OCSS-050 Dorade Boxes are Leaky Trash - Mini-Cruiser Sailboat Build
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- Опубліковано 3 бер 2023
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In this episode I install dividing panels for the compartments between frames C4.5 and C5 (the main bulkhead). At the same time I work on the ventilation system for the boat. By placing the vent in the cabin lower down, I ensure that water can’t free flow from outside to inside no matter what position the boat is in, sideways, upside down, etc. I also design the ventilation channels to have a U bend so that water is trapped and exits through a small drain in the system.
THE BOAT: Scow Bow Mini-Cruiser. 14’ long (4.25M,) with a 6’ beam (1.8M.) She features twin keels and a ljungström rig. Every design decision is made to keep her simple, strong, and watertight.
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Opening music produced by Yosef Flumeri.
Rhodesia by Twin Musicom is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution 4.0 license. creativecommons.org/licenses/... Artist: www.twinmusicom.org/
Closing music Playback by Power Glove, remixed by Perry.
Mini-cruiser, Micro-cruiser, Pocket Cruiser, scow bow, twin keel, PVC foam core, garage DIY boat build, boatbuilding, Ljungstrom rig, San Diego California, #minicruiser #boatbuilding #boatrestoration #refit #sailboat #boat #sailing #solosailing #pocketcruiser #dinghysailing #sandiego
This is an Algorithm Booster! ⛵
Holy cow SY himself is commenting on your video. I guess all of us amateurs making comments about your ventilation system can wait and see what the master says.
Here for a second watch and to bump up the algorithm. Have a great week Captain Perry.
Also think about how to clean them from time to time. In a house the fan/air system can get dirty fast, but on see...
Best way for pipes, suck a thin thread through, and then connect a bigger one with some towels cleaning stuff, and then back and fort... Same as wiring through cable canals....
Happy to see you using the metric system in spite of being in San Diego.
Thanks, I like it better. This is my first project where I'm trying to mainly use it.
Looking great there. I love sven quotes, "Maintain ( respect) the bubble".
Hi Perry.
If you can
Extend the 50 mm PVC pipe to the other side of the boat just below the deck.
That way air entering the ventilation is high up opposite side entering the cabin low down on other side.
In and out is diagonal
In a storm there is a lot of movement
It is good to have as much margin as possible.
👍Thank you.
I've been building model airplanes since the seventies here is a trick. To spreading fiberglass or resin use a deck of poker cards plastic coated. Use a single card like a squeegee once it starts getting soaked. Or not usable throw it away. Grab another card and you have 52 cards as Squeegees.. They are a lot cheaper than brushes. Try it you'll like it.
I like this tip! Thanks!
Nice one! Thanks.
I agree your box system looks like the perfect solution as I see it anyway
Besides water intrusion from spray or inversion, the other consideration for ventilation design is, of course, air flow. You may want to discuss how you know that your design will give adequate air exchange with closed hatches. As one increases the "tortuous path" for water, the air flow decreases also. Nice video.
This is even more critical once you reach the tropics ,air flow ( large volume) is critical to avoid condensation. Condensation in a warm cabin can be unbelievable and a far far greater issue than a dripping dorade vent
He could easily add another 3-4cm to the ventilation output and add a fan to it. In this size they consume from 5-10W. But the sun should be no issue in tropical conditions. (As PC parts they around 5-10€, and easy to get and small/light to store some of them.)
I will be anxious to hear your review of your exhaust vent system after the fact. I predict that it will be ineffective in all but Gail force winds because of the small 2" diameter and numerous 90 degree fittings. An HVAC guy could show you flow charts.
THat was my concern too
I guess we'll see and adjust if necessary. I'll make sure to report on how everything works once we get to sea trials.
From my experience of living on a narrowboat in the UK, that tiny little vent hole out onto the rear deck will get blocked in no time... you'll get slime mould, or lichen or something living in it which will not only block it, but possibly pollute your interior air too...
This one is very easy to access for cleaning.
Routine cleaning with a dose of bleach
What a great idea, very good episode ⛵⛵⛵
Nice video it's coming very nicely 👍
Add small computer fans in the boxes to really help with the ventilation
My concern would be they'd rust up and die quickly in such an environment.
@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat At 3 dollars or so a piece if they last for 6 months or so it would be worth it, especially on those nights when the cabin is warm and there’s no wind to move the boat. Probably could find a ruggedized version if you looked long enough also
It gonna be very well design and made mini cruiser. 👍
Awesome!
To get better airflow I installed very small, cheap 12v computer fans into the system. I bought some that have great airflow, are almost silent, they draw very little current and if they stop working (which I'm sure they will!) I can easily replace them.
That's cool. However I want to keep things simple and avoid wiring up fans like that. Maybe after some time in the doldrums near the equator I'll change my mind 😉.
Longer video! Nice! Excellent progress! Soon: wire installation!
Thanks 👍 I'm looking forward to it.
Awesome work! Love the methodical approach to it!
Thanks Eric! 🍾
Are the plans available
Uhh,,, you should make that drain hole oversized ,fill with thickened epoxy, and drill through the epoxy. That way no moisture can get at the exposed foam. Ohh those vent holes should be slightly hogged out and filled! No exposed foam or wood!!
Thanks for the concern, but there's no exposed foam on my boat. Also, this is PVC closed cell foam which does not absorb water. Check out a lot of my earlier videos to see the different ways I cover foam edges.
Hello Perry🙋♂️I've always wondered what could be done to keep dry when capsized 🤷♂️some sort of check valve maybe. Anyways , she looks great with some stowage as well👍stay safe and healthy 🙏well wishes from rainy Cape Cod😁
Dorade boxes should have internal baffles and screw shut caps on the inside. The ones i made for my boat were fine, they only leaked when the boat was inverted and i never shut the vents, my fault, not a design flaw.
If you're already building an unstayed mast, which is a good idea, you should also use a junk rig.
Cool
What is your experience with Dorade boxes offshore? I haven't seen the problems you attest to. They're not perfect, and they can be improved, but they do work well. I'll be surprised if you get very much air flow down that long series of tubes you designed.
Use PVC in-house vacuum cleaner tube & fittings, it's schdule 20 thin wall.
My only concern with your dorade system is the water outlets seem too small espectially the aft one, you get solid water over the deck and the U bend will take minutes to drain might not be empty before you get the next wave of solid water over the deck meaning your ventilation might be blocked for hours, which would be less than ideal.
I can't imagine why it would take "minutes" to drain. The system doesn't have enough space to hold so much water that it would take more than some seconds to drain. We can certainly do a test once it's built. If there is so much water coming over the deck, I could replace the intake cowl with a cap until things calmed down, or at least turn the cowl away from wind/wave direction.
Respect for your project and dedication..... however your comments on Dorade vent covers are uncalled for ...as the dorade is a beautiful, somewhat effective design compared to the alternatives available in another century, usually on much larger hulls with efficiencyof scale. Of course, your's is a special purpose design utilizing 21st century materials and knowledge. This is like, for purposes of discussion, Elon Musk calling Ford's model T trash cause it leaked like a sieve. Kinda like this is gratuitous click baiting. Dorado critics have been over this area long ago.
Keep on keeping on. Love your projects and intend to copt some of your ventilation ideas.
All dorade boxes I have seen have a water tight shut off inside of the boat, when you are in a situation where water may come in you close them off especially in heavy seas
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Check out the T-shirt’s here: bonfire.com/ocean-capable-small-sailboat-1
Where would you place the 4 12” grab bars? Let me know in the comments please!
you will take water on a 90 degree flip, box on star and inlet on port
Both deck inlets should be above the waterline when the boat is on either side.
When you drilled the holes for the drains and gratings, did you route out the areas, between the sides, and fill with thickened epoxy, to prevent any moisture from seeping into the bulkheads? I don't know if you skipped filming that step.
Also, how many coats of lacquer/varnish/poly coatings are going on the metal grills, to keep them completely sealed?
Excellent video, and thank you for sharing!
The holes got epoxy painted on, so there is a waterproof skin over the foam. This PVC foam is also closed cell, it does not absorb water.
The vent covers are stainless steel. Even if they do rust, they are very easy to replace. It's more of a decorative touch so I don't have to look at a round hole.
Looking good Captain Perry! I wondered how you were going to handle ventilation aside from the hatch. Will anything else open up, or will this essentially be it?
I plan to have the 2 vents, and the main hatch. I've toyed with the idea of an aft facing port on the main bulkhead that could open over the aft deck for more air when it's hot and still out. But, I'm not sure yet, each opening port is an added expense and potential leak.
Nice Job! Wasn't clear to me if you were going to have a way to close off the top side intake and exhaust vents?
Since it is standard PVC it will be very easy to slide off the cowl and place a PVC cap on top.
Trust me on this, a 2 inch vent will not cut it. Especially if for some reason you have to stay buttoned up for a couple of days due to weather conditions or very rough seas.
After a couple of days the condensation build up will make the interior very soggy indeed.
Just a observation from personal experience.
2 inch is more than enough. It is plenty.
I use 1 and a 1/4
On my lates boat I was one time out 78 days inkluding high latitudes north of Fareo Island and close to Iceland wery foggy.
Just an observation from personal experience
I hate to be a naysayer, but I agree with this comment completely. I am afraid you are going to end up with not much air to breathe when you’re buttoned up. It is a weird compromise of variables to problem solve around. A small electric fan in either of the ducts will do the trick, but it doesn’t exactly follow your philosophy of KIS.
2" is a much greater diameter than my nostrils.
Also, I think a computer fan is unnecessary and will break down quickly in this environment.
@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat Don't see the nostrils analogy at all. Your nostrils are not over 1m long with multiple 90 degree bends.
@@steveburke7675 The flow in a pipe increases with the forth power of the diameter.
If the diameter of his nostrils is 10 mm and the pipe is 50 the increase by the larger diameter will be 600 times. Thats compensates well for the longer distances
Maybe the classic dorade box is more efficient regarding the ventilation performance?
If you want awesome airflow, you open a big hatch, but it's terrible for keeping water out. A classic dorade box is there let in air and keep water out, and it sucks at the job. This system in the video allows for airflow with no water leaks.
A good video but I do worry about the longevity of those vents as they look like cheap stainless. Some fine salt spray will make it past the u bend.
They are easy to replace, if needed. A tight fit and 2 screws hold them in. They are more decorative than anything.
So how many have you built?
What are the vent cap for? Do you really need them? I would feel more urge to add some mesh in the part outside the boat to prevent insects from moving their house into these boxes
I think the vent cap is just to make him feel nice.
It just reduces the flow.
The metal vents are more decorative than anything. They will be easy to remove/replace.
Reynolds’s number. Too much restriction to airflow
Your ventis above the waterline when level but will it still be when you are heeled?
Luckily the boat is small so the waterline isn't so deep. I've placed the interior vents so that they are above the waterline no matter what angle the boat is turned.
@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat I think I worded my question poorly. Will the drain line be above water when the boat is heeled? The reason I ask is because on my sailboat, the galley sink is well above the waterline and about 2' off centerline on an 11' beam but when sailing with a 20º heel, seawater will come up the drain and overfill the sink, spilling water onto the counter which then goes all over the galley floor and to the bilge. I need to close the thru-hull when sailing on starboard tack.
Interesting. I remember on my sailboat I'd occasionally have water come into the sink on a heel, but never overflow. This drain will definitely be in the water when the boat is on a port tack. I want to put a rubber flapper on the hull side, hopefully that would stop any water from getting in all the way to the cabin vent.
Just keep in mind below waterline is when boat is in upright position, but maybe not when at heel during normal sailing, let alone something closer to or actual inversion …
I had trouble explaining it, but my point was that if you turn the boat to any degree, even inverted, the vent into the cabin will be above the waterline. This is accomplished by placing the vent closer to the middle of the frame.
@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat For the front, the exit on deck and the intake in the cabin might never be under water at the same time but with let say at 90 deg of heel angle the drain (on side) and the cabin intake and the small drain will be under water at the same time => flooding. Moving the drain pipe closer to the center line would solve that but then it is under the DWL... maybe running the drain to the opposite side?
I was thinking about that too. But 2 points make me feel ok about it. 1. The beam is smaller up at frame 2 in the bow, and the center of gravity is back between frames 4 and 5, so if the boat is on its side the vent into the cabin should still be well above waterline. And 2. Boats get knocked down at sea and sometimes even roll over completely, but they don't usually stay in one of those positions for more than a few seconds, unless she's very poorly designed.
All duly noted, and agree likelihood may be low, but severity is high, therefore still a risk to be evaluated. Further, most vessels crossing oceans are quite a bit larger, and therefore more likely to be more inherintly unstable (assuming all appendages including Kiel/ballast weight and rigging remain intact; excluding multihulls), however, very few have sufficiently engineered topside surfaces to ensure they will always roll through back to upright. At this point though a small hole is likely least of your concerns 😜
@@ocean_capable_small_sailboat I agree with point one and it could be easy to check doing a quick hydrostatic flotation. For second point I agree in theory... in practice a 90 deg even if the boat comes back the sail and mast can be full of water making the movement potentially slow. One easier potential fix could be to apply a square of X-ray film or similar material on the outside, glued on the top edge, water inside would push the film and exit (always a bit remaining but limited if film is thin enough) and if pressure from the outside the 4 edges are pushed to the surrounding of the hull creating a low tech non return valve. It is used for through hull under dynamic WL on race boats not for the non return valve aspect (they have real valves) but for hydrodynamic benefits.
Funny, I’ve never experienced the negatives you mention in the traditional dorade. Having said that I don’t plan on getting inverted.
They have seal covers for a reason
Other commenters have addressed this but, you will not have much airflow through your system.
People assume that, but I'd bet none of them have tried it. And according to the man who has, it worked very well.
Perry, I sent you a little surprise.
Thank you very much!