this is my first league/character playing with suppression and im honestly super satisfied with how it feels. my previous character was rf inquis with 60k armour and 86 all res and I feel almost as tanky with my crappy 30k evasion poison trapper.
For my RF Jugg, it was really difficult to get any Spell Suppression. I started on the wrong side of the skill tree to pick up those passives, and I had specific gearing requirements that made it hard to shoehorn Spell Suppression into it. I had to worry about not just resists, but making sure my FR was overcapped so if someone nerfed it I was still capped so my own aura didn't destroy me, DoT multi, Fire DoT multi, fire damage multi... it was tough. I did pick up the Jugg passive that let armor function against ele hits. It wasn't a perfect replacement as chaos is a thing which still exists, but it was a heck of a lot better than nothing. My Soulrend/Bane occultist, though? Oh yea, you'd better believe I picked me up some Spell Suppression on her, since I was already in the area on the passive tree getting my extra curse.
2 роки тому+4
Another method used to get spell suppression in the poison SRS builds is by using The Green Nightmare jewel next to the Gravepact wheel. You 15% Suppression from that
For a raw physical attack of 5000 damage, 50,000 armour will reduce it by 50%. That being said, It may be diminishing returns but that same 5000 raw physical attack damage is reduced even further at 100,000 armour. It doesn't cap at just 50% DR. So, if you stack armour to mitigate at least 50% of the highest physical attack in the game, and then add 100% spell suppression, then take glancing blows and cap block chance, well then you deal no damage unless you use DD/VD or other skills that uses enemy max life to deal damage.
One very underrated and cheap way to get conditional spell suppression for melee builds on the left side of the tree is the unique amulet Willowgift which turns fortification stacks into suppression if you invest into fortify duration you can have it up while mapping very consistently but i wouldn't recommend for HC
Spell Suppression is insanely strong and a couple of leagues ago could be fully specced with gear. So, a Templar with zero tree investment could be capped via gear. And, Spell Suppression with Max Res shenanigans is insanely strong.
I'm mostly top and left myself. However since doing all this research on spell Suppression I think I'll spend more time branching out a bit more. If I can spend 10-15 passives on clusters on some builds, then there is most likely opportunities for others of my builds to expand those points to spell Suppression.
Adding the two most common spell suppression masteries to magebane (27%), 12% if boots helmet and gloves are eva (19% non magebane), and crit chance per spell suppression (6%none of the above) that adds up to over 44.4 % of hc sanctum players
i rarely play on the right side of the tree. but when i do yea, spell suppress is a "no brainer". i just wish spell block could be as available on the tree as suppression. sadly they gotta split all that up between shields, DW and staves. liking the in depth idea. would like to know more about the interactions between various mechanics.
Thanks for the comment Scott! Glad you enjoyed the discussion. I'm trying to PoB a scion that can cap block and suppression just to be nutty tanky. Obviously the trick is scaling damage as well haha.
If you have 75% elemental resistance and a 100% supress spell, it's the same thing as having 87% elemental resistance if you are hit by a spell. Especially if you are on the right side of the tree, supress is way easier to get than +12maximum resistances. Elementalist are weak for the lack of defense, and they are far from spell supress in the tree. If the had "double chance to supress but half the effect" ascendency node instead of elemental aegis it would be great.
Oooooooo I like that suggestion. That'd be interesting. The only problem is that Glancing blows is in a portion of the tree that has SOME block. So I would think a Spell Suppression Keynode would also be somewhere on the tree with some Suppression. Another factor is that Magebane already functions as "the" Spell Suppression keynode. I really like the idea, not sure how GGG would introduce such a keynode.
@@GoodGuyGaming3 In my opinion it's quite important to be an ascendency related to elementalist only and not on the tree. I guess it could be something like "Now elemental aegis also double supress spell chance."
I've never used spell suppression, but you make a compelling case. What I really want to know is, how many of those obnoxious Rare monster powers are spells? I suspect a lot of them are: Lightning Totem, Purple Crystals, Lightning Minion, Exploding and Toxic Orbs... Yeah, I could really get into this. Also, Aren't there passives which increase the actual amount suppressed? =0[.]o=
Oh good idea! Haha unfortunately I cannot recall a time ever in PoE when player defensive layers ever got a buff after receiving a nerf. New mechanics? Yes, buff to old mechanics? Can't remember any.
@@GoodGuyGaming3 Yes unfortunately that is the case. Honestly they could just change it to the physical version of suppression and it would be better than it currently is IMO.
I would be interested in discussions on how to actually have a decently sized life pool without having to rely on the Scion life wheel and stacking ES for CI builds. Even though I play softcore I find myself hitting a wall around tier 10 maps and I can't seem to complete the Uber Lab.
Thanks for the comment James! When I stream we often provide build assistance (think of it like tutoring for your build). You can always go back and rewatch one of our streams from the last few weeks since I resumed playing PoE as an example. If there is enough interest in a particular PoB/build help guide then I'd consider doing them as full on dedicated videos. I'd welcome you to share your PoB on the G3 discord in the "build help and advice" forum, and either I'll feature your build on stream, or other G3 community members will be able to provide assistance!
Tl;dr for life: take 10% life and 50 life masteries and nearby wheels, currently investing in armor/evasion at 4-5k hp is better than raw life at 6-7k hp. Other tips: If you're investing in evasion, playing the 30% more life/life is reserved when you take damage jewel and the aura that keeps you low life is a great way to get a bit more tanky while for example using the regen to rage gloves for high uptime berzerk. If you have regen and chaos res, the restore 80-100% life and take 25% chaos damage per second utility flask is awesome if you put "used when you take a savage hit", afaik it basically doubles your hp against one shots because in the same tick you take the damage and the potion procs, instantly recovering 100% of your life, so if you would take 6k damage with 4k life you'd be left with 2k life instead of resurrect in town.
2 роки тому+2
To be honest, just getting a flat 50% reduction on damage taken from any damage type is massive. I would be more puzzled if a lot of players were content with less than 100% chance.
hmmm..It halves the damages from spells by default, on top of all other sources of mitigation. Case closed? It is legit OP and shouldn't have been so easy to access from the start. Although it was meant to replace an over-used and abused defensive mechanic, which was dodge, which wasn't even as good on its own. But in combination with a bunch of other things it allowed some good tankiness which would feel subpar in the current game anyway. Oh, sweet sweet irony. Hence why Acrobatics is barely used. I'll call it now already Something that will happen, maybe even before PoE2, is the devs allowing too many access to bonus percents of mitigation from spell suppression (through items, passives..etc), leading them to nerf the whole mechanic to the ground not long after that. As they usually do. And reddit will whine as usual.
I agree to an extent. Dodge (when it is in favor of the player) is more powerful as you can completely ignore any other layers of defense. When entropy comes in and a Zero defense character gets hit, dodge becomes worse. Spell Suppression helps smooth things out and reward other layers of mitigation a player may have invested in.
I still would becarefull with spells that act as degen. I believe equipment has to be dex related to be able to roll spell suppression mods. I got 2 characters 1 with spell suppression max and 1 hasnt, still trying to figure out how good the difference is between them in a defensive way. The ehp is in favor of the one without but he is also higher lvled than the other.
Remember that Spell Suppression is only a layer against spells, so in terms of contributing to total "ehp" it may not seem like that big of a deal. However when players keep dying in tier X maps, or to X end game boss, it's very often due to a huge hitting spell.
I rarely use spell suppression. That's probably because I mostly play characters that have no business being on the right side of the tree. It is a very late game mechanic, since dying before level 95 is completely irrelevant.
Why is spell suppression good: 100% spell suppression at 75% resist is 12.5% Max All Res. It's like strapping two and a half perfect Brass Domes on yourself.
That is a glorious way to express the power of it haha. I've got a mental picture of a Raider running around with 2 and a half Brass Domes slung over her shoulders xD.
spell surpression is the reason i hate poe right now because it exist all enemy that deal elemental dmg were buffed to still pose a threat. But half of the passive tree and all people who hate dex requirements are gated from this type of defence and get obliterated by some little skelettal mages. there is not even a way to get it by manareservation, for spell block you can just go tempest shield and mitigate some dmg. Prbloem number 2: unless you include resist stacking only spell surpression works withour a chance to fail with enough investment. Block can still fail and you get onehitted. also its easier to get spell surpression capped with gear + passive tree then block . max resist stacking is gated to hard by melding or reservation / endgame crafting.
Terrific question! I would generally advise taking Magebane to resolve any discrepancy between a good chunk of suppression chance (say between 65-80%) and the cap (100%). Because you want to have suppression chance capped, you have to do the math on the amount of passive points (or gear choices) that it would cost you to grab a whole suppression chance wheel (featured in the video) vs grabbing magebane. If you are a duelist or marauder grabbing nodes towards the center of the tree, then it's not far for you to grab Magebane or a suppression wheel. The thing about armour is that it only counts vs physical damage. Physical damage can come as an attack, making that a situation where investment into suppression wouldn't be active as a layer. I hope that answers some of your question!
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309hrs in... this is a KEY ingredient. thank you so much for this information, i hope you get everything you ask for this Christmas
Thanks for the kind words mate. Fun to see some of the old videos are still of value to the community.
Mixing Spell Suppression with Chance to Block is really powerful. I love using Tempest Shield and have used it for a long time.
This is definitely the sort of discussion I'll listen to all day. Thank you brother!
I appreciate all the info. It's nice to see you back!!
Thanks Daron! Glad to be back!
Thanks for the detailed video!
Great video!
Thanks Epi! Glad you enjoyed it.
Super helpful ty!
Well made video. Thanks
Glad you enjoyed this discussion mate! Cheers.
this is my first league/character playing with suppression and im honestly super satisfied with how it feels.
my previous character was rf inquis with 60k armour and 86 all res and I feel almost as tanky with my crappy 30k evasion poison trapper.
For my RF Jugg, it was really difficult to get any Spell Suppression. I started on the wrong side of the skill tree to pick up those passives, and I had specific gearing requirements that made it hard to shoehorn Spell Suppression into it. I had to worry about not just resists, but making sure my FR was overcapped so if someone nerfed it I was still capped so my own aura didn't destroy me, DoT multi, Fire DoT multi, fire damage multi... it was tough. I did pick up the Jugg passive that let armor function against ele hits. It wasn't a perfect replacement as chaos is a thing which still exists, but it was a heck of a lot better than nothing.
My Soulrend/Bane occultist, though? Oh yea, you'd better believe I picked me up some Spell Suppression on her, since I was already in the area on the passive tree getting my extra curse.
Another method used to get spell suppression in the poison SRS builds is by using The Green Nightmare jewel next to the Gravepact wheel. You 15% Suppression from that
Great point! Thanks for sharing!
I am confused. It seems the jewel is about spell block not spell suppression?
Died multiple times to revenant, they were really scary when they had some kind of haste mod which made them cast ridiculously fast.
For a raw physical attack of 5000 damage, 50,000 armour will reduce it by 50%. That being said, It may be diminishing returns but that same 5000 raw physical attack damage is reduced even further at 100,000 armour. It doesn't cap at just 50% DR. So, if you stack armour to mitigate at least 50% of the highest physical attack in the game, and then add 100% spell suppression, then take glancing blows and cap block chance, well then you deal no damage unless you use DD/VD or other skills that uses enemy max life to deal damage.
Me playing with 0 spellsup and 0 armor, the true sc way (new haste aura is amazing)
One very underrated and cheap way to get conditional spell suppression for melee builds on the left side of the tree is the unique amulet Willowgift which turns fortification stacks into suppression if you invest into fortify duration you can have it up while mapping very consistently but i wouldn't recommend for HC
Great suggestion Muhammed! Thanks for sharing!
Spell Suppression is insanely strong and a couple of leagues ago could be fully specced with gear. So, a Templar with zero tree investment could be capped via gear. And, Spell Suppression with Max Res shenanigans is insanely strong.
Great video, I think the main reason I haven't used Spell Suppression very much is because most builds I play are on the left hand side of the tree
I'm mostly top and left myself. However since doing all this research on spell Suppression I think I'll spend more time branching out a bit more. If I can spend 10-15 passives on clusters on some builds, then there is most likely opportunities for others of my builds to expand those points to spell Suppression.
I would say it's the best mechanic. The only thing I lack is some phys suppression which would cut the mega hits. I have 5%x2 phys to elemental.
I'm a mathematician, so definitely don't have a problem with definitions ;)
Thx I was about to take that next level😅
might be worth for the new players to mention supress rolls on gear that has any kind of evasion
I hate how it feels like a must have these days, yet another box to tick on every single character
As ninja cannot track Invocation-granted keystones, I'm fairly sure the amount of Magebane allocations is even larger than the data suggests.
Great point!
Adding the two most common spell suppression masteries to magebane (27%), 12% if boots helmet and gloves are eva (19% non magebane), and crit chance per spell suppression (6%none of the above) that adds up to over 44.4 % of hc sanctum players
Excellent data! Thanks for sharing!
i rarely play on the right side of the tree. but when i do yea, spell suppress is a "no brainer".
i just wish spell block could be as available on the tree as suppression. sadly they gotta split all that up between shields, DW and staves.
liking the in depth idea. would like to know more about the interactions between various mechanics.
Thanks for the comment Scott! Glad you enjoyed the discussion. I'm trying to PoB a scion that can cap block and suppression just to be nutty tanky. Obviously the trick is scaling damage as well haha.
If you have 75% elemental resistance and a 100% supress spell, it's the same thing as having 87% elemental resistance if you are hit by a spell. Especially if you are on the right side of the tree, supress is way easier to get than +12maximum resistances.
Elementalist are weak for the lack of defense, and they are far from spell supress in the tree. If the had "double chance to supress but half the effect" ascendency node instead of elemental aegis it would be great.
Oooooooo I like that suggestion. That'd be interesting. The only problem is that Glancing blows is in a portion of the tree that has SOME block. So I would think a Spell Suppression Keynode would also be somewhere on the tree with some Suppression. Another factor is that Magebane already functions as "the" Spell Suppression keynode.
I really like the idea, not sure how GGG would introduce such a keynode.
@@GoodGuyGaming3 In my opinion it's quite important to be an ascendency related to elementalist only and not on the tree. I guess it could be something like "Now elemental aegis also double supress spell chance."
Or just making element aegis better to mimic a supress
You make thing easy to understand thanks! and sub+1
Even if I have a high amount of max resis I still feel like suppression is completely required which does feel pretty bad after the nerf on gear.
I've never used spell suppression, but you make a compelling case. What I really want to know is, how many of those obnoxious Rare monster powers are spells? I suspect a lot of them are: Lightning Totem, Purple Crystals, Lightning Minion, Exploding and Toxic Orbs... Yeah, I could really get into this. Also, Aren't there passives which increase the actual amount suppressed? =0[.]o=
@Raycheetah there is a mastery that increases the amount of the% of the spell that is supressed.
Spell Suppression is powerful enough that Ive been of the opinion that they need to revert Glancing Blows back to it's old values.
Oh good idea! Haha unfortunately I cannot recall a time ever in PoE when player defensive layers ever got a buff after receiving a nerf. New mechanics? Yes, buff to old mechanics? Can't remember any.
@@GoodGuyGaming3 Yes unfortunately that is the case. Honestly they could just change it to the physical version of suppression and it would be better than it currently is IMO.
I got a little bit of it but overall I rely on a lot of regen and a good ele res.
I would be interested in discussions on how to actually have a decently sized life pool without having to rely on the Scion life wheel and stacking ES for CI builds. Even though I play softcore I find myself hitting a wall around tier 10 maps and I can't seem to complete the Uber Lab.
Thanks for the comment James! When I stream we often provide build assistance (think of it like tutoring for your build). You can always go back and rewatch one of our streams from the last few weeks since I resumed playing PoE as an example. If there is enough interest in a particular PoB/build help guide then I'd consider doing them as full on dedicated videos. I'd welcome you to share your PoB on the G3 discord in the "build help and advice" forum, and either I'll feature your build on stream, or other G3 community members will be able to provide assistance!
Tl;dr for life: take 10% life and 50 life masteries and nearby wheels, currently investing in armor/evasion at 4-5k hp is better than raw life at 6-7k hp.
Other tips:
If you're investing in evasion, playing the 30% more life/life is reserved when you take damage jewel and the aura that keeps you low life is a great way to get a bit more tanky while for example using the regen to rage gloves for high uptime berzerk.
If you have regen and chaos res, the restore 80-100% life and take 25% chaos damage per second utility flask is awesome if you put "used when you take a savage hit", afaik it basically doubles your hp against one shots because in the same tick you take the damage and the potion procs, instantly recovering 100% of your life, so if you would take 6k damage with 4k life you'd be left with 2k life instead of resurrect in town.
To be honest, just getting a flat 50% reduction on damage taken from any damage type is massive. I would be more puzzled if a lot of players were content with less than 100% chance.
hmmm..It halves the damages from spells by default, on top of all other sources of mitigation. Case closed?
It is legit OP and shouldn't have been so easy to access from the start. Although it was meant to replace an over-used and abused defensive mechanic, which was dodge, which wasn't even as good on its own. But in combination with a bunch of other things it allowed some good tankiness which would feel subpar in the current game anyway. Oh, sweet sweet irony. Hence why Acrobatics is barely used.
I'll call it now already
Something that will happen, maybe even before PoE2, is the devs allowing too many access to bonus percents of mitigation from spell suppression (through items, passives..etc), leading them to nerf the whole mechanic to the ground not long after that. As they usually do. And reddit will whine as usual.
Can chill to 50% movement speed be as strong?
I dont get the design philisophy behind suppression. We lost dodge because it was too reliable and got something that is even more reliable.
I agree to an extent. Dodge (when it is in favor of the player) is more powerful as you can completely ignore any other layers of defense. When entropy comes in and a Zero defense character gets hit, dodge becomes worse. Spell Suppression helps smooth things out and reward other layers of mitigation a player may have invested in.
I still would becarefull with spells that act as degen.
I believe equipment has to be dex related to be able to roll spell suppression mods.
I got 2 characters 1 with spell suppression max and 1 hasnt, still trying to figure out how good the difference is between them in a defensive way. The ehp is in favor of the one without but he is also higher lvled than the other.
Remember that Spell Suppression is only a layer against spells, so in terms of contributing to total "ehp" it may not seem like that big of a deal. However when players keep dying in tier X maps, or to X end game boss, it's very often due to a huge hitting spell.
Taking magebane on my dext stacking character is 1 point for 100% spell suppression.
Because is reliable
is this bonus also useful for mapping itself?
Plenty of monsters in maps deal spell damage. So spell suppression is quite helpful for mapping.
Let's talk about your second favourite balding, bearded character in poe. I didn't expect templar beeing nr1... :D
I rarely use spell suppression. That's probably because I mostly play characters that have no business being on the right side of the tree. It is a very late game mechanic, since dying before level 95 is completely irrelevant.
Why is spell suppression good:
100% spell suppression at 75% resist is 12.5% Max All Res.
It's like strapping two and a half perfect Brass Domes on yourself.
That is a glorious way to express the power of it haha. I've got a mental picture of a Raider running around with 2 and a half Brass Domes slung over her shoulders xD.
spell surpression is the reason i hate poe right now because it exist all enemy that deal elemental dmg were buffed to still pose a threat. But half of the passive tree and all people who hate dex requirements are gated from this type of defence and get obliterated by some little skelettal mages. there is not even a way to get it by manareservation, for spell block you can just go tempest shield and mitigate some dmg. Prbloem number 2: unless you include resist stacking only spell surpression works withour a chance to fail with enough investment. Block can still fail and you get onehitted. also its easier to get spell surpression capped with gear + passive tree then block . max resist stacking is gated to hard by melding or reservation / endgame crafting.
Would you take magebane on a char that's mainly armour based? or how much dexterity would you think is necessary to make magebane worthwhile?
Terrific question! I would generally advise taking Magebane to resolve any discrepancy between a good chunk of suppression chance (say between 65-80%) and the cap (100%). Because you want to have suppression chance capped, you have to do the math on the amount of passive points (or gear choices) that it would cost you to grab a whole suppression chance wheel (featured in the video) vs grabbing magebane. If you are a duelist or marauder grabbing nodes towards the center of the tree, then it's not far for you to grab Magebane or a suppression wheel.
The thing about armour is that it only counts vs physical damage. Physical damage can come as an attack, making that a situation where investment into suppression wouldn't be active as a layer.
I hope that answers some of your question!
2024, this all still accurate?
Passive tree has changed, general concepts of the strength of spell suppression still true.