You’ve made your points well, Tom. It really does take a lot of time for the typical DIY’er to work with stand-alone tools, especially if they are working in a shared space like a garage. Great update.
Tom, from one Shopsmith evangelist to another, thanks for another great video; I only wish your videos had been available when I was touring the country demonstrating and selling the Mark 5. One suggestion (and perhaps you covered this in another video): for the professional carpenter, cabinet guy, or furniture repair specialist the Shopsmith has another great advantage: portability. (See Scott Markwood’s video on how to easily load a Shopsmith into a pickup or van) As a Shopsmith demonstrator, my wife, Susan, who is 5’4” and weighs 110 lbs loaded a Mark 5 into a van 100’s of times-by herself. She also loaded a Dust Collector, Bandsaw, Jointer, Belt Sander, etc,etc. which means as a professional, you could have an entire shop at your fingertips-imagine trying that with separate tools! And guys and gals, if you ever plan to move…well you get the idea. Thanks again for all you do for the Shopsmith community.
I’m a hobbyist at woodworking projects and my Mark V 510 fits the bill so far. I have space for other stand-alone tools but never could justify the expense of some of them. I did splurge on a DeWalt planer since I don’t own the Shopsmith attachment. Nothing I do is on a timeline or quick turnaround, so I kind of enjoy the reconfiguring process. Enjoy watching your builds and videos.
I cannot comment on other tools because As an accidental new wood worker( I use my 95 year old father in law's Mark 510 ) I have only used Shopsmith. With my new dust collector wood working life at home is wife approved. Great vid squire!
"A very good tool for a decent price." Exactly. I am not a Shopsmith user, though I've always been intrigued by the concept. Thus, I enjoy your videos. I had a 16'x23' space in my basement that suited a workshop base perfectly, so I gathered stand-alone tool one at a time as projects required. Over the years, for approximately $3,500 plus a bunch of metal tool-drawer cabinets (and a purpose built workbench top with vises), I now have quite a complete set of stationary power tools. I like being able to move directly from one to another but, make no mistake, each operation on each tool takes some sort of "setup" regardless. Never put down Shopsmiths or their users. They are ideal for a small space, and are remarkably well-designed and crafted pieces of machinery in their own right, and do a number of operations accurately and well. Emphasize my admiration for the engineering that goes into accomplishing that!
Great point, expending the money over time is an advantage over the "big-bang" cost of a new Shopsmith. Makes the cost of entry to woodworking a bit more manageable. I picked up my first Shopsmith (include ebaying some missing parts) in the used market for about $400 which included a band saw and a jointer. That made the cost of entry for me very managable.
I always appreciate how thorough you are in your presentations and how you are openly willing to be corrected if that comes up. Regarding the complaint someone had regarding having to add a bandsaw and figure that in, that would be the case for stand alone tools as well and my experience tells me there are no 11" bandsaws that compare well with SS, especially when you consider the power of the motor and the use of variable speed, something very few if any other bandsaws feature. While I officially have a Mark V, I like to consider it a Mark 12 because I have 7 SPTs ready to hitch a ride on the Mark V chassis. Being using SS since 1974. Blessings, Glen
I bought my 510 3 weeks ago. I have been slowly bringing it back to life, it is a true barn find but under all the dirt is a gem. I'm a retired mechanic and I'm pretty impressed with how the SS is built. I like it. Yes, it does take some time to figure it out, tool changes take a bit of time and you want to think things out before you change configuration but for what it does and the amount of room it takes up, it will work just fine for me. My biggest problem is parts. I'm in Canada. Contacted SS about some parts and they directed me to a guy in Canada who doesn't seem to want to respond to my queries. If I don't get a response soon it will be going back on marketplace. I have a 30 year old machine that needs stuff, a company with a website that shows me all the parts I need are there but no way to access. Definitely a deal breaker. I give the ShopSmith and "A" for a great idea and a decent machine. I give the company an "F" for support outside of the US. Sorry☹
I hope you get the supply chain worked out. Here in the states there are many things sold in Europe and Canada that are not available,so I know the feeling of almost being able to “taste” it.
@@woodshopnerdery I have bought many, many things out of the states before with zero issues. I may have to pay duty on some of them and sometimes the freight cost can almost scare you off, but after the response I got from the mothership, we will see how it plays out. And FY!, Ebay is a joke. Overpriced if I can find what I want and shipping will be more then the cost of the part so they are out too. Really too bad. I have wanted a SS since the 80's when I saw one at a local home show but 3 kids and a mortgage ruled it out.
Tom… I think it’s time for you to holler, “BINGO”. Or “YAHTZEE”. Because it is clearly ‘GAME OVER’ for the Shopsmith uninitiated! I appreciate you addressing this. For nearly thirty five years I have withstood the slings and arrows of popular belief… that using a Shopsmith would only and most assuredly result in injury, inferior work, lost time and perhaps even revocation of my Man Card. I learned early on to offer them the chance to come to my shop and prove their point. Only one guy took me up on the challenge… the remainder blew off the idea. So, it isn’t a surprise to me that you have only heard a chorus of ‘Crickets’. Now, it’s time to open the window, listen to the chorus and take a well deserved nap!
Always enjoy your videos! The one option the haters never mention, is If you watch the want ads very closely, You can pick up a shopsmith really cheap every now and then. If you are so determined to have your stand alone tools then you can put it on a Shop Deputy stand and have several for your most used tools and then you have the quality of a Shopsmith and your stand alone tools too! Thanks for the Great videos!
Hey Tom, another good video. I wish I had a Shopsmith. I have been building a hang on the wall coat rack for my church and I wanted to use oak dowels as the pegs. But I realized I should have drilled the holes for the pegs before I built it. I wanted to drill the holes on an angle but I don’t think there’s any way for me to keep it steady while I drill. If I had the Shopsmith I could use the tilling table and the horizontal boring feature. Oh well, I will figure something out lol. You really have me wondering about your upcoming announcement. Keep up the good work. If I ever get a Shopsmith I will need plenty of help lol.
I would never give up my m7. The haters are just incompetent. The machine is so adaptable I have fitted mine with an arrangement to grind slabs of rock into cabachons for jewelry. I appreciate the defense.
I'm not surprised that the haters disappeared - that's typical behavior when you call them out. I'll probably never have a ShopSmith, but it's very intriguing and a very cleverly designed system. I've enjoyed watching your videos, and you've done a great job of explaining your points.
@@jamespowell7196 I live in CA. If I were to get one, then I would have to get rid of a lot of existing tools to make room for it. I work in a smaller garage so space is an issue.
@@Erik_The_Viking I understand. Recently, I visited my daughter who lives in LA...space is definitely an issue! But then, that's exactly one benefit to the Shopsmith-5 tools in one. jim
Nice Job Tom, your lack of response from those who criticize Shopsmith doesn’t really surprise me. It is difficult to mount a convincing fact base argument against the machine on a level playing field such as you provided. For many woodworkers such as myself the Shopsmith just makes sense.
Spot on about being tied to shopsmith for all your tools. Its great to have the five or seven fubctions but i want a stand alone planer, a scroll saw, a router tabe etc. Not that shopsmith dies not make them its i dont want to lift those things on and off . I put screw in inserts in my work bench and just tighten down the tool im using.
Great job Tom. I thought I’d share an experience I recently had. I was speaking to a fellow woodworker about a project he was interested in that I had made. He loved the photos of the Ben Franklin chair I built for my daughter. I never mentioned the tools I use until he asked me to join him at the local woodworkers guild to perhaps talk about the build. When I told him I was a Shop Smith owner he wrinkled his nose rescinded the offer and changed the subject! This was almost personal with this guy. I just don’t get it?
OK, I’ve come up with a list I’m willing to share. Before I divulge that list, I would like to make a few points to put it in perspective. First, I don’t think I qualify as a Shopsmith hater because I actually own a Shopsmith (along with a bunch of other stand-alone power tools). I have been woodworking for about 40+ years, and about 15 years ago I bought a second-hand model 500. Since then I have upgraded it to a model 520, replaced the headstock with a Powerpro, bought accessories like the lift-assist, universal tool rest, cross-cut table, double-tilt upgrade, and others (but no SPTs). My second point would be that I think the question you are trying to answer, the cost to duplicate the Shopsmith functions with stand-alone tools, is an interesting theoretical one but not really practical. I prefer to answer the question, if I was starting out in woodworking and had $5K to spend, should I buy the Mark 7 or is there a better way to spend $5K, or do I even need to spend that much. I think this is more the buyer’s perspective. This leads me to drop two items from the list. First, I would omit the lathe. Even though I am an avid woodturner now, I did woodworking for 25 years before I even touched a lathe. Wood turning is a specialty part of the hobby, and you can build that coffee table, bookcase, dining room table, deck, kitchen cabinets, desk, etc., without needing a lathe. Plus, once you start woodturning you’ll need a bench grinder, bandsaw, a lot of turning tools, chucks, woodturning classes, and more, so someone starting out should probably put off buying a lathe. The second item I would drop is the horizontal boring machine. As you noted in your video, these are uncommon, suggesting very few woodworkers have them. The only times I have used this function on my Shopsmith was to drill holes for dowels. However, now I have a doweling jig that I prefer to use because I find it more accurate. So finally here is my list. I actually have two lists, one at the lower end of prices and one at the high end: Table saw: Low end: Grizzly G0870 10" 2 HP Portable Table Saw with Roller Stand - $650 or (high end) Grizzly G0771Z - 10" 2 HP 120V Hybrid Table Saw with T-Shaped Fence - $1165 Drill press: Typical 12” benchtop ($500) or if you want variable speed, check out the Nova Viking 16" Benchtop DVR 1 HP Drill Press - $1200 Disk sander: I don’t see any real need for a disc sander to have variable speed; the Bauer (harbor freight) 12 in. 1.25 hp sander would work fine ($200), but I would actually prefer the Ridgid Oscillating Edge Belt/Spindle Sander - $329 For routing, you could get something like the Kreg router table ($250). I’m not including a router, and here’s why: even if you get the shopsmith, you will still need a hand held router for pieces too big to lift onto a router table. So that’s a wash in the comparison. Finally, just for fun, I’ll include the Jessem doweling jig ($125). Add it up and you get $1725 at the low end and $3070 at the high end. Compare to the Shopsmith you save at least $2K. With than money you could buy a bandsaw, jointer and planer. So is there any justification for buying a Shopsmith? Yes; one, the tool is very well made and can last a lifetime; two is that it is very versatile, for example I use mine for running my buffing and polishing wheels; three of course is the space argument, and four, it’s a fifty gizmo to play with.
Of course, each individual should decide which tools fit their woodworking goals, time, money, and space the best. This will lead different people in different directions. And of course, if you don't want a lathe or horizontal boring machine, you shouldn't buy them. And yes you do come up with a cheaper list. Unfortunately, these are not better tools. You could also come up with better tools, but I doubt very much these would be cheaper. In my opinion, there are several aspects of your list that prove my point. 1. I disagree. This is not a theoretical exercise, it is a very practical comparison. In the 9 years I have owned Shopsmith equipment, I have used all 5 and later 7 functions on many projects. If I didn't have access to those tools I would have bared the expense of purchasing alternatives. Those expenses can't be disregarded. 2. To get your final price tag low enough, you had to drop two major tools from the list. By that logic, you could eliminate the table saw and use a hand saw or eliminate the drill press and use a $20 corded hand drill. That is certainly cheaper but I don't buy the argument that having no tool or only having a minimally viable tool is better than having a good tool. 3. The bench top Nova Viking is nice, but you'll need the floor model to more closely match the capacities of the Shopsmith. But, no a 12 inch benchtop drill press with 1/3 HP motor is just no comparison to the 16.5 inch 2 HP Shopsmith with digital speed control. 4. You might get away without having variable speed on a disc sander, but it's not a better option. That Bauer sander spins at 1725 RPM, because that is the native speed of the induction motor running on 60 Hz USA electricity, not because it's a wonderful speed for sanding. Variable speed is very useful for sanding, so is a large table with a quality miter gauge, and so the ability to easily change grits. I use all of these features to great effect in my projects. But, I do like the Rigid sander and wish I had room for one in addition to my existing tools. 5. The Horizontal Boring feature is very valuable and is a feature that I use as much or more than I use the Drill press. A good rule of thumb is that the widest part of the workpiece should be registered against the table. So if you're standing a piece on end or on its side then that's one of the situations where good results will be more easily achieved horizontally. 6. Yes, in some situations tools need to be brought to the workpiece and I do own a handheld router, circular saw, drill, etc. in addition to my Shopsmith. Also, I agree that a separate router table will be necessary for some people since Shopsmith can cover some but not all routing needs. In a previous video, I suggested a Bosch Router/Table combo for $330 for those people. But I don't think people will constantly uninstall and re-install the router from the table. Especially people who don't like the Shopsmith tool changeover. They will buy two routers. 7. No, I would not suggest a beginner speed $5,000 on a Shopsmith to get started. Nor would I suggest a beginner spend $3,000 on your tool list to get started. What I would tell a beginner is to focus on developing new skills with the tools they already own and focus on building projects which make use of those skills. For me, I started with a used $400 Shopsmith Mark 5 510, including bandsaw and jointer. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that others consider a used Shopsmith as an option as well.
Tom, Right On. When it comes to trashing a product vs. supporting a product, its like night and day. Thanks for the update. And you are too young to be forgetful. LOL just kiddin' I do it all the time. Oh I'm old.
I’m thinking enough about the Shopsmith hater’s. I bought a used Mark 520 because of the John Malarkey video. That’s a great job on the danish cord I want to see a video on how you do that 😊. Great video by the way enjoy them all.
I have 17 cabinets and 34 cabinet doors in my home built with my Shopsmith. But that was before my UA-cam days. How ever this video shows a lot of similar processes. ua-cam.com/video/b_VpJXjTvsA/v-deo.html
I see complete used units for 500 bucks, every now and then. Once I get my garage set up I will buy one. Dad has a 70s version and grandad had either a 10 or 10er. Just as a drill press, side borer, lathe and overhead router it's worth 500 to me. I prefer my 80s craftsman table saw but that's just me.
I would have really been surprised at any lists or comebacks. The unqualified arguments were both addressed and destroyed. I would have been even more surprised if John Malecky would have responded to Scott. If you're confident someone has a loosing hand, always call their bluff. Both you guys did well, but you took it to a level where the haters really couldn't use simple rhetoric. Glad to see the chair at this stage.
You stuck your neck out and the knives never showed! There are some who might say, “I’ll show how the Shopsmith…”, but very few do. You did one hellofa good job. Good on yuh!
I sent you list comparing new tools to shopsmith including jointer, table saw, bandsaw, sander and lathe, so do not say nobody responded, I took 5 minutes to come up with list but could have done even better if I had the time to do more research. So now you are changing your challenge as you had originally included the jointer and the bandsaw, but now its only about the stand alone shopsmith so you still have to go and buy other tools, not what your original argument was about or what John Maleki's video was about either. Its up to you what you choose to use but I have both and use my shopsmith a couple times a month for rough turning odd shaped items so if it breaks no big deal, I honestly think everyone should use what they like and feel comfortable with. Not a hater just not a huge fanboy and would never buy one new.
You’ve made your points well, Tom. It really does take a lot of time for the typical DIY’er to work with stand-alone tools, especially if they are working in a shared space like a garage. Great update.
Thanks Scott!
Tom, from one Shopsmith evangelist to another, thanks for another great video; I only wish your videos had been available when I was touring the country demonstrating and selling the Mark 5. One suggestion (and perhaps you covered this in another video): for the professional carpenter, cabinet guy, or furniture repair specialist the Shopsmith has another great advantage: portability. (See Scott Markwood’s video on how to easily load a Shopsmith into a pickup or van) As a Shopsmith demonstrator, my wife, Susan, who is 5’4” and weighs 110 lbs loaded a Mark 5 into a van 100’s of times-by herself.
She also loaded a Dust Collector, Bandsaw, Jointer, Belt Sander, etc,etc. which means as a professional, you could have an entire shop at your fingertips-imagine trying that with separate tools!
And guys and gals, if you ever plan to move…well you get the idea.
Thanks again for all you do for the Shopsmith community.
I’m a hobbyist at woodworking projects and my Mark V 510 fits the bill so far. I have space for other stand-alone tools but never could justify the expense of some of them. I did splurge on a DeWalt planer since I don’t own the Shopsmith attachment. Nothing I do is on a timeline or quick turnaround, so I kind of enjoy the reconfiguring process. Enjoy watching your builds and videos.
Thank you! The dewalt planers are really nice
I cannot comment on other tools because As an accidental new wood worker( I use my 95 year old father in law's Mark 510 ) I have only used Shopsmith. With my new dust collector wood working life at home is wife approved. Great vid squire!
Tom. Your channel is living up to its name!! Well done sir.
You go on with your bad self sir!!!
"A very good tool for a decent price." Exactly.
I am not a Shopsmith user, though I've always been intrigued by the concept. Thus, I enjoy your videos.
I had a 16'x23' space in my basement that suited a workshop base perfectly, so I gathered stand-alone tool one at a time as projects required. Over the years, for approximately $3,500 plus a bunch of metal tool-drawer cabinets (and a purpose built workbench top with vises), I now have quite a complete set of stationary power tools. I like being able to move directly from one to another but, make no mistake, each operation on each tool takes some sort of "setup" regardless.
Never put down Shopsmiths or their users. They are ideal for a small space, and are remarkably well-designed and crafted pieces of machinery in their own right, and do a number of operations accurately and well. Emphasize my admiration for the engineering that goes into accomplishing that!
Great point, expending the money over time is an advantage over the "big-bang" cost of a new Shopsmith. Makes the cost of entry to woodworking a bit more manageable. I picked up my first Shopsmith (include ebaying some missing parts) in the used market for about $400 which included a band saw and a jointer. That made the cost of entry for me very managable.
I always appreciate how thorough you are in your presentations and how you are openly willing to be corrected if that comes up. Regarding the complaint someone had regarding having to add a bandsaw and figure that in, that would be the case for stand alone tools as well and my experience tells me there are no 11" bandsaws that compare well with SS, especially when you consider the power of the motor and the use of variable speed, something very few if any other bandsaws feature. While I officially have a Mark V, I like to consider it a Mark 12 because I have 7 SPTs ready to hitch a ride on the Mark V chassis. Being using SS since 1974. Blessings, Glen
Thank Glen! You're right those bandsaws don't magically appear out of now where for anybody.
I bought my 510 3 weeks ago. I have been slowly bringing it back to life, it is a true barn find but under all the dirt is a gem. I'm a retired mechanic and I'm pretty impressed with how the SS is built.
I like it. Yes, it does take some time to figure it out, tool changes take a bit of time and you want to think things out before you change configuration but for what it does and the amount of room it takes up, it will work just fine for me.
My biggest problem is parts. I'm in Canada. Contacted SS about some parts and they directed me to a guy in Canada who doesn't seem to want to respond to my queries. If I don't get a response soon it will be going back on marketplace. I have a 30 year old machine that needs stuff, a company with a website that shows me all the parts I need are there but no way to access. Definitely a deal breaker.
I give the ShopSmith and "A" for a great idea and a decent machine. I give the company an "F" for support outside of the US.
Sorry☹
I hope you get the supply chain worked out. Here in the states there are many things sold in Europe and Canada that are not available,so I know the feeling of almost being able to “taste” it.
@@woodshopnerdery I have bought many, many things out of the states before with zero issues. I may have to pay duty on some of them and sometimes the freight cost can almost scare you off, but after the response I got from the mothership, we will see how it plays out.
And FY!, Ebay is a joke. Overpriced if I can find what I want and shipping will be more then the cost of the part so they are out too.
Really too bad. I have wanted a SS since the 80's when I saw one at a local home show but 3 kids and a mortgage ruled it out.
Tom… I think it’s time for you to holler, “BINGO”. Or “YAHTZEE”. Because it is clearly ‘GAME OVER’ for the Shopsmith uninitiated!
I appreciate you addressing this. For nearly thirty five years I have withstood the slings and arrows of popular belief… that using a Shopsmith would only and most assuredly result in injury, inferior work, lost time and perhaps even revocation of my Man Card.
I learned early on to offer them the chance to come to my shop and prove their point. Only one guy took me up on the challenge… the remainder blew off the idea.
So, it isn’t a surprise to me that you have only heard a chorus of ‘Crickets’. Now, it’s time to open the window, listen to the chorus and take a well deserved nap!
Thanks Dave. Yes, my thesis is complete.
Always enjoy your videos! The one option the haters never mention, is If you watch the want ads very closely, You can pick up a shopsmith really cheap every now and then. If you are so determined to have your stand alone tools then you can put it on a Shop Deputy stand and have several for your most used tools and then you have the quality of a Shopsmith and your stand alone tools too! Thanks for the Great videos!
Thanks Delbert, yes there are fantastic deals out there in the used market.
Hey Tom, another good video. I wish I had a Shopsmith. I have been building a hang on the wall coat rack for my church and I wanted to use oak dowels as the pegs. But I realized I should have drilled the holes for the pegs before I built it. I wanted to drill the holes on an angle but I don’t think there’s any way for me to keep it steady while I drill. If I had the Shopsmith I could use the tilling table and the horizontal boring feature. Oh well, I will figure something out lol. You really have me wondering about your upcoming announcement. Keep up the good work. If I ever get a Shopsmith I will need plenty of help lol.
Keep an eye on the used market. Good deals on a 510 or 520 model come up now and then. That's were I started.
I would never give up my m7. The haters are just incompetent. The machine is so adaptable I have fitted mine with an arrangement to grind slabs of rock into cabachons for jewelry. I appreciate the defense.
Thanks John!
I'm not surprised that the haters disappeared - that's typical behavior when you call them out. I'll probably never have a ShopSmith, but it's very intriguing and a very cleverly designed system. I've enjoyed watching your videos, and you've done a great job of explaining your points.
Thank you Erik!
Why do you think you'll never get a Shopsmith? There are plenty out there for a reasonable price. If you live in Ohio, I could help you find one...jim
@@jamespowell7196 I live in CA. If I were to get one, then I would have to get rid of a lot of existing tools to make room for it. I work in a smaller garage so space is an issue.
@@Erik_The_Viking I understand. Recently, I visited my daughter who lives in LA...space is definitely an issue! But then, that's exactly one benefit to the Shopsmith-5 tools in one. jim
Tom, great video! I really appreciate the depth you went into for this discussion.
Glad you enjoyed it!
Tom, excellent, as usual! Thank you 🤓
Glad you enjoyed it, John!
Nice Job Tom, your lack of response from those who criticize Shopsmith doesn’t really surprise me. It is difficult to mount a convincing fact base argument against the machine on a level playing field such as you provided. For many woodworkers such as myself the Shopsmith just makes sense.
Thanks James! Certainly Shopsmith is not a good fit for everybody. But to say it's not a good fit for anybody is where I have to push back.
Spot on about being tied to shopsmith for all your tools. Its great to have the five or seven fubctions but i want a stand alone planer, a scroll saw, a router tabe etc. Not that shopsmith dies not make them its i dont want to lift those things on and off . I put screw in inserts in my work bench and just tighten down the tool im using.
Exactly Sam! We actually have a tremendous amount of flexibility and choice.
Thanks Tom! Can’t wait for the day I buy my Mark 7!
Hope you enjoy it!
Great job Tom. I thought I’d share an experience I recently had. I was speaking to a fellow woodworker about a project he was interested in that I had made. He loved the photos of the Ben Franklin chair I built for my daughter. I never mentioned the tools I use until he asked me to join him at the local woodworkers guild to perhaps talk about the build. When I told him I was a Shop Smith owner he wrinkled his nose rescinded the offer and changed the subject! This was almost personal with this guy. I just don’t get it?
So sorry that happened to you Bob. Lots of stories like that unfortunately.
OK, I’ve come up with a list I’m willing to share. Before I divulge that list, I would like to make a few points to put it in perspective. First, I don’t think I qualify as a Shopsmith hater because I actually own a Shopsmith (along with a bunch of other stand-alone power tools). I have been woodworking for about 40+ years, and about 15 years ago I bought a second-hand model 500. Since then I have upgraded it to a model 520, replaced the headstock with a Powerpro, bought accessories like the lift-assist, universal tool rest, cross-cut table, double-tilt upgrade, and others (but no SPTs).
My second point would be that I think the question you are trying to answer, the cost to duplicate the Shopsmith functions with stand-alone tools, is an interesting theoretical one but not really practical. I prefer to answer the question, if I was starting out in woodworking and had $5K to spend, should I buy the Mark 7 or is there a better way to spend $5K, or do I even need to spend that much. I think this is more the buyer’s perspective.
This leads me to drop two items from the list. First, I would omit the lathe. Even though I am an avid woodturner now, I did woodworking for 25 years before I even touched a lathe. Wood turning is a specialty part of the hobby, and you can build that coffee table, bookcase, dining room table, deck, kitchen cabinets, desk, etc., without needing a lathe. Plus, once you start woodturning you’ll need a bench grinder, bandsaw, a lot of turning tools, chucks, woodturning classes, and more, so someone starting out should probably put off buying a lathe. The second item I would drop is the horizontal boring machine. As you noted in your video, these are uncommon, suggesting very few woodworkers have them. The only times I have used this function on my Shopsmith was to drill holes for dowels. However, now I have a doweling jig that I prefer to use because I find it more accurate.
So finally here is my list. I actually have two lists, one at the lower end of prices and one at the high end:
Table saw: Low end: Grizzly G0870 10" 2 HP Portable Table Saw with Roller Stand - $650 or (high end) Grizzly G0771Z - 10" 2 HP 120V Hybrid Table Saw with T-Shaped Fence - $1165
Drill press: Typical 12” benchtop ($500) or if you want variable speed, check out the Nova Viking 16" Benchtop DVR 1 HP Drill Press - $1200
Disk sander: I don’t see any real need for a disc sander to have variable speed; the Bauer (harbor freight) 12 in. 1.25 hp sander would work fine ($200), but I would actually prefer the Ridgid Oscillating Edge Belt/Spindle Sander - $329
For routing, you could get something like the Kreg router table ($250). I’m not including a router, and here’s why: even if you get the shopsmith, you will still need a hand held router for pieces too big to lift onto a router table. So that’s a wash in the comparison. Finally, just for fun, I’ll include the Jessem doweling jig ($125).
Add it up and you get $1725 at the low end and $3070 at the high end. Compare to the Shopsmith you save at least $2K. With than money you could buy a bandsaw, jointer and planer.
So is there any justification for buying a Shopsmith? Yes; one, the tool is very well made and can last a lifetime; two is that it is very versatile, for example I use mine for running my buffing and polishing wheels; three of course is the space argument, and four, it’s a fifty gizmo to play with.
Of course, each individual should decide which tools fit their woodworking goals, time, money, and space the best. This will lead different people in different directions. And of course, if you don't want a lathe or horizontal boring machine, you shouldn't buy them.
And yes you do come up with a cheaper list. Unfortunately, these are not better tools. You could also come up with better tools, but I doubt very much these would be cheaper. In my opinion, there are several aspects of your list that prove my point.
1. I disagree. This is not a theoretical exercise, it is a very practical comparison. In the 9 years I have owned Shopsmith equipment, I have used all 5 and later 7 functions on many projects. If I didn't have access to those tools I would have bared the expense of purchasing alternatives. Those expenses can't be disregarded.
2. To get your final price tag low enough, you had to drop two major tools from the list. By that logic, you could eliminate the table saw and use a hand saw or eliminate the drill press and use a $20 corded hand drill. That is certainly cheaper but I don't buy the argument that having no tool or only having a minimally viable tool is better than having a good tool.
3. The bench top Nova Viking is nice, but you'll need the floor model to more closely match the capacities of the Shopsmith. But, no a 12 inch benchtop drill press with 1/3 HP motor is just no comparison to the 16.5 inch 2 HP Shopsmith with digital speed control.
4. You might get away without having variable speed on a disc sander, but it's not a better option. That Bauer sander spins at 1725 RPM, because that is the native speed of the induction motor running on 60 Hz USA electricity, not because it's a wonderful speed for sanding. Variable speed is very useful for sanding, so is a large table with a quality miter gauge, and so the ability to easily change grits. I use all of these features to great effect in my projects. But, I do like the Rigid sander and wish I had room for one in addition to my existing tools.
5. The Horizontal Boring feature is very valuable and is a feature that I use as much or more than I use the Drill press. A good rule of thumb is that the widest part of the workpiece should be registered against the table. So if you're standing a piece on end or on its side then that's one of the situations where good results will be more easily achieved horizontally.
6. Yes, in some situations tools need to be brought to the workpiece and I do own a handheld router, circular saw, drill, etc. in addition to my Shopsmith. Also, I agree that a separate router table will be necessary for some people since Shopsmith can cover some but not all routing needs. In a previous video, I suggested a Bosch Router/Table combo for $330 for those people. But I don't think people will constantly uninstall and re-install the router from the table. Especially people who don't like the Shopsmith tool changeover. They will buy two routers.
7. No, I would not suggest a beginner speed $5,000 on a Shopsmith to get started. Nor would I suggest a beginner spend $3,000 on your tool list to get started. What I would tell a beginner is to focus on developing new skills with the tools they already own and focus on building projects which make use of those skills. For me, I started with a used $400 Shopsmith Mark 5 510, including bandsaw and jointer. I wouldn't hesitate to recommend that others consider a used Shopsmith as an option as well.
Tom,
Right On. When it comes to trashing a product vs. supporting a product, its like night and day. Thanks for the update. And you are too young to be forgetful. LOL just kiddin' I do it all the time. Oh I'm old.
Thanks Jim, glad to do it!
Do you have a list of tools that are both BETTER and CHEAPER? Share it here!
I’m thinking enough about the Shopsmith hater’s. I bought a used Mark 520 because of the John Malarkey video. That’s a great job on the danish cord I want to see a video on how you do that 😊. Great video by the way enjoy them all.
@@kylereed3577 thanks Kyle I’m learning weaving in real time. At this point I think I got the pattern down but took a lot of “unweaving” to get there.
I have yet to see anyone use a ShopSmith to rip down sheet goods to make base and upper cabinet boxes or built ins. That would be interesting.
I have 17 cabinets and 34 cabinet doors in my home built with my Shopsmith. But that was before my UA-cam days. How ever this video shows a lot of similar processes. ua-cam.com/video/b_VpJXjTvsA/v-deo.html
I see complete used units for 500 bucks, every now and then. Once I get my garage set up I will buy one. Dad has a 70s version and grandad had either a 10 or 10er. Just as a drill press, side borer, lathe and overhead router it's worth 500 to me. I prefer my 80s craftsman table saw but that's just me.
That's a good plan. Plenty of great deals in the used market.
Just an FYI
I hope all is well Nasty weather
GT
I would have really been surprised at any lists or comebacks. The unqualified arguments were both addressed and destroyed. I would have been even more surprised if John Malecky would have responded to Scott. If you're confident someone has a loosing hand, always call their bluff. Both you guys did well, but you took it to a level where the haters really couldn't use simple rhetoric. Glad to see the chair at this stage.
Thanks Daniel!
You stuck your neck out and the knives never showed!
There are some who might say, “I’ll show how the Shopsmith…”, but very few do. You did one hellofa good job.
Good on yuh!
Thanks John!
I sent you list comparing new tools to shopsmith including jointer, table saw, bandsaw, sander and lathe, so do not say nobody responded, I took 5 minutes to come up with list but could have done even better if I had the time to do more research. So now you are changing your challenge as you had originally included the jointer and the bandsaw, but now its only about the stand alone shopsmith so you still have to go and buy other tools, not what your original argument was about or what John Maleki's video was about either. Its up to you what you choose to use but I have both and use my shopsmith a couple times a month for rough turning odd shaped items so if it breaks no big deal, I honestly think everyone should use what they like and feel comfortable with. Not a hater just not a huge fanboy and would never buy one new.
Where did you send the list? I never got it.
You are 100% wrong I never included any of the optional tools in the price comparisons.
Can you use this tool for picture frames ?
I believe it could be.
@@woodshopnerdery thank you.