Heat Exchangers With PIDs - Are They Worth It?
Вставка
- Опубліковано 1 сер 2019
- Heat exchanger espresso machines deliver plenty of power at reasonable prices, but why put a PID on one? Join Charles as he tests the Profitec Pro 500 PID and ECM Mechanika V Slim with a scace device to determine if there's really a point in getting a heat exchanger machine with a PID.
Used in this video:
Profitec Pro 500 PID: clivecoffee.com/products/prof...
ECM Mechanika V Slim: clivecoffee.com/products/ecm-...
Profitec T64 Espresso Grinder: clivecoffee.com/products/prof...
Eureka Silenzio Espresso Grinder: clivecoffee.com/products/eure...
ECM Angled Bottomless Portafilter: clivecoffee.com/products/ecm-...
For more knowledge on all things espresso check out our blog: clivecoffee.com/blogs/learn
Subscribe to our channel: / clivecof. .
Instagram: / clivecoffee
Twitter: / clivecoffee
Facebook: / clivecoffeepdx
Pinterest: / clivecoffee - Навчання та стиль
Good, no-BS vids from this lad! Clear, direct and no fluff. Superb!
Concise, factual and to the point. Love it!
A very good video, clear and concise. I opted for a non PID HX machine as I was looking for less complexity and long term repair costs. Adding a thermometer to the group gives me control without complexity and fast bouceback from shots. I also prefer the Slims narrow footprint. I totally understand why you would opt for a PID if your priorities were different.
Love this! So informative
Just picked up my pro 500 with PID its a dream! Perfect for my partner who prefers milk drinks but accurate enough for me to get fancy with my straight shots of light roasts :D
congrats. great vid!
Thank you!
Super helpful
Great video as always thanks a lot
Glad you enjoyed it
Kelso with all the knowledge.
Heat exchangers are a learning curve. I use an Eric’s Thermometer on the E61. End of issue. Now just figure a consistent temp before flushing or not (cold machine to desired temp.,or temp.after first double shot!). Now with long preinfusion (15-20 sec.) my brew temps are very stable. You just have to play with it.
True I have a temp gauge on my Rocket I’m like at 205 206 before flush by end of shot I’m like 200 end of story. I think the pid would be better served on a single boiler machine or double. Yes the hotter the boiler the more steam but dam I’m not running a cafe I got a lot of steam dam machine is HOT!
I just added a flo-control device. Now my expresso is so much better! Take about 5 minutes to install. I did not use the gauge because I want to monitor temperature instead. I start with low flow (like a preinfusion, then increase flow, then drop it down for a smooth finish).
I think that PIDs, with their solid state switching are more reliable than p-stats in this day and age. Quicker switching, less wear and tear, less customers opening their machines, less warranty returns.
I’m looking for help on selecting and installing a PID on an Expobar Alfa Ruggero.
Question Charles: When you say that it is better to have a lower steam pressure for cappuccino, why is it? I thought that more was just better, unless so much ghat you weren't able to control it anymore. I've bumped my Rocket R58 from 1.2 to 1.5 bars which is it's maximum and wow, that 0.3 makes a huge difference! I can hardly believe that it is good to use these newer ECM such as the 800 and "Synchronika" at 2.0bar as you are most likely going to overshoot and burn ur milk from just staying 2 seconds longer, or splash the milk on the machine?
Also, are you gonna get more bubbles for the Cap, if you can inject air for a longer period even though the pressure is lower?
how does the temp stability compare on the new LUCCA X58 against the Pro 500
Great information. Had to replay a lot of parts because he speaks so quickly.
Yeah same here! Also wish it was a bit longer and more detailed, like 5min instead of 2.5
Simply go into Settings and adjust Playback speed to 0.75 if the dialog is too fast.
@@LorenzoNW Wow! Thank you!
As I often have to do....you can slow down UA-cam by hitting the comma key. To speed back up to normal...or...to speed up a slow talker, hit the period key.
Thanks for the information!!
Can you help me to decide, which will be a better choice: the Rancilio Silvia Pro X or Profitec Pro 500?
I just want to know overall which will be a better choice prices are pretty similar but for me I need to know the best value for the money.
The Silvia Pro X is by far our best espresso machine for under 2K. Highly recommend taking a serious look at that unit. Can't ever go wrong with a powerful dual-boiler!
Is there a practical retrofit kit that would work on my ECM Technika?
There isn't a complete retrofit kit that we know of. Our techs assure me that this is theoretically possible but would be a "monumental PITA." I'm not sure how unleavened bread factors into this but hopefully that makes more sense to you.
- Charles
So does having a PID on a HX machine, sacrifice steam pressure for a more stable and appropriate brew temp, vs a traditional pressure stat hx machine? Also does a more stable temperature actually improve shot quality? Some variation might not necessarily be bad.
Hey Ben,
A PID on a heat exchanger does not reduce steam pressure whatsoever. If anything it increases the steam pressure by allowing the machine to achieve and maintain a higher boiler temperature overall. As for shot quality, I find a consistent brew temperature is important for predictable extractions. If brew temperature varies you can imagine your shot will also be impacted. Hope this helps!
-Amanda
@@clivecoffee cool I was just wondering if anyone experimented with varying temperature vs stable, same with variation in grind size or we just assume consistancy is always best?
Update I got a HX machine with a PID, definitely more than enough steam pressure! Adjusting the temp, does make the pressure rise or fall with temperature, but still much more powerful and quick than my old machine using a thermoblock steamer, even on the lowest temp / pressure.
I know I’m late to the game here but….. is this showing that heat exchange with PID may have a concern for accurate espresso temps?
@@mikechadinha5587 I ended up selling my Rocket HX machine with a PID and got an ECM synchronika dual boiler temperatures are much more stable and controllable with the Dual boiler. I found adjusting and PID didn't really have much effect on brew temperature on the HX machine. If you do get a HX machine I'd recommend getting the group thermometer with it so you could get a better idea of what's going on temperature wise.
What is the warm up time for the machines before the 7 second cooling flush? Is not mentioned on the video.
About 20 mins in full.
Is there any way to add a PID to a Rocket Appartamento?
Not practically. But it would be a waste of time. Swapping a PSTAT for a PID on a machine will make no difference to brew water temperature assuming you run the machine at the same boiler pressure. If you change the plumbing at the same time you may make some difference (like installing a different thermosyphon restrictor) but that has noting to do with a PID or PSTAT.
If you own a HX machine (PID or PSTAT) the best thing you can do is invest in a group head thermometer. Brew water temperature is dominated by group head temp.
Hi what would you recommend between the pro500 and pro600?
If you want the most seamless espresso making experience, go for the Pro 600!
Is a PID worth it on a single boiler , like a rancilio silvia ?
Hi there! A PID on a single boiler can certainly open up a world of experimentation and versatility if you like a wide range of coffees. I always find darker roasts can greatly benefit greatly from a slightly lower temperature. If you typically stick to one or two roasts a machine without a PID may be sufficient for you. Hope this helps!
-Amanda
The single stainless steal 33-ounce boiler with PID on the ECM Clasikia is very accurate.
Silvia is definitely no stable regarding brew temp, you would need to perform a temperature surfing to achieve the suitable brew temp, otherwise your shot will never be consistent. I know that Silvia Pro DB comes with PID but i am not sure if the single boiler comes with it from factory. but i am sure you can buy the PID separately and install it.
I always brew first. Hot portafilter, wait for light to go out, brew. Oh so sweet! Then turn on steam switch. Rancilio I think designed it this way?
Steam milk first was always a bad experience for me.
@@Will-bp2yc Me, too.
I really wish they wouldn't place the PID below the drip tray. What a weird place to put it.
They have changed it in recent months.
Just got this in my email, why? It's over a year old.
I can't tell the difference between shots pulled at slightly different temperatures, though some can I suspect for the majority it's like blind tasting wine where most can't really tell the difference between expensive and moderately priced decent. Marketing? you must buy the machine with the PID as that's better? I don't have a flow paddle either but I like the coffee I make and that's really all it's about.
°F ???
Yes.
If you could also mention the temperature in °C, then we from the EU will also be able to understand what the temperature is.@@clivecoffee
@@MrAalestrup You can easily do a conversion! We only sell equipment in the United States.
@@clivecoffeeyes, I sense that. But since UA-cam is for everyone in all countries, when you make a video you could also write on the screen the unit measurements that apply to the EU, for example. In addition, I see a weak development where more and more people in the USA adopt the meter system. If you are not familiar with the meter system, you should try to understand it, it is really easy to use and calculate. :) Even though your video is over 4 years old, it is still relevant worldwide when it comes to understanding our machines.
Thanks for the feedback! @@MrAalestrup
All these videos about PID, temperature and pressure and literally no one talks about the actual taste of the coffee.
Feel free to leave any questions or ideas on what type of content you'd like to see!
@@clivecoffee talk about taste
Pid is a gimick. Marketing trick. 100 years milions Italians drank their excellent espressos 6 times per day. Without pid. Already control doses, grinding and time is difficult for me. What if I change the temperature and choose a wrong grinding grade. Will be espresso better taste?
if you largely brew dark roast its mostly useless, for light roast however it does make a difference. But I agree it's mostly about the machine having the right temperature, e.g. hot enough
Smacking your mouth EVERY SINGLE SENTENCE! Come on!
Objectively had a lingual snap roughly once every 6 seconds, so there’s the facts versus your statement to consider..... Maybe listen to the coffee machine information on this channel and the peculiarities of pronunciation and speech on a channel about speech.
@@toddcrosby2783 Wasn't talking to you
Be nice. He is very helpful, and it’s free advice!
@@Will-bp2yc Be gone. He gets paid for it by me watching ads, so it's for me to decide if he does a good job. And it's not helpful at all if i can't finish the video because of his annoying lipsmacking.
@@heavymetal4497 Pro tip: no one gives a fuck about you or your opinion. Now be a good boy and shut the fuck up :D