clearly the calipers were locking too easily, then even when he released the pedal, were sticking. the car is clearly faulty. it's not a fluke that it happened twice. this guy is a pro
probably timed his braking a little late or brake settings idk who cares, shit happens, even for pros. and he was killing it in the white eg6 on the american togue if you guys think he cant drive FF layouts.
You can clearly tell that Orido simply missed the brake pedal with his foot (or it slipped off) initially...and that small delay prevented him from having enough room to properly brake. Thats what it looked like to me at least.
the brakes locked obviously on the second crash at least, and the FF layout of the Civic causes all the understeer we were seeing and Orido was complaning about it too.
watch initial d. it explains the concept of "left foot breaking" its used in FF cars for weight transfer over the front tires in order to get rid of understeer.
Wish it was captioned, I'd like to know what was said. My theory, the suspension is set up too stiff for the track. The car hopped both times; first time triggering understeer in a corner, second time locking up under braking. That's where ABS and traction control would have played their roll. This is an example of the benefits of having those systems.
lol. If you watch at 5:15 the wheels don't move at all, even though he was turning the steering wheel. It was a lockup. The folks at Touge love VTEC and yes it is a Honda invention. Google "the father of vtec - the temple of vtec asia", great article. Also EG6's are great cars, this one isn't the best example. UA-cam the "EG6 Surprise" to see some random USA kid's car kill the other cars they were racing that day. Not to mention the efforts of Spoon, Mugen, etc.
Weight transfer to the front tires. Left foot braking is what it's called. It helps defeat understeer...Especially if the understeering car is in FF layout. It's a common FF tactic...right up there with using the E-brake to "rotate" the car a little. Also works well for RWD cars with inherent tendencies to oversteer IMHO...Though mashing the gas pedal also defeats understeer in FRs ;)
Orido is a pro so im sure he knows all about when he should brake. Since he is a pro he expects the car to perform as such but it doesnt because its not set up right therefore there is a crash. If you wach the clip carefully (foot camera) at 2:46 he does try lifting off 2 times but the car still goes off. Much easier said than done. Cheers
I'm not real big on Honda's in general, but all I can say is that no matter how you set up a FF car, regardless of the manufacturer, under-steer will eventually force you off the track.
I don't think the problem here is Under-Steering as he was clearly Heel-Toe-Ing.Its more like that the EG6 didn't have ABS.Rumours say that when the EG6 was first release,ABS was Optional.
What happened to that EG? It looks like the brake is jam, as Orido had released the brake few times in the video, the car seem brake all the way, anyone can verify that?
@KuRo88 I know he has no ABS, but chances are, neither do the cars he races professionaly. I did some further research on this, and it seems that when too much line pressure reaches the front brakes, they will lock prematurely (too easily). The solution is to use an adjustable brake proportioning valve to reduce pressure to the front brakes (or rear as the case may be), or to use a larger brake master cylinder. Bigger front brakes on an ABS car can actually add to stopping distance. Thx.
I met in a similar accident with my car a few years ago... except mine was on the road, and involved another vehicle. Did the guy from "Seeker" give any indication as to what caused it to tend to lock the fronts so easily? Twice in one day with the same car is NOT driver error.
You think they put a built B16B in that thing without doing the suspension? When they scroll through the specs you see it says F20, R18 between a bunch of Japanese. That says 20kg/mm front and 18kg/mm rear (just to give you an idea of how serious that suspension setup is).
@240BHPB18CEG your point is valid. although i dont think speed have to do anything with brake locking up. there have to be something that cause it to locked up.
omg does anyone pay attention to the driver's hand when they show the cockpit view? look at the drift king's hands at 1:28. oh my fucking god, he has such quick reaction and quick countersteering. its like watching it in fast forward. man, i wish i could counter steer like he does.
nah the problem was the brakes. i dont speak japanese but my guess is that the brakes lock up too easily. he was driving the car at its absolute limit and pushed it just a little too far. thats what we have abs braking systems for. but a properly set up braking system combined with a talented and experienced driver eliminates the need for abs. this is probably a tuning issue.
FF always require alot of skills to utilize properly. Simply to many variables to take into account when racing. The tire wear, traction and pressure of the front tires, etc.
i dont think its the driver issue. i think the guy didnt upgrade his drum brake on the rear wheel. this happen to be before when i was going fast repeatedly slam my brakes and the drum brake would lock up by itself. i think that could be the cause. when you watch his 2nd crash you can see he left off and on and still hear the tired slide and the car didnt turn
Orido is very skilled in handling FF's, as shown in his videos driving Spoon's Civics and Integras. It's just that the Seeker EG6's handling is so crappy
Unfortunately this is like the first time i saw orido and obviously this was a bad video to show what orido is all about. He's my second favorite driver now after i seen more videos of him. He is AMAZING!
He was just going a few mph too fast for that corner.. The road conditions were probably bad (leaves and dust) and caused oversteer when he was continuing out of the corner.
@001Rupes well, im pretty sure he races cars with no abs. but a racedriver usually knows his car. plus orido drives RWD cars usually. could be a cars fault, but doesnt have to.
@lucasracing i think he crashed cause he missjudged the left corner just before ... . he cut the corner left front wheel was in the grass lost traction and was going to fast to save it he locked up because he knew he was going in the trees .. nothing wrong with the setup just a bad judgement call from a brilliant driver
@BlueRice this is why i tell people who race with civic upgrade their drum brakes. also not only that incident happen to me but learn another hard way.. drill slotted brakes also helps too. when you do a short race all the time on freeway which you shouldnt even street race, the regular brakes get hot and it wouldnt stop that good. my car hit the rail spun out but the car was ok just scatch and dents. i guess eveything need to be upgrade for safety not just performance
They must have slightly off brake balance between the front sides, or its too high in the front so it has high pressure air under it. I've seen orido drive on the edge in an EG6 against the other guy in an impreza and kept up. Its a mistake in the car if its safe to drive at a speed except under braking.
There's something wrong with the civic. Pay attention of how Orido turn the steering wheel 5:28 before it crash and the front wheels of the car.(not turning) 5:19
lol the wheels still lock after releasing the brake several times, he also turn the steering wheel but the tires didnt turn.definitely not the drivers error
yeah, right? the first time it looked like Orido's mistake for not letting go off the brakes, but the second it was obvious that the brakes locked as soon as he touched them, yeah? (I'm not sure myself, that's why i'm asking)
@BlueRice there're a lot of factors however when theres a tuned up car like this then it comes to the driver. I never thought Orido is a bad driver and in fact, he is a professional, but just no on FF cars. I never seen Tsuchiya had these sort of problems yet. He locked up his brakes mostly because he doesnt clearly know what speed that civic is capable to do in that corner, therefore, wrong brake point.
@120mphmoto the most you can find out in this without watching the actual dvd is a sector time. and the rx7 obviously won since the civic couldnt even make it half way down.
haha... so this was the first time! i haven't seen this one so i was searching! he posted pics about crashing an amuse nissan z some weeks back and so many comments said he did it again so i had to find this!
That's purely a driving mistake (Orido's still good, shit happens). He shouldn't have braked, but just lifted off instead. Avoid braking when you feel you're overspeeding is very difficult : you will generally react by wanting to slow down quickly, and it is very difficult to overcome this. I nearly did something similar a few weeks ago, but had just the right margin to stop before hitting something. When I was stopped, I realised I could have passed the corner if I just let the car go in.
ehhhh... just looked like a simple understeer from inertia. Brakes didn't locked up since u can hear separate squeals according to steps on the brake - if it locked up, you'd hear a single long squeal. He braked too hard which accumulated inertia to the front tires which you could notice at 2:47 (footwork & steering), he already lost it when he first braked. Technically, could be caused by many things, but sometimes pro drivers also made mistakes, as long as the owner say - No problem, it's OK.
I think his crash was better than your scenario. If he had kept straight, he would have for sure hit a tree and severely damaged at least the front suspension.
![[ENG CC] Seeker EG6 vs. Bandoe AE86 vs. Spirits MRS Touge 200 HV81](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/0VKJzRTHhuw/mqdefault.jpg)
![[ENG CC] Seeker EG6 vs. Bandoe AE86 vs. Spirits MRS Touge 200 HV81](/img/tr.png)
clearly the calipers were locking too easily, then even when he released the pedal, were sticking. the car is clearly faulty. it's not a fluke that it happened twice. this guy is a pro
yep. you can hear it locking actually.
first dash cam from the sprinter, third time orido pressed the brake.
Orido crashes and Tsuchiya's first response is to laugh. What a great friend LMAO!
love the hand break after the crash xD
ironic how shingo, the guy who drives a red eg6 in INTIAL D, crashes the exact same car orido is driving... XD
probably timed his braking a little late or brake settings idk who cares, shit happens, even for pros. and he was killing it in the white eg6 on the american togue if you guys think he cant drive FF layouts.
Very good, comment!
It was a faulty brake. Brakes locked up, you can even see it in the second race. This was purely mechanical, and nothing else.
Its the brakes not Orido
that laugh at 5:13 is hilarious
That laugh is too funny.
The brakes locked as we can see in the video.
Since its an older car without ABS, locking brakes is a nightmare.
Everyone makes mistakes, it happens to the best of us.
The last crash you can see his foot slip off of the brake just about at 5:27. After that its too late. Looks like no ABS so the wheels lock up.
You can clearly tell that Orido simply missed the brake pedal with his foot (or it slipped off) initially...and that small delay prevented him from having enough room to properly brake. Thats what it looked like to me at least.
That laugh when he watches him disappear off into the bushes lol
the brakes locked obviously on the second crash at least, and the FF layout of the Civic causes all the understeer we were seeing and Orido was complaning about it too.
orido is a toyota driver that works in close proximity with TRD. This is a case of Honda fighting back rofl
joe C there was problems with the brakes in the eg6
those altezza tail lights makin that EG6 understeer like mad
watch initial d. it explains the concept of "left foot breaking" its used in FF cars for weight transfer over the front tires in order to get rid of understeer.
Wish it was captioned, I'd like to know what was said.
My theory, the suspension is set up too stiff for the track. The car hopped both times; first time triggering understeer in a corner, second time locking up under braking.
That's where ABS and traction control would have played their roll. This is an example of the benefits of having those systems.
Tsuchiya:Orido, What happenned?
Orido: VTEC KICKED IN YO!!!!
Orido: Stepping on the gas trying to get away from the RX7.
Tsuchiya: I should just tail gate him.
Orido: (Misses the brakes) Oh shit, Stop!
lol.
If you watch at 5:15 the wheels don't move at all, even though he was turning the steering wheel. It was a lockup. The folks at Touge love VTEC and yes it is a Honda invention. Google "the father of vtec - the temple of vtec asia", great article. Also EG6's are great cars, this one isn't the best example. UA-cam the "EG6 Surprise" to see some random USA kid's car kill the other cars they were racing that day. Not to mention the efforts of Spoon, Mugen, etc.
I wonder where that car is now
Weight transfer to the front tires. Left foot braking is what it's called.
It helps defeat understeer...Especially if the understeering car is in FF layout. It's a common FF tactic...right up there with using the E-brake to "rotate" the car a little.
Also works well for RWD cars with inherent tendencies to oversteer IMHO...Though mashing the gas pedal also defeats understeer in FRs ;)
sun must have glared in his eyes
Orido is a pro so im sure he knows all about when he should brake. Since he is a pro he expects the car to perform as such but it doesnt because its not set up right therefore there is a crash. If you wach the clip carefully (foot camera) at 2:46 he does try lifting off 2 times but the car still goes off. Much easier said than done. Cheers
@eaglewhitemall Yes. If you watch carefully you can see how he tries to pump the brakes but the pedal wouldnt return due to the "stuck" brakes.
I'm not real big on Honda's in general, but all I can say is that no matter how you set up a FF car, regardless of the manufacturer, under-steer will eventually force you off the track.
I don't think the problem here is Under-Steering as he was clearly Heel-Toe-Ing.Its more like that the EG6 didn't have ABS.Rumours say that when the EG6 was first release,ABS was Optional.
What happened to that EG? It looks like the brake is jam, as Orido had released the brake few times in the video, the car seem brake all the way, anyone can verify that?
@KuRo88 I know he has no ABS, but chances are, neither do the cars he races professionaly. I did some further research on this, and it seems that when too much line pressure reaches the front brakes, they will lock prematurely (too easily). The solution is to use an adjustable brake proportioning valve to reduce pressure to the front brakes (or rear as the case may be), or to use a larger brake master cylinder. Bigger front brakes on an ABS car can actually add to stopping distance. Thx.
@7m28 That comes from years of driving. He's done it all Drift , Le Mans, GT500 and touge
I met in a similar accident with my car a few years ago... except mine was on the road, and involved another vehicle. Did the guy from "Seeker" give any indication as to what caused it to tend to lock the fronts so easily?
Twice in one day with the same car is NOT driver error.
I like how this EG6 sounds.
I can only shake my head at such an irrational statement.
ダブルクラッシュと行こうぜ
You think they put a built B16B in that thing without doing the suspension? When they scroll through the specs you see it says F20, R18 between a bunch of Japanese. That says 20kg/mm front and 18kg/mm rear (just to give you an idea of how serious that suspension setup is).
@240BHPB18CEG your point is valid. although i dont think speed have to do anything with brake locking up. there have to be something that cause it to locked up.
omg does anyone pay attention to the driver's hand when they show the cockpit view? look at the drift king's hands at 1:28. oh my fucking god, he has such quick reaction and quick countersteering. its like watching it in fast forward. man, i wish i could counter steer like he does.
Hey Guys.Pay attention at 5:28.
Orido turn the steering,But the wheel didn't.
You're right, but it takes guts to go downhill with a FF without ABS, remember you turn and accelerate with the front wheels...
nah the problem was the brakes. i dont speak japanese but my guess is that the brakes lock up too easily. he was driving the car at its absolute limit and pushed it just a little too far. thats what we have abs braking systems for. but a properly set up braking system combined with a talented and experienced driver eliminates the need for abs. this is probably a tuning issue.
VTEC is Good and its really genious system...and im not even a Honda Fanboy... i drive a M3... clear ur eyes and look again the brakes locked up....
FF always require alot of skills to utilize properly. Simply to many variables to take into account when racing. The tire wear, traction and pressure of the front tires, etc.
i dont think its the driver issue. i think the guy didnt upgrade his drum brake on the rear wheel. this happen to be before when i was going fast repeatedly slam my brakes and the drum brake would lock up by itself. i think that could be the cause.
when you watch his 2nd crash you can see he left off and on and still hear the tired slide and the car didnt turn
Orido is very skilled in handling FF's, as shown in his videos driving Spoon's Civics and Integras. It's just that the Seeker EG6's handling is so crappy
Unfortunately this is like the first time i saw orido and obviously this was a bad video to show what orido is all about. He's my second favorite driver now after i seen more videos of him. He is AMAZING!
He was just going a few mph too fast for that corner.. The road conditions were probably bad (leaves and dust) and caused oversteer when he was continuing out of the corner.
You sound like a true honda/Touge expert.
orido thought he was dead u could hear the fear in his voice on the 2nd crash
@BlueRice mate EG6 has factory front and reart disc brakes ...
@likess Orido is a good driver, I guess he knows what he was doing.
@001Rupes well, im pretty sure he races cars with no abs.
but a racedriver usually knows his car. plus orido drives RWD cars usually. could be a cars fault, but doesnt have to.
nice that keichi just laughed at orido while witnessing him crash..
an ff's one weakness. UNDERSTEER
FWD = Understeer
good drivers can have bad days but that was an awful day.
the sun really was in his eyes...
@lucasracing i think he crashed cause he missjudged the left corner just before ... . he cut the corner left front wheel was in the grass lost traction and was going to fast to save it he locked up because he knew he was going in the trees .. nothing wrong with the setup just a bad judgement call from a brilliant driver
Watch Orido's drift skill with Toyota Altezza(Old Lexus IS300)...
You will respect him and obey him...
@BlueRice this is why i tell people who race with civic upgrade their drum brakes. also not only that incident happen to me but learn another hard way.. drill slotted brakes also helps too. when you do a short race all the time on freeway which you shouldnt even street race, the regular brakes get hot and it wouldnt stop that good. my car hit the rail spun out but the car was ok just scatch and dents. i guess eveything need to be upgrade for safety not just performance
He must have been really having a off day. 2 Crashes in 1 car.
@TakumiFuji01 Does that change the fact he couldn't even keep pace? I don't think so.
looks like the steering shaft snapped on the second run
I wonder how the tires locked even when Orido pumped the brakes..
They must have slightly off brake balance between the front sides, or its too high in the front so it has high pressure air under it. I've seen orido drive on the edge in an EG6 against the other guy in an impreza and kept up. Its a mistake in the car if its safe to drive at a speed except under braking.
there comes a point in tuning when a power level is increased..Abs braking should remain untouched...but clearly they didnt get it.
There's something wrong with the civic. Pay attention of how Orido turn the steering wheel 5:28 before it crash and the front wheels of the car.(not turning) 5:19
Depends on if you're used to it or not.
Bad day at the office for Orido san....
@001Rupes well, no abs.
he locked his front wheels, so he has no chance to turn.
Orido like what the fuck happened to me? Seriously? So cute lol
that went straight over your head
lol the wheels still lock after releasing the brake several times, he also turn the steering wheel but the tires didnt turn.definitely not the drivers error
yeah, right? the first time it looked like Orido's mistake for not letting go off the brakes, but the second it was obvious that the brakes locked as soon as he touched them, yeah?
(I'm not sure myself, that's why i'm asking)
bolt holding the steering wheel probably isnt tighten..he turns the wheel but the car isnt turning
Did Keiichi say "Peek-a-boo." at the beginning?
he missed the brake pedal and therefore had to stomp on it locking the brakes up because he already is doing late breaking
@BlueRice there're a lot of factors however when theres a tuned up car like this then it comes to the driver. I never thought Orido is a bad driver and in fact, he is a professional, but just no on FF cars. I never seen Tsuchiya had these sort of problems yet. He locked up his brakes mostly because he doesnt clearly know what speed that civic is capable to do in that corner, therefore, wrong brake point.
@120mphmoto the most you can find out in this without watching the actual dvd is a sector time. and the rx7 obviously won since the civic couldnt even make it half way down.
That rx7 is beautiful
I agree with you ;) civic stock lights looks way better and clean...
They should invest in a tow hook for that EG6...
haha... so this was the first time! i haven't seen this one so i was searching! he posted pics about crashing an amuse nissan z some weeks back and so many comments said he did it again so i had to find this!
Not a fan of the ebay'ish lights or bodykit on the eg.. But the rest is simply awesome!
lol at orido putting up the hand break after crashing the 2nd time
This video shows you that not having abs is dangerous.
That's purely a driving mistake (Orido's still good, shit happens). He shouldn't have braked, but just lifted off instead. Avoid braking when you feel you're overspeeding is very difficult : you will generally react by wanting to slow down quickly, and it is very difficult to overcome this. I nearly did something similar a few weeks ago, but had just the right margin to stop before hitting something. When I was stopped, I realised I could have passed the corner if I just let the car go in.
He said it was the car.
@gunluvS14 agree with that it's a funny situation! I guess orido pushed the car a bit to hard but still he's a good racer!
ehhhh... just looked like a simple understeer from inertia. Brakes didn't locked up since u can hear separate squeals according to steps on the brake - if it locked up, you'd hear a single long squeal. He braked too hard which accumulated inertia to the front tires which you could notice at 2:47 (footwork & steering), he already lost it when he first braked. Technically, could be caused by many things, but sometimes pro drivers also made mistakes, as long as the owner say - No problem, it's OK.
↓ミスりました。
ブレーキをロックから立て直す為にブレーキから足を離してるときあるのに、それでもロックしてしまうのか
@ 2:23 tsuchiya sounds worried about what happend to Orido. then when they get to him he just laughs at him. lmao
Because the brakes locked up and then the wheels don't spin, thus he can't steer it.
Shingo cries......
Faulty brakes,,,it understeers because the brakes are locking instantly, its not driver's fault..
It looks like the steering lock...? Can expert explain?
Front Wheels Drive with no ABS is suicidal.
ネタバレしますと、特集号でもやってたんですけど織戸選手がブレーキを踏みそびれたからですよwww
１回目はブレーキとアクセルが同時、２回目はブレーキペダルから完全に足が滑って焦って踏み直してます
EGってそんなにアクセルとブレーキの間隔が狭いんですか？
Abs locked the front wheel !
I think his crash was better than your scenario. If he had kept straight, he would have for sure hit a tree and severely damaged at least the front suspension.
front weels too wide, but tail lights caused the crash
This match will be legendary if DoriDori drove the eg.