Metallica Producer: CLIFF vs JASON, Making JUSTICE, PUPPETS, LIGHTNING Missing Bass Stranger Things
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- Опубліковано 6 кві 2024
- Metallica producer Flemming Rasmussen (Ride The Lightning, Master of Puppets, ...And Justice For All) discusses the making of those three albums, Cliff Burton's Death, Jason Newsted's relationship with Metallica, the missing bass on And Justice, his reaction to Jason leaving the band, his thoughts on the Black Album, Load, ReLoad, Anger and much more.
Metallica's lineup at the time of RTL & MOP consisted of James Hetfield, Kirk Hammett, Lars Ulrich & Cliff Burton. Metallica's lineup at the time of AJFA consisted of James Hetfield, Kirk Hammett, Lars Ulrich & Jason Newsted, who joined the band following the death of Cliff Burton.
RTL's tracklist is as follows: Fight Fire With Fire, Ride The Lightning, For Whom The Bell Tolls, Fade To Black, Trapped Under Ice, Escape, Creeping Death, The Call Of Ktulu.
MOP's tracklist is as follows: Battery, Master of Puppets, The Thing That Should Not Be, Welcome Home (Sanitarium), Disposable Heroes, Leper Messiah, Orion, Damage Inc.
AJFA's tracklist is as follows: Blackened, …And Justice For All, Eye of the Beholder, One, The Shortest Straw, Harvester of Sorrow, The Frayed Ends of Sanity, To Live is to die, Dyers Eve.
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Cheers,
Daniel
Ride the Lightning, Master of Puppets, or ...And Justice for All?
too hard to choose, also depends on the day 😉
Haha, all 3 albums are awesome.
@@kBlueberry2024Same I can’t decide lol
@@kBlueberry2024Definitely a hard choice, but I’d have to say And Justice
ride the lightning
Flemming was legit the 5th member. He made history...a few times.
Flemming’s contribution to Metallica is definitely underrated
Flemming > Bob schmuck Rock
@@ilicdjo sure the black album has good songs, but Fleming helped make Metallica.
Don't go so far with the first one.
But he definetely made history with them
@@VanAnon51 Cliff helped make Metallica. Their evolution started under his influence.
But yeah Flemming let the band do what they wanna do and it was almost everytime right.
I wish Metallica would do another album with Flemming
SAME!!!!
Exactly . It's absurd . Probably cause He will tell Lars the drums are ridiculous .
Why they haven't by now is beyond ridiculous. I wonder what the real reason is as to why they haven't yet. Too many magic tricks back then as compared to now or what? Confusing since those were simply the best form of Metallica that ever existed.
I've never fallen for that "we did it to haze Jason" or "we were grieving for Cliff". remember Garage Days? the EP that came out before it? massive bass. THAT would have been the release that they were hazing or grieving & taking it out on Jason. they didnt. Lars & James were going for a specific sound; a dry, clinical sound with the kick drum punching through like a typewriter. it changed the course of metal.... every thrash and death metal band had clicky kick drum from that point onward.
they were also burned out and more than a little deaf...they mixed that album between shows on tour....play show, fly to studio, get loaded, mix, fly to show, repeat.
TBA had plenty of bass too.
I'm not buying your hypothesis. I chose to specialise bass in the early days because modern electric bass is the most tremendous big dick sound I've ever heard, and when played tight and glued to the kick drum is even more tremendous. You've heard and justice for jason, its objectively a superior mix. I've done a recording of blackened, and over compensated for all the years of hearing no bass, by over playing the bass and it sounds even more fucking tremendous. We'll never know the real reason why they turned jason down but it certainly wasn't because they were going for some "specific sound". Its a masterful album and they ruined it for some reson.
@@bassedtaz and justice for jason is a terrible mix. its mix by someone that that doesn't have a clue about mixing. The bass is simply put on top as the loudest instrument (like it is the lead) It's the stupidest mix I have ever heard
@@bassedtaz What I kind of like (and also dislike) about Metallica is that, they're not doing a remixed version. Hah, I want Justice to Jason and all that, but in the end, is not sticking to their guns about the Justice mix also saying: "We fucked up, you can all listen to how we fucked up and learn from our mistakes"? And even Jason let that thing go, saying they pretty much did that to Cliff, too.
It's kind of sad because what Jason's doing down there on Justice is more intricate than most people realise and, say, Hetfield gives him credit for. He seems to have a distinct way of playing bass guitar that, say, Trujillo or even Burton probably couldn't touch. It's recognizable, it's breathable and it's signaturely his way. I recently listened to that Tina Turner song where Newsted played bass. The chops were insanely familiar, even though it was a softer song. I believe it's also rooted in what Bob Rock had said to him about Black Album and Metallica: dude, in this band, you don't play bass conventionally and you've got a limitless space to play in in the bass area. I think I know what Bob meant.
Fleming produced the holy trinity
*Flemming
@@coyleigh Phlegming
Crazy story about Cliff, imagine one of your friends in a band dying but not knowing which one.
That struck me too.
@@Jayteaseepiirturi Always wondered how Metallica would’ve turned out if Cliff didn’t die.
@@benhemperson5963 Or if Jason didn't leave or if Dave wasn't fired etc etc. While I can appreciate how much they all love Cliff and whatever they learned from him concerning music and all... there are times that it goes a bit overboard.
Having that said... Imagine Justice with Cliff. Now that's a riot. :D
@@Jayteaseepiirturi Do you think musically Metallica would have taken the same path during the Load/ReLoad era if Cliff was still in the band?
Agreed there’s so many variables but it’s interesting to think about the alternate possibilities
@@benhemperson5963 Okay, fine. I'm gonna let out the fanboy. :D I'm from Jason era so it's really hard to say. But a part of me thinks Burton might have wanted things to get a bit more... I don't know, progressive? Justice might have well been in line with all that. But I don't know, the kind of fella Cliff seems to be by all the descriptions, Loads seem to be right down his alley.
A lot of Mercyful Fate and King Diamond were also recorded at his studio never forget he did the best Blind Guardian albums and Morbid Angel Covenant
The beatles have released like everything they ever recorded.
Its not a crime to give us justice with bass.
Such a wasted opportunity… This whole thing about a ‘snapshot in time’… The mix is off. Nothing deserves a remix more than Justice.
This interview should have way more views. This is great content!
It's only two days old, give it time.
Thanks Matt! How’d you like this one compared to the first Metallica interview?
🤞🏻
Stumbled across your channel recently, been great listening to all the interviews during my long commutes. Got a new subscriber keep it up
Thanks man, appreciate it. Cheers.
That was a bunch of really good questions dude thank you.
You're welcome man, cheers.
Thank you for doing this! Great interview!
Thanks heaps mate, great interview with such an amazing producer. I remember feeling so crestfallen when reading Metallica had gone to Bob Rock.
Metallica referenced Motley Crue as one of the reasons for choosing Bob Rock. I was always surprised that they publicly stated that. Back then, the Crue was a line in the sand.
Nowadays, $$ rules. Nothing Else Matters.
(😂sorry!)
@@angelotro Yeah, that statement had a cash register ring to it.
And now you can hear how much worse things have gotten sonically since Bob Rock, right?
@@angelotroThey referenced Crue AND Bon Jovi's records that Rock produced. But James specified "but the bands sucked and the songs were f@cking g@y.".
@@toddmorrissey8372 if you mean post Bob Rock with Rubin... much of a muchness for me. James just doesn't have enough co-contributors for any producer to fix.
My favorite producer of all time. His Morbid Angel work was killer too. If you compare Metallica demos of Master compared to the mix Flemming ended up finishing with, it was an incredible difference.
It's terrible they don't make a great record with him stat.
Lets not forget he produced Blind guardian s best albums "Imaginations from the other side" and "Nightfall in middle earth"! Legend!
They should have brought this man back to produce a few albums ago. Should produce their last album at least.
Would be super cool
Do u think they’d capture the same vibe?
100%. Fidelman is overdone as their producer/eng. Too scared to tell them no. Too many yes men all around them in their Metalli-bubble. The albums have just gotten mushier and lazier, esp from Lars and Kirk. They need someone like Bob or Flemming that will call them out on what sucks or not. Where to edit. What the tones need to be. They also need an outsider to mix. The more involved James and Lars are in that part, the worse the result seems to have been. Andy Sneap for example would do a great job with them. The new Priest album sounds brilliant.
@@pgbangarang8394you really have no clue what you’re on about. Flemming didn’t call them out much and hetfield and lars controlled everything on them first 4 albums
Why Cliff and Kirk were gunning for Lars' head lol . ..Cliff and Kirk informed those records, Lars got very lucky .
Awesome interview, awesome video 🤘
Thanks Terence
Daniel I love your interviews, such great Q's 🙂
Thanks a lot! Appreciate it
Honestly, great interview. Its very insightful and well done. We appreciate this. It would be very poetic if Metallica and Flemming worked on an album together again. They dont need to make a super commercial album. They could go full on raw/old school if they wanted
Thanks a lot, appreciate it & agreed, it would be awesome if Flemming and Metallica did another album together.
I hear what you're saying, but Metallica is locked in to recording at HQ, LOOKING at the music(vs. LISTENING) on a grid and quantizing everything. Not much of difference Fleming could make unless they went into an outside studio, and agreed to a totally different sonic concept. I mean, they have their own label (Blackened) and literally their own vinyl album pressing plant.
Great interview. Great questions. Interviewer is pro. Well done. 👍👍
Thanks a lot Greg
As if seeing the "Piece of Mind" cassette being held with Eddie Munson shouted "...this IS music!!!!" wasn't enough... the INSTANT I'd heard the first E power chord stab in the opening riff for Master of Puppets that Eddie played in the upside-down, present-day me shouted "yyyyYYYYEEESSS!!!!!!!" as if I were at a Metallica concert, and 12-year-old me felt validated, and almost vindicated, that more people actually DID love this music after all.
Awesome interview; always love all these insights and behind-the-scenes info... thank you both, Gentlemen.
Long live Metallica.
(Fan since 1988.)
\m/, (*o*) ,\m/
Thank you Fern, you're very welcome. & agreed, it's cool that Master of Puppets got an homage in one of the biggest shows out there. I personally haven't watched Stranger Things yet though, I gotta get on that lol.
@@DanielSarkissian It's really a ton of fun. Enjoy!
Thanks Fern, cheers.
SAME!! When I saw the master of puppets scene I was like YAAAAAA 😂 So cool they actually did that
Which season of Stranger Things does this happen?
Really great interview man!
Thanks man
I was really surprised hearing Master of Puppets on Stranger Things lol
Awesome interview!! ❤
Thanks man 🇮🇪
Interesting interview. I dropped out after Justice. Still love those early records 40 years later. It capped my metal years, although I recently got Justice on the Walmart lp. Sounds better than the cd. There’s a bit more bass with the lp so I suspect it was remastered a tinge.I really wish they had added Jason’s musicianship back in. I know, I know. Controversial.
Interesting, so you never got into the black album? And I had no idea the CD version of Justice sounds different
@@anthonyroberts1424Two things-I was clobbered by radio play with the Black Album as my group of friends, many of which, didn’t get the earlier vibe. Me and my buddy veered away. Those first 4 was our scene. It was hard as a fan letting go of the private club of it all. Bob Rock definitely made them more accessible and I missed that edge. It was the second time in short years that it had happened. Nirvana’s Bleach was my kind of record , then Nevermind landed. It was omnipresent. Then Kurt was taken, and I’ve only recently been able to listen to them again. Mostly to do with the tragedy of how it all went down. I so wish he was still making music. I’ll have to give the Black lp another go with fresh ears.
Yes…I noticed a difference with the new lp. I can’t say they turned up Jason’s bass parts, but they warmed it up with some bass frequencies. It’s a bit less sterile sounding(could be a digital artifact) and I loved that album but even in its day, we knew the bass was missing? I never did hear the original vinyl. Having said that, I haven’t compared the two sources I own and don’t know? If they did, it was without overly compressing it like you hear on many new records.I’m not always a fan of remasters-I don’t actually know if they did remaster it. I know my stereo is better so maybe that’s to do with it. Sometimes you can hear the album as it was meant to be heard. Some recent remixed/remastered Replacement records definitely benefited. I only knew the Justice cd from its release. I worked in a record store as those early albums came out during the hair metal heyday and what a breath of fresh air it was. I actually got to see them on the Justice tour and they killed. Loud, tight as hell, and sounded great. Best part, (and I wondered if it would happen to me at the time as I looked around at ‘adult’s’ in the 80’s)…..as I’ve aged, I never lost my love for music and for turning it up to 11’. Maybe I never grew up.
It’s beautiful lime green, great sounding vinyl from their own pressing plant.
@@GIBKEL That’s a really interesting comparison you just made between early Nirvana & Metallica, I think the black album may have been more beneficial to Metallica than Nevermind was to Nirvana in the sense that Metallica mania lasted longer in my opinion: In Utero was actually outsold by Pearl Jam VS pre Kurt’s death. If Kurt didn’t die I think the black album would still be bigger than Nevermind, but in either case yes seeing the mainstream eat up Metallica changed the “vibe”
@@GIBKEL If the black album didn’t get as big as it did, do you think Metallica would have stayed closer to their roots musically?
@@GIBKEL And in terms of CD vs Vinyl vs Cassette, I never really thought the sound would be that different but now you’ve got me thinking lol. That’s killer you got to see Metallica live during the Justice tour, how would compare their live performances now?
Fantastic interview
This was so worth the wait
This is you tube gold
Awesome and entertaining
Thank you Daniel
Thank you Brian! Appreciate it.
@@DanielSarkissian killer interview, thanks Daniel
Thanks Jake, cheers.
@@DanielSarkissianhe is right fantastic interview
Thank you Leon.
If they ever make another album , they have to have Fleming produce.
Imagine how excited fans would be if they announced they were doing this. I’d flip out
After cliff died they should have had lars play bass, imagine how loud it would have been on the next album 🙄
It was loud on the next album, TBA. Also loud on Garage Days.
Great interview
Thanks Claus
I agree with James being a great musician and one of the greatest rhythm guitarist ever!
Justice was the first album I bought and puppets was the last Metallica album I heard in 1994/95
I knew of Metallica during Kill em All but never heard them till the compilation album (Music for Nations) in the summer of 1984 Creeping Death was on there. They were instantly the greatest band I ever heard & got Ride imediatly.They were still on Mega Force then. So, Ride is a 10, Master 9 1/2, Justice is 4th for me after Kill.
Someone way more determined than me needs to make a video about wizard of oz’s connections to rock and metal music👀
Master & Justice was the first 2 CDs I owned. All 3 albums are not just Metallic’s best work, but IMO the pinnacle of great heavy metal music. 🤘
I think that 99% of Metallica fans totally disagree. The "Flemming Albums" are Metallicas best Albums. Not by accident called "Holy Trinity". Not by accident, with TBA, Metallicas highest ranking albums in the greates Records of all Time.
There were a few gems on Load and Reload. Unforgiven II is a beast, and The Outlaw Torn was super 'heavy' for that era, post thrash.
His big pause when asked about the Load/Reload albums was quite funny 😄
Fixxxer too 2014
+1 on Master of Puppets coming out slightly above the other releases. Orion by itself IMHO would push any album over the top.
I have pictures of Cliff and I standing in front of the bus flipping off the camera. He was super nice. The nicest person in the band. Lars was also super nice.
They talked about whether Cliff played the intro to Battery, but I heard he played the intro to Fight Fire with Fire. Anyone know if that’s true?
I'd love to see those three albums not just get a remaster, but a full remix. With mixing techniques and hardware/software nowadays, those albums could be absolutely unbelievable. I have the recent MOP vinyl remaster, it sounds quite flat and not a lot of space to it, and the remastering level is extremely low.
And AJFA could do with a remix to inject some life into the audio of the songs, along with some bass.😉
Master of puppets, my favourite!!
Mesa Boogie Mark 2 C++, was perhaps $1,500 back then. Now $10,000.
Maybe I'm getting ahead of myself, but judging from the description.....
....look I know very, VERY well that Flemming has been eating off the Metallica albums for 40 years, but it would be nice if an interview asked him about Morbid Angel and Blind Guardian and the other bands he's produced.
The Ensiferum records were great too, in a way he’s underrated af
Which Blind Guardian did he produce?
@@Skoora Imaginations From The Other Side and Nightfall In Middle Earth.
@@Skoora Imaginations and did a lot of work on Nightfall as well
Thanks for the BG references 👍
I definitely miss Jason
James just swinging his balls around . That said . Down and stuff did erode PanterA and dlr n Eddie doing outside things started to break vH down it was kind of a valid point, when bands do outside things, it's often the road away from the MissioN/m\ ya know . .
It's an interesting thing that so often happens: For all of Lars' shorcomings in a live setting a lot of people - even some great drummers - recognize him as the talented but criminally unpolished drummer that he is. It took me getting to my 40's to realise Lars' philosophy as a drummer of a band and how absolutely right it is.
Yes, he has his shortcomings in the live setting. Let's take that for granted. There's no denying that. But also, that's Metallica as a whole.
So what I discovered Lars' philosophy to be is to work with the music. Any genre, any style, don't play the flashy thing. Play the RIGHT thing. It's pretty ironic knowing how big of an ego he sometimes seems to have (well, truthfully, his ego lies in his snaredrum. When I listen to Metallica it always feels like the snaredrum is on my lap).
Now that in this video Rasmussen reminds us that he is from a jazz family, it all falls into place for me. Of course, it's so simple that it's almost retarded. Jazz musicians are the masters of slipping into the pocket in an ensemble. If this is what Lars has been watching when growing up, why would that not rub off on his way of applying his instrument also on metal? Or any genre, if you will.
This sheds more light into his character as... not so much as a drummer but a piece of an ensemble.
Lars is Metallicas drummer. Thats it. His playing is perfect for the band he formed with James. It doesn`t matter that he is not respected by other drummers, there is no denying what he and his band have done. Long after all these conversations are over about best drummers, Metallica will stand the test of time. They will be held in the same regards as The Beatles, Rolling Stones, Led Zep, Pink Floyd. Heck, they reached that status a long time ago.
@@ernestbuckley8671 ...... And your point with this regarding my post?
Like Ringo!
@@davifernandeslima01 I'll give you that, while I'm good with executing music, I'm horrible at listening to it. And... well, Beatles have never appealed to me. :) But if you say so, I shall take your word for it. Plus Ringo is freakishly consistent in his simplicity.
Dude, Lars made a conscious decision not to maintain his chops years ago. Nevermind IMPROVING. When a guy can't play the parts he played night-after-night years ago, thats a major issue. He's an excellent arranger and song structure guy, and that's been his focus for over 20 years now.
This is probably not a correct question, but.. Why is there no double bass on Lightning, in the title song, in Fade to black and trapped under the ice? The trap is under the ice, Lars is there, the double bass is kicking the whole song. But you can't hear it. I only realized this when I listened to a separate drum track.
In Demag Inc, the last verse, the double bass is heard, then not heard. He appears and disappears. Let's say in the Battery, everything is heard well and evenly. There is fire in the fight, the double bass can also be heard normally.
Why wasn't the volume adjusted on the songs I listed, fade, lightning, trap?
Are you saying there is double bass on ride the lightning fade to black and trapped under ice but we just can’t hear it? If that’s true that’s cool, didn’t know that
@@benhemperson5963 Yeah, the kick drum is really low when you think about it. Maybe Lars held a grudge and that's why the bass on Justice is so low.
because thats the way metal was mixed in the 80's.... before And Justice For All. kick drums werent highly compressed or pushed to the forefront. it was mixed "as it was played". this tie's in with the whole "why was Jason turned down in the mix". because in 88 Lars & James decided to make the kickdrum ultra punchy and dominate. it became the norm after 88, but seriously listen to some Venom, Kreator and Possessed records from 1982-1986.... thats how metal was produced @user-Tulpa9Na6Metle
@@benhemperson5963 Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying, the album "Ride the Lightning" is full of double bass, but you can hear it more or less well, only on fight fire with fire. I'm just writing with a translator, it's confusing.
@@coldacre Dude, I heard what you're talking about. I listened to Sleer, Anthrax, metal church, other bands of the early 80s, and ... I know what you're talking about, but...in my opinion, these bands, on the contrary, tried to emphasize the double bass, and metallica seemed to be the opposite.Metallica has well-accented kicks with cymbals), but the double bass, until the 88th year, sounded just like a inaudible.
Even kill em all, everything is bad there in terms of legs, not only with the double bass, but also with twos. On kill em all, the feet are heard even worse than on Lightning. Not all groups had this problem. Many even with such a "barrel" sound, rather than a flat "justice" sound, sounded clearer than the double bass on the first three metallica albums.
im 51. he stated it clearly at the beginning. master is obviously the "better" album...but lightning is the best album they ever made. while master paints a detailed picture and has smooth fades in and out and is clearly the mans "piece from knowing" that he is good. however, for the average teenage listener, lightning has a sound that still attaches to the average life of a kid. it sounds like the band is in the next bedroom slowly cranking it up until you realize...its fucking metallica. also, fade to black is absolutely haunting and its not the guitars and vocals alone that make that happen. its the production. lightning rules.
I agree, RTL always resonates with me the most.
It's all in the ears of the listner. "...and Justice for All" is the only Metallica album I still somewhat regularily listen to, and to me it's their best album, obviously. I'm not saying by any means that I think RtL and MoP are bad albums, but Justice is just more my thing.
I really like and respect Flemming and his work, but just gonna say, when I hear his point that effectively "Jason should've stood his ground and told the band to shove off"....I feel like I'm hearing an argument on the subject pitched completely from Lars Ulrich's point of view.
The Newstead situation is 100% the lowest point in the band's legacy. I've watched Newstead interviews and _as he tells the story_, it doesn't portray them (Lars and particularly James) in a very flattering light. So when I hear Flemming hypothesize "and if he'd been more obstinate Jason might still be in Metallica", I feel that idea misses the mark. I don't agree, because the personality conflict between Newstead and Hetfield and Ulrich was never going away, and it would have fractured the band eventually.
Sure, but I think it was a stupid thing to ask him to begin with. How should he know? It's a little like asking why a couple you knew 15 years ago, and had no affiliation with since then, recently broke up.
no one is going to derail an album's production because of a new band member. james and lars were burned out and deaf as posts while they were mixing that record. playing shows, red eye flying back and forth to studios to mix, drinking hard, cocaine...... simple as that.
After 3:45.If Flemming 'speculation' is right it was the most stupid way to provoke Jason. Even if we put away all that emotional stuff and their relations with each other we would get people who made the album sounding worse. Was it worth it? I don't think so
When I first can joyn an existing band first I try to adapt and not being edgy.... Jason did it right.
I totally prever the singing of Hetfield in the 80s albums.
James vocals in the 80s actually were much better! The power, the anger and the aggression were much better suited to Metallica's sound. However, this is always a question of taste... Some people who like the Black Album better than Justice or Puppets will see it the other way around.
Flemming is great! One thing though: intro on Damage Inc is backward bass and not guitars. It's Cliff who was inspired by a piece of Bach.
can you please put chapters in your videos? or at least timestamps in the description? Thank you. 🍺🇨🇦
It's criminal they haven't recorded anything with Flemming since 1988.
Would love to hear some stories about him recording the Morbid Angel "Covenant" album.
Maybe I’m crazy but I actually like And Justice’s sound without the bass 🤷🏻♂️
oh i do too
@@soldaccount2022 Why do you think some people hate on it so much lol?
@@JamesC1971cus it has no bass lol. Sounds empty and midrangy
It makes it stand out from all the other metal bands with that more prominent bass sound in the mix. For sure. Yet still dark and heavy as fuk.
@El...Preyeah..the idea was to make a jagged sharp edge heavy metal album where the drums stood out. The bass would soften the sound. Metal back then was not a bass oriented genre.
A Remastered version of And Justice For All could easily be done with today’s technology. At this point in Metallica’s career and accomplishments, as a band the fans and Jason Newsted deserve more respect. Bring back the BASS!
check out Ahdy Khairat here on UA-cam, he did a couple of remix+remasters of the AJFA songs that had Jason's actual bass stems released with the Guitar Hero Metallica game. They're not just him slapping the raw bass track into the mix too, he actually adjusted all of the instruments and created a new sound.
They'll have to go back and remix it all rather than just remaster it.
@@panamajack5972love his remixes. Sounds like new songs in some cases.
You know you can buy remastered justice right now, yes? I think you mean remixed tho. ..but that will never happen. Watch dodgey UA-cam mixes if you're aching.
You seem to be one of those people who think artists owe fans something... they don't!
Legend
Def miss Jason in Metallica
That Frayed Ends intro however is not exactly the one from Oz. The Oz version is a 5th interval where as the Frayed one is a diminished 5th evil tone. So I never understood why everybody keeps saying it is FROM the Oz. It certainly sounds influenced from there but it isn't truly it.
Well sir they had to pay to use it.
@@JoeBlanton-wq3sm I can't corroborate if that is absolutely true or not. If it is true however, it is quite odd indeed since it is not a sample of the original.
@@TaureanMixing It doesn't have to be. It's very clear that it was derived from Oz because of the chanting, the rhythm of it, the feel. If you took the Enter Sandman riff and changed it just one semitone, it would still sound like the Enter Sandman riff. And you can't just take stuff, change it miniminally and get away with it.
@@roaringviking5693 Ah, thanks, I know how copyright works, it was part of training. Using Sandman riff as an example is not the same compared to this in the least. A chord progression or interval progression without clear representation of an actual song, cannot be copyrighted. Motifs are a bit tricky too. These three elements needs full melodic movement on top of them along with other musical elements, harmonies, counterpoints, etc., to create a full copyrighted work. Metallica did not do that in the least. They played a similar intervalic progression, rhythmically speaking, but a different interval in conjunction with an entirely different arrangement, instrumentation, harmony (or lack thereof). My point still stands, this story about the intro is peculiar, but interesting.
Dude, they even chant the same “ohh-eee-yo, yooo-ho!”
It’s clearly lifted.
Whether on purpose or not, at first. At least by the time they knew the connection, they intentionally leaned into it.
And I love it, anyway! Such a cool little Easter egg.
I would love to learn how he achieved the distinctive sound
So, they made the record sound worse to get Jason to push back. He doesn't... so they double down and just release an album of great songs that sound shit? Okay, sure.
It was either a coping mechanism or an ego thing of James and Lars both wanting to be loudest in the mix. Most likely both.
So if you listen to all the versions with louder bass - they really do sound like shit! So it was obviously the right decision. Jason practically doubled James' guitar, which just sounds weird.
@@fam.hunger5244 even if I agreed with your premise... which, no. All that would mean is that the album sounds shit with and without louder bass... if that's the case how are good decisions being made by anyone?
Next you'll be telling me St. Anger sounds worse with a less irritating snare sound.
@@fam.hunger5244I tend to agree. With the extremely driven tone of the VERY scooped guitars, I think they were sort of backed into a corner with regard to the final mix. The guitars have so much bass freq already that you’d almost have to boost the bass guitar to an unnatural level in order to get both audible.
I think they learned a hard lesson here that (at least with regard to mixes) they learned how to fix that problem on The Black Album.
Oh-rye-on
March of the Winkies brah (March of the Munchkins was in The Wiz)
The original and justice is the one with bass not the other way around
Why are the same questions coming up again later again? Like that anvil intro bell?
Curious what would have happened if Metallica made the black album with Flemming. It’d definitely be different, but would it still have been as big?
The obvious answer is no because Lars would have fucked up the production again. Just watch Year & A Half part 1.
@@MetalPersonJ Do you think they would have screwed up the bass sound again?
@@jakeclarkson2178 probably
To get to the next level commercially, they needed someone to tell them how the record was going to sound. Someone who could make the recorded sound accessible and have the clout to be their boss.
@@kevgamble that’s a good point, but if they stick with Flemming do you think Load/ReLoad would have happened or would they have stayed closer to thrash?
Master intro sounds similar to eye of the tiger😮
Haha I never realized that lol. Great catch James
Why is The Thing That Should Not Be not on Flemming's favorit Metallica song list? I mean its heavier than Sad But True, for sure.
Probably the best Metallica song besides Am I Evil
@@jumpfart666
Am I Evil is a cover song.
@@jumpfart666hahahahaha it’s a cover you know this, right?
One of my favorites. That intro! And the lead guitar at 3:50 in the song.
How do you measure which one is heavier?
I still think Kill Em All is the best album. It really showcased their true thrash snarky fuck you sound.
Same, I actually really like the “underproduced” sound on Kill ‘Em All, that rawness really captures that period of the band
Yes Dave Mustaine's thrash music is the greatest on planet.
@@bendup52 But Metallica is better than Dave though
It's like high school everyday with you guys. It's such a juevenile argument to always invoke Dave. @bendup52
Same here is my favorite
Also, I'll admit Flemming is a solid producer, but what it really comes down to is Lars wanted to sleep at his parents house rather than sleep in the cold attic of a studio while recording. Especially after sleeping in the shithole during the making of Kill Em All.
I feel like cliff would have gravitated towards the grunge scene (nirvana, alice in chains etc).
why doesn't anyone ever ask Flemming which guitar and pickup James used to record the albums? that would be much more interesting because nobody knows yet
Get yourself a copy of James' book Messengers... It's literally about his guitars and amps that he's used throughout his career. From his first Electra V right up to "Carl". It's a killer book 🤘🤘
The recorded Master of Puppets with james Jackson V with seymour Duncan Invader pickups for an example.
He uses a copy of flyngV more likely were cheap pickups
Because that's pretty well known. Especially when it comes to the pick-ups. And the guitars are also widely known...
The whole Jason thing is he wasn’t Alpha or Sigma ….even a little bit to deal with the shit from Lars and James …. Cliff was somebody they looked upto and did not fk with ❤ 🎸 🏴
I agree, but what does it mean when Newsted has said that they were doing it to Burton also. Vanishing him from songs and mixes.
And I have tried to hear the bass on the earlier records but it's really low there, eh? So I guess they did f*'k with him after all?
I kinda see him as their Terry Brown.
He reminds me slightly of Tim Pierce.. think its the eyes.
They rushed into getting a new member and made Jason suffer from it.
So ALL the copies that raise the bass in the mix will be better than the original. I have no problem with that.
Lars' "creative input" on Kirk's solos sucks. He should have left Kirk alone. Now that they let him play what he wants to live, it's usually way better.
In fact, all these versions with bass sound pretty shitty...
rip cliff...tell the truth i think jayson was about the best bass player back in the day ..metallic days and flotsam jetsam days..burton was never on his level
I love Jason. But that’s ridiculous.
Cliff was an innovator.
Jason would say so, himself.
WHY NOT WORK WITH HIM AGAIN?
Jason had to take it cus bro that money was good. It’s a job.
Cliffs bass was never really up front in any of the mixes of ride the lightning or master of puppets. It's always been a drum/guitar band.
Absolutely right!
5:13 remixing “Justice” with the bass back in would be actual justice for Jason and for the fans, who respectively deserve their vision included in the project and a great sounding version of a great album
"Justice for the fans" - you seem to be one of those people who think artists "owe" their fans something. They don't.
45:54 😂
Justice their best though amirite
Amazing interview but I was very heartbroken when he said he loved the Black Album... I guess he's biased cuz they're good friends but to see them grow as musicians since RTL on till Justice ... Wow, what a let down.
Why were you heartbroken he loved the black album?
@@jakeclarkson2178 because that was their thrash metal downfall
@@DEFKONSIXTYSIXlml in a sense, but do you the black album was a bad album?
@@jakeclarkson2178 Yeah it was a band that was completely brainwashed and stripped of their essence.
Grow up. Musical taste is subjective. Just because you don’t like the black album doesn’t mean everyone has to not like it.
How does he have Lars’ accent?
both europeans from close countries
Both Danish guys.
The new order
So do Black album, fine, make the money, they should have gone back and taken everyone to the best albums ever! Oh well....
22:58 talk about being gracious..lol His statement rings true from Kill ‘em All through Justice but Christ, from the mid 90’s on a total shitshow. Also Lars creativity got us St. Anger, not just the snare sound but terribly bloated arrangements. Plus there last couple where he’s obsessed with long ratta tat intros. His contribution wore out after the 80’s. Maybe he suggested the eyeliner in ‘94/‘95. 😂
I wish Metallica would give this guy a call and maybe try and get some magic out of them. They don’t have long left. They’re already kinda taking the piss from fans who will never criticize them but they’re really sloppy now. James’s voice has been blown out for 20 years now
If they do another record with Flemming again, do you think it would capture that same feel they had in the 80s, given like you said their musicianship is a bit different now?
@@anthonyroberts1424 I doubt it, since their song writing itself has been average at best since Jason left. there’s no classical music influence anymore, not a lot of melody just a lot of overkill riffs. But you never know? It’ll never be as complicated and intricate as it used to be just due to their age, But you never know? Maybe having Flemming onboard rekindles something
@@chadgrov Never thought of the classical music angle before, was Jason classically trained? Pardon my ignorance on this. I for about 20 years they explored different sounds after the black album but have gradually moved back to their old sound, the natural culmination of that hopefully would be another album with Flemming
Some say the biggest difference between Metallica and Megadeth is the music. The fact is the biggest difference between both bands is about 300 million dollars. When you have that much it isn’t a band anymore. It’s a brand. Metallica can never make another master of puppets cause there’s not drive to do so. Back then those albums didn’t sell well. It wasn’t until the black album where they actually seen what a record can do. Ever since then they changed their formula and make records for money not for the music. As well as touring is where most their money is coming from. So theirs no real reason to make a record besides for a few new songs for their live shows. Hoping one of two of their new songs off a new album will hit and make it on their set list. Even if it doesn’t they could always tour their new album even playing most of their older stuff. I blame the black album as well as Lars. What they need to do is rent a house they can all live in and record without phoning in their parts. They need to record as a band without the option of going home after the studio that night. They also need to bring in fresh ideas from other peoples input to guide them away from the direction they would normally take.
@@Koake1002 Some great points you bring up Koake, wouldn’t say though that with And Justice they saw what an album could do? They had a pretty tour with that album, I think even if they stayed on the thrash pathway they still would have gotten really big
Cliff and Flemming is Metallica after is a cover band
No Justice for all .. no 1990's Pantera
I think James, Lars, Jason and Mustaine should get together at Sweet Silence Studios with Flemming Rasmussen AND Bob Rock and write some badass music. James and Lars have become much to comfortable sitting in HQ and calling all the shots whenever they're recording.
If they also track the drums, rhythm guitars and bass all at the same time (with the usual overdubs on top) and James would let Mustaine and Newstead do the backing vocals, it would turn out pretty brutal. It'd be healthy for all of them to do something different and it would be a treat to all of metal to see it happen. Shame it most probably won't ever become a reality
Dude they have barely talked in 40 years. This is pie in the sky unrealistic talk lol
@@khall187 it's very far fetched, I'll give you that, but it's also the wet dream of most hardcore Metallica fans.
The fact that Lars and James have gotten way to comfortable with the way they're doing things at HQ is as clear as water, having them collaborate and write in the same way as they did back in the 80's would be a breath of fresh air, especially if they'd be working with people who know what they're capable of when they're bringing their A-game.
Furthermore, James Hetfield and Dave Mustaine are among the best guitarists and songwriters in the metal genre, them not doing anything together before they retire would be a damn shame
Just in case anyone was wondering..... Cliff didn't like headphones
The bass on Justice is the beast. Hovering over everything. Genius production and Rasmus knows it
Wth ya talking bout? There is No Bass on justice, unless u got a different version than everybody else lol
must be joking or deaf. what is it?
Neither. It is a fact that there is no bass to be heard on Justice except for very few sequences. So whatever you imagine you hear, at least if you claim that bass can be heard throughout the entire album - it's not! And another fact is, as all the mixes with louder bass show, that the album doesn't sound any better with bass! Jason has, as he himself admits, only doubled James' guitar. Which sounds absolutely weird and annoying, which is easy to realize when you listen to said mixes. And that might be the real reason why he was removed. As well as a certain disappointment compared to Cliff's bass. It has to be said that Lars and James were actually very fair to Jason. Because they didn't care about the bass on Justice and just let Jason do it, just like they let Cliff do it. The result was that they didn't like the bass because it was a complete duplication of James' guitar. Completely different from Cliff's. It doesn't take a genius to imagine that Lars and James feared a very negative reaction to such a bass given Cliff's standing with the fans. If you don't believe it - just listen to the mixes with louder bass. Does anyone really want to claim that they sound better? Unfortunately, I can't take anyone who says that seriously seriously...
This drives me nuts; Justice was the first album i ever air bassed to. How can people not hear it!?
Because there's no bass there! Whatever you hear - it's pure imagination! Or do you really believe that 99% of people, including the producer and the artists themselves, are deaf when they talk about the "lack of bass" and why it was mixed out? You can hear the bass in a couple of sequences, where you hear more the strikes of the pick itself than the bass, but that's it! 95% of the album has no bass! But good for you if you have the imagination to hear instruments that aren't there!
Jason had no balls.
On vocals he did. But his bass playing is nothing special at all.
Flemming's explanation of why AJFA has no bass is the dumbest thing I've heard. Jason did exactly what he should have, because he realised that you don't come into an established band who are seen as the biggest band in their sub-genre (thrash metal) and tell them what to do with their new album, especially if you are replacing a beloved member of the group who just died tragically. I think Flemming is the one with no balls. He was their producer and he'd worked with them twice before so he knew that they trusted him. He was the one who should have told them not to do it because THAT WAS HIS JOB as the producer! Flemming giving that reason in this video just sounds like he's trying to free himself of blame for not standing up to Lars and James. Nil respect to him.
Fleming wasn’t the mixing engineer for Justice so he couldn’t have done much
@@themadmattster9647 That's true, he wasn't the mixing engineer, but even the mixing engineer couldn't have stopped Lars and James from doing what they did with their album's mix. They are the songwriters and leaders of the band so they had the final say. Flemming was the producer though, so he definitely was being paid to give the band good advice. He also had an obligation to the record label to deliver a finished product that is of a good quality. Because of both of those things, he should have said something.
Justice sounds absolutely amazing as it is, regardless of whether you can hear the bass or not. Metallicas best album by a stretch.
@stevenarmnot even close budstrong5116
I remember when JFA was released and everyone loved the way it sounded. The “ no bass” controversy was never a thing till decades later.
Justice is a masterpiece with or without bass!