... 🤷
I have never been a Batman fan or anything I just heard the penguin was releasing, watched it and now I am hooked on hit while Batman universe
I bet Hollywood saw how much the media tried to vilify the first movie so they tried to distance themselves as far away from it as possible. And somehow didn’t realize the movie in fact did not spread violence and was enjoyed because of the themes it conveyed and not because it had the name Joker, but it sure helped a bit
Honestly they actually cared about the penguin character and cared about how he’s supposed to and meant to be portrayed. Which is as a mobster and a gangster, he’s meant to be a leader much how joker is only he’s slimy and slippery and very convincing. A good portrayal of him is in Arkham city, that’s how he’s meant to be and I think they did that character justice.
Not necessary physically imposing but insanely smart especially street smart. He knows how to play the game and knows how to get what he wants
5:40 court room drama musical I assumed it would be like Chicago can be a good way to do it but no according to my brother just pop music and love songs
Nobody wanted a Penguin show, but although I felt glum and exhausted afterwards, I'd not only say it's some of the best acting, but on par with Daredevil.
I can't get past the fact the director of Joker expected people not to sympathize with a guy who constantly gets screwed over by life by existing.
The biggest issue with Joker 2 is that by the end of the movie we end back up where we started in the first movie and then he dies.
The plot of the Penguin is what Joker 2's story shouldve been; about Arthur Fleck building up his criminal empire from the bottom up to the very top of Gotham's golden halls years before Batman joins the frey.
I care more about The Penguin then Matt Reeves The Batman If I have to be honest
Penquin is actually competent capable & entertaining.
Todd stated that he made the movie for himself. James Gunn gave him pointers on how to make it better and he ignored them. Honestly if I were him, I probably would have fired him
Don't mind me. I'm just a Frenchman watching English-speaking videos, just to know how Americans mess up the pronounciation of "Folie à deux"
First thing penguin is not about a fantasy world musical
Its show you ground reality of gotham city and its people, government, powerfull people, sewer rat like crown point people and power hungry people like penguin
He can be anything leader, king, a motivational guru, a slave and your worse nightmare
That's why he is dangerous
This is greatest show I've been seeing recently.
Really weird comparison but facts. The Penguin is by far one of the greatest comic book show I’ve seen.
yknow, joker 2 should have made him into the joker in the batman movie, where he would team up with the riddler
It’s so bad that we never gonna get a 3rd joker movie 🤫
When will people realize that Todd Philips Joker is a derivative 😂
This is the equivalent of "this is why Apples work and orange don't"
like ive always said "its not a party without a tragedy"
The penguin was the fire 🔥
Damn he murdered Vic!!!! 😂
I think I might go watch The Penguin now.
I love how todd Philips has admitted in post Arthur is not the joker but has no issue calling him the joker
*And on top of that the Penguin is more dangerous than Tony Soprano because unlike Tony Soprano Tony's dad did most of the heavy lifting in the mafia for Tony than he did, Tony even said his father is the one that got him that house, and like his mother said he never worked in a factory nor even been in prison...The Penguin on the other had NOBODY to help him he did all of the hustling himself to get to his position in the mob all he has is himself which makes him think quicker, which is why he chose Victor to be his right hand. Knowing Tony he would never work with someone outside his race especially a colored man for anything because he is a big fat bigot but Penguin doesn't discriminate if it makes him money and that corporate mindset might be the thing that makes him soar up the mafia ranks...*
Yo yo yo, a little “spoiler alert” for The Penguin would have been appreciated.
Joker 1's version of Gotham stood out to me. From the get go you get a very distinct feeling from other versions of Gotham, this one being moee grounded in reality while still doing its own thing. The FIRST line of diolag is a radio broadcast that tells you what the city is gking through, with garbage literally flooding the streets, and giant RATS infestations. Gotham here feels like a depressing place and it explains why men like Arthur Fleck can form. Joker 2 doesn't seem to explore anywhere and its a waste of time. Such potenital too, all wasted for *money.*
I have no interest in see either Joker 2 or The Penguin. Mostly because I don’t have Max.
The Joker 2 story actually makes more sense than trying to turn Arthur into the Joker from comics. Arthur is no criminal mastermind, and he does not have the ability to manipulate people.
Once joker was musical knew it was going to not be great..
Avocado was two steps ahead, this movie was two steps behind…
The Penguin deconstructs its supervillain better than Joker 2 does, by making the Penguin a badass gangster, instead of a campy gentleman thief, like he is in Batman comics. Where Joker 2 went wrong is it turned Fleck from a vengeful, murderous badass rebel leader back into a wussy, remorseful, and depressed loser archetype. Proper deconstruction makes corny characters more "butch" and badass!
The musicals part was great as it showed his inner world, where he thought he was grandiose etc.
It was all false.
In the end he realized it was just his false coping mechanisms.
The reason the Penguin show is so good is because IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH DC.
I say this as a rabid DC fan with 10 years played on DCUO. Gotham series was trash because it changed basically everything about most of the characters. The Penguin series is just a really good mafia series. Its like JoJo part 5.
you didn't understand what joker 2 was about! it wasn't even about The joker! it was the story of Arthur fleck who didn't want to be what people (society) wanted him to be. They only wanted to see Joker, not Arthur Fleck Himself!! and that's so sad.
Yea but then don’t make it a joker film? It feels like he had to trick people into watching his film by pretending he was giving them joker only to give them…. Whatever this was. I’m not gonna apologize for only caring about joker in a film called joker lmao
@@makhibarber7213 kinda smart :) but listen, it's not The Joker as you see in the title, it's Joker. And todd wanted to convey this message that Joker is an idea, not a specific person. Arthur was the first one but not the last one.
Raise your hand If you asked for joker on Broadway, anyone?. There was zero need for joker the musical. Kinda disappointed they didn't use Gagas Harley in a more shutter island kind of way, where she goes along with Arthur's delusions
i look at it as the actual joker but todd did originally said it was
I actually think it’s the opposite. Watching the penguin sit around with some kid all episode was pretty boring compared to exploring Arthur/joker’s psyche and drama
The second one should have had him do what he did at the end of the first movie, embracing chaos, instead he turned into a wet rag that sings too damn much
Joker 2 was a sequel nobody wanted, and didn't explain enough why it should exist. Why fix things that aren't broken?
I still (mostly) prefer modern Joker stories to modern Penguin stories, for the simple reason that the Joker is among the few Batman villains you can still get away with portraying as fanciful and funny. Somewhat ironically, it's easier to place a clown into a serious story than a man with a hooked nose, a monocle and a top hat.
The Joker of the Joker movie is NOT a Batman villain. This was the studios trolling Batman fans. The first Joker movie was not a Batman movie either. It was a movie about a sad, insane clown - sure, they trotted out baby Bruce to try to link it to the comic book hero, and it worked… for the less discerning. I never bought it. In some boardroom someone had a good story, but someone else realized that if they give it the name Joker they can attract Batman fans, which they did, just like the ill-fated Catwoman movie. I didn’t buy it then, I’m not buying it now. You want to make a movie about a Batman villain? Feature Batman in it. Not baby Bruce. Not a fleeting reference to the Waynes or Gotham.
I want to see Batman, the Batcave, the Batmobile, and yes…Robin too. I want to watch grown up Bruce Wayne. I truly wish the studios would stop wasting their money on these people who apparently hate the source material and give us what we really want; Batman!
It's easy to see Why Pengiun works. He was in The Batman. Joker had no Batman to push him forward! So yea Joker 2019 and 2024 still Sucks. It's like making a Batman movie without Batman...
Penguin also feels as close to comicbook Penguin as someone can in such a realistic universe. Whereas Joker 2 movie is nowhere near being comicbook Joker, even adjusting for him being in a more realistic universe. A realistic universe Joker is someone like what Heath Ledger played.
nah penguin sucks as well
I never liked this adaptation, as far as I know the joker has never worn a red suit, the face makeup is something I could see filmmakers getting away with in an origin story but at least give him the purple suit. I watched the first joker in theaters and I hated it. I was hesitant to watch the second one but I wasn’t paying for it and I had time on my hands. Joker 2 is a good movie to watch only if you’ve got literally nothing else to do or anything else to watch.
Because Penguin’s not a stupid musical.
Pingu: 1
Jonkler: 0
Great breakdown !
He wanted to distance himself from DC mythos.
Well, he did it. Permanently.
Joker is a Killer Alpha Character and a musical character with romance has killed the whole image of Joker that Heath Ledger left behind.. Part 1 of Joaquin Phoenix was awesome, the second part, even the Trailer sucks...
They made a "Joker" movie for Married Couples in love, treacherously killing the Value of the Character.