Debating the BEST team in the world and Australia's resurgence | Aotearoa Rugby Pod
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- Опубліковано 10 бер 2024
- The lads shift their attention to the Six Nations to start this week's episode as big results have added a new dimension to the rugby world's biggest debate. Super Rugby Pacific had its share of big results, so the lads chat about the Reds, Drua and Hurricanes' big wins.
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Everyone seems to forget that Springboks also won a Lions Series in-between the 2 world cups, during a time when, the players couldn't train properly due to covid rules in SA
Its just the irish who think they are the best thing that ever happened to rugby. What can you expect out of a team under such toxic management? Everyone with a brain and two eyes should be able to come to reasonable conclusions that South Africa is the best team in the world right now and New Zealand the second best. This is not up for discussion.
@@mauroger86100%
Pretty sure nobody in the Ireland camp thinks they're the best in the world, it was just the Irish media saying that.
@@TomFarrow-oo5wm nothing wrong to feel or think that you are the best in the world. I believe it a prerequisite for greatness in any discipline. I am not hating them for that. I am hating them for the arrogance they display, from Farrell all the way down to the players. Zero humility shown by any of them. Win or lose. Also, they arent the most exciting team to go watch to be hones, their style is boring af.
@@mauroger86 well sure they probably believe they can be the best in the world, but I'm sure they're grounded enough to realise that without a WC title they aren't there yet. I'm not sure I understand what arrogance you're talking about? What comments have they made that make you think that?
For me as an Englishman, SA are the best. Out of every team they are the one who make me the saddest when we play them as they are just so tough to beat and have beaten us in so many World Cup encounters.
They cope with pressure incredibly well.
I think the irish bought into identity politics too much and though if they identify as champions and the best, they are actually the best haha
@@mauroger86As a Frenchman I’d say Ireland are either the best of tied best. They beat South Africa in a World Cup cauldron. Everyone putting then down is because they don’t have the history but right now they’ve beaten everyone consistently, very few teams do that.
@@mauroger86 what has identity politics to do with anything? If you knew anything about Irish mentality then you're as far as possible off the mark in thinking that we think we're the best in any scenario. Up until 4-5 years ago we went into most any major Test match vs any Top 5-6 team in the world with an underdog mentality. But we're objectively much better than we used to be then.
The issue is that Irish pundits like Heaslip and Horgan see this and just see a generation of Irish players that play a much more improved game than their own, and are romanticising the success- which I understand. Still doesn't mean we all think that way, and most of us go into any Top 5 clash now with respect and an expectation of a good match with a good adversary. That's the only healthy mentality to approach a clash imo.
Yeah agree! Boks win when it matters most.
@@LeMerchSA left 9 points on the field. Ireland didn’t beat SA, SA lost that game. Very similar to their previous game as in Dublin when they lost the game by 3 points after getting a red card in the 15min. The last time Ireland can actually say they beat the springboks was in 2017 during there worst year ever, the same year the AB clean the Boks up 57-0
Ireland rugby, Netherlands football and South Africa cricket = same whatsapp group
Say what? Oh, whos the champs?
@@fallschirmjager0000 South Africa
If only there was a tournament to figure out who the best team in the world is, we wouldn’t need to have this pointless debate😂
🤣😂
Or a algorithmic rating system…
@@jacqloockexactly
The world cup is pretty poor way to decide who is actually the best.
England got to a semi-final (and ended up finishing third!) yet who did they have to beat to get that far? NZ got to a final but only had to win one game to do so. SA won the world cup but were already beaten by Ireland.
It’s very flawed.
@@conorfurlong It’s only flawed for teams who can’t win knock out games.
It's not a debate, they literally just had a tournament to decide that 😂
Exactly and they choked. Ireland are a great team, but not the best, the sooner they realize that, the better off they will be.
🤣🤣🤣 exactly
@@mauroger86yet they beat SA.
@@conorfurlong that’s not how tournaments work 😂 they may have won that battle but they didn’t win the war!
@@conorfurlong good on you. Then Ireland will lift the Springboks and we'll lift the WC
Man this show is so much better than the breakdown!
And how. Humility comes to mind
They actually talk about the Australian teams and treat Super Rugby as a competition rather than just a training ground for ABs
Breakdown is a "wish we were rugby league" moan fest.
@@MrBreakdownBoy the fact that two ex All Blacks actually saying that. Says a lot about NZ rugby right now. That’ would have been blasphemy before.
Tactical insight on this show is on a diff level. Every episode I watch I learn something new
Day 1590 as World Champions 🏆
Nice. As an All Black supporter I would be making the same point. 😊
Love it
Ireland fan here. It's only a few months since the World Cup which SA won. They were amazing in that comp so SA are clearly the best currently. But it's close and Ireland is not far away.
Also, some context is important regarding the 'Ireland being the best team in the world' comments. They came from ex-Wales international flanker Sam Warburton and from England coach Steve Borthwick prior to the Ireland-England game. While I do think some of the Irish media get a little bit carried away, I think it's clear that this Irish team is an exceptional team.
To me the debate is stupid because the result can and never will be decided. The planned SA / Ireland games are hardly the decider. SA is already blooding new players and the issue of who is the best is at a point in time, not some time in the future.
The reason the world cup is such a good test for who is the best in the world is because it is the only tournament that exhausts the depth of a team's skill. IMO, the main reason Ireland lost that quarter was because they had the lowest player rotation of any of the top eight teams in the tournament at that stage. That is why it should be no surprise that new Zealand and south Africa have dominated the competition. They may square up fairly equally when you compare your best 15 against theirs. It starts to look different when you compare your best 30.
They are a very good team, just not good enough to win the thing. If consistency was essential they should not have been beaten by NZ. Claiming to be the best in the world in between contests is like kissing your sister and claiming you’re Casanova.😊
Great analysis mate!
OK, so if NZ had to play SA, Scotland and Ireland in three weeks (with Ireland getting an extra two day break before their match) do you think the result would have been the same?
@@porcupineinapettingzoo We will never know, will we. We do know that SA played Scotland, Ireland, France, England, and New Zealand, etc and won the whole thing. Lost both their top hookers, their starting lock, winger, and inside back. The tournament tests your depth like no other tournament.
As an Irish fan, I have to agree with this. Strength and depth is the goal for South Africa in the four-year period between world cups. Ireland have a great team but do suffer when it comes to rotation. Even though we’ve managed to increase our strength of depth And that’s from an Irishman!
What is the point of having a WORLD CUP if you're not going to agree that the winner is the best team? Might as well scrap it then if it means nothing. Ridiculous
I don’t necessarily disagree but you could literally just use the same logic the other way around. If the games in between mean nothing then what’s the point? We should just scrap them and play each other once every four years. The fact is that both the World Cup and everything in between matter.
@@kainoizking yes true, I don't think we should discard these other tournaments like the six nations, but we should recognize that their purpose is not to determine who the best team in the world is, that's what the world cup is for 😉 ultimately, I think people are just over hyping ireland. Thank you for your comments! Have a great day 🌼
@@Kaytlin_ yeah I think I would mostly agree with that however I definitely dont think Ireland are being overhyped. I guess we’ll truly find out in a few months time when they head to SA though. Likewise, have a good one :)
@@kainoizking We will.... Ireland is in for a hiding. You heard it here first. They will go home without winning a single game against the reigning Rugby Union World Champions. Go Bokke!
@@Kaytlin_ in honesty its all about the difference in mentality between a team who uses 3 years to build to win a WC and B&IL vs a team who does'nt do well in WCs and a brilliant team with 79% win ratio vs a team with 69% in between.
Its a comparison in hemisphere mentality where in a WC year the top 2 team in the 6N are their favourites and clubs overplaying their top players vs the south where reduce games in the RC to prevent WC fatigue and teams on the tournament prepare their depth, winning the tournament will just be a bonus. I know i would take back to back WCs and BIL win than playing 29 and losing 3, 2 of those 3 loses are QF knock out games.
What a no-brainer. The whole point of having a World Cup is to establish who the World Champion is. The All Blacks between 1988 and 2010 are ultimately defined as not being able to convert when the question was asked. If you want to subscribe to the “consistency” or “winning percentage” argument, you have to have a points championship INSTEAD of a World Cup tournament. What’s next? Declare the winner of Super Rugby by adding up all the points scored in the season and ignore who actually won the games in the knock-out round? I’m an All Blacks supporter, so I know that actually winning the Cup means as much as it does because it proves you are champions when it counts. Congratulations South Africa, you are the best in the world until the tournament in 2027 is decided. Everyone else are just pretenders.
Well, you pretty much explained it, the world cup doesnt determine who the best team is, we would need a round robin tournament for that. When NZ lost to France in 2007, did France suddenly become better than NZ? Of course not, it would be insane to think that. The truth is that this south african team has failed time and time again to win the Rugby Championship and the "we dont care" argument doesnt do it for me. The lack of interest in the Rugby Championship is mostly due to the fact that the ABs always win
100% agree. We were the best team going into 2003, 2007, 2011. Amongst the best in 95, 99. All AB fans know that number one record doesn't mean Jack if you don't win the WC. Sorry Ireland but as much as it pains me, SA are Kings till they're knocked off their perch in 2027
Something that seldom gets factored in when praising Ireland is how rarely they ever travel to the Southern Hemisphere, or at all frankly. Since 2018, they’ve travelled to the Southern Hemisphere exactly THREE times: a series in Australia, the World Cup in Japan (if this even counts) and a series in New Zealand.
The overwhelming majority of their games are played on home soil or a stone’s throw away in Europe. Teams like South Africa and New Zealand have played roughly 40% of their games in Europe in that period and will fly the breadth of the planet just to make it to Argentina, Africa and Australia etc. for their Rugby Championship games.
Come back to me when Ireland can remain dominant like South Africa and New Zealand while clocking those miles and securing wins in their oppositions’ fortresses. One win in 120 years in South Africa and two in New Zealand. Give me a break.
Well said!!
Fair point but it’s not like they’re actively avoiding it, considering from 2019-2021 that things came up like World Cup years, Covid and a lions tour.
What I want to know is what do results that pre-date even the birth of current players (even the coaches) have anything to do about rating teams in current era though?
Last 10 years, Ireland have overall positive win rates against SA, Aus and NZ.
5-2 against SA
5-1 against Aus
5-4 against NZ
That's pretty impressive no matter how you try to slice it and points to Ireland having potentially turned a corner on the standard of their rugby. Going to be interesting to see how they continue to go. 2018 won series in Aus (Can't blame them for covid cancelling 2020 tour) and then beat NZ there after.
Let's at least try to give credit where credit is due.
@@matthewvanrensburg3824 Good numbers. Now only consider important games and your numbers will give you something else. Ireland has never knocked out SA neither NZ in a WC. On the previous two WCs they were knocked out by NZ... this was after they won a series against NZ (which was not as serious as a knockout) and after they won a group game against SA (which eventually meant a loser gets to avoid NZ). Ireland is extremely good. But SA and NZ really aim for the WC. In between WCs they are preparing for the next WC. So to beat them in a non-WC and non-knockout game is questionable to me. I would not consider myself best until I am able to knock them out in a very important game. ENG knocks out SH teams and there is no question about that, historically. Only team that made it to the semis last year. They are very underrated.
@@SiyaSox Gotta love all the mental gymnastic contradictions🤣
Im a Saffa, so bias obviously plays a role, but this 'best team in the world' chat is quite tiresome. That said, if we are going to ignore the world rankings and the world cup, then what is the purpose of even having these. Ireland are a great team, the Boks are a great team and NZ are a great team. Very little between them except one team holds the world cup and is ranked number one. So if we have to objectively choose a 'best team in the world' it must be SA for now. Ireland have won the last 3 vs us. but all of which have been played in Europe, that has to count for something. Lets see when they tour SA later in the year.
"I agree, Mike. Let's see how many Webb Ellis cups these nations have. Currently, in the history of the game, South Africa is first and New Zealand is second. You can't become a world champion or be the best just by playing at home."
Yeah well said I agree with you, its very hard to pick who is the best team right now and kind of pointless anyway I feel.
Well said!
I totally agree with you. I think over time, the only thing that will matter is who won the most world cups, just like in soccer. For example, Argentina and Uruguay have won more South American Cups than Brazil, but everybody consider Brazil the best team in the world because they have won the most world cups.
Rather be the reigning world champ then the best in the world
Finally! A rugby show that is talking some sense. I don’t care what the Irish say…you can win as many 6 nations trophies as you like BUT I bet you that the Irish would swap every single one for just 1 World Cup. The two best teams in the world are South Africa & New Zealand.
I've stopped watching the breakdown and replaced it with this! BRILLIANT and unbiased punditry! Love your work guys and yes the boks are thee best team on the planet and they will cement it even further when they strangle Ireland in July🤓
Agreed! Jeff is a joke.
Breakdown definition: "a complete lack of physical, mental or emotional vitality".
Never has a TV show been more aptly named....
I really enjoy this show, compared to Goldie, JK and that team I find you guys are far more balanced in your views and opinions and far less bias.
Love it and keep up the great work. One of my favourite rugby shows and definitely my favourite in the Southern Hemisphere.
You three are the best, most unbiased rugby pod in the world. In a world where every pundit is chasing clickbait headlines, I appreciate your balanced and well-informed conversations. Love, an NH-based Springbok fan.
Gee whizz this show is so much better to watch than the one that started "breaking down" from the get go.
The people in this video don't seem to realise that scrums are an intergral and beatiful part of the game known as rugby.
Felix Jones employed a defensive structure that has been designed over a 8 year period from the South Africans, it worked.
Eh...you are aware Jones was a coach with SA?
You misread, That is what I am implying@@Alias-gy3tz
8 years is implying that felix was with sa@@washerdryer3466
The point I am trying to make is that south African tactics are being used to beat the best teams
Thank you from South Africa.
Ireland haven’t played in South Africa for like 8 years.
Good luck Ireland, you gonna need it at altitude
@@adrianchetty778and when they did they went with a second string side and won.
@@aidanmasterson50dont be so bitter. The Irish lost to the worst SA team ever 😂
@@thegoat4124 how many years ago? 8 or more?
@@aidanmasterson50 your point was that they won not how many years ago. This is very simple 🙂
As a Welly born living in Qld, its bloody awesome that my Canes and Reds are doing well! Lets goooo
My new favourite Rugga show. Excellent views / Discussion. Unbiased. Bye Bye Goldie et al...
Literally, SA won the last two world cups and a British Lions series. On both WCs Ireland could not pass QFs. The best team, to some, is the team that has never went past the QFs of the WC, let alone winning it. IRE, NZ, FRA, SA and ENG are the teams to consider on this matter and any one of them can win against any other team on any given day. Main difference in these teams is SA and NZ aim for the WCs and they are the teams that are most successful currently and they are taking turns, currently it's SA's turn. I would therefore give this to SA. I would not count winning less important games that much. Wales beat SA 3 times before the 2019 WC, but when they met on the QF SA was expected to win. Some of these games are practice games for SA and NZ, trying strategies, giving certain players experience, etc. EURO teams win these games and think they are better than these teams. IRE won a series against NZ in New Zealand prior 2019 WC. On the QF they got knocked out by NZ by 46-14.
The secret is its not just the WC. In NZ we our ABs aim to win every game. We go into mourning if it doesn't happen. The Boks are the same. That's the difference I think, our countries live and breathe rugby, it's our DNA
South Africa is the best🏆🏆🏆🏆🇿🇦
Sooner stay in New Zealand
South Africa have faced by far tougher opposition than Ireland and also won a British and Irish lions tour. Can’t wait for the Irish Bok series
So what the British Irish
lions only won one test series in 1971 and lost 10 to the All Blacks with 1 draw.
The Springboks in between World Cups played the most different players. They rotate and experiment, they also had a lot of injuries at different points, and played majority of their games away from home, or at home without a crowd. This narrative that they didn’t dominate between world cups is flawed. They were also the only country not to play in 2020, meaning they had a year less preparation than everyone else for the World Cup, which is why they had to experiment so much. 2 World Cup wins and British Irish Lions Series win. They’re the best, no question. When South Africa have to win a game, they do it. European teams play fewer games in the SH than the SH team play in the NH. The last time Ireland and France played in South Africa was 7 and 8 years ago. No players have to travel more during the international season than the SH, especially the Springboks and Argentina. In a World Cup, everyone is in the same place for a long time, which is exactly why the SH always dominates, because everyone settles in the location, and that’s why South Africa won back to back World Cups. They are simply the best, NZ are second. End of debate. Ireland and France can have fun playing against the dead wood in Europe, and then they can play the real teams at home every year and think they’re good when they beat a string Bok team. Or by getting favourable red cards in a NZ series.
Yes!
Please, Breakdown crew, take notes on how to conduct an actual rugby show. JP, Bryn and Ross have clearly watched ALL the games and not just highlights, they’ve actually done analysis and have their notes with them on the games, they clearly pay attention to the rugby world and bring popular discussion topics on the show to discuss and most importantly they’ve spent the appropriate time and put the focus on the teams that’s have impressed. The breakdown team spent little to no time talking about the Reds after beating the out and out como favourites, they spend no time talking about the 6nations and they don’t have any real game analysis to speak of. ARP along with Rugby Direct are so far ahead of the breakdown it’s embarrassing.
But you get to listen to the media superstars!😅
@@fossilmatic 😂😂
Irish fan and to get it out of the way first - Saffas are the best team in the world no doubt about it.
However i think the "best team in the word debates" are getting very old and not because im an Irish fan but because they are the source of so much agro and infighting amongst fellow fans of the best sport on earth and a sport thats founded on respect and integrity.
I think its important to remember that these comments, articles and social media posts are coming from pundits and media companies who have a vested interest in clicks and engagement regardless of whether that engagement is positive or negative. I really think its a scenario where for the sake of numbers we are undermining the integrity of the game by jumping on low hanging fruit arguments that no fans actually believe!
Could be way off but thats my take - I struggle to remember another time when nearly all the top comments under rugby articles are argumentative although more so on FB to be fair
I'm watching this for the humour .. not disappointed
Man this is solid pundit work. Fair assessments.
The real difference is if you compare the Springboks’ and NZ’s second best 15’s with Ireland and France’s. They wipe the floor with them.
No they wouldn’t.
@@LeMerchYou only have to look at Ireland A Vs All Blacks XV.. 19 - 47.
You might have to rethink your stance.
@@SplatWun NZ won the first test 42 - 19 then look what happened LOL
@@LeMerch Did you not read the original comment properly? He mentioned "SECOND..."
You know, second team/second stringers....
Yeah, well.... All Blacks XV smoked Ireland A, on November 4th 2022. 😅
@@SplatWunSo did the first team, then they got smoked twice.
But congrats on your 2nd string team winning their 1 series game. Pretty sure they would be smoked if they played again.
As a SAFFA, I have always respected the All Blacks as being the benchmark in world rugby. Yes, results by their own standards have been a bit lean, but that will change under RAZOR.
Yes, the Springboks are the world champions AND world number one so by extension, the best team on the planet.
Kudos to these guys for being “impartial “ and calling the Boks the best team on the planet.
Thanks guys 👏👏👏
I have a suspicion that it won't change much under Razor, at least not at first. With respect to them, the All Blacks in recent times have not had the same kind of forward parity as they require to set their backline on the front foot and analysis of most of the games they lost shows them actually being dominated up front by the opposition forward packs. Now that they are losing so many of their "trench fighters", and with SR being played in the style that the Breakdown clearly want the world to replicate, we are seeing fast, skillful forwards coming to the fore and, while these guys are very good with ball in hand, they will not be quite so effective against strong packs.
Of course SR is making this worse; with little to no competition for NZ teams, these guys never have to front up to strong forward packs and so they are forging themselves only against each other. Take Savea, Coles, Taylor, Whitelock, Retallick and co out of the picture and you have a new forward pack with little to no experience regarding what is required to be a forward pack.
That is not something you can really fix with coaching, it is the players at Razor's disposal who might turn out to be the problem.
Time will tell.
Watching the wallabies always puts a spring in my step.
These best of the best contenders should actually hold a competition, play against each other and the team with the most wins, takes the title as the best of the best. If a team has to play tougher matches, they need to step up. Wait…that sounds like a World Cup.?!
Boks lost the whole of the post-2019 win year, not a single match in 2020, that was the year to carry the form through before starting to prepare for 2023. Interesting to see what happens this year.
If only they could create a knock out style competition series to determine who the best rugby team in the world is… that would save us analysing and putting our own interpretation on all of the statistics.
This irish team is fragile when it counts, never won a knock-out game in a WC and now with a grand slam on the line...
So what does tht mean cause they lost again lrish they not the world champions ok last this true Irish lost again New Zealand so what does that mean that New Zealand are If thats the case what's the team that beat a team tht beat Ireland ((South africa)
Grand slam's already out the door on Sunday.
Irish team fragile?? That’s a stupid statement
This is such a simple question to answer. What's the win rate of Brazil vs the win rate of Argentina in soccer? No one knows ... who has won the most soccer world cups? Everyone knows Its Brazil. Win rate is a gauge and it's not like everyone plays the same opponents as the other anyway. I know SA are tough to love, but the world measures by World cups in all sport. Its them until the next winner is not them.
As a South African, I feel this "who is the best team in the world" (including who is number 1), topic is very unimportant. From a coaches point of view, of course, they will be looking at what teams are doing, how they are evolving the game to create solid tactics on how to counter an opponent.
For us fans and ex players, we dont need to get hung up about this.
The only thing I care about is where is the Webb Ellis trophy.
The canes are looking good, but if i'm not wrong 2 of their tries were scored when the Blues had a man on the ground being attended to by a medic and they only won by 8 points against a Blues team that was heavily disrupted after the HIAs. I reckon as much as Havili is probably the cru's best 12, he's needed at 10 where they're really missing an experienced head and there's other fullas that can fill in at 12 good enough.
We had four of the greatest quarter finals ever seen at the World Cup and three of the best six nation games this weekend. Rugby WC viewership is up 30% from 2015 WC. It has to be said .. maybe this "games boring .. need bums on seats" narrative pushed by NZ is just in their mind.
This is why the “must change the rules” BS drives me nuts. I’ve watched rugby for 50y and it’s never been better.
NZ has a regional attendance problem and are trying to change the world game to accommodate what they believe is the issue. Unfortunately, or fortunately as the rest of the world see it, it's not their game to change.
They’re salty because since they kicked South Africa out of Super Rugby, rugby has been thriving and growing everywhere in the world except Australia and NZ.
@@jameswyatt4443 We do miss S.A. that is no lie.
@@jacqloock in Super Rugby, they are already playing the rugby that they want to watch and want the rest of the world to replicate. Having no tough forward pack to challenge you, the average NZ side has opted for fast, skilled forwards but players who are going to come unstuck when a strong pack step onto the park.
I don't know when this happened or why but it seems that NZ is no longer capable of creating tough-as-nails forwards and with so many of the current crop either retiring or not available due to not being in NZ, I understand why they are pushing for a law change that takes the forward power away from the opposition - after all, forwards being dominated appears to be the common denominator in most of their recent losses. And I can't see that changing any time soon; not without law changes or a radical change in the way their SR teams operate.
I have never met a single Irish fan (not pundit) who honestly thinks we are the best. One of the best is as far as most of us are willing to go.
Thoughts on the SA Cheetahs, Griquas etc joining Super Rugby. Have them based out of Aus/ NZ.
No. All that will do is have SA pay the largest share of the overall income like we used to do when we were back in SR, and give NZ forward packs that will challenge them and force them to rethink their strategies.
As SAFFA's, we don't want either of those!
Ireland are the best team in the world‼️
I am South African and I really don't mind not being the best because it takes the target off our backs.
What I like about the Boks is that they are never really dominant, they are always a surprise package and are underestimated.
With a 'newish' coaching staff and the burden of emulating past performances, we will see what happens to the Boks. Let the year play out, there's still a SA vs IRE game to be played this year.
It’s the springboks. Not rocket science
As much as I'd like to pick a northern hemisphere team being English. Don't think we can deny SA any more. Double world champ status speaks for itself. That being said I think games vs Ireland and NZ would be very competitive.
Considering Ireland's winrates against the top nations in the world the past 10 years, they knocking at the door for the current era.
5-2 against SA
5-1 against Aus (incl series win in Aus)
5-4 against NZ (incl series win in NZ)
SA tour is going to be fire regardless of what happens.
James P playing it safe up there in Browns Bay 😂
You are damn right when you said South African mentality
5:50 yes, 85% is surely higher than 79%. I guess the question is is who did you play in that period?
still my fav NZ rugby pundits
Ireland lost in the World Cup because they overplayed their players. South Africa and New Zealand are the best because they know how to rotate and experiment, so that when it counts, they’re always at their best.
I understand and even enjoy these conversations about "the best in the world", however there is a reason we have a World Cup. South Africa are now the two time defending champions with four world cups overall. We are clearly a team that understands that the World Cup is the pinacol of Rugby and is the ULTIMATE decider of who is the best in the world! Ireland can have a recent higher percentage winning rate all they want, but until they win a World Cup they cannot and should not even be in the talk for best in the world. Rankings are one thing, World Cup trophies are another! New Zealand is the only other team I would speak about along side South Africa as they have 3 world cups along with their domination of rugby during their best period, and they put in the big performances when it actually matters, AT THE WORLD CUP!
Imagine if there was a more objective way to see which team is the best? ;)
4:41 you have to put this into context. The prize money for winning. The six Nations is approximately £16 million. That’s the reason why northern hemisphere teams focus so much on winning the six Nations. Even if it’s at the expense of the World Cup.
South Africa has the two best packs in the world. They have Esterhuisen and De Allende. They have Am and Kriel. They have Willemse and Le Roux. They have Polalrd and Lebbok. They have Cheslin, Arendse, Mpimpi etc. The quality in depth is crazy! Let's also realize that SA lost a lot of momentum after 2019 because of covid, much more than any other team. Them winning in 2019 and 2023 are all against the odds.
It's clear to me looking at results in the world cup of the past. Teams competing against each other on a frequent basis knowns what they are against and are prepared for the game. If you come against the unknown then only you gets tested.
Historically teams like NZ, SA, England and probably France could have produced 2 squads good enough to win a WC, Ireland Scotland Wales, and other countries can just about put together 1 team, so its not a level playing field in that respect. Ireland have been brilliant and consistent over the last few years, but best in the world didn't sit well with us given our WC performances. SA is the current no. 1 and the 2 tests in July will be interesting.
Not really sure why this is being debated. SA won the world cup only a few months ago. It's also a poisoned chalice to be the number one team in the world between world cups.
As an Englishman there's really no debate, SA are the best unquestionably at the moment. They won back to back WC's with a Lions series win sandwiched between. They're number 1 on rankings and they beat Scotland, France, England and NZ to get there. Now that being said the only small discussion is the WC final, to me it seems that NZ would have won without the red card, but then ifs and buts are only hypothetical. Either way, Ireland lost to NZ at the WC, that makes them 3rd best in my books.
But they beat South Africa? I think it’s so close between those 3 but I can see England join them soon.
@@LeMerch yeah but any of the top 5 can beat any of the rest of the top 5 on any given day. It's about results against multiple teams over time, hence the world rankings. We might also argue it's about peak performance level and seeing as most teams peak for the WC, those results are most telling (hence me ranking Nz above Ireland).
When New Zealand had an " 84-85%" winning ratio, the opposition were not as good as they are now.
When New Zealand beat Italy 70-6 in the 1st World Cup in 1987, ( I was only 5, but have watched repeats) . Italy were 13 years away from joining what would become the 6 Nations. The Irish performance when beating them 36-0 is arguably a much better performance. Especially considering Italy then went on to beat a very good Scotland side 31-29.
Ireland have beaten SA the last 3 times they have played. including in a World Cup. That isn't the same as winning a World Cup, but it shows Ireland are not that far away from being the best, but winning the WC is a special thing, because it is the test of winning when it really matters. And until Ireland do that, they can't be considered the best, that's it.
Ireland are doing consistency. 30 from 34 under Farrell. Recently beaten by the ABs playing their best game in two year and England playing their best game in 5 years. Both narrow wins. But at the end of the day RWC winners SA are No.1.
Brynn Hall total contradiction: “who ever wins the world cup is the best team in the world”. 3 seconds later “There were times in New Zealand when we were the best team consistantly but not able to get the world cup wins”.
Not the sharpest tool in the box 😂
He’s saying that even though they were the best when it came to consistency - it doesn’t really matter because they were a no show in the world cup.
@@gideonvanniekerk4252 No that's what you're saying.
Perhaps we should look at what defines being the best...Grooming your team and winning the Top Prize when it matters, or winning every game / most games attractively only to never have won a World Cup...certainly depends on how being the best is defined.
If only we had some sort of ranking system.....
Debate it all you want...
As a SA fan, we won the World Cup but the all blacks just have that X factor so I still say it’s them that are the team to beat
I’m Irish, and everyone I know in Ireland (that isn’t the stupid media) knows South Africa are the best. They won the World Cup. And their rugby history shows. It’s not rocket science.
I do feel Ireland can beat them though, and that’s important. We are up there. But until we win a World Cup, we can’t talk about being the best team in the world.
Rugby has fallen harder into the hyperbole trap than football - which is really hard to do! Everyone seems to be the world's best player, a team win a match and they are the best side ever, favorites for everything, they lose a match and they are immediately dismissed.
The majority of the content we get as rugby fans, globally, is created by the English media (not FANS, the English MEDIA), and those guys are the absolute worst when it comes to hyperbole, building players and sides up and tearing them down mercilessly for the sake of views and clicks. Marcus Smith, Freddie Steward, now Fin Smith.... - I feel for those lads, you put in a few decent performances for your club and the expectation the English media piles on them must be absolutely crushing, as must be the disappointment when they then reveal themselves to be "just good" (which is absolutely fine!) and not the "best in their position to have ever graced a rugby pitch".
Just this weekend, young English F1 driver Oliver Bearman had to step in for Ferrari driver Carlos Sainz who had to be operated on for appendicitis. Bearman put in a very good performance, coming 6th place after only having been able to do one practice session and the qualifying session - which is a VERY GOOD result, no doubt. One day later the BBC F1 podcast discussed which team Bearman will race for next year, as if it were a given that you will get an F1 seat after one good race, and even considered the possibility of him driving for Red Bull next year, the best team in F1 by some distance. Absolute hyperbole insanity after 1 good performance!
How about we start discouraging this type of behavior by the media by not engaging in this type of discourse? Ireland are a very good team, England are not the worst ever version of themselves, Finn Russel is an excellent fly-half, Jack Crowley and Marcus Smith are promising talents with much to learn - none of them have to be called "best" or "worst" or even "world class" to have value.
Rant over!
There is almost nothing between the top 4 teams. All games won on a knife edge. If each team played each other 10 times it would probably be 5 wins each. What a great situation for world rugby to find itself in.
Timestamp?
Best Teams win the big competitions
If you don't want to listen to all the punishing Six Nations chat, skip ahead to 19:20 😂
Also the Irish play more games against NH teams than SH teams, if they played NZ and Sa twice a year that % would be lower.
What Australian resurgence is being spoken about? What is this?
Maybe we shouldnt discuss best team unless you are both top of rankings for longest during a 4 year period and WC winner. Then there is no counter argument.
So guy on right says England only beat Ireland by 1 point and therefore the team isn't saved at 10:38, so down playing the victory a bit? So we can also say the same about South Africa's 1 point victories? Especially where the difference is a charge down (not a main part of the game) against France, after being dominated for 60 minutes by England and then beating a 14 man NZ team?
That charge down was planned my dear. Rassie and co studied the French team, including Ramos. They knew what the flaw was in his style oof kicking, and they capitalized on it.
This is still a debate. Let's get real. There is only 1
How is that even a debate who the best team in the world is. It's SOUTH AFRICA. You're not going to say Argentina isn't the best football nation in the world after winning the world cup because Morrocco was better are you? Springboks 95 came from behind EVERYONE ELSE to earn 4 cups. That's the pinnacle of Rugby. The Irish can keep beating us in tests to that RWC match, barely, but they and every other nation did not win when it matters. With no disrespect to everyone else, the BEST team in the WORLD in ANY sport, wins when it matters. Nobody remembers 2nd-3rd place. Hulle weet nie wat ons weet nie.
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There are 4 tests that the Springboks will play at home this year namely 2 tests against Ireland and 2 against New Zealand after that is done i will look foward to your response and to the Irish drunks response 😂😂😂
Ireland will win the six natoins and then tour Mzanzi with expectation just like in the RWC 23 and we all know how that went 😮😮😮 the Irish will probably wiñ a RWC some time in the far distant future i think the USA will win a RWC before the drunkards do 😂😂😂😂😢😢😢
Best team? How about change the WC from pure knockout to a format that allows 2 games against opponents in quarters and semi's and then three in final? Accumulative points to decide the winner in quarters and semi's and 2/3 or accumalative in final.
Oh wow! So you want the world cup to last how long exactly? Just win the thing IF you are good enough. Stop with the excuses.
This is not basketball, this is a hardcore contact sport
Nutha good show fullas'
Disagree with the comments about kiwis playing for aus teams. It's possible for players reach their potential when they're the big fish in the small pond and similarly to be an unknown
i'm confident that the AB's under robertson will reclaim the status as the world's best team, but for now the world champion boks are the best
Sa won the World Cup. They are the best team in the world. From an Irishman. Ireland aren’t in that conversation until they get to a final at least.
Why do we have a world cup tournament if it is not to establish who the best in the world is? Any other argument is really just copium.
8 years and counting for SA not being able to beat Ireland. And Ireland bagged another SN. Everyones gone quiet all of a sudden 👂
This show shits on the Breakdown.
Actual thoughtful discussion with context, nuance and composure, as opposed to a load of shit-talking and opinions.
Nz’s 2 worst losses in their 120 year history came against the current Boks side… enough said!
The Springboks fired a shot that reverberated around the rugby world at a mesmerized Twickenham on Friday as they inflicted the heaviest defeat on the All Blacks in New Zealand’s storied history, running away 35-7 victors (halftime 14-0) in front of 80 827 fans
The Springboks secured a 26-10 win over the All Blacks at Mbombela Stadium to underline their world champion credentials. 2022
Cards.
Foulplays@@DMD19
@@DMD19dicipline
Best team in the world wins when it counts
South Africa are number 1 (by a fair way) when it comes to World Cups, which are now the only measure. Ireland are number 1 if you measure it by excellence & consistency over a multi-year period, but sustained performance no longer matters, its who gets the job done in the only 3 matches that count in the 4 year cycle. Boks to threepeat in '27.
George martin needs recognising as a huge reason why eng improved
Why did your designer make Siya Kolisi look like an idiot on your cover frame? ❤🇿🇦
"whoever wins the world cup is the best team. NZ couldn't win the world cup but were the best team" Make it make sense lad haha
As an Irish fan....Boks are the best. They won the world cup and currently ranked no 1. This best in the world nonsense about ireland originated from a Welsh ex player Sam Warburthon. Then Scottish and English ex players/commentators jumped on board and said the same thing. Even the worst Irish pundit ( cough Heaslip) never ever claimed that.
of course it served the purpose of putting an even greater target on our backs while simulktaneuosly kicking off the SH the Boks and Kiwis.
As a stratagy in fairness it worked lol
Ireland are a good team, well coached with a great style of playing. Let's not spoil it by suggesting they are the best team in the world. The Boks won 4 out of 8 World Cups, The Boks and All Blacks have been dominating for years. I think its an insult to call anyone else the best if we just had a World Cup that just decided who the best team is. We can pick up this conversation when the Boks meets Ireland again. Keep in mind, All Blacks will be back, then it will be a battle between the Boks and Kiwi's, and the rest will follow.
The All blacks are the best team in the world not only because of their high winning percentage but because they have 4 WCs. However they’re on par with the Springboks and they recently won the WC so they’re the best team in the world!
Is winning two world cups back to back not also consistant?
The all blacks are not the best at the moment but are the best of all time buy some margin with a winning percentage of 77%, followed by the springboks at 63%