Path of Exile Spell Suppression Mechanics, and Why You Die At 99%.
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- Опубліковано 12 жов 2024
- In Path of Exile 3.16 Scourge League Spell Suppression was added replacing Spell Dodge, here's an explanation of the mechanics and use cases.
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For absolutely no reason, I'd really like to see a well-explained video of breakpoints for Cast on Crit builds. I think there's 3 major breakpoints between CDR and ATS, and understanding how they work together and what the options are for tweaking each one would be absolutely amazing
My initial reaction to reading this was "I remember seeing a really good one" but after searching around for it I realized that it's a reddit post/spreadsheet, not a video.
@@Tenkiei yeah me too! I wouldn't hate getting a Tenkiei take on it ;)
@@ShakCentral Well I don't want to make promises, but I'll look into it.
@@Tenkiei also usefull would be the breakpoints for different weapons, dual/wield/2-handers etc.
@@StayAWhileAndListen5 Breakpoints are strictly based on attack speed and cooldown recovery, dual wield/2h/1h and shield is irrelevant.
And here I thought going from 75% res to 82% res was 27% less damage of the type, not halved or 50% less
Yeah the suppression is quite strong defense mechanic. Capping it to 100% and getting the suppressed spell damage from 50% to 55% made playing trickster for the first time ever feel like a hypertank. Well 33k evasion with ghost shroud might have helped a lot too a bit xD
Ghost Shroud is one of those mechanics that was always really strong just quite limited in the past because you had to be a trickster which didn't work with all builds. Now it's just genuinely great.
@@Tenkiei I'm playing Trickster and I die a lot less than in past leagues thanks to spell suppres and ghost shroud.
But what I also feel is that I don't need to be "Trickster" to feel that I'm playing trickster, putting ghost shroud for all classes took away your personality.
And I think that's why it's the least played class today according to Poe Ninja.
Putting together the facts that Spell Supress + Ghost Shroud + Evasion/Armor make a good combination ( u can use grace + determination because mana reservation efficiency is another broken thing ).
And Trickster was considerably nerfed.
Opens a big window for a possible "nerf" in ghost shroud, going back to trickster and solving these 2 problems.
I love it when I search for a PoE game mechanic and find a video by you for it. I know I’m in for a meticulous explanation and that I won’t be needing to search further. Great content as always, mate. Thank you!
Thanks, glad you found it helpful!
These are good videos that suggest defense or offense mechanics that work well together!
Thanks!
I refused to touch mines because of Detonate Mines but keeping it on the move button seems pretty cool.
I'd love to hear about your opinion on Glancing Blows on caster builds (due to the lack of fortify). Maybe a pros vs cons on glancing blows for both staff and shield casters.
To me it feels like it hurts more than it helps unless you have a good way of recovery on block and you wanna cap your block as efficiently as possible.
The TL:DR version of that would be:
Pros - enables life/es gained on block.
Cons - bad without it.
@@Tenkiei could damage recoup work with glancing blows?
0:35 You mean 87.5% max rez, not 82%.
Since the mitigation cap for ele damage is 90% res, and the base is 75% reaching 50% mitigation is 82.5%. Fully mitigating damage elemental damage in PoE is impossible but it's really hard to get into that without making the video an explanation of why res is confusing.
Yes halving the damage you take is not achieved by reaching 50% of the possible mitigation via max res, it is achieved by halving the difference between your current resistance and 100% res. This seems to be in error. Great content though on the whole, Tenkiei
@@deepseaboat Ah, slight misspeak. I just noticed it re-listening for the third time, I had in my head (and script) meant to say "reaching 50% mitigation" for ele res, and "halving the damage you take" for spell suppression, and somehow the 2 got crossed.
But on my initial watch through after editing my brain just filled in the correct concepts for me. So I missed what I said.
Thank you for the explanation, I wasn't sure how this works.
Glad it helped.
Also worth noting that the Instinct notable gives 50 flat ES gain when you suppress spell dmg, it might not be much against big hits, but it can help a fair bit in mapping if you use spell suppression and happen to be pathing near it anyway.
Also if relying on conditional spell suppression chance then you really should aim to slightly overcap it, having 90% chance + two sets of 10% conditional is a lot better than having 90% + just a single 10% conditional, even if 100% guaranteed is better than both.
it seems like a good addition to ghost dance no? 50 es is like having 1700 extra evasion rating.
@@minhocho5487 Yeah they work pretty well together for builds that can afford pathing to both.
Yeah, ideally you want 100% with no conditionals, but 2 conditionals are better than 1 for sure.
Armour provides same physical defense against Bleeds as from hits.
No, armor only mitigates hits. Bleeding is a damage over time effect thus bypassing it.
You know what? I've never understood how energy shield works. How can people sustain it when recovery is blocked when you take damage? Like shouldn't it just drain when you're taking damage even if you're leaching or recovering on block. Unless you avoid damage for 2 seconds (or less with passives), it should just be going down?
There's a lot of ES recovery mechanics, that allow your ES recovery rate to exceed the damage you take.
For example if you get hit for 2% of your max ES, and recover 5% on block, you net 3% ES when you block. So vs a lot of small hits your ES goes up not down.
Or you could always do what I do and just simply not get hit. When it works, it works all the time and when it doesn't work you forget because it was a negative moment. Don't get hit bros
I really like being overcapped compared to spell supression. The only thing im dying to is 100+ krangle count chaos golem packs in high tier maps. Just cant afford to get chaos res up yet but 7800 hp is enough buffer to slam pots and dash away. Confused on block and stun recovery which catches me getting locked up even with unwavering stance, just gonna drop my shield for more damage soon anyways. EK hits a little soft on the T13+ maps atm but clears like a beast in most maps.
Block is an odd one, because it functions as a stun, but isn't actually a stun.
Yeah the stun is based on the damage of the hit you take relative to your max health, so if the damage is large enough it stuns. If you block one of those hits, you do "block animation" but if the damage is small that you block, you kinda get a "free block" with no animation/interruption. But in essence you can increase your hax HP so it takes a bigger damage to stun you, you can get stun avoidance which is a chance not to get stunned, or you can get stun immunity. Also you can just cap the stun avoidance to 100% for that stun immunity. And lastly there is the stun treshold modifier, but this just scales up or down how much relative damage needs to be inflicted for the stun. Increase it for yourself, decrease for enemies obviously.
I'm not sure those chaos golems are killing you with chaos damage. I've been killed by them several times on my Bane Occultist with 76% chaos res. It's their rock wave attack that kills me and I think that is physical, but not sure. I have basically no physical defense as that is one of my few weaknesses on the build.
I appreciate the discussion of defensive layers on that side of the tree but there are some builds that straight-up suffer. For example, IIRC, traps don't count as "you" doing the damage so life leech, life on hit, life on kill, and similar effects don't really work. Getting a good combination of Life & ES + Recovery + Max Res + Spell Suppression + Phys mitigation + DoT mitigation + Evasion + Ailment handling + Damage all on a budget is really a tough thing to balance properly esp. with the wild swings in damage that occur as more of a "game design" choice than anything else. I think discussions on how to balance all the competing interests would be a better use of time. IMHO :)
I am a trapper, and I am leeching. But no traps do not count as you.
@@Tenkiei In this case my question is how are you leeching and what are the triggers? When I did some searches the WIKI and other places indicate that a pure trapper can't leech. When I searched again the idea of on-kill effects may credit you if the traps is "destroyed" and you're all that's left ...
@@erutherford My flask. % of Damage Taken from Hits Leeched as Life during Flask Effect.
Machina mitts lets mines leech, but no traps sadly..
But when you listed all of those different defensive layers there, that's just a few too many. Like layered defenses are good but you have to draw a line on what all you are going to get. For example increasing max res above 75, and getting spell suppression kinda do the same thing. Not totally, cos monster deal #% dmg as element isnt countered by spell suppression, but then again elemental resistances dont help against physical spells, and to chaos to some extent. Same thing with armor vs evasion, as armor helps against phys spells but evasion doesnt, but then evasion helps against attacks that do elemental damage, while armor does not. So having something like high evasion character with max spell suppression is kinda good, cos you can evade attacks that do either phys, elemental, or both, and spell suppression just negates all kind of spell damage. Cap out elemental resistances and your first layer of defences, the mitigation part is nicely balanced and done. Its not perfect yet, but it can be rounded with some "phys taken as elemental" to further mitigate phys spells, or cwdt immortal call for 15% less phys and elemental damage taken too is nice. Vaal orbing a jewel can gove you corrupted blood immunity if not from the new passive skill tree masteries already taken, and you can have a flask to remove degens, you could have ailment immunity to prevent degens, or you could have pantheon minor nodes to fight either ignite or bleed. Chaos degens are kinda nonexistwnt in the game except the hunter conqueror but you could again use flask to get rid of poison, you could go CI, or you could just get some chaos res and then use recovery to fight the poison.
Flicker strike Raider with 100% spell suppression, +75% attack block and armour. Tankiest char I've ever had.
Yeah attack block is a good layer to combine with spell suppression as well.
Can you post pob
ahaah that bleed at 6:25
It’s not like we have a choice anymore on armor/es characters.
Mechanics and Mechanical Explinations? Oh boy!
(But unironically)
Great video but I am confused on why the evasion entropy system is a good thing.
The worst outcome for an evasion character is taking 2+ hits successively. Entropy prevents that from happening. You are thinking that w/o entropy you might get lucky and not get hit at all and that will happen sometimes. The problem is you will also hit the occurrence where you get unlucky and 2-3 attacks will just straight up kill you.
What about spell dodge? Or in your opinion it's not good, because it's capped at 75%?
Problem with comparing them though is you need 150% suppression chance to cap out spell dodge, so it isn't just about which is the stronger defence but also if you can also afford to stack that much suppression chance for your build.
Personally, I feel there are 2 kinds of tanky builds--ones that can handle multiple small hits in a row and ones that can handle occasional massive hits. Spell suppression is good against the first (i.e. if you are playing Agnostic or have crazy regen or something, spell suppression basically makes it less likely something can clock you) while spell dodge is good against the second (i.e. if you are playing Kintsugi, you mitigate massive hits as long as they don't happen too often). So for me, which is better depends on how your character otherwise handles incoming hits.
Spell dodge is a 25% chance to die to spell damage.
@@Tenkiei 😅👍
Tenkiei: All poe mechanics confuse me. A basic poe math lesson would be great.
math lesson? What do you mean?
Thanks
So what are talismans and what is the point in them existing
Chris Wilson's pet project for poor man's amulets. (I played a Marauder in HC back in the Talisman league.)
Hi sir... First of all, I really like your tips, but there's something difficult to understand everything.
In your video, you explain a lot of things, but some words can't be compreensive because there's not image of for example, a skill gem, or keystone passive, or items etc...
That's very difficult to get it, specially for new players who doesn't know some item for their name (btw... it's tough to hear some strange name of an item)
Or even for only players who doesn't get new mechanics such as spell supression and similars.
The main reason I don't add a ton of on-screen graphics is I'm my own editor, and a vast majority of people who view my videos don't actually watch them they listen to the audio only so adding a bunch of graphics adds a lot of editing time that I often don't have. But for some recent videos I've been experimenting with putting a TL:DR of key terms in the description to try to find a happy medium between having enough time to release the video on time, and also getting the info out as clearly as possible.
What skills is he using in this vid?
Seismic/Exsanguinate Trap.
Another bullshit GGG added to the bloated 'mitigation' system.
Yuk
armour mechanics are confusing af.
For a really simplified view, think of armour as flat mitigation: X points of armour will prevent Y points of damage. Because it is flat, scaling armour is less effective the more you scale (10 to 20 mitigation is awesome but 10,000 to 10,010 is terrible even though both of these upgrades take the same investment). The actual formula is of course more complicated than that.
Yeah they are, a rule of thumb you can think about is the biggest hit you take, and 5x that is the minimum armor you want. IE if I want to mitigate a 12,000 phys on shift hit I want 60,000 armor.
First