The Canon EOS R6 and Atomos Ninja V Have Clog 3 Issues | Same with the R5 and R7
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- Опубліковано 29 вер 2024
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#atomosninjav #r6 #r7
Ok first off The Ninja V and Ninja V+ can record clog 3 just not using Cinema Gamut,, It can do rec709 or rec 2020.
The reason for that is not the fault of Atomos or really Canon, Well Canon is to blame a bit, you see the reason people are loving and are excited about Cinema Gamut clog 3 is because yes it has a wider color range and more information in your footage, The Problem with that is, is that No HDMI Cable Can handle it.
Something gets lost in the translation in the cable when it reaches the Ninja V, and so colors tones are out of of control because the Ninja Can't write the correct color system in that video.
Now the Only way i can see this would be fixed is Atomos come out with an HDMI cable that would fix this.
Or Canon re-write the software on how the color spectrum gets transmitted though the HDMI cable to the Ninja where the Ninja Would properly produce the video file..
In My Opinion I Don't see this happening, #1 I don't think Canon Cares, and I doubt Atomos can really do anything about it except maybe get the engineers who developed their HDMI Cable and manufacture one that would fix this problem, that would mean costing tons of money..
Also It would cost Canon money to fix the software engineers to re-vamp Cinema Gamut Log3. Not Happening....
I thought I was going crazy. Thanks for putting out this video. Also when you hit the "legalize" toggle on the Ninja V, it will not record in C-Log3 and only only in Rec 709 - even if the camera set Rec 2020 or Cinema Gamut. Super frustrating because I thought "legalize" was supposed to match camera settings automatically.
I am interested to see if this still happens on the R7, I have one coming in on Wednesday next week.
@@ReachFilms Yes please update us! Really curious to see if this is a Canon or Atomos issue. I suspect Canon. Did you find this issue with regular C-Log?
@@AxlfroProductions I had another comment, from someone who tested out recording on a blackmagic video assist and had the same issues. So it is a confirmed issue on canons side
@@AxlfroProductions also didn’t realize didn’t answer the other part of the question, and that is this issue only happens with Cine Gammut with Clog3 the other modes like Rec 709 or 2020 do not have this issue
It's not a CLOG3 or Atomos problem. It's a problem with HDMI standards and Canon Cinema Gamut. HDMI simply does not support Canon Cinema Gamut. It's too wide a color space for the HDMI standard.
BT2020, however, is supported by HDMI, so the Atomos Ninja, Ninja V+ and Shogun series recorders can accurately record BT2020 video because the BT2020 color space is supported by the HDMI standard. So the problem is that Canon Cinema gamut color space exceeds the HDMI standard. If you want to use wide gamut color space on your Atomos recorder via the HDMI feed, you are limited to a max color space of BT2020.
And while Cinema Gamut is awesome when recording internally on Canon Cameras, tbh there is zero chance that you can ever distribute a Cinema Gamut video reliably because Canon Cinema Gamut is not a color space supported by most (if not all) distribution partners. BT2020 is however a wide gamut color space which widely available via distribution partners because it's an industry standard. And that is why HDMI included BT2020 as their wide gamut industry standard.
Hey Mark, thank you for this explanation, how does that factor in being able to record prores raw over hdmi? Since it has even more information in the image?
@@ReachFilmsCanon is not sending ProRes Raw over HDMI. They are sending a clean RAW signal (i.e. direct from the sensor without any Canon noise reduction or color science applied) over HDMI and Atomos has licensed the ProRes RAW encoder from Apple as an option to save the RAW data from the sensor (reduced from 12 bit to 10 bit) via the HDMI to a ProRes RAW format in the SSD drive installed on the Ninja or Ninja V+ or Shogun, if ProRes RAW is selected in the Atomos OS as the file format.
@@CrisisActionTeam hi Mark, yes I understand that, I think you understand that I meant how are they sending a raw signal. Because that has much more data in it than clog3. So how are they sending the raw signal without issues?
@@ReachFilms Not exactly, I film all the time with my R5 in Canon Raw AND CLOG-3. CLOG-3 allows you to take advantage of the hidden dual base ISO of the R5 (800 and 3200) thereby gaining more than a stop of dynamic range. So you get more dynamic range from your R5 when using CLOG-3 (if you properly expose for CLOG-3) on top of the RAW file (which circumvents canon color science and noise reduction applied by the Digic X processor in body). I like to think of CLOG-3 as a means to get a significant boost in dynamic range and an easy to grade file in post (as in FCP you can simply apply the CLOG-3 LUT to get a fast base correction to proceed onto grading). In addition, when using an Atomos monitor/recorder product, you can apply a standard CLOG-3 LUT while filming to get a great idea of what your final footage will look like in post with the same LUT applied, thereby giving that fast eyeball assessment while filming of whether you have property exposed your footage (which is much harder to do with a hazy looking RAW or CLOG image without a LUT).
Oh and while the Atomos 10 bit ProRes RAW image has less color info than the 12 bit Canon RAW or CRAW light files recorded internally the R5, the ProRes Raw files edited/corrected/graded in FCP allow for changes in exposure, ISO, color profiles, etc directly in FCP, but CRAW and CRAW Lights files only offer changes to footage settings like exposure and ISO via Canon's "Canon Raw Development" app, which adds another step and prevents changes inside the editor where you want to make them when correcting and grading. So the added Raw functionality offered by the ProRes Raw file format (even with a shift down to 10 bit color space which is a limitation of Canon's image quality provided via HDMI), combined with the speedier ease of editing of those files, makes ProRes Raw a better option for me.
@@CrisisActionTeam Hi Mark, Can i export ProRes Raw with an R6 and Atomos V+ or is it just from the R5?
JFC. How difficult is it for someone to build a device thats not a piece or shit and which records the HDMI signal. These things have one job and both Atomos and BM recorders seem plagued with problems, shit support, and half baked specs. No wonder Tarantino uses film 😅
I use the Ninja V and Canon R6 & R6M2 with CLOG3 and it gives terrible blue amd green color casts and weird lines. It seems like these issues are worse the further away your subject is from the camera. Close up is usually great but way away...nope.
Yea, all canon cameras that film clog3 and use cinema gamut have this issue, it’s not just the original R6
Is this still a problem? I haven’t tried again since I got burned on this during a shoot about a year ago. I just got curious and looked it up. Ugh. The R6 and ninja are almost a perfect combo except for this stupid problem.
Yes it is unfortunately
I am literally dealing with this problem right now. Just got the Ninja V for my r5 and did some test footage everything looks gross to me. All skin tones have yellow blotches on them if I look really close. Also, The monitor itself has a yellow cast and when using a LUT to monitor the preview looks way too contrasty. I have a shinobi and never noticed this color cast on preview. I only got it for the extended record time as the m1 macs handle the H.265 codecs fine. Totally bummed.
It’s annoying that clog3 has been out for more then a year and still no fix in sight
@@ReachFilms I just tested with my BMD 12g Video Assist and it's the same issue. So the problem is Canons output over HDMI. I'm gonna blast Coldplay's Yellow at Canon HQ until they fix this. lol.
@@bombzproductions9595 that is great to know thank you for letting me know! So it is canons issue then, it’s something that canon needs to fix
Is it fixed now? I've an R6 and just ordered a ninja V
@@ricardo.vinagre unfortunately not.
How are you getting your r6 and your ninja V to display at the same time? If my ninja V is displaying the r6 won’t. But I’m obviously missing something because yours works.
You have to change your display settings
I'm on the canon forum* right now trying to see who else might have this issue. The first responder is denying an issue. I'm sorry about the grammar of my comment lol
It’s a common issue facing all canon RF cameras that have clog3 that most people know about so not sure what to tell you
@@ReachFilms yes I definitely had this issue and I really want to record on my Ninja with R5C. Have you tried changing to bt2020? I'm wondering if you change that setting on the Ninja itself?
@@PizzlesTechTime as long as you don’t film in cinema gamut you will not have an issue
@@ReachFilms recording in c log 3 I don't see an option to change color gamut. I'm on the R5c
This still an issue? have been looking into grabbing one up for my R6.
Yea unfortunately, at this point it won’t be fixed
My R6 +ninja v stops recording when shooting 4K at the 30 min camera limit. Search everywhere but couldn’t find a solution. What am I missing? Appreciate any suggestions. Thanks!
You need to turn off the overheat protection I don’t have the camera anymore but there are a few videos covering how to disable it
Those settings r fine. Could it b the cable. The recorder won’t let me record pass 30 fps 4K not even for a second. If I set 4k 60 fps in the camera the ninja resets it to FHD 60 fps.
What about overheating?
What about it?
@@ReachFilms Does the R6 overheat with the Atomos?
@@Oberkobold not that I had seen, but because of this video didn't have the atomos long term to do those kinds of tests
What monitor would you suggest instead then?
Any monitor will work it just depends on your needs, turns out this will happen on any device when viewing the signal from the camera in cinema gammut, it’s an issue on canons side.
great video! do you know if this ever got resolved?
It has not been resolved as of this time
@@ReachFilms 🙄
Just to be clear, you only experienced this issue when shooting Cinema Gammut. Does the color cast / skin tone issue also appear when shooting in BT709?
Correct this only happens in cinema gamut does not happen in any other profile
@@ReachFilms whats the benefit of cinema Gamut clog 3 over clog 3 bt709 ?
@@MichaelBouhnikProductionswider dynamic range, specifically in the highlights
@@ReachFilms what consist of highlights when u say highlights ? Skin tones are they considered highlights ?
@@creativegreats6924 great question! Yes the skin tones can be part of the highlights, really I would say they are right in the middle, but yes, in camera when using cinema gammut you should get better skin tones depending on how your grading is , however it obviously is the opposite of using that mode when using an external recorder right now.