Persona 5 and Jungian Psychology - Masks, Major Arcana, and Meaning - Extra Credits

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  • Опубліковано 20 лип 2024
  • Did you know Persona 5 is based on Jungian psychology? Learn about the symbolism behinds the masks and major arcana! These concepts can be surprising helpful when analyzing or even writing games.
    PLUS: Don't miss the limited edition Gamevolution shirt from this episode! Only available until July 13: store.dftba.com/products/limi...
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  • Ігри

КОМЕНТАРІ • 1,2 тис.

  • @extrahistory
    @extrahistory  7 років тому +401

    Did you know Persona 5 is based on Jungian psychology? Learn about the symbolism behinds the masks and major arcana!
    PLUS: Don't miss the limited edition Gamevolution shirt from this episode! Only available until July 13: store.dftba.com/products/limited-edition-gamevolution-shirt

    • @GunnarWahl
      @GunnarWahl 7 років тому +18

      I feel so much Junger now! it's amazing!

    • @Tyrael007
      @Tyrael007 7 років тому +4

      id say all or atlest most of them do take quite alot of jungian psychology to heart, the 4th game delves alot more into the shadow then enything els, what i like about persona 5 is that its asentely forced theripy for all the targets :) id love to se what jordan b peterson wod say about it after playing it.
      ed: 2:07 lost opertunety to mention kanji :)

    • @GunnarWahl
      @GunnarWahl 7 років тому

      0utta S1TE but I had so much pun saying it.

    • @TheTrueLeafless
      @TheTrueLeafless 7 років тому +10

      It is wrong to say that only Persona 5 is based on it as actually the entire series is.
      Persona 3 was about facing death in one way or another and Persona 4 about the Persona you present outwards and the extension of how others see it, but overall Jungian psychology is always a mayor theme.

    • @acore271
      @acore271 7 років тому

      Extra Credits I WANT MORE PERSONA 5

  • @Small_Leviathan
    @Small_Leviathan 7 років тому +1500

    A minor correction and addendum to the Tarot bit: You don't need to have a matching Persona equipped, you just need to have it with you. While this is a small difference I think it opens up a different interpretation than the one you proposed: The Protagonist doesn't need to change himself to match the Confidant he's interacting with, but carrying with him a Persona matching the person he's talking to grants him a better understanding of them, making it easier to help the Confidant work through their issues and reach their goals, the entire point of the Confidant storylines.

    • @luisgusta
      @luisgusta 7 років тому +31

      Your comment should be more upvoted because that was exactly what I felt while playing.

    • @animewatcher102
      @animewatcher102 7 років тому +16

      Small Leviathan I somewhat agree but the lyrics of the song Beneath the Mask in Persona 5 seems to fit EC's interpretation.

    • @ShinigamiNTW
      @ShinigamiNTW 7 років тому +52

      The two don't have to be mutually exclusive though. I noticed that the protagonist in 3,4 and 5 tend to condition their responses differently depending on the person they're talking to (like the kind of approach that works on Majima wouldn't work on Ann for example). The better understanding you have of someone, the more accurately you can fashion a 'right' response.

    • @bruno17289
      @bruno17289 7 років тому +6

      Small Leviathan. Dont agree because in previous games you had to equip it, but it was annoying, you dont having to equip it is just a gameplay changed to make the game less anoyinh

    • @SonnyFRST
      @SonnyFRST 6 років тому +5

      Nope, I clearly remember only having the personae in 3/4 to get the boosts active.

  • @Lenwulf
    @Lenwulf 7 років тому +398

    I'm pretty late here... But I figured the removal of the mask was actually symbolic. Imagine the example with the main character summoning his persona Arsene for the first time. He's essentially convicted for a crime he didn't commit by "shitty adults" and sent to Tokyo to basically start anew for the year. He's treated like trash by the people around him, until he finally runs into someone who'll actually give him the time of day... Ryuji. Of course, they end up in Kamoshida's castle where they're captured and sentenced to death. It's here that Arsene speaks to him, asking him if his attempt at saving that woman back at his hometown was really a waste and if he is truly sick of what he's seeing before him and desires to fight back. He's given a choice, watch Ryuji die or fight back. When the mask appears, he's not ripping off the mask to summon Arsene... He's forcefully removing his complacent persona to reveal the rage and rebellion he feels in his heart. The blood that we see is also symbolic, showing that this kind of change so suddenly is painful... But his smile shows that being true to yourself is worth it.

    • @mistyeyes101
      @mistyeyes101 6 років тому +32

      The Kentucky Gamer That's a beautiful answer! Especially with the smirk he gives off even with blood all around his face, I knew that symbolized satisfaction.

    • @ordinaryshiba
      @ordinaryshiba 4 роки тому +11

      I think that the mask being ripped off represents the separation of the true person and their persona. In the gameplay, if you rip off your mask, the persona and the person becomes different entities.

    • @caolanochearnaigh9804
      @caolanochearnaigh9804 Рік тому

      Wow, that's DEEP.
      Like, Mariana Trench deep.

    • @andrewdreasler428
      @andrewdreasler428 Рік тому

      Exactly, the Jungian Persona is the mask we wear to 'fit in' with society. When we rebel, when we fight back, we rip off the mask of 'complacent member of society' and reveal our TRUE face, that of the Trickster, the One Who Breaks Society's Rules.

  • @Blizzic
    @Blizzic 7 років тому +410

    Those references in the Tarot section though

    • @funkyweapon1981
      @funkyweapon1981 6 років тому +16

      Somebody hates a certain Mega Man mini-boss.

    • @Degdreams
      @Degdreams 6 років тому +35

      They all reference JoJo...

    • @mrlee_0019
      @mrlee_0019 6 років тому +4

      NANI???

    • @pixelbrander9228
      @pixelbrander9228 6 років тому +5

      Death was uncle death from let it die

    • @acronym0523
      @acronym0523 6 років тому +5

      Nah The Magician was from Yu-Gi-Oh
      (dark magician girl)

  • @Brian-tn4cd
    @Brian-tn4cd 7 років тому +190

    I knew about Jungian psychology before this game, and I always thought the characters rip off their Personas to show that they can be their true selves without the mask.

    • @KitaYsabell
      @KitaYsabell 7 років тому +29

      Further, I think it has to do with realizing that they ARE wearing a mask, and that the power of persona has to do with wielding that balance of private self and public appearance rather than allowing oneself to believe that the public appearance IS the private self. Likewise, unless I'm missing something, the mask removal only occurs the first time they summon their persona- when they awaken to the awareness of the mask and step outside of its limitations for the first time.

    • @archerestarcher
      @archerestarcher 7 років тому +5

      If you look carefully during battles, I think they do take their mask off?

    • @ultimatedespairgamer6722
      @ultimatedespairgamer6722 7 років тому +2

      Dharengo yea I was kinda surprised he missed that with how in depth the rest of the video was, also not noting that the velvet room is also a form of the consciousness literally the place you draw out the symbols and myths of society

  • @lightspeedasH
    @lightspeedasH 7 років тому +347

    this episode is brought to you by Edogawa Sensei from Persona 3, i'm not kidding he covers pretty much all of this and a bit more

    • @doggiemaina11
      @doggiemaina11 7 років тому +18

      Oh yeah, the P4 Golden extras.

    • @Evilriku13
      @Evilriku13 5 років тому +6

      except that P2 did first *cough*

    • @haruhisuzumiya6650
      @haruhisuzumiya6650 5 років тому +2

      And persona 4 golden

    • @franuwu6840
      @franuwu6840 2 роки тому +2

      Basics of magic and spirituality like its a history class. I actually loved his lessons

  • @NecrophiliaPro
    @NecrophiliaPro 7 років тому +122

    The characters in P5 don't have the spirit of rebellion, they are the spirit of rebellion. Tearing off their nice to the public mask to reveal their inner rebel.

    • @spindash64
      @spindash64 7 років тому +13

      NecrophiliaPro
      What could possibly be more rebellious to society than removing the masks that we all make ourselves wear? I love it

  • @Nate-ik8cf
    @Nate-ik8cf 7 років тому +158

    Did you know, in-game, why most Shadow's taking the form of Mythological Creatures is because Shadow's in nature, are manufactured by humans and the easiest way they can manifest themselves is in the form of what humans subconsciously know of folklore.

    • @danilooliveira6580
      @danilooliveira6580 7 років тому +9

      I'm not sure if that is the explanation they give, I mean, in P3 and P4 they are not demons. but that actually makes sense anyway

    • @Eibon
      @Eibon 7 років тому +18

      It is the explanation they give in the game. It is explicitly stated in Persona 5 that Shadows take on the visages of mythological figures/creatures because that's how the human mind perceives their concept.

    • @KorboQ
      @KorboQ 7 років тому +6

      Pretty sure that's just an excuse for them to write the demon negotiation back into Persona. It's definitely the reason that the personas in all the previous games were mythological figures, but the shadows didn't used to be.

    • @Nate-ik8cf
      @Nate-ik8cf 7 років тому +4

      It's merely mentioned though by Justine and Caroline and the line does require you to 'search' for it. Most players never use the toilet in the Velvet Room Cell.

    • @luisgusta
      @luisgusta 7 років тому +1

      I actually skipped Personas 3 and 4 (Ok, I know, I should totally play them), so I dont really know what you mean by Shadows in past games... but I always understood that's what the demons always were in the PS1 games.
      I actually thought they took form of those figures and creatures because everything in those games were created by people's subconscious.

  • @magic8ball237
    @magic8ball237 7 років тому +747

    Man i want an extra credits themed tarot deck

    • @roundishwhale
      @roundishwhale 7 років тому +5

      yeah, would fit perfectly next to my Welcome to nightvale themed tarot deck^^

    • @andresarancio6696
      @andresarancio6696 7 років тому +37

      Fortune: James having free time

    • @duckrutt
      @duckrutt 7 років тому +4

      I have a silicon valley tarot deck, it's pretty great.

    • @Meteo1777
      @Meteo1777 7 років тому +6

      Only if they replace The World with the flat plane of a Minecraft world.

    • @audieliem4843
      @audieliem4843 7 років тому

      IREALLY WANT THIS TOO

  • @franktheninja2
    @franktheninja2 7 років тому +78

    "Jung II, this time it's persona"
    Is phenomenal.

  • @christop17
    @christop17 7 років тому +69

    I love how in P4:G the P3 teacher explains jungian psychology.

    • @amadeusgrant5227
      @amadeusgrant5227 7 років тому +8

      Mr. Edogawa explained it in Persona 3 as well when our characters went to summer school. I was really interested in that particular lecture so it sticks with me even now.

    • @tenkuken7168
      @tenkuken7168 7 років тому +6

      Man persona teach me more than school

    • @kingduckdodo6672
      @kingduckdodo6672 3 роки тому

      how about persona 2?

  • @Sperium3000
    @Sperium3000 7 років тому +461

    They rip off their masks because the persona themselves (The creatures) are the masks, which then take their true forms. It's not rocket science, c'mon.

    • @hollowficate
      @hollowficate 6 років тому +14

      THIS!!!

    • @OSDisco
      @OSDisco 5 років тому +9

      If you see this comment with no context, it becomes so much more funny.

    • @DakarTwelve
      @DakarTwelve 5 років тому +11

      That's the physical interpretation, sure. This looks into the symbolic references, which are arguably more interesting.

    • @Uldihaa
      @Uldihaa 5 років тому +14

      @@DakarTwelve But the physical act is also a symbolic one, much the same way that holding your hands together is symbolic of prayer. In fact, the areas that the characters can summon their Persona are symbolism made physical.

    • @DakarTwelve
      @DakarTwelve 5 років тому +7

      @@Uldihaa this does nothing to disprove my point, and only enhances it.

  • @MlMZY630
    @MlMZY630 7 років тому +55

    I believe that they chose to make your Persona summoning ripping off a mask due to the whole theme of the game. Since it's all about rebellion and fighting against society, it makes sense for them to summon their Persona the opposite way you would think, like the rebels they are.

  • @Ysmiras
    @Ysmiras 7 років тому +82

    My god EC just used an animation in their video instead of still frames 5:44

  • @redrumssam5888
    @redrumssam5888 7 років тому +66

    I FACE OUT
    I HOLD OUT
    I REACH OUT TO THE TRUTH

    • @l3l723
      @l3l723 4 роки тому +13

      BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,BABY,

    • @EngimaMinh
      @EngimaMinh 4 роки тому +2

      Yyyyyyyyyyeeeeeeeaaaaaahhhhhhhh!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • @federalcasemaker
      @federalcasemaker 4 роки тому +2

      Anima and Animus fighting each other is accepting a shadow

    • @LawsCrown
      @LawsCrown 3 роки тому

      🎺

    • @naethavenir9422
      @naethavenir9422 3 роки тому

      This makes more sense after P4G is now on Steam for the PC

  • @dazzlingflash69
    @dazzlingflash69 7 років тому +274

    Seems no one is mentioning The Final Pam as The Judgement. Nice addition!

    • @NinianGhin
      @NinianGhin 7 років тому +13

      Nearly spit out my coffee when I saw it lol

    • @theSato
      @theSato 7 років тому +4

      what is "the final pam"?

    • @calebv123
      @calebv123 7 років тому +14

      Sato it's from polygon's "Monster Factory" videos, where Griffin and Justin McElroy play games that have character customization and just try to make, well, monstrous people with it lol. The Final Pam is from their Fallout 4 series

    • @Xenoraze
      @Xenoraze 7 років тому +9

      I paused the video at that exact moment to see who else in the comments caught that.

    • @XeansIcemane
      @XeansIcemane 7 років тому +10

      The Final Pam is the metric by which the world is judged and the judge. The Final Pam is the Pam which death forgot.
      She's the main character of Polygon's monster factory Fallout 4 videos.

  • @Voiced
    @Voiced 7 років тому +8

    The ripping off the mask actually makes a great deal of sense. The persona for the main characters is their true feelings they bury , the actualization of their true self. By ripping off the mask, they accept their true unconscious self and it manifests as a persona. This is why Persona users can't have shadows, as Morgana stated. It also really plays on the word Persona/Mask and it was a great design choice.

  • @excusemesirs.isthiswhereib4514
    @excusemesirs.isthiswhereib4514 7 років тому +134

    End credits :
    "YOU SEE THAT MY MIND IS , TOO FAST FOR EYES "

    • @Draconiac123
      @Draconiac123 6 років тому +2

      now i have to listen that music again hahahah

  • @Cha0zK1n9
    @Cha0zK1n9 6 років тому +27

    Hey this applies to Persona 4 as well! Kanji's Anima and Naoto's Animus!

    • @2tired2p15
      @2tired2p15 3 роки тому +2

      and the whole Shadow thing is even more well done there, because most of the palace rulers in 5 don't actually face themselves like in 4

  • @Zelenal
    @Zelenal 7 років тому +293

    Slightly annoyed that they didn't even mention the past Persona games even in passing. They're all dealt with Jungian psychology from the start and I'd argue that P4 does a slightly better job of expressing its ideas. P4 even has a segment where one character sits the group down and explains to them what Jungian psychology, explicitly name dropping it, is all about and how it relates to what they're going through.

    • @Dispensa7
      @Dispensa7 7 років тому +31

      One of the exra channel things in P4 Golden, with the classroom and teacher from P3, has a lot of lectures about Jungian psychology, which was a great move I thought.

    • @cons4943
      @cons4943 7 років тому +39

      Anima and Animus is also explored through Kanji in a far more in-depth way than Persona 5 explores it.

    • @theSato
      @theSato 7 років тому +17

      Persona 4 was not as well-known in the mainstream, using Persona 5 makes more sense because more of the audience is familiar with it - that's all.

    • @andresarancio6696
      @andresarancio6696 7 років тому +48

      All games deal with jungian philosophy and psychology differently and address them in their own terms. Persona 5 seems more interested in perception while P4 focuses on the self discovery and therapeutic ideas of it and P3 dives into the effect facing death and instrospectionnhas in people's character. Each of those are valid ways to appriach Jung, and yeah, it is kinda sad EC isolated their commentary in the latest and hottest issue of the franchise

    • @ajjdgj6tmgedvnmtmek
      @ajjdgj6tmgedvnmtmek 7 років тому +9

      Extra Credits isn't supposed to be hour-long explorations of the themes of video games, though. They're designed to be short videos on game design, which in this case specifically is the intersection of psychology and games. The most retrospective of the series they'd have done is a throw away line about how all the Persona games include references to Jung.

  • @JunKurosu
    @JunKurosu 7 років тому +126

    You'll never see it coming

    • @MagmarFire
      @MagmarFire 7 років тому +4

      I thought he was done in.

    • @waraidako
      @waraidako 7 років тому +6

      He will be. And by the time it hits him, it'll be his last surprise.

    • @drpg7924
      @drpg7924 7 років тому +5

      LOOKING COOL JOKER

    • @overlordchemm3705
      @overlordchemm3705 7 років тому +1

      All this clowning around is fun and all, BUT ALL OF YOU NEED TO GO TO BED

    • @tenkuken7168
      @tenkuken7168 7 років тому +1

      Oh hi Yusukes Dad

  • @KreativAce
    @KreativAce 7 років тому +173

    Petition to have them reupload the video with the only change being having a picture of "The World" from Jojo's at 5:09 instead of a drawing of the actual world

    • @bmrave
      @bmrave 6 років тому +3

      KreativAce YES

    • @nohaxmeh576
      @nohaxmeh576 6 років тому +6

      ZA WARUUUUDO!

    • @cilonrs
      @cilonrs 5 років тому +2

      *muda intensifies

  • @VishusCycle
    @VishusCycle 7 років тому +151

    FINAL PAM!!! 5:07

  • @hibye201
    @hibye201 7 років тому +491

    I had to correct the use of the Collective Unconscious. In the Persona series, the collective unconscious is represented by the velvet room, hence why it's there you could summon demons, angels and gods from various mythologies and religions. It is the literal embodiment of the collective unconscious, the sum total of all symbolism in order to understand the natural world and phenomena around us. Also, it's quite explicitly stated when you summon some Personas, they mention something along the lines of "I come for the sea of thy heart", a metaphor for the collective unconscious. So yeah, I don't think mementos was a appropriate example in this case.

    • @moses3167
      @moses3167 7 років тому +104

      hibye201 Morgana when talking about Mementos: "Think of it as the collective unconscious".
      Not saying what you said is wrong, just that Morgana literally calls it the collective unconscious.

    • @MrLuizilla
      @MrLuizilla 7 років тому +36

      hibye201 Well, I think both the Velvet Room and Mementos could be considered representations of the collective unconscious. I'm fairly certain that they say in the game that Mementos symbolizes the collecrive unconscious.

    • @JacksonJinn
      @JacksonJinn 7 років тому +124

      COME ON DOWN TO SPOILER TOWN
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      .
      Aaaaand that's why the Velvet Room is INSIDE Mementos, locked away. Because they're both representations of the Collective Unconscious. It's just that the Big Bad has more control over one than the other. The Velvet Room represents the bedrock aspects, the universal immutable symbols at the deepest part of the psyche, while Mementos starts off much more surface-level and thus is susceptible to change. And, this is why you need to become more well-known as the game goes on to access deeper and deeper aspects of Mementos; because you need to *become* a universal symbol recognized by the world, for good or for ill, to be a part of those immutable universal symbols at the bottom.

    • @moses3167
      @moses3167 7 років тому +5

      JacksonJin What he said. Didn't want to spoil but this is essentially it.

    • @majorblues1128
      @majorblues1128 7 років тому +4

      I think Persona devs think of it as a realm of shadows inaccessible by humans that represents the collective will of society, and that it takes shape an keeps resurfacing in many forms.

  • @rickimaru915
    @rickimaru915 7 років тому +28

    5:03 Uncle Death! Just started playing Let it Die the other day so it was nice to see that reference.

    • @spindash64
      @spindash64 7 років тому +2

      I should check that out sometime

  • @thekrispiestkreme5609
    @thekrispiestkreme5609 7 років тому +4

    being a long time persona fan it inspired me to literally dive into psychology, tarotology, and cognitive science, so i'm actually really happy everyone else is now finally getting on board the jung train. i will say though that playing persona 4 felt like it handled the idea of the shadow and anima/animus really well and better than persona 5

  • @miguelcontreras6783
    @miguelcontreras6783 7 років тому +213

    *Dan starts naming tarot card*
    My brain: "is that a JoJo reference?"

    • @tenkuken7168
      @tenkuken7168 7 років тому +22

      Miguel Contreras persona is a JoJo reference

    • @SonnyFRST
      @SonnyFRST 6 років тому +10

      as Persona 5 often says: it's all in the cognition (of the beholder) as, for people who played Persona before watching Jojo, JJBA is a Persona reference. (except for Parts 1/2, as those had no Standsonas)

    • @tenkuken7168
      @tenkuken7168 6 років тому +8

      Sonny FIRESTORM persona 2 is basically JoJo part 2

    • @idonotmakevidsyet
      @idonotmakevidsyet 6 років тому

      Sonny FIRESTORM I think persona influenced Jojo part 3 since it came out before stands

    • @therealjuralumin3416
      @therealjuralumin3416 6 років тому +3

      JoJo Part 3 came out in the 80’s, Persona has always taken heavy influence from JoJo as a whole, that's never been a secret, well maybe outside of Japan it was since nobody ever read JoJo until the Anime came out. I’m actually pretty sure the first JoJo video game on the PS1 is older than the first Persona game!

  • @dc4296
    @dc4296 7 років тому +15

    not just Persona 5... there's a 1, and 2 and 3 and 4 and they're all good games

  • @theSkyfisher
    @theSkyfisher 7 років тому +18

    The ripping off the mask to summon your Persona makes complete sense with the ideas set by Jungian psychology. Because the monster that is your Persona in the game literally is the mask on your face as shown by when you get new ones. So when you rip off the mask you are hiding behind you let it form it's true shape and if you notice they always cover their face when they summon in order to still hide their face while their mask is out fighting for them.

    • @andresarancio6696
      @andresarancio6696 7 років тому

      Yes. I think it has to do with being aware of it being a mask what unleashes the Persona. You are still using it, not showing your raw self,but you are recognizing and stating that this mask isn't you

    • @mancenhan
      @mancenhan 7 років тому

      When each of the main characters first gains their persona by removing their mask, I also saw it as symbolism for them abandoning the role society had given them and rebelling by choosing their own path in life.

  • @remis8623
    @remis8623 4 роки тому +8

    I like to think that Joker having the "Wild Card" power, which allows him to use multiple different personas, is also a reference to the fact that his character is that of a blank canvas, taking on the personality, or persona, that the player exhibits while playing the game

    • @TheJustinGreen
      @TheJustinGreen 4 роки тому

      Remis Chun I agree. Which is an aspect of the Fool or the Trickster - there’s shape shifting abilities.

  • @MyLifeIsAnRPG
    @MyLifeIsAnRPG 7 років тому +36

    OMG can I have a extra credits tarot deck! Those were hillarious.

  • @nothri
    @nothri 7 років тому +13

    Whoa a whole extra credits devoted to Persona 5 psychology??? Was not expecting this.
    In fact..::SHADES:: I never saw it coming.

  • @diaermuid5847
    @diaermuid5847 5 років тому +4

    I think the ripping off the mask to summon their persona is symbolic of how painful and difficult it can be for someone to discover/embrace/reveal who they really are. Even blood is shown when each character first takes off their mask.

  • @AFKei
    @AFKei 7 років тому +41

    (snorts at the references used for the Tarot card)

  • @bradenwickstrom5618
    @bradenwickstrom5618 7 років тому +10

    In regards to personas and masks, I always interpreted it as the characters persona being their true self, and by ripping off the masks they wear to fit in with society, they're drawing strength from that true self rather than society's perception of them.

  • @spamkaze
    @spamkaze 7 років тому +3

    Loki to Loki?
    Come on, man. Coyote, Brer Rabbit, Anansi, Sinbad... even Bugs Bunny or the Animaniacs!
    Beyond that, excellent video as always :D

  • @Michformer
    @Michformer 7 років тому +11

    Wonderful analysis as usual. I thought Get Even similarly and deftly portrayed the human condition, albeit in a way that completely turns story roles and exploration scenarios on their heads with its theme of identity and looping narrative. It's one thing to contextualize the environment and in-game action, it's another to do the same thing for the actual systems and mechanics governing the virtual space and gameplay rules.

  • @CopyCatPhantom
    @CopyCatPhantom 7 років тому +15

    I see that Gaben placed right in the middle of the steam sale.

  • @javelinmaster2
    @javelinmaster2 5 років тому +3

    That plus the Palaces are the 7 deadly sins:
    1. Lust
    2. Envy (or vanity)
    3. Gluttony
    4. Wrath
    5. Greed
    6. Vanity (or envy)
    7. Pride
    8. Sloth
    Correct me if I am wrong

  • @LucianoThePig
    @LucianoThePig 7 років тому +34

    I don't know about this guy, maybe he was before my time and I'm too Jung

  • @PHKola
    @PHKola 7 років тому +41

    Didn't see this coming

    • @Nintendotron64
      @Nintendotron64 7 років тому +15

      And knowing this channel, it won't be the last surprise

    • @fizzie6902
      @fizzie6902 6 років тому +3

      They tend to reach out for the truth a lot.

    • @Cilibi
      @Cilibi 6 років тому +2

      YOU'LL NEVER SEEN IT COMING!!

  • @theroughsketchartist1415
    @theroughsketchartist1415 7 років тому +280

    They missed the opportunity to put some stands in the video when listing the Tarot cards

    • @downstream0114
      @downstream0114 7 років тому +6

      +King_Isard_of_Io - Stand-ins? There was Lord Gaben, if you didn't realize?

    • @rollforrupees6479
      @rollforrupees6479 7 років тому +17

      +Downstream01 Stands, from JJBA

    • @Arausito
      @Arausito 7 років тому +35

      IS THAT A MOTHERFUCKING JOJO REFERENCE LOLLLLLOL MUDAMUDAMUDA WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

    • @mario__265
      @mario__265 7 років тому +14

      *Standos

    • @bigounce2651
      @bigounce2651 7 років тому +2

      +Arausito Dude...chill.

  • @SkyeFyre2131
    @SkyeFyre2131 7 років тому +4

    "I am a Shadow, the true self!"
    - The moment I realised that Persona 4 was about to be something special.

  • @excusemesirs.isthiswhereib4514
    @excusemesirs.isthiswhereib4514 7 років тому

    I was literally begging you for a Persona 5 episode !! Thanks !

  • @jordansean18
    @jordansean18 7 років тому

    Holy artwork! That's a ton of work for this episode!
    I've been studying Jungian psychology for the better part of the last year, and I really appreciate this overview. Thanks guys; Great work!

  • @EchoL0C0
    @EchoL0C0 7 років тому +43

    It's funny, but growing up with Aspberger's, I didn't really understand the idea of a persona until it was explicitly spelled out for me, well into high school. In other words, I literally acted like the same person, regardless of context or setting, no mask.
    I still don't really have that firm a grasp on the concept, and have to make a conscious effort to "put on a mask" and it's usually only marginally effective. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

    • @charcharmunr
      @charcharmunr 7 років тому +11

      I wonder how Jung would have reacted to Asperger's. Because for the most part, there's some validity in a lot of his stuff, not entirely, but somebody with Asperger's is almost completely outside that realm, it's like... You've effectively kind of bypassed Personas as a whole, because you're you and why would you ever want to be anything but you, you like you just fine. Archetypes, sure, you probably fall into one, sort of. One could argue, using his own terminology, than somebody with Asperger's is more-or-less disconnected from the collective unconsciousness, or rather... Has their own, which renders interaction with others feeling... Alien.

    • @spindash64
      @spindash64 7 років тому +5

      charcharmunr
      Would that also mean that there's no shadow, or at least much less shadow? Also, this is making me wonder how that would work IN Persona.

    • @charcharmunr
      @charcharmunr 7 років тому +2

      Well, there've been some characters in Persona who seem relatively disconnected. Sho in Persona 4 Arena Ultimax, for example.

    • @EchoL0C0
      @EchoL0C0 7 років тому +3

      charcharmunr
      Yeah, archetypes I'm pretty sure are still valid.
      I think I've always felt like "the fool" (65% Shakespeare's version and 35% the Tarot version) or somewhere in that ballpark- not really cognizant of a lot of obvious things but despite and/or because of that, that still able to more easily see things from an uncommon but useful perspective. Also somewhat prone to accidentally ending up in unfavorable situations (from my perspective at least) due to said lack of cognizance yet generally avoiding the consequences I think are coming and avoiding becoming jaded as a result (from my perspective at least).
      And even as a kid I feel like I would have understood archetypes, at least as much as any other kid.
      Sorry for the long, self-indulgent reply.
      I just appreciated the feedback and I don't think thumbs up show the people who do them anymore.

    • @ThatOneGuy0006
      @ThatOneGuy0006 6 років тому +2

      spindash64 I have Aspergers and I can confirm that the shadow is still there, it just makes it harder to create a persona. (I had to manually learn through intensive therapy and phychiactric help.)

  • @killerOfMoons
    @killerOfMoons 7 років тому +622

    *(Insert jojo's reference)*

    • @bagfisch6515
      @bagfisch6515 7 років тому +42

      (Insert Duwang Quote)

    • @coreblaster6809
      @coreblaster6809 7 років тому +14

      Sealand Ball I THAT A OTHERFUNGIN JONO'S REVERENCE?

    • @GabrielShitposting
      @GabrielShitposting 7 років тому +35

      Sealand Ball 5:09 *Distant Wry*

    • @gam3rtim352
      @gam3rtim352 7 років тому +15

      ( Insert WRYYYYYYYY)

    • @AegixDrakan
      @AegixDrakan 7 років тому +26

      You thought it was a Jojo Reference.
      BUT IT WAS I, DIO!

  • @SnivySomnia
    @SnivySomnia 7 років тому +1

    5:48 In addition, if you pick the answers that best fit what they want to hear, they will like you more. For the elementary school gamer, telling him he's right even if you think he's being bratty. For the ex-yakuza, hearing that you have ulterior motives aloud immediately relieves him of the tension he's used to feeling. Plus, what they want to hear changes over the course of your link. The star shogi player initially enjoys you as a flirt, but prefers you start helping her advance her career midway through.

  • @devilofether6185
    @devilofether6185 7 років тому +1

    This is literally the kind of game I have been looking for, and I didn't even know it!, thanks Dan and the Extra Credits crew!

  • @nantukoprime
    @nantukoprime 7 років тому +3

    Parallels also exist between the Major Arcana and storytelling. You start your journey as The Fool, and you progress towards The World where a resolution to the main arc is made apparent.
    It is even covered by Campbell, who saw the Major Arcana as representing the stages of life as the individual learned more about themselves and were affected by life's challenges.

  • @2203dk
    @2203dk 7 років тому +6

    I love the video's you do on psychology/philosophy although being an avid tolken fan I have to point out using odin and Gandolf as separate examples is redundant because the character of Gandolf is heavily influenced by Odin to the point of arguably being based off him. A small nitpick I know so keep making awesome videos!

  • @SimplyMayaBeauty
    @SimplyMayaBeauty 7 років тому

    Such a timely video, I have an exam about Myths and Psychoanalysis in a week with Jung being a prominent figure. You guys did a good job explaining the basic concepts of his ideas!

  • @Galbrei
    @Galbrei 7 років тому +1

    You can tell someone had a lot of fun drawing those tarot images! Gabe as the Hierophant cracked me up!

  • @mu556
    @mu556 7 років тому +16

    "The World"
    >Not having DIO pop up for a split second

    • @spindash64
      @spindash64 7 років тому +4

      SummonerCypress
      WRRRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY

  • @lrgogo1517
    @lrgogo1517 7 років тому +6

    I'm not sure how much I was properly able to learn because Scott was having too much fun drawing this episode.

  • @johncoleman1930
    @johncoleman1930 7 років тому

    I liked this please do more, I'd love to see more of these types of videos exploring the psychological aspects of games both in the narrative,mechanics, and in the player, this was great I loved it!

  • @yaumelepire6310
    @yaumelepire6310 7 років тому

    Always pleasant to see video games bring to science discussions.

  • @Neoxon619
    @Neoxon619 7 років тому +82

    I didn't see this coming, but it's nice to see you do some Persona 5 videos.
    Also, the arcana of the P5 protagonist (or Ren, his canon name) is Fool, not Trickster. Also, Loki is a Persona in the series, as are Thor & Odin.

    • @Late0NightPC
      @Late0NightPC 7 років тому +33

      His arcana is the fool. However in game, everyone calls him the Trickster. play the game and you will see. When it comes to fate, Akira is called "the fool" but when it comes to him specifically, he is referred to as "the Trickster"

    • @Nipah.Auauau
      @Nipah.Auauau 7 років тому +9

      wtf everyone calls him 'Joker' in my game no one has called him 'Trickster' yet.

    • @lordgeovan
      @lordgeovan 7 років тому +9

      Archetype =/= arcana
      He meant, I'd guess, that the fool in the major arcana corresponds to the age-old archetype of the trickster.

    • @BassCrossMegamanSP
      @BassCrossMegamanSP 7 років тому +1

      Nipah Auauau The trickster is actually for all of the party members, IIRC

    • @sphealingit222
      @sphealingit222 7 років тому +7

      Actually, Akira can be both Trickster and Fool because Tarot. The fool represents the beginning of a journey which will change the very nature of the fool embarking upon it. He was the fool when he got sent to Tokyo on parole, forced on a journey which will inevitably change him. without his consent. This injustice sets him on the path of the trickster as well, as he will rebel against corruption with incredibly questionable methods. And the big thing that allows him to be represented by two tarrots is the fact that the fool and the trickster share the position as the first card in different iterations of the tarot deck. The French deck, used in P5, has the Pierrot, or the jester arcana instead of the fool, which represents both the Fool and the Trickster. Without spoiling anything, Atlus actually used both the Fool and the Jester as seperate Arcana and Social Links in P4 Golden, with the Jester representing the Trickster, so there is precedent for my assumption of P5's use of the French deck.
      Also, sorry for the info dump, or if I came off as a pretentious ass, I just really like this series.

  • @KairuFreestar91
    @KairuFreestar91 7 років тому

    that was enlightening and made me think of some things that I didn't really notice at first. Will be interesting going through new game+ with this on my mind now!

  • @thepastelcatkp5867
    @thepastelcatkp5867 3 роки тому

    This is amazing! Thanks for the info Extra Credits
    !

  • @persiangeorgiev
    @persiangeorgiev 7 років тому +221

    You pronounced "Za Warudo" wrong :D

    • @SakuraAvalon
      @SakuraAvalon 6 років тому +8

      Yeah, it's: 'AKANA FOSU NIIJUUICHI ZA WARUDO!!!"

    • @jurtra9090
      @jurtra9090 4 роки тому +1

      @@SakuraAvalon he means JOJO

    • @romeoduque7297
      @romeoduque7297 4 роки тому +1

      It's not za warudo it's ZAAA WAAARRRRUUUDOOOO

    • @SakuraAvalon
      @SakuraAvalon 4 роки тому +1

      Juragan Traktor I know.

  • @NeoDragonEWW
    @NeoDragonEWW 7 років тому +36

    1:04 - hahaha, I don't think that black postman would wave and smile at a white dude in a white hood walking towards him.

    • @TheMaplestrip
      @TheMaplestrip 7 років тому +3

      Stephen McVicker Oh... Uh... Yeah, good catch.....

  • @justjuniorjaw
    @justjuniorjaw 7 років тому

    I expected this kinda topic from someone
    Never expected you'll do one. Nice!

  • @millkinsan
    @millkinsan 7 років тому

    MORE PSYCHOLOGY IN GAMES episodes please XD amazed and so hyped

  • @justderp5713
    @justderp5713 7 років тому +110

    "The difference between a smart and wise person is this: a smart person knows a tomato is a fruit, however the wise does not put it in their fruit salad." - a sorta edited quote some from probably famous dude

    • @Malisteen
      @Malisteen 7 років тому +8

      The best I heard it put was this: A smart person knows Galaxy Quest is not a Star Trek movie. A wise person knows Galaxy Quest is /the best/ Star Trek movie.

    • @justderp5713
      @justderp5713 7 років тому +4

      jeesus its been 27 minutes and ive already got 4 likes and two replies... lmao

    • @Kyman102
      @Kyman102 7 років тому +34

      I've seen it expounded entirely with D&D stats.
      Strength - Crushing a tomato
      Dexterity - Dodging a thrown tomato
      Constitution - Eating a bad tomato and not getting sick
      Intelligence - Knowing a tomato is a fruit
      Wisdom - Knowing not to put tomato in a fruit salad
      Charisma - The ability to sell someone a tomato-based fruit salad.
      I also saw a Tumblr post where someone followed that up with "But isn't a tomato-based fruit salad just a salsa?"

    • @ajjdgj6tmgedvnmtmek
      @ajjdgj6tmgedvnmtmek 7 років тому +4

      Is a salsa (or pico de gallo) a fruit salad?
      Also, for legal and taxation purposes in the USA, tomatoes are vegetables. There literally were court cases about it, because some guy importing tomatoes tried to classify them as fruit to get better tax rates and avoid regulations.

    • @Bamboo_bazooka
      @Bamboo_bazooka 7 років тому

      Kyman102 i remember that post and i discussed with the family we decided that salsa is a fruit salad and that peppers are also fruit

  • @Axedannerchannel
    @Axedannerchannel 7 років тому +8

    Was THAT the FINAL PAM!?

  • @kentamidorin
    @kentamidorin 7 років тому

    Oh wow. I was waiting for a video of this exact subject from EC!

  • @urahara64360
    @urahara64360 7 років тому

    I was looking forward to a persona video from the extra credits team and I was not disappointed. I would love to see more of your thoughts on various aspects of the series as a whole or just persona 5. There is a lot of both that could be dug into for a interesting topics.

  • @nerdynoah
    @nerdynoah 7 років тому +5

    What is going on with that gun at 0:24? Is the second trigger just for punctuation?

  • @3112Shadow
    @3112Shadow 7 років тому +6

    I did *NOT* expect Final Pam XD

  • @thegrandnecroposter6782
    @thegrandnecroposter6782 7 років тому

    This is currently my favourite youtube channel. Keep it up!

  • @86PaciFist86
    @86PaciFist86 7 років тому +1

    Yay, thx for psychology episodes :-)

  • @Random0200Dude
    @Random0200Dude 7 років тому +11

    85 Hours of gameplay explained in 8 minutes. 10 outa 10

  • @Blizzic
    @Blizzic 7 років тому +79

    Wait that's what the collective unconscious is? I thought it was the god from Code Geass...

    • @evecampbell3069
      @evecampbell3069 6 років тому +1

      Yes! I just finished the video and was looking for someone to comment that. That's the first thing my mind went to when I heard those words. What's your opinion on S3 coming out?

    • @SorarikoMotone
      @SorarikoMotone 6 років тому +4

      basically, a place where humanity shares their ideas. The main reason why some ancient gods are quite similar, as well as some folklore, like monsters, stories, etc.

    • @solgaleooflight8703
      @solgaleooflight8703 6 років тому

      Wut

    • @Bronze_Age_Sea_Person
      @Bronze_Age_Sea_Person 6 років тому

      I thought about Plato's Theory of Forms

  • @Ali-fs7ze
    @Ali-fs7ze 7 років тому +1

    Actually, the Tarot connections and inspirations run much deeper than that. Every Confidant starts with their life being in the upside down position of their arcana; But as you progress through the stories you help them change for the better and get their life in the upright position.
    Like for example Ryuji's Arcana, The Chariot, in it's upside down position means Aggression and being lost in life. Or Ann's, The Lover, Means not knowing what to do and chasing after the wrong things.

  • @BananaStab
    @BananaStab 7 років тому

    That The Final Pam reference made me double take and then laugh super hard!
    Great episode!

  • @greymattergaming5317
    @greymattergaming5317 7 років тому +5

    I find your lack of JoJo reference for 'The world', disappointing.

  • @starfyre59
    @starfyre59 7 років тому +3

    5:08 Oh my god... she's found persona 5. She will consume it

  • @EtnaBoy666
    @EtnaBoy666 7 років тому +1

    Since I am platinuming this game come July, it is nice to know how this version of Persona is different from the other versions. :)

  • @cookiesliyr2
    @cookiesliyr2 7 років тому

    a damn great episode, thank you very much guys.

  • @amphibious8063
    @amphibious8063 7 років тому +4

    Did some one say TAROT? STAAAR PLATINUM! SILVA CHARIOT! HIEROPHANTO GUREEN! HERMITO PAHPUL! MAGICIANS RED!

    • @amphibious8063
      @amphibious8063 7 років тому +2

      And of course... ZA WARUDO

    • @tenkuken7168
      @tenkuken7168 6 років тому

      There's a guy who can stop time in persona lol he looks like a fusion of magicians red and star platinum+ a little bit of the hand

  • @noOtherFs
    @noOtherFs 7 років тому +8

    I kinda feel the need to question why this topic isn't discussed back when P3 or P4 came out. Is it simply because P5 is that much more hyped thanks to the popularity built up by P3 and P4 themselves?

    • @thehandlewasgone
      @thehandlewasgone 7 років тому +11

      Pretty much. Persona 5 is the most accessible of the installments, so a lot of people who have never played Persona just got into it with 5. So expect to see a lot of vids jumping on the hype train now, than when Persona was more niche.

    • @IWantToStayAtYourHouse
      @IWantToStayAtYourHouse 5 років тому

      Ive never heard of persona until persona 5 came out. its no denying P5 is popularizing the series

  • @GSPV33
    @GSPV33 5 років тому

    Awesome video!!

  • @asterluke
    @asterluke 7 років тому +1

    I think the reason behind tearing their masks off so violently can describe the effect of different hardships in life affecting who you are. So much to the fact that when everything changes dramatically you must find yourself going through mask to mask to be able to overcome what comes at you.

  • @whhyyyyyyyyyy
    @whhyyyyyyyyyy 7 років тому +5

    he starts naming tarpt cards and all im thinking is the binding of issac

  • @patrickdawson6281
    @patrickdawson6281 7 років тому +12

    In order to play this game you need to sort yourself out go tidy your room..... roughly speaking

    • @TheHappyCrusader
      @TheHappyCrusader 7 років тому +1

      And that's no joke!

    • @WAGMILLC
      @WAGMILLC 7 років тому

      2/10, dead father wasn't revivified

    • @somfinkstoff8559
      @somfinkstoff8559 7 років тому +1

      but ya,know what about the hierarchy? (of dominance)

    • @readerofstainedhearts0593
      @readerofstainedhearts0593 6 років тому

      "Clean your room."
      *Cleans room*
      "Fix the situation with your family."
      *Maxes confidant with Sojiro and Futaba*
      "Do good in the broader community."
      *Forms genuine relationships with influential people through Shujin and Shibuya*
      "There 'ya go, bucko! Now, go on and slay the dragon of chaos."

  • @kurojima
    @kurojima 7 років тому

    very cool video as always

  • @lvl3-wizard81
    @lvl3-wizard81 7 років тому +1

    I appreciate you delving into the intricacies of persona. a different game I'm surprised you haven't talked about as far as I've seen is nier. while there are a couple places where it doesn't the game does a great job linking mechanics to what's happening in the story. something I've seen this channel criticize other games for falling short do I thought it might serve as an interesting case study of sorts for you guys.

  • @flux_casey
    @flux_casey 7 років тому +59

    Oh dear. I can't help laughing. 1:04 I don't think you guys really thought through a guy putting on a white head cover so that he could hang out with a black guy.

    • @RyutaaKuzunoha
      @RyutaaKuzunoha 7 років тому +7

      Top kek.

    • @countrybluegrass
      @countrybluegrass 7 років тому +5

      Nah, look at the original North American release of Persona 2 (only the second half,) which inexplicably turned a Japanese teenager into a stereotypical African-American because... Well, look at Atlus' localization reputation. They've been getting flak for P5, it's 2017 and they've got no more excuses because they used them all up on putting a Japanese kid in blackface in the 90s.

  • @ItsReallyColdOutside
    @ItsReallyColdOutside 7 років тому +10

    I was hoping a za warudo or dio illustration at the tarots cards.....

  • @EconExpo
    @EconExpo 4 роки тому

    Thank you, this is very informative!!!

  • @scimatar5
    @scimatar5 7 років тому

    I just want to say, I drifted off at around 3:30 when you were talking about the old man and all of a sudden started thinking about the hermit from tarot and how it might be cool to bring in aspects from tarot to help tell a story, maybe by capitalizing on certain character traits to help further the hero's journey . . . and then you started talking about it. I don't know why, but it always excites me when I come up with independent thoughts and then see those thoughts reflected back at me by someone else. Which in writing this I realize, maybe that's what the developer was getting at in that character link system from "Persona 5" that you talked about later in the video (I couldn't say because I haven't played "Persona 5", but it makes me really want to play it now). I don't know why, but this video made me really happy, so thanks.

  • @brog4037
    @brog4037 7 років тому +3

    What a beautiful Duwang

  • @justinho6692
    @justinho6692 7 років тому +3

    5:09 ZA WARUDO

  • @mistyeyes101
    @mistyeyes101 6 років тому

    I've had most of this knowledge, but I appreciate how you describe it well! Plus the social link part was an eye-opener for me, I didn't realize that if the Persona types matched then your Confidants would level up faster with you. Jungian psychology really is fascinating!

  • @animeowza
    @animeowza 6 років тому

    I'm hitting the 60th hour of my first playthrough and this video definitely gives me a deeper appreciation for the game's story and mechanics. Thanks!

  • @bakersbread104
    @bakersbread104 7 років тому +4

    5:05 The stARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR PLATINUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUM

  • @bnerd1
    @bnerd1 7 років тому +5

    HELLO METAL HUSBAND and Trash Hogan

    • @BluesMoth64
      @BluesMoth64 5 років тому

      THREE EYED METAL HUSBAND

  • @maplekaaa
    @maplekaaa 7 років тому

    great video!

  • @prinnyraiddance
    @prinnyraiddance 7 років тому

    I started getting into Joseph Campbell after playing ThatGameCompany's "Journey", and Campbell cited Jung a lot which brought me to his works on analytical psychology. Then I started playing the Persona games alongside reading Jung starting with 3 so it all sorta came full circle I guess. I'm so thankful for these games that blend themes of myth and psychology and learning about one's self from it all. Journey set me on the course to read the philosophers and psychologists and mythologists I've taken so much from today.