I don't see a point in looking at top European players' technique. Every one of them is doing their own thing. There is no such thing as table tennis technique in Europe. Liam's technique is completely crazy, with his index finger insanely high on the rubber, an unhinged wrist action, weight all the way back, alpine skiing-style weight transfer with no push from his right foot, etc. There are like 100 things in how he does it that won't work for anyone else on the planet. It works for him, but there is absolutely no reason for any amateur to be looking at this. Thank you for this slow-mo, I always thought his stroke was off the hook crazy, but this gives a unique perspective into how completely mental it actually is.
@@ZynischerDemokrat no one was there to fix it when he was a kid. He’s using the whiplash effect to put a little more speed on the paddle, but of course that comes at the cost of a lot of accuracy. It can work for a pro player who just happens to be talented enough… a poor idea for anyone else :)
@@ZynischerDemokratit’s not textbook but the way it set up the wrist opened up the angle so he can achieve the smooth transition from open bat angle to closed bat angle as needed. This is much better way to have the ball stick to the rubber rather than vice versa (closed to open). The reverse would ruin the swing arch and cause the ball to be out of control, usually fall to the net when tried to brush and fall out when you hit because of lack of dwelling time means less spin. The worst thing is actually you can play that way and put the ball to the opponent side so a lot of newer players never got this problem fixed. I only got this fixed after seeing myself on slow motion camera.
While there are some obvious 'bad' techniques, there is no such thing as a single all encompassing 'perfect' technique. You should be taking the best and most relatable bits from each example to improve you own technique. Immediately ruling out techniques because it isnt widely adopted will put a ceiling on your own development. tldr take everything (good and bad) with a healthy grain of salt :)
Astounding slow mo tutorial. I was able to pin point my own mistakes. Thank you Tom Lodziak for putting such great videos. I bought your book the other day and learning lots of knew things. I started playing TT 3 months ago, and your channel and the book are a hidden gem. Thank you!
I have seen many of your videos over the years, and this is my favorite one so far. I feel that there are many great points that I can use to help my own game. I also see that in the setup, his wrist is flexed on this right hand, while your hand is extended. I am not sure how relevant that is, but there is a big difference. All the best!
This series of videos with amateur/pro player in slow motion is incredible. Thanks for the good work, it is really interesting to analyze the technique in such details.
That's a great analysis Tom - thank you and well done. Really worth reflecting on. PS:. Your personal technique seems to keep improving - clearly all those table tennis tips are being put to use for yourself also!! 😉. Your forehand movement and turning and posture is so much better than some years back. Maybe you should do a comparison between your technique then and now!? Cheers Dan
Yes, I think I have improved my technique over the past few years. But I still have such a long list of things to work on. A comparison video of 'old Tom' and 'new Tom' could be interesting.
Amaizing! Thank you very much! I have noticed one more thing that you do different, when watching you from the side, you arm from the start till the moment it hits the ball is making small arc movement, while Liams is going very stright for that section.
About the fluid motion. So there is something called micro adjustment that the amateur players don't do. This is when the player is about to make a shot he is realxing his body and even fingers you can see how Liam is doing it as he kind of lets go of his racket this allows him to make a good swing. And just when he is about to hit the ball you can (barely) see how he tightens up so he can play this strong shot and then relaxes again. This is the micro adjustment. And that's why Tom's movement seems so robotic compared to Laim Pitchford.
We're indeed supposed to tighten our grip only at the very contact of the ball and keep the grip loose at all time, something amateur players rarely do.
outstanding video! one observation. i would never be able to hit FS TS with this much forward because i dont have 1/4 the acceleration that the pro has. it's the acceleration that gives the ball the lift to get up and over the net eh? the forward is what's generating the tremendous speed. if i hit this much forward, i would hit the ball into the net every time. the rest of us. non-pros have to hit w/ a bit more up because of this...unless you're young and strong can can generate that much power from the legs and hips. one key difference i noticed from the video is that Tom's arm rotates back and is a "stiffer" 45 degrees through the weight xfer. but the pro's arm is a bit straighter when back and articulates at the elbow for additional power/speed.
Great video, Tom, though you missed the key difference. Liam's arm is driven by his body rotation; watch how is elbow rotates back and forward in sync with his hips. You arm is moving more independently of your hip rotation; watch your elbow go back and forward ahead of your hips. For this reason, Liam 's power comes from his legs, whereas yours is mostly an arm shot. If you work on keeping your elbow more connected (via shoulders and core tension) to your hips, you'll find you can easily generate more power.
Liam is timing his backswing better too, he's stronger so he can push harder with his legs. His arm is going against his body and then being dragged forward by the rotation. It's a whip type motion which is lacking a bit in your stroke Tom.
Really love the side-to-side comparison, very much highlighting the quality difference between amateurs and real pros. One thing I also somewhat notice is Pitchford seems have faster backswing and preparation phase. Comparatively he starts his backswing later, but contacts the ball at the same time with Lodziak. Tell me if I'm wrong.
yeah, it's very important to don't react 'too fast'. It's a big mistake of mine, I am moving too early so it's easy to miscalculate where the ball will go exactly and how much will it kick off the table. Liam waits a little longer to have a better understanding of the incoming ball.
Strange you didn't mention hips/waist rotation (not only the shoulders!). Absolutely crucial for the power topspin. Your hips rotation, although can't be described as non-existent, lack amplitude and explosiveness.
also, we can see in the slowmo, liam turns his body a bit later, while you turn your body earlier. this builds up more elastic potential which allows him to bounce back faster, kinda like how you can jump higher.
An excellent break down and explanation of Liam’s technique. One other thing I noticed is that he also brings his left arm further across and then swings it back around therefore creating more energy with the rotation of his upper body.
nice analyse video but dont understand me wrong, technicly liam, technic is not pretty good. to much back lean during the topspin. But every player has its on technic
Great tutorial, and the slow motion really helps to understand the key movements and positioning. If Liam does his forehand topspin in the same way as yours, it would go to the net, I believe that the wrist "whip" is what makes the ball go over. It's a very fluid movement, shows how many hours and probably reviewing of footage he's done. The rotation is very fast as well, I've noticed that he uses his left arm to help with the rotation, bringing it in when he goes back and then rotating it out very fast.
Liam’s hit looks like a slap while yours looks like a brush. And wow, so lucky of you to have Liam Pitchfork as a personal pro sample. I’ve seen him in different video if yours.
In all sport it's always super imprecise to see the difference a very good player at a sport and a pro and of course table tennis is a perfect exemple . Super interesting video !!
Another thing that might be worth noticing is Liam’s right shoulder. He keeps it very low during the stroke and at the end it is no higher than his left. Tom’s right shoulder is higher in the stroke and ends up a bit higher than his left. My coach has been pushing me to keep that right shoulder low is why that popped out for me.
you have more safe top spin. I would rather have yours during fast rally. Less movement and more effective during forehand to backhand transition. I think you need to step back a little more when you know that its gonna be a heavy top spin and return it to the right side in order for him to commit mistake using his backhand.
You are making a really common mistake. Your foot is not pointing forwards but to much your right side (see 3:20) . If your foot is in this position, you are physiologically not able to rotate your hip forwards. Try it yourself.
Great video. Been busy playing and finally got a chance to watch this one. Great video. I actually think beginner to intermediate players should work toward your style first and then as they progress, and only then, move on to Liam's style. I still have to be careful to not end up blocking the ball versus really looping it so I still go with the more vertical movement (versus more forward movement) to better insure a looping motion (although Liam is looping too). But that's just me and where I am at right now.
Actually it depends on your playing style. Look at Liam's index finger, posture, and feet movement. It's not a text book style for good control and balance. Watch Zhang Jike, FZD, and Ma Long. Notice their non-playing hand movement and torso. That is more important than the wrist. Never rely on wrists. In high speed games wrist control is the most difficult part.
Nice video. Thanks for posting. Another thing that the pro does is that he unwinds his body before the arm comes forward more than you do. There is a slight delay hard to see in normal speed. This adds a whip like action and the result is that the stroke is faster, more relaxed and fluid. Its like the body is moving the arm more. Body first then arm second. Another thing the pro does a little is that he uses a bent arm takeback and straightens the arm a little in the forward swing. Many Chinese pros straighten the arm a lot more in the forward swing giving even more racket head speed. You need a relaxed arm to do this that most club players never experience.
Hello Tom. At 5:02 in the above video, the BAT ANGLE and the ARM-SWING ANGLE of Liam Pitchford is 40° while YOUR BAT ANGLE and ARM-SWING ANGLE is 56°. Since the COSIN of Liam's 40° BAT ANGLE is 0.766 and the COSIN of YOUR 56° BAT ANGLE is 0.559, then (ignoring for the moment the HIGHER ARC that your LOOP has compared to Liam's LOOP), if we presume for the moment that the SPEED of Liam's ARM-SWING is the same as the SPEED of your ARM-SWING, then simple Trigonometry tells us that the FORWARD MOVEMENT of Liam's LOOP against backspin will be 37% FASTER than yours, because 0.766/0.559 = 1.37. And when we factor in the LOWER ARC of Liam's ball compared to YOUR ball, then this SPEED DIFFERENCE is possibly even GREATER. If you can simply LOWER your BAT ANGLE and ARM-SWING-ANGLE from your current 56° to 45° (a more common BAT ANGLE for ADVANCED players for a LOOP against backspin) the FORWARD BALL SPEED of your LOOP against backspin would increase by 26%, because 0.707/0.559 = 1.264.
Tom, I'm not one who typically comments on videos. But I had to take the time to comment on this one. THIS IS AN EXCELLENT AND I DO MEAN, EXCELLENT VIDEO! Thank you very much for the analysis. This is GOLDEN!! I really appreciate it!!
As good as Liams stroke is (and we're obviously talking x10 times better than us intermediate reccie players) I'd love to see his FH stroke side by side V Ma Long or Wang CQ...
Some principles are absolutely right. Point your shoulder to the Ball. Get closer to the table. Open your racket more from the start. He hits the ball a little more in the front/laterally to his body. Liam basically has the perfect timing for hitting that ball because his legwork is superior aswell. And liams leg position is more parallell at the backspin ball, which brings his center of gravitiy closer to the ball. This is super important, because you will loose stability, if your leg is too far away from the ball, which often leads to weird arm movement and a bent upper body (backwards), absolutely worst case for a stroke
It's probably uncalled for but I find technical flaws in the professional part. Liam Pitchford is 1000x the player I am but still ... Feet parallel, body leaning back, fist twisting in then out then in ... those are things you don't see with the Chinese professionals. The feet are slightly oblique, the weight transfer is more pronounced, the body is moving more foreward (hence the bat) and the bat goes from a neutral to a slightly open angle. Liam is so strong at table tennis and has performed this stroke so often, that his idiosyncrasy works better for him than adopting proper form at this stage. But it's not necessarily the best form to learn from.
@TomLodziak Thank you Tom and Liam so much! so useful video!! the details are very important! pls do the same forehand drive/loop/counter top spin. guys like this comment so Tom can see it
You are missing what is really going on with his technique, and I hear all the time "upper body rotation" which is incorrect. What I saw as the primary difference is "starting speed" prior to ball contact. He accelerates prior to ball contact, and you (Tom) accelerate "at" ball contact forward - there is no speed generated at ball contact, it's always prior to contact. Additionally, you don't accelerate speed (aka, starting speed) using the Upper Boddy, all speed is generated from the entire lower body in a spring coiled relaxed state, then with full hip rotation you have room to release that spring, with a strong connection to the ground forward to the table, generating the starting speed required prior to ball contact in a 45-degree trajectory. This is a concept that is so misunderstood and "not" taught in table tennis but is key for balance and speed. Most in the table tennis world explain that concept as upper body rotation and weight transfer, which is incorrect, slow, lacks balance, etc. It should be thought of as lower body rotation, and "snap", or "shift", weight forward to generate maximum starting speed with maximum body stability and the upper body and arms just go along for the ride - and stopping that action in the center ready for the next shot. The pressure downward to the floor (at the snap or shift) is just a nano-second to shift the starting speed and weight forward for ball contact.
Thanks for the video and everything you do. I think you missed the most important difference which is the racket face angle in the back swing. Liam lets the racket see the sky, which then allows him to go forward, as you mentioned, while your racket is too closed and you are enforced to actually open it up in your forward swing motion, finishing above your forehead. I see *a lot* of players strugling with this stroke because of this issue, so I think it could be very helpful to point it out. The thumbnail shows literally the best possible frame to see it
Somebody pointed out to me that my BH stroke was too much up than forward. I realized that corrected it. My BH stroke used to be slow and had a high arc and how it's flatter and faster. Similar to what you have found on the FH.
imo liam has another key... he starts his stroke wirh an relative open blade and is like spooning the spin from below like waldner did this more extremely on def-players. liam is not generating a lot of 'top'spin, i think he is more in advantage of the oponents 'back' spin...
what impresses me is his balance even after playing the shot so powerfully his body is straight I am facing the problem where i can only play towards the forehand side of ring hand not the back hand side and my body rotates afterwards but my shorts are very fast when I manage to play but body is a mess afterwards.
@@Shrimp0kUgel Yes, but sometimes we can play/push 20 shots before changing to forehand . It's boring but I cannot force him to play faster. He is waiting for my mistake to attack and it works for him...
@@matok7036 I see! I know the feeling.. I now try to loop every backspin ball that goes long, but I'm not very consistent at that yet. Keep training, and hopefully you will be able to loop backspin balls! Good luck.
There is only one elephant in the room, and thats that such analytical approaches is the brainy way of explaining away the suffering and effort that is actually needed to get your form into this type of performance. If you repeat the movement enough times, the body will itself make it efficient, because you are too tired to not do it efficiently. This means you have to try and hit it hard thousands and thousands of times, and the technique will be efficient.
Correct. All strokes on table tennis require an extraordinary amount of repetition. It is only possible to play like Liam when the technique becomes part of your subconscious. He doesn't think about how to do this shot. He just does it.
At this point, after starting tt at 30 now 5 years into it, I missed the train to become a professional player by about 25 years. For beginners at young age, this tutorial is very good. Since I will never become proficient at having such a good fh topspin, I rather stick to being an annoying pusher/chopper instead, giving average loopers a very hard time.
@@BloodEmpireGPLP I didn't give up yet. With a Federal League playing trainer right now who shows me the "magic" of table tennis, my topspin game improved dramatically. Sometimes (occuring more often week by week) I hit the ball just at the perfect time, with the least effort but maximum speed, spin and precision and that gives me hope. I don't even need long pips any more on my backhand to slow down the game if needed. 5 more years and I might become a middle class player in one of my provinces. But that will take a lot of effort, I'm just half way there. Being proficient at the basics just after 5 years shows how complex of a sport table tennis is.
I can do similar stokes as the professionals, because I practice with a robot; but, when I am playing vs. a player, I am not able to read my opponent quickly enough to move my feet fast enough and make use of the strokes. There are tons of videos of me playing on my channel, both vs. players and with the robot.
Thankyou for an interesting video, whilst its very effective for Liam, I dont think its necessarily an ideal technique to copy. it would help too if the clothes worn by player were of contrasting colors so you could see more of the body position during the stroke, such as hips and waist area during technique.
I don't see a point in looking at top European players' technique. Every one of them is doing their own thing. There is no such thing as table tennis technique in Europe. Liam's technique is completely crazy, with his index finger insanely high on the rubber, an unhinged wrist action, weight all the way back, alpine skiing-style weight transfer with no push from his right foot, etc. There are like 100 things in how he does it that won't work for anyone else on the planet. It works for him, but there is absolutely no reason for any amateur to be looking at this. Thank you for this slow-mo, I always thought his stroke was off the hook crazy, but this gives a unique perspective into how completely mental it actually is.
I am not getting what he is doing with his wrist. I think it doesn't support the stroke at all. Also I think the video is not bad at all.
@@ZynischerDemokrat no one was there to fix it when he was a kid. He’s using the whiplash effect to put a little more speed on the paddle, but of course that comes at the cost of a lot of accuracy. It can work for a pro player who just happens to be talented enough… a poor idea for anyone else :)
@@ZynischerDemokratit’s not textbook but the way it set up the wrist opened up the angle so he can achieve the smooth transition from open bat angle to closed bat angle as needed. This is much better way to have the ball stick to the rubber rather than vice versa (closed to open). The reverse would ruin the swing arch and cause the ball to be out of control, usually fall to the net when tried to brush and fall out when you hit because of lack of dwelling time means less spin.
The worst thing is actually you can play that way and put the ball to the opponent side so a lot of newer players never got this problem fixed. I only got this fixed after seeing myself on slow motion camera.
I naturally do that same pointer finger in my FH
While there are some obvious 'bad' techniques, there is no such thing as a single all encompassing 'perfect' technique. You should be taking the best and most relatable bits from each example to improve you own technique. Immediately ruling out techniques because it isnt widely adopted will put a ceiling on your own development. tldr take everything (good and bad) with a healthy grain of salt :)
The side by side view of a pro & amateur is so ingenious. Well done Sensei Tom!
Astounding slow mo tutorial. I was able to pin point my own mistakes. Thank you Tom Lodziak for putting such great videos. I bought your book the other day and learning lots of knew things. I started playing TT 3 months ago, and your channel and the book are a hidden gem. Thank you!
Thanks Amir for watching and buying the book. Keep on playing and I hope you make good progress over the next few months.
@@TomLodziak Please make a video Explaining Types, effects of Spins on Ball & How to Play or Counter them❓️
These types of videos teaching table tennis has made me fall in love with this game. Keep up the good work bro
I have seen many of your videos over the years, and this is my favorite one so far. I feel that there are many great points that I can use to help my own game. I also see that in the setup, his wrist is flexed on this right hand, while your hand is extended. I am not sure how relevant that is, but there is a big difference. All the best!
This series of videos with amateur/pro player in slow motion is incredible. Thanks for the good work, it is really interesting to analyze the technique in such details.
Thanks for sharing. Appreciate the slowmo and 4k too 👍🏼
Tom all Your videos are excellent. I am sure whole TT community will get benefited by it. Thank You!
Thank you for guiding me as i return back post 3 decades!
Thank you for another great video with Liam. Wait for more.
That's a great analysis Tom - thank you and well done. Really worth reflecting on.
PS:. Your personal technique seems to keep improving - clearly all those table tennis tips are being put to use for yourself also!! 😉. Your forehand movement and turning and posture is so much better than some years back. Maybe you should do a comparison between your technique then and now!?
Cheers
Dan
Yes, I think I have improved my technique over the past few years. But I still have such a long list of things to work on. A comparison video of 'old Tom' and 'new Tom' could be interesting.
Amaizing! Thank you very much! I have noticed one more thing that you do different, when watching you from the side, you arm from the start till the moment it hits the ball is making small arc movement, while Liams is going very stright for that section.
I learned much, thanks!!! love your tutorial
Tom this is enormously helpful. Please do more like this
Just watched one game by Liam in the 2022 Chengdu WTT championships, He is a very strong TT player!
About the fluid motion. So there is something called micro adjustment that the amateur players don't do. This is when the player is about to make a shot he is realxing his body and even fingers you can see how Liam is doing it as he kind of lets go of his racket this allows him to make a good swing. And just when he is about to hit the ball you can (barely) see how he tightens up so he can play this strong shot and then relaxes again. This is the micro adjustment. And that's why Tom's movement seems so robotic compared to Laim Pitchford.
We're indeed supposed to tighten our grip only at the very contact of the ball and keep the grip loose at all time, something amateur players rarely do.
outstanding video! one observation. i would never be able to hit FS TS with this much forward because i dont have 1/4 the acceleration that the pro has. it's the acceleration that gives the ball the lift to get up and over the net eh? the forward is what's generating the tremendous speed. if i hit this much forward, i would hit the ball into the net every time. the rest of us. non-pros have to hit w/ a bit more up because of this...unless you're young and strong can can generate that much power from the legs and hips. one key difference i noticed from the video is that Tom's arm rotates back and is a "stiffer" 45 degrees through the weight xfer. but the pro's arm is a bit straighter when back and articulates at the elbow for additional power/speed.
Great video, Tom, though you missed the key difference. Liam's arm is driven by his body rotation; watch how is elbow rotates back and forward in sync with his hips. You arm is moving more independently of your hip rotation; watch your elbow go back and forward ahead of your hips. For this reason, Liam 's power comes from his legs, whereas yours is mostly an arm shot. If you work on keeping your elbow more connected (via shoulders and core tension) to your hips, you'll find you can easily generate more power.
I would add a 4th important point: the weight transfer..really very obvious difference between u both
In my opinion, the most important difference between them...
Liam is timing his backswing better too, he's stronger so he can push harder with his legs. His arm is going against his body and then being dragged forward by the rotation. It's a whip type motion which is lacking a bit in your stroke Tom.
Really love the side-to-side comparison, very much highlighting the quality difference between amateurs and real pros. One thing I also somewhat notice is Pitchford seems have faster backswing and preparation phase. Comparatively he starts his backswing later, but contacts the ball at the same time with Lodziak. Tell me if I'm wrong.
yeah, it's very important to don't react 'too fast'. It's a big mistake of mine, I am moving too early so it's easy to miscalculate where the ball will go exactly and how much will it kick off the table. Liam waits a little longer to have a better understanding of the incoming ball.
Strange you didn't mention hips/waist rotation (not only the shoulders!). Absolutely crucial for the power topspin. Your hips rotation, although can't be described as non-existent, lack amplitude and explosiveness.
Great video, coach
The major difference is the wrist action. Snapping when hitting create a lot more power vs. Fixed wrist!
That was a million Dollar demonstration.
Thanks.
Excellent analysis!!
Tom, these latest videos with Liam are incredible! Please keep em coming!
also, we can see in the slowmo, liam turns his body a bit later, while you turn your body earlier. this builds up more elastic potential which allows him to bounce back faster, kinda like how you can jump higher.
Im trying to make an animation of people playing table tennis. This is great to use!
An excellent break down and explanation of Liam’s technique. One other thing I noticed is that he also brings his left arm further across and then swings it back around therefore creating more energy with the rotation of his upper body.
nice analyse video but dont understand me wrong, technicly liam, technic is not pretty good. to much back lean during the topspin. But every player has its on technic
That "got one" kinda shows your frustration not returning one for 5 min...
Yeah, it was hardly celebratory. More frustration that I was finding it so hard!
my coach told me ever never to swing topspin like Liamford....
he said. the grip bent towards wrist .. thats the worst swing.
Great tutorial, and the slow motion really helps to understand the key movements and positioning. If Liam does his forehand topspin in the same way as yours, it would go to the net, I believe that the wrist "whip" is what makes the ball go over. It's a very fluid movement, shows how many hours and probably reviewing of footage he's done. The rotation is very fast as well, I've noticed that he uses his left arm to help with the rotation, bringing it in when he goes back and then rotating it out very fast.
Good catch on Liam's left hand
Liam’s hit looks like a slap while yours looks like a brush. And wow, so lucky of you to have Liam Pitchfork as a personal pro sample. I’ve seen him in different video if yours.
well done on the one block Tom .
Ha! Not much of an achievement!
One thing I noticed is Liam's breathing technique. He holds his breath and only exhales during/after he hits the ball.
yes he got a sick topspin for sure
dont forget his racket with the carbon blade and the hard rubbers is probably 2x faster than urs too thou ;)
Salam olahraga, salam satu hobi dan salam kenal untuk semuanya..
Terima kasih coach ilmunya 👋🙏
Great stuff! Love the comparison (and the humility :D it's not always easy analysis your own self!)
Thanks for great video
Great video! Today was my first practice doing FH topspin. Really helpful. Greeting from Argentina.
In all sport it's always super imprecise to see the difference a very good player at a sport and a pro and of course table tennis is a perfect exemple . Super interesting video !!
Another thing that might be worth noticing is Liam’s right shoulder. He keeps it very low during the stroke and at the end it is no higher than his left. Tom’s right shoulder is higher in the stroke and ends up a bit higher than his left. My coach has been pushing me to keep that right shoulder low is why that popped out for me.
you have more safe top spin. I would rather have yours during fast rally. Less movement and more effective during forehand to backhand transition. I think you need to step back a little more when you know that its gonna be a heavy top spin and return it to the right side in order for him to commit mistake using his backhand.
You are making a really common mistake. Your foot is not pointing forwards but to much your right side (see 3:20) . If your foot is in this position, you are physiologically not able to rotate your hip forwards. Try it yourself.
Exactly..good explanation
Great video. Been busy playing and finally got a chance to watch this one. Great video. I actually think beginner to intermediate players should work toward your style first and then as they progress, and only then, move on to Liam's style. I still have to be careful to not end up blocking the ball versus really looping it so I still go with the more vertical movement (versus more forward movement) to better insure a looping motion (although Liam is looping too). But that's just me and where I am at right now.
Actually it depends on your playing style. Look at Liam's index finger, posture, and feet movement. It's not a text book style for good control and balance.
Watch Zhang Jike, FZD, and Ma Long. Notice their non-playing hand movement and torso. That is more important than the wrist. Never rely on wrists. In high speed games wrist control is the most difficult part.
Really good idea this comparison series Tom. It helps a lot correcting the own technique. Thanks
Nice video. Thanks for posting. Another thing that the pro does is that he unwinds his body before the arm comes forward more than you do. There is a slight delay hard to see in normal speed. This adds a whip like action and the result is that the stroke is faster, more relaxed and fluid. Its like the body is moving the arm more. Body first then arm second.
Another thing the pro does a little is that he uses a bent arm takeback and straightens the arm a little in the forward swing. Many Chinese pros straighten the arm a lot more in the forward swing giving even more racket head speed. You need a relaxed arm to do this that most club players never experience.
Incredibly useful video! Slomo is great and very well explained! Thank you and please keep these coming! 😊👍 Subscribed!
Hi Tom, your technique is pretty much alright.
Also you didn't point out the cocked wrist. Starts forward, bends back, and then whips forward.
One of the most useful videos on UA-cam to improve TS…thx much
Question: I'm left-handed - is it an advantage or disadvantage when playing against right-handed? Do I have to do something differently?
Hello Tom. At 5:02 in the above video, the BAT ANGLE and the ARM-SWING ANGLE of Liam Pitchford is 40° while YOUR BAT ANGLE and ARM-SWING ANGLE is 56°.
Since the COSIN of Liam's 40° BAT ANGLE is 0.766 and the COSIN of YOUR 56° BAT ANGLE is 0.559, then (ignoring for the moment the HIGHER ARC that your LOOP
has compared to Liam's LOOP), if we presume for the moment that the SPEED of Liam's ARM-SWING is the same as the SPEED of your ARM-SWING, then simple
Trigonometry tells us that the FORWARD MOVEMENT of Liam's LOOP against backspin will be 37% FASTER than yours,
because 0.766/0.559 = 1.37. And when we factor in the LOWER ARC of Liam's ball compared to YOUR ball, then this SPEED DIFFERENCE is possibly even GREATER.
If you can simply LOWER your BAT ANGLE and ARM-SWING-ANGLE from your current 56° to 45° (a more common BAT ANGLE for ADVANCED players for a LOOP against
backspin) the FORWARD BALL SPEED of your LOOP against backspin would increase by 26%, because 0.707/0.559 = 1.264.
We can also see that Liam breathes out during contact (correct!), while it looks like Tom does not (wrong).
Tom, I'm not one who typically comments on videos. But I had to take the time to comment on this one. THIS IS AN EXCELLENT AND I DO MEAN, EXCELLENT VIDEO! Thank you very much for the analysis. This is GOLDEN!! I really appreciate it!!
Thanks for the feedback. Hope the video helps in some small way.
Tom, very thanks for making the video with Liam. I am sure to improve as you have shown.
A superb video. One of your best, Tom. Thank you for your help.
As good as Liams stroke is (and we're obviously talking x10 times better than us intermediate reccie players) I'd love to see his FH stroke side by side V Ma Long or Wang CQ...
Watching this video makes me want to become a tennis ball. They get all the attention, and they don't even have to do anything! 🎾😅
Some principles are absolutely right.
Point your shoulder to the Ball.
Get closer to the table.
Open your racket more from the start.
He hits the ball a little more in the front/laterally to his body.
Liam basically has the perfect timing for hitting that ball because his legwork is superior aswell.
And liams leg position is more parallell at the backspin ball, which brings his center of gravitiy closer to the ball. This is super important, because you will loose stability, if your leg is too far away from the ball, which often leads to weird arm movement and a bent upper body (backwards), absolutely worst case for a stroke
It's probably uncalled for but I find technical flaws in the professional part. Liam Pitchford is 1000x the player I am but still ...
Feet parallel, body leaning back, fist twisting in then out then in ... those are things you don't see with the Chinese professionals. The feet are slightly oblique, the weight transfer is more pronounced, the body is moving more foreward (hence the bat) and the bat goes from a neutral to a slightly open angle.
Liam is so strong at table tennis and has performed this stroke so often, that his idiosyncrasy works better for him than adopting proper form at this stage. But it's not necessarily the best form to learn from.
@TomLodziak Thank you Tom and Liam so much! so useful video!! the details are very important! pls do the same forehand drive/loop/counter top spin. guys like this comment so Tom can see it
You are missing what is really going on with his technique, and I hear all the time "upper body rotation" which is incorrect. What I saw as the primary difference is "starting speed" prior to ball contact. He accelerates prior to ball contact, and you (Tom) accelerate "at" ball contact forward - there is no speed generated at ball contact, it's always prior to contact. Additionally, you don't accelerate speed (aka, starting speed) using the Upper Boddy, all speed is generated from the entire lower body in a spring coiled relaxed state, then with full hip rotation you have room to release that spring, with a strong connection to the ground forward to the table, generating the starting speed required prior to ball contact in a 45-degree trajectory. This is a concept that is so misunderstood and "not" taught in table tennis but is key for balance and speed. Most in the table tennis world explain that concept as upper body rotation and weight transfer, which is incorrect, slow, lacks balance, etc. It should be thought of as lower body rotation, and "snap", or "shift", weight forward to generate maximum starting speed with maximum body stability and the upper body and arms just go along for the ride - and stopping that action in the center ready for the next shot. The pressure downward to the floor (at the snap or shift) is just a nano-second to shift the starting speed and weight forward for ball contact.
Thank you Tom., Is there any Discount Coupon for VICTAS V>22 DOUBLE EXTRA TABLE TENNIS RUBBER ?
Thanks for the video and everything you do.
I think you missed the most important difference which is the racket face angle in the back swing. Liam lets the racket see the sky, which then allows him to go forward, as you mentioned, while your racket is too closed and you are enforced to actually open it up in your forward swing motion, finishing above your forehead.
I see *a lot* of players strugling with this stroke because of this issue, so I think it could be very helpful to point it out.
The thumbnail shows literally the best possible frame to see it
your arm starting postion is other than from liam. he has more a penholder movement, the starting point is higer, and he uses a lot of the wirist also
Somebody pointed out to me that my BH stroke was too much up than forward. I realized that corrected it. My BH stroke used to be slow and had a high arc and how it's flatter and faster. Similar to what you have found on the FH.
imo liam has another key...
he starts his stroke wirh an relative open blade and is like spooning the spin from below like waldner did this more extremely on def-players.
liam is not generating a lot of 'top'spin, i think he is more in advantage of the oponents 'back' spin...
Notice also Liam bends his wrist inwards on thr take back and then straightens it when he makes contact
Amazing comparison and analysis. Thank you Tom
what impresses me is his balance even after playing the shot so powerfully his body is straight I am facing the problem where i can only play towards the forehand side of ring hand not the back hand side and my body rotates afterwards but my shorts are very fast when I manage to play but body is a mess afterwards.
god every time liam does a forehand its like a gun being shot lol. Also I am loving this vs pro videos, my backhand improved with that.
This is a really good contribution Tom. Good job!
Pitchford isn’t a successful player ,and his technique is wrong .
👌👌👌🔥🔥🔥
It's a small detail but Liam's breathing also seems different. He holds his breath and then exhales strongly.
Tom you dont use you left leg for turn you body, is like you legs have one brain and you arms other, the boy pro move all with only one brain.
excellent shot making by the liam. but why he so skinny.
Please, make a tutorial how to beat a pusher. My friend is a pusher and he always pushes a ball into my backhand. How to attack such balls?
He has already done it: ua-cam.com/video/5eqfX4iE_jI/v-deo.html
Push back, or backhand loop
@@Shrimp0kUgel Yes, but sometimes we can play/push 20 shots before changing to forehand . It's boring but I cannot force him to play faster. He is waiting for my mistake to attack and it works for him...
@@matok7036 I see! I know the feeling.. I now try to loop every backspin ball that goes long, but I'm not very consistent at that yet. Keep training, and hopefully you will be able to loop backspin balls! Good luck.
@@Shrimp0kUgel Thanks bro! I feel I need this one thing to beat him :P
Sir big fan respect for you from india sir please make video on how to multiple ball for beginners
Sir Please send video about how to play with small pimples rubber at other end.
Your aren't amateur, Sir! I'm one :))
I would "like" this video several times, if I could.
Best yet. The slo-mo is very useful
Liam looks like he could be Peter Crouch's cousin
There is only one elephant in the room, and thats that such analytical approaches is the brainy way of explaining away the suffering and effort that is actually needed to get your form into this type of performance. If you repeat the movement enough times, the body will itself make it efficient, because you are too tired to not do it efficiently. This means you have to try and hit it hard thousands and thousands of times, and the technique will be efficient.
Correct. All strokes on table tennis require an extraordinary amount of repetition. It is only possible to play like Liam when the technique becomes part of your subconscious. He doesn't think about how to do this shot. He just does it.
At this point, after starting tt at 30 now 5 years into it, I missed the train to become a professional player by about 25 years.
For beginners at young age, this tutorial is very good.
Since I will never become proficient at having such a good fh topspin, I rather stick to being an annoying pusher/chopper instead, giving average loopers a very hard time.
Dont give up! Im 35 and I just startet as well, getting in shape to be able to reach that level only for the love of it.
@@BloodEmpireGPLP I didn't give up yet.
With a Federal League playing trainer right now who shows me the "magic" of table tennis, my topspin game improved dramatically.
Sometimes (occuring more often week by week) I hit the ball just at the perfect time, with the least effort but maximum speed, spin and precision and that gives me hope.
I don't even need long pips any more on my backhand to slow down the game if needed.
5 more years and I might become a middle class player in one of my provinces.
But that will take a lot of effort, I'm just half way there.
Being proficient at the basics just after 5 years shows how complex of a sport table tennis is.
hard to find good analysis, excellent!
You should've invited a top Chinese player as well. Their technique is different than the European style
That would be interesting, but I can imagine incredibly challenging to organise. Who knows, maybe there will be an opportunity in the future.
I can do similar stokes as the professionals, because I practice with a robot; but, when I am playing vs. a player, I am not able to read my opponent quickly enough to move my feet fast enough and make use of the strokes. There are tons of videos of me playing on my channel, both vs. players and with the robot.
I also noticed his legs start low and then he springs up
Liam's movement may hurt amateur"s back
Not Amateur definitely. You are definitely humble
I think he means amateur as in "non-pro"
Please Explain the Types of Spins on Ball & their effects and How to Play or Counter them❓️❓️
You missed on the free arm. Observe he initiates the rotation with it to help it, which you can observe with many world class players.
Thankyou for an interesting video, whilst its very effective for Liam, I dont think its necessarily an ideal technique to copy. it would help too if the clothes worn by player were of contrasting colors so you could see more of the body position during the stroke, such as hips and waist area during technique.
these are two different shots, Liam drives through the backspin , Tom makes thin contact and thats slower and spinnier and safer.