Here is a brief follow-up to this video. just wanted to show that the midrange controls effect different frequencies. The 6505 midrange control adjusts around 500hz-1k, while the rev G dual rec is more scooped in that same range, and the mid control on the rev G is around 250-500hz. I think this more than anything is why the two amps usually sound different from each other and thought this information might be interesting to some people. ua-cam.com/video/xFXR8lB3gpM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MetalheadProductions
Good job. Yeah, I've played both amps quite a bit. The amount I had to push the dual rectifier to get the gain in the same ball park as a 5150 on like 3 was ridiculous. Even just the gain character of both amps was a bit different, with the dual rec being so much drier. This was also a mid 2000's rev (G I think?)
Thanks, man. I just wanted to show that Amos can make a big tone difference in there own, you know. Don't need people thinking every amp sounds the same with the same speaker, although I did go out of my way to same the biggest impact to tone is the speaker, cab and mics, would never argue against that.
Just to note, Glenn did address this in his video. He does admit that he dialed them in to be as close as possible, and the point of doing that in his words was to show that if one amp can be dialed in to sound nearly identical to the other (especially in a full mix context), then why buy both of them? Hence I believe he was attempting to show how one does not need to buy a ton of different amps based around the same base circuit, instead buy 1 and you can dial it in as you need, and then use speakers / cabs / mics to alter it even futher.
Without wanting to be disrespectful, Glenn just likes to play the Shock Jock card a lot of the time, some people might find it funny and entertaining, but others might find it childish, and more importantly factually incorrect at times, I fall into the latter category, so I just choose not to watch his stuff.
It's funny because he has become a click bait whore and wonders why the numbers on his subs and his viewership differ so much, lol. That's the nature of clickbait. Get the views, but don't expect anyone to sub.
I discovered him during the pandemic and liked his content at the time but since then, he just gives off super childish, deliberately argumentative vibes and is just playing the shock jock card like you say. He's not really making meaningful content but instead, just trying to game the algorithm and coming across as a tool in the process
@@b1gnutt He's one of those engineers that no matter what, all of his shit sounds about the same. There are engineers who can use techniques that they've learned to capture the sound of a band. Then there are engineers who will just do what they know to create the same sound no matter who is in the studio. I believe Glenn is the latter. It's always funny when he references a band he's recorded as if everyone has heard of them, lol. He recently did that with a black metal band that looked like Creed, lol. I know he did some work on a Queensryche album (I believe it was the Geoff Tate iteration before he was forced to change the name) and they never paid him. I'm assuming it was because they didn't like what he did. Now, I don't blame them for not wanting to use his work, but they still should have paid him. Either way, he had to lean on UA-cam because engineers like that don't really make it in the professional world. He would have been doomed to record every local band within driving distance of his studio, lol.
Glenn did a followup video where he was a lot less over the top and inflammatory where he addresses the backlash to his video and explained that he does think amps can make a difference in tone, mentions he beta lead sounding different from a 5150, and that all he was trying to do was push the importance of speakers and mic placement, which is did agree were the most important in this video. While I appreciate his clarification and that he rocked down his persona to make it, perhaps in future if he doesn't want to be misunderstood he should be so hyperbolic and insulting, and he probably shouldn't make statements like, "it's not the amp, dumb@$s!" Or say that guitarists saying they hear the differences between their amps are just trying to cope with buying a whole bunch of amps. Those things taken literally are why there was this strong reaction to begin with.
I have both a Tri Rec and a 5150. The key point is that they can be tweaked to sound quite similar, which is true. The emphasis wasn't on them being similar on any setting, but rather on the fact that they can be dialed in to sound very close and still be usable. However, the settings at which they would sound similar aren't necessarily the sweet spot for either amp. It appears that you didn't make an effort to match the tones; instead, you simply highlighted the strengths of each amp. The implication wasn't that a scooped Mesa sounds identical to a tight Peavey. Just that you can dial these amps to sound similar. Which you absolutely can.
Yes, I agree. I think the point is you wouldn't need to buy a 5150 and a Dual Rec for different flavors. You could save your money and tweak either EQ to sound like the other.
I’m glad people are making videos like these. I wanted to do this, but I don’t own a rectifier anymore, only a 6505+ and a 5150. But I’ve worked with rectifiers plenty and they sound very different from a 6505 or 5150. I can get them to sound very close with major eq moves, but the amps inherent qualities are pretty different. I get the point Glenn was trying to make, speaker placement really does matter more than the amp in my experience, but I was left scratching my head wondering if he really did switch the amp at all in those clips. Even when watching the video, I thought that quip was really out of place and uncalled for. Like he snapped for an amicable disagreement. Idk, Glenn is a smart guy, I’ve learned quite a bit from his channel over the years, but seems like there are certain things you just can’t tell him anything about.
I agree with how important the speaker is too, I just don't like that he made it out like amps don't make big tonal change. He went out of his way to mislead people and threw insults all over the place while doing it. I wasn't down for that.
@@MetalHeadProductions 💯 yeah, completely agree. I’m hope that lots of people make videos calling this out. Glenn could have made the point without being dishonest about it or creating a fallacy that amp doesn’t matter. He doesn’t respond to pushback well at all. Calling people stupid and pushing them aside definitely doesn’t do anything but make him look arrogant and ignorant. I don’t really think he’s either, but sometimes the condescending a-hole act from him is a too much.
@@MetalHeadProductionsYou missed the point Glenn was trying to make. The fact that you can get them to sound the same belies the fact that you don't need to spend money on multiple amps. Any amp with a variable EQ can be made to sound like many other amps on the same speakers, with a bit of effort. The point is that amps are a trivial component in creating the final tone of your guitar. The primary function of an amp is to make a weak signal into a signal that can be heard by the audience.
@@greevar I guess no one saw the video of the guy dissecting way different amps and basically at their core, I think it was title something like “…where does the amp sound come from…”…essentially a super scientific deep dive into…they all sound the same, the path of electronics and eq is to voice it in a particular manner…I always thought Recto was just a more bloated low end 5150…they all stole from Mike Soldano design anyway…he even said it and Dave Friedman sort of agreed…it’s basically the same amp with some extensive electronic disguises and pathways. All started at the same source so you can absolutely in fact make them all sound similar.
To be clear, to point of this video wasn't to dial in these amps to try and make them sound as close as possible, the point was to use them how they each sound best, it was to refute the claim that amps don't make significant tonal differences, which clearly they can.
I'm not in any camp.... But he even stated that he wanted to make both amps sound nearly identical using same cab. I did this myself many times when recording, not wanting a huge difference between the amps I recorded. To be honest, your tones are way too different, Mesa being scooped sounding, 5150 having plenty of mids.
@@OrangeMicMusic dual recs sound best scoped and 5150s are all about the midrange. Their mids are in a really different place so I wouldn't be able to get them sounding identical without some kind of post EQ. Now, the point Glenn makes for twenty minutes is that big tone shifts happen with the speaker, not the amp, and clearly I showed that's not the case. I really don't get why you're trying to ignore the entire video and what he bluntly said multiple times. Don't make excuses for his hyperbolic bs.
If you dial them properly, they will sound the same. So your test proves nothing. Glenn said they were dialed to sound similar. So if you can make them sound extremely close with just an EQ, why bother buying different amps?
@@nicolaebreaban8154 yup also if you put the whole amp at noon on both amps should give a more direct comparison. I mean i can make the exact same amp sound diffrent so? But not as much as speaker
Glenn’s channel is the only UA-cam channel I’ve ever blocked from my algorithm. I got really tired of the bad info he was putting out there and feel like he’s not a reliable person to learn from. Glad that vids are shedding light on this cuz he’s misleading a lot of folks. Not everything he says is a falsehood, but he peppers enough of them in his content that it renders it worthless to me.
i don’t think glenn has ever said “every amp is the same” . he even mentions if you were to bring in a marshall there would be a significant difference . so who are you quoting ?
@@sexdigitaI I hadn’t seen the video by Glenn, only this one. I assumed it was the same as his “don’t change pickups, turn up the gain” argument, which is a very silly take. Pickups and amps often have vastly different EQ characteristics and respond to pedals, pushing and guitar volume/tone knobs very differently.
@@sexdigitaI seemed like a logical assumption based on the content of the video and the fact that that’s typically his argument-“this Harley Benton sounds the same as your ESP!” “This cheap pickup sounds the same as your (insert boutique pickup name here)!”
The one question i have, did you use a reamp box or did you play each riff multiple times? Im not on either side of this argument, but that does introduce another variable in tone.
Going off of what Glenn said, and also what Jim Lill uncovered in his video on amps, it's not that amps sound the same, it's that they *can* sound the same, or at least very similar, if dialed in a certain way. I appreciate that we have people like Glenn showing us that we're all up our own ass and we shouldn't care so much about gear and what the manufacturer tells us. I did a test last year about coil split humbuckers vs single coils because someone said they don't sound the same. In my test, they don't sound the same, but they all sound like single coils. Once I put them in a mix with no information about what guitars were actually being used, the ability to tell whether they were actual single coils or not went out the window. We gotta stop caring about getting specific pieces of gear and just make good music. 😅
I see Glen's point, "with EQ and software you can make amp A sound like amp B". And I whole heartedly agree. Now that being said, he completely misrepresented the AMOUNT of altering that is required. He made it seem like this would be simple and anyone could do it in a minute or two. Thanks for showing the EQing graph.
Oh nice, you did your own test... well what'dya know??? double confirmation. Thanks for doing this, I knew I wasn't crazy haha! You know what it is I think? When you mic up a cab with specific microphones it seems to NOT capture the ACTUAL tone / characteristics / and full spectrum of frequencies that you can hear in the room. It really does seem to filter a lot of it out and maybe that's why a dual rectifier and 5150 can both sound very very similar. I'm starting to wonder if there are better mics, maybe ribbon mic's that would do a much better job at recording how the amp actually sounds properly... because there is definitely a significant difference in tone between amps that gets picked up when using a direct input with an IR but it seems to get lost when you manually mic a cabinet especially with an sm57 for sure.
That would be another interesting test, actually (and could be done quite easily in the box). Use one of the plugins or IR sets that has a number of different microphone captures, and see how much the difference between amps is audible between different microphones.
Certain mics can really eliminate differences, like the tiny mics on cellphones for example, but I don't think that's what's going on here. I'm also frustrated at a lot of the comments denying Glenn said amps don't make big difference or they're upset I didn't try to dial them in to sound as close as possible, which misses the point, I'm just showing you can get big tone changes with just amps. I don't know why this so so hard for people.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yeah lots of commenters on my page claim I missed the point when it's them that don't get the point....I had to constantly point out the obvious. Back to my comment, I tried the same experiment with an sm57 and the differences were nowhere near as big compared to direct input and using IRs. Try it... That's why I wrote my previous lengthy comment. Maybe I'll make a video to demonstrate.
Could you repeat the experiment by tone matching (amp eq) one to sound as close as possible to the other? I am not doubting you and I am not doubting Glenn, or to put it better I am doubting all of you because I have not done the experiment myself but if by just turning a few knobs they are really that close that would prove Glenn's point, which is that you don't need another amp. I don't mean to come off as a smart-ass, I am just curious as to where the truth lies. Probably somewhere in the middle.
Why? That's not the point. The point was to show you can get big tonal differences between amps only with everything else the same, which Glenn said you couldn't. I have the amps set where I like them and without some post EQ I can't make them sound identical anyways. I don't know why people are so hung up on wanting me to try to match the tones on the amp, that's missing the entire point, I'm just calling out Glenn's misleading hyperbole.
@@MetalHeadProductions because that was Glenn’s point. Don’t spend money on a new amp or new valves, spend them on speakers, you can approximate the rest. At least that was his point last year, I can’t say I am a very regular viewer of his.
@@MetalHeadProductions The way I see it, if you match Glenn's results, we know for sure he tweaked the hell out of the amps to make them sound as close as possible. Probably more bs from his channel that you can debunk too.
Finally, people start to expose Glenn for the fraud he is. I sold off most of my amps because I have a QC now, but I've been playing guitar since 1989, so experience has shown me that what Glenn is saying is misleading. He sells IRs and he obviously has a relationship with Thomann because he can't get through a video without pushing their cabs. Since I sold most of my amps, I can't do a comparison, but I know he's full of shit. He isn't trying to save people money. He's trying to funnel it through himself. Which is fine if he was being honest.
Thanks for stepping up and doing your own testing, as one set of tests by one person does not constitute diffinitive findings. It's very important that bold claims are thoroughly and carefully examined. I've long thought that "EQ Matching" is one of the most amazing and powerful tools in audio.
He's not hiding the fact that he tweaked the eq of the amp to make them match. What he's saying is the speaker is what will make your sound change the most, at least in a context of a mix, and people should consider looking for an other speaker instead of spending thousands of dollars in a new head. I would love having a Glenn's response on this one, should be interesting
I mean he spent 20 minutes saying the amps sound identical because they have the same speaker, but sure we can interpret what he "actually meant." Regardless, I did a followup video that shows the midranges of these amps are in entirely different places and also that the rev g is permanently scooped where the 6505/5150 has all.of it's midrange, you might find that interesting. It's linked in the pinned comment.
I gave up on watching Flicker's videos a while ago, after similar videos - such as claiming all pickups sound the same. I have collected over the years a bunch of different pickups - something I'm interested on - and they sound and feel very different, less so under high gain, but still different. I don't know what Glenn does with his videos to make they sound the same, but I have ears and there's a big difference by simply switching them on my own setup. I also get he wants to be a consumer advocate and get people to not obsess over expensive boutique pickups, but I nonetheless found those videos misleading at best.
i agree with you, i guess when you have a bit of experience and you have a sufficient level at guitar to truly understand the nuances you understand that. but i guess most of his viewers are intermediate level guitar players who dont have enough skills to really make the difference, and glenns videos where everything is tone matched ( even to some ridiculous extent) is not helping. a big part of wht he is not mentionning is the response and feeling of pickups and amps, sure it doesnt always comes through in the mix but 99.9% of the time when were playing guitar is not in a recording session so pleasure is more important if you know what i mean
I think he was right because even in your clip they sound pretty much the same just different equalization. And since there's a million different ways to change EQ around, it's kind of like saying a Ford F-150 is pretty much the same as a Chevy Silverado.
They really don't though, really different midranges. Might want to check out my followup video where I show the mid ranges of the amps are in entirely different places.
Harsh whistle at 4kHz... That's something I'm solving right now and it's driving me crazy. Is this on all high gain amps? Do pickups accentuate it? I sometimes read people talking about this but then I watch a video where someone puts only high pass and low pass on their guitars and there is none of that... Is the only solution parametric EQ pedal in effects loop?
I don’t know about amps that much, but my local music store has a marshal 4x12 1960. It’s magic, pure and simple. It makes every head plugged into sound amazing.
I've seen a lot of Glenn's videos, and the guy surely enough is the voice of critical thinking. I do tend to believe in what he says based on what he shows us, like he does in the video in question, so I find it very refreshing to see that people actually challenge his claims the way he encourages people to do. I hope this doesn't end here, and that Glenn actually makes a proper response to this video, because it would appear that the both of you did carry out the test properly, and that leaves us with an interesting question of why the results differ so much. Maybe this could spark a collaboration of some sort between the two of you? I'd love to see that video 😃 Anyway, good work!
just curious, did you CALIBRATE both Input/Output (Gain/Volume) of both Heads ? (with EQ defeated/bypassed/off ) the MESAs ive had have more low end ... ymmv i can see how - side by side - both amps CAN be dialed back to sound the same but then neither have "the sound" character we buy them for. from a sound engineers perspective , it should not matter; if it works for a musician to Perform , in the best interest of the Song - there is no problem. i think a Line6 Spider amp to drive the same Cabs was also mentionned as a future vid. - good luck dialing in a usable "Metal" tone with that tho.
They're level matched, gain isn't far off, but I didn't match the EQs, wasn't about that, just about showing you can get big differences with just amps. I'd never argue amps, cabs and mics aren't the most significant difference.
I unsubbed from his channel a long time ago. These are two different amps and they have always had different characteristics. The fact that he even said that pickups have nearly nothing to do with tone makes me suspicious.
From my own experience, you can use EQ to make most high gain amps pretty much all sound the same. Yes they do have variations in the frequencies that are adjusted by their built in EQ pots but using an EQ pedal you can adjust these amps to all pretty much have the same sound, especially if you are using the same guitar cab with the various amps you are tweaking. IDK if that is what Glenn did in his video since I haven't watched it (his vids are pretty annoying) but this would make sense. One thing the Rectifier amps do have that some others do not is the extended low end response. This can be sort of added to amps that do not have this with EQ in the effects loop but the Rectifiers have this built in which is handy for brutal death metal type tones.
The mid range and really everything about my rev g is different than any of my other amps. Point is though, amps demonstrably can have a big impact on the tone, which Glenn said they don't.
It's crazy how different they sound given that they both come from SLO lineage. I've got a Mesa Trem-O-Verb right now. I've owned a few other variants in the past. I've owned a 6505, and played plenty of the other Peaveys, and Fender 5150s. While I can tweak a Recto to sound a lot more like a 5150: Orange channel, vintage mode, pull your highs all the way back, mids all the way up, back the bass to around 9-10 O'Clock, presence to taste, leave the channel volume high, and compensate with the master. That will get you in the ballpark. Every pot has a slightly different taper afterall. That being said, who would EVER think to EQ an amp like that unless they know the tone stack like that? Most people looking for heavy sounds with a Recto are going to use that signature Modern mode sound anyway. That's the sound everyone loves out of them. All that said, the reverse cannot be done. A 5150/6505 always sounds like itself. Even with the EQ in crazy places, it sounds like a 5150 variant. An angrier, gainier, less refined sounding little brother to it's Soldano relative. It's why myself and so many others love them.
after i saw his video "guitars dont matter" i was already sure that he is going to push the agenda that nothing makes big changes, just change speakers to the point where he will be saying that boss mt2 into poweramp sounds same like vht pitbull, because it is the cab that makes the difference :D the dude is just a joke and does clickbait stuff all the time nowadays
Great video and fully agree, i felt bad for Kaddy as he was singled out and made to look bad by Glenn and his large subscriber base, well out of order and almost bully like behaviour. Kaddy handled it well though and more of us so called dumb guitarists should back him up. Cheers! 👍🏻
I think Glen is addicted to being to having controversial guitar related opinions because it gives his channel a lot of extra attention and allows him and his audience to act smarmy. Also sometimes I wonder if he just has the world most colored signal chain. I've used some IRs that almost have no transparency to the sound.
No his point was the only thing that matters is the speaker and if you want big tonal changes, that's done by the speakers, which clearly you can get big differences with Amos as well. It's also worth saying I can't get my 6505 to sound identical to my rev g without big eq changes in post. Entirely different mid ranges, to put it mildly,.
@@MetalHeadProductions he says at the end about how people say hes a terrible studio engineer but at the same time ppl are complaining that he manipulated the the two amps to sound alike which would require some level of knowledge as a studio engineer so he was just trying to flex on everyone so basically by making this video you just proving that he actually a good studio engineer
@@Durkhead lol, what? I showed how little effort it takes to tone match something with the fabfilter. You're really reaching, man. Glenn said amps don't make a significant tonal difference, just the speakers do that, and I showed the amps can make a significant difference, as did kaddy.
Is it not the case that the Dual Rec was somewhat of a takeoff from (or Mesa's answer to) the 5150/SLO style sound that was around at the time? I have very little experience with 6505 and Dual Rec amps, and zero experience with Soldanos or the original Peavey 5150's (although I've played through the EVH 5150's). As far as I can remember with the Dual Rec, they have that somewhat similar "sag" that the 5150/6505 amps are known for. That being said, the Dual Rec still has that distinct Mesa tone and is a bit drier sounding than the 6505/5150. This is as much of a feel thing as it is a sound thing. Just my 2 cents. I find this an interesting topic of discussion.
Each of them had their own little changes. The midranges are pretty different on the two amps. Dual rec is more difficult to deal with but it's less compressed and has a different feel for sure.
@MetalHeadProductions I've got a Mesa Mark V which I know are incredibly mid-heavy. Are Dual Rectfifiers similar in that way as well? Meaning, you'd need to "scoop" the mids to make it less harsh sounding? I remember playing a 50W EVH 5150 through a 2x12 cabinet, and it was incredibly easy to dial in. I find the challenge with the Mark V amps is to find the point at which there's just enough mid-range to cut the air, but not so much that it causes the ears to fatigue quickly. And improperly EQ'd Mesa Boogie is almost painful to listen to LOLOL.
I did a followup video that I put in a pinned comment on why they sound different, and it comes down to their midranges are very different. The mid control on the 6505 affects 500-1k, which is already naturally scooped on the dual rec as it turns out, and the dual rec's mid control affects 250-500hz.
I actually have to agree.. I do own both amps and they do sound completely different from each other in my experience. I mean sometimes i can listen to a song and pin point that they were using rectifiers. Rectos has such a unique sound to them and in my experience its way different to my 5150/6505
This isnt to challenge your results, as they line up with what many would expect (the sound each amp is known for) but did you try to use the amp eq to get them as close as possible, id think you should be able to get them matched up a little more, not identical but close. Ive found the main difference in tube amps tends to be the eq, so simply adding an eq pedal or in post can make most amps match up almost identically, even if theres some fairly large differences in design. In that case, it doesnt make sense to buy an extra tube head for what amounts to eq.
The point wasn't to try to EQ them as close as possible. I still can get them super close without an outside EQ because of the midrange differences between them, but Glenn said over and over that big tone differences don't come from amps, they come from the speaker. I agreed the biggest difference was the speaker, even said to try different cabs and speakers before buying a bunch of amps, but this video shows you can get big tonal differences with just amps as well.
You run the presence pretty low and mids pretty high on the 6505. how much time did you actually spend on using the amp controls to get them as close as possible? My guess is, that you could make the 6505 sound much closer to the rectifier, but you probably couldn’t achieve the sound you dialed in on the 6505 with the rectifier. In my experience amps do matter, but you can get most pretty close to each other
I don't run them as close as possible, I run them sounding best. Their mid ranges are in very different places. The mids in the rev g are lower, around 750-500hz and and the 6505 is higher up and more nasal. Regardless, that shouldn't matter right, if it's all the speaker? His whole point was you don't get big tonal shifts with different amps, you get them with the speaker and I have demonstrated you can indeed get big tone differences with just the amo. My rev g sounds nothing like any of my other amps, and I can't get any of them sounding like it without some big EQ moves in post. With how perfectly identical Glenn's amps sounded, there is something up.
@@MetalHeadProductions Well his point is use the eq on the amp before spending thousands of dollars. And I think he has a point to a degree. I think if the eq curves allows for it, it is fair game. No matter what you consider „big EQ moves“. For example check out how Josh Middleton dials in his 6505. mids almost off and it sounds much more in the ballpark than you make it seem here. For some people that approximation might be good enough. I personally don’t buy a 6505 to make it sound like a rectifier and prefer a tone much closer to what you dialed in. But before you spend 2k on a rev g maybe try using the eq to match it as closely as you can. (If you are only after one rhythm sound you like, that is. Of course the amps differ in many other ways which might warrant a purchase)
@@Patrick-rf7vx no his point was literally that big tone shifts don't come from Amos. He stays several times in the video, and I was able to show you absolutely can get big tonal shifts with amps. Honestly Glenn couldn't have been more clearly, why with trying to shift goal posts. The 6505 sounds good with the mids around 6 and the dual rec is better a bit scooped because it's midrange is in that wooden, horrible sounding area around 500-750hz, which again is beside the point, which is that you can absolutely get significant tonal changes with just amps.
@@MetalHeadProductions I would never guessed that some day I will have to defend Glenn, but at 12:00 minutes in the video he EXACTLY touches on this point. I think he could have made that portion a lot bigger part of the video, but you are wrong here. Some amps just have different designs/and or values for the pots. I think you are being intellectually lazy if you don't consider this and try to compensate for that with the controls (that are there to be used!!!). For Example: The presence of my revv generator red channel sounds at 5 exactly like a 6505's presence at 8. I don't go around and say that the 6505 is much darker just because it is when set both to 5. That would be stupid. Sorry to be that harsh, but you are being lazy.
@@Patrick-rf7vx cool so you're going to quote mine he and I to try and make a video where he calls guitarists dumb for thinking the amp can make a difference to the tone stupid, talked about when he got a framus cobra it sounded like his other amps, and had a thumbnail of the two amps on the trash on fire, that video wasn't actually about what glen said it was all because you say so.
I think the 6505 and Rectifier are probably the worst options to try to suggest that amps sound different being that their preamp topology is both based on the SLO. Like maybe a Fryette Pittbull vs an Orange Rockerverb. Or an SLO vs a Mark IV. Glenn is also a fantastic moron.
I am a guitar player but also have built amps. The issue with guitar players is that, like many artists, a lot is about how it "feels". Technically speaking the two amps in question are very very close designs. The major differences lie in the power amp and the pot tapers and values. In reality you CAN make them sound the same. Do they sound the same at the same settings - no. Additionally there's this thing that always gets ignored which is component tolerances. The components in ALL amps are not picked to make a precision instrument, it's not a sniper rifle. This is the reason why players expirience the "I played a jcm 800 before but this one particular one has the mojo!". And that's the truth, the whole truth and nothing bit the truth
Glenn must have reached the end of the outrage he could generate dunking on Gibson and decided to move on to something else. I don't click on his videos with clickbait titles.
I can't believe much of what Glen says. I'll leave it there and watch actual informative stuff like this instead. People need to stop fixating on "what makes the most difference" in a chain where every component matters to some extent. Figuring out how each component of a chain effects each other is a useful skill and encourages people to experiment. Good video.
Glen is annoying. Can’t stand his videos. Probably wouldn’t like him as a person either. I don’t find any value in his videos. Yours are cool though. I watch them from time to time.
I find a lot of Glenn's stuff to be very factually accurate, but I also find that his attempt to be a shock jock and be childish can lead him to parking himself on the corner of WRONG street and FAFO avenue with his foot knee deep in his mouth from time to time. It's why I refuse to get all my guitar and recording info from a single source, because Glenn is just like everyone else - human, and not entirely infallible. He's not immune to getting caught in public stroking his ego to completion, or just being plain wrong. I treat every source of every information this way, from news to computer and music gear reviews.
Good video. Sadly Glenn is totally missing the point of making each amp sound it's best on it's own and THEN comparing them, instead of making them sound similar. Yes, if you try to make things sound similar, they sound similar, duh. What a revelation. You don't buy an amp to make it sound like another amp. That's what a mental rock would do.
Even still, I did a followup video on this and showed the midranges for these amps are in entirely different places, the dual rec's is much lower which is why it sounds better scooped because it's getting rid of that muddy frequencies and the 6505 has the mids much higher which is why the amp cuts in a mix so well and sounds better with the mids boosted. I can't get them to sound as identical as he did without post EQ which I suspect, but can't prove he did.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yes, that and: some of the best producers/engineers out there quad track rhythm guitars with different amps. If they'd sound THE SAME ... that would make no sense. If quadtracking with 2 different amps is fair game, because the amps sound different enough to alter the result, they sound different enough on their own.
Thank you for this video! I own one Rev D, three Ref F, four Rev G, one 3 channels and two multiwatts and... all these Rectos sound DIFFERENT ! There is no one Recto sound, there are many. Glenn is right about the speakers, but he is wrong about the amp because his message comes from the mix engineer perspective, not from the guitar player for whom the amp is a source of inspiration. Changing the amp has an impact on the way you play. Never forget that golden rule : the audio chain is a chain. Every part of the chain (the sound of the room included), every change, has something to bring in the final tone. In the Glenn clip, the sound is muddy garbage piece of shit, I can't even recognize a Recto !!! Glenn Fricker is not Mike Fraser or Andy Sneap. He is just a youtuber...
When I heard him say that, I kind of laughed because i know he's trying to get the community to fire up. You can make the amps sound the same but that can only happen if you EQ the amps close as you can, do post processing, and boost the dual/triple rectifier and switch toe rectifier to modern mode. An unboosted dual or triple rectifier sounds a bit tubby or muddy while the 5150 is tight. Hell, even my quad cortex has both 5150 and dual rectifier captures and they sound way different
He tried to get out in front of digital amps sounding different, ironically saying they do stuff to the digital amps to make them sound different to sell them, which is prob true to a degree.
Let me play devils advocate. Those two amps do sound pretty close. The distortion has a very simular structure... It's not like the difference between an hm2 and ds1. That said his statement would mean all amps sound similar. Orange vs marshall vs slo clones vs fenders these amps are very different. My katana can sound like many things and to that arguments yes amps can sound alike but only if the amp has the ability to hit certain levels of saturation and has the ability to tone match. Using an eq after doesn't count IMHO.
@@hfrhkiuffbkiyfc sure, pickups in the end result aren't going to make a massive difference in tone for high gain, however what's missing is the player side of things there. Personally I don't want a pickup that's lower output where I have to struggle to get the performance I want, I don't want them to be thin but too much low-end pushes a preamp and pedals in a way I don't like either, gotta have the chunky palm mites without the mud and I want it to pair well with an overdrive without again getting super thin, I want chord clarity under high gain, I want the top end to sit in a butter zone between having enough for clarity, nice pick attack and so it doesn't sound dull, but not so much that it gets that ice pick thing into high gain or with an overdrive. All of this matters less for the final product in a mix, but matters a lot to me as a player, for how everything feels and performs for me.
@MetalHeadProductions that's... pretty much my exact thoughts on the matter. Well said. I'm stoned at the moment so might have replied to another comment but I have a triple rec solo head and a 6505 1x12 and I've ran them both all else equal through a mesa v30 2x12 and just by listening alone I'm getting similar differences as you are.
@@hfrhkiuffbkiyfc well I did a followup video to this showing the mid range of both amps, and it turns out they're in different places so that's a lot of the reason the sound different.
Mesa, lot boxier and muddier. Obviously more bass frequency. 6505, more bite and brilliance. I think GF’s videos have more of a postproduction approach, when a lot of adjustments have been done after miccing and mixing, obviously giving the impression that everything is a lot flatter and more lineal. In my experience amps differ dramatically before they are mixed and mastered. Of course compressing and limiting to death will make everything sound the same
It would be cool to do an experiment where you dial in a tone you like on one amp, then try to recreate the same tone in the other by modifying setings. I imagine that some sounds could be achieved with both amps while others sounds would have a much greater difference.
I get Glenn's point about amps being able to sound alike. But that also negates the fact that not everyone wants their amp to sound the way he dialed them in to get that result.
Well if that was just his point I would have left it alone, but I felt like there was some EQ behind the scenes to get the amps so identical, can't prove it, just seems like it, and he said what was making the amps sound identical was the speaker and that big tone differences come from the speaker not the amp. I showed you can get big differences from the amp to illustrate he's being hyperbolic and dishonest. I added with him with how significant and important speakers, mics and cabs are.
@@MetalHeadProductions I think he said he dialed them in to be as close as possible and I assumed he meant using the EQ on the amps themselves… but to be honest, it wasn’t my favorite tone for either amp. Definitely not one I would want to use in a mix. He may have done something in post, but that isn’t provable like you say. The advantage of having a different amp and circuit to create gain is that they will have different tolerances, ranges and responses. Can you make them sound alike, possibly, but likely at the expense of their optimal tone. The speaker is the ultimate equalizer, but it has to respond to the frequencies being pushed into it. It might be interesting to try in a real world setting if you can get both amps to sound alike using amp EQ only, and what you would have to do to accomplish that.
@@BaritoneGoatStudio the 6505 sound good setup in ways the dual rec doesn't, and vise versa, that's why it's good to have other amps. Also how they take pedals and whatnot. I just don't like the hyperbolic misinformation.
Sorry Bro, BUT the Peavey has too much mids and the Rectifier has too much Presence. Even your EQ-Curve shows it at 3:17 onwards. If you dial different sounds in, you cant compare them.
Might want to go check out my followup video where I specifically compare the mids and show the 6505 midrange controls 500-1khz, whereas the rev g is scooped 500-1k and it's mid control effects 250-500hz. Also the point of the video is to show big tonal shifts can happen just with amps.
You can sit around and mangle amps to sound however you want, that's not really how people go about jamming, writing, or making a record. They use the sounds they like!
Please set both amps at noon- which is supposed to be the sweet spot for most high gain amps. In the screen capture, it looked like the knobs on both amps are set to your taste, not noon for both heads. Also, the point of the video was to save people money. Shows that speakers are very important. Often more important than the amp itself. I’ve run a jet city, old Carvin and a b-52, and at gain, with the same guitar, they were all kind of the same, if i set up the tone, pedals, and gain stages the same. But change a Randall cab to a Marshall cab, a slant from a bottom, and I’ll see a huge different in tone. As to his tips on recording, I’ve been following him since 2017. In the past year and a half, I’ve taken mixing much more serious, and his tips, his review livestreams, and advice have taken my mixes to a night and day difference. So, i feel he’s doing something right. Is his persona a bit over the top? Yeah, but like most things on the internet, it’s theater. High praise for your video. I’d just like to have seen both heads at noon all the way across. And a mic’ed cab, rather than IR. Because the mic also plays a part….
Who said that's supposed to be the sweet spot for high gain amps? It's not and it's where either of these amps sound best, especially the dual rec. That mid range will start sounding awful. This wasn't about setting them the same, it was about showing you can get large tonal changes with just the amp. I agreed with Glenn that the speakers make the biggest difference, I just didn't like he was misleading people that amps can't make a big difference as well.
@@MetalHeadProductions 100% agree. This is especially true for most Bogner amps. They use audio (logarithmic) taper pots so noon will specifically sound different versus a linear taper pot amp. This is why Bogners get the misconception of being "darker" amps because you need to set the treble to around 6-8/10 to be equivalent to a Marshall amp at noon.
It goes back to what Glenn mentioned. Knobs change things - if you can make them sound almost identical by simpmy turning knobs what else needs to be explained? The 5150/6505 and dual rect are based off the SLO 100 - different enough to dodge a lawsuit. The irony of tone policing a video about tone. Love it.
The family of amps that we know as the 5150 and Dual Recto were released starting in 1992. Rectos have (and still are) more expensive then 5150's. If Glen's statement was even remotely true, then why would anyone have bothered buying a Recto?
BTW, thanks for making a video where a civil discussion could be had about this topic. I am, and have been, completely over Frickers "rage over everything". approach for some time now. There is no need to be a sh!thead when discussing guitar amps, thanks for being a calm professional. I hope things are better in your world.
For sure, and I also did a follow-up video showing the two amps have really different midranges which is why they sound different even with the same speaker. I pinned that video in the comments.
I'm fairly convinced at this point that he's a classic case of "I SPEAK REALLY LOUD AND BRASH SO I MUST BE HONEST!!!!! (though I'm actually lying half the time)" and I lost patience for him 343768672 ridiculous takes ago ("you can't mix on headphones" and "you're an idiot if you buy an Axe FX instead of a Marshall" were my breaking point). Also, even if he somehow got the two amps to sound this close (REALLY doubt it), that means nothing because there is a slight overlap, but also lots of things each amp can do that the other can't. Pretty sure you can get most "metal" amps to approximate some mid-gain setting on a Fender, but yeah that's about where the similarities end.
Something I just thought about that someone either trying to make or refute this claim can do. All the knobs on the 5150 are big arrows that make it plain as day where the settings are just by looking, whereas the dual rec just has blank, circular knobs. If you were to say "i put all the knobs at 12'o clock", with both amps in the shot in the video, we'd clearly see that's the case with the 5150, but we'd be none the wiser if you happened to change any of the knobs on the dual rec. Invalidating any claim either in favor or against
I didn't set these the same and say I did though, and neither did glenn. The bass and treble were the same, but the midrange controls control different frequencies. 6505 sounds better pushing the mids a bit so the mids were just past noon and the dual rec mid control sounds better just below noon because it's midrange controls the lower mids which don't sound very good. I did match the settings in a followup video I did where I sweep the mid controls for both Amos so you can see they're in entirely different places. It's linked in the pinned comment. On and you missed the point, it wasn't to make the amps sound the same, just to show you could get big tone differences between two amps.
According to glen I may as well play a toys r us hello kitty guitar into an AM radio wired to a V30 in a cereal box since that should be all that matters right? Oh also, if I disagree I’m pulling this out of my butt.
Everything in the signal chain makes a difference, heck even the instrument cable does. Yea, the speaker is a huge part but amp makes a huge difference too, some amps sound like shit. For these saturated metal tones the amp makes a lesser difference than lower gain amps, but it still makes a difference. I really don’t understand why this is supposed to be an issue. I’ve had people bring shitty amps to my studio, if I can’t get a good tone out of it I offer them to use my gear. Yea not all amps sound the same.
I think Glenn is good at showing that we are probably overly focusing on certain details rather than the big picture. (good song writing, speakers and cabinets ect...) However, I do agree with you here, that these do not sound extremely similar. Can they both overlap and do a lot of the same things? Sure. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you are looking for the details that make that last 5-10% difference, I think a lot of things Glenn writes off as useless (amps and pickups in particular) have a place.
This is exactly why I unsubscribed and quit watching Glenn’s videos. He looks for reactions and acts pissy when someone calls him on his stuff. He’s a child that only wants to get his way instead of being open.
Obviously Glen is wrong. Both amps sound very different. We all agree that the cab and the speaker has the most impact but that doesnt mean that the amp doesnt play a role.
In the world of science research, the common practice with publishing a paper on a discovery, the exact methods used by the lab are included. I think Glenn should probably show his exact process and let others try to duplicate his results. I'm not a super hi gain amp sort of person but I'd assume that Glenn probably tried to make those amps sound the same as opposed to just dialing in the tone that the amp inspires or delivers most easily. Your Mesa was very fizzy compared to the more boxy peavy. Those sounds would definitely lead one to believe the amps are massively different. I would guess there's a technique to A/B them and dial in more similar tones but the controls might be wildly different.
Not one of Glen's finest moments, going on like that, but, even in this video, all I am hearing is that the amps are louder in different frequency ranges. One could probably EQ these amps to sound just about identical.
Just because certain amps can be dialed in in a similar way doesn't mean that's the way you would dial these in like that. It'll probably not be the way you want a certain amp to sound, I guess. Maybe you want a certain sound/feel out of an amp because that's the way that amp sounds best (to you). Then there's also the sound in the room, the feel of an amp, not everyone is just focussing on recording, which Glenn really does, that's his thing, I get it. So yeah, I'd still love a Dual Rectifier (or Badlander, who knows, at least when these are available again in the EU, which, apparently, should be soon) and 5150 type/variant. Let's keep this fun for everyone, shall we? ;)
I think his point was to say that both amps can be dialled in to sound very similar (or identical). You can do the same test with two of the same amps and keep the settings same and they will probably sound a bit different. I don't understand why you don't say that. Your video is a bit misleading by itself. Just say that they can be dialled in to sound similar. Also can you dial in a Fencer Twin reverb to sound like a mesa? probably not because thag circuit is completely different. But when the circuits are similar you can dial them in. Now are the matched tones the sweet spot for those amps? that depends on your taste.
Actually I did a followup video to show the mid range frequencies are in entirely different places. The dual rec mid range adjusts a much lower frequency spectrum, closer to 500hz, than the 6505 which was much higher, around 1000hz. They also have completely different presence controls where the dual rec's is very different from most amps and almost acts like an additional treble control, just post distortion so the top end was very different on both. I show the EQs pretty clearly in that video. As for this, I know what point Glenn was trying to make but instead of just emphasizing speakers and mics are the most important thing when it comes to tone, which I agree with, he went out of his way to be hyperbolic, misleading, cause as I said the mid ranges are wildly different and I'd like to know what he did to get the tones sounding so close, and decided to publicly ridicule and shame a small UA-camr for no real good reason.
If you EQ match the amps then yeah, they are going to sound very similar. But neither of the sound clips in Glenn's video sounded good. Why? Because to do what he did you have to set both amps up so that they can match tones. Set up a rectifier to sound good, then set up a 5150 to sound good. They don't sound the same.
So in general, every amp sounds different doesn't matter if its a real amp or an amp sim, they all sound different. So you guys are right about that and glenn is wrong in that category.
Could the disconnect here possibly be that a handful of amps kind of based on the same style of circuit COULD achieve the same or similar tones if dialed in to sound like each other? Sure, they’re all gonna sound different if you start them all at noon on the knobs. But I’m assuming Glenn kept dialing them until they sounded the same… Much like what Josh at JHS did with the bad monkey and the Klon. It’s not so much that the amps sound and work identically… But that if you play around with them enough, you could pretty much achieve the same tone if you know what you’re doing. It’s still misleading if he didn’t just say that… But that doesn’t mean he didn’t pull off the same tone necessarily with enough tweaking.
Problem is I did a followup video to this where I show the midranges on the amps are in wildly different places and getting the amps to sound as identical as he did would require me to match them in post. It's also not really being upfront if it takes a bunch of work to get two amps to similar in the one setting where they might have some overlap and then present that to the audience as these amps sound the same. The dual rec's midrange is in the low mids, which is why it sounds better scooped. The 5150's midrange is higher around 750-1k where tube screamer normally boosts which is why those amps typically sound better pushing the midrange and why the amps sit so well in a mix. At best he's being disingenuous and while doing so, he's being an ass to some small UA-camr.
I think the problem with Glenn's video is he is using super low tuned guitars, which is going to make it harder to find a difference between amps. Glenn does have valid points about speakers, but amps, tonewood, speakers, playing style, all add up.
Glen has been EQ matching (at best) for years and I’ve called him out and he never responded once. Cause his PV iconic vs OG 5150 video was ridiculous and I had both amps and Mr science didn’t want to actually DO scientific shit and send me his exact settings cause if it could turn out the same then voila! But he’s a clown and I stopped watching his vids awhile ago. Trust me, you won’t miss his content
Here is a brief follow-up to this video. just wanted to show that the midrange controls effect different frequencies. The 6505 midrange control adjusts around 500hz-1k, while the rev G dual rec is more scooped in that same range, and the mid control on the rev G is around 250-500hz. I think this more than anything is why the two amps usually sound different from each other and thought this information might be interesting to some people.
ua-cam.com/video/xFXR8lB3gpM/v-deo.html&ab_channel=MetalheadProductions
Good job. Yeah, I've played both amps quite a bit. The amount I had to push the dual rectifier to get the gain in the same ball park as a 5150 on like 3 was ridiculous. Even just the gain character of both amps was a bit different, with the dual rec being so much drier. This was also a mid 2000's rev (G I think?)
Thanks, man. I just wanted to show that Amos can make a big tone difference in there own, you know. Don't need people thinking every amp sounds the same with the same speaker, although I did go out of my way to same the biggest impact to tone is the speaker, cab and mics, would never argue against that.
Just to note, Glenn did address this in his video. He does admit that he dialed them in to be as close as possible, and the point of doing that in his words was to show that if one amp can be dialed in to sound nearly identical to the other (especially in a full mix context), then why buy both of them? Hence I believe he was attempting to show how one does not need to buy a ton of different amps based around the same base circuit, instead buy 1 and you can dial it in as you need, and then use speakers / cabs / mics to alter it even futher.
There it is.
this guy gets it.
This is the lesson people need to learn from Glenn's videos.
Precisely dude!
Yea bro took away the wrong lesson from glens video.
Without wanting to be disrespectful, Glenn just likes to play the Shock Jock card a lot of the time, some people might find it funny and entertaining, but others might find it childish, and more importantly factually incorrect at times, I fall into the latter category, so I just choose not to watch his stuff.
totally agree.
It's funny because he has become a click bait whore and wonders why the numbers on his subs and his viewership differ so much, lol. That's the nature of clickbait. Get the views, but don't expect anyone to sub.
I discovered him during the pandemic and liked his content at the time but since then, he just gives off super childish, deliberately argumentative vibes and is just playing the shock jock card like you say. He's not really making meaningful content but instead, just trying to game the algorithm and coming across as a tool in the process
He talks a big game but really hasn't done anything note worthy as a producer or musician. Respectfully
@@b1gnutt He's one of those engineers that no matter what, all of his shit sounds about the same. There are engineers who can use techniques that they've learned to capture the sound of a band. Then there are engineers who will just do what they know to create the same sound no matter who is in the studio. I believe Glenn is the latter. It's always funny when he references a band he's recorded as if everyone has heard of them, lol. He recently did that with a black metal band that looked like Creed, lol. I know he did some work on a Queensryche album (I believe it was the Geoff Tate iteration before he was forced to change the name) and they never paid him. I'm assuming it was because they didn't like what he did. Now, I don't blame them for not wanting to use his work, but they still should have paid him. Either way, he had to lean on UA-cam because engineers like that don't really make it in the professional world. He would have been doomed to record every local band within driving distance of his studio, lol.
Glenn did a followup video where he was a lot less over the top and inflammatory where he addresses the backlash to his video and explained that he does think amps can make a difference in tone, mentions he beta lead sounding different from a 5150, and that all he was trying to do was push the importance of speakers and mic placement, which is did agree were the most important in this video.
While I appreciate his clarification and that he rocked down his persona to make it, perhaps in future if he doesn't want to be misunderstood he should be so hyperbolic and insulting, and he probably shouldn't make statements like, "it's not the amp, dumb@$s!" Or say that guitarists saying they hear the differences between their amps are just trying to cope with buying a whole bunch of amps. Those things taken literally are why there was this strong reaction to begin with.
I have both a Tri Rec and a 5150. The key point is that they can be tweaked to sound quite similar, which is true. The emphasis wasn't on them being similar on any setting, but rather on the fact that they can be dialed in to sound very close and still be usable. However, the settings at which they would sound similar aren't necessarily the sweet spot for either amp. It appears that you didn't make an effort to match the tones; instead, you simply highlighted the strengths of each amp. The implication wasn't that a scooped Mesa sounds identical to a tight Peavey. Just that you can dial these amps to sound similar. Which you absolutely can.
Yes, I agree. I think the point is you wouldn't need to buy a 5150 and a Dual Rec for different flavors. You could save your money and tweak either EQ to sound like the other.
I think it’s cool that amps can be tweaked to sound really similar.
But it also makes sense that they’d be able to do their own kind of sound.
I’m glad people are making videos like these. I wanted to do this, but I don’t own a rectifier anymore, only a 6505+ and a 5150. But I’ve worked with rectifiers plenty and they sound very different from a 6505 or 5150. I can get them to sound very close with major eq moves, but the amps inherent qualities are pretty different. I get the point Glenn was trying to make, speaker placement really does matter more than the amp in my experience, but I was left scratching my head wondering if he really did switch the amp at all in those clips. Even when watching the video, I thought that quip was really out of place and uncalled for. Like he snapped for an amicable disagreement. Idk, Glenn is a smart guy, I’ve learned quite a bit from his channel over the years, but seems like there are certain things you just can’t tell him anything about.
I agree with how important the speaker is too, I just don't like that he made it out like amps don't make big tonal change. He went out of his way to mislead people and threw insults all over the place while doing it. I wasn't down for that.
@@MetalHeadProductions 💯 yeah, completely agree. I’m hope that lots of people make videos calling this out. Glenn could have made the point without being dishonest about it or creating a fallacy that amp doesn’t matter. He doesn’t respond to pushback well at all. Calling people stupid and pushing them aside definitely doesn’t do anything but make him look arrogant and ignorant. I don’t really think he’s either, but sometimes the condescending a-hole act from him is a too much.
@@MetalHeadProductionsYou missed the point Glenn was trying to make. The fact that you can get them to sound the same belies the fact that you don't need to spend money on multiple amps. Any amp with a variable EQ can be made to sound like many other amps on the same speakers, with a bit of effort. The point is that amps are a trivial component in creating the final tone of your guitar. The primary function of an amp is to make a weak signal into a signal that can be heard by the audience.
@@greevar I guess no one saw the video of the guy dissecting way different amps and basically at their core, I think it was title something like “…where does the amp sound come from…”…essentially a super scientific deep dive into…they all sound the same, the path of electronics and eq is to voice it in a particular manner…I always thought Recto was just a more bloated low end 5150…they all stole from Mike Soldano design anyway…he even said it and Dave Friedman sort of agreed…it’s basically the same amp with some extensive electronic disguises and pathways. All started at the same source so you can absolutely in fact make them all sound similar.
To be clear, to point of this video wasn't to dial in these amps to try and make them sound as close as possible, the point was to use them how they each sound best, it was to refute the claim that amps don't make significant tonal differences, which clearly they can.
I have a loot of amps and preamps and my results are the same that your results.
I'm not in any camp....
But he even stated that he wanted to make both amps sound nearly identical using same cab. I did this myself many times when recording, not wanting a huge difference between the amps I recorded. To be honest, your tones are way too different, Mesa being scooped sounding, 5150 having plenty of mids.
@@OrangeMicMusic dual recs sound best scoped and 5150s are all about the midrange. Their mids are in a really different place so I wouldn't be able to get them sounding identical without some kind of post EQ.
Now, the point Glenn makes for twenty minutes is that big tone shifts happen with the speaker, not the amp, and clearly I showed that's not the case. I really don't get why you're trying to ignore the entire video and what he bluntly said multiple times. Don't make excuses for his hyperbolic bs.
If you dial them properly, they will sound the same.
So your test proves nothing.
Glenn said they were dialed to sound similar.
So if you can make them sound extremely close with just an EQ, why bother buying different amps?
@@nicolaebreaban8154 yup also if you put the whole amp at noon on both amps should give a more direct comparison. I mean i can make the exact same amp sound diffrent so? But not as much as speaker
Glenn’s channel is the only UA-cam channel I’ve ever blocked from my algorithm. I got really tired of the bad info he was putting out there and feel like he’s not a reliable person to learn from. Glad that vids are shedding light on this cuz he’s misleading a lot of folks. Not everything he says is a falsehood, but he peppers enough of them in his content that it renders it worthless to me.
You are being very diplomatic about telling people, that Glenn is misleading people just for clickbait.
Hm, yes-let’s put a Matamp GT120 against an Engl Fireball and see how long that ”every amp is the same” theory holds up
i don’t think glenn has ever said “every amp is the same” . he even mentions if you were to bring in a marshall there would be a significant difference . so who are you quoting ?
@@sexdigitaI I hadn’t seen the video by Glenn, only this one. I assumed it was the same as his “don’t change pickups, turn up the gain” argument, which is a very silly take. Pickups and amps often have vastly different EQ characteristics and respond to pedals, pushing and guitar volume/tone knobs very differently.
@@dustincleary8161 gotta love when people don’t even watch the video and assume !
@@sexdigitaI seemed like a logical assumption based on the content of the video and the fact that that’s typically his argument-“this Harley Benton sounds the same as your ESP!” “This cheap pickup sounds the same as your (insert boutique pickup name here)!”
@@sexdigitaI Exactly. You have so many people missing the point. Just flew right over their heads.
The one question i have, did you use a reamp box or did you play each riff multiple times? Im not on either side of this argument, but that does introduce another variable in tone.
Just played each part, don't have a preamp box, but it's not going to cause any kind of noticable tone shift here.
Thanks for taking the time to do this video 🔥💪🔥
Tubes change the tone to. I dont care what anyone says. I can hear and feel it. Yes speakers are important to
Going off of what Glenn said, and also what Jim Lill uncovered in his video on amps, it's not that amps sound the same, it's that they *can* sound the same, or at least very similar, if dialed in a certain way. I appreciate that we have people like Glenn showing us that we're all up our own ass and we shouldn't care so much about gear and what the manufacturer tells us. I did a test last year about coil split humbuckers vs single coils because someone said they don't sound the same. In my test, they don't sound the same, but they all sound like single coils. Once I put them in a mix with no information about what guitars were actually being used, the ability to tell whether they were actual single coils or not went out the window. We gotta stop caring about getting specific pieces of gear and just make good music. 😅
Finally people are pointing out Glenn’s Dogma. He will talk about things being bad such as amp modeling and “fake” drums right up he is selling them…
That did bother me, he talked trash about drum samples for years then sold his own and said they were better. never liked that.
@@MetalHeadProductionsNow that he is selling IRs, it seems like there's a pattern.
@@travisspaulding2222oh jeez, his free IR is the worst sounding IR I've heard. I can't imagine HIM selling IRs now....
I see Glen's point, "with EQ and software you can make amp A sound like amp B". And I whole heartedly agree. Now that being said, he completely misrepresented the AMOUNT of altering that is required. He made it seem like this would be simple and anyone could do it in a minute or two. Thanks for showing the EQing graph.
Oh nice, you did your own test... well what'dya know??? double confirmation. Thanks for doing this, I knew I wasn't crazy haha! You know what it is I think? When you mic up a cab with specific microphones it seems to NOT capture the ACTUAL tone / characteristics / and full spectrum of frequencies that you can hear in the room. It really does seem to filter a lot of it out and maybe that's why a dual rectifier and 5150 can both sound very very similar. I'm starting to wonder if there are better mics, maybe ribbon mic's that would do a much better job at recording how the amp actually sounds properly... because there is definitely a significant difference in tone between amps that gets picked up when using a direct input with an IR but it seems to get lost when you manually mic a cabinet especially with an sm57 for sure.
That would be another interesting test, actually (and could be done quite easily in the box). Use one of the plugins or IR sets that has a number of different microphone captures, and see how much the difference between amps is audible between different microphones.
Certain mics can really eliminate differences, like the tiny mics on cellphones for example, but I don't think that's what's going on here.
I'm also frustrated at a lot of the comments denying Glenn said amps don't make big difference or they're upset I didn't try to dial them in to sound as close as possible, which misses the point, I'm just showing you can get big tone changes with just amps. I don't know why this so so hard for people.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yeah lots of commenters on my page claim I missed the point when it's them that don't get the point....I had to constantly point out the obvious. Back to my comment, I tried the same experiment with an sm57 and the differences were nowhere near as big compared to direct input and using IRs. Try it... That's why I wrote my previous lengthy comment. Maybe I'll make a video to demonstrate.
Could you repeat the experiment by tone matching (amp eq) one to sound as close as possible to the other? I am not doubting you and I am not doubting Glenn, or to put it better I am doubting all of you because I have not done the experiment myself but if by just turning a few knobs they are really that close that would prove Glenn's point, which is that you don't need another amp.
I don't mean to come off as a smart-ass, I am just curious as to where the truth lies. Probably somewhere in the middle.
Why? That's not the point. The point was to show you can get big tonal differences between amps only with everything else the same, which Glenn said you couldn't. I have the amps set where I like them and without some post EQ I can't make them sound identical anyways.
I don't know why people are so hung up on wanting me to try to match the tones on the amp, that's missing the entire point, I'm just calling out Glenn's misleading hyperbole.
@@MetalHeadProductions because that was Glenn’s point. Don’t spend money on a new amp or new valves, spend them on speakers, you can approximate the rest. At least that was his point last year, I can’t say I am a very regular viewer of his.
@@MetalHeadProductions The way I see it, if you match Glenn's results, we know for sure he tweaked the hell out of the amps to make them sound as close as possible. Probably more bs from his channel that you can debunk too.
Finally, people start to expose Glenn for the fraud he is. I sold off most of my amps because I have a QC now, but I've been playing guitar since 1989, so experience has shown me that what Glenn is saying is misleading. He sells IRs and he obviously has a relationship with Thomann because he can't get through a video without pushing their cabs. Since I sold most of my amps, I can't do a comparison, but I know he's full of shit. He isn't trying to save people money. He's trying to funnel it through himself. Which is fine if he was being honest.
Thanks for stepping up and doing your own testing, as one set of tests by one person does not constitute diffinitive findings. It's very important that bold claims are thoroughly and carefully examined.
I've long thought that "EQ Matching" is one of the most amazing and powerful tools in audio.
He's not hiding the fact that he tweaked the eq of the amp to make them match. What he's saying is the speaker is what will make your sound change the most, at least in a context of a mix, and people should consider looking for an other speaker instead of spending thousands of dollars in a new head. I would love having a Glenn's response on this one, should be interesting
finally someone who gets the point
I mean he spent 20 minutes saying the amps sound identical because they have the same speaker, but sure we can interpret what he "actually meant."
Regardless, I did a followup video that shows the midranges of these amps are in entirely different places and also that the rev g is permanently scooped where the 6505/5150 has all.of it's midrange, you might find that interesting. It's linked in the pinned comment.
I gave up on watching Flicker's videos a while ago, after similar videos - such as claiming all pickups sound the same. I have collected over the years a bunch of different pickups - something I'm interested on - and they sound and feel very different, less so under high gain, but still different. I don't know what Glenn does with his videos to make they sound the same, but I have ears and there's a big difference by simply switching them on my own setup.
I also get he wants to be a consumer advocate and get people to not obsess over expensive boutique pickups, but I nonetheless found those videos misleading at best.
i agree with you, i guess when you have a bit of experience and you have a sufficient level at guitar to truly understand the nuances you understand that. but i guess most of his viewers are intermediate level guitar players who dont have enough skills to really make the difference, and glenns videos where everything is tone matched ( even to some ridiculous extent) is not helping. a big part of wht he is not mentionning is the response and feeling of pickups and amps, sure it doesnt always comes through in the mix but 99.9% of the time when were playing guitar is not in a recording session so pleasure is more important if you know what i mean
He didn't claim all pickups sound the same, he claimed the difference is minor at high gain.
I think he was right because even in your clip they sound pretty much the same just different equalization. And since there's a million different ways to change EQ around, it's kind of like saying a Ford F-150 is pretty much the same as a Chevy Silverado.
They really don't though, really different midranges. Might want to check out my followup video where I show the mid ranges of the amps are in entirely different places.
Harsh whistle at 4kHz... That's something I'm solving right now and it's driving me crazy. Is this on all high gain amps? Do pickups accentuate it? I sometimes read people talking about this but then I watch a video where someone puts only high pass and low pass on their guitars and there is none of that... Is the only solution parametric EQ pedal in effects loop?
Most high gain recordings have harshness around 4k. Some plugins for guitars have a notch at 4k built in.
I don’t know about amps that much, but my local music store has a marshal 4x12 1960. It’s magic, pure and simple. It makes every head plugged into sound amazing.
Glenn is also a 🫏
Killer! Speakers and cabs are the most important, sounds like you found something that really works for you. Definitely snag that.
Im glad you did this and i can't listen Glenn no more and no one needs to be talked to like that by him.
I'm happy you did this video in order to give another side of the story
I've seen a lot of Glenn's videos, and the guy surely enough is the voice of critical thinking. I do tend to believe in what he says based on what he shows us, like he does in the video in question, so I find it very refreshing to see that people actually challenge his claims the way he encourages people to do.
I hope this doesn't end here, and that Glenn actually makes a proper response to this video, because it would appear that the both of you did carry out the test properly, and that leaves us with an interesting question of why the results differ so much.
Maybe this could spark a collaboration of some sort between the two of you? I'd love to see that video 😃
Anyway, good work!
Why the hell didn't you use flat both amps!??
just curious,
did you CALIBRATE both
Input/Output (Gain/Volume)
of both Heads ?
(with EQ defeated/bypassed/off )
the MESAs ive had have more low end ... ymmv
i can see how - side by side - both amps CAN be dialed back to sound the same
but then neither have "the sound" character we buy them for.
from a sound engineers perspective , it should not matter;
if it works for a musician to Perform , in the best interest of the Song -
there is no problem.
i think a Line6 Spider amp to drive the same Cabs was also mentionned as a future vid.
- good luck dialing in a usable "Metal" tone with that tho.
They're level matched, gain isn't far off, but I didn't match the EQs, wasn't about that, just about showing you can get big differences with just amps. I'd never argue amps, cabs and mics aren't the most significant difference.
Maybe Glenn accidentally used the same amp on both trials and then thought he's on to something...
Gotto love Glenn tho.
I unsubbed from his channel a long time ago. These are two different amps and they have always had different characteristics. The fact that he even said that pickups have nearly nothing to do with tone makes me suspicious.
Glenn is a UA-camr, not an audio engineer nor a guitar player.
Thanks for this video ! 🙏
From my own experience, you can use EQ to make most high gain amps pretty much all sound the same. Yes they do have variations in the frequencies that are adjusted by their built in EQ pots but using an EQ pedal you can adjust these amps to all pretty much have the same sound, especially if you are using the same guitar cab with the various amps you are tweaking. IDK if that is what Glenn did in his video since I haven't watched it (his vids are pretty annoying) but this would make sense. One thing the Rectifier amps do have that some others do not is the extended low end response. This can be sort of added to amps that do not have this with EQ in the effects loop but the Rectifiers have this built in which is handy for brutal death metal type tones.
The mid range and really everything about my rev g is different than any of my other amps. Point is though, amps demonstrably can have a big impact on the tone, which Glenn said they don't.
It's crazy how different they sound given that they both come from SLO lineage. I've got a Mesa Trem-O-Verb right now. I've owned a few other variants in the past. I've owned a 6505, and played plenty of the other Peaveys, and Fender 5150s. While I can tweak a Recto to sound a lot more like a 5150: Orange channel, vintage mode, pull your highs all the way back, mids all the way up, back the bass to around 9-10 O'Clock, presence to taste, leave the channel volume high, and compensate with the master. That will get you in the ballpark. Every pot has a slightly different taper afterall. That being said, who would EVER think to EQ an amp like that unless they know the tone stack like that? Most people looking for heavy sounds with a Recto are going to use that signature Modern mode sound anyway. That's the sound everyone loves out of them.
All that said, the reverse cannot be done. A 5150/6505 always sounds like itself. Even with the EQ in crazy places, it sounds like a 5150 variant. An angrier, gainier, less refined sounding little brother to it's Soldano relative. It's why myself and so many others love them.
after i saw his video "guitars dont matter" i was already sure that he is going to push the agenda that nothing makes big changes, just change speakers to the point where he will be saying that boss mt2 into poweramp sounds same like vht pitbull, because it is the cab that makes the difference :D
the dude is just a joke and does clickbait stuff all the time nowadays
Great video and fully agree, i felt bad for Kaddy as he was singled out and made to look bad by Glenn and his large subscriber base, well out of order and almost bully like behaviour. Kaddy handled it well though and more of us so called dumb guitarists should back him up. Cheers! 👍🏻
Yeah, looks like he took a page out of Chapman's book.
I think Glen is addicted to being to having controversial guitar related opinions because it gives his channel a lot of extra attention and allows him and his audience to act smarmy.
Also sometimes I wonder if he just has the world most colored signal chain. I've used some IRs that almost have no transparency to the sound.
I think he does indeed like making controversial videos for views, this felt particularly misleading and warranted a response.
I think thats kind of his point he could make both amps sound the same so you dont need to own both
No his point was the only thing that matters is the speaker and if you want big tonal changes, that's done by the speakers, which clearly you can get big differences with Amos as well. It's also worth saying I can't get my 6505 to sound identical to my rev g without big eq changes in post. Entirely different mid ranges, to put it mildly,.
@@MetalHeadProductions he says at the end about how people say hes a terrible studio engineer but at the same time ppl are complaining that he manipulated the the two amps to sound alike which would require some level of knowledge as a studio engineer so he was just trying to flex on everyone so basically by making this video you just proving that he actually a good studio engineer
@@Durkhead lol, what? I showed how little effort it takes to tone match something with the fabfilter.
You're really reaching, man. Glenn said amps don't make a significant tonal difference, just the speakers do that, and I showed the amps can make a significant difference, as did kaddy.
An amp has knobs that changes the sound. Doesn't that disprove that two amps can't sound different when the same amp can sound different?
Is it not the case that the Dual Rec was somewhat of a takeoff from (or Mesa's answer to) the 5150/SLO style sound that was around at the time?
I have very little experience with 6505 and Dual Rec amps, and zero experience with Soldanos or the original Peavey 5150's (although I've played through the EVH 5150's).
As far as I can remember with the Dual Rec, they have that somewhat similar "sag" that the 5150/6505 amps are known for. That being said, the Dual Rec still has that distinct Mesa tone and is a bit drier sounding than the 6505/5150.
This is as much of a feel thing as it is a sound thing.
Just my 2 cents. I find this an interesting topic of discussion.
Each of them had their own little changes. The midranges are pretty different on the two amps. Dual rec is more difficult to deal with but it's less compressed and has a different feel for sure.
@MetalHeadProductions I've got a Mesa Mark V which I know are incredibly mid-heavy. Are Dual Rectfifiers similar in that way as well? Meaning, you'd need to "scoop" the mids to make it less harsh sounding?
I remember playing a 50W EVH 5150 through a 2x12 cabinet, and it was incredibly easy to dial in.
I find the challenge with the Mark V amps is to find the point at which there's just enough mid-range to cut the air, but not so much that it causes the ears to fatigue quickly. And improperly EQ'd Mesa Boogie is almost painful to listen to LOLOL.
Fricker is basically clickbait. He tries to be ..shocking or something. I don't own them, but have played them both.
This is also how they both sound when I have used them. Two very different sounds with extremely different saturation & distortion.
I did a followup video that I put in a pinned comment on why they sound different, and it comes down to their midranges are very different. The mid control on the 6505 affects 500-1k, which is already naturally scooped on the dual rec as it turns out, and the dual rec's mid control affects 250-500hz.
I actually have to agree.. I do own both amps and they do sound completely different from each other in my experience. I mean sometimes i can listen to a song and pin point that they were using rectifiers. Rectos has such a unique sound to them and in my experience its way different to my 5150/6505
Would be interesting if you managed to get hold of 6260 (Bugera amps). Can be had for about $200 second hand.
I would take what Glenn says more seriously if his demos and playing actually sounded good.
he can't play guitar lol
@@thatlonzoguy he can't mix either
This isnt to challenge your results, as they line up with what many would expect (the sound each amp is known for) but did you try to use the amp eq to get them as close as possible, id think you should be able to get them matched up a little more, not identical but close. Ive found the main difference in tube amps tends to be the eq, so simply adding an eq pedal or in post can make most amps match up almost identically, even if theres some fairly large differences in design. In that case, it doesnt make sense to buy an extra tube head for what amounts to eq.
The point wasn't to try to EQ them as close as possible. I still can get them super close without an outside EQ because of the midrange differences between them, but Glenn said over and over that big tone differences don't come from amps, they come from the speaker. I agreed the biggest difference was the speaker, even said to try different cabs and speakers before buying a bunch of amps, but this video shows you can get big tonal differences with just amps as well.
Well done
You run the presence pretty low and mids pretty high on the 6505. how much time did you actually spend on using the amp controls to get them as close as possible? My guess is, that you could make the 6505 sound much closer to the rectifier, but you probably couldn’t achieve the sound you dialed in on the 6505 with the rectifier.
In my experience amps do matter, but you can get most pretty close to each other
I don't run them as close as possible, I run them sounding best. Their mid ranges are in very different places. The mids in the rev g are lower, around 750-500hz and and the 6505 is higher up and more nasal.
Regardless, that shouldn't matter right, if it's all the speaker? His whole point was you don't get big tonal shifts with different amps, you get them with the speaker and I have demonstrated you can indeed get big tone differences with just the amo.
My rev g sounds nothing like any of my other amps, and I can't get any of them sounding like it without some big EQ moves in post.
With how perfectly identical Glenn's amps sounded, there is something up.
@@MetalHeadProductions Well his point is use the eq on the amp before spending thousands of dollars. And I think he has a point to a degree. I think if the eq curves allows for it, it is fair game. No matter what you consider „big EQ moves“. For example check out how Josh Middleton dials in his 6505. mids almost off and it sounds much more in the ballpark than you make it seem here. For some people that approximation might be good enough.
I personally don’t buy a 6505 to make it sound like a rectifier and prefer a tone much closer to what you dialed in. But before you spend 2k on a rev g maybe try using the eq to match it as closely as you can. (If you are only after one rhythm sound you like, that is. Of course the amps differ in many other ways which might warrant a purchase)
@@Patrick-rf7vx no his point was literally that big tone shifts don't come from Amos. He stays several times in the video, and I was able to show you absolutely can get big tonal shifts with amps.
Honestly Glenn couldn't have been more clearly, why with trying to shift goal posts.
The 6505 sounds good with the mids around 6 and the dual rec is better a bit scooped because it's midrange is in that wooden, horrible sounding area around 500-750hz, which again is beside the point, which is that you can absolutely get significant tonal changes with just amps.
@@MetalHeadProductions I would never guessed that some day I will have to defend Glenn, but at 12:00 minutes in the video he EXACTLY touches on this point. I think he could have made that portion a lot bigger part of the video, but you are wrong here.
Some amps just have different designs/and or values for the pots. I think you are being intellectually lazy if you don't consider this and try to compensate for that with the controls (that are there to be used!!!). For Example: The presence of my revv generator red channel sounds at 5 exactly like a 6505's presence at 8. I don't go around and say that the 6505 is much darker just because it is when set both to 5. That would be stupid. Sorry to be that harsh, but you are being lazy.
@@Patrick-rf7vx cool so you're going to quote mine he and I to try and make a video where he calls guitarists dumb for thinking the amp can make a difference to the tone stupid, talked about when he got a framus cobra it sounded like his other amps, and had a thumbnail of the two amps on the trash on fire, that video wasn't actually about what glen said it was all because you say so.
I think the 6505 and Rectifier are probably the worst options to try to suggest that amps sound different being that their preamp topology is both based on the SLO. Like maybe a Fryette Pittbull vs an Orange Rockerverb. Or an SLO vs a Mark IV.
Glenn is also a fantastic moron.
I am a guitar player but also have built amps. The issue with guitar players is that, like many artists, a lot is about how it "feels". Technically speaking the two amps in question are very very close designs. The major differences lie in the power amp and the pot tapers and values. In reality you CAN make them sound the same. Do they sound the same at the same settings - no.
Additionally there's this thing that always gets ignored which is component tolerances. The components in ALL amps are not picked to make a precision instrument, it's not a sniper rifle. This is the reason why players expirience the "I played a jcm 800 before but this one particular one has the mojo!". And that's the truth, the whole truth and nothing bit the truth
Glenn must have reached the end of the outrage he could generate dunking on Gibson and decided to move on to something else. I don't click on his videos with clickbait titles.
Glenn is really good at engineering and mixing, that's all I have to say about Glenn.
If you're not being sarcastic then you're deaf.
I can't believe much of what Glen says. I'll leave it there and watch actual informative stuff like this instead.
People need to stop fixating on "what makes the most difference" in a chain where every component matters to some extent. Figuring out how each component of a chain effects each other is a useful skill and encourages people to experiment.
Good video.
Glen is annoying. Can’t stand his videos. Probably wouldn’t like him as a person either. I don’t find any value in his videos. Yours are cool though. I watch them from time to time.
I find a lot of Glenn's stuff to be very factually accurate, but I also find that his attempt to be a shock jock and be childish can lead him to parking himself on the corner of WRONG street and FAFO avenue with his foot knee deep in his mouth from time to time. It's why I refuse to get all my guitar and recording info from a single source, because Glenn is just like everyone else - human, and not entirely infallible. He's not immune to getting caught in public stroking his ego to completion, or just being plain wrong. I treat every source of every information this way, from news to computer and music gear reviews.
Mike Soldano: *not so much of a joke to you now, am I?*
Lol
Good video. Sadly Glenn is totally missing the point of making each amp sound it's best on it's own and THEN comparing them, instead of making them sound similar. Yes, if you try to make things sound similar, they sound similar, duh. What a revelation. You don't buy an amp to make it sound like another amp. That's what a mental rock would do.
Even still, I did a followup video on this and showed the midranges for these amps are in entirely different places, the dual rec's is much lower which is why it sounds better scooped because it's getting rid of that muddy frequencies and the 6505 has the mids much higher which is why the amp cuts in a mix so well and sounds better with the mids boosted.
I can't get them to sound as identical as he did without post EQ which I suspect, but can't prove he did.
@@MetalHeadProductions Yes, that and: some of the best producers/engineers out there quad track rhythm guitars with different amps. If they'd sound THE SAME ... that would make no sense. If quadtracking with 2 different amps is fair game, because the amps sound different enough to alter the result, they sound different enough on their own.
Thank you for this video! I own one Rev D, three Ref F, four Rev G, one 3 channels and two multiwatts and... all these Rectos sound DIFFERENT ! There is no one Recto sound, there are many.
Glenn is right about the speakers, but he is wrong about the amp because his message comes from the mix engineer perspective, not from the guitar player for whom the amp is a source of inspiration. Changing the amp has an impact on the way you play. Never forget that golden rule : the audio chain is a chain. Every part of the chain (the sound of the room included), every change, has something to bring in the final tone. In the Glenn clip, the sound is muddy garbage piece of shit, I can't even recognize a Recto !!! Glenn Fricker is not Mike Fraser or Andy Sneap. He is just a youtuber...
When I heard him say that, I kind of laughed because i know he's trying to get the community to fire up. You can make the amps sound the same but that can only happen if you EQ the amps close as you can, do post processing, and boost the dual/triple rectifier and switch toe rectifier to modern mode. An unboosted dual or triple rectifier sounds a bit tubby or muddy while the 5150 is tight. Hell, even my quad cortex has both 5150 and dual rectifier captures and they sound way different
He tried to get out in front of digital amps sounding different, ironically saying they do stuff to the digital amps to make them sound different to sell them, which is prob true to a degree.
Let me play devils advocate. Those two amps do sound pretty close. The distortion has a very simular structure... It's not like the difference between an hm2 and ds1.
That said his statement would mean all amps sound similar. Orange vs marshall vs slo clones vs fenders these amps are very different. My katana can sound like many things and to that arguments yes amps can sound alike but only if the amp has the ability to hit certain levels of saturation and has the ability to tone match. Using an eq after doesn't count IMHO.
I wanna see if Glenn responds
If he does I want him to respond to the follow-up video I did that shows these amps have totally different midranges too.
@@MetalHeadProductions while I know there's some great budget pickups, I'm not buying his thoughts there completely either. He's partly right though
@@hfrhkiuffbkiyfc sure, pickups in the end result aren't going to make a massive difference in tone for high gain, however what's missing is the player side of things there. Personally I don't want a pickup that's lower output where I have to struggle to get the performance I want, I don't want them to be thin but too much low-end pushes a preamp and pedals in a way I don't like either, gotta have the chunky palm mites without the mud and I want it to pair well with an overdrive without again getting super thin, I want chord clarity under high gain, I want the top end to sit in a butter zone between having enough for clarity, nice pick attack and so it doesn't sound dull, but not so much that it gets that ice pick thing into high gain or with an overdrive.
All of this matters less for the final product in a mix, but matters a lot to me as a player, for how everything feels and performs for me.
@MetalHeadProductions that's... pretty much my exact thoughts on the matter. Well said. I'm stoned at the moment so might have replied to another comment but I have a triple rec solo head and a 6505 1x12 and I've ran them both all else equal through a mesa v30 2x12 and just by listening alone I'm getting similar differences as you are.
@@hfrhkiuffbkiyfc well I did a followup video to this showing the mid range of both amps, and it turns out they're in different places so that's a lot of the reason the sound different.
Mesa, lot boxier and muddier. Obviously more bass frequency. 6505, more bite and brilliance. I think GF’s videos have more of a postproduction approach, when a lot of adjustments have been done after miccing and mixing, obviously giving the impression that everything is a lot flatter and more lineal. In my experience amps differ dramatically before they are mixed and mastered. Of course compressing and limiting to death will make everything sound the same
Glenn Fricker touting irresponsible nonsense, now that's hot news. 😂
Glen is far from an expert on a lot of things
It would be cool to do an experiment where you dial in a tone you like on one amp, then try to recreate the same tone in the other by modifying setings. I imagine that some sounds could be achieved with both amps while others sounds would have a much greater difference.
I've never really liked Glenn specifically for making everything sound the same. I mean the way you dial in an amp makes a huge difference.
I get Glenn's point about amps being able to sound alike. But that also negates the fact that not everyone wants their amp to sound the way he dialed them in to get that result.
Well if that was just his point I would have left it alone, but I felt like there was some EQ behind the scenes to get the amps so identical, can't prove it, just seems like it, and he said what was making the amps sound identical was the speaker and that big tone differences come from the speaker not the amp. I showed you can get big differences from the amp to illustrate he's being hyperbolic and dishonest.
I added with him with how significant and important speakers, mics and cabs are.
@@MetalHeadProductions I think he said he dialed them in to be as close as possible and I assumed he meant using the EQ on the amps themselves… but to be honest, it wasn’t my favorite tone for either amp. Definitely not one I would want to use in a mix. He may have done something in post, but that isn’t provable like you say.
The advantage of having a different amp and circuit to create gain is that they will have different tolerances, ranges and responses. Can you make them sound alike, possibly, but likely at the expense of their optimal tone. The speaker is the ultimate equalizer, but it has to respond to the frequencies being pushed into it. It might be interesting to try in a real world setting if you can get both amps to sound alike using amp EQ only, and what you would have to do to accomplish that.
@@BaritoneGoatStudio the 6505 sound good setup in ways the dual rec doesn't, and vise versa, that's why it's good to have other amps. Also how they take pedals and whatnot.
I just don't like the hyperbolic misinformation.
He's terrible. Mystery solved.
Sorry Bro, BUT the Peavey has too much mids and the Rectifier has too much Presence. Even your EQ-Curve shows it at 3:17 onwards. If you dial different sounds in, you cant compare them.
Might want to go check out my followup video where I specifically compare the mids and show the 6505 midrange controls 500-1khz, whereas the rev g is scooped 500-1k and it's mid control effects 250-500hz.
Also the point of the video is to show big tonal shifts can happen just with amps.
You can sit around and mangle amps to sound however you want, that's not really how people go about jamming, writing, or making a record. They use the sounds they like!
Please set both amps at noon- which is supposed to be the sweet spot for most high gain amps. In the screen capture, it looked like the knobs on both amps are set to your taste, not noon for both heads.
Also, the point of the video was to save people money. Shows that speakers are very important. Often more important than the amp itself.
I’ve run a jet city, old Carvin and a b-52, and at gain, with the same guitar, they were all kind of the same, if i set up the tone, pedals, and gain stages the same. But change a Randall cab to a Marshall cab, a slant from a bottom, and I’ll see a huge different in tone.
As to his tips on recording, I’ve been following him since 2017. In the past year and a half, I’ve taken mixing much more serious, and his tips, his review livestreams, and advice have taken my mixes to a night and day difference. So, i feel he’s doing something right. Is his persona a bit over the top? Yeah, but like most things on the internet, it’s theater.
High praise for your video. I’d just like to have seen both heads at noon all the way across. And a mic’ed cab, rather than IR. Because the mic also plays a part….
Who said that's supposed to be the sweet spot for high gain amps? It's not and it's where either of these amps sound best, especially the dual rec. That mid range will start sounding awful.
This wasn't about setting them the same, it was about showing you can get large tonal changes with just the amp. I agreed with Glenn that the speakers make the biggest difference, I just didn't like he was misleading people that amps can't make a big difference as well.
lol
@@MetalHeadProductions 100% agree. This is especially true for most Bogner amps. They use audio (logarithmic) taper pots so noon will specifically sound different versus a linear taper pot amp. This is why Bogners get the misconception of being "darker" amps because you need to set the treble to around 6-8/10 to be equivalent to a Marshall amp at noon.
It goes back to what Glenn mentioned. Knobs change things - if you can make them sound almost identical by simpmy turning knobs what else needs to be explained? The 5150/6505 and dual rect are based off the SLO 100 - different enough to dodge a lawsuit. The irony of tone policing a video about tone. Love it.
The family of amps that we know as the 5150 and Dual Recto were released starting in 1992. Rectos have (and still are) more expensive then 5150's. If Glen's statement was even remotely true, then why would anyone have bothered buying a Recto?
BTW, thanks for making a video where a civil discussion could be had about this topic. I am, and have been, completely over Frickers "rage over everything". approach for some time now. There is no need to be a sh!thead when discussing guitar amps, thanks for being a calm professional. I hope things are better in your world.
For sure, and I also did a follow-up video showing the two amps have really different midranges which is why they sound different even with the same speaker. I pinned that video in the comments.
good video 👌
I'm fairly convinced at this point that he's a classic case of "I SPEAK REALLY LOUD AND BRASH SO I MUST BE HONEST!!!!! (though I'm actually lying half the time)" and I lost patience for him 343768672 ridiculous takes ago ("you can't mix on headphones" and "you're an idiot if you buy an Axe FX instead of a Marshall" were my breaking point).
Also, even if he somehow got the two amps to sound this close (REALLY doubt it), that means nothing because there is a slight overlap, but also lots of things each amp can do that the other can't. Pretty sure you can get most "metal" amps to approximate some mid-gain setting on a Fender, but yeah that's about where the similarities end.
Something I just thought about that someone either trying to make or refute this claim can do. All the knobs on the 5150 are big arrows that make it plain as day where the settings are just by looking, whereas the dual rec just has blank, circular knobs. If you were to say "i put all the knobs at 12'o clock", with both amps in the shot in the video, we'd clearly see that's the case with the 5150, but we'd be none the wiser if you happened to change any of the knobs on the dual rec. Invalidating any claim either in favor or against
I didn't set these the same and say I did though, and neither did glenn. The bass and treble were the same, but the midrange controls control different frequencies. 6505 sounds better pushing the mids a bit so the mids were just past noon and the dual rec mid control sounds better just below noon because it's midrange controls the lower mids which don't sound very good.
I did match the settings in a followup video I did where I sweep the mid controls for both Amos so you can see they're in entirely different places. It's linked in the pinned comment.
On and you missed the point, it wasn't to make the amps sound the same, just to show you could get big tone differences between two amps.
I had to unsubscribe from Glenn a year or two ago.
According to glen I may as well play a toys r us hello kitty guitar into an AM radio wired to a V30 in a cereal box since that should be all that matters right? Oh also, if I disagree I’m pulling this out of my butt.
Everything in the signal chain makes a difference, heck even the instrument cable does. Yea, the speaker is a huge part but amp makes a huge difference too, some amps sound like shit. For these saturated metal tones the amp makes a lesser difference than lower gain amps, but it still makes a difference. I really don’t understand why this is supposed to be an issue. I’ve had people bring shitty amps to my studio, if I can’t get a good tone out of it I offer them to use my gear. Yea not all amps sound the same.
geez, that thing sounds 12 times better than I thought it would!
I think Glenn is good at showing that we are probably overly focusing on certain details rather than the big picture. (good song writing, speakers and cabinets ect...) However, I do agree with you here, that these do not sound extremely similar. Can they both overlap and do a lot of the same things? Sure. I think the truth lies somewhere in the middle. If you are looking for the details that make that last 5-10% difference, I think a lot of things Glenn writes off as useless (amps and pickups in particular) have a place.
This is exactly why I unsubscribed and quit watching Glenn’s videos. He looks for reactions and acts pissy when someone calls him on his stuff. He’s a child that only wants to get his way instead of being open.
Obviously Glen is wrong. Both amps sound very different. We all agree that the cab and the speaker has the most impact but that doesnt mean that the amp doesnt play a role.
Absolutely
Both amps are iconic. Both amps have many iterations so it’s really like apples and oranges. Love them both but recto gets my vote every time.
In the world of science research, the common practice with publishing a paper on a discovery, the exact methods used by the lab are included. I think Glenn should probably show his exact process and let others try to duplicate his results. I'm not a super hi gain amp sort of person but I'd assume that Glenn probably tried to make those amps sound the same as opposed to just dialing in the tone that the amp inspires or delivers most easily. Your Mesa was very fizzy compared to the more boxy peavy. Those sounds would definitely lead one to believe the amps are massively different. I would guess there's a technique to A/B them and dial in more similar tones but the controls might be wildly different.
Not one of Glen's finest moments, going on like that, but, even in this video, all I am hearing is that the amps are louder in different frequency ranges. One could probably EQ these amps to sound just about identical.
Just because certain amps can be dialed in in a similar way doesn't mean that's the way you would dial these in like that. It'll probably not be the way you want a certain amp to sound, I guess. Maybe you want a certain sound/feel out of an amp because that's the way that amp sounds best (to you). Then there's also the sound in the room, the feel of an amp, not everyone is just focussing on recording, which Glenn really does, that's his thing, I get it. So yeah, I'd still love a Dual Rectifier (or Badlander, who knows, at least when these are available again in the EU, which, apparently, should be soon) and 5150 type/variant. Let's keep this fun for everyone, shall we? ;)
I think his point was to say that both amps can be dialled in to sound very similar (or identical). You can do the same test with two of the same amps and keep the settings same and they will probably sound a bit different. I don't understand why you don't say that. Your video is a bit misleading by itself. Just say that they can be dialled in to sound similar.
Also can you dial in a Fencer Twin reverb to sound like a mesa? probably not because thag circuit is completely different. But when the circuits are similar you can dial them in. Now are the matched tones the sweet spot for those amps? that depends on your taste.
Actually I did a followup video to show the mid range frequencies are in entirely different places. The dual rec mid range adjusts a much lower frequency spectrum, closer to 500hz, than the 6505 which was much higher, around 1000hz. They also have completely different presence controls where the dual rec's is very different from most amps and almost acts like an additional treble control, just post distortion so the top end was very different on both.
I show the EQs pretty clearly in that video.
As for this, I know what point Glenn was trying to make but instead of just emphasizing speakers and mics are the most important thing when it comes to tone, which I agree with, he went out of his way to be hyperbolic, misleading, cause as I said the mid ranges are wildly different and I'd like to know what he did to get the tones sounding so close, and decided to publicly ridicule and shame a small UA-camr for no real good reason.
Rectos have had so many changes made to them over the years as well so the Revision on the Recto can be a factor as well.
If you EQ match the amps then yeah, they are going to sound very similar. But neither of the sound clips in Glenn's video sounded good. Why? Because to do what he did you have to set both amps up so that they can match tones. Set up a rectifier to sound good, then set up a 5150 to sound good. They don't sound the same.
So in general, every amp sounds different doesn't matter if its a real amp or an amp sim, they all sound different. So you guys are right about that and glenn is wrong in that category.
Could the disconnect here possibly be that a handful of amps kind of based on the same style of circuit COULD achieve the same or similar tones if dialed in to sound like each other? Sure, they’re all gonna sound different if you start them all at noon on the knobs. But I’m assuming Glenn kept dialing them until they sounded the same… Much like what Josh at JHS did with the bad monkey and the Klon. It’s not so much that the amps sound and work identically… But that if you play around with them enough, you could pretty much achieve the same tone if you know what you’re doing. It’s still misleading if he didn’t just say that… But that doesn’t mean he didn’t pull off the same tone necessarily with enough tweaking.
Problem is I did a followup video to this where I show the midranges on the amps are in wildly different places and getting the amps to sound as identical as he did would require me to match them in post.
It's also not really being upfront if it takes a bunch of work to get two amps to similar in the one setting where they might have some overlap and then present that to the audience as these amps sound the same.
The dual rec's midrange is in the low mids, which is why it sounds better scooped. The 5150's midrange is higher around 750-1k where tube screamer normally boosts which is why those amps typically sound better pushing the midrange and why the amps sit so well in a mix.
At best he's being disingenuous and while doing so, he's being an ass to some small UA-camr.
I think the problem with Glenn's video is he is using super low tuned guitars, which is going to make it harder to find a difference between amps. Glenn does have valid points about speakers, but amps, tonewood, speakers, playing style, all add up.
Good comparison. To me it shows that Mesa is on a hype ride and not really worth the money, as again Peavey sounds better to my ears.
Glen has been EQ matching (at best) for years and I’ve called him out and he never responded once. Cause his PV iconic vs OG 5150 video was ridiculous and I had both amps and Mr science didn’t want to actually DO scientific shit and send me his exact settings cause if it could turn out the same then voila! But he’s a clown and I stopped watching his vids awhile ago. Trust me, you won’t miss his content
I have a lot of doubts lately about Glens claims. His claims about humbuckers is also not 100% waterproof
I’m so glad you guys are showing the actual truth here. Glenn’s video left me kind of frustrated 🤷♀️
“…actual truth…” is a bit of a stretch my guy