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The biological clock DOESN'T EXIST: understanding women's felt sense of urgency
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- Опубліковано 24 сер 2023
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The biological clock, generally understood as a felt sense of urgency arising from a woman's physiology as she nears the end of her reproductive window, can't exist as such. If this urge were biological, we would expect it to occur when a woman is most likely to conceive and carry a viable pregnancy (i.e., when she is young and fertile). The historical record would also likely look very different. In this episode, I make the case that the urgency in question is more of a psychological clock than a biological one.
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Presented by Orion Taraban, Psy.D. PsycHacks provides viewers with a brief, thought-provoking video several days a week on a variety of psychological topics, inspired by his clinical practice. The intention is for the core idea contained within each video to inspire viewers to see something about themselves or their world in a slightly different light. The ultimate mission of the channel is to reduce the amount of unnecessary suffering in the world.
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Yes, I think the whole FOMO thing explains why modern Western societies are seeing so much upheaval and re-evaluation. People believe they can have it all. They can't. Nobody can. Everyone has to choose their priorities, and doing so closes off some options.
As a man I can invest decades towards my business and eventually have children of my own when I'm older and more experienced on life
@@ernestkhalimov748 You really think you're not closing off options that way? That just because you're a male that aging doesn't affect your value? That's false my friend. Age may not be as detrimental to men as it is women, but it eventually becomes a negative. Good luck being a 50 year old guy bagging 25 year old UNLESS you have ample money to justify it. But the fact that you need money or to invest in your business for decades only proves you can't have it all, you need to give up those decades.
Secondly when you have kids later you've now given up the youthful years you could spend with your kids, waiting long for a man absolutely comes at a price for men too. Everyone has a biological clock because we are not immortal.
@@user-ze3sg6ix1u my father was 48 when I was born and my mom was 21,
I turned out great🤘, and plus I got alot of inheritance, so I could find a wife right now If I wanted to..
@@ernestkhalimov748 Women too. Is called adoption. But people like to pretend the desire for a family is the same as the desire for living traditional lifescript.
@@user-ze3sg6ix1u Absolutelly based.
Fellas, for the most part women are going to categorize you in their lives as either a Provider or a Lover. Oftentimes women are unable to lock down the men they truly desire in a long monogamous relationship due to these men having a great variety of options at their disposal. When women decide to settle down, they usually make compromises of settling down with a man they don’t necessarily desire, but can depend and rely on to provide for them for the long term. Make sure you don’t end up being a Provider, because wives now have the legal options to punish their husbands for not meeting up to their expectations. Most low grade dysfunction in relationships are caused due to you not being their first choice. Be wise in how you move, and be honest with yourself about where you fall in the male hierarchy.💯
This should be pinned.
Even her first choice can be penalised, ask Tom Brady.
ALPHA: One she wants. Don’t have to give her crap. Don’t even have to do anything for her attention. Treating her like crap makes her want you more. Gets secks anytime he wants.
BETA BUCKS: takes care of chads kid. Resent you. Become an ATM and workhorse. Has to be providing for the pleasure of keeping her. Will make fun of you with her friends. Doesn’t care about you. Has to beg for secks. If you accumulate enough resources she will divorce you and go for half
@@mbg9650The Tom Brady example is one shouldn’t make comparison to.
Nothing is worse than “high status” woman. I hate Tom Brady, but zero question he’s an alpha.
But when the woman has too much success & clout, heck if the likes of Brad Pitt & Brady can’t lock it down, forget about it.
You must be above your woman. It’s only way you both can be happy.
Even if you are a Chad or Tyrone, you will always be put in the placeholder boyfriend or placeholder husband category. Once she has extracted your value (e.g. cute babies, marriage without a pre-nup, good D, etc) and once she is bored, she will move on. She is not your girl, it is just your turn, gentlemen.
This guy is going to pass 1 million subscribers within a years time. He has a unique ability that very few people have to explain very complicated subjects in a way where children can understand it. That’s a very rare ability!
I'm hooked already
I agree
True, only going to go up
He might get cancelled by disclosing soo many unconfortable truth.
@@mbg9650 no he won’t
So "alpha fux, beta bux" is scientifically confirmed.
Female dual mating strategy.
You win the comments today! 😆
I refuse to be beta bux.
@@IFYOUWANTITGOGETITapparently that's 90% of the market
Dual mating strategy *
The last minute of the video delivers a very important message: it is never to late to enjoy all the other things in live. We had children when we were still students. No parties, no hanging out with friends, but a lot of time and energy for the child. My wife became a teacher, after her state exams she worked part-time with 4 hours per day. The kindergarten was right next to the school. As our son became more independent, she increased her hours. Then came the career stages of head of the math seminar (the Teacher for Teacher in Math), coordinator of all math seminar heads, general seminar head and soon she started as a subject specialist in the government. She is now turning 40 and has been able to have a career and still have the experience of being a young mother in an intact family raising a son. Could she have had the career earlier, younger? No, some positions are only reached at a certain age.
What do you mean by "some positions are only reached at a certain age?"
@@FreeloadingBird2584 Do you know ageism? That usually refers to older people. But the same thing exists with younger people, who are considered too young to take certain jobs. For example, the position of general seminar head is one of the highest non-governmental positions in the civil service in Germany. She got the position at 38 and was the youngest at that time. It would be unthinkable to get this position even earlier, even if she had started the same career path 6 years earlier without a child.
@@FreeloadingBird2584Old people will not follow young department heads. Pretty basic
@@ytano5782It’s completely fair that experienced people not follow inexperienced people.
Totally reasonable.
It's not a clock, it's a wall
True it is social requirements not phychological. Men dictate all this crap.
@@14margottIt's nature. Eggs don't last forever.
I get your point but biological clock is the most accurate. The window of time to become a mother is tied to their biological ability rather than psychological. There is no clock on wanting to be a mother. People will be 70 and still long for it. But biological is preventing it. The clock is certainly biological. The feelings and pressures around the ticking are psychological.
Society creates phychological pressures. It is a social phenomenon not phychological, a socially required role for women, put it simply what men, their own mum, their own dad want and expect from them, Children and grandchildren. Society for each one of us is the boatful of people we live with, interact, know and we have ever known.
@@14margottyou said a whole lotta nothing
@@14margott I hear you but disagree. Like Dr. O, you are assigning the phenomenon to the influence and not the object. Society is the influence that shapes the type of pressure. But if a person were to somehow be dropped off on an island at birth and survive, they would eventually still have psychological pressure, fear, discover pleasure. The psychological phenomenon are not born of society but shaped by them.
@@RShaunfacts. Psychological may help reinforce it, but the biological is definitely the catalyst and true reason for the clock feeling.
@@14margottMy God I don't understand why so many people are having such a hard time with this. The biological clock has absolutely NOTHING to do with psychology, sociology or roles and expectations. It's simply a concept that references a woman's PHYSICAL ABILITY to have healthy kids. That's it. Anyone that says a womans bio clock isn't real is clueless. A woman has already lost 90% of her eggs by age 30, and nothing changes that. That's the biological clock. It's not called a psychological clock, or a "when I desire kids" clock or a social role clock.
I'm a 49 year old financially successful man with a great career. Been to many places done a lot of fun things. I think I am going through a physiological clock as you just described.
Except I don't have a problem attracting girls that can still give birth. The problem is is this girl worthy to be attached to via a child. The longer I wait the older the pool of females gets so it does feel like a clock.
That anxiety is a clock......
Yes. His point it's less biological and more psychological. But the clock still remains useful
I'm 54 and still don't have a very hard time getting girls in their 20s.
I don't think the pool is getting older. The factory is literally putting out brand new models every single day.
No man in history has given birth to a child, so your urge is irrational.
The technology exists now (IVF, surrogacy) for a man to have a child without hitching up with a woman.
As a man I think I am guilty of a fear of missing out as well. It may be a bit different then a woman’s but I think it still exists for me.
Men are in love while women are in business. Men value love while women love value. Most guys think exactly like you. Its not until divorce court when your losing your money, house and kid do you realize you have ruined your life.
@@marriagecausesdivorce7540yep. Divorced here. FOMO is completely nonexistent for me now lol that came at a hefty price!
Yes... take that Blue Pill
😄😂🤣
@@marriagecausesdivorce7540 I too have recently been blindsided with this. Love of my life, together for 10 years, lived together for 8 years, married for 5.5 years. And seemingly out of the blue, my life partner was replaced with an absolutely callous demon with a scorched earth policy. My life very much feels ruined; it likely is ruined but even if it's not, it feels that way. Is there ANY hope or security in true love with a woman?
@@goldmidwest the problem with most men is that they are completely unrealistic. a 50 year lifelong marriage for millennials / Gen Z is a completely delusional expectation. it is more realistic / healthy to have 5 x 10 year relationships with 5 different woman, than 1 long hellish 50 year marriage, where she can shout and scream at you, because you gave her the ultimate stability and security. you just have to accept that people get bored, people change, and new people come into our lives.
Doc's version of explaning female nature, makes it that much easier to digest, but also allows you to be logical so you dont fall into the natural masculine "hero role" for the wrong people.
Everyone's guilty until proven... majority of the world of men and womem have failed that
I would add that, as they get older, the attention diminishes, and the plan to get the family whenever she wants gets harder. And the plan to execute it as fast as possible is the ideal, for no longer fertility is going, but the best relantionships
Doesn't stop them from Fu*king ...
Just like Jordan Peterson became a father to the fatherless generation I see Orion Taraban becoming a brother to the brother-less generation or a true friend to the friendless generation. Thanks buddy/bro!
He is truly an older brother to us ❤❤❤
I think the childless women over 30 get the urgency to have kids because they are naturally followers by design. They see other women with kids, some younger than them, and develop STRONG FOMO (fear of missing out). They know that if they do not have kids soon, they never will be able to again in their life, and will be reminded of such every time they see a woman with a family. Almost like learning that the iPhone will be discontinued in a month and unavailable for purchase, but will still be the most popular phone, who would want to miss out on that?
Most men who haven't been successful in finding a long term partner after age 40 are in the same boat, you'll have less options, single moms who separated. Lots of people are already in relationships at that age.
@@cevanille1104 Lol why am I not surprised a woman would turn this comment back on the men?
@@cevanille1104 Well, he's going to date younger women...not women in his age bracket
@@cevanille1104 Your statement makes the false assumption a man is going to "date his age." The right age woman for a man is half his age plus 7 years. Long established rule of thumb.
Yeah I think it's social
Yeah, you're right. Why DO they get the "baby rabies" near menopause, but not before?
10/10 comment. Baby rabies is such a more accurate phrase than psychological clock 😂 when reality catches up to self delusional behaviour and denying becomes hard, Life gives you yet another opportunity to take accountability and settle your peace to live by your own accord.
they did, but high hormone was the norm, now that is low, the hormone injection when ovulation is more felt. Same thing happens to man, if living with low testo for a good amount time, and then receive a good dose, by injection or working out, the libido skyrockets as the body dont have much tolerance anymore.
Last call. Think of it like when you are in a bar and they say last call everybody goes to the bar to get drinks. Same thing, it's part of how our brains work.
They just horny.. they don’t want kids at menopause. They finally get a taste of high testosterone lol
I'm on a religious dating app and am amazed how many never married, childless, 35 year old women say their ideal number of kids is 5+
God will give them a miracle because they have been such good girls. If they ever get treatment for their vaginismus. Usually they are not only single over 35 but also indoctrinated about desire sending them to Hell and make miserable miserly frugal lovers because of their upbringing. You cannot easily teach an old dog new tricks.
They give Jesus the wheel after they already went off the cliff, crashed, and are trapped in an upside down car leaking gas with a forest fire closing in.
at least those you refer to had a life. I did not mean them I mean those from fundamentalist families who got trapped in a church environment and passed their youth in quiet despair and prayer waiting for the prince to be delivered by Jesus to them.@@music-jj2pl
In my experience those women "found Jesus" after two decades of partying and getting wrecked by Chad every weekend. Now they want a "good guy" to wife them up.
That's a puzzle!
Biological clock does exist but women wait for the last call to deal with it.
Which means it exists
He's trying to be precise. The biological clock would be the running out of eggs, but he emphasizes that it's the psychological awareness of this, not some biological urge, that forces action. It's a good point, but I find a bit semantic
Life happens. Things happen. What a silly comment
@@uhnborhn5032naw watch what he says again, its literally both in the same breath
Because childbearing and childrearing is an awful burden with few if any advantages. So, it seems precious few mold their lives around it, unless it creates an identity for them and generates access to other's income. If they decide they have to do it they delay it hoping secretly it will not work. It is pretty simple really. Very few women genuinelly want kids nomatter what.
I live in the middle east and it is fairly common here for a women to have a kids in her younger years then a second lot of kids in her late thirties - early forties. As a women it fits, because those are the times in my life that I have felt the strongest urges to be intimate.
How many per litter?
Correct, It is the same in Latin America and the Caribbean, someone who is disconected from nature cant talk about this
Sounds about right.
Kids, 10-15 years of little sex,
kids grow up, taps back on, lol.
it was also a pretty common thing here in Scandinavia a few generations back. ;)
@BWater-yq3jx interesting. I had 2 aunt 2 kids back to back at age 19nor 20..... then the other had one decade later and another. The reason is one aunt wanted more kids but her husband wanted zero and changed his mind decade later to wants another. My other aunt had 2 girls and almost 16yrs later 2 more girls but no boys and it was dream to have boy at least one. Then she got old and tired. So this guy psychology dude needs more info and life experience
More like a biological count down to infertility, thats how i always understood it. Put off having kids too long and you may regret it. The emotional part i feel is more fear of missing out or regret and not a biological drive directly.
He used the title of this video like clickbait. The fact is, clock implies time and nature has a time limit on their eggs / ability to conceive in a healthy way.
@@ryanunslavd1656 yeah, I realized that when I got towards the end of the video. I got effectively click baited into watching. He did a good job at it.
If you are 40+ male, even if you find a 20+ girl to want you, even if she is a really good girl... you can't follow the lifestyle she wants to live... And this, because... she's 20+ years old !!! At this age, a girl - any girl - want some fun, some excitement in her life. I'm not talking about flirting, but OFTEN outing, socializing, traveling, etc. A 40+ man wants a more laid back /relax life.
The career advice has two huge problems:
1. it's easier to accept that one makes mistakes when he/she is young, but less so when he/she is older. When you get older it is hard to find a job when you have no experience. Also, the knoeledge you gained during your education fades and get's outdated with time.
2. Children are not just there, one has to take care of them. This requires both energy and time. If you don't have a decent position before you get the child, the chances that you are going anywhere are low.
The career advice betrays that the one who is giving it has never been out there struggling to get a job and keep it, paying off her tuition fees, building something horribly slowly with unequal pay and more prospects to be layed off than a man. And also someone who has no consideration of the enormous work and toll children take on the mother and her total brain fog from permanent sleep deprivation making her hard to function at work as well. All this is taken for granted. Housework, shopping, ironing, taking to doctor, school, supporting them emotionally all is done by the toothfairy.
IMO it's up to families to support daughters who want children. Unfortunately in the US, Boomers and the US govt pretty much destroyed them.
It's a tough one because it seems that to have a family women inevitably need to take a big chunk of time out from other things in their life to raise children. If they won't have children, this doesn't apply, of course.
A relation of mine had kids young, trained to be a teacher when the kids went to school and built up her career after that. Seems to have worked out well for her, she's in her 40s, her kids are nearly all out of the home, and she is free to do what she wants with her husband.
To me, having kids first and then starting your career path and being able to focus on career in your 40s sounds like a much more sensible idea for a woman who wants BOTH a successful career and a family, because they get a fairly uninterrupted path to build momentum in a career.
The only thing is they miss out on their 'youth' and other options.
Sounds a lot better than interrupting your career path for a decade or so to start a family in your late 30s, and be in your 50s by the time you can actually focus on your career. If you just want jobs, then it's not so bad.
@@watamutha To have a family, a woman needs a husband to support her, not parents who support her.
I've heard more people regret becoming parents versus the other way around. People tell me all the time, " I love my children, but I wouldn't choose to do this again". They didn't know or understand the sacrifice that comes with being a parent. I think it's better to approach the situation soberly without making an emotional decision, or caving in to the "fear of missing out".
I think everyone already knew that, but thanks for being the first one in youtube to properly put it into words.
Thank you in the name of all children! I agree with your suggestion.
After 6 years at uni and 2 years at work, I started. My babies were born at my age of 27,29,and 31.
The body regenerates much easier in the twenties. I also suggest it to everyone.
Of course early thirties are still ok.
The best thing ever happened to me, was becoming a mother. It is a true miracle.
And I went back to work, and now I am a small leader in my job, I didn't miss anything.
You can have it all, but timing is important. Don't leave the best at last.
Never accept being a womans back up plan when she gets old. Find yourselves a young 21 year old that wants you, makes you a priority
But be aware that 21 yo may never want you. Stay single then.
Except most men in their 30s can't date early 20s girls. You need status and looks to pull that off, and most men don't have it. Stop deluding yourself and either work really hard to achieve something in life, stay healthy to look youthful, or have kids early and settle for having less money. You can't have it all.
@@toddjohnson271indeed, you can't fuck around throughout your 20s and then suddenly go like "I want to date 18 year old girls!". To do that you need to do this in your 20s: workout, stay healthy while working on your career to achieve high status, study a lot. Then you'll perhaps be good looking and high status enough to pull off successfully dating much younger girls in your 30s. But again, only a handful of men can achieve this realistically.
@@toddjohnson271I'm in shape, confident, and slightly below average in the looks department. I get younger girls flirting with me all the time. If I were single it'd just be a question of asking one of them out.
@@jwg9338 mileage varies.
Potato/potato. Yes we know it’s pyschological. The “biological clock” could also be called the biological window or timeline. Their biological ability to have children is the biological clock which affects them psychologically. I think we all know this. And maybe this psychological motivation could be as powerful as a biological motivation when they were driven to have risky relations (just in a slightly different way)
Agreed, Rustin. In this video, Dr. T always prefaces his biological clock assertion with the qualifier "as it's commonly understood." Um ... my common understanding of the term is the same colloquial understanding which you state above -- not his evolutionary biology take on it.
😂 I did exactly as you prescribed. I married at 20 and had three children before I turned 30. I always knew I wanted to be a mother; I wasn’t so sure about a career path, so I figured I might as well have my babies while I was at my peak fertility. I figured I could always finish my degree and start a career in my 30’s once I had a clearer idea what I wanted to do.
But guess what? Neither society nor family demands line up very well with that trajectory. Children are a huge investment of time and energy as well as money. Completing my education and establishing a career in my 30’s proved to be a difficult proposition. I made several stops and starts in that direction but I was primarily a SAHM until my youngest started middle school. It was then that I got a steady part-time job and enrolled back in college, also part-time. I eventually completed my bachelor’s degree but when you’re older and have huge gaps in your resume, establishing a career is not so easy. I’ve always been able to find work but I can’t say that I’ve really had a career.
And you’re wrong about the biological clock. Just look at all the teen mothers. There is a huge societal stigma working on young women to suppress their fertility, not to mention actual biological suppression of fertility through hormonal birth control methods. Speaking from personal experience, when I stopped taking the birth control pill, Baby Fever hit with a vengeance. I was desperate to get pregnant. My first child was born shortly after my 21st birthday. I went on to have two more children. I had a second blast of Baby Fever at age 34 but when I started talking about the possibility of having #4, my husband decided to get a vasectomy. 😂
So, yeah, FOMO could definitely play a role as childless women get older but Baby Fever, that primal urge to reproduce, can hit a woman at any point in her fertile years when she goes off birth control with the intention of conceiving. When a woman desires to conceive, it easily becomes her central mission in life. Just ask the man involved. 😂
I'm glad someone else caught this. He says the bio clock isn't real because if it was we'd see women having kids at 35 & 40? Wtf? The clock has absolutely nothing to do with a womans drive or desire to have children. When women want to have kids is completely irrelevant. It's all about her physical ABILITY to have them, and in a healthy manner. Back in the day medicine also wasn't as evolved so having kids at that age was a death sentence. On the other end, today we also see lots of women freezing their eggs, which again shows that they understand that they're on the clock.
@@amiek9226No no no you also misunderstood the concept of the biological clock. It has nothing to do with social stigma or whether or not a woman desires kids. That's irrelevant. It's about your biological ABILITY to have them. Teenagers getting pregnant after stopping birth control doesn't mean that there's no biological clock. 😂 Where are you guys even getting this logic?
@@ITech2005 more women have children in their mid to late 30’s and early 40’s than you may realize. Between the ages of 30 and 39, my MIL had four children. My sister had her first child at 35 and her second at age 38. A good friend had her 3rd child at 37 and her 4th at age 40. Clearly not a death sentence.
For a woman it's not smart to get pregnant young if she is not able to support herself and the child... In case the man just disappears, like they do at young age. Because men are "allowed" to enjoy liberties in this world, but a mother is "not allowed".
The majority of my female friends who had children when they were in their 20's are single mothers and in most cases without any child support from their expartners ... And that is just so unfair, mostly for their offsprings. So sad.
I think a woman in her 20s who's a single mom is much more likely to marry than a single mom in her 30s and 40s honestly.
@@bryantharris5914 none of the ones I know have remarried...
I've heard more people regret becoming parents versus the other way around. People tell me all the time, " I love my children, but I wouldn't choose to do this again". They didn't know or understand the sacrifice that comes with being a parent. I think it's better to approach the situation soberly without making an emotional decision, or caving in to the "fear of missing out".
I know some of these single mothers as well in their later 20's and to me its pretty clear why the dude left lmao.
My understanding of the biological clock is that it is manifested as a psychological urge to have children before a woman loses her chance to become a mother.
If the woman is already a mother there is no need for this urge.
Edit: You said this in the second half of the video.
What you did not explicitly mention is that men looking for a wife don’t want a woman who’s been around the block.
I had FOMO once, then I heard a child screaming and throwing a tantrum. My brain snapped back to reality and said "You sure you want that?"
Don't back down women, if you are confident in your childfree choice, never let anyone change your mind. Stand strong
Darwin at work
I rarely ever disagree with anything you have to say, but on this I don't quite agree, and that's okay.
I think the issue may be what you defined the biological clock as against what it is more popularly believed to be.
Biological clock refers to the overall fertility window of a woman based on her release of eggs on a scale of a lifetime.
What I think you maybe limiting it to, is an arousal cycle.
Women can have arousal beyond menopause, though not in the same way, however post menopausal women are not likely to conceive or carry babies to term.
"When is her womb most likely to easily give us healthy babies naturally" is what the biological clock is about, not "When is she most likely to desire and seek out sexual intercourse."
You said it brother. Fully agree.
Excellently put. "When is her womb most likely to easily give us healthy babies naturally" is what the biological clock is about, not "When is she most likely to desire and seek out sexual intercourse."And because men need Wombs giving them healthy babies- male preferably- and not Women who Desire and Seek out sexual intercourse like anybody else in our species there is all this misunderstanding and conflict. They cannot be persuaded to be simply Wombs, you see.
It makes sense women that forgo reproduction at younger ages have this psychological pressure to reproduce later in life. I've been online dating one-and-off for 3 years, I have been always dumbfounded why women that are 45+ years old and want to have a child. The more you know.
Mothers of future Autistic sons.
because at that time people get wiser, understand their mistakes and needs more.
@@valdius85Let's not get ahead lf ourselves there
I am 52 years old and want to be as rich as Elon Musk. Same level of delusion
Nope not it. It might be true for some women but not for most. My step mom was 40 when she married my dad she already had children, she was so desperate to have children. but I never seen a women desperate to have, than women with children who got a new man - female psychology have a child with man = he is stuck to you. There might be childless women who want children desperately but Women who desperately want children more than anything are women thinking they can secure a man and a relationship especially if the man is powerful of well off. That's how women work, everyday that's what I see, from the young and the old.
Not saying women are good diggers but wanting to have children has little to do with biology most of the time, people's mindset and believes pay a bigger role in their actions, if not Malesand females of all races would behave the same
Women as they enter their 30s, they sense the impact of opportunity costs. That they an "option" is disappearing. This happens in many aspects of life. It is more "mid life" as we transition from the "all options open" youth to the reality that "choices have consequences" in that each choice foregoes other opportunities and the trade offs become more poignant.
I think the reason why it happens later is that we're living longer and have so many distractions, so she effectively is learning a lesson that if it is what she wants then it should be a message shared with the younger women. Geriatric pregnancies are not something to take lightly
Yes he didn’t take that in his thoughts process on this topic. A whole civilization with people living more than 40 years old is a really recent thing. That metric alone change the dynamics and the way people reproduce. Before when you were 20y it was the equivalent of been 40y. So it makes sense that people started having children at 20.
@@CR91280 people really will want to have children in pods, artificial wombs. I could only see a certain class having that ability while the bottom of a pyramid still has life longevity but can only live life as we know it now. and really this would mean 20 to 30 years of human life is hardcore debauchery because lets be real, that is what they want, its definitely a feminists dream to mirror the male they hate and how can the guy disagree when they're making reality all pleasure. it is very much going to be Brave New World, where instead of soma its molly.
That's an interesting strategy you propose at the end of the video; to prioritise having children in one's 20's because earning money has less of a fixed expiration date like fertility. In my experience of being a 45-year-old woman with no children, I agree with everything you have said and a strong driver to have them being psychological and FOMO, yet here is my take on the strategy of having them young. My view has always been, that if you have children in your 20's, in some cases, (and it depends on your reason for having children) this could end up being with say a partner who does not satisfy needs in a relationship down the line. The effect on the children of broken or mismatched/negative relationships. The bigger thing for me was actually about NOT re-creating generational patterns and not having children until such time that healing OR familial expectations and destructive paradigms have been de-constructed in one's own mind. So that caregiving can come from the most authentic, positive, supportive and loving way. Otherwise what kind of children and societies are we creating if we are unconscious in our upbringing of them?
Yes, it is assuming the best case scenario and putting a huge pressure to find a good partner, or you are just as fucked as if you waited.
Finally, a down to earth comment. Too many people have idealistic, fairy-tale scenarios, with happy families having children at age 19/20. Generational patters and trauma are real but people fail to acknowledge them usually.
I always assumed that “biological clock” meant childless women who become anxious about not having had children when they approach the terminus of their fertility. If women focused on becoming pleasant, attractive mates when on their 20s so they could have children and then focus on career in their 30s and 40s, I think it would send a message to younger men to get their sh*t together. There is no reward as a young man for age cohort women who aggressively act like they neither value nor desire you. If men get their sh*t together and settle down for a stable family life, there are huge benefits for society. Because the men will have a head start in their careers (assuming the women are birthing and raising young children), hypergamy will match reality. The men will on average be earning more vis-a-vis women who chose early motherhood. Anecdotally, a former work colleague who was from Korea told me relationships were hard for young men because the men have compulsory military service and the women do not. As a result, women in the same age cohort have a year or two more career development over their male peers. As a result the women find their age cohort male peers less desirable. The sad truth is the promise of getting laid is a motivator for men to develop themselves. If the chance of get laid or having a cooperative girlfriend is slim, what’s the point?
You are 100% spot on
@@neolink8197He is 100% spot on only on paper. Getting your shit together and settle down for a family life in your 20s with what? Crappy wages, no homes and severe job instability? We need to adjust to real-life conditions, not guide ourselves by idealistic scenarios.
Interesting but seeing a flaw in the argument no.2. If woman had a kid in her early 20s it’s natural her instincts wouldnt be acting up later on in their 30s because their biological instinct has already been fullfilled. Why would she feel pressure, she already procreated.
Similar for men, dudes who have no kids don’t want to take care of other ppls kids but once they have their own, instinct is fulfilled and they mind adopting or step-fathering less.
A lot of men over analyse this stuff, and risk missing out on a lot through fear.
“we suffer more often in imagination than in reality.”
Seneca.
“Marry, and you will regret it; don’t marry, you will also regret it; marry or don’t marry, you will regret it either way.”
Kierkegaard
My point being You WILL get wet one way or another in life so may as well stop trynna dodge rain drops and get on with it.
You’ll handle the inevitable ups and downs as they come and live a richer life for it.
Never been this early. I've been a subscriber since 10K and you're a goldmine of information.
This time unfortunately rather on *misinformation* rather than the former. _Since he's talking dangerous rubbish as the biological clock indeed exists!_
There's a reason why we have to many preemies, so many allergic children, so many being born with psychological and bodily defects.
It's _only_ because women since decades now delivering babies which are born out off bodies which have mostly become genetic waste (in terms of a healthy pregnancy and resulting child; add years-long drug- and alcohol-abuse into the toxic cocktail here) when women postpone their pregnancies way past their fertile years and into their thirties - A window which is known for highly risky and geriatric pregnancies _for a reason_ …
I always understood it to be just a psychological thing, not an actual biological instinct.
Yeah totally and this video is definitively Out of the subject.
100%
Agreed. The biological component is there (ageing, less fertility and hence attractiveness), but it is the psychological consequence that will trigger a change in sexual strategy. When something was once for free and with plenty of optionality begins to suddenly disappear, that's when you want to settle in a deal. I see the pain that many single women in that age experience, but I don't sympathize. That same pain was felt by half of all men between ages 15 and 30, and the women couldn't care less about that struggle and helplessness. I felt awful and no woman ever asked how I felt or if I needed anything.
@@cedo3333
Out of the subject?
Dr Orion is spot in his videos. I do believe the biological clock is a psychological thing that women say to explain why they hit 30 and want a baby. Its really just fomo. Modern makeup, plastic surgery, Instagram filters, and social media really prolongs the false idea of time on their side.
Absolutely. And the choices men have from 30-45 and beyond is incredible. The beyond means your choices are limited, but still great, numerically. Any man that survives youth will see it. It is good to be a man.
i would ask you one thing - when I did this, and I had to focus on raising the kid in twenties, I lost my career track- a break doesn't usually go that well for career - even if it is a temporary break to focus on kids...i would not agree that there is not really a point where women can stop making money or traveling - sometimes raising kid comes at the cost of one's career progress, pregnant women get replaced fast at workplace in today's world ! I have seen cases where by the time a woman goes to her 40s she cannot travel either because a. it is insanely expensive unaffordable b. she can't stay at the same hostel places she could have as single woman, walk 30K steps and survive a road side food (which is possible in her FIT 20s) - she is often tired and worn out by 40 if she has been raising children in her 20s. There are exceptions of course - if women had good support systems in place for raising children and enough money to hire support - they could possibly continue to maintain their fitness well into late 40s.
I Agree, women should prioritize children and marriage on their 20's and work on their 30's.
A number of women in my family have all had healthy children well into their 30’s and yes even their 40’s with no issues. This includes my own mother, grandmother and great grandmother who had my grandma at 30. The fear-mongering that gets pumped out towards women who haven’t had children by the age of 30 always blows my mind lol
I guess it all depends on Heath I know a lady that had her first child at 17 and her last at 40 all three of her kids are healthy it just depends I got pregnant With my last kid at 29 so I was on the edge.
I see the opposite, with even a recent family member who waited til she "had her fun" with all kinds of guys and tried to slide into home plate with a beta provider guy at 34. She rushed to have one baby in record time after securing the dumb but financially well off guy ( baby is under weight now and possibly has some cognitive issues) and then tried to have another that had to be removed early, but didn't make it in the incubator and passed away. Recently I saw her and she had a face FULL of regret, but told me they were going to try AGAIN. It's insane and a sign of our times regarding western women trying to have their cake and eat it too.
@@eQuariuz that is a big time shame but sounds like bad luck there are so many factors in giving birth shots, environmental,diet, prenatal treatment aka the vitamins they give the woman, you really don't know.
@@tiffanygrever8092 It's definitely a pattern of shame.
I sense that all these women were not partying around but just married later for various reasons. Fertility also correlates with reproductive health as in not having many partners.
This one is a miss.
When people say biological clock they mostly refer to the drop of fertility when girls get older. And this is absolutely the case.
Yea I interpret that as well. Women produce less eggs and the risk of complications increase, I've never really heard it referred to as a psychological sensation
I'd love to see a M.D. explain the details of high-risk pregnancy to Orion. It's a REAL THING for women past the age of 35 while men can father children into their 80's with no issues.
Yeah, this is Orion's first flop.
wrong. bc most women don't know or acknowledge that 90% of their eggs are gone by 30 yo or that geriatric pregnancy begins at 35 yo.
they just ignore those facts, put their heads in the sand, and get ready to blame men for the choices they made in life.
Wrong, the contribution of aged sperm in e.g. rise of autism has been well researched and proven.
The thing is that women nowadays would rather not have children at all than put themselves at a mercy of a man. They know what that mercy often looks like. They choose to regret not having children at all than to have them with unreliable partner. And being reliable doesn't mean protecting and providing, but not trying to make her a domestic servant.
When serving the system is acceptable?
in a world where every woman has her instagram active as a simp magnet all the while monkey branching and committing paternity fraud, I guess it's a matter of persepctive, isn't it?
@@allenlin7333 Or maybe your perspective is distorted by the content you consume. It's more about you than anybody else.
@@sigma4455 I guess when one doesn't benefit at the expense of another.
@@katkat6789 I am glad you were able to discern my message if you just read your own comment to yourself.
Spot on as usual. My girlfriend through 2years who was 33 and me 45, jumped on a 21year old hot dude during her ovulating period. I had had a hard time securing a commitment,having a son in distress with another woman. She then ran off and has been trying to secure family with new guys she just met.
Now she's partying like she's 21, and is getting sick of sleeping around, and is starting to look back to the kind qualities I posses.
Seeing how women operate has made me hopeless for the future.
Please do not take her back.
1:32 Well whatever we call it.. the result is the same: panic, regret & bitterness for those that fail to secure the man and family.
As a woman, it’s hard because I can’t just force a man to marry me and have a baby with me. You need money for that. So, how do I have a family young (that’s what I want) when my partner and I aren’t making enough? It’s a genuine question. I definitely fear not having kids as a 26 year old woman seeing that I likely won’t have the resources until I’m in my 30’s
i would say give up dreams of the "big house" and live in an apartment or less desirable neighborhood. Deal with the struggles as a couple for your children. That’s what my wife and i did - in expensive LA. But we made it work. And now 3 kids later I don’t regret a thing. But we both had to give up our pipe dreams fast living, fancy cars and the like for a certain level of mediocrity (reality), to make it work. You cannot have it all, something has to give.
We all appreciate your honesty, and for a response. Look to any religious book, look at envy. Womens consumerism stems from envy of the group. Do you really need that big of a house? Do you really need that many cars? Plenty of poor women have kids without worry of the financial cost and just use state assistance. I am not promoting welfare abuse but I am pointing out how money did not influence their decision to have a child. Have the children first, then "live according to your means," meaning build your budget around it. Sometimes you have to say no. Sincerely, a 27 year old GWOT vet who has been homeless, worked public and private sector jobs, on a second masters degree after third with thesis, and even been divorced to an ex who grew violent tendencies and mood swings during lockdown. I also lost a child to miscarriage, now I am planning on wifing a 22 year old rural European Frisian girl to have babies with.
Recently, due to rent hikes I may be buying a house. She is upset it is rushed and we did not get to pick, but she likes to travel back to Europe to see her grandparents (I like seeing them as well, I deployed to some of the same places as her grandpa amusingly), but I told her life is choices, so if family is more important, then we use a starter house to build equity and to stop wasting money on rent. Rent is suppose to go up to 1800 not including utilities, but the house purchase in a good neighborhood for a quality home with a 30 minute further drive from my job is 1,000 a month with the 7% interest already factored in.
The reason I am saying this, is she is realizing she will have to pick money versus family several times in life. You will have to make the choice many times too. Luckily, she is smart enough to pick family but is bummed she cannot have more yet. She also wishes to be a stay at home mother, yet wants me to earn more by working more. I already work overtime, and have no issue working more to provide; however, again due to her female entitlement, she will happily cook but it is sometimes a debate to get her to clean.
How can i spend more time at work if i am cleaning the townhouse when I get home, especially when my job is a traveling body guard so i have to workout and study at home to merely keep my job? Recently, she has been catching on if she wants me to work more, and to finish the second masters degree to try and hit a director position in a few years, she must help clean, although she does not like it. The reason i share this? If you want your man to earn more, you must free up his time so he can study and work harder, but he must have play time to not burn out. Male suicide is astronomically high from burnout. Then, you need to compromise, is family or money more important.
Do you want a slightly smaller home with kids sooner, or a larger home while potentially missing the opportunity to have kids? Do you want time with your husband to be at home, or would you rather rarely seem him so he can work and study more to get you that all-inclusive Caribbean vacation you wanted? I am not saying this to crush your dreams, or to lower your standards, but be grateful for what you have, make choices based upon a long-term life strategy, and realize hearing a "not now" for economic reasons like as towards getting a bigger house is not a "never." No matter the life struggles, if you are persistent, then you will get what you want (if your prioritize it). If you want help strategizing, give me some way to reach out and I will help you make a plan after my fitness test, the house stuff this week, the marriage paperwork, and the citizenship paperwork i need to do for my lady.
Back to what i earn that i supposedly not enough. The not enough earning she talks about is 74k with no student loans and no car loans, but if you factor that she doesn't work, that is the same as a household with both partners earning about 37k each, not a lot but a decent start for her and my personal goals. However, I should make triple figures by age 30, so my household income is not the greatest, but then again if you were looking to be a stay at home mother, that is the kind of work whoever you are dating would have to do just to live average. yet, if you look into couponing, or other feminine activities to benefit the household you can compensate for it. For example, I am getting her taught to cut my hair to save 60$ a month, teaching her to sew and tailor my suits, and doing other activities that help balance it out. I also plan to teach her mini greenhouse aquaponics to reduce grocery costs. A dollar saved is an untaxed dollar earned, that goes back to trying to battle consumerism, an internal battle both women and men must face.
The wall is undefeated. No eggs? No eggs.
5:18 that's what I understand it as
One of my sister (career woman) froze her eggs. She beat the wall, clock or whatever. When she was ready for kids, she just defrosted the goods. If she wants another set, when she hits 80, she could have them. The wall is a joke, in this century
@@playenimplayenim6319she didnt' beat the wall, she ran head first into it. and your placating to her delusion makes you a good sibling.
when she actually gives birth with the high failure rate of that expensive technology, then talk.
@@playenimplayenim6319You can freeze your eggs but your body still ages therefore decreases your chance of healthy pregnancy. Look into the statistics of egg freezing and its success rate. It doesn’t look very good
As usual, I sort of agree with you Dr. Tarraban. Yes, the urge to bear offspring is consistent throughout a woman's fertile period, HOWEVER, there are other factors that are in play here. Humans are the only animals that can override natural, biological urges such as fear, anger, and reproduction urges. BUT, this can only occur for periods of time. Biological urges will always win out over time because they are persistent signaling and the amount of focus to ignore these biological urges can only be sustained for relatively short periods of time. What you refer to as the biological clock is that a woman who has been overriding the child-rearing urge starts to lose her focus and starts to experience these urges at a greater intensity. So, yes the biological does not start ticking louder as a woman approaches the end of her fertility period, but not because the volume is louder, but because that which was used to mask the clock starts to thin and dissipate thus allowing the signaling to register upon the psyche in a more pronounced way.
On my observation there are young generations that they're scared to have children sometimes because of traumatic experiences on their own family like poverty, dysfunctional relationship of their parents , and overall what's happening on earth.
During pandemic I'm so scared about the safety of my children. When I'm alone and I think if nowadays I am on a stage of having family I chose not to have children because of the anxiety and traumatic experiences during pandemic. Now I'm not sure if some women are scared to have no children also with some men. My sharing thoughts but again it's up to the person's preferences on what they want in their life. Most people nowadays think more of themselves and I can't say it's good or bad.
This made so much sense 🤯. Every time you release a video it teaches me to take my time and deeply analyze stuff 👏🏿.
Your proposed solution at the end is perfect but we both know they would never take it. They want to enjoy sexual variety while their smv is high and also enjoy commitment that comes with a high smv at the lowest point of their smv. 🤦🏿.
Thanks for your scholastic contributions
Yea, I think it's one of the few videos which you can't really do anything practical with it's conclusions.
That's how it's like today. And it won't get better.
Their are not rutting animals run byt their smv, and nothing can make them to be- (handmaids' tale is a dystopic case) they have other priorities like study, work, career, giving stuff to society and themselves, travel, possessions, yes their own, status , yes, their own, building an identity, look closely, they are just human beings with ambitions and curiosity plus adventurous, spiritual, experiment is not only sexual. They are the same inside, same organs belong to the same species.
@@14margott a lot of things you can make with your partner & children - even sometimes more fun, so why you wait for 35/40 ? For me better options is sometimes first children then adventures, rising children is easier before 40, after 40 you lose some patient.
He is a great teacher
@7:05 "... most people want what they can't have more than they otherwise would ..." (Dr. T)
A simple, but profound, insight into human nature.
I never thought that the biological clock was an urge to reproduce towards the end of the fertile period. I don't know where you get that from. I've always heard it used just as meaning the passage of time and its implications regarding fertility. The woman hearing her biological clock ticking simply meant a woman being aware of the ever-shortening window in which she can have children. In this sense, the biological clock very much exists.
This would be similar to arguing that my fear about jumping off a cliff is purely psychological. Yes psychology is a key part of it, but it's driven by the biological fact that my bones are going to get crushed if I jump.
Except, when you do get married in your 20’s and they still don’t want to have kids. You always overlook that not all men want this traditional role. The majority of men I dated in my 20’s either never wanted kids, or their 20’s wasn’t the time for them to have them. And 30 year olds NEVER approached me. The only take away here is, panic and anxiety is self induced. So relax ladies, best to be childless by no fault of your own, than forcing a situation that will lead to misfortune.
That's because we have a widespread epidemic in which most women don't offer anything of value to make it worthwhile to most men to risk marriage. If a woman wants kids and a family she needs to be good at attracting a quality mate.
Did you not send out "choosing signals" to 30+ year old men in your 20's...?
As a 20 year old woman, you are not supposed to be dating 20 year old men if you want to get married, you are to date men close to 30 or early 30s
if you are not a top tier woman, the only way to have a family and kids is to relax your dating standards since top tier men have no reason to commit. the modern world is the perfect playground for top 5% men. Why would they stop playing until they are in their 60s? Most women either refuse to accpet they are not top tier or live in the delusion that some top tier man will magically submit to her charm.
Upvoting mostly because it's a breathe of fresh air a woman commenting instead of all these bitter men
As a traditional woman and raised by traditional parents, I was taught to get married young and not too late; to have kids early when I’m still able and healthy so when I’m in my 30s my kids are grown. By then, I can live a life freely without worrying about having kids. So here I am 37 years old I have 4 kids. My oldest is 14 and my baby is 6 and I still look like I’m in my 20s… young and healthy.
There are significant disadvantages to society and all involved when a woman has kids in her 20s and then delegate the parenting to relatives, daycare, and the state in her 30s.
I've heard more people regret becoming parents versus the other way around. People tell me all the time, " I love my children, but I wouldn't choose to do this again". They didn't know or understand the sacrifice that comes with being a parent. I think it's better to approach the situation soberly without making an emotional decision, or caving in to the "fear of missing out".
I am 45 and I have never heard a single parent regret that they became parents, ever.
Spamming the same BS comment lol
@@andersnielsen6044 From what I've heard, it's not "regret" so much as "wow, this is a lot harder than I expected".
I do know one woman who genuinely wishes she hadn't had kids. She never wanted them, had some to please her husband, and then he left her, so she ended up with kids she hadn't wanted in the first place. They were some of the best-behaved and highest-achieving kids I ever met, because they weren't coddled.
I believe in the biological clock.. I think you can feel it only if don't have any children not when you already have at least one . I never thought about kids because I struggled a lot moving to a new country alone, study, etc. Never knew if I wanna have children etc. Few months before turning 27 years suddenly I had only one thing in my mind, having babies etc.. now in my thirties (still without a partner) it didn't change.. I don't perceive myself as old but my body is trying to tell me that yes, if I go further a pregnancy will be more difficult and dangerous.. I can't describe the feeling, but it is here.
The biological clock concept has nothing to do with whether a woman has an urge or desire to have kids. The phrase refers to her physical ABILITY to have kids. By age 30 a woman has lost 90% of her eggs and nothing changes that. Whether or not someone "believes" in a clock is irrelevant. At a certain age she won't be able to have healthy kids. Period. That's the clock.
@@ITech2005 my uncle claims that even men lose their sperm count and ability to have children, but through modern artificial insemination it is possible even around 40.
@@klauseba Yes but that doesn't happen until much much later in life. Even an 80yo man produces enough sperm to knock up an entire village. Men produce MILLIONS of sperm every time we ejaculate and it only takes one to get you pregnant. Even if older men only produce half that much it's still more than enough. Men have to worry more about low testosterone and testicular cancer. Also, to your uncles credit older men do generally have less genetically healthy sperm which increases the likelihood of children with disabilities. But still that doesn't happen until much older. And an 80yo man isn't trying to have kids at that point in his life anyway.
@@ITech2005 there isn't a single woman on earth, throughout recorded history, thay utilized even 1% of the eggs they had. That 10% number is meaningless.
@@rf-uj5sc I dont understand the point youre trying to make. Noone ever said that women birth 100% of their eggs. Anyone thats taken biology knows that you lose them with each menstrual cycle. And how is that 10% number ridiculous when it is the sole determining factor as to whether you can have healthy children? How many eggs you have left is critical if a man is looking to start a family. You sound like youre just in your feelings again and trying to fight reality.
No one understands "biological clock" as you described. This is known as "baby rabies".
"Baby Rabies" is not "I want to give birth" as you imply. It is "I want to have children and care for them". So it makes perfect sense that it hits at the end of 2 decade period if you still don't have them. And no, this will not make a mother of 2 to suddenly want to have more at 39yo.
You are understanding this very wrong.
Most people understand Biological Clock as women's loosing their fertility with age to the point of pregnancy becoming dangerous (mostly past 35yo).
Again another insightful video. Thanks Dr. Tarabin.
Women are highly involved in childbirth and consequent child rearing and so need to find a mate who will both produce healthy children and then provide for the family thereafter. They choose mates slowly and with care. They prefer benevolent men. Thanks.
"Nature is not stupid" Great point. Nature is un-thinking, but definitely not stupid. The structures and systems that work survive - those that don't, die out.
Always dropping golden info! Thank you for your contribution!
Right on. Contraception changed everything.
The feeling of "fomo" doesnt exist but thats what makes it more dangerous. One day you're living life and next thing you know youre 30 and rushing. There are too many lurking variables for this topic. One, for example, is the trauma and baggage someone builds while "living life" in their 20's and thinking that doesnt mess with your mind and soul. It gets significantly harder to stay with someone when all you know is the other "life" you lived.
Its both biological and psychological. We understand the clock as a countdown until degradation, not a meter of best outcomes or drives. Psychological drive increase as FOMO increases due to biological degradation (mixed with some social pressures). Keeping with the biological clock naming is still accurate and appropriate.
I wish women had done more research on IVF treatments.
It is challenging physically, emotionally and the chances are low.
If women who went through that talked about it with young women, more of the young women would have kids earlier.
I think one unspoken piece for the women wanting to "prioritize other things" (not kids) early in life, even if logistically it would make sense to do children first, is that the enjoyment of their youth is inextricably linked with the enjoyment of their sexuality and the opportunities and attention that it brings.
Some women are truly driven by a fulfilling career, but I believe when most women say "career" they actually mean "maximally awesome lifestyle"- and having a bunch of kids and a husband around seriously limits the fun factor here. Not capitalizing on youth is the greater driver of FOMO, IMO.
Correct! Thank you! My relatives and ancestors from India had kids well into their middle ages with normal pregnancies.
The Psychological clock is like entering the last-chance saloon.
I am married and I experienced the real biological clock around 27 years old , like my body was saying “ baby - baby - baby ! “ it was a strong drive and primal feeling , after we had our first baby , it was more of a thought process / family planning . ( this is anecdotal of course )
I’d disagree; the biological clock does exist both physiologically and psychologically in the social structures of human society. As we age our body transitions through it’s growth phases naturally; contextually this means as hormones and bodily changes occur we will perceive it sometime past the change, but with societal reflections abound that clock is a reminder as society assigns perceived status to each person as we age (old vs young) (childbearing capable vs incapable) regardless of gender. Meaning we will acknowledge outwardly from societal pressures and perceptions that the clock is ticking as well as inwardly as bodily changes push us forward throughout our life.
Yes his characterization is an over-simplification of a "DRIVE" and then saying "no such drive exists" in the same way that studies have shown women are more horny in some phases of their monthly cycle and in respect to certain viable biological mates all triggering such feelings. Eg he even says this "When they're ovulating".
The Biological Clock is as you say:
- Late-20s, hitting 30 - a lot of women report feeling old
- These women lose some of the extreme youthful beautiful luster eg skin quality at this age vs younger girls/women
- Experience of dating and wishing for deeper more committed relationships
- Finding all the best mates have been gobbled up
- Friends or sisters marrying
- Feeling broody at the sight of young children instead of "how cute" a deep feeling of "maternal yearning"
- Economic imperative: Work is a slog/grind and switching to house-maker and having a man to take the economic burden is attractive
He hits the nail more accurately later on with respect to Psychological Clock but that's really mincing words: Biologically women's SMV is higher above 30 so it's fair to say they're declining as men's is rising.
There's a lot of sociological discussion suggesting it's all social construct: But that in turn is all built on biological cycles and behaviours and psychological.
A great example of this mis-match is:
House Prices vs Biological Clock
or
Higher Education Tract and Career Path vs Biological Clock
In both cases modern Western society creates a negative mismatch meaning women try to earn enough for all these and become a mother. It's not possible. The big mistake women then make is DELAYING SO LATE then at 35+ their egg quality exponentially reduces towards Menopause - which I'm surprised is not also mentioned in this video as that very much is BIOLOGICAL BASIS influencing timing/planning of pregnancy to raise 1 or 2 or 3 or + kids which sets a limit on how many a woman can have along with economic costs and conditions and prediliction.
@@commentarytalk1446 spot on, this video was a complete hack ( meaning in the worst way )
This was remarkably put. Doc, what's your thought on the The backup mate hypothesis? Ive noticed you mentioned the the good gene hypothesis and how it motivates women. Basically, what I'm asking is have you seen this in your anecdotes or practice?
Its childless Women who experience such urges near 30s why would a woman who has 3 kids will crave more kids
More children for the tribe. Remember that instincts are built for the primitive life, not the modern one.
For most of history, a woman with three kids will see one of the girls die in childbirth, one of the boys die in a hunting accident, and about half the remainder die to disease or starvation. Always better to have spares.
So well said, as always. I get more from your channel with every new video. Thank you.
What you’re saying makes sense. One question though, if the women were mating mostly with the “alpha”, then settling down with the beta, wouldn’t the beta have been phased out of genealogy by now? The stable provider genes would no longer exist, correct?
You dont really get how genetics work? Supposing is a genetic trait (not really, at least genes aren't that determinant in that regard in our current evolutionary state), alfas have alfa and beta children, betas have alfa and beta children. Alfas become betas, betas become alfas, etc. etc. etc. Also, the most known definitions of alfa and beta are flawed as F.
Besides, practically not a single "beta" (how I hate those categorizations) would accept to be a provider without having access to sex.
BESIDES, a man provides, always, a real man provides for its family, if the woman is a cheater thats another business and off the window with her, no real man would accept any other thing than a monogamous marriage.
Fear to lose some money and some houses, etc? Just tank it, that's a what a man does and keeps carrying on.
Bro what?? You realize modern dating culture has only existed for less than 20 years? We had religion (Christians and Muslims, and Jews are more than half the planet), purity culture and shaming, forced marriage, arranged marriage, brides for sale, etc. For the vast amount of human history. These conventions prevented women from exercising their mating strategy.
Remember that the woman was still mating with the beta, in order to keep the resources coming in, and because her urge for babies doesn't go away just because her husband isn't Superman
Also, having access to a swarm of alphas is a modern situation. For most of history, a woman had access to the men near her, and the "alpha" might simply be the least troll-like man in the village.
The title of this video is totally misleading. The author opens by saying that we are all wrong when we use the term "biological clock" and then turns after a few minutes on the lexical part and says that in reality, yes, what everyone thinks of as a biological clock is right but he would call it in another way. Ehhh?!
It seems to me a bit weak to argue a thesis based on how something should be called. Also, still in the video, reference is made to an unspecified hypothesis where it would seem that young women who are already mothers would not have more children over the age of 35, which would confirm that the biological clock does not exist. Or again that the women of the `500 did not have any urgency to procreate after the age of 30 but rather already had children at 18-20 years of age. But what way of juxtaposing arguments is this? Who denies certain things that have nothing to do with the subject of the title?
Disappointed.
Well explained. Right before you clarified it, I was about to suggest separating the term "biological" into two. Psychological and phisiological. The latter can be further separated into two other, based on the time frame. Monthly (like you said) and lifetime (maximum age).
I think for alot of women it is about having kids before we become infertile and the viability of a pregnancy becomes unsafe
I guess I'm "uncommon". My Mom had her first child at 19, then 21, then...42. (me) So, I dont think she was planning any of us but....Oh well. We all passed the DNA test too. Just in case you were wondering.
Heheh, crazy to think your older siblings were more like aunts and uncles.
@@man-observing-world Kinda, but not really. They ARE still my brother and sister.☺
Not really, if a woman has children before 40 it can actually extends the fertile years she has by a few more years. The maximum being up to 50 years old but after that it's a no no.
@@godleveleldritchblast5257 I guess Sarah didn't get that memo in the Bible. She was 90...and she laughed so hard the Most High named her Child,Laughter (Issac)
@@JackieLastrada how long did people live in Sarah's time again?
A lot of women seem to be bad at securing reproduction with high-quality genetic males though; go people-watching at a Walmart if you think I'm wrong.
I suspect you're seeing the failures at Walmart. I notice the apparent quality of people is significantly higher at Target or Publix.
@@stevenscott2136 Lol
I am not 100% convinced that the "biological clock" isn't an actual hormonal change in a woman's body, but you do make a good argument about the psychological impact. I'm pretty sure you're correct about that.
I do, however, disagree with that a woman will make the same money she could have made starting at 30 instead of 20 years of age. As a woman, I believe that in many ways, what makes a woman desirable to men in the mating market is the same thing that makes a woman desirable in the work place. My example to prove this is the increasing number of big corporations willing to pay for their female employees to freeze their eggs instead of losing them to maternity leave.
This is probably controversial to say, but I absolutely feel ageism in the work place is real. Young women are more desired there, too.
That being said, I think your thesis still holds true. I'd just add a second degree to the choice a woman must make in her 20s. A woman will pay a monetary price as a 30 year old mother entering the workforce for the first time. However, It's a price many would be willing to pay if they are educated on the ramifications of their choices. I think I would have if I knew then what I know now, but then again, I was 20 years old...lol
It’s the psychological aspect of knowing you don’t have a child and knowing your time to ever have your own child is dwindling. Baby fever is a very real thing
I took the Biological Clock to be that actual losing of Fertility. What you describe as the Biological Clock is the Awareness of what I consider it to be. The head melting lies in the difference of those definitions.
Yes, the clock is always there
But the alarm isn’t physiological
Young women seak men attention the most in their lives. I am sort of surprised you mentioned the opposite, since I've learned that in a psychological book about female brain (The Female Brain: Louann Brizendine).
I'm not sure if I agree with the first point about a woman's urge having to come at peak reproductive capacity in order to show there's a "clock." the natural preference of men for young women, along with the willingness for sexual activity by young women doesn't require any special urge for reproductive success. it's only when a woman doesn't yet have children and her expiration date is approaching that I would understand that nature needs to step in to motivate her while she still can.
so is it biological or psychological? I'll say it's not black and white. psychological FOMO might actually have a biological basis. whatever the source of the "clock" the understanding of what to do about is is the same. by this I'll say that a biological clock exists, then also another one or more, like the ovulation clock.
I feel for the girls. at the same time I'm not going to "just make it happen" because this or other pressures unless I'm dam good and ready. now in late middle age, I don't think that will ever happen. I actually feel accomplished for avoiding being used. I'll still go play with the 20somethings when I feel like it. even that pressure no longer has such influence over me as it did in the past 😎
This is the kind of information many women could benefit from, rather than feminist propaganda which, when lived out, leaves many depressed and lonely as they age.
Having children in the early adulthood and pursuing other goals later in the life makes a lot of sense. There is however one obstacle often overlooked. In the early adulthood people are quite vulnerable, don't have resources and wisdom to navigate their lives with ease. Bearing a child only adds to their vulnerability. They need external support, which in past times was provided by their families. Now it's often not the case, young women don't receive such a support and are often encouraged to quickly become independent and fend for themselves. They also often don't learn from their parents how to build a fulfilling relationship and are forced to learn it on their own, which this also takes time and practice. This of course may only be my perception, but I think putting all the pressure and responsibility on young women may not work.
They can still get an older man. All the chicks from work have guys supporting them financially, they just can't capitalize on the opportunity
@@wmd13194 That's true, but in such a case they need to choose wisely, because if they don't have any additional support, they will be completely dependent on the guy.
In th past it was called dowry paid by her family. Those who did not have dowries went into service as spinster maids or into whoring and an early grave.
I've been following Dr Orion since his beginning almost. Slowly I felt that his narrative leaned more and more towards what men want and how women should change to counter the current situation of low birth rate and relationships and finding partners etc. But this video sounds so much rational and women-friendly 😅
Myself belonging to "that" group of "elderly" women, I'm sensitive to whats being said about us. Good job doc!
what we do understand is that while there is no "urge" to reproduce towards the end of a woman's fertility, there is definitely a biological tendency to become less fertile over time. I never really believed that there was any increased or decreased urge to procreate at any particular point in a woman's life. Clearly, social and psychological forces are stronger during the time when being a parent is accessible to both prospective parents and social pressure to do so are greatest. However, it is a medical fact that fertility is reduced over a lifespan. otherwise, we should attempt to argue that menopause does not exist. I think medically, that is termed a "biological clock". All other motivations are just social pressure or anxiety about wanting to or others wanting you to be a parent. those are termed "nagging".
My Man Orion... You are definitely leading the Manosphere League in batting average for 2023. You just don't miss!
Doc low key wants us to date single mothers 🤣
NO! Absolutely you shall not date to marry single mothers, those wilful and deliberate types.
Thank you, Dr. Taraban, for another great episode! Though I don't always agree with everything, I enjoy your point of view and it definitely gives me something to think about.
As a woman who is almost 40, got married young and had three kids in my 20s, I can definitely testify it is better to do it this way. After they began going to school and I found I had extra time on my hands, I was able to invest in my personal interests and hobbies that now generate some income as well. I have always wanted to be a wife and a mother and was fortunate enough to find a great partner to do it with. For me, it wasn't so much about "the biological clock," but about wanting this special experience that is only available to women and only for a certain time of their lives. So, yes, I think you are right. Call it FOMO if you will :). I always looked at it this way: if you are invited to a feast and out of all available dishes the most special and delicious meal is only served to you at a certain time of the feast. You can choose to fill up on appetizers and will have no room for the main course. Or you can partake of this special meal and feel satiated for the rest of the night because that's what you actually came for! Motherhood is the most profound, colorful and emotional experience of my life. I learned so much about the world and about myself through having and raising children. I can never understand why some women would deliberately choose not to go through it. Isn't it what we came here for?
Yes, well said. Nothing compares to my motherhood experience and I am so grateful I was able to appreciate this when I was young. I wouldn’t trade it for the world.
Truly a solid reply to him.
It's curious what you wouldn't agree with him about.
He specializes in Men's issues, and he really does understand them from our viewpoint.
Please take the last word here stating where you don't agree if you will.
My reply to you is not to start an argument.
I well admit I may be missing something you spot where he gets it wrong.
@@therealstunbmun
Not this specific episode, but watching some previous videos, I would sometimes catch myself thinking: "huh, I don't know if that's true." Some things Orion says just don't necessarily align with my own experience. I always do appreciate his point of view though.
Scientific research and being on top of your game. Proud to be a human. Or Art. Proud to be living among other people at this time.
I guess the major thing women really miss out on by having kids young is other options for men.
I guess you don't feel like you missed out, because you have a good man, but what is your experience?
Do you feel like you have missed out in anything by having kids young, and does it bother you?
More like an Ovulation Clock.
But the biological clock we men refer too, is when a woman stops looking and feeling like a youthful girly girl which we find most attractive.
The most attractive woman is 18 years old. thats why most men of all ages chase and approach 18 year old girls.
As a man, i would love the second part, i would give my total support... If divorce didn't exist. The thing is, as the world is today, these women would make sure to secure resources while getting out of relationship to do whatever they want if that mean the marriage is on the way, mainly in that thing called "Date casually", with exception of that, i would love to do everything else with her or support her, travel the world? Sure, with the kids. Dedicate to our friends? Of course, we didn't born glued, but dedicate a romantic time to each other, carrer? Well, i would be working 8 hours a day, children are at school, go for it girl.
I always remember how ironic Bono Vox, U2's vocalist, find ironic that people used "One" as their marriage song, since it's a song about separation. But all whole lyrics just show up a couple that struggling to be together and want to be together despite their differences and individuality.
This makes a lot of sense. The drive to reproduce at a young age is so strong that many people will break any rules they profess to believe in. This is one of the reasons I question the idea of free will. It seems that often our biology supersedes good sense.
Young people are not taught self control, so they will fail at suppressing their reproductive urges often. Also sexuality saturates the western culture as well.
@@1MoreTurn I grew up as an evangelical Christian and self control was taught constantly. We even had weekly accountability meetings. That didn't stop many young people from doing the deed if they thought they couldn't get caught.
@@1MoreTurn It's only a moral failure if free will exists. I think our biology is more powerful than morals. It's simply beyond Good and Evil and however someone is raised. Even if free will exists, we humans are shit at making good decisions.
You and Rollo would break the internet.
I would like to see that.
No it won't. Rollo is the OG, Orion is nice to have.
Once anyone starts working, they generally amass financial liabilities - mortgage, car payments, insurance and so on, so it's very difficult to get off of that treadmill once you get on. Women's bodies usually bounce back much better when they have kids young. By having kids in their early 20s, women can get back to work in the 30s and then spend their 40s, 50s, 60s and onwards traveling and doing other fun "me things." Do it bassackwards is what most women do today and it's counterproductive.
With all due respect the same point is made we just misnamed the cycles thank you for that correction Dr
I have watched many of your videos and believed that you are far more intelligent than I am in order to come up with those mind blowing analysis. However, for this one, I disagree with your last point - women should consider having children in their 20s when their SMV is at the highest. Yes, it makes totally LOGICAL sense because they do have a time limit biologically to have children. However, as you and I both are aware, women rarely make decisions based on logic. For a man being in my 40s and currently enjoying my own highest SMV, it's nearly impossible for me to "settle down" with just ONE woman. I can not imagine that a beautiful woman in her 20s at her peak SMV wants to be with just ONE man. That's the time for her to play. Why would she want to settle down and bear the pain of childbirth and the hard work of raising a child? She wouldn't.
Most do try that by being promiscuous early.....with many HVM. They are practicing pregnancy but block it with pills.
She wouldn't because the importance and influence of religion has eroded. Govt in cahoot with the Market forces have encouraged people to indulge in such a lifestyle.
Secondly all these movements - feminism, lgbt, green etc start in the US on purpose because its a conquered territory. The elites who rule this country don't mind experimenting to further America's geo-political interests.
This is the mismatch of modern societal value and our relatively ancient biological value 😊