Valve Shouldn't add New Weapons Yet [Tf2]
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- Опубліковано 26 лют 2023
- Or do it who cares anymore I don't work there, it's not my job, I work at the post office in the package damaging department where I throw random boxes against a serrated wall
#tf2 #valve
![[TF2] Weapons and How to Do Counterplay](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/jHnZaXTHUqs/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Weapons and How to Do Counterplay](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Unused Weapons](/img/n.gif)
Im sick of seeing the same pool of useless weapons for the past 6 years. Theres no excuse for weapons to still be bad. Fixing that is top priority over new content.
Terrible take, even bad weapons can have a point, and tons of niches can be filled
@@calebbarnhouse496 how the actual shit do you people exist, who in the hell would complain about a bad weapon being made better I don’t understand
@@calebbarnhouse496 what niche does the gas passer fill?
Mvm doesn’t count if that wasn’t obvious
@@Small_child_punter It lets you cover people in gasoline
@@thunderspark1536 What do we get for doing that?
asking for new weapons while so many sit broken is like buying more garbage cans instead of taking out the trash
Valve has had a poor track record with balancing weapons.
when the store for new garbage cans is closed forever and the garbage trucks have been rendered inoperable
I feel like Medic suffers the most from the lack of viable options, the only weapon slot you have variety in at all is the medigun slot.
all mediguns are worse than vac though
Buff the amputator and overdose and I’ll be happy. I use em in casual games because they’re fun but would love a buff
i main medic and i totally agree with this. The meta for medic has been the same for like what, 10 years now? We need a new primary mostly, as for melees i dont think we need any new ones.
definitely true, they really need to make the syringe guns more viable and give em a buff
@@nikolasbananaguyy i feel like a better way of doing this would be through rebalances of old weapons
It's crazy how the short circuit went from overpowered to basically useless to balanced but annoying to fight against
its still useless for its intended purpose, only good for fighting soldiers 1v1
Wasn't it first useless then op in that order?
does the primary need something like "ammo gained on hit" as well as "crits vs wet players" or the Widowmaker like "plus 10% more damage vs foes targeted by the sentry" stats to be better?
The Widowmaker stat that give more damage needs a slight increase in damage up to 15% or 20% to make it better.
@@jarmosavolainen1184 Correct, the V1 short circuit was just a really slow airblast that just deleted projectiles and didnt knock players back.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 how so? Still seems good against demo spam if you have a buddy to help you kill the guy.
"Which is why Belgians are no longer welcome on this channel." Fucking laughed my ass off when I herd that.
I'm pretty sure people just associate new weapons with the game being alive and enjoying some developer attention.
Bingo
Agree
tf2 fans celebrating after valve adds 5 weapons and the meta stays the exact same
Yeah it’s just something spicy and new. Being stuck with something so long, people often would rather just get a replacement than put in the effort to maintain what’s already there
If you want to understand the current ecosystem of current TF2 weapon balance, look no further than scout's achievements.
There's like 6 different achievement BEGGING scout to use the sand man, one of the most iconic weapons in TF2 history, yet the only person who would EVER use that thing in its current state are the people being forced to for achievement hunting purposes.
It really just shows how far from grace it fell
(Tho there's other useless weapons with achievements too, but most of those read as gimmicks whereas the sandman seems like it ACTUALLY expects it's owner to use it.
To be fair, the original sandman was super busted and unfun to fight against. That being said it really should be given some love. Stun mechanics can just shove off though.
valve explaining why they added 4000 backscatter achievements
@@SirProtagonist Sniper's more busted and more unfun to fight against than the old Sandman, yet Sniper's escaped nerfs.
@@muddashucka9743 yummy those salty tears
@@cheddargoblin2140 Nah fam, I'm one of the ones that abuses Sniper.
I think many of us would prefer the existing weapons get balanced instead of new weapons being made. May the Valve Cat God bless us brothers.
Please for the love of God nerf the Direct Hit, nobody should be able to two tap a lvl 3 sentry.
@@socialaccount0000 I honestly dont think the direct hit should be nerfed
and possibly make said weapons worse?
@@socialaccount0000 Direct hit takes skill
@@socialaccount0000 Direct Hit is a definition of a good sidegrade.
Having the tf2 team re-work weapons rather than new ones is seriously a great point, hopfully they do that. Great video!
team? it's 1 guy
1.5, they brought someone in for the summer lol
The only weapon I want is a Primary for Heavy that isn't a Minigun because every class has an alternate playstyle but him.
he has steak heavy, ever wonder why youve never seen him ingame?
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 The problem is that, well he has a Lotta vulnerabilities because valve looked at a melee only class and thought "hmm let's give the sandvich he uses to switch to melee only A 25% DAMAGE VULNERABILITY, with that you only have the effective health of a battalions backup soldier (AND YOU'RE MELEE ONLY UNLIKE SOLDIER), don't even get started with the warriors spirit, I mean, 30% damage vulnerability? That's just terrible
If we were to fix this by adding a new weapon, maybe replace the minigun with a shotgun that deals less damage than the family business in exchange for like 100 extra health and maybe movement speed but that could also be replicated by changing the steaks vulnerability into a resistance.
It would be cool to see some way fat scout be actually viable
6 million weapons in only 3 updates? There's no way that many weapons can be made!
Procedural generation
@@O5MO they would still have to model all of them
@@skipthefox4858 i think someone made an ai that generates 3d models
@@stefanandrejevic2570 after a while it would be outlandish abominations (not in a good way)
Being impossible to do 6 million somethings hasn't prevented people from believing in it
11:31 best transition and editing ive seen
It's a decent argument, and I mostly agree, but boy howdy are the downsides skipped over.
While there are weapons that are so bad or so underutilized that, yes, nearly everyone would prefer a rework -- the pompson comes to mind -- there are plenty of examples in TF2's history of a rework being the thing that breaks the weapon. Some of them are even mentioned in this video as examples of weapons that need further reworking.
The old BFB was better when it didn't have a way to lose boost, the old scorch shot was less oppressive when it didn't mini-crit, even the old liberty launcher was better when the downside was clip size and not damage.
The diamondback's current brokenness was caused by this very process -- the original only gave crits from buildings, which made it useless if the enemy team didn't have an engineer, so they let it get crits on backstabs -- which is like letting the neon annihilator get crits on airborne players since not every map has water.
Valve is famous for overtuning weapons and breaking perfectly fine ones years after release, and very rarely do they ever revert a change. While changing weapons is a more practical tactic for sure, it is not without risk, and saying "well you can't please everybody" misses the mark.
i stopped reading when you said howdy
@@pogobod2128 Do you turn off the game when engie says it too?
@@appliedatoms7066 no
if you dont trust valve to balance weapons, why trust them to make new ones?
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Well for one, who says I trust them to do either?
For another, I do actually think it's easier to make new weapons than fix old ones. Say I'm a valve employee trying to fix... let's say I'm trying to fix the sandman, since they kinda ruined it when they nerfed it into the ground. I now have a serious question about which direction to take the weapon. Do I replace the health loss with something else, making it a utility weapon that is almost never worth using over a literal piece of wrapping paper? Or do I go back into the weapons history and try and give it some of its old job back? If I'm doing that, do I make it a combo weapon? A weapon focusing on stun? With how many ways this weapon has been over time I'm guaranteed to piss someone off, and it's not like I can talk to the original designers because they're long gone. And if I make the weapon too good or too bad, I've replaced one problem with a different one and annoyed everybody.
Now let's say I want to, instead, create a new gun. Maybe I think engineer needs a damage-dealing secondary for when he's using the mini-sentry. What can I look at for inspiration? Well, he's got a lot of old west-themed stuff going on, what if I give him an old-style six-shooter, with high damage, but a wild spread on successive shots, a lower firing rate than the pistol, and make it the only revolver that doesn't use a speed-loader? That right there is a gun designed for a specific purpose, and as long as it's not busted I haven't ruined anything since the balance will be intact.
Finally somebody that understand how wacky Tf2 workshop weapons are, like damn they are lit OP or straight garbage. Knowing that a new weapon concept will be added to the game will only be used during it's release date then forgotten.
I think this explain the lack of new metas in competitive and the same repetive cycle of choosing a better weapon just for the sake to not be in disadvantage.
And about specific weapon that only had one use they have become bad because players get better at countering it, is not because they are boring for example the razor back.
tbh even if you rebalance already existing weapons, the comp players won't touch it anyway
wether it was banned or not it's not part of pre-existing meta so why would they
You're absolutely right about the fact new weapons would just bog up the situation worse.
But don't forget that weapon rebalancing has to take account for every possible situation and not just one in a vacuum like most balance mods and youtubers have put their ideas for. Most of those ideas typically are either self-serving, too obnoxiously complex, Or only works on paper.
One of my ideas for the shortstop further emphasizes on its shove since they wanted to make it a thing so badly. But take some inspiration for the left 4 dead shove, It comes out almost immediately, has a short cooldown, doesn't affect your ability to shoot, knocks the infected back, and slows them down for an easy shot, Shortstop does mostly the opposite with its slow windup, relatively long cooldown, it doesn't push far enough for it to matter, it prevents you from shooting, and reloading prevents you from shoving (everybody's got auto reload, it came free with you getting good at tf2), So in a vacuum it would be decent for putting some distance, or giving yourself a clearer shot, But in reality its just a meme. the gun itself is decent for its range and lack of incredible falloff.
So the changes are obvious. Widen the shoves range, Make the shove come out near-instant, allow you to shoot near-instant out of a shove, let the shove cancel reload, slightly reduce bullet falloff even further, increase the knockback by a smidge, (not to the degree of the F.A.N), add a true slowdown effect and not whatever the hell the sandman and bonk-atomic-punch are doing, It should be duration based and not distance based so the slow holds.
What would this provide to the shortstop... It would let you interrupt enemies easier, Line up shots properly, make it a decent "get out of my face" tool and help with risky escapes, do proper knockback with it so its better for environmental kills, and it'd be more decent in a fight ever so slightly.
It's a niche change but the purpose of it is to take the idea that made it what it is, Conceptualize it better, And focus on making it actually achieve and reward the action properly in its entirety but without making it TOO good that it overshadows another weapon in some regard.
That should go for almost every unlockable weapon. Most of the ideas are solid but half-assed in execution so they can barely achieve what they were even made for.
epic stun mechanics for scout, what happened last time he had one of those
also problem with shortstop isnt the shove, the weapon itself is harder to use than stock with no reward, less damage, more accuracy but with damage falloff its only slightly better than stock at mid range
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 *cough cough increased fire rate cough cough*
Remove the shove and give the Shortstop its old healing bonus. Boom. Weapon fixed.
There's really no saving the shove. It's a mechanic that only ever comes into play if you have bad positioning on the most mobile class in the game. The entire concept doomed it to be almost useless to anyone who's even semi-competent at Scout.
Scout is the last class that benefits from a shove mechanic. It's a dud mechanic right out the gate, there's no point salvaging it.
I feel like the problem with the Diamondback is that it's trying to be like the Frontier Justice, while it should be like the KGB. You should get momentary guaranteed krits after a sap or stab, so there's more insentive to put yourself in situations where you can use your gun, like taking risky stabs behind a crowded chokepoint
The Kunai could also use a small rework, especially considering casual. Maybe it could give the user their target's _missing_ HP as overheal rather than their current HP, plus a base value like 40 (The first stab with it would already bring the spy to 110 HP, just enough to survive a rocket or a grenade)
So for example, if you stab a soldier with 90 health, you get 110 HP (200-90), and with the base 40 points (totalling 220 points) that would already put you at the Kunai's max overheal
But stabbing a soldier at full health would only give you 40 HP
That way you get a MASSIVE reward for picking off wounded targets, and the enemy wouldn't have to deal with the suddenly invincible 210 HP gigaspy using the DR damage reduction just because their F2P heavy was scratching their nose or something
Why backstab a guy you could easily shoot out? You understand the point of a backstab is the instant kill right? Not the finisher?
"Why yes my sniper rifle can only headshot a target with 50 or less HP for 150 damage, what do you mean a bodyshot would do the job just as well?"
@@nikolaitheundying His redesign literally provides a direct and powerful incentive for why you would stab someone you could otherwise just shoot out. It would make the spy make plays they would otherwise have 0 incentive not to use their revolver for, in addition to making the weapon far less punishing for the rest of the enemy team just because the spy dropped a random F2P on their rollout. I don't even necessarily agree with the proposal as-is but you don't even seem to understand the intent behind it.
balance patch + new weapons would be so sick
Valve needs to work on making each weapon more unique and not just small stat changes, I remember when the enforcer was just a more powerful revolver. Weapons should do something other weapons in its slot can't so. For the Diamond back, it currently feels like a different flavoured Ambassador. Maybe instead of guaranteed crits for each backstab, we pull from the source game its from and give it guaranteed explosive rounds whenever you backstab. This gives it a new role by allowing you to damage crowds, allows it to damage sentries much easier without the engineer knowing there is a spy around, gives it its own identity, and it stops it from overlapping with the Ambassador.
That's a really cool idea actually
Yeah, I don't understand why they give love to sub-classes like Demoknight and not Gun Spy, the Enforcer was the perfect gun for that, you need to be undisguised (which will put you in the "must kill" list of the enemy team) and you need to be at a medium range to kill others with a pistol, it changed completely how you played the class, and it was OP before because the Dr and Spycicle combo was broken before, now it is not
@@leonel392 Well since it was broken because of the combo how should we make it so the enforcer is a good damage dealer but so it isn't busted?
@@leonel392 I agree, I wish they had applied the same design philosophy to the other classes. They took a defense mid-range class and turned him into a close quarter melee class. Imagine if they had embraced alternative sub-classes that radically change their playstyle: A solider who is 100% support and buffs his team (A "rocket" that shots a flag that buffs team members around it, you could fire it at a choke point), a spy who's focus isn't about sneaking and backstabbing but instead saboteur and planting traps (spy watch is turned into a multi c4 pack that acts like the Scottish Resistance), or an engineer who losses his sentry but instead can build portable walls that team members can hide behind
I can't wait for that Super Castlevania IV review. That's coming, right? Right? Awwwwwww
Reworking a weapon is basically always the better idea than adding a new one since Reworking a weapon, depending on how much you change it, can be pretty much the same thing as adding a new one, at least it has the same feel as "aw sweet i need to try that now"
I share a similar sentiment, but for me adding new weapons is straight up mandatory for certain classes. Like Medic, sure you can fix up some of the Syringe Guns, but at the end of the day they'd be a Syringe Gun. Obsolete to the crossbow. Same with his Melee.
Or Engineer, whom only has 3 secondaries. Sure, they're all drastically different but I don't really wanna use any of them. Plus the Wrangler exists.
Or Spy only having 2 Sappers when there's the possibility of having more creative Sapper ideas.
Or Engineer again, only having 1 PDA, that most players bypass with commands anyway.
I'd really like to see different options for classes that don't really have those options yet, or some unlocks just replace the default loadout. At the same time, I'd also love to see weapons like Sandman revived. Iconic weapons that got nerfed so hard that their play rate is basically at 0%.
Also, who says they can't do both? I know it'd be a lot of work but they also had a LOT of time to just tweak some numbers in the code.
mini dispenser shouldve been added with a bigger model (it being so short means most people would ignore it)
right now "battle engineer" doesnt exist, you cant battle and play engineer at the same time. youre either playing worse scout with mini sentries, or stuck in the backlines doing chores
i think a quick, cheap, reliable source of healig would fix that
as for jump pads, not too keen on those, wouldnt work at all with some maps
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 Battle Engineer exists. 110%. After watching a ton of Uncle Dane's stuff I started taking a lot of his advice to heart and well, playing Engi as a more aggressive class is not only a lot of fun, it's also completely viable.
That being said, I do kinda wish we did get more mini buildings. Being able to set them up faster than normal would actually give a reason to use the Gunslinger over the Jag.
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 You can battle and engineer at the same time. Put your supportive buildings down, and start blasting. Boom. You are battle engineer. Simple.
I would much prefer if they focused ONLY on rebalancing as of now. Getting Valve to do so much as re-code statistics for weapons is already an absurd asking for a company like them, so I'd rather them go all in on one rather than half-ass both.
@@firedolphin7621 It's like I said, it's a lot of work but they also had a lot of time to do it. And if they do rebalances, they're just tweaking existing code. It's something the fans can already do on community servers with little coding experience.
On top of that, in terms of new maps and cosmetics, they're already letting the community do that for them. Thier workload is already as light as it could possibly be. The least they could do is actually work on new stuff for the game.
If you wonder what an alternate universe where valve adds lots of weapons from the workshop, play tf2 classic on custom weapon servers... It's hell.
I haven't watched your video but I am excited to see your opinion on it. I think if Valve makes any significant changes they should just focus on making every weapon that currently exists as balanced as possible and that each weapon has a use, would love a new use for the Gas Passer.
Reworks should be prioritized over new weapons, but in the past reworks have been really bad. The whole reason Baby Face's Blaster is where it's at is because of a rework.
The only weapons I trust Valve to rework are completely useless ones no one uses anyways. That way if they ruin whatever tiny niche the weapon had, it doesn't matter.
You mentioned Liberty Launcher for instance. It's a weak weapon, but not a useless one. It's basically a training wheels weapon for new Soldiers. Easier to hit enemies, more forgiving rocket jumps, and an extra rocket for when they miss. If they rework it, there's no guarantee it'll have any use.
They reworked Vitasaw (which was okay in the first place) and now is complete garbage. Why melee someone to save 15% of your ubercharge when you could get 25% of an uber each hit instead? At least before the rework a flat 20% was saved without having to melee anyone. I used to use this weapon before the rework since I preferred keeping my distance rather than meleeing people as medic.
Remember when Shortstop used to give a bonus 20% healing so it could pair with Mad Milk or Candy Cane? Well it was replaced with the shove.
Enforcer used to give 20% dmg bonus while UNdisguised, now it's 20% for a single shot while disguised. It was a boring weapon before, and a useless one now.
The Crossbow didn't used to give Ubercharge. Why buff medic's top primary?
Scorch Shot used to do less damage, less knockback, didn't minicrit players, and had a 20% smaller radius than it does now.
I don't trust valve to rework mediocre weapons.
tfw all bfb needs is tweaking to the number values
Every other source of healing Medic has gives Übercharge for healing his teammates. It only makes sense to make the Crossbow give Ubercharge.
The Crossbow isn't overpowered, it's just that every other Syringe gun is underpowered.
Man I miss the old new panic attack. It had such a unique gimmick that made it fit in well compared to other shotguns. Now it's basically just stock.
Baby faces too, the boost meter was a dumb idea from the start imho, but taking damage just means you start going faster and then stop after only a second. Weapons in tf2 work best when they promote different playstyles, so for a rework I kinda hope they play into the trade off of vertical movement to horizontal. If I was in charge: Max boost speed is the new default for BFB scouts. Disabled double jump while equipped, suffer a speed penalty to the effect of an unboosted BFB upon jumping for X(Probably like 10) seconds.
I think the lower base speed of the BFB is actually pretty integral to the weapon, mainly because it's a very soft Spy buff (is that scout a spy, or just running the BFB?). I'd suggest something more like:
+Dealing damage builds Boost (capped at 100 damage, as it is now)
+Run speed increased with Boost (top speed identical to current top speed (173%))
-33% Clip size
-20% Base move speed (Making him equal to Medic and Spy speed at base(107%))
-10 Boost per second (might need tweaking; could go as low as 6 maybe)
-User can't double jump (Probably unnecessary)
Now the Scout's fast and harder to hit while he's actively fighting, but much weaker if you can get the drop on him. You get a different, hyper-aggressive play style of constantly trying to deal damage to keep the boost meter topped off.
I do not really understand why it can't be like the Soda Popper, you move slower, you have less clip size, but if you right click now you are Sonic temporarily and you do not lose 90% of your boost because Eric.Mendez.2004 decided to shoot you with his damn pistol from across the entire map
the old panic attack had the issue of... literally being unable to function as a secondary
a simple fix would be to just reverse it, its always loaded like normal, fires fast, but holds only 4 shells and reloads slower
as for the current stats, give them to the reserve shooter, since its so situational
This is an excellent argument for valve not adding weapons
My proposed rework for the "bad"/OP weapons:
The Diamondback:
*A shot on an enemy player marks them and reveals them and their health to their team (within a radius). You can only reveal 1 player at a time with this weapon. The marked player is given a status icon to tell them that they are marked. Being marked reveals you for 5 seconds then fades.
*(Alternative) The spy can mark up to 3 players, revealing them to himself and their HP for 0 damage (while disguised). The outline of the revealed players can be seen through walls. The spy can then press the alternate fire key to reveal them to his team for 5 seconds. Firing with this weapon does not break disguises. When revealed, a player is given a status icon on their HUD to tell the they are revealed. If un-activated, the effect fades after 10 seconds.
-25% damage (30 base damage)
-25% slower firing speed
The scorch shot (this one is just annoying):
-No mini-crits on burning targets
The razorback (I'm iffy on this one but it would remove the weapon as a pure spy counter):
*The razorback will absorb some damage from behind and break after sustaining 150 total damage, recharging in 60 seconds or when touching a resupply locker. Backstabs only do 80% of a sniper's max HP as damage and do not disable the spy's weapons.
+15% damage immunity from behind (does not apply to critical hits)
-60% max overheal on wearer (can only be buffed to 150 with the razorback equipped)
The Short Circuit:
-Cannot gain metal from ANY source while active (to prevent players from being able to spam it on payload carts)
The Pomson 6000:
+Projectile does not collide with teammates
+25% damage bonus
+25% projectile speed
The Manmelter:
+20% reload speed
Syringe Gun Basekit:
*Darts heal friendly players at base damage ( 100 hp/s out of combat, 30 hp/s in combat. Stock heals at 72 hp/s & 26 hp/s respectively. Crossbow heals at 40 hp/s and 90 hp/s with least/max ramp-up)
*Healed HP with syringe guns do not grant uber charge
Proposed Diamondback changes to keep it similar to its old design:
backstabs or saps grant crits until disguised or cloaked.
This would make it a follow up weapon, rather than a surprise frontier justice of sorts
Better suggestion, can’t fire crits while disguised.
10:48 Leave my prized Huo-Long Heater alone, Sheila will not be touched because Sheila is perfection
I absolutely agree with the need to revisit abandoned weapons before adding anything new. _BUT,_ the issue with Heavy’s melee options is that he’s slow and always has a minigun. He needs a primary that basically turns him into heavyknight but is more interesting than just shoes with extra health and speed.
It’s basically the same issue with demoman. Each substantial melee option yields a reduction in health, so you either have to at least add a shield at the cost of stickies or also add the shoes to cancel the health reduction while also increasing speed so you can actually get in range for a melee hit.
A heavy primary concept I came up with some years ago is essentially a power suit that is effectively something like booties and a shield combined, with the shield’s charge being reworked to be a constant speed boost running off of “fuel”, the suits ammo. The power suit gives constant damage resistance and crit/minicrit cancelling, and while fueled it also offers increased movement power, melee power, and push resistance (stacking with base heavy push resistance). But, if you run out of fuel, you take a huge cut to movement and melee capability.
Where things get really interesting is which secondaries and melees you combine with the power armor. Sure, you could take a shotgun and the FOS and be chonky scout, but you could also take the steak and bear claws and go wild, as the armor would effectively cancel the downsides of those two items.
I have been playing since 2008 and you don't know how agonizing seeing the same pathetic list of weapons.
After watching your video, I entirely agree. I believe that the (bad) weapons that we already have should be changed/reworked to make them actually usable, and after that THEN maybe add at least 1 weapon for every class. (Or just the classes that have the least amount of weapons for a certain slot like Engineer's secondary for example).
The only update I can agree with is the rebalance the weapons that are rendered as useless/debuffed after the jungle inferno update. Gotta love to see the sandman trick back like the good ol' days
make cleaver crit slowed players and the sandman immediately goes up from f tier to c-b
10:48 I'm actually a big pomson fan. It just has to do the tiniest bit more damage. I'd gladly sacrifice those random spy and medic side effects for it to just be a slow-projectile, high-damage weapon, which I wouldn't consider a rework but would fix the weapon for me. It feels so good to land shots on it.
The reason you see quite a few people ask for new weapons is because they probably don’t main soldier, pyro, or demo, they have quite a few more weapons than other classes, heavy has 2 shotguns (3 if you include stock), 1 is on multiple classes and doesn’t have heavy in mind, and the other is just stock but more shots less damage, family business isn’t bad it just doesn’t help much more with heavy’s weakness than stock, and he’s the only class without a burst fire weapon, engineers only pistol is stock, not only do medics syringe guns suck, but they also all shoot the same way and all kill in the same time other than maybe the overdose if you can find a way to snipe with them, snipers only unique primary is the huntsman, he only has 2 smgs and the unlock shoots so slow it’s not worth using, some classes have surprisingly little choice, rebalancing will definitely help some of classes, but others even with rebalances and all being viable end up with very few choices just because a few classes have all the interesting unlocks
With all these weapons and cosmetics I feel like we need more loadout slots like at least 2 (E and F)
Yeah but there are some ideas for weapons that you can't get by reworking other weapons.
Even if the curret weapons we have were better that still would encompass all possible gameplay styles. Not to mention new weapons making new styles.
the engie has 3 actually separate secondary weapons. it hurts to say that every time. and don't even get me started with the poor medic... but as much as it pains me, you seem to be right.
Holy shit, I love the writing and editing of this video so much.
The short circuit used to have an alt fire the deleted projectiles in a radius around the user.
Give the homie some viewer interaction so this video gets recommended mire
I'm only really for adding new weapons if the existing pool in the slot is next to barren, like Engineer secondaries or sappers, otherwise it's better to balance what we have
An idea I had for the Diamond Back would be to make it similar to the Frontier Justice.
You get a build of 3 mini-crits, when it gets to 3 you’re awarded one crit in storage. Sapping a building will give you a number of mini crits based on its level, so a level 1 sentry will give you one mini crit while a level 3 gets you a full crit. Teleporters however I feel would only give one mini-crit per teleporter since I’ve always used them to farm crits. Backstabs would reward you with 2 crits, and similar to the Kunai if the victim’s health is too low you’ll only be rewarded with 1 mini-crit. When you fire, it shoots as many crits you have stored, followed by any mini-crits you have.
The dynamic would be instead of just replacing crits with mini-crits, you have a risk & reward system where the spy will have to decide if they’d like to use up their precious mini-crits to have a second means of defending themselves before they get to build up their crits. Will you risk these using up these mini-crits that could give you a full crit, either missing or end up not killing your target, or will it be enough damage to help you win a tight situation?
Could have diamondback Craig’s decay over time, which would be really interesting.
Just give the Diamondback the same downside as the Frontier Justice. Halved clip size. Maybe a reload speed penalty also, since it can reload the entire clip at once unlike shotguns. Could give it a long range damage penalty like the ambassador also.
Great vid to boost your channel ❤ I feel like this is an actual issue that people aren’t talking about
I reckon the Diamondback can still keep its unique identity if the crit degrades over time. Somewhat inspired by how overheal returns to base numbers over time, surely the Diamondback could benefit from a similar mechanic. That way the Spy can still be rewarded in the same way but he cannot infinitely store that crit and must either become reactive by using it or lose it entirely. Perhaps the damage boost can completely disintegrate when cloaked.
I underwent that personal project myself on notepad. It was a lot of fun making original designs to fix existing bad and overpowered weapons and to take inspiration from CTF2W before Taste of Vanilla.
I really wish we had more new weapons. Like at least offer the chance for the community to add weapons every other update
The Diamondback could be another do more damage from behind weapon considering it's another weapon with back in the name (Aside from the Back Scratcher)
they should give the medic the tide turner instead of his medigun, that'd be funny I think
7:22 i believe is just implementing a nice drop off for the crit. avoiding him being able to snipe enemies and make the gun fire slower forcing the spy to pic their enemies
An idea I had for reworking the diamondback would be a simple low-% damage increase for every backstab and sapped building.
Like, give it a -30% damage penalty to start, but have it increase by 5% of stock every interval. By 6, you're on par with the stock revolver. By 9, you're dealing damage equivalent to mini-crits. By 12, you're essentially dealing full crits.
But, until you get those first 6 intervals, you are effectively left without a revolver. You could even have it so that your damage stocks decrease if you don't get a stab or sap within a certain amount of time, so it gives you incentive to _stay in the action_ and play aggressively to keep it up.
IMO we should revert or reduce the nerfs to the ambassador and then put the nerfs that the ambassador got (damage falloff and inaccuracy at a distance) to the diamondback…
the only justifiable case that can be made for a new weapon being added is if a weapon gets split, similar to the equaliser, and made into something more unique
Lets see a spreadsheet of all the existing weapons and suggestions on how to rework them, theres got to be one out there
It would be cool to see a diamond back rework being like 2s of crits after getting a backstab (kinda like the mvm upgrade)
A handful of ideas:
Cleaner's Carbine. Not to ruin cleaner's carbine and a knife, but I say for each headshot with your primary you get 2 guaranteed crit bullets on the carbine. only 3 headshots, you've got 6 36 damage bullets. Great for self defense.
Diamondback: 20% damage increase on current clip for each backstab or sap. True to the original design, without just being better ambassador. Ten backstabs and you've got 6 crits. Which is much more fair than 6 backstabs for 6 crits. And it means you can't save them up endlessly. A maximum of 6 damage increased bullets.
Razorback: The spy backstab thing, but also resistance to damage from behind in general. That'd make it viable. Not sure the numbers, I'm no perfect balancer, but I think that's all it'd need. Allows you to run away from heavies and the such with a higher survival rate, and still defends against backstabs so the spy is forced to give you a bit of warning, allowing you to maybe survive, a feature that would be great with any other bonus. I hate weapons that fuck over one class and one class only.
Gas passer: Gas stays around longer, and slows enemies. When coated in gas, afterburn gained from pyro weapons on gas-covered classes deals minicrits, and all afterburn from damage while gas-covered lasts for 2x time. Allows for personal benefits while still fucking over anyone you can't reach in time. Area more effectively denied due to slowing effect.
Bison: JUST GIVE IT BACK ITS OLD DAMAGE HITBOX PLEAASE.
3:03 You take that fucking back
Yeah, you're right, 6 years is not enough
Blue Moon was 5 years ago, almost as long as JI. I'd be surprised if we ever get a weapons balance patch again. (As opposed to just bug fixes for certain weapons)
Also, thank you for freeing us from Belgian Waffles.
An interesting nerf for the diamondback could be to make it so every time a spy cloaks or disguises with crits he loses 1 of them or you could do a ramp up nerf where the more crits you have the less cloak you get and the longer the smoke cloud stays on the spy after a disguise
7:00 I disagree, there is one way to make the Diamondback balanced. Give it a unique downside, and I have one in mind. Give it a unique debuff, call it Exposed. If you have the Diamondback equipped (doesn't have to be out) and are shot while disguised, you are instantly exposed of your disguise and cannot cloak or rediguise for 3 seconds.
A cool rework for the diamond back could be giving it a damage bonus after every backstab like the bezzarsbargin
It's like knitting something with dropped stitches. You can't make it a good knit piece by adding more rows, you gotta go back and fix those stitches
This reminds me of a period of time where valve had kind of a combination of both adding and reworking weapons.
Where they would literally add weapons with 1 positive and 1 negative stat to just rework them later, proof of this is the pain train exept that it never got a rework, but abunch of weapon were born this way, like the tomislav, winger, persian persuader, liberty launcher, started with 2 stats and then changed to the weapons we know today.
For the diamond back I would do something like this:
Crit damage has drop off similar to the Ambi
While you still keep the crits from stabs and sapping
I don't know, this is just an idea I had for it
Thats a cool idea so now you can't just snipe people from across the map.
that requires reworking the crit mechanic tbh, as they don't have falloff by defininition
@@ortxxxm But isn't there already crit falloff on the ambassodor though? Can;t you ctrl+c ctrl+v that? Or is it because one is aheadshot the other is a normal crit?
My idea is that after firing you can't cloak for a few seconds. In it's state its just an instant fuck you on anyone who rolls up. Let's say someone comes up on you after you get a backstab, typically you cloak and run but with the diamondback you just murk the guy then cloak and run. If you made it not have cloak after firing you could still murk the guy but now you have made a hard choice. You have now forced yourself to go postal dude or die trying. It'd make it riskier to use while still retaining the idea of it's design
@@mariustan9275 You can copy and paste the amby’s crit falloff.
I've used the sun on a stick since the atomizer got reworked. Every time you burn to death right next to a health kit remember that the sun on a stick's fire resistance could have saved you.
I could fix tf2, valve should hire me. I can't code, but I'll learn.
I just want new weapons that can add new play styles that complement previously existing weapons, like a throwing king for spy that rewards you for getting a backstab by granting you the opportunity to throw the knife and get a ranged backstab which you can combo with the Diamondback to get two crits for another kill, giving you a triple kill reward for a well timed and aimed ambush. Encouraging a playstyle that relies on ambushes.
Or a sapper that cuts your health in half at the reward of double sapping speed that you can pair with the Big Earner and the Cloak and Dagger to basically play an adrenaline junky that rushes in to kill and destroy as much as possible and then get out as fast as you can (yes, I am aware that speed buffs don’t stack)
For the diamond back, I’ve had the idea for a while that reworking it to act like the KGB would be great. Rather than stores crits, have temporary crits for say, 6 seconds. This would fix most issues of the diamond back.
I want heavy to be a junkie and to just run in to the field with fists, steak and something that makes him faster or stronger
Diamond-Back idea: all backstabs/sapper destroyed buildings give you a minicrit each, but for every 3 or 5 minicrits, it would instead give you a standard Critical Hit (basically a 2 part crit meter, left side shows how many minicrits you have and the right side to show how many full crits you have)
"were at the beach! lets make sandcastles!"
that one guy after someone acts rude : 4:08
the diamondback or maybe even L'etranger could have an increased flat damage bonus over stock, as well as a draw speed bonus, but a holster penalty and movement speed penalty, as well as being less accurate while moving, and possibly a small firing speed penalty (not enough to create a winger situation where by consequence stock has a higher damage per second) giving the spy a more interesting way to use the revolver in combat situations not only for knife-centric spy playstyles, but also giving a more interesting way to play a gunspy.
how to turn spy into the r8 revolver from csgo
10:46 I unironicly use the Sun on a Stick for it's afterburn resistance, which actually safed my life countless times.
But I still get your point, Im the exception that proves the rule.
HEY! I use the liberty launcher over stock, and i use gunboats with my liberty launcher
also, some classes don't have the variety for a slot, like how engineer has only 3 secondaries and sniper has 4 melees
4 melees is a lot, Spy only has 2 sappers and 1 is dogshit. Also the liberty launcher isn't the worst, but I did say it right after describing weapons that were "Not particularly efficient", which is very apt for the Liberty Launcher.
sniper has 1 melee, the bushwacka. buf the others and nerf the bushwacka
I think a good rework for the diamond back would be reduce its clip size from 6 to 3 and make it so instead of storing crits for use later you just get a couple seconds of crits on backstab. That way it's good as a combo tool for stabbing one enemy then shooting another instead of just being filled with crits that the spy can pull out of his ass at any moment.
For the Diamondback, I think a decent rework would be to change it to Minicrits, but instead of making it one shot per backstab or sap, successfully pulling off one of those simply grants repeatable minicrits for a set amount of time. That way it's a more tangible reward than a mere 12% upgrade to stock for a single shot, while also giving better counterplay since when the killfeed shows a spy play, it means you have to look out for a few seconds for the potential minicrits that go away.
The only exception of course is backstabs with the YER, but a spy running that thing honestly deserves them at that point.
Maybe the daimondback could hold crits only for a while? That way the crits allow you to combo after a backstab, but you cant hoard crits. Maybe making them decay after 10 seconds?
Weapon in Steam Workshop: Exists
People with "Stats" discussions: *I am speed*
To be fair, while there are some I still dream about (that huge range slow turning shell sentry), most workshop weapons are complete messes, and broken good or broken bad. (Yes even my dear sentry. It would be so oppressive at long ranges ...)
And I think I read somewhere that Valve would not (never?) take weapon submissions. They make their own, which I respect.
My two cents would be to make the Sandman ball stun again but only on moonshots, and have it crit on a headshot. The Ambassador should crit without damage falloff on headshots, but only minicrit at long range.
bro all i want at this point is a rework to the dead ringer that actually lets me fake my death.
Maybe they could rework the diamond back so that the first shot on an enemy does a critical hit(or mini crit if that’s too powerful) if you shoot them from the back. After all it is called the diamond back, as if shooting the back of a player is much more valuable
Idea: Make the diamondback ONLY able to shoot when you get the crits, as in... if you don't get a backstab or sap a building you lose the ability to use a revolver.
That would be a huge risk vs reward weapon
That’s just dumb, spy loses his only form of self defense when a backstab fails which is bad.
@@thebushbros6626 again, risk vs reward, just like pyro looses his only defense against explosives with the Phlogistinator with no airblast.
Like you just said "when a backstab fails", aka "When you take the risk and fails"
Actually not bad
Imma be real: Before spy gets anymore balance at all, he needs ALL of his bugs fixed. Half the reason he's so bad right now are because of the unintentional 'counters' caused by bugs (disguise kit) and oversights (spawning wallhacks). They need to fix the basic kit of Gabens favorite class before he gets anymore buffs or nerfs.
The Enforcer is in a very weird state right now. It's bad, not just because it's stats aren't great but because it's riddled with bugs! Bugs involving the main gimmick of "piercing" which don't actually do what the weapon says it's supposed to. So I was thinking _maybe_ they should fix all the bugs with the weapons first and see if they're any more viable (some probably wouldn't be).
Also, something you mentioned near the end with "festives and australiums", _I_ would love to see more weapons be made compatible with War Paints! The Eyelander, Flare Gun, Hitman's Heatmaker, Quickiebomb Launcher, Big Earner, hell even the Southern Hospitality all look like they'd look great with War Paints applied to them! The Ambassador even has files that make it possible to use them on, but they never fully turned on compatibility for some odd reason...
Considering the number of bad weapon academy videos, yeah I'm convinced.
bro’s actually spitting facts
edit: you could say this for tf2 in general, and just general game philosophy, minecraft, the worlds best selling game kind of did this, they looked at old elements of the game and improved on them
i think this is a good direction for tf2, for the whole game really, theres a lot of inconsistencies, like sniper having 2 gloves on their viewmodel when their playermodel has 1, spy’s viewmodels being outdated, outdated hud renders, etc
we dont need new content, we need optimization and clean up of the game
it's funny, I honestly don't think the minecraft devs have done this very well. a lot of the core mechanics in the game (farming, brewing, enchanting to an extent) still feel pretty half-baked to this day. minecraft has a separate plight from tf2, though, which I'll call the "live service sandbox syndrome", where they're afraid to make cool changes to extant mechanics because it might break peoples' projects or something, and that is a surefire way to piss them off. they're sort of trapped in that way
@@johnes4882 minecraft has so many mechanics that fleshing out any of them would make them tedious
just look at turtle and frog breeding, ridiculously intricate compared to normal mob breeding, and guess what, its extremely obnoxious to do
@@dkskcjfjswwwwwws413 I don't think there's a catchall rule there. I agree that mob breeding is one thing that doesn't need to be more convoluted but "fleshing out" a mechanic does not mean it has to be more confusing or tedious per se
for instance, farming for food is not very interesting at present because steak is simply the best food, unless you are the kind of person to gun for golden carrots. if they added some delicious apex item which is very strong but requires ingredients from a bunch of different sources, that'd be a step in the right direction. everywhere you look are threads of incomplete design motifs and a lot of them could be picked up if mojang is brave enough
Even assuming we get 'fixes' to existing weapons which I do agree is much needed.
I do feel like Heavies MIniguns lack diversity, and Medics mediguns could do with some more diversity (ie: could you imagine a medigun that only fires in bursts? projectile based? is a beam? ubers that effect other stats like speed, reload, ammo, etc), etc.
Rework the liberty launcher, that extra rocket means nothing and the damage reduction means everything. what good is one extra rocket if you can't kill with the other four?
I want a Heavy update, but you're right. I'd settle for a balance update.
I had a discussion about this with a friend years ago and the conclusion we got to was that the only two classes that deserve new weapons are Heavy and Engineer.
Heavy has no real alternative playstyle other than the goofy Fat Scout and "Melee Heavy". While most of the actual strong subclasses in TF2 always synergise all 3 weapon slots in case of heavy subclasses he always uses only 2 with Minigun being completely redundant. That's why heavy should get an alternative primary slot item (either a weapon or not) that would enable his subclasses so that heavy may at least not be the most boring class in TF2.
In case of Engineer it was mostly about Engineer secondaries. Mind you, we discussed this before the Short Circuit rework. It dumbs down to the fact that Engineer had no good secondaries except for Wrangler and the pistol was either used in Battle Engi as for help or for spamming when spychecking. I've heard recently that some people wanted Wrangler nerfed which in my opinion is a very bad decision. The reason Wrangler seems so strong is because it's so much better to the other secondaries and any somewhat competent Engineer will use it. A much better solution would be to provide better alternative secondaries for Engineer. I really liked the Short Circuit rework because it was partially a solution to that but it's still not enough. The problem with the Wrangler is that it's overplayed and thus seemingly annoying and "too strong".
Soldier for example can have 3 different banners for his secondary but you rarely ever see anyone complain about things like Concheror (which in my opinion should be nerfed) because most of his other options are viable and therefore solider can have a varying playstyle. So why shouldn't engineer have new options for his secondaries to lower the playrate of Wrangler and make it less annoying.
What community server are you playing in. I dont see some of the maps you show in the gameplay video
I play exclusively on Uncletopia
spy does not need a sapper btw. I wonder what cool new secondary weapon people came up with?🤔🤔🤔
no way you called blue moon a bad beer
Blue moon beer is good man
I would love some mobility with engi cause det-fury pyro makes me so happy with its skill based playstyle and slight but risky mobility, same as demo with the very high risk mobility, when I go back to engi it just feels less fun moving around like a pleb, and no shooting my own ass doesn't count
Maybe give engi an unlock that allows him to shoot himself with his sentry but take no damage from it, like the jumper items for soldier and demo.
@Marius Tan engine mobility wasting his sentry is just not a fun mobility, and following those weapons the sentry wouldn't damage enemies either, at least not while wrangled.
He needs a separate item for the fluid mobility, sentry jumps and using the dispenser are both nice but they are also tedious and expensive to use, I don't think he should gain any more mobility than pyro gets from the detonator, and it absolutely should hurt to use, it just makes moving more fun especially when running around the back, limited use as peel, giving combat engine a more agro vibe, not making him properly dps because of how limited it is, but saving you from having to walk fuckin everywhere, I figure a secondary or even melee would give good freedom, being able to have wrangler a shotgun and a mobility boosting melee, or trading bullet jumps for a more useful mobility at the cost of not being able to abuse your sentry. A primary might work but that could also be redundant by just not being a useful weapon thats got a mobility gimmick
An idea that came to mind was giving him something fitting the whole area denial and engineer vibe being trip mines as a secondary, fairly limited, slow to use since you'd need to place and shoot, multi purpose too since it's a weapon but very much defensive, yet still able to be played aggressively, planting them behind enemy fronts to hit them as they run off, I figure it will focus less on damage and more on knockback, hurting enough to make a difference but not enough to outpace a demo's sticky, and they need to be shot or triggered to go off, not remote detonated
It's finicky and literally the first thing to come to mind, making it not feel out of place is simple and tricky, it would work like a building I figure, either cheap to place, on a timer, or given an ammo limit, I assume there will be a limit to how many can be up, probably 2-3, depending on the aesthetics they could act as Molotovs to really feed into area denial, instead of relying on knockback, there are lots of ways to deal with fire so it's not a major threat and it's paired with a decent hit of damage so it may finish an enemy off, but it could easily be fixed, knockbacm gives openings for enemies to use your traps as their own mobility which is interesting counterplay, the knockback wouldn't be thaaat useful to your team unless planting this shit onto payload tracks to knock enemies off of it, or get funny cliff kills, fire is more practical, and makes it a better alternative to losing your range from the pistol or wrangler, being able to lure enemies into traps where you can trick them into bad situations, pushing them into traps you set up behind them, using the explosive charge to jump around in prep, at the cost of a decent chunk of health especially if fire is applied to you too, and it makes engi nests a much more explosive target for demo, I wonder if enemies shooting the mines would make them damage both enemies and allies, or at least which weapons would have that exception to punish poor placement or a bunkered engi nest with a spicy surprise, I figure damaging an engi standing near his mine is obvious, it's his buildings I am not sure on, I think that's where exceptions with certain weapons would factor in, and spy could turn maybe even capture the mines making him able to harass engi even more, there is a lot of potential, plus even without the focus on knockback enemies can use it to launch themselves away, meaning a heavy can tank a mine and get well out of your effective range, then mow you down if you tried to flank them, better counterplay then the wranglers shield and murder beam combo.
It does everything for me aesthetically which is always a plus, gameplay wise it's diverse and fun tonplay with and against if you understand it, and it opens up so much shit, battle engi now has scary mobility and can cut you off with a mini and landlines while the widowmaker turns you into mincemeat, bunkered engi nests have now got self inflicted weakpoints, a spy turning your mines probably wouldn't give you much warning they'd look like enemy mines but you aren't paying attention, then boom you are on fire alarms going off as all your buildings the damage, he doesn't even need to sap them that explosion would be a dinner bell for the demo who knows you aren't paying any attention tryna figure out hat just happened, the sappers going down before you are backstabbing, enemies shooting those mines with pistols could kill you if you weren't paying attention, potentially even de s troy your nest so careful placement would be encouraged, those mines becoming a nuisance not just to you but your team if your medic runs to the dispenser but the mine was turned and suddenly boom you are now knocked a bit away on fire with a decent chunk of health missing and no idea what happened
I already really like this idea ngl, gimme a few hours dedicated I could probably figure out all the details cause this sounds so fun, slow and restricted enough you won't become a dps, fluid and flexible enough you can do all kinds stuff with em, fair so enemies can play against it and meaningfully engage if they play properly, they fit the aesthetic, the downsides and upsides make it an interesting pick, losing all real range for better defence and mobility, a scouts worst nightmare a spies playground a desperate enemies escape route, I think it's got real potential
@@ParaFox404 Wow... that's a lot. But I agree that building mines would be cool. But would they function like stickies or are they landmines?
Definitely landlines, either needing proximity, a laser, or an enemy stepping on them, otherwise being shot to detonate from a distance, this works for you but also for enemies, so they can be destroyed by any weapon and a little caution, taking longer to destroy for enemies than for you.
I figure pressure plates and lasers are easier to avoid to the point they may only catch oblivious or distracted enemies, proximity would need a bit of clever design to be fun to play against but would be more effective since they are easier to set off, and they all could easily fit the engi aesthetic, making proximity fair is the trick since it's less obvious where it's range is when compared to a claymore laser or landmine button, I figure beeping and a light that only warns you when you get close to the line, and a slight delay on the explosion so it will tell you it's about to blow up, meaning you can stumble closer and take more damage or back off and potentially avoid damage, if you are close enough to make it beep then you are going to take some damage and be given afterburn if another team mate sets it off, if you shoot it, or if the engi shoots it
Their HUD should tell them when someone's in range, and how many mines they have, but maybe not specifics on each mine, so they know a spy converted a mine or its been destroyed but not which one, or they know someones in range if he shot a mine, but not which mine is being contested.
@@ParaFox404 A bomb that warns you if you step near it? I'm not sure that's an effective weapon, but then again sentries beap so ok. I think goving engie information on who is nearby mines is kinda a more powerful sticky. Are these manually detonated or detonate themselves? I think mines that activate themselves that can do self damage to mine-jump would be annoying if you accidenrily step on one. Maybe manually detonate.