POWER AMPS MATTER! - 5150 Preamp through 20 different power amps!
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- Опубліковано 30 вер 2024
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Timestamps for quick comparisons
4:25 Stock Sylvania 6L6
5:03 Mesa Boogie Dual Rectifier 100w 6L6
5:44 VHT Pittbull 50w E34L
6:27 Bogner Uberschall 150w KT88
7:03 Soldano SLO-100 100w 5881
7:42 EVH 5150 IIIS 100w EL34
8:20 Splawn 100w 6550
8:57 Omega Granophyre 100w EL34
9:35 Bogner Ecstasy 20th Anniversary 100w 6L6
10:14 Friedman BE-100 100w EL34
10:52 Marshall JCM900 w/ JMP xformer 100w EL34
11:30 Diezel Hagen 100w KT77
12:10 Engl Powerball II 100w 6L6
12:48 Rhodes KSR Orthos 100w 6L6
13:24 Revv Generator 120 100w KT88/6L6
14:02 Mesa Boogie Mark IV 100w 6L6
14:40 Peavey Invective 120 6L6
15:16 Peavey JSX 100w EL34
15:50 Seymour Duncan Powerstage 200 Class D Solid State
16:27 Blackstar Amped 1 100w Class D Solid State
17:03 Mesa Boogie Strategy 400 200w 6L6/EL34
So, nothing an eq pedal can't do.
It all matters. Every part of the signal chain - it’s just some matter more than others - this is a cool experiment, and the differences are there - I really liked the KT88 sound with the 5150. But at the end of the day in a mix this is probably pretty negligible - likely more a fun thing to do in a room than something to worry much about consistently. Thanks for the cool video!
Agreed, and IMO different high gain amps with attempts to eq a bit similarly will also likely sound more similar in a good mix.
What a great video Kyle! JSX won for me, however I’m shocked on how good the Amped 1 was compared to the tube poweramps. Blackstar did their homework! Cheers!
Yeh man, it totally annihilated the SD Powerstage.
Just goes to show the tones are limitless by mixing preamps and power amps. Awesome video Kyle!
The power section is why people love their rectifiers and AC30s. While other companies left costumers without an option to change power section characteristics, VOX and Mesa made it the feature of their amps.
It's all the same
Not enough diference to matter
That little white pedal amp suprised me!
Hey Kyle! I know this isn't supposed to be "Scientific" but in tests with speakers, power sections or different amplifiers, You should run a loop of the same performance through them so eliminate that as a variable. Still an amazing video.
Wholy shit, the low end on that Invective!!! Remember they are known for "weak" low end? Right....
The Bogner with KT88, alonside the EVH EL34 , and the Diezel with KT77, all sound amazing!!
I liked most 100w 6L6 power amps, I was underwhelmed by the SLO100 power amp, sounded muffled...
The biggest disappoinment was the dual rec, made the 5150 sound like a pedal...
The guitar tone on Metallica's Black Album was created by slaving a Mesa Boogie through the power amp of a Marshall. I wish amp sim companies would model the pre-amp and power amp seperately, so you could combine different amp sims together (the plugins from Brainworx can do this, btw)
There has to be a more woke way to talk about the master slave relationship in amps
@@Ottophil Oh, my bad. Of course I meant to say "Mesa Boogie committed a hate crime against Marshall".
Was it? I remember Kirk Hammet said in an interview that it was more like playing the signal through few very different amps and then blending their sound together to produce the final tone.
@@ondrejkauzal8969yea no it wasn’t. Metallica has never slaved a Mesa into a Marshall, at least not for rhythm tones. this is the most common metallica myth. James’ tone on TBA was Kirk’s Mark IIC+, a Mark IV, Bob Rocks Jose Arredondo Marshall SLP, and an ADA MP 1 into a Strategy 400 power amp. All amps went to 1960BVs, and were blended together.
@@RÅNÇIÐ 🤣
The Blackstar pedal 😮👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻
For me this just proves how the stock power amp is the perfect one for the 5150. There are some great tones here but stock it just has that magic midrange
That riff is now sitting out the back smoking a cigarette....!
I dug the tone through the KT88, the Soldano 5881 and the Marshall with the JMP output transformer. All different but to my old ears sounded great.
...Okay now I understand why you like that Blackstar pedal amp so much as a power amp. Really kept up with the tube amps in terms of girth. They should make a power amp only ersion of that.
I'm shocked at how little low end the Recto and Mesa Strategy had though.
This content is great. Especially as a modeler user that uses a power amp and guitar cab. Power amp shootouts are very hard to find. Thank you.
Amazing how much more Marshally it sounded through the JCM with JMP.
Very balanced through the Revv.
Went way in the Metallica direction through that Mk2.
Very cool experiment.
Stock 5150 poweramp sounds the best in this comparison to my ears.
5150 through it's own Poweramp sounds best in my opinion. I really like the KT88 of the Bogner aswell and also the Blackstar Amped...damn that little thing surprised me.
Really good comparison Kyle thanks ❤
Oddly enough I liked it best through the Friedman power section.
Mesa 400 at the end is just ridiculous. Markedly cleaner than any of the rest. Could probably peel paint with it.
The second channel of yours has fire content. Keep up the good work
Holy shit man, double tracking this way would probably sound huge. 🤯
That Blackstar CRUSHED holy crap!
I am really loving this recent content!
Edit: Much to my own surprise, I really liked the solid state power amps
Thanks dude! I feel like this this is the content I really want to make but maybe doesn't quite make sense with my main channel format at this point. Thoughts?
@@kylebull2 It might be my personal bias because I really dig these types of test videos but I feel like it shows. I think I get the sense that you are enjoying what you're doing.
Whether exporting this kind of content to your second channel makes more sense than grouping it in one, I can't really say as I am still quite unfamiliar with the business side of youtube but I guess it could. You might be building two slightly different viewer demographics. Yeah, this might be the more sensible approach. Doesn't make a difference to me as you know I'm here for both.
@@kylebull2I am loving the channel 2 content lately!
This mofo opening another can of worms lol, chaos!
You can get impulse responses of power amp sections.
i use an impulse response of a 6l6 tube amp with my mooer x2 preamp as it only has preamp profiles in it as i go into solid state power amp(powerstage170) , the power amp impulse adds so much more 'realism' and depth to the signal thats missing when only using a preamp.
The VHT and the Omega were my favorite. Love how tight those amps are.
If I remember correctly Metallica used a Mesa mark IV into a modded JCM800 to record guitar on Master of Puppets. It’s a cool technique. I’m not sure which was slaved into which, or how any of that really works.😂
Demark preamp was going into the JMP Poweramp
it couldn't have been a Mark IV those things came out in like 1990 or something, you're thinking of the Mark IIC+.
I think I got bad info from a guitar forum. 😂😂😂
Call me crazy but I really liked the JCM900 power amp here, not sure if it's because of the JMP output transformer but I really liked it. Not a lot of low end content, but very midrangy and surprisingly smooth treble compared to some of the others. I also really enjoyed the Strategy 400 Stereo at the very end, it had probably the least amount of low end out of all of them, but the midrange was there in spades (to the point of being a little nasally, which most people hate but I personally really like).
I agree the 4100 sounded great amplifying the 5150 preamp. I like the 4100 a lot, it’s certainly different from the 2203/4 but it gets a lot of undue hate. The preamp circuits of the 2203/4 and the 4100 are so wildly different they shouldn’t even be compared to one another and it’s unfortunate the jcm900 series gets so much shit
The 5881 section of the SLO was God Tier. Super defined, still enough mid squank without becoming too over saturated, and the cab resonance was actually perfect. I bet double tracking that left and right would give an incredible 3D low end.
Don't let Glenn Fricker see this 🤣
Wow those are interesting results! No clear winners although the difference between more mid forward ones and more scooped ones in the order of amps definitely made for a few "ugh nope" moments, that I had to skip back and forth to compare with others to fully get if I really didn't like a certain amp or if it was just because it came after a mid-heavy one. Best example was the Mesa Mark coming after the Revv, big "ugh where are the mids" even though I didn't like the Revv that much.
Standouts for me were the Engl, Bogner... Ubershall I think? The KT88 one, EVH, JSX, and of course the big Mesa fridge at the end.
Not impressed by the Omega or Invective at all 😖 or the solid state ones obviously. I was surprised I liked the Recto more than the Mark, though I'm guessing the 5 band EQ works on the power section? 700 all the way down like this remind me too much of AJFA, and maybe that's more tailored to the Mark preamps anyway 😅
The Rhodes and the mesa 400 do it for me
From my experience the tube "goodness" or analog warmth comes from the power amp.
It's also something I've never heard in a recording recording
Twice the SLICE 👶🎤🙏🥤👶🎤🙏🥤,, do they still.make SLICE SODA ,,, FOR THE SWAP MEATS
The 6L6 amps sounded pretty weak here, the reason being your cab choice. The problem is Orange insist on using 16 ohm Vintage 30s which sound significantly different to 8 ohm V30s that you would find in Mesa, ENGL and many other cabs, And yes, I know Mesa use UK made ones which are voiced slightly differently, but the 8/16 ohm difference is way more dramatic. 16 ohm speakers have a good chunk of the mids scooped out and a fizzy top end compared to the 8s, which is not ideal for high gain. This is true of any speaker but it's particularly noticeable with V30s. Because of this, darker sounding amps will better counter the EQ profile of the cab.
My top 3 were: Omega Granophyre 100w EL34, Diezel Hagen 100w KT77, Peavey Invective 120 6L6.
The Omega to me was the better EL34 power section with the peavey 5150 preamp. Had a good balance of chugging lows, & cut through highs.
Diezel Hagan's KT77's were a nice taste, also enough low end, & perhaps a little bit less highs than the Omega (but this is down to internal design more than the power tubes themselves perhaps). Still a good flavour
Invective's 6L6 with the 5150 pre, damn - never knew a 5150 could sound much more open, & the power in the low end just clear roar.
Honorable mention goes to Boogie Mark IV. Beefy!!
🤘🏼🔥Hey, Kyle - here’s a combination for you to try: MESA-BOOGIE Triaxis preamp with a MESA-BOOGIE Simulclass 2:90 Power Amp.
The best tone I've ever heard was TWO 5150's through a Mesa Boogie Strategy 400 and four Vintage 30 cabinets.
Love reading these comments. Always cracks me up. Sweet video as usual Kyle.
Only made 2 mistakes playing that riff 20 times.. good job.. once I heard the Bogner KT-88 it was over.. huge sound..tight.. articulate..and isnt it amazing ecen the boogie MIV made it thick and flabby..amazibg test..subtle..but its there
NB : you can try that ITB with the Two Notes WOS (wall of sound) and Genome plugins, which carries different poweramp sims
Man that Blackstar Amp 1 crushed the Powerstage big time! 😮 I was really impressed. It definitely stood on its own with the tube heads. I’m sold! Haha
interesting test, cheers for doing that.
Sound differences are kinda like what you'd get from a simple speaker swap in a closed back cab.
Don't forget the 5150 amp is very particular about the last valve driver stage before the power amp valves. If you change that valve you get variances heard in this demo, Drop in a 5751 into first or last position for lower gain but hotter drive.
My favs are the Uberschall, the SLO, the Mark IV, and the Omega. That's just me, but there it is.
Was it just me, or was the Mark IV and the Peavey 5150 power section kinda similar? I was sliding the audio back and forth listening. 😂 This was a great video btw!
I love this stuff! My favorite was the Uber Ultra with the Diezel closely behind. The Blackstar hangs right along with the rest too!
Kyle I liked the Engel the best. IMO the output tranformers also make a huge difference. Its the whole package that change the tone.
I am really digging this channel of yours. How about giving some pickups a try you haven't before? As a fellow thrasher I'd love to hear some of your rhythm playing through some Dimarzio and others.
this is unnecessary anymore
jesus made the amp/cabinet emulator, use it
don't be an expensive equipment gatekeeper
you know, like posuer yuppies who buy 5150s
I just woke up and saw this and not being fully awake thought it was a 20 overdrives through a 5150. Oh well maybe another video, still cool though.
Its funny how glen says speakers the only thing matters comparing my emgs and blackout pickuos through my katana head and cab theres a HUGE diff......but he sells impulse responses sooooooooo yeahhhhh
Why was the 200W solid state power amp quieter than the 100W solid state power amp?
YEAH!
Fryette Poweramps definitely still reign supreme.
Silvania 6L6 peavey5150 power section
I fuggin LOVE this channel!!! So nerdy w the shit!! Thanks man!!
I've read Strung Out used an "original 5150" and a Marshall Valvestate on Twisted By Design. I've also read Ryan Greene used the Dual Recifier power section. I see why, that was one of my favorite combos. I also liked the 5150III, which is not surprising.
That is a masterpiece of a punk album. One of my all time favoirites. That said, I remember chatting with Rob about guitar stuff after a show in 2000 and he said they used his 5150 and 2 channel triple rec on Twisted. I have read the same as you though about the valvestate. Would love to hear Ryan Greene's take on it.
@@SluggerStark That makes sense. Jake said the 5150 and the Valvestate thing. I'd only heard the slaving thing from one source, so who knows if it's accurate? Also, I asked Dave Nassie (former NUFAN guitarist and my current teacher) about the 5150 and Valvestate thing. He said it sounded right. He also said he had a Diezel and an Epiphone Les Paul with only a fifth string and a third string. They were right beside each other so they could play octaves like normal power chords. Greene was meticulous.
Man that Blackstar is surprisingly good. Seems like a lot better value than the Duncan.
Some amps are surprisingly neutral/flat/not hyped or bright. Not a bad thing either.
preferred the stock 5150, invective, and the boogie mark for the power section tones. the old 5150 block letter really is a beast on it's own. glad i got one here :D
Stock Sylvania 6L6 sounds the best IMO
So many bleachers experts ... first tube type does not change anything per say, what changes is the current draw and the transformer, tube types will have different resistance and this is what changes the "tone" because it changes the voltage being regulated by the output transformer. So when Kyle says the power amp is "voiced" he is right and also wrong. The power amp is calibrated to the required and desired output from the transformer to have a biased stable current draw/resistance in the whole power amp circuit... so for those who follow this is why tubes need to be biased to not red plate or be starved because you will feed too little or too much current to the output section if it is not biased properly and in the end loose tightness and volume ou have a harsh power output. So yes power amps do make a difference and is part of the "voice" of an amp. Of course, I assume we are not getting in power amp types, AB vs D makes a major difference for example.
the Mesa Boogie Strategy 400 sounded like Kill Em All!
Surprised you didn’t do the dsl50watt. That one sounds good with a lot of amps weirdly enough,
Nice video.
Could you tell me how to connect the amp for just using the preamp into other amps power amp section?
Thanks
I like how the Captor is moving because of the vibration :D
Very cool comparison. I wish he would have considered presence and depth controls on the power amps that had those controls, since their settings would also make a difference.
in all honest the speaker and the choice of mic does the result here.
The differences noticeable or not or monute to me and the volume isn't normalized between some of the amps. So take it for what it is but for me it is a not good comparison at all. I'd also put a decent buffer in between just to minimize roll off. What is the specs on the Peavey loop? Not so good. He should have used a standard preamp.
The KSR Artemis would be nice to see. VHT 2502, 2902. I don’t have a preference, among these. All of the amps are nice, keepers. Liked the Friedman, for an EL34 Marshall, it sounds quite thick.
Honestly, the JMP and stock are my favorites !
lol this video proved that it doesn’t matter. no one is hearing the difference in a mix, stop worrying about gear and just practice more
I think I prefer the stock 6L6 in this case. Best solid state power amp I've tried (and kept after going through a whole bunch) is a Rocktron Velocity 300 with the Reactance control at about 2 o' clock and Definition at noon.
eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee......
....that's the sound in my ears now .......!!! ahah!!!!
Hello kyle, can you test ksr ceres on amped 1 vs power stage please? Thanks...
I did not know u had a 2nd channel 😳 😅 and i did not know u played a PRS i saw u yesterday on Instagram with that guitar u are holding ..
Lame answer but honestly the built in power amp sounded the best imo. Some close seconds but it had the best tonal balance imo.
Many of these power-sections of course have obvious depth(reso)/presence controls, but in the case of the rectifier it's easy to not know that the orange-channel's presence is active when using it's power section. iirc modern modes(red or orange cloned to modern) should be avoided when using it as a power amp only. Kyle always runs his orange channel in vintage so I'm sure it was set properly on this vid. Playing with the orange presence helps a lot when running a pedal straight into the rectifier's return.
So there is no way to control the poweramp on red modern mode other than a Mxr eq in the loop?
Tried it today but felt it had to much high. To bad since it sounded so much better than the orange channel.
In modern mode the presence is in the preamp only, but what many people do, especially with the 3-channel recs, is turn the treble way down to broaden the mids and then use the presence to brighten the amp back up.@@ronnymilianowicz5228
The changes could also be due to the FX return stages and phase inverters etc.
I liked both bogners, the peavey and the second to last mesa the best.
They sound pretty much the same like 97%
JSX sounds crazy good as the power in this vid.
I expected the 2 solid state to sound the same...........
you've have to turn presence and depth to min as its an poweramp parameter. or match it between different amps
I’m an oldie. I’ll tell you about the 80s and early 90s. In the 80s it was “You want a Marshall, a Boogie or one of these fancy ADA-MP1s?” Most of us were broke kids so a Marshall combo it was. If you were really broke you got the loudest Peavey combo you could afford.
Then you worked some summer jobs and got your first real amp with a head and a cab. It was a life or death decision. This was going to be your sound because you didn’t have two more summers of high school to work and start over if you picked wrong.
Then you’d get a couple pedals like a chorus and a delay if you were into Rush. Lol. If not, you bought whatever distortion pedal the advertisement promised would melt faces.
For getting sounds we didn’t have much of a way to record anything except boomboxes or a 4 track cassette machine if you had $$$. So all we heard was what was in the room at practice or the bar. With your head down in front of your cab you could try to guess what the audience “might” hear, or if you had a long enough guitar cord to stand out front, if you got a sound check. That’s how we got sounds.
Everything was geared to being heard or at least able to hear yourself at band practice in the basement and live at the bar. The only PA gear a lot of guys had was some kind of Peavey setup with an SM58 for the singer. Forget about micing drums or cabs. That was voodoo, high dollar stuff that the “professional” sound guy at the bar would hopefully have enough mics to do. If not, you hoped he’d at least have a couple of stage monitors for the drummer and singer.
It was bush league, primitive times dragging your gear around in a pickuo and hoping it didn’t rain on way. Fun as hell though.
When the 5150 original flavor came out it was a miracle amp. I still have mine.
Great stories and thought I’m in my 30s not only do I prefer lugging tube amps and cabs but I had a 4 of 8 channels working on an ancient peavey pa head and 2 for $100 at the time pa cabs. Sm58 as advertised and since it was the late 00s I had a 16 track zoom that would burn cds wish I never sold it because I have no idea how to use studio one or launch GGD metal kit. I’m computer illiterate. The 16 track I never figured out editing or overdubs so… don’t screw up or we start again. Miss those times playing guitar for hours a day not hours a month 😞
The EL34 clips were overall the best ones imo.
They all seemed to have their own voice but the invective and mesa mark sounded identical
One thing that's interesting to note is that there's almost no such thing as a "clean tube power amp". The phase inverter design that 99% of class AB power amps use inherently causes a voltage drop on one side of the waveform, which causes the resulting waveform to be asymmetrical, which in turn emphasizes certain harmonics.
EDIT: OMFG, the 5150 into a dual rec power amp combination sounds so good...
Really? Thought was one of the weakest and thinnest sounding of them all.
Surprised to see how much of a difference these made!
Another good nerdy comparison. Nice.
@ 13:25 I noticed the "Resonance" knob on the 5150 is missing and remains missing for the rest of the video. Just wondering what happened? lol Great Video Kyle! My favorite besides the original 5150 was the Invective power amp! I wish I had all these heads! lol
The knob is very loose on the pot stem and literally got rattled off by the cab resonance
That camera angle makes you look tiny beside that amp and cab
Great video and very true that a lot people ignore power amps. I think a de-esser plug in would help your voice sound better in your video, just a suggestion and it's a detail so no biggie.
I really liked the mids of both the VHT and the SLO.
Friedman BE100 or the Saldano imo :)
great video! thanks A lot!
Needs to be said that you had Presence knobs all over the place on these, which is a power amp setting. Not that just leaving them all at noon would be 100% perfect test because they will all still represent a different frequency, but still, that should have been considered, or at least noted in your commentary, as this makes a big difference. Also, that 100w solid state power amp-in-a-box was one of the best sounding of all these....
Setting them at noon on different amps would not show them in any more of an accurate light. They're all going to have different circuits on the negative feedback and of the power amp, different value pots, different tapered pots, etc. Dialing them to where they're brightness is somewhat even between each amp makes a lot more sense then just putting them at noon
My favorite was the Engl
Great vid, I know a lot of work and time goes into putting something like this together.