Profitec Pro 500 PID vs ECM Mechanika V Slim HX Comparison
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
- Join Charles as he compares two of our favorite heat exchanger espresso machines, the Profitec Pro 500 PID and the ECM Mechanika V Slim. clivecoffee.com/products/prof...
Used in this video:
Profitec Pro 500 PID: clivecoffee.com/products/prof...
ECM Mechanika V Slim: clivecoffee.com/products/ecm-...
Profitec T64 Espresso Grinder: clivecoffee.com/products/prof...
Eureka Silenzio Espresso Grinder: clivecoffee.com/products/eure...
Acaia Lunar Scale: clivecoffee.com/products/acai...
ECM Angled Bottomless Portafilter: clivecoffee.com/products/ecm-...
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A long awaited comparison not found elsewhere. Good job!
I've been reading a lot about how heat exchangers actually produce a better tasting espresso than a double boiler due to the declining temperature profile. Italians say that brings less hot water and energy to draw the astringents out in the last part of the extraction. I've been researching for so long, at one point I was dead set on a double boiler. Having been to Italy 7 times and never drinking anything close to what I've had there, I would tend to believe there's a reason the Italians prefer heat exchangers. Only in America would we lead the home barista into believing they would need a double boiler. The double boiler was created because barista's in the U.S. are not trained properly so they can pull a more consistent shot with a double boiler. If the Italians are right, and I would imagine they are, you would be better served at home with a heat exchanger unit.
Nice review Charles. Thank you.
I purchased the ECM, simpler, more compact and less expensive. I added a thermometer to the group and I now know what my brew temp is… no need for a PID.
Profitec has my vote, thanks
Thanks, great explanation
Great job comparing these two machines. Bravo!
thanks! this model of the Mechanika is no longer made. It had been replaced with a newer model: clivecoffee.com/products/ecm-mechanika-v-slim-espresso-machine?_pos=2&_psq=mechanika&_ss=e&_v=1.0
Beautiful review Thanks 🙏I have the ECM the steam just wow professional
Hands down the Mechanika V Slim because of limited space. This beats the Appartamento big time!
Have the Mechanika V Slim and love it. Found the steam pressure was a bit high from the factory, turned it down by turning down the pressure stat by 0.5 of a turn resulting in pressure dropping from 1.35 to 1.2 bar. This resulted in less overheated water at start up while maintaining a good steam pressure.
Hi Gordon. Curious to know from other Mechanika owners...How often does your boiler cycle? Mine does every 53 seconds on average.
Thank you very much for this information! I noticed the same today, as I used the machine for the first time. I'll set it up accordingly to your recommendation!
It came down to these two exact machines before I finally purchased and it was a hard pick, both are really awesome kick ass machines. I ended up going for the Mechanica but only because of the fact I was on the fence about the PID on a HX. It's great being able to adjust brew temp electronically on the fly rather than having to adjust the mechanical pressure stat on the inside of the machine, but the PID is another part to wear out and need replacing every 2-3 years. They are easy enough to replace yourself but they do cost about $200-300 a pop (not the cheapest wearing part when in comparison the vibration pump costs $80 and can lasts 10+ years) That considered I don't really change my beans around often enough (at all) so I didn't see the PID function as something i would get enough benefit from. Also the Mechanica was cheaper by $350 when i was purchasing so i went that way. Both are high quality machine made in the same factory, so either one will be very reliable and easy to maintain yourself.
I made the same choice for similar reasons. How is your ECM going?
@@GlowingTube Machine is going great, hasn’t missed a beat.
@@ajv802 I just got mine… I have been pulling incredibly good shots with it and hope to do so for many years to come.
Hey! Thanks for that input about maintenance. I like the Mechanika, but I do use different beans all the time, so I'd like a PID. So, that's that. I am on the fence between Profitec Pro 500 (~$2k) vs 600 (~$2.4k), since comparable ECM models are more expensive. I am on the border between the two, due to the fact that I cannot figure out the maintenance issues that I will be running into. I understand that it's pretty much HX PID vs. DB PID. Does owning DB machine require less maintenance? Therefore, does it warrant the extra $400?? Man, this is hard, since you mentioned the PID costs... yikes. I may have to rethink about PID. What do you think? What are some maintenance parts on these machines I should look out for?
@@jk25653 I'm no expert by any means but If you have the budget id go for a dual boiler, and all the high end DB machines have PID's fitted. I guess you just have to factor in the cost of replacing the PID unit when it wears itself out every few years. Not really the end of the world cost wise when you spread the cost over 3-4 years. When compared to the annual cost of your beans and water filters etc it's not really that bad.
As for more or less maintenance with HX or DB, not too sure. I guess having two boilers means having two heating elements, but I wouldn't imagine that would dramatically affect long term maintenance costs, but better to ask someone who has a DB machine i guess. Good luck with it all, both those machines you mentioned sound awesome and i'm sure you will be happy with either!
Really amazing pair of machines! I’am in the search of the perfect machine, and I think the best addition to a machine like this is the flow control. Do you recommend installing a flow control device to the Profitec Pro 500?
I am going to order the just released updated ECM Mechanika VI Slim machine.
I was hoping to see a comment on the VI. You've had your unit for a few months now... care to share your thoughts? Are you happy with your VI?
I would like to know if there is a new version of the profitec pro 300 that has eco mode. Thanks
The profitec can come with flow control though right? Is that an advantage?
Hi, do you know if there’s going to be a machanika slim with PID soon?
Appartamento or pro 500?Which one has the most steam power ?
How about the rocket appartamento between the 3?
People, in ECM Mechanika V Slim, the V is like roman five (5), not like Victor, there was a Mechanika IV, like in four (4) ....
can the Profitec create a nice whirlpool in the pitcher? I usually use a small one 12oz I think. can't decide between these.
It takes time, I have a pro 500 with pid and I find steam power lacking
Which one would you get ? I’m in the market of my first machine under $2k, my sight was originally with appartamento and some one told me to look into ecm and profitec! Profitec 500 PID is on my lead what do you think
Hi there! That's a great question, it's hard to pick just one since they both have so much to offer! Between these two, you're looking at a comparison of a completely analog machine with the Mechanika and modern digital temperature control with the Pro 500. Performance wise, they feel very similar and can keep up with back to back drinks with ease. If you want to adjust settings and experiment with temperature, go with the Pro 500. If you're more about consistency and reliability, the Mechanika will certainly fit the bill.
From what I understand, since the addition of the PID on the Pro500, the recovery time after pulling a couple of back to back shots has gone up significantly, up. To 10 minutes. Can you explain that?
We have absolutely no experience or evidence that supports this. In my testing for this video, I pulled 3 shots back to back and saw no significant decrease in the effective brew temperature over the duration of the shot. Indeed, it was more stable from one shot to the next than the Mechanika by a strong margin.
Testing and personal experience aside, there is nothing about the design of the design or specs of the Pro 500 PID that should increase the recovery time. The only case where this idea might hold water is when the PID is set to significantly lower temperatures. This will, of course, increase the recovery time accordingly.
- Charles
Clive Coffee Thanks for the reply, I think what I meant was the recovery time after steaming and pulling shots. :)
I own the mechanika V slim and it is the highlight of my day. The steam power is a bit strong at first if you're not used to working with such power, but once you use it a few times it is a blast. I do agree that a 7 to 10 second cooling flush is necessary. I also warm my machine up for approximately 25-27 minutes. I've found that to be the sweet spot. Love the red on the knobs. It is durable yet easily moveable. I have it paired with a specialita and they work seamless together. Thanks for the video.
@@npb3010 That's such a fun setup. We're also big fans of the touch of red on the knobs.
do they have antiburn steam wand?
Yes! Both have no-burn steam wands.
- Charles
How long does it take to heat up each of these machines?
We recommend about 25 minutes to ensure it's fully heated.
Not true on flushing the 500. It uses a thermosyphon system with a restrictor, which eliminates the need for flushing.
Great video as always. Correct me if I am wrong I thought they were the same company? Like Lexus and Toyota
Sister companies, But which one is Toyota & Which one is lexus ;) ?!
@@corruptedkid4145 I have ECM Classikca PID Not Mechanika V Slim HX so i must say ECM is Lexus hahahaha, any thoughts?
@@erocks2858 im looking to buy either the ecm classika or profitec pro 500. I need help!
@@corruptedkid4145 You have to decide what you want on your espresso machine, Classika will come with PID which i was looking for and Pro 500 is Heat Exchanger which you have to control the water temp by releasing it before you extract. Do your research before you commit. I looked about a month before i pulled the trigger.
@@erocks2858 Yes the pro 500 also has a PID. this would be my first hx machine. Ive had 2 barista express over 5 years but want something that will last 10 min. I was dead set on the classika but if im spending that much i may want to jump up to the 500.
How much the machine?which is the cheapest one?
Profitec has DIP... end of discussion for me. But should it be?
Thank you for comparing. I hope at the end of the presentation you write the differences between them and not just talk
HX machines all need a cooling flush.
MaraX: hold my espresso.
That's good though. Heat exchangers produce more flavorful espresso that double boilers due to the declining temp profile. Cooling flush it is!
@@limer4330 you mean double boiler temps decline during the shot? There's something to be said for the hx boiler size being easier to recycle between shots too. An americano will slow it down but it can handle consecutive shots and milk easy. I just wish they had a rotary pump option!
Not true on flushing the 500. It uses a thermosyphon system, which eliminates the need for flushing.
@@braticuss all e61 groups use a thermosyphon. The point is you need pid in the hx at two points and automated flushing (the marax will happily drain its tank if left to its own devices) or the brew head temp will get too hot.
@@ironmantooltime I rushed that response a bit. It's less the PID that allows for no flushing and more, at least in the 500's case, the thermosiphon restrictor and good tuning. Many 500 owners can attest to this.
As long as we are talking about national stereotypes: The weird thing about these machines is that they should be designed in Italy and built in Germany. That would be more assuring. Italians have beautiful designs, but are not exactly known for practicality, attention to detail, and build quality. The Germans are know for precision and engineering. Germans might counter Italian design excess that undermines performance. Seems like the German-design and Italian-construction slogan plays to each culture’s weakness. I’m still buying one, but the current bi-national sales slogan doesn’t move the needle for me.
Search UA-cam for a tour of the ECM factory. The engineers don't just sit at a desk in Germany, they work on the floor of the factory in Milan. They oversee all areas of production and ensure that the machines are built according to their spec. The tolerances and quality assurance are absolutely top notch. The reason why it's smart to build these machines in Italy is that Milan is the world capital of espresso machines so there's an entire local industry around supplying parts. This is the same reason computer/phone makers like Apple build everything in China: the local supply chain can't easily be duplicated in another country.
Interesting point. My Mechanika V Slim came with an improperly connected steam valve and was leaking hot steam onto the Gicar brain, static relay and other nearby electrical. What tipped me off was water collecting under the machine, and eventually the blackened Gicar brain cover. I prefer German design and build when it comes to guns and cameras, and would love to see their handiwork on an espresso machine. Clive's support has been top shelf.