Debate world champion explains how to argue | Bo Seo
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- Опубліковано 2 жов 2024
- Bo Seo, Harvard’s former debate coach, explains a good argument.
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If our ancestors could see modern society, odds are they would be impressed with our technology and horrified with how we use it - particularly when it comes to debate.
Debate is crucial to a healthy society. After all, having productive debates is how people have learned, resolved conflicts, and generated new solutions for thousands of years. In Ancient Greece, it was even considered a kind of civic duty to be able to persuasively argue your point about the various issues of the day.
There are plenty of skilled rhetoricians around today. But as two-time world debate champion Bo Seo told Big Think, it has become rare to see thoughtful, productive, and smart debates broadcast on a large scale to the general public. We more often encounter short video clips or tweets featuring people whose main goal is to “win” the argument instead of trying to understand and refute the opposing side’s ideas in good faith.
A major part of the problem is that we have outsourced our debates to avatars we see in media: politicians, pundits, and celebrities.
So, can we develop better models of disagreement to help us become better debaters? Seo thinks the answer is yes, and that the process starts with polishing our skills offline.
Read the video transcript ► bigthink.com/s...
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About Bo Seo:
Bo Seo is a two-time world champion debater and a former coach of the Australian national debating team and the Harvard College Debating Union. One of the most recognized figures in the global debate community, he has won both the World Schools Debating Championship and the World Universities Debating Championship. Bo has written for The New York Times, The Atlantic, CNN, and many other publications. He has worked as a national reporter for the Australian Financial Review and has been a regular panelist on the prime time Australian debate program, The Drum. Bo graduated summa cum laude from Harvard University and received a master’s degree in public policy from Tsinghua University. He is currently a student at Harvard Law School.
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So unrelated but this dude has an unspeakable amount of swagger
yup
I blame the kicks
I was going to say that and well someone said it better and yeah he got some sick kicks.
Debatable
I challenge you to say that to my face,@@bonifacelemauve7469-- without an audience.
I don't think I've ever heard someone say "Information Diet." What a great way to describe how we take In information.
I think that term may have been inspired by “quora digest”
Food for thought eh
you are what you eat
SAME, guy has a routine !
That’s really good
Key Takeaway:
1. The other side of debate, is not your enemy. The disagreement is not to the person, just to the points that we have different views.
2. Debate is more than just disagreeing the opposite point of view, but to digest the complexity of an issue, or a question, from different perspectives.
3. Of course to win a debate, you need training to communicate ideas better and breakdown different view points.
In political debates, one thing I disgusted is how one diminished the other side with personal attack (idiot, stupid, racist, religious remarks), instead of talking about the real thing. Most of the time ones that started personal attack, are the ones that have no knowledge or least prepare in the topic that they are debating. But, many times, most audiences would label the ones who launched personal attack as charismatic.
Another points I try to implement when arguing is not thinking about an argument/a discussion as a "figh" between two oposing sides but just as a way to share different POVs that may contradict eachother, but hopefully have their place
Here's the problem with what you are saying. You are making an assumption that both sides (or individuals) taking part in a debate are rational actors. One cannot implement your advice when one is debating against an individual with personality disorders, such as a sociopath or a narcissist (i.e. an individual who will not behave according to established rules, norms, or etiquette). When one is debating against such an individual, one MUST strategically use the same or similar measures to overcome this opponent. Otherwise, the sociopath and/or narcissist will use charismatic behavior, personal attacks, falsehoods, and sophistry to win over the judges, audience, public, etc.
You can't without understanding and perceiving how they see reality, what's the point.
@@ItsNeverTooHot4Leather true. Yet, some sociopath either not participate in a 'real' debate, or they run away in the middle of argument.
there's always ppl who come into a debate with a bad intention.
We should start by remembering that challenging you ideas is not the same as challenging your identity. Nowadays, people tend to cling to their ideas as though giving them up presents a mortal threat
But that is how it is for most of us. Our idea of ourselves is our identity. And if you threaten the idea of me, you are basically threatening my life.
@@stevesmith4901 but your ideas of the world aren't ideas of yourself, and thus should be separated from your identity.
@@noambracha2495 But ideas other hold can threaten my identity, or even my existence.
For instance, as a German Jew myself I can say with absolute certainty that Holocaust denial and the ideology of Nazism and Wahabism both fundamentally threatening my right to life and liberty.
The same holds true for many marginalised groups in the world. Russian propaganda is an attack on Ukrainian identity, Chinese one enabling genocide in East Turkestan and Neoconfederate Lost Causers a threatening to African Americans.
We should rather remember that not every idea has to be a threat (that's rather paranoia then), but some definitely are.
commenting here for my own reference; wanna see what others will say.
@@noambracha2495 "Should be" is an entirely different discussion. But I meant to say something like the idea of man. If my identity is centered on some idea of what a man is, then any challenge to the idea of man, is a threat to my life.
In current day and age, we are mostly unable to accept that fact that someone has a different opinion.
I disagree
Different Opinions are VIOLENCE!
I agree, however some things are not based on opinion and not all opinions are equal.
I disagree
Jk haha
I'm ok with different opinions. Some things are facts and the inability to distinguish the difference is scary. Not believing in facts is not an opinion
I believe the whole idea of debate is to explore all sides of the issue, not to be right or wrong. Hard issues are complex and they are never black and white. To see all sides of the matter is to understand the matter, therefore you are able to make better decisions. I regularly debate. For me, it is a way to understand how the person thinks, what they value, and what might make them see it that way. My major rules are to assume they have good intentions, ask follow up questions instead of assuming what they mean, and come from a place of curiosity and respect, not trying to prove your point right.
Nop there is different between debate and discussion
@@lotfibelabbas8411 agreed, there are differences, but isn't debate just a discussion with opposing sides. You listen to their side and oppose it with your points. It isn't as formal as the debates you would have in school, but it is the same premise.
@@rachelgreensmith-annino5735 I completely disagree. And sorry if I sound harsh but the people who say unproductive debates happen when the other side is "trying" to prove their point automatically reeks of a negative emotional response due to the fact that they're unconsciously rejecting a looming defeat by the other side.
The biggest problem is ego. Ego that takes shape when you are losing an argument. Instead of taking steps to analyze your position, you automatically come to terms that the opposing party is enacting in bad faith.
To be blunt, this isn't a form of diplomacy where I have to cater to your feelings in order to manipulate your impressions and choices after the conversation. We are mature adults and hopefully don't need to be accommodated with kind words and gestures to know that we understand each other.
In a debate, there are right opinions and there are wrong opinions. It's called a fact of the matter. The more we say all opinions are correct, which you are doing by this "everyone wins" form of debating by not putting the necessary effort to effectively prove your idea/or challenge the others idea and forming it as an open ended discussion where no one feelings get hurt, the more radicalize and different our ideas become until we reach a peak where we are staring at each other from different ends of the mountain.
Don't you realize that your idea of how debates or conversations should go have been taught to all of us at a very young age. It's the main factor involved in why we have a circus of a public discourse in the west. That idea isn't new and has been responsible for the chaos and polarization of the political sphere.
To be even more blunt, we need to go back when you can say your opinion is stupid. Not on Twitter but in schools.
@@XX89948 I disagree. How is calling someone's opinion stupid productive? It doesn't further your argument and causes the other person to become defensive. The topics being debated are not cut and dry and you are not going to be right about everything. But the fact of the matter is, you cannot change everyone's mind. Some people you can debate until you are blue in the face and not get anywhere. Even with cold hard facts, they will not see it any other way. Sometimes you have to agree to disagree and not disrespect someone by calling them names to make them feel small. To me, that is a clear sign you have lost the argument. You have nothing else to back up your side so you resort to childish insults.
My roommate and I have very different opinions of the issues of the world. Yet, even when we argue, we still hear each other out and it is never unproductive, even if we disagree in the end.
The problems we have are from too many people shouting their opinions and no one is able to be heard. You can't fix issues if you don't understand them. You just end up creating more problems and resentment.
@@lotfibelabbas8411 Which one ?
Great view.
I remember when I was young debates were structured in a way that whatever side of the proposition you would take the opposite view and argue it.
I learned that way to see different views and be able to formulate them in my mind.
It's so hard to have a conversation with people these days.
A good talker, is a good listener. As far as presidents, I think they need to speak less and listen more to the people and not the corporations that fund them.
A politician can't speak less and listen more,
Because people (and by that, I mean you and me) don't follow such a politician,
And a politician listened by no one isn't one
There's plenty of people smart enough to act the way you would want a politician to act, if none of them becamed important politician, it's because this strategy isn't able to make you an important politician
Or rather, those smart people were smart enough to understand the game they were in, and that if they wanted the power needed to do what they belived was good, they had to play by the rules
"People generally quarrel because they don't know how to argue." -G. K. Chesterton
People don't give other debaters enough time to make their point. I see some people pay more attention to presenting their ideas and don't pay much attention to what other participants want to say.
For academic debate, three other things are required. 1. An agreed-upon resolution. This is a positive statement. One person affirms or agrees with it. One disagrees or negates it. Also, the words or terms of the resolution should be defined. Sometimes, the main arguments lie in the definitions alone. 2. Arguments to affirm or negate the resolution should be clearly stated with supportive evidence. 3. The most important element is clash and rebuttal. Each side must listen and even take notes on what the other side is saying. Each argument should be attacked by the opposition and then defended by the source.
If you want to win a public debate, bring out some paper and a pencil. Write down what the other person is saying. If you are unclear, read it back to make sure that is correct. That alone should make them run away. If not, begin by presenting your arguments, then attack the other side by saying 'you said...however....'. Finally, research and apply the rules of argumentative fallacy. Good stuff.
I know so many people who are only interested in debate if it is in front of an audience. For them, debate is always a gladiatorial performance.
Yup, and they're always equiped with a wide range of skills like putting words in the other person's mouth and/or distorting all they're saying. Going for personal attacks or just ignoring facts or anything that might prove them wrong and just go in circles around their own idea while doing the first 2 things I mentioned.
@@oblivion9202 I know! And it really sucks if you have such people in your family.
Interesting commentary, but the title is wrong. He's talking about the importance of debate, not how to do it
Thanks.
As usual with big think
2:18 is why you came here.
very good. wish we could implement this. problem is, the way people raise their children, and our short attention spans are not conducive to free thought and the ability to receive and give constructive criticism.
It should also be made sure that the debate does not turn into a personal attack on both parties. The debate should stay on the topic and not come down to just berating the other.
Ergo ad hominem.
I attended Bo's classes for a while in Australia, and I must say he is just as well-spoken and intelligent here than ever.
You are right, Mr Seo. The current level of debates between politicians, or as we see in the cable news, should not become the new benchmark for debating. Polite, informed, respectful and convincing debates are a work of art. A bit rare these days.
Yes. Requires a one-hour search on the internet's most intelligent sites to find one. Every outlet seems to capitulate to "click" bait and zero info.
Lukashenka or Putin don't even show up on any debates before elections but they still manage to win every time.
Debate should be edited for truth, both sides of politics seem to forget what is real and what isn't.
This is an amazing video and I'm glad that we're talking about this. If I could offer two things that I think would help they would be these:
1. Bring back rhetoric and debate in school curricula . Yes, there are schools that have mock trial clubs (which are a lot of fun), but I mean incorporate rhetoric and debate into English classes and/or History classes it would both help and give students a reason to see how these classes can be practically useful.
2. There's a saying: "don't argue politics or religion at the dinner table" and honestly, I don't agree with that. I think that it ties in very well with what the video is saying and that discussing big topics in a sane, informed, and reasonable way begins with a small setting with someone you know and trust. Granted, not all parents are trustworthy and it doesn't work with everyone, but it helps.
Anyway, that's my two cents.
Much like learning how to swim or ride a bike at a young age can help us gain confidence in other aspects of our lives, so can a good debate class. Having an environment that makes it normal to voice your opinion while standing up and facing a small crowd is incredibly conducive to molding wonderful young communicators. And that leads into your next idea quite well because, especially nowadays, we don't have the same level of engagement at the dinner table like we once used to. Having them get some from school and some from home adds to a young person's balance and is overall extremely beneficial to the world as a whole. Great points.
Your two cents is very informative and I agree with it
Agreed
I am fairly sure that speech and debate is still growing as an activity and in terms of rhetoric, there are quite a few events that match what you think is essential such as Student Congressional Debate, Extemporaneous Speaking, or World Schools Debate (Bo Seo mainly did British Parliamentary Debate, but we barely have BP in the US). Model United Nations is also a great option, but sometimes people just go to rizz up some girls.
Unfortunately, there are two issues
First, DEBATE at least on a competitive level will always have a race to the bottom in terms of rhetoric if we value information and logic over all else. Policy debate, is logically pristine and philosophically deep, but there is a singular issue: they talk like fucking chihuahuas. Speed reading or spreading has spread all over policy debate unless you run an identity K(not identity politics, but it is about how one's identity in the debate space is inherently hurt and how one can fix that through performativity and stuff). Speed reading will never go away because it is almost impossible to run a theory shell(an argument about debate norms) since there is no reasonable brink line, would it be 200 wpm, 150 wpm, the other team can always make a counterinterpretation that is reasonable and works with their talking speed. Also debaters are forced to read straight off of "cards" or direct quotes from books and news resources, because you will always have a stronger evidence standard. Unfortunately, these two factors sound absolutely awful to the common person when they are 100% legal and competitively ideal.
Second, Speech and debate is inherently exclusionary in two different ways: through classism and ableism. To understand the philosophy or rhetoric, you need money, money to get a coach, money to go to a camp, money to gain resources. Then there is ableism or somewhat racism since standardizing rhetoric programs in schools can be classified as a form of reeducation especially towards certain cultural dialects such as AAVE, setting standards for speaking can have immense consequences on neurodivergent people too.
If we have to form a better argument, we need to think. If we need to think, we need time. If we need time, we can't have social media in the form like instagram and tiktok.
@jonas Sure but you can't have them done without thinking and time though
We aren't seeing debates any more. We're seeing arguments. We've lost so much.
Why set up the white background but constantly use wide shots of the entire room. I can't even pay attention 🤣
It's a stylistic choice that's supposed to communicate transparency. Like saying: I have a backdrop but i don't mind you seeing the other parts of the room because I've nothing to hide....
If you can't pay attention because of this little detail I don't think it's their fault 😅
Beautiful explanation. This makes me appreciate things like discussing tough or difficult topics to help stimulate and jug people's brains.
"[...] explains how to argue". No he doesn't. He talks about the contexts and significance of debate.
We have all become so insecure with ourselves that we rush to shut down others' opinions without even taking time to think about "opposing" points. And politics and media have become such spectacles that audiences now live for the drama/ entertainment, rather than consider the view points deeply. Great points made.
Most opinions are stupid
If you don't have training or experience you should keep your mouth shut
The Earth is a sphere, fifteen is bigger than five, and the US is the greatest terrorist organization in world history
Yes. You really need to engage with the flat earthers and h0l0c@ust deniers. Consider their "facts" and really engage with their idiocy. That's what being civilised means
After watching this, I am inspired to take my debating skills beyond the paradigm of my personal beliefs and see if I can defend a premise with which I disagree.
More videos with Bo Seo -
How dirty debaters win against better opponents: ua-cam.com/video/tZw0-ap7buo/v-deo.html
Why you should live an argumentative life: ua-cam.com/video/Tk01uthNqzY/v-deo.html
I find that being able to determine if your opponent cares about the accuracy of information is important. From this you can decide whether you will actually have a good debate/ conversation, or if your job is simply to promote the accurate information and make the inaccurate information look as pathetic as possible.
Perhaps the most important thing to learn is when NOT to argue with someone and NOT have a debate, some people are just ill and persuasive argument will not affect them.
Yes, I as wondering if he was going to touch on disingenuous arguments. Otherwise everything else he said was spot on.
Sad that the "when to not argue" crowd feels like 90% of the population these days
Great video. Entirely the wrong title.
People dont realise that it is not necessary that there can be only one truth. Truth is relative, it can be different from different perspectives. One od the beautiful teachings from jainism.
It really just needs to be a cooperative process done in good faith for the purpose of arriving at the truth and the most beneficial decisions for all, regardless of previously held views and disagreements.
You can tell how well articulated he is, by the way he chooses his words carefully. I want to learn how to speak like that.😄
Well spoken guy
I usually start with: "I know you are, so what am I?" Then fall on the floor and scream like a 2 year old.
This video's 'how to argue" clickbait title is a complete mismatch to it's actual content (no disrespect to Bo Seo).
"The reason facts don't change people's minds is that most people use their opinions to form facts instead of using facts to form their opinions"
Nicely said.
In my experience debating a large variety of people is useful for learning new things about your own arguments so you can revise and expand them to perfection. If I had only stuck to scrutinizing them myself I wouldn't know anywhere near what I do now.
and what do you know now, just wondering
Yes, that is true, and there are books that can help, learning logical fallacies and reading about that subject. It is a very old and useful subject.
Debating is like improvisation on a jazz tune. Ya gotta know alot of difficult things and be able to instantly use them correctly. And like jazz, it takes practice.
That will happen with increasing frequency the more you are wrong and with decreasing frequency the more you have it right. Reality has an impersonal bias, it doesn't care what your opinion is. The phenomenon you experience when debating is related to the phenomenon of synchronization between two pendulums swinging with different timing which are touching the same table. They will spontaneously synchronize. The table is reality.
Absolute true, thanks so much. 💫💥💫
One of the most important videos to come from this channel. Our entire human existence could benefit from understanding these concepts better.
What a brilliant invitation for our culture to return to personal responsibility in thinking for our selves, and doing the work of confronting various ideas and POVs. Debate's historical goal was for the growth of all present. Today, it's become to make the opposing side look stupid. This is a loss for all. Rather than talking after a debate about "who won", wouldn't it be beneficial to discuss what we learned as a people from the dialogue?
Absolutely outstanding synthesis and presentation. Thoughtful, well-organized, and implementable framework and suggestions. A clear process to begin restoring respectful debate into society.
One thing that is a serious problem in today's political climate is an overarching sense that the political "sides" are enemies. The reason things actually used to get done was because politicians *were* colleagues, they did know each other outside of the halls of congress, they did know each other on a personal basis. And while many had radically different beliefs in what should or shouldn't be done, they knew that at the end of the day that they would find a compromise that both sides could live with.
Our society has polarized so much in the passed few decades, and I do point the finger mostly at the 24 hour news cycle, where practically everything is "breaking news", "this just in", and then we threw social media into the mix, where sounding boards got even more encompassing. People see the news as something they're meant to be keeping an eye on all day like it's actually going to change their lives between when they got up and dinner time. Government is slow, it's boring, it's meant to be. They only reason the news has gotten more interesting is because the stations need ratings for their sponsors. Passing legislation is meant to take time, because it's meant to be something that the majority can live with, which with the need for society's need for instant gratification, takes too long.
And when it comes to political debates, personal jabs have no place. These people are meant to be professional and represent the best that a political side can present. If the "best" is the one who can burn the other the most during a debate, you've lost perspective on what government is mean to be about. A persons ability to rise above the nonsense personal issues, and speak coherently and informatively about their position and how they can make things better for the majority is what actually matters.
The man who worked his way up from being in a lower-middle class, blue collar family should resonate much more with general society than a guy born with a silver spoon in his mouth, who's always had everything handed to him.
You have to take into account that we live in a democracy. Where the majority of the population choose who they want to elect as leaders. That by itself, already breeds toxicity in politicians and corruption.
People go with what they *feel* is a better candidate than who *actually* is. The majority of the population aren't deep into what the candidate wants to accomplish or what the office position entails. As long as they see them as friendly, relatable, and non radical, they will elect them. It also causes genuine public servants to focus more on being likeable than being the most qualified for the position.
After leaving university, I forgot the truly intense pleasure of debating. Glad I watched this. I am......reinvigorated. And cannot wait to become the Clayton Frazier (the provoker in Peyton Place) of my workplace. 🔥🔥🔥
This content is always so well-structured!
The title of this video is misleading. This is not about how to argue. It is more about the circumstances of the debate.
This shows how much our so-called political debates are not debates at all, or at least not enough to be called debates.
When I was in high school I had a friend who told me that on the debate team they were each given a topic. For the first half of the debate they had to argue one side while their opponent argued the other side. At the halfway point the had to reverse sides for the remainder of the debate. Would it be helpful if, before we decide on a position, we sat on the fence and examined both sides? Would it help us both better understand out opponent’s position and better defend our own position?
1. Training 2. Format 3. Relationship outside of the debate
Four minutes in, and still NOTHING at all about 'how to argue'. What a waste of my time.
The only thing that concerns me when it comes to any debate is that the truth is defended. Who wins the debate is arbitrary.
Above all the good points he made he does rock some cool ass shoes
I've thought for a while now that the way we treat each other online is one of the biggest and most overlooked problems in society today. I love that this video speaks to that problem; it did not teach me rhetorical skills to 'win' the argument, as one might assume, but something more profound, how to increase the quality of the discussion for both parties to ultimately increase the likelihood of being more in harmony and closer to the truth. If we communicated with genuine empathy and curiosity, we could see a lot of other problems fall like dominoes.
Now imagine me catching a clip of Westminster jeering or a Trump 'lOsEr' tweet jfc is this how we govern ourselves lol no wonder the species is fucked
There is no debating climate change but here we are day to day living with delusional Americans.
Despite what’s often exclaimed, you don’t actually have a right to any opinion, rather, you’re only entitled to a position you can defend. We also pretend all positions are valid and have merit, so as to be “fair” and impartial. An example: Certain animal based news corps will give equal time to both a flat earther position and a physicist astronaut who has lived in space…2 positions, same amount of time. This gives the impression that it’s “just two opposing perspectives. Who really knows the answer, after all!?”
Well said!
That can be said about some scientific (empiric, testable, repeatable...) topics, but on social, political and philosophical motions we need to start the debate with both sides on the same level of credibility.
If equal time creates a problem for the viewer, then the viewer is using airtime as a substitute for examining the evidence produced by the debaters,* at which point why even bother with having people present their case at all?
*Either that, or a hypothetical plant-based network (i.e. one that does not offer equal time) is attempting to influence/count on them to do this.
I shall not commit the fashionable stupidity of regarding everything I cannot explain as a fraud.
Well said... And very good stance, many are doing that today, that "fashionable stupidity" as you called such behavior.
title isn't accurate at all
boy this was disappointing
I'm willing to debate you on this
Guys lets debate about something
the most important thing in a debate is the ability to listen...
🤔 Indeed. We have two ears. But only one mouth.
In today’s world the key to debate is knowing when it’s not worth your time and walking away. Arguing with fools is an awful use of time.
The best way to figure out who's a fool or not is to trigger them with words or statements and see if they see you as a fool.
If they are wise enough to understand that there's more that meets the eye, then they will engage in talking with you in a productive conversation.
If they use that word or statement as a basis of why you are a fool not worth talking too, then you saved yourself from a headache.
@@XX89948 setting out to purposely trigger people is just being a dick
You know Arno Michaelis ?
He is a former White Supremacist, extremist to the core
He's now a anti-racist activist
He created an association specialized in deradicalizing extremists
I've heard him explain that he personnaly made dizains of person deradicalizing
That's something that I find incredible, to the point it's even hard to take one's word for it, but I know I can't doubt what he's saying
That means one thing, if one can cause a neo-Nazi to change his mind, then it's possible to change every one's mind
You can't say that it's impossible to change the opinion of this or this guys you met at the bar, knowing that it's possible to change an extremist's mind
But there's one thing
If you expect someone to change his mind just because you proved him wrong
Then you are the fool
Because it doesn't work, you saw countless time it didn't, it would probably not work even on you, and even if I hate it, I know I would struggle to change my own mind this way, even being wrong
That's not the way Arno Michaelis does either
To make someone change his belief, you got to understand why he belives what he does
You got to understand how it's possible for a human mind to spit bullshit while feeling right, and to realize that, as all human, you are doing the same all day long
You got to understand what trigger such bullshit, how to avoid them
You got to understand how to make someone lower one's shield in a political discussion, how to make one listen to you
You got to understand how make one focus on the question "is this argument something I can agree with" rather than "How to counter this argument" during your conversation
That's by no way easy, that's extremely hard
But you can't just look to a hard issue, and throw it away saying "it's impossible" while you've tried only one strategy
You don't have to go through all this trouble, if you don't want to spend the time, then yes, the best strategy is walking away
Because you are totally right, a bad debate with "a fool" is a waste of time
Even worst, it's counterproductive, for you and for him
But there's something I totally disagree with
There is no fool in this world
Or if there is, that would mean we are all one, cause we all thing the same way, making the same mistakes over and over
@@KeepItSimpleSailor It's more to test the level of maturity in someone.
If being a dick means saving time by not arguing with someone who gets triggered by words and statements at the beginning prologue then so be it. There are billions of others that are more worth the effort.
The issue with this is that it's likely that you'd avoid a debate with yourself with this attitude. I personally begin the debate with as much good-will and understanding as possible, and if they don't return that attitude then I can be pretty confident that the debate will go off the rails and I simply leave. I would prefer not to make myself the insufferable human, just to weed out the other 'potential' insufferables.
In my class there is a "smartass" he always try to argue to make his point. i know him only for 6 months and i started to witness 4 months ago or so that every time he argues he just say something that is completly wrong and doesn´t make any sense, he says something about the law or about school and i actualy know the truth but he tries to confince me that he is right until i have to google to prove him wrong. Many people with whom he spoke couldn´t argue against him because they had no clue about what he is talking and he convinced them that he was right without even telling the truth or speaking facts. He seems to be "smart" because no one besides me and the teachers could tell him that he is wrong and talks bullshit, so he can actually manipulate other people by tricking them into believing him and they think that he is smart which he isn´t
Excellent points. Today's debates are not debates, but a circus event to entertain an audience, and generate provocative headlines on the next day's news commercial websites.
- Having a relationship with the person we are disagreeing with is more important than disagreement itself.
- Debates are only as good as the information, the knowledge, and the skills that debaters bring to it.
him looking like vecna
me: ..........looking instead of listening*
"Information Diet" will be a new word in my dictionary. I can't believe how useful this idea is for explaining the current state of our society.
He didn't explain shit!
I mean he must be a master debater, since he succesfully dodged the question while talking for 5 minutes
Actually all he did was give answers on how to argue. Or were you looking for tips on how to win a debate? Cause that's not the point of a debate
@@eljuanman999 I think you confuse debating and chatting. The point of a debate, in a very naive sense is that we come to some consensus, in which case techniques that make me more articulate and able to convince others are in fact what I would want to see in a video like this.
In a more realistic sense, a debate between presidents, youtubers, celebrities etc. is exactly what you say is not a debate. You try to convince an audience, if you manage to do that, you win the debate. Again something that should be in this video.
3:29 Aint that right! Amen!
idk but baiting the opponent into conceding seems a lot easier
The real reason he won the debating WC is those shoes
what shoes is he wearing?
Thanks so much!
I recognize the relevance of cultural reeducation in terms of Debate, and it all starts in Families and Schools.
¿However, how can there be Debate, when Intolerance has become virulent?, ¿How can there be Debate, when one's 'interlocutor' doesn't want to Debate actually, but he/she wants the other's group extinct, because he/she believes, or pretends to believe, the other is the cause of all the problems of the world, or just wants the other one out the hell of him/her way?
In my humble opinion, there is, on one hand, certainly a relevant work to be done about Re-Educating society for Debate; on another hand, there is a _much more fundamental work_ that brings back this paradox: “in order to maintain a tolerant society, the society must be intolerant of intolerance.”. Tolerance is the first priority for a good Debate.
¿Can (re-)learning Debate teach some (real) Tolerance to Intolerant people? This should be the real problematic. I believe it plays a role, maybe not the most important one, but still relevant.
Wthout the presence of the audiences, sometimes people are getting aggresive when the argument is going nowhere..
The lessons of the James farmer and Malcolm X debate go beyond just enlightening discourse. Effective Negotiation is exactly the same as the goal that Mr. Seo describes. Where the goal is not to force the other to compromise but for each to articulate what a win is for themselves and understand what is a win for the other. Thereby, by understanding each other, reaching an outcome superior to just using your leverage to force the other to compromise.
Yes, the ancient era had great qualities in this respect at least 😂
"Why debate when you can censor your opponent?"
This is why in Montessori schools, we teach young children to articulate their needs and have some room to meet that need independently. A 3-year-old telling me “I’m feeling angry. I’m going to go look at the fish tank and take some deep breaths,” is incredibly equipped to grow into the kind of adult who thinks for themselves and manages their emotions in a healthy way. We can all grow in this skill because it’s necessary to have a healthy, respectful debate/disagreement with another person.
Why the clown shoes? You got a keyblade?
Everyone should take an entire day, get as intoxicated as you like with whatever you like and think about the idea of everyone being you with different circumstances. That’s it
Dissociation is a great tool for introducing more flexibility into one's views.
People get offended by anything these days. It only demonstrates the weakness of will and character. Sadly, people are not being taught these virtues.
Just follow the rules of Democrats to "win" debates -
Tell lies. Tell lies. Tell lies.
What was the point of your comment, why do you type this?
1- don't. debating is a counterintuitive sport of intellectual brutality. it simply should not exist. we are all fellow human beings, and our discussions should reflect that.
So people can’t disagree? Or even discuss their point of view. this is a non sensical point
People should not express and discuss about their beliefs? How are we gonna understand each other?
Fight On Vivek✌️🇺🇲🕊️
If we can't disagree without aiming to hurt or silence the holder of an inferior/ill formed view or opinion we have no argument. Every argument must aim to bring out the brilliance of both participants. The best must compete, never attend or promote cheap entertaining repartee. If you claim the other is wrong, first you need to establish your self exemplary standards, if you have no exemplary standards to defend then you will be defending damaging standards
People want to engage in hollow rubbish because it was not a debate in the first place, it was all about self appointed pride and indecent victory. They want unilateral dominance, there was or will be no accommodation or correction.
I was witnesses to quite a few sub-standard talks/debates, people defending poor values were cheered, it only shows the debate was organized to self entertain than to expand accountability and honor.
About the debate format...during the last US presidential election cycle, I couldn't even get through the VP debate between Mike Pence and Kamala Harris, since the moderator kept calling time on both of them when they clearly weren't finished. Now, I get wanting to call time on someone who is using way more than his allotted time because it's not fair to the other person, but when neither side can seem to finish their thoughts in the allotted time, then IMO the time limit needs to be longer, because it's not serving anyone. I think the two sides should learn from that mistake and request longer time limits next time if they have candidates who may actually want to use it.
Many times, when debating with american friends, I have been given the ultimate shut down : „let‘s agree to disagree“… Pretty sad that people take argumentative talks personally and cannot just enjoy the mind gymnastic and mutual learning that comes from a good conversation. We have made it a sort of sport or show where there can only be one winner and one loser : how childish and what a very capitalistic way of seeing the world…
I'd add being a spectator to a good debate is perhaps the quickest way to gain wisdom; having different viewpoints poked and prodded where the various merits and flaws are made clear (there are no solutions, just trade-offs).
"Agree to disagree" tends to be shorthand for "I haven't really thought out my position".
Does anyone else feel like proper debate is an endangered art due to the direction the world is going. If you are not automatically on board with someone's beliefs or idealogies, they just dismiss you.
I tend to experience one specific difficulty when I enter a debate/discussion with someone. I have trouble with being quick-witted and articulate in the moment. I feel that I am well-informed, have a grasp on logic, and am reasonable and respectful in my discourse. I even think my body language/speech cadence is pretty good. But when I speak, it's like my brain slows down and I can't think. I miss key details that could be impactful simply due to this kind of thing occurring. It especially gets worse if I am bombarded with misinformation or if I feel that the opposing party is behaving in a disrespectful manner. Any tips for improving this? TIA 🙏
Too many people utilize emotions when debating which is not a good mix. You need to have a premise that backs a conclusion. Instead, everyone has conclusions.
No, no, no, no, no no. No.
If you are not familiar, search right now on UA-cam for “Monty Python argument”. They cover this exact topic with far more precision.
How can there be a debate champion? Since when debates (seeking truth) is a competition???
4:20 (first of all, nice) I can't stress enough how crucial it is to detach yourself and your ego from the discussion.
For thise struggling with it, *your ideas are not your identity; you can change them and still be equally respected. A better phrasing would be: I don't value you for the beliefs you hold but for the human being you are.*
I honestly don't see your beliefs as you. Changing, or losing a belief you have, isn't you losing part of your ego. In fact, those exact ideas that plant one's identity in them (mostly belief systems as gradually groups form themselves around those beliefs, so the single belief becomes a 10 beliefs and an entire belief system by themselves.) are what we call identity politics. That's the disturbing part of it; they make you adopt them, not in the school of thought way, but as a part of your identity, hence changing them means practically becoming someone else, hence losing yourself or part of it.
I know most of you reading this are thinking of religion at the back of your minds, but politics equally satisfy this criterion of grounding one's identity in those beliefs about their parties.
You know where else you do that too? Debates, obviously! Everyone does it. Ask any debater in any platform, can you entertain the possibility your opponent being right and you being wrong. You're pretty much asking them to put their ego aside and think, *SERIOUSLY* think how their opponent might be right and them being wrong. And I include everyone in this bag. Atheists, people arguing for global earth (not that I don't believe but they, justblike everyone like I'm not picking up on them, too have a dog in the fight) evolution, anti-conpiracies from 9/11 to Watergate.
As long as you have your ego on the table, you are very unlikely to examine the evidence (regardless) seriously. Most likely than not, you'll dismiss the other side given how "dumb and ignorant" they are. That's it! Your ego speaking, and not your mind addressing the supposed evidence that until you examine it, can call it supposed (as in false or shaky) before you do examine it seriously.
Basic logic - if I make a statement and you, in the context of our debate, are unable to prove me wrong, that does not prove me right. Ergo debate on its own is incapable of determining if something is likely to be true or not. Ergo debate itself has a limited value.
Debates shouldn’t be just about statements though. They should be about a series of statements to form arguments, and we can explore the relationship between statements to effectively show the argument invalid or uncogent. It’s correct that even this would not prove someone wrong and everyone agreeing an argument is cogent wouldn’t make it so, but the value is in evaluating arguments, not just a statement. So I do ultimately agree that debate does have a limit in its utility, but we are not utilizing debate to its true capacities as a whole imo.
Often the most complex discussions have the most simplistic answers. 💫💥💫
@Patrick Quine That turns into a logical fallacy. Who decides which is right or which is wrong? Clearly I think your argument is wrong, so i believe that someone out there can disprove your idea eventually.
But what if it's right? And there's no person to disprove the idea.
If I cannot prove your wrong, then you are right until someone else does. Just like scientific theory is correct until it is proven wrong by someone.
If Mr canti can tie a tie y can't I Tie a tie like Mr canti can tie a tie
My man you almost gave me a stroke
A lot of people commented about how in this day and age, people take opinions way too seriously and can't accept someone having different opinions than them.
Here's the problem right, it has always been like this, people do not accept an idea or a view that is fundamentally different than how they view the world. It is always them who is right and that is it.
Most of the folks right now who are in the wave of "taking opinions seriously" and "not being able to accept different opinions" are folks who were NOT included in the older generation's idea and norms of what is "supposed to be"
They are majorly a lot of minorities or people whose identities, voices, and existence has been ignored or stamped down by the majority of society and what was considered "acceptable".
The thought of opinions just being ideas and an abstract concept that shouldn't affect anyone is inherently false. As what someone thinks will affect what they say and what they say will affect their surroundings, the people around them, and the world.
Opinions can't be harmless when we're talking about certain topics, yes it could be when we're talking about things such as favorite shows, but even things such as the film industry can be debated because there are writers and animators being overworked and underpaid, etc..
It is not just the older generation's fault nor it is the current generation's instead just the simple fact that most of humanity can never see something past black and white, and they can not understand how much their existence and their actions impacts everything.
I'm spellbound by this. I read a book with similar content, and I was completely spellbound. "The Hidden Empire: Inside the Private Worlds of Elite CEOs" by Adam Skylight
We've been indoctrinated with the idea that our opinions are who we are. If you disagree with me, you are actually attacking me personally.
Also, the purpose of debate in social media doesn't seem to be the sharing of ideas, learning or persuading, but it's all about beating down of the person with an opinion you do not share. And it must be done for the approbation of total strangers online that you will never meet in person.
Great Video!
Glad you enjoyed it!
While at some level in an imaginary world I agree with this sentiment, I would challenge you that encouraging this way of thinking and approach to debate will have zero impact on the world. While corporate powers control the narratives they won through a savage, anything goes information war, no improved sophistication of debate and open mindedness and collaboration by citizens will have an effect on the trajectory we are taking. The problem isn’t our skill at debate.
Do you really think you can engage the agents of the powers that have taken us to here in reasonable conversation. People are going to look up from TikTok and the other virtual worlds under totalitarian information control and see you trying to have a reasonable debate with someone just bellowing over you about the dangers of immigrants and evil red socialism, and how if people listen to you they risk weakening themselves to imaginary enemies outside.
I’m sorry my friend, but honestly you are not thinking in the context of reality. I know you will not read this or respond. But if you look at how the information war is fought today do you really think it can be resisted through the means you propose? I mean seriously?
I don’t mean disrespect but I guess you are maybe living in some elite western bubble where you think reason from citizens can impact corporate agendas. I would challenge you to go and tell the debt trapped modern day slaves working in open pit mines in the global south, their nation’s wealth stolen and funnelled into the imperialist western economies, about how if they just learn to debate better they can solve their problems
Could you explain how Donald Trump won the recent debate? I haven't heard anything yet from debate coaches and referees, or whatever they're called.
You know that all these comments are anonymous, so it means it might be the WORST space (social media) to have the debates if we assume that face-to-face to be the best one. So writing any comments here doesn't matter if you want to have the productive debate)
The better your understanding about the world the better you can argue. A conversation without any substance and grounding to reality is just speculations.
I think every debate needs 2 huge white boards and markers. I've been in too many University lecture halls, city council presentations, does God exist debates, to not keep track of the what's being discussed.