Agree with the point about grouping mechanics. Putting people together for the most part is fine, teleporting them instantly takes way too much from the game. In terms of balance, I once again think PoE is a good example. In that game there are guides out there for builds that can destroy all content, and that's fine. However there is also a lot of room for making your own unique build, that in most cases will be absolutely flawed. There will be content you are unable to do. BUT, because you are designing it yourself and trying to find out what works, it's fun. It provides a sense of achievement. It also lets you play the way YOU find to be fun. Also, a suggestion for a topic if I may. "Are Flying Mounts bad for MMO's" - I'm personally staunchly against them, but I always find the discussion interesting.
I think you are spot on with the idea of "there will be content YOU are unable to do" People forgot that we used to fail in RPGs. We would fail dice rolls, and we got a laugh out of it, especially with Baulder's Gate 3 recently. What do you mean I fail on a 1 only and I happened to roll a critical fail. I remember back in FFXIV, we had days when the only healer we could find was a Red Mage. Anyone who played that game will tell you how perfect everything had to be with a RDM healer since they lacked the pure HPS output of a White Mage. But you took what you could get. Now, there were other days when we would have a RDM healer but a Ninja tank and that worked as a combo. In FFXIV I think the only dungeon I've ever failed to complete on a first try was "The Burn" What happened to failing dungeons? What happened to needing to go back to the drawing board and try again? What happened to needing to build a balanced team to clear content? Now, because everyone wants participation trophy success, we can face roll all the content with ease. And I will absolutely do that video on flying mounts. Its on the sticky notes so it will get done in the next week or so.
just got to 3:32 I believe you are spot on. Where is the time for socialising? why would I? it's only wasting time I should spend grinding. This is a very important issue you have highlighted! I hope that AOC and future MMOs can include something like a tavern in which you gain xp for socialising; for interacting with players and staying there. some incentive to get involved with a space in which the community is present and relaxed; not necessarily chowing through content
I think without socializing any game in development (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, Pax Dei, Chrono Odyssey, Archeage 2) is doomed to be a remix of a remaster of a repeat of the games that have failed.
I was once a 0.1% player who only engaged with the most toxic, try hard people on my server and loved every minute of it, then I left high school... Now I'm much older with 4 wonderful kids and my own business, Intrepid needs to focus on players like us to rake in some serious cash and player numbers. We far, far, far out number 1% players and the start of the game needs to be fun from the absolute beginning because we really don't have much free time at all. If Intrepid want some of the dad money, it needs to be fun. I don't care if getting to max level takes 3 years - if it's fun, I'll keep paying the subscription.
I don't think its just Intrepid, I think every MMORPG in develop needs to focus on this. There is nothing wrong with making content for the 1%. Mythic Raids or Extreme Raids or something that gives them a shiny cosmetic, bragging rights, or even an in game statue outside of the dungeon, but don't give them power that can be used to stay on top. I also love what you said about taking 3 years to get to max level. We really need to make the leveling process take a year or more to get to max level. We need to put the focus back on the journey and not the destination. In table top D&D you can be a level 8 character and have a blast. In Baulder's Gate you end at level 12.
I like the Commissions boards in AoC because they are ever changing, and time based but allow for many people to take the same quest. Which leads them to the same area to do the same thing. This IS a group finder, without the need for people to look for a group. Like Arche Age, you go there, you do what you can solo until more people show up and then you group up with whoever shows up. Sometimes you walk into the area to start doing what you can and the already their group instantly invites you to join. What? you don't have a healer in the group? well then you didn't have one solo, at least now you're killing things faster. These temporary groups eventually lead to name familiarity, the same people who live in your node keep doing quests, and you keep grouping up with the same people. This leads to social interactions with other players that can increase the size of your guild, or maybe you join their guild, alliances between guilds, or even becoming friends with other players who call on each other to complete serious content down the road. "Hey, did anyone get a friend request with that ANYCLASS we were adventuring with yesterday? we really need him." Nudging solo players into situations where they end up being in a group they didn't intend to be in, it just happened.
I do agree with that. I ended up picking up a lot of people into my newbie guild in Archeage from farming in Diamond Shores or farming for Hiram items. A potential problem with the commission board system is that while it *might* be good for grouping people up, I'd be willing to bet what is more likely is that groups with a tank, healer/support, and damage dealers will already be grouped up to do the content since it is Node content and they will go out into the world. This *might* lead to some solo players being able to form groups, and it *might* lead to solo players being picked up into other groups, however, since we have optimized the fun out of games what I think is more likely rather than less likely to happen is groups will pre-form, do content, and then go off together to do other planned content. I do remember keeping a pen and paper next to my computer to write down the names of people who were good in PUGs. I almost always friended them if I wanted to adventure with them again at a later date. Sadly, people form their little jeesh of players they like and then don't venture out of that group.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork for sure there's going to be established groups roaming and not looking for other players. BUT there are going to be smaller guilds and solo's around and this gives them the chance to meet with others. From my experience, most friend groups are 4-6 people, which leaves room for at least a couple of pugs. My plans are to RUN far away from the starter beach of rock melee battles and get outside of the potential Vassal state of nodes too close to the starting area. Out where I live, there will be less larger guilds, as I intend to avoid the Castles (at least at the start) and other major PVP POI (as many solo players and small guilds will). The demographic will change depending on where you decide to live, but at least we won't have roof campers :D
Yeah sadly with the massive changes they had in the map size and the total number of Nodes dropping, I think the idea of moving as far away from the 4 starter areas as you can to avoid other guilds isn't going to work unless you are a medium size guild. The large guilds are going to move into a strategic location to control Nodes closest to the castles so they can be castle contenders. The medium size guilds are then forced to move into the areas where they have a chance to be relevant. The 4-6 man size friend groups won't even be a fully party for doing content, and I think there is a high chance of them getting left by the wayside. You'll basically be struggling to always have to fill those last 2-4 slots to flush out the party.
Not only have we optimized the fun out of mmo's but the players themselves have created the issue by PVP'ing everyone off the servers in now dead full loot games. Making raids so stupidly op that you have to hit the exact rotation of an exact build to be able to even compete in your raids. Why was classic wow so great...because no one knew how everything worked. Builds weren't optimized to death for super swanky key or raid runs. Like everyone saying warriors were OP not one warrior said that in actual classic wow. When wow opened warriors were absolute dogshit in pvp it wasn't until several patches later they got their due. I know this because our poor raid tanks were broke asf and had a hard time making money out of raid to pay for the 50 bajillion repairs. People would cry if you ran ret pally and wanted agi gear. Eve was an absolute perfect example of this. We had to run officer fits on roaming ships in pvp though the step down versions were 10x cheaper and only 5% less valid at most (for some builds) Getting turned down from groups non stop because your build isn't what they think you should have even though you know the fights better then anyone they have recruited which is 100% better off then your 2% loss in optimized dps.
You are 100% correct when it comes to full loot games. Every full loot game player base I talk to, misses the point in why their game dies. If you want your game to die and then be the king of a graveyard, then behave that way. Even rats have figured out you have to "throw" some fights in order to get people to continue to play with you. However, to maintain smaller rats as viable playmates, the larger rats employ strategic maneuvers. They intentionally lose or "throw" the wrestling match about 30% of the time. If they lose less frequently, the smaller rats retreat and prefer to play exclusively with rats their own size.
I remember back in cataclysm I had just gotten my holy priest to level 70 and then not 2 weeks later they introduced a patch that completely threw off any kind of rotation I had built or outright flip-flopped this effect or that effect. That was too much change at one time. They should have changed variables of one or two abilities for each hot fix or major patch. It was too much and I wasn't having fun anymore
Absolutely this. Someone probably said "Holy Priest is too powerful" and then the response was "Let's do items 1-97" Instead, they should have developed items 1-97 and said "Which 5 will be the biggest/fastest/most impactful changes?" Then introduce those. If it fixes the problem, great, you don't need the other 92. If it breaks it terribly, then well those didn't work, take 4 out put 4 new ones in and see where that puts you.
About enjoying the alpha 1 of ashes there was no optimization YET it was 1st playthrough so nobody else had the time to figure optimization YET. Soon after release every single quest will have its own wiki cuttion on time.
Yes, but there are two types of optimization there. There is optimization done by the developer where you get a ! to tell you a quest giver, then you get a line to tell you where to go, then you get a Q over the mobs you have to kill. That is radically different than people writing a wiki article on every quest. One I can ignore (the wiki) the other I cannot (the dev driven piece) unless the developer puts in an option to turn all that off.
Issue is players in mmo are VERY competitive especially in games like archeage when you are either competitive or you get clapped by everyone there is nothing in between. So if you want to remain competitive you are forced to optimize. Only game that dealt with it somewhat well was guild wars 2 but then agin once the raids came you would not be allowed to go on raid unless you've proven you are expirienced enough creating a gate where new players would not expirience the content.
Very well said, especially about Archeage. You could always figure out which healers were running the creative builds, because they died. The healers running the unkillable cleric builds would watch everyone around them die, and then the enemy would leave because there was no point.
As of late, there's been a frenzy in the MMORPG world akin to a squirrel on a caffeine high-everyone's clamoring for optimization. Sure, it's understandable. Who wouldn't want smoother gameplay, fewer bugs, and faster loading times? It's like upgrading from a horse-drawn carriage to a Tesla Cybertruck-undeniably thrilling. However, just as you wouldn't want to zoom through a scenic road trip at lightning speed, over-optimizing the journey within MMORPGs can zap away the very essence of the experience. Picture this: it's 2024, and you're embarking on an epic quest in your favorite virtual world. You're armed with your trusty sword, a bag full of potions, and a head full of dreams. But instead of savoring each moment, you're hyper-focused on min-maxing your character, crunching numbers like a mathematician on steroids. Suddenly, the game loses its magic, becoming nothing more than a glorified spreadsheet simulator. Remember, an MMORPG isn't a quick sprint like a Fortnite match-it's a marathon through a fantastical realm filled with dragons, dungeons, and potentially awkward social interactions with fellow adventurers. So, while optimizing performance is undoubtedly beneficial, let's not forget to smell the virtual roses along the way. After all, the journey is where the real treasure lies.
Absolutely it is. I'm a huge fan of being able to optimize my gameplay. I like to pour over DPS meter logs and figure out what works better than others. I like to figure out is there value in this skill that nobody seems to take. However, I admit that while this is fun, the results of this fun turn into toxicity. Because a Cleric running Hand of God and Burning Wrath can generate 907 HPS and 99 DPS while a Cleric Running Hand of God and Salvation generated 987 HPS but only 21 DPS we don't want you running Salvation in our raids and if you do we kick you out. That's the unfortunate side effect of optimization, then there is no room for run, only the optimal.
People are modding MMORPGs, into Idle play games. Group finder and fast travel (teleporters not player cast and not flight/ride like boats and airships ) Took the need for social out of games. Now you either get "gg" or "go kill yourself, you suck" and no one interacts.
I 100% agree with this. You don't play the game, your mod plays the game, you play the mod. There is a line between allowing gamers access to API (Application Programming Interface) to do really cool things like character sheets offline or even the Eve Online Killboard (zkillboard.com/) and then making 3rd party add-ons that play the game. And then there is the discussion of the dreaded DPS meter.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork "DPS Meter" - Just wanted to comment on this. When WoW Classic Era first came out, after a while of raiding my guild actually banned DPS meters. Know what happened? The group progressed way better and had a much better time. The DPS meter was without doubt a hindrance to both fun and progression.
I have a really long story I tell about DPS meters on my show, but the punchline is this. DPS meters are a tool, much like a knife. How you use it is up to you. Sadly, most MMORPG players will use a DPS meter like a weapon to harm other players, instead of like a scalpel to heal and make better.
I mean people meta game the fuck out of all of gaming not just mmo's, ff7 rebirth wasn't even out and people were already making guides for the "best builds for an single player rpg in a freaking demo lol. I will admit i use guides to, but only after i beat my head against something for a bit and only then do i see what is what. This to me a bigger community issue and less of a game one, so unless a dev can break the meta ever time one comes up it's always gonna be an issue.
100% this and I laughed so hard at the FF7 rebirth meta guides. You need a guide to play FF7 Rebirth? What happened to going in to the game with maybe, maybe the Brady game guide and just having fun?
Group finder is great and was one of the best things they added to wow. In fact to see how you feel about it, go play another mmo for a week and try to get into dungeons or PVP groups. Easily hands down one of the best quality of life things ever added into mmo's. I would also go one step further and say that the raidfinder was a great thing too. I used to be a hrdcore raider, it's tiring. I LOVE being able to go into raidfinder and walk through a window lickers version of the raid and get some items better then what I could normally get but still nothing compared to the better items. Perfectly happy with a nice tour of the content in that way, you get to see the content yet not spoil the machanics of the harder versions and not have to deal with the trials and tribulations that come with hardcore raiding. Go back to classic wow before they had pvp group finder. We used to sit for hours trying to get a 5 man together on the horde side to be able to 5v5 in WSG...Lots of forum back and forth etc. Think to other games where to this day you have to find someone to either carry you through lower dungeons or bypass them because no group que's...
Yeah I think people need to relax on the hate of a "group finder" and really talk about the other parts. In FFXIV they have a duty finder which you literally queue into and get randomly matched for random content and then when you are done it dumps you right back out to where you started like the adventure never took place...and let's be honest, did an "adventure" really take place? Meanwhile, a party find for dungeon XYZ that puts you in a chat channel to talk to people probably isn't a bad idea as long as it doesn't come with the automatic teleport and automatic return.
Eve was a classic example of massive toxicity but also sportsmanship. You had trolling pirate groups but you also had a ton of great pvp groups who never trash talked and would give "Good Fight" messages in chat. I remember getting caught in my dominix once on a gate in AAA territory. It was 8 vs me and I tanked like a champ for quite some time. Once I was in my pod they paused a second before seding me to my clone vat to say "You tanked like a champ dude good fight" then poof i was in my clone vat lol. I used to take an iteron 5 with 2 points and a basic cloak fully loaded 50-60 jumps through neut or hostile space and live! That is what pvp zones bring to gaming, the thrill of that and the thrill of knowing someone could drop on you at any time in gaming....priceless.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork I also wanted to say that I have been watching since Archage because your content and information is usually 100% spot on and like the title of this post "needed to be talked about" Thanks for doing what you do man!
Because I think we can both agree the state of MMORPGs is terrible and we both want to see that improve and there are only a few logical ways for that improvement to happen.
Agree with the point about grouping mechanics. Putting people together for the most part is fine, teleporting them instantly takes way too much from the game. In terms of balance, I once again think PoE is a good example. In that game there are guides out there for builds that can destroy all content, and that's fine. However there is also a lot of room for making your own unique build, that in most cases will be absolutely flawed. There will be content you are unable to do. BUT, because you are designing it yourself and trying to find out what works, it's fun. It provides a sense of achievement. It also lets you play the way YOU find to be fun.
Also, a suggestion for a topic if I may. "Are Flying Mounts bad for MMO's" - I'm personally staunchly against them, but I always find the discussion interesting.
I think you are spot on with the idea of "there will be content YOU are unable to do"
People forgot that we used to fail in RPGs. We would fail dice rolls, and we got a laugh out of it, especially with Baulder's Gate 3 recently. What do you mean I fail on a 1 only and I happened to roll a critical fail.
I remember back in FFXIV, we had days when the only healer we could find was a Red Mage. Anyone who played that game will tell you how perfect everything had to be with a RDM healer since they lacked the pure HPS output of a White Mage. But you took what you could get. Now, there were other days when we would have a RDM healer but a Ninja tank and that worked as a combo.
In FFXIV I think the only dungeon I've ever failed to complete on a first try was "The Burn" What happened to failing dungeons? What happened to needing to go back to the drawing board and try again? What happened to needing to build a balanced team to clear content? Now, because everyone wants participation trophy success, we can face roll all the content with ease.
And I will absolutely do that video on flying mounts. Its on the sticky notes so it will get done in the next week or so.
Flying mounts destroyed world PVP in wow. Such a shame.
just got to 3:32 I believe you are spot on. Where is the time for socialising? why would I? it's only wasting time I should spend grinding.
This is a very important issue you have highlighted! I hope that AOC and future MMOs can include something like a tavern in which you gain xp for socialising; for interacting with players and staying there. some incentive to get involved with a space in which the community is present and relaxed; not necessarily chowing through content
I think without socializing any game in development (Ashes of Creation, Pantheon, Pax Dei, Chrono Odyssey, Archeage 2) is doomed to be a remix of a remaster of a repeat of the games that have failed.
I was once a 0.1% player who only engaged with the most toxic, try hard people on my server and loved every minute of it, then I left high school... Now I'm much older with 4 wonderful kids and my own business, Intrepid needs to focus on players like us to rake in some serious cash and player numbers. We far, far, far out number 1% players and the start of the game needs to be fun from the absolute beginning because we really don't have much free time at all. If Intrepid want some of the dad money, it needs to be fun. I don't care if getting to max level takes 3 years - if it's fun, I'll keep paying the subscription.
I don't think its just Intrepid, I think every MMORPG in develop needs to focus on this.
There is nothing wrong with making content for the 1%. Mythic Raids or Extreme Raids or something that gives them a shiny cosmetic, bragging rights, or even an in game statue outside of the dungeon, but don't give them power that can be used to stay on top.
I also love what you said about taking 3 years to get to max level. We really need to make the leveling process take a year or more to get to max level. We need to put the focus back on the journey and not the destination. In table top D&D you can be a level 8 character and have a blast. In Baulder's Gate you end at level 12.
I like the Commissions boards in AoC because they are ever changing, and time based but allow for many people to take the same quest. Which leads them to the same area to do the same thing. This IS a group finder, without the need for people to look for a group. Like Arche Age, you go there, you do what you can solo until more people show up and then you group up with whoever shows up. Sometimes you walk into the area to start doing what you can and the already their group instantly invites you to join. What? you don't have a healer in the group? well then you didn't have one solo, at least now you're killing things faster. These temporary groups eventually lead to name familiarity, the same people who live in your node keep doing quests, and you keep grouping up with the same people. This leads to social interactions with other players that can increase the size of your guild, or maybe you join their guild, alliances between guilds, or even becoming friends with other players who call on each other to complete serious content down the road. "Hey, did anyone get a friend request with that ANYCLASS we were adventuring with yesterday? we really need him." Nudging solo players into situations where they end up being in a group they didn't intend to be in, it just happened.
I do agree with that. I ended up picking up a lot of people into my newbie guild in Archeage from farming in Diamond Shores or farming for Hiram items.
A potential problem with the commission board system is that while it *might* be good for grouping people up, I'd be willing to bet what is more likely is that groups with a tank, healer/support, and damage dealers will already be grouped up to do the content since it is Node content and they will go out into the world. This *might* lead to some solo players being able to form groups, and it *might* lead to solo players being picked up into other groups, however, since we have optimized the fun out of games what I think is more likely rather than less likely to happen is groups will pre-form, do content, and then go off together to do other planned content.
I do remember keeping a pen and paper next to my computer to write down the names of people who were good in PUGs. I almost always friended them if I wanted to adventure with them again at a later date.
Sadly, people form their little jeesh of players they like and then don't venture out of that group.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork for sure there's going to be established groups roaming and not looking for other players. BUT there are going to be smaller guilds and solo's around and this gives them the chance to meet with others. From my experience, most friend groups are 4-6 people, which leaves room for at least a couple of pugs. My plans are to RUN far away from the starter beach of rock melee battles and get outside of the potential Vassal state of nodes too close to the starting area. Out where I live, there will be less larger guilds, as I intend to avoid the Castles (at least at the start) and other major PVP POI (as many solo players and small guilds will). The demographic will change depending on where you decide to live, but at least we won't have roof campers :D
Yeah sadly with the massive changes they had in the map size and the total number of Nodes dropping, I think the idea of moving as far away from the 4 starter areas as you can to avoid other guilds isn't going to work unless you are a medium size guild.
The large guilds are going to move into a strategic location to control Nodes closest to the castles so they can be castle contenders.
The medium size guilds are then forced to move into the areas where they have a chance to be relevant.
The 4-6 man size friend groups won't even be a fully party for doing content, and I think there is a high chance of them getting left by the wayside. You'll basically be struggling to always have to fill those last 2-4 slots to flush out the party.
Not only have we optimized the fun out of mmo's but the players themselves have created the issue by PVP'ing everyone off the servers in now dead full loot games. Making raids so stupidly op that you have to hit the exact rotation of an exact build to be able to even compete in your raids. Why was classic wow so great...because no one knew how everything worked. Builds weren't optimized to death for super swanky key or raid runs. Like everyone saying warriors were OP not one warrior said that in actual classic wow. When wow opened warriors were absolute dogshit in pvp it wasn't until several patches later they got their due. I know this because our poor raid tanks were broke asf and had a hard time making money out of raid to pay for the 50 bajillion repairs. People would cry if you ran ret pally and wanted agi gear. Eve was an absolute perfect example of this. We had to run officer fits on roaming ships in pvp though the step down versions were 10x cheaper and only 5% less valid at most (for some builds) Getting turned down from groups non stop because your build isn't what they think you should have even though you know the fights better then anyone they have recruited which is 100% better off then your 2% loss in optimized dps.
You are 100% correct when it comes to full loot games. Every full loot game player base I talk to, misses the point in why their game dies. If you want your game to die and then be the king of a graveyard, then behave that way.
Even rats have figured out you have to "throw" some fights in order to get people to continue to play with you.
However, to maintain smaller rats as viable playmates, the larger rats employ strategic maneuvers. They intentionally lose or "throw" the wrestling match about 30% of the time. If they lose less frequently, the smaller rats retreat and prefer to play exclusively with rats their own size.
I remember back in cataclysm I had just gotten my holy priest to level 70 and then not 2 weeks later they introduced a patch that completely threw off any kind of rotation I had built or outright flip-flopped this effect or that effect. That was too much change at one time. They should have changed variables of one or two abilities for each hot fix or major patch. It was too much and I wasn't having fun anymore
Absolutely this. Someone probably said "Holy Priest is too powerful" and then the response was "Let's do items 1-97"
Instead, they should have developed items 1-97 and said "Which 5 will be the biggest/fastest/most impactful changes?" Then introduce those. If it fixes the problem, great, you don't need the other 92. If it breaks it terribly, then well those didn't work, take 4 out put 4 new ones in and see where that puts you.
About enjoying the alpha 1 of ashes there was no optimization YET it was 1st playthrough so nobody else had the time to figure optimization YET. Soon after release every single quest will have its own wiki cuttion on time.
Yes, but there are two types of optimization there.
There is optimization done by the developer where you get a ! to tell you a quest giver, then you get a line to tell you where to go, then you get a Q over the mobs you have to kill. That is radically different than people writing a wiki article on every quest. One I can ignore (the wiki) the other I cannot (the dev driven piece) unless the developer puts in an option to turn all that off.
Issue is players in mmo are VERY competitive especially in games like archeage when you are either competitive or you get clapped by everyone there is nothing in between. So if you want to remain competitive you are forced to optimize. Only game that dealt with it somewhat well was guild wars 2 but then agin once the raids came you would not be allowed to go on raid unless you've proven you are expirienced enough creating a gate where new players would not expirience the content.
Very well said, especially about Archeage. You could always figure out which healers were running the creative builds, because they died. The healers running the unkillable cleric builds would watch everyone around them die, and then the enemy would leave because there was no point.
As of late, there's been a frenzy in the MMORPG world akin to a squirrel on a caffeine high-everyone's clamoring for optimization. Sure, it's understandable. Who wouldn't want smoother gameplay, fewer bugs, and faster loading times? It's like upgrading from a horse-drawn carriage to a Tesla Cybertruck-undeniably thrilling. However, just as you wouldn't want to zoom through a scenic road trip at lightning speed, over-optimizing the journey within MMORPGs can zap away the very essence of the experience. Picture this: it's 2024, and you're embarking on an epic quest in your favorite virtual world. You're armed with your trusty sword, a bag full of potions, and a head full of dreams. But instead of savoring each moment, you're hyper-focused on min-maxing your character, crunching numbers like a mathematician on steroids. Suddenly, the game loses its magic, becoming nothing more than a glorified spreadsheet simulator. Remember, an MMORPG isn't a quick sprint like a Fortnite match-it's a marathon through a fantastical realm filled with dragons, dungeons, and potentially awkward social interactions with fellow adventurers. So, while optimizing performance is undoubtedly beneficial, let's not forget to smell the virtual roses along the way. After all, the journey is where the real treasure lies.
"Life ain't a track meet (no) it's a marathon"
- Ice Cube
For some people it's fun to analyze the data and optimize their gameplay.
Absolutely it is. I'm a huge fan of being able to optimize my gameplay. I like to pour over DPS meter logs and figure out what works better than others. I like to figure out is there value in this skill that nobody seems to take.
However, I admit that while this is fun, the results of this fun turn into toxicity. Because a Cleric running Hand of God and Burning Wrath can generate 907 HPS and 99 DPS while a Cleric Running Hand of God and Salvation generated 987 HPS but only 21 DPS we don't want you running Salvation in our raids and if you do we kick you out.
That's the unfortunate side effect of optimization, then there is no room for run, only the optimal.
People are modding MMORPGs, into Idle play games.
Group finder and fast travel (teleporters not player cast and not flight/ride like boats and airships ) Took the need for social out of games. Now you either get "gg" or "go kill yourself, you suck" and no one interacts.
I 100% agree with this. You don't play the game, your mod plays the game, you play the mod.
There is a line between allowing gamers access to API (Application Programming Interface) to do really cool things like character sheets offline or even the Eve Online Killboard (zkillboard.com/) and then making 3rd party add-ons that play the game. And then there is the discussion of the dreaded DPS meter.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork "DPS Meter" - Just wanted to comment on this. When WoW Classic Era first came out, after a while of raiding my guild actually banned DPS meters. Know what happened? The group progressed way better and had a much better time. The DPS meter was without doubt a hindrance to both fun and progression.
I have a really long story I tell about DPS meters on my show, but the punchline is this. DPS meters are a tool, much like a knife. How you use it is up to you. Sadly, most MMORPG players will use a DPS meter like a weapon to harm other players, instead of like a scalpel to heal and make better.
I mean people meta game the fuck out of all of gaming not just mmo's, ff7 rebirth wasn't even out and people were already making guides for the "best builds for an single player rpg in a freaking demo lol. I will admit i use guides to, but only after i beat my head against something for a bit and only then do i see what is what. This to me a bigger community issue and less of a game one, so unless a dev can break the meta ever time one comes up it's always gonna be an issue.
100% this and I laughed so hard at the FF7 rebirth meta guides. You need a guide to play FF7 Rebirth? What happened to going in to the game with maybe, maybe the Brady game guide and just having fun?
Group finder is great and was one of the best things they added to wow. In fact to see how you feel about it, go play another mmo for a week and try to get into dungeons or PVP groups. Easily hands down one of the best quality of life things ever added into mmo's. I would also go one step further and say that the raidfinder was a great thing too. I used to be a hrdcore raider, it's tiring. I LOVE being able to go into raidfinder and walk through a window lickers version of the raid and get some items better then what I could normally get but still nothing compared to the better items. Perfectly happy with a nice tour of the content in that way, you get to see the content yet not spoil the machanics of the harder versions and not have to deal with the trials and tribulations that come with hardcore raiding. Go back to classic wow before they had pvp group finder. We used to sit for hours trying to get a 5 man together on the horde side to be able to 5v5 in WSG...Lots of forum back and forth etc. Think to other games where to this day you have to find someone to either carry you through lower dungeons or bypass them because no group que's...
Yeah I think people need to relax on the hate of a "group finder" and really talk about the other parts.
In FFXIV they have a duty finder which you literally queue into and get randomly matched for random content and then when you are done it dumps you right back out to where you started like the adventure never took place...and let's be honest, did an "adventure" really take place?
Meanwhile, a party find for dungeon XYZ that puts you in a chat channel to talk to people probably isn't a bad idea as long as it doesn't come with the automatic teleport and automatic return.
Eve was a classic example of massive toxicity but also sportsmanship. You had trolling pirate groups but you also had a ton of great pvp groups who never trash talked and would give "Good Fight" messages in chat. I remember getting caught in my dominix once on a gate in AAA territory. It was 8 vs me and I tanked like a champ for quite some time. Once I was in my pod they paused a second before seding me to my clone vat to say "You tanked like a champ dude good fight" then poof i was in my clone vat lol. I used to take an iteron 5 with 2 points and a basic cloak fully loaded 50-60 jumps through neut or hostile space and live! That is what pvp zones bring to gaming, the thrill of that and the thrill of knowing someone could drop on you at any time in gaming....priceless.
@@ParadoxGamingNetwork I also wanted to say that I have been watching since Archage because your content and information is usually 100% spot on and like the title of this post "needed to be talked about" Thanks for doing what you do man!
@@KegstandOG I got a long way to go to build my brand back up. I appreciate your long term support.
Get out of my head, J.
It blows my mind how we can disagree so vehemently on some other topics yet be so in sync with our gaming takes.
Because I think we can both agree the state of MMORPGs is terrible and we both want to see that improve and there are only a few logical ways for that improvement to happen.
Promo-SM 🏃