Season 3 Episode 3 of In the Gym. Randy Roach, author of Muscle Smoke and Mirrors volume 1,2 and 3 sits down and discusses the real story of the Colorado Experiment.
Arthur Jones and my Dad were partners in business ventures back when Arthur was doing a TV Show in New Orleans called "WILD CARGO" in the early 60's. They went together to Africa and South America to film in the Savannas and jungles for the show and even made a movie together. This was in the late '50's and early 60's. My brother Earl and I went with Arthur and my Dad up to Calgary, Alberta Canada to look for airplane parts for Arthur's B-25 bomber which he owned and used for hauling animals around.( BTW- Arthur was a WWII B-25 pilot under Jimmy Doolittle's raiders which bombed Japan). Anyway, it was at a restaurant in Calgary that Arthur drew his NAUTILUS machine concept on a CLOTH table napkin and explained how this would revolutionalize bodybuilding. Later, he got with Bill Pearl to show him his concept which Pearl was skeptical about. The rest is history, Arthur became a billionaire through NAUTILUS and had his home base in Ocala, Florida at "JUMBOLAYA" which was an estate with a 7,500' long private airport. John Travolta now owns it and has his airplanes based there. Arthur Jones was a one-of-a-kind character, both genius and crazy man at the same time.
Jumbo Lair was the name of Arthur’s estate. After Arthur lost it in a divorce to his ex-wife Terry she divided lots that incorporated access to the runway of which John Travolta purchased one. She later rented out the mansion for events and eventually sold the property. Perhaps Travolta did end up buying up the property but I don’t know.
@bigbillbigbill8472 Teri may have changed it after she got it. Arthur had an elephant named "JUMBO" and liked New Orleans "Jambalaya" which was cleverly added together resulting in "JUMBOLAYA". That was what he told my Brother Earl who visited him in Ocala before Arthur's death.
There seems to be pretty convincing anecdotal evidence that the positive portion of the repetition or lift (concentric) develops strength, while the negative (eccentric) portion of the rep causes the micro-tears that build new fibers, causing the growth. This can be observed in different strength sports. Olympic lifting, for example, tends to display concentric or positive only lifts. The athletes are typically very strong but not overly muscular for their weight class. Powerlifters see more muscular development because they incorporate more negative or eccentric motion in their lifts, the bench press and squat specifically, but the deadlift does contain some eccentric too. Bodybuilders seem to focus heavily on the eccentric, with slower negatives and faster concentric repetitions. They typically have the most muscular breakdown and growth as a result, but are not nearly as explosive in the concentric portion of the lifts.
I compleatly agree with your ecentric vs concentric movment effects on the muscle micro-tearing. The main difference between Power Training vs Strength Training is, that strength refers to the ability to overcome resistance, while power refers to the ability to overcome resistance in the shortest period of time. Max lifts 1-2 reps longer rest between sets = Myofibrilgenisis or, more pullys in the system = Weightlifter with higher percentage of fast twitch fibers. Max Reps 10-20 shorter rest between sets = Sarcoplasmic Hypertropy or, more batteries in the system = Bodybuilder with higher percentage of slow twitch fibers. Studies using college Students, college Athletes and, Bodybuilders mesuring strength and size, then they stoped all athletic training for a period of 2 weeks. College students remained the same, college athletes had some sligh change in both and, the bodybuilders lost the most size and strength.
Competitive lifters avoid gaining muscular weight to stay in their division. By the time they reach elite level, improved performances are from refined skill. If they did gain muscular weight, they'd be even stronger, but possibly less successful vs heavier opponents.//Many bodybuilders are incredibly strong, but most of them don't rehearse the skills required to lift the most possible weight.
I agree! We had one at my gym back in 1979 and it was a really great piece of equipment that should still be in gym's today. Every so often you see one but not frequently.
This is definitely possible with High Intensity Training. I wish I had taken pictures and measurements, but I did something similar on my own in my early 20s. I don't have Casey's genetics, but still have very good genes for gaining muscle. I weighed around 205 lbs, of mostly muscle, a little fat around my waist. I went into Marine Corps boot camp for 3 months and came out weighing around 175 lbs. I had lost muscle and fat. I had 10 days off between boot camp and School of Infantry. I trained really hard using a routine I got from Mike Mentzer on a phone call with him. I continued this routine during the first few weeks of SOI. We had a dress uniform inspection after I had been there for about a month. My uniform that fit nicely in boot camp, did not fit at all. I couldn't get my pants over my massive thighs. I could button only the waist of my jacket, but barely fit my arms and shoulders into it. I gained very little fat, but gained back all the muscle I had lost in boot camp and then some. My Platoon Sgt who did our uniform inspection couldn't believe I grew that much muscle that fast. I'm still surprised they didn't test me for roids, which I've never used. So, this kind of gain is possible, but not easy or common. I also got my greatest results training mostly on Nautilus and MedX machines, not free weights. So Jones wasn't wrong. Note: it is easier to regain muscle that you lost, than to build new muscle.
Med X machines are great as well. Doug Brignole, the number one person for body mechanics says they work really well, and fit the body's natural range of motion and strength curves
@@richbrake9910 I agree. I was lucky enough to train on MedX machines at Roger Schwab's gym when I lived in Philly. Best machines I ever used. Arthur Jones was a genius. It's a shame that many people don't realize that. Nautilus changed Arthur's original design and ruined their machines and went belly up. It's getting near impossible to find a gym with Nautilus or MedX machines any more. Arthur's son, Gary, is also very smart and invented Hammer machines, which are really good too.
@@KWengSport I trained once every 3 or 4 days, depending on how I felt. If I felt a bit tired, I knew I hadn't completely recovered from my last workout and that working out would be a mistake. If I was chomping at the bit to get back to the gym, I knew it was time. So for example, I might train legs on Monday, then back and biceps on Thursday. If I was up to it, I would hit chest, delts, and triceps on Sunday. If I was still tired, I would wait until Monday. You should be adding something at every workout. Whether it is a couple of reps, or 5 or 10 lbs on the bar. If you are not making progress at every single workout, something is wrong. It's likely that you are training too much (too many sets, or too many days per week), or less likely you aren't training hard enough. I added weight to the barbell or machines at almost every workout. Those were the best gains I have ever made and practically defied belief. It can be done if you train hard and smart. I'm nearly 50 now and curious what I can accomplish if I return to lifting with Mentzer's routine. Maybe if I find a good gym I'll document my results this time.
@@danbixler4021 thanks for replying, so you preferred split routine over full body and only once a week for a body part. Would you do one set to failure and only one exercise per body part?
I trained on Nautilus equipment in the eighties after training with barbells for three years. The intensity of contraction on those machines was unbelievable. When performed properly a nautilus work out was 30 mins long but brutal. I made the best gains ever on those machines. The machines were a product of Jones genius, and that's what he wanted to prove. Most bodybuilders now could not take the intensity of a nautilus workout. When performed consistently they are punishing to the extent that you saw the machines as instruments of torture!!
Ha, ha, bullshit! Nautilus is not a superior way to train. No division 1 college football team, NFL, NHL or professional rugby team trains with Nautilus. If those big blue machines were so good every strength athlete in the world would be on the program. Do you work for the company?
And that's the problem. No torture device is going to work long term. There's a difference between a grueling but satisfying workout and torture. The only way HIT will work in bodybuilding is if it's modified to what the individual is realistically comfortable with. And then, is it still HIT?
@@carpediem6568 depends if you want results while training naturally? Jones's principle was simple but extremely effective. It involved often 20 - 30 min workouts, Hard but brief but you were doing it to achieve results that were very satisfying. Just look at the results achieved by Ellington Darden in his books, all based on nautilus principles. He didn't consider a work out a social activity just a means to an end.
@@christofl6523 Maybe other competitors didn't like Nautilus since they would put them out of business and decided to sabotage them. That's another possibility.
Randy is exactly right. It was a roughly a 45lb gain for Cassey. You can not go by those calibers that measure body fat. Just look at the before and after pictures of Cassey and you can tell he is at about the same percentage of bodyfat. He is bigger in the after picture but not leaner.
@@tipstolevelupinlife5837 NO..... If he had the same body fat percentage as he did at 168 or whatever it was he started from, his lean body mass just went up............
@@berserko2008 He actually had a lower body fat percentage, as well as less body fat, which are two different things. His feat of accomplishment in those 28 days will probably never be duplicated. Arnold says Viator was the best mesomorph in modern history.
@@little_engine_goes_to_Thailand he was quoting Mike in saying one all-out set to failure is better than doing set after set. It had nothing to do with hunting my guy you misunderstood the comment
I remember when Nautilus Fitness Clubs were popping up all over the place. As a young green lifter, I intuitively knew there is a no substitute for free weights. As a supplement, I could certainly see the value of the pull over machine, and the calf machine, but all the others I'm not so sure about. Genetics, Diet, Supplements, and Consistency are variables in the equation that simply can not be overlooked or discounted. As far as the HITT method, I've tried it and part of what I realize is that I get enjoyment out of doing multiple sets / high volume and getting a pump. Never Skip Calf Day fellers. 🏋️🇺🇸💪
@ Quantum Potential - Re: " As a young green lifter, I intuitively knew there is a no substitute for free weights." Apparently, you were an insightful young person. Machines are great for those who are neophytes, for those recovering from injury, and for certain specialized uses, such as rehab. They're obviously better than nothing as a choice for resistance training, if you have no other alternatives. But the traditional free-weight gym rats have been proven correct in a lot of ways. Free-weights force you to recruit the muscles of stability and balance and develop proprioception to a degree that supported movements do not. Pretty tough to top compound movements, in things like squats, dead-lifts and the like, as well. No school like the old school....
Your body doesn't know or care what type of weights you use. Arthur Jones said Nautilus machines give you better range of motion, but you can break the muscle down just was well with a static hold, which does not have any range of motion; therefore, free weights are not any better for muscle building. You may get too strong for the machine though, depending on your genetics, which would mean you now need the free weights.
To be "strong" with a barbell, you must lift that barbell with increasing weight over time. If this doesn't matter to you, machines are safer, & offer a better range of fully-resisted motion.
Yes the ability to rebound on muscle gain for some people is absolutely phenomenal I have a friend named Gabe Moen you can find him here on UA-cam that if he eats correctly and keeps everything on point he can gain a pound to 2 lb of muscle yes I said muscle per week I have seen him at 330 lb with lateral striations on his abs and he has entered the Mr America Way in 294.... Some people just have freaky genetics and Casey was obviously one of those people...
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Look at all of the various machines at gyms today. Most of them have the old Nautilus shaped type cams providing variable resistance. Jones would be pleased.
Yup, almost every exercise machine that was manufactured and sold since the initial advent of Nautilus machines is or was a knock off of Arthur’s Nautilus designs.
Jones was a genius marketer not engineer. He convinced millions his big blue machines were better than free weights and they trained until they realized the machines were junk. No professional strength athlete or NFL or NHL player uses Nautilus for their training.
@Mario Cantani Yes, I have trained with Nautilus machines and trained to failure as instructed. Like everyone else I got a few initial gains on the machines that did not translate to strength anywhere else like with free weights or bodyweight exercises. But enough about me. Please tell me the NFL, NHL, Olympic team, or any rugby team in the world that trains with Nautilus. Which powerlifters,world strongmen competitors, or arm wrestling champs train with Nautilus?
Some of us remember the 1970 and 71 AAU Mr America. Casey Viator absolutely EXPLODED on the bodybuilding scene. Although he placed 3rd in 70 , he literally stole the show over Dickerson and Waller. All this at 18 years of age . In 71 he didn't just win the Mr A , he completely blew away the competition becoming the youngest winner ever. He was ,at the time, mentioned in the same lofty heights as Arnold and Sergio. This was before HGH , and or any other exotic PEDS. The point is Casey's genetics were one in a million !!! Jones was brilliant . But his brilliance in promoting himself and Nautilus outshined anything else. Nautilus was /is fine , but certainly not what Jones ,nor the devotees that followed claim it to be. The point is anyone familiar with Viator and his incredible genetic ability to put on muscle wouldn't doubt the fact that ,coming back from injury and a low body weight , he could gain a huge amount of muscle. Maybe even the amount claimed . Hard to believe , no doubt. The two people that actually know are gone.
Many years ago at a seminar in Florida, Jones invited questions from the audience. I asked him a question, he picked up the mike and said "young man, I have always believed that there is no such thing as a stupid question. You just proved me wrong."
@@STGStrengthandPower I asked him if he thought Nautilus or strength training would increase a boxer's or martial artist's punching power. I was an amateur boxer at that time so I was interested in that.
Thank you for posting this interview! I've been diving deep into Arthur Jones's HIT program and the Colorado Experiment. Wish that more gyms had the old Nautilus machines to try these programs.
Sorry to be so offtopic but does any of you know of a way to get back into an instagram account? I was stupid forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Dakari Kaysen i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process atm. Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
I was there. Casey was a one off genetic freak. Arthur hit the crest of the wave and road it to fortune and fame. Just one of those rare times when the Stars aligned.
and, as another commenter stated, he was coming back from an untrained (and presumably off cycle) state. Muscle memory + PEDs + Food again in addition to any sufficient lifting stimulus and he was bound to blow back up
Had less to do with the stars and more to do with many years of working 18 hour days seven days a week with many mistakes and failures along the way that would have been too much for most men but Arthur just kept plugging away with quite a few Eureka! moments along the way.
They just regained "muscle memory." I tried this workout, no gains. I did increase my strength dramatically. This workout was more mentally challenging than physical. I was happy.
it actually doesn't even matter if they starved themselves before or took steroids or what fat loss there was or even if it was regaining muscles mass....the muscle gain over that period of time for the amount of time spent training demonstrates a far more efficient method of body building
I managed to put on 30 pounds in 2 months with minimal to no fat gain. At 6'1 I was eating 3500 calories a day and 230 grams of protein. Following Mike's Ideal routine working out every 4 days at minimum. For a little bit I tried to go down to 3 days but my body couldn't recover that quickly.
There's still no perfect way to measure bodyfat%. Gained muscle will have new fat in & around it, while the physique still appears as lean as previously. 30 lean lbs in 2 months, natural, is only possible when some of the weight-gain is due to youthful maturing.
Casey did not look 245 in those early 80s Mr Olympias (maybe you are referring to the off season)....5' 7" tall Casey looked bigger at his final Colorado Experiment weight of 212 in 1973 than in the 1983 Mr Olympia.......
Ray Mentzer same height as Viator was up 250 lbs by 1982. Sergio Oliva also competed at 250 in 1980 and 1983 at 5-9.5 Don't forget these mass monsters.
I trained with Mike Mentzer years ago. Yes muscle Memory hard training in such a short time. No steriods. I gained 20 pounds of muscle in a short time but not as fast as Casey The stronger you are and handling heavy weight will add muscle fast.
Arthur Jones knew his high intensity short workouts actually worked but the average bodybuilder was not going to gain 45 pounds of muscle in 28 days. That’s why Arthur and Casey lose a lot of weight before the experiment because Arthur knew about muscle memory. Arthur did not get the great results because muscle memory works for guys under 40 years old. Arthur was around 60 years old, smoked and claimed he caught the flu during the experiment and did not complete the experiment on himself. Arthur was extremely happy with Casey’s results because it made him a multi millionaire and a household name.
A few key things, the fat loss I always questioned and it's basically been confirmed in this video, Casey was rebuilding recently lost muscle, Casey was dieted down just before the experiment, he was already downsized from the hospitalisation, l. But one thing that is for sure Casey definitely put on a lot of size and muscle during the experiment
Indeed. It would've been more impressive if he'd achieved his previous competitive bodyweight & leanness, but there's still been nothing since that compares.
Casey Viator had extraordinarily short tendons and correspondingly, extraordinarily long muscles in almost all muscle groups. Arthur Jones was right about muscle length, with it being the main determinant for potential muscular size. Sergio Oliva had short tendons everywhere.
I use both Nautilus equipment and free weights. I do not consider either one of these methods to be inherently superior to the other. To me, "proper form" is the most important consideration to maximize gains and minimize injury.
Yes he told that to Mike Mentzer as well. He told other people other versions of the story as well. Unfortunately at this point his accounts are no longer credible because he's directly conflicted himself on multiple occasions. My guess is he was asked so many times about it that at some point he just started messing with people.
Isokinetic means speed-based. The original machines required subjects to pull as hard & fast as possible to register effort. If they moved a little slower, they registered less; & risked registering zero. No negative, not a little, none. NOW, motorized machines, such as ARX, set a constant, irresistible speed. Technically, no resistance in EITHER direction, as the machine would move with no one on it. The subject strives, futilely, to speed the concentric & stop the eccentric. This enables a level of effort impossible any other way. Thus, two technologies that have only their name in common.
Rich, when I and others I’ve trained with used a Nautilus pullover machine our shoulder pain went away and our range of motion increased. It must be said that proper seat height and much care in every rep concerning range is most important. Egos and speed of progress must be contained. I agree that without the vigilance danger is ever present.
Casey didn´t win all that muscle!! But regained It. When you see the "before" pictures that¨s the body of an "ex bodybuilder" no matter what they say. He wasn¨t in his best shape, however, Is an impressive achievement but in anyway a real gain of muscle
According to mike mentzer he and Casey were very close friends and mike said in one of his recorded interviews that Casey was in fact on steroids during the Colorado experiment.
I regained about 20-25lbs of muscle in a month when I was in my 20s - I'd spent the 6 months in Thailand & lost 30lb. I was natty & nowhere near the genetic potential of Viator, so for him to regain 40-45lb of muscle in a month is not surprising at all.
Muscle memory is awesome. 21 years ago(I can't believe it's been that long)at 35 years old I had finally gotten the arms I wanted since I started training at 14. I originally started with 3 full body WO each week. And it would've worked great but unfortunately I started following the "Arnold" routines. Needless to say as I got older I slowly backed-off my sets and training. By the time I was 35 I had gone from 16 sets for Biceps with 12 inch arms to 18 5/8's inch arms cold-but-flexed(doingonly 5 sets)no pump at 190-192 pounds at 5'7 at roughly 9-10% true bodyfat. I kept those guns for a couple of years and started missing alot of workout due to overtime at work. After awhile I measured my arms and they had shrunk to under 18...about 17.5. I was like CRAP!...my arms are small(I could still had decent abs so I wasn't fat)so I started on my specialty arm routine and "BAM" , in one week my arms shot back to over 18.5 measured cold in the morning. Back then I was doing 4-5 sets for arms. 2 sets Preachers, 2 sets Incline curls. Triceps got 2 sets French Press, 2 sets Tricep Cable Push Downs, and a set or two of dip behind the back. Every set taken to absolute failure. This routine took my arms from 17 1/4 to 18 5/8's in three months. Today, in my mid 50's I'm still trying to get my arms back from a quiropractor induced spinal cord injury at age 42 that brought my took my right arm down to under 14 inches. Today , first thing in the morning my undamaged arms measures a solid 18 and my right arm is roughly 17.5. I'm currently doing a arms routine that Arthur Jones protege Ellington Darden recommends. It's 3 sets total. I have high hopes for this. Only time will tell.
You should interview Steve Holman and Johnathan Lawson from the 10 week size surge booklet which was published through Iron Man magazine...it was based in this experiment
I'd like to see a colorado experiment in a pro-steroids environment. How much can one gain in X time on steroids and how much can they retain after. Before the cycle, diet until lean and get a colonic (or 3 if needed) so the body is primed to gain weight (and just make sure it's muscle) as well as able to absorb nutrients optimally. The limits of genes could be tested as well, perhaps a genetically gifted person; but I'd rather see how much can be gained on steroids while minimizing side effects. 8 weeks on an optimal dose of steroids to maximize results while keeping side effects minimal (I like anavar, but not everyone can gain on it; sustanon would fill a lot of receptors.) Maybe HGH, insulin (can be fatal, very low dose if any), igf1 (possible long term risks), t3 (can wreck metabolism, but might increase it enough in the short term to increase nutrient absorbtion) and a diet rich in protein, fat, carbs (no junk food though.) Heavy weight lifting, use of micro incremental weight increases as needed. In a first cycle, 30-50lbs gained in 8-12 weeks is possible; of that if you're 15% bodyfat then expect 15% of gains to be fat if you're still looking like the same fat level. There's subcutaneous water (not ideal) but also intramuscular glycogen and water which might be 20lbs of this. My honest opinion, assuming a doctor monitored all this; someone could regain all lost muscle and put on 0.5-2" on their arms of new muscle depending on if this was their first cycle and how much training and how old they were. If they had lost 1.5 and gained that plus 1.5, thats 3 inches and 30-45lbs of mostly lean mass. In 8 weeks, I think 16-40lbs of lean mass (including glycogen, a normal amount of intramuscular water etc) is possible; but I don't know if a 40 year old could do it.
Steve Reeves won Mr Universe natural after not training for a year (not starved, but not trained) then doing a routine he detailed and eating a lot of beef (probably the most he ever ate.) Something like 19lbs in 3 weeks, though I think he hyped it a bit and actually trained longer than 3 weeks for the Mr Universe that he won.
IMHO-i a)t was a great experiment , b)the results were definitely superb , c)dont be trapped in naivity "supplements " etc ,played also their role for the magnitude of the results .d) Casey was a superior athlete but not a super genetic freak,just came into the sport with nice muscles, lines , structure and metabolism like many athletes have and ive seen through the years in the various gyms ive been e) A.Jones also used "supplements" f)Casey was 20 years old in that age anything good can happen
Even if Casey took steroids the results were still astonishing. Of course it wasn’t what anyone could get, so as an example for everyone it’s not meaningful. But as a validation of HIT, it was superb. Even top pro bodybuilders never expected to gain such muscle so quickly, especially on such little training.
Bodybuilders back then took most of their steroids when trying to lose fat without losing muscle. When they bulked, food took care of the muscle. Casey was very smooth here. To see what he looked like on steroids, the next photo makes the difference obvious.
After over 40 years in ,,gym society'' ( I'm 58 )I'm personally returned to free weight training. As ,,lazy'' lifter I looking for most efficient weight lifting routine and free weights is the best for me.
So called free weights work however they are not as safe or as efficient as Nautilus machines, especially those retrofitted to decrease internal machine friction by replacing bushings with bearings and chains with Kevlar belts or even cables.
It was real. No joke...no juice...no smoke and mirrors. Just read any one of Dr. Ellington Darden's (prolific volume) of books on the matter. Arthur Jones and Casey Viator were 2 of a kind, put in the right environment for the right NAUTILUS storm to happen. We are all better because of it.
Bullshit brother. The whole thing was a set-up. Everyone was a upper level bodybuilder. They showed up detrained, off the gear, and then went on cycle and started training with Jones equipment. 007
You do know Darden was part of the experiment. Having been employed by Jones to help sell the story. Darden will back up the story as he had a vested interest in it.
That's the best video I ever saw on the Colorado experiment and Randy really explained a lot of the controversial aspects of the experiment... I never thought Casey lost a single pound of fat and even looked like he had gained some fat during the experiment, yet at the same time, I honestly believe that he did not have to take steroids to achieve his results, nor did he look like a person who was on steroids and retaining fluids.... so at the end of the day, it seems that the Colorado experiment was really a study in starvation, refeeding, muscle atrophy and memory in a person with extraordinary, perhaps one in several million, genetics... and nevertheless and even so, the results were astounding to say the least......
The prevalence of drugs made it easy and possible. Much like Arnie's last win with only a short time of training. It's not evidence of which system is best.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines So why all the best coaches and athletes from today say to focus on intensity? No hate on you just want to hear your point and if you know coaches and today athletes who talk about volume
So technically what I understand from this is these workouts are great for muscle memory, makes sense cause negative will definitely Going to give you the most pump which is all you need to bring blood flow back into the muscle fibers to bring back too the size it was. I don't know it would be enough to create new fibers
The Colorado experiment i🤨Well Casey viator lost a lot of size due to a bad reaction to antibiotics,then on top of that he starved himself to loose more size because Arthur Jones would pay him cash for every bit of muscle he regained.But all in all HIT training can work
Look HIT was advantageous to Naturals and overtrained lifters. You can't recover within 24 or even 48 hours. The steroids(Gas) allow for more volume and workouts. What's so hard to understand?
@@dtm4071 I missed the Natural Part, lol. Anyway where's the other Giants ? Its No secret enhanced are Bigger and Stronger. HIT was just the Optimal for training in Mentzer's opinion. Nobody ever stared you could win Mr. Olympia Natural and using HIT
I read an interview with Casey once where he said that Arthur insisted that you do the I think it was one or two sets to failure format but Casey said every time Arthur turned his back he was doing more sets he would sneak into the gym at night to pound out some extra work cuz he didn't feel one that was enough
I read something similar but the article I read indicated that when Viator was left to his own devices that he would actually lose muscular size until Arthur was able to directly supervise his training after which he would once again gain muscular size.
i would say Casy was very close to same body fat in before and after... so imo if he had 15 lbs of total body fat at 165lbs .....at 212 lbs his body fat was not more than 16 lbs... he pretty much added pure muscle and may even have lost body fat after 4 weeks of training...
He said he was only regaining weight he already had LOL, from using steroids. 100% Beyond any doubt Casey was using steroids but it's still impressive, even with muscle memory and anabolics.
It would take a well funded group to figure out the best training methodology. Find and pay say 1000 sets of twins men and women 18 to thirty who have not lifted weights routinely and divide into 4 groups of 250. One group on steroids and the other twin group natural doing HIT and then of course group of 250 on steroids other twin group doing conventional progressive multi-set routines and analysis results. Complicated and expensive but would be interesting to see the results.
Don't need all that , we already know hard effort builds muscle , not volume , how long , how many sets , this of course without drugs . I've taken people who lifted 20yrs never got any results and in like 2 wks changed their bodies considerable .
The CE was a great publicity stunt for Nautilus. Yes, the machines are great. I've used them, and probably everyone has used them at one point or another in their training careers. Are they more effective than barbells/machines? In some cases, yes, and in some cases, no. But they're incredible, no doubt. In Casey's case, he'd lost weight due to an accident and a bad reaction to a tetanus shot, if I'm not mistaken. So he was underweight at the time of the experiment. He later said that he was shoveling down food all the time and training very hard. Did he sneak out at night and do extra sets at another gym? Some sources say yes; others say no. Was he using 'roids? My guess is yes. Even with his genetics--off the scale--and the rebound effect of training to get himself back on track--I find it hard to believe that he got up to 212 (from 166) without using PEDs. Moreover, unless I'm missing my frontal lobe, why would you factor in losing 17 pounds of fat (or something like that) as a muscle gain. Muscle is muscle, and fat is fat. Even so, it was an impressive rebound, but for the average guy, if they're expecting massive gains from doing one set to poopy-pants failure, they're going to be very disappointed. They'll gain, but anecdotal evidence suggests that higher-volume training--not HIGH volume--done sensibly, gradually upping the weight and reps and sets every so often, and then backing off for a bit, rinse and repeat, is the better way to train. There is no 'best'--only what's best at the time. And all things change...
I have a feeling allot of Arthur Jones ideas where not as far off as most current people can comprehend. All one has to do it read up on Dorian Yates. Dorian achieved tremendous growth in far lest time than about all the bodybuilders of his time and sets in the gym. Dorian was using allot of Jones's concepts. I think the reason Jones's ideas dont work with some people is the fact most people don't have the mind to accomplish this. They are not able to mentally generate this kind of intensity due to the fact their mind is not wired correctly. A bunch of weak minded B type personalities that are not self starters and constantly need coaching. Type Bs are weak minded morons. Allot of people are B types that is why they cannot build allot of muscle naturally. I know people now who literally think its cool to take steroids. What a ridiculous mind set. I am not saying steroids are totally bad but this minds set pretty much is the concept that if you dont take steroids you will not make any gains or not much. I think steroids is for people who can gain allot of muscle mass naturally then they use steroids to obtain that elite amount required to win the top contest. Steroids are not for average people with mediocre genetics. Steroids are waisted on these types.
While Yates was much closer to the HIT concept than other bodybuilders, he did lots of heavy "warmups", jerked the weights to finish last reps, & took steroids, HGH, & insulin.
HV people just won't admit that way of training is wrong . How long or how many sets has nothing to do with building muscle how hard is , and without drugs you will over train using a HV approach plain and simple . Think of how many men ruin themselves doing HV not getting any results then going to steroids instead of finding , accepting the truth . Reminds me of the verse in the bible " They perish because they don't love the truth "
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Look this is simple , I would say 97% of men who go on steroids go on them because they aren't getting results in changing their body's and the reason is their grossly over training , it's that simple . I personally never got any where doing HV , not until I cut way back on volume did I get results in changing my body .
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines You know I have pretty good genetics and when I trained HV set after set I never got anywhere changing my body , only when I did what Jones espoused did I make gains . How do you explain that ?
The Colorado Experiment: The inventor of Nautilus effectively set out to prove one could build impossible levels of muscle growth in 28 days using said Nautilus equipment, implementing only a dozen or so 30 minute workouts in the 28 days. Seems legit…
Casey was a genetic freak....he was incredibly strong and could gain muscle just sneezing. He way later said that Nautilus equipment was a piece of crap.
@Edward I believe it was about 5 years later after he was in Colorado. Some article....can't remember, I THINK it was the bodybuilding magazine that came out of Canada back then. Sergio Oliva pretty much said the same thing after he lost to Bill Pearl in England....what was that, 1972. I saw pics (Iron Man Magazine) of Casey doing 8-10 rep STRICT curls with 225 lbs. and did 20 rep squats with 600 lbs. Not bad for someone weighing around 210.
Nope, Casey never said that and he continued to utilize Nautilus machines for his workouts and for his training clients until he passed away too young.
@@theoxley Sergio didn’t lose to Bill Pearl in the 1971 NABBA Mr. Universe he lost to the NABBA promoters. Try to find photos of Oliva in that contest beyond the same 1 or 2 poor photos of him published . Peak Muscle Maker, the British bodybuilding magazine, did publish quite a few photos of Sergio from the contest but not any other magazine I know of. Sergio literally dwarfed Pearl and that is an understatement. Additionally Pearl doesn’t have a back , to speak of. Try and find a photo of Pearl’s back in any mag. Lots of front and side poses but I can only think of one photo of his back in the billions of bb mags I own.
@@bigbillbigbill8472 Didn't the old Iron Man magazine have pics of Sergio standing next to Pearl? I remember seeing Parks, Sergio and Pearl standing next to each other.....I thought is was Iron Man. Sergio was way bigger than all of them....but he was smooth, hardly cut up. If he had been in the shape he was when the Olympia contest was in Germany, there would have been no doubt that he was the best in the NABBA contest. Of course Arnold won the contest in Germany.....talk about crooked Joe Weider. Even Columbo said that Sergio was in better shape than all of them.
@@bigbillbigbill8472 Casey did say that Nautilus machines were crap....and so did Pearl. At Pearl's gym, he even modified the unusual spiral cams that Jones said was the ultimate design. Jones was an idiot.
Some time ago... l read a report about the Colorado experiment on line, by someone who was there. He said to jones.... just as Casey was about to do dips: l don,t think he will do more than 4......jones replied with: he will do 20, or l will kick his ass up round his shoulders lol.
Yea, Jones was tough, both as a trainer and employer. He once grabbed Arnold by his jacket and through him up against the car near Deland. Arnold just smiled, but it shows how Jones was.
Arthur Jones and my Dad were partners in business ventures back when Arthur was doing a TV Show in New Orleans called "WILD CARGO" in the early 60's. They went together to Africa and South America to film in the Savannas and jungles for the show and even made a movie together. This was in the late '50's and early 60's. My brother Earl and I went with Arthur and my Dad up to Calgary, Alberta Canada to look for airplane parts for Arthur's B-25 bomber which he owned and used for hauling animals around.( BTW- Arthur was a WWII B-25 pilot under Jimmy Doolittle's raiders which bombed Japan). Anyway, it was at a restaurant in Calgary that Arthur drew his NAUTILUS machine concept on a CLOTH table napkin and explained how this would revolutionalize bodybuilding. Later, he got with Bill Pearl to show him his concept which Pearl was skeptical about. The rest is history, Arthur became a billionaire through NAUTILUS and had his home base in Ocala, Florida at "JUMBOLAYA" which was an estate with a 7,500' long private airport. John Travolta now owns it and has his airplanes based there. Arthur Jones was a one-of-a-kind character, both genius and crazy man at the same time.
Jumbo Lair was the name of Arthur’s estate. After Arthur lost it in a divorce to his ex-wife Terry she divided lots that incorporated access to the runway of which John Travolta purchased one. She later rented out the mansion for events and eventually sold the property. Perhaps Travolta did end up buying up the property but I don’t know.
This is very interesting piece of history. Thank you for sharing.💪🏼💪🏼
@bigbillbigbill8472 Teri may have changed it after she got it. Arthur had an elephant named "JUMBO" and liked New Orleans "Jambalaya" which was cleverly added together resulting in "JUMBOLAYA". That was what he told my Brother Earl who visited him in Ocala before Arthur's death.
What a incredible wealth of knowledge and history Randy possesses❣️
Awesome video
There seems to be pretty convincing anecdotal evidence that the positive portion of the repetition or lift (concentric) develops strength, while the negative (eccentric) portion of the rep causes the micro-tears that build new fibers, causing the growth. This can be observed in different strength sports. Olympic lifting, for example, tends to display concentric or positive only lifts. The athletes are typically very strong but not overly muscular for their weight class. Powerlifters see more muscular development because they incorporate more negative or eccentric motion in their lifts, the bench press and squat specifically, but the deadlift does contain some eccentric too. Bodybuilders seem to focus heavily on the eccentric, with slower negatives and faster concentric repetitions. They typically have the most muscular breakdown and growth as a result, but are not nearly as explosive in the concentric portion of the lifts.
I compleatly agree with your ecentric vs concentric movment effects on the muscle micro-tearing.
The main difference between Power Training vs Strength Training is, that strength refers to the ability to overcome resistance,
while power refers to the ability to overcome resistance in the shortest period of time.
Max lifts 1-2 reps longer rest between sets = Myofibrilgenisis or, more pullys in the system = Weightlifter with higher percentage of fast twitch fibers.
Max Reps 10-20 shorter rest between sets = Sarcoplasmic Hypertropy or, more batteries in the system = Bodybuilder with higher percentage of slow twitch fibers.
Studies using college Students, college Athletes and, Bodybuilders mesuring strength and size, then they stoped all athletic training for a period of 2 weeks.
College students remained the same, college athletes had some sligh change in both and, the bodybuilders lost the most size and strength.
I would say positives and negatives both build muscle and strength, but do one better than the other.
Competitive lifters avoid gaining muscular weight to stay in their division. By the time they reach elite level, improved performances are from refined skill. If they did gain muscular weight, they'd be even stronger, but possibly less successful vs heavier opponents.//Many bodybuilders are incredibly strong, but most of them don't rehearse the skills required to lift the most possible weight.
That Nautilus pullover machine was awesome!!!! I wish I could find one.
I agree! We had one at my gym back in 1979 and it was a really great piece of equipment that should still be in gym's today. Every so often you see one but not frequently.
They had many machines i would choose over today's. Their pec deck was my favorite.
@@dave23024 hammer strength pullover is decent
This is definitely possible with High Intensity Training. I wish I had taken pictures and measurements, but I did something similar on my own in my early 20s. I don't have Casey's genetics, but still have very good genes for gaining muscle. I weighed around 205 lbs, of mostly muscle, a little fat around my waist. I went into Marine Corps boot camp for 3 months and came out weighing around 175 lbs. I had lost muscle and fat. I had 10 days off between boot camp and School of Infantry. I trained really hard using a routine I got from Mike Mentzer on a phone call with him. I continued this routine during the first few weeks of SOI. We had a dress uniform inspection after I had been there for about a month. My uniform that fit nicely in boot camp, did not fit at all. I couldn't get my pants over my massive thighs. I could button only the waist of my jacket, but barely fit my arms and shoulders into it. I gained very little fat, but gained back all the muscle I had lost in boot camp and then some. My Platoon Sgt who did our uniform inspection couldn't believe I grew that much muscle that fast. I'm still surprised they didn't test me for roids, which I've never used. So, this kind of gain is possible, but not easy or common. I also got my greatest results training mostly on Nautilus and MedX machines, not free weights. So Jones wasn't wrong. Note: it is easier to regain muscle that you lost, than to build new muscle.
Med X machines are great as well. Doug Brignole, the number one person for body mechanics says they work really well, and fit the body's natural range of motion and strength curves
How many times per week did you train?
@@richbrake9910 I agree. I was lucky enough to train on MedX machines at Roger Schwab's gym when I lived in Philly. Best machines I ever used. Arthur Jones was a genius. It's a shame that many people don't realize that. Nautilus changed Arthur's original design and ruined their machines and went belly up. It's getting near impossible to find a gym with Nautilus or MedX machines any more. Arthur's son, Gary, is also very smart and invented Hammer machines, which are really good too.
@@KWengSport I trained once every 3 or 4 days, depending on how I felt. If I felt a bit tired, I knew I hadn't completely recovered from my last workout and that working out would be a mistake. If I was chomping at the bit to get back to the gym, I knew it was time. So for example, I might train legs on Monday, then back and biceps on Thursday. If I was up to it, I would hit chest, delts, and triceps on Sunday. If I was still tired, I would wait until Monday. You should be adding something at every workout. Whether it is a couple of reps, or 5 or 10 lbs on the bar. If you are not making progress at every single workout, something is wrong. It's likely that you are training too much (too many sets, or too many days per week), or less likely you aren't training hard enough. I added weight to the barbell or machines at almost every workout. Those were the best gains I have ever made and practically defied belief. It can be done if you train hard and smart. I'm nearly 50 now and curious what I can accomplish if I return to lifting with Mentzer's routine. Maybe if I find a good gym I'll document my results this time.
@@danbixler4021 thanks for replying, so you preferred split routine over full body and only once a week for a body part. Would you do one set to failure and only one exercise per body part?
I trained on Nautilus equipment in the eighties after training with barbells for three years. The intensity of contraction on those machines was unbelievable. When performed properly a nautilus work out was 30 mins long but brutal. I made the best gains ever on those machines. The machines were a product of Jones genius, and that's what he wanted to prove. Most bodybuilders now could not take the intensity of a nautilus workout. When performed consistently they are punishing to the extent that you saw the machines as instruments of torture!!
Ha, ha, bullshit! Nautilus is not a superior way to train. No division 1 college football team, NFL, NHL or professional rugby team trains with Nautilus. If those big blue machines were so good every strength athlete in the world would be on the program. Do you work for the company?
You’re not the only one I’ve read about loving how intense those machines where.
And that's the problem. No torture device is going to work long term. There's a difference between a grueling but satisfying workout and torture. The only way HIT will work in bodybuilding is if it's modified to what the individual is realistically comfortable with. And then, is it still HIT?
@@carpediem6568 depends if you want results while training naturally? Jones's principle was simple but extremely effective. It involved often 20 - 30 min workouts, Hard but brief but you were doing it to achieve results that were very satisfying. Just look at the results achieved by Ellington Darden in his books, all based on nautilus principles. He didn't consider a work out a social activity just a means to an end.
@@christofl6523 Maybe other competitors didn't like Nautilus since they would put them out of business and decided to sabotage them. That's another possibility.
Randy is exactly right. It was a roughly a 45lb gain for Cassey. You can not go by those calibers that measure body fat. Just look at the before and after pictures of Cassey and you can tell he is at about the same percentage of bodyfat. He is bigger in the after picture but not leaner.
ya so he got fatter lol
@@tipstolevelupinlife5837 NO..... If he had the same body fat percentage as he did at 168 or whatever it was he started from, his lean body mass just went up............
@@tipstolevelupinlife5837 no look at him does he look fat?
Definitely not leaner. All they did was suck down and use muscle memory and glycogen pump.
@@berserko2008 He actually had a lower body fat percentage, as well as less body fat, which are two different things. His feat of accomplishment in those 28 days will probably never be duplicated. Arnold says Viator was the best mesomorph in modern history.
My Favorite " One properly placed shot will bring an elephant down " The man was amazing .
yes bible - because killing for sport is the true meaning of a sport rolled up by having a huge advantage hiding behind a gun.
@@little_engine_goes_to_Thailand he was quoting Mike in saying one all-out set to failure is better than doing set after set. It had nothing to do with hunting my guy you misunderstood the comment
@@little_engine_goes_to_Thailand Not a hunter at all , hate it , was just an analogy to make a point , one set is enough to stimulate growth .
What if you miss? HITters...
I remember when Nautilus Fitness Clubs were popping up all over the place. As a young green lifter, I intuitively knew there is a no substitute for free weights. As a supplement, I could certainly see the value of the pull over machine, and the calf machine, but all the others I'm not so sure about.
Genetics, Diet, Supplements, and Consistency are variables in the equation that simply can not be overlooked or discounted.
As far as the HITT method, I've tried it and part of what I realize is that I get enjoyment out of doing multiple sets / high volume and getting a pump.
Never Skip Calf Day fellers.
🏋️🇺🇸💪
@ Quantum Potential - Re: " As a young green lifter, I intuitively knew there is a no substitute for free weights."
Apparently, you were an insightful young person. Machines are great for those who are neophytes, for those recovering from injury, and for certain specialized uses, such as rehab. They're obviously better than nothing as a choice for resistance training, if you have no other alternatives. But the traditional free-weight gym rats have been proven correct in a lot of ways. Free-weights force you to recruit the muscles of stability and balance and develop proprioception to a degree that supported movements do not. Pretty tough to top compound movements, in things like squats, dead-lifts and the like, as well. No school like the old school....
Your body doesn't know or care what type of weights you use. Arthur Jones said Nautilus machines give you better range of motion, but you can break the muscle down just was well with a static hold, which does not have any range of motion; therefore, free weights are not any better for muscle building. You may get too strong for the machine though, depending on your genetics, which would mean you now need the free weights.
To be "strong" with a barbell, you must lift that barbell with increasing weight over time. If this doesn't matter to you, machines are safer, & offer a better range of fully-resisted motion.
Randy Roach is great - I own the MUSCLE SMOKE & MIRRORS series
Arthur:Dont take steroids to get this Corvette or the deal is off! Casey:Ok
Stopped watching when they said no steroids. Nothing to learn here
Much of the muscle mass Viator gained was mass he lost due to injury. Still an impressive experiment.
Yes the ability to rebound on muscle gain for some people is absolutely phenomenal I have a friend named Gabe Moen you can find him here on UA-cam that if he eats correctly and keeps everything on point he can gain a pound to 2 lb of muscle yes I said muscle per week I have seen him at 330 lb with lateral striations on his abs and he has entered the Mr America Way in 294.... Some people just have freaky genetics and Casey was obviously one of those people...
Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery. Look at all of the various machines at gyms today. Most of them have the old Nautilus shaped type cams providing variable resistance. Jones would be pleased.
YEP, and that is why they all do the same thing, so it doesn't matter what you use....lol
Yup, almost every exercise machine that was manufactured and sold since the initial advent of Nautilus machines is or was a knock off of Arthur’s Nautilus designs.
Pullover machine was my favorite for back, helluva pump, i would use it as a finisher. Jones was a genius
Jones was a genius marketer not engineer. He convinced millions his big blue machines were better than free weights and they trained until they realized the machines were junk. No professional strength athlete or NFL or NHL player uses Nautilus for their training.
@Mario Cantani Yes, I have trained with Nautilus machines and trained to failure as instructed. Like everyone else I got a few initial gains on the machines that did not translate to strength anywhere else like with free weights or bodyweight exercises.
But enough about me. Please tell me the NFL, NHL, Olympic team, or any rugby team in the world that trains with Nautilus. Which powerlifters,world strongmen competitors, or arm wrestling champs train with Nautilus?
They used to with great success, not sure about now.
Nice answer, lots of shit talked online for sure.
@@christofl6523 I know for certain, the Miami Dolphins and Dallas Cowboys used them extensively.
Don’t kid yourself people, I’ve been playing this game for 30yrs plus….ALL those guys in the 70’s and 80’s were taking steroids.
and so are all the guys now..
Get out of town!
What are your overall thoughts of Arthur Jones?
No shit
Duh
Some of us remember the 1970 and 71 AAU Mr America. Casey Viator absolutely EXPLODED on the bodybuilding scene. Although he placed 3rd in 70 , he literally stole the show over Dickerson and Waller. All this at 18 years of age . In 71 he didn't just win the Mr A , he completely blew away the competition becoming the youngest winner ever. He was ,at the time, mentioned in the same lofty heights as Arnold and Sergio. This was before HGH , and or any other exotic PEDS. The point is Casey's genetics were one in a million !!! Jones was brilliant . But his brilliance in promoting himself and Nautilus outshined anything else. Nautilus was /is fine , but certainly not what Jones ,nor the devotees that followed claim it to be. The point is anyone familiar with Viator and his incredible genetic ability to put on muscle wouldn't doubt the fact that ,coming back from injury and a low body weight , he could gain a huge amount of muscle. Maybe even the amount claimed . Hard to believe , no doubt. The two people that actually know are gone.
@anonymous do you mean the Nautilus Pullover machine ?
The story is the amount of training and time to achieve these results. 2hrs a week!
Many years ago at a seminar in Florida, Jones invited questions from the audience. I asked him a question, he picked up the mike and said "young man, I have always believed that there is no such thing as a stupid question. You just proved me wrong."
What did you ask him? The man was a savage.
@@STGStrengthandPower I asked him if he thought Nautilus or strength training would increase a boxer's or martial artist's punching power. I was an amateur boxer at that time so I was interested in that.
Thank you for posting this interview! I've been diving deep into Arthur Jones's HIT program and the Colorado Experiment. Wish that more gyms had the old Nautilus machines to try these programs.
Sorry to be so offtopic but does any of you know of a way to get back into an instagram account?
I was stupid forgot the account password. I would appreciate any tricks you can give me.
@Canaan Eric Instablaster ;)
@Dakari Kaysen i really appreciate your reply. I got to the site through google and I'm in the hacking process atm.
Seems to take quite some time so I will get back to you later when my account password hopefully is recovered.
@Dakari Kaysen it worked and I now got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thanks so much you saved my account :D
@Canaan Eric happy to help xD
I was there. Casey was a one off genetic freak. Arthur hit the crest of the wave and road it to fortune and fame. Just one of those rare times when the Stars aligned.
and, as another commenter stated, he was coming back from an untrained (and presumably off cycle) state. Muscle memory + PEDs + Food again in addition to any sufficient lifting stimulus and he was bound to blow back up
Had less to do with the stars and more to do with many years of working 18 hour days seven days a week with many mistakes and failures along the way that would have been too much for most men but Arthur just kept plugging away with quite a few Eureka! moments along the way.
They just regained "muscle memory." I tried this workout, no gains. I did increase my strength dramatically. This workout was more mentally challenging than physical. I was happy.
Arthur Jones was a master marketing genius.
it actually doesn't even matter if they starved themselves before or took steroids or what fat loss there was or even if it was regaining muscles mass....the muscle gain over that period of time for the amount of time spent training demonstrates a far more efficient method of body building
I managed to put on 30 pounds in 2 months with minimal to no fat gain. At 6'1 I was eating 3500 calories a day and 230 grams of protein. Following Mike's Ideal routine working out every 4 days at minimum. For a little bit I tried to go down to 3 days but my body couldn't recover that quickly.
There's still no perfect way to measure bodyfat%. Gained muscle will have new fat in & around it, while the physique still appears as lean as previously. 30 lean lbs in 2 months, natural, is only possible when some of the weight-gain is due to youthful maturing.
Casey later went on to weight 245 pounds in the early 80's. One of the first true mass monsters, along with Bertil Fox and Tim Belknap.
Oh the memories of early "FLEX" magazine issues ! And at that time, Casey was absolutely one of my favorites.
Casey did not look 245 in those early 80s Mr Olympias (maybe you are referring to the off season)....5' 7" tall Casey looked bigger at his final Colorado Experiment weight of 212 in 1973 than in the 1983 Mr Olympia.......
Ray Mentzer same height as Viator was up 250 lbs by 1982. Sergio Oliva also competed at 250 in 1980 and 1983 at 5-9.5 Don't forget these mass monsters.
but Casey since the late 70s trained in extremely high volume much higher than the mid-volumer Arnold and Co
Randy's books are blow you out of the water fantastic and must reading for people interested in the sport and the "reality" of the industry.
Couldn't agree more.
They were right about one thing, most people overtrain and don’t get enough rest..less often is more, sleep and eat enough protein for maximum growth.
I read this study many years ago, and did not understand how it was possible. I chalked it up to Casey’s genetics.
I tested arthurs hit program and it worked 100%
I trained with Mike Mentzer years ago. Yes muscle Memory hard training in such a short time. No steriods. I gained 20 pounds of muscle in a short time but not as fast as Casey The stronger you are and handling heavy weight will add muscle fast.
Arthur Jones knew his high intensity short workouts actually worked but the average bodybuilder was not going to gain 45 pounds of muscle in 28 days. That’s why Arthur and Casey lose a lot of weight before the experiment because Arthur knew about muscle memory.
Arthur did not get the great results because muscle memory works for guys under 40 years old. Arthur was around 60 years old, smoked and claimed he caught the flu during the experiment and did not complete the experiment on himself. Arthur was extremely happy with Casey’s results because it made him a multi millionaire and a household name.
Fascinating account.
Thanks.
A few key things, the fat loss I always questioned and it's basically been confirmed in this video, Casey was rebuilding recently lost muscle, Casey was dieted down just before the experiment, he was already downsized from the hospitalisation, l. But one thing that is for sure Casey definitely put on a lot of size and muscle during the experiment
Indeed. It would've been more impressive if he'd achieved his previous competitive bodyweight & leanness, but there's still been nothing since that compares.
Casey Viator had extraordinarily short tendons and correspondingly, extraordinarily long muscles in almost all muscle groups. Arthur Jones was right about muscle length, with it being the main determinant for potential muscular size. Sergio Oliva had short tendons everywhere.
the hosts' voice tone reminds me of frank zane's.
I use both Nautilus equipment and free weights. I do not consider either one of these methods to be inherently superior to the other. To me, "proper form" is the most important consideration to maximize gains and minimize injury.
Never seen that photo of Jones at 1:50
Great content
Very convincing
👍👏👏
Bill Starr wrote that Casey told him he took steroids during the experiment and snuck out at night to lift barbells.
Who knows?
Yes he told that to Mike Mentzer as well. He told other people other versions of the story as well. Unfortunately at this point his accounts are no longer credible because he's directly conflicted himself on multiple occasions. My guess is he was asked so many times about it that at some point he just started messing with people.
You have to resist a negative on isokinetic
Isokinetic means speed-based. The original machines required subjects to pull as hard & fast as possible to register effort. If they moved a little slower, they registered less; & risked registering zero. No negative, not a little, none. NOW, motorized machines, such as ARX, set a constant, irresistible speed. Technically, no resistance in EITHER direction, as the machine would move with no one on it. The subject strives, futilely, to speed the concentric & stop the eccentric. This enables a level of effort impossible any other way. Thus, two technologies that have only their name in common.
Used properly, the pullover machine is the most beneficial shoulder health and mobility machine ever built.
Doug Brignole says it is bad for the shoulder joints. Do you have material that explains why it may be good for shoulder health?
Rich, when I and others I’ve trained with used a Nautilus pullover machine our shoulder pain went away and our range of motion increased. It must be said that proper seat height and much care in every rep concerning range is most important. Egos and speed of progress must be contained.
I agree that without the vigilance danger is ever present.
Casey didn´t win all that muscle!! But regained It. When you see the "before" pictures that¨s the body of an "ex bodybuilder" no matter what they say. He wasn¨t in his best shape, however, Is an impressive achievement but in anyway a real gain of muscle
According to mike mentzer he and Casey were very close friends and mike said in one of his recorded interviews that Casey was in fact on steroids during the Colorado experiment.
...without a doubt.
@@philjohnson796 No. Tim ferris tried a similar program, and gained 30ls of pure muscle. Geek to freak.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Do some research lmao
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines clearly you haven’t but OK.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines you 100% haven’t. You are just waffling at this point.
I regained about 20-25lbs of muscle in a month when I was in my 20s - I'd spent the 6 months in Thailand & lost 30lb. I was natty & nowhere near the genetic potential of Viator, so for him to regain 40-45lb of muscle in a month is not surprising at all.
Muscle memory is awesome.
21 years ago(I can't believe it's been that long)at 35 years old I had finally gotten the arms I wanted since I started training at 14. I originally started with 3 full body WO each week. And it would've worked great but unfortunately I started following the "Arnold" routines. Needless to say as I got older I slowly backed-off my sets and training. By the time I was 35 I had gone from 16 sets for Biceps with 12 inch arms to 18 5/8's inch arms cold-but-flexed(doingonly 5 sets)no pump at 190-192 pounds at 5'7 at roughly 9-10% true bodyfat.
I kept those guns for a couple of years and started missing alot of workout due to overtime at work. After awhile I measured my arms and they had shrunk to under 18...about 17.5. I was like CRAP!...my arms are small(I could still had decent abs so I wasn't fat)so I started on my specialty arm routine and "BAM" , in one week my arms shot back to over 18.5 measured cold in the morning.
Back then I was doing 4-5 sets for arms. 2 sets Preachers, 2 sets Incline curls. Triceps got 2 sets French Press, 2 sets Tricep Cable Push Downs, and a set or two of dip behind the back. Every set taken to absolute failure. This routine took my arms from 17 1/4 to 18 5/8's in three months.
Today, in my mid 50's I'm still trying to get my arms back from a quiropractor induced spinal cord injury at age 42 that brought my took my right arm down to under 14 inches. Today , first thing in the morning my undamaged arms measures a solid 18 and my right arm is roughly 17.5. I'm currently doing a arms routine that Arthur Jones protege Ellington Darden recommends. It's 3 sets total. I have high hopes for this. Only time will tell.
How it went buddy?
Stories like these motivate me to stay consistent as a youngin
Wow that was informative.
That Intro''s music could reaaaaally benefit from being changed
Arthur Jones was sick during this experiment and did not train the way he wanted to.
That’s correct, he said he had a chest cold or bronchitis probably exacerbated by his chain smoking Pall Mal cigarettes.
You should interview Steve Holman and Johnathan Lawson from the 10 week size surge booklet which was published through Iron Man magazine...it was based in this experiment
Most of the viewers in here were not even alive during this exciting time.
Hi Randy!
Get back to Getbig Vince!
Thanks for sharing
This was common knowledge passed from gym rat to gym rat in the 80s
Who replicated it? Josh Tantini... Santini? Cant find anything online
Josh Trentine I think
I'd like to see a colorado experiment in a pro-steroids environment. How much can one gain in X time on steroids and how much can they retain after. Before the cycle, diet until lean and get a colonic (or 3 if needed) so the body is primed to gain weight (and just make sure it's muscle) as well as able to absorb nutrients optimally. The limits of genes could be tested as well, perhaps a genetically gifted person; but I'd rather see how much can be gained on steroids while minimizing side effects. 8 weeks on an optimal dose of steroids to maximize results while keeping side effects minimal (I like anavar, but not everyone can gain on it; sustanon would fill a lot of receptors.) Maybe HGH, insulin (can be fatal, very low dose if any), igf1 (possible long term risks), t3 (can wreck metabolism, but might increase it enough in the short term to increase nutrient absorbtion) and a diet rich in protein, fat, carbs (no junk food though.) Heavy weight lifting, use of micro incremental weight increases as needed. In a first cycle, 30-50lbs gained in 8-12 weeks is possible; of that if you're 15% bodyfat then expect 15% of gains to be fat if you're still looking like the same fat level. There's subcutaneous water (not ideal) but also intramuscular glycogen and water which might be 20lbs of this. My honest opinion, assuming a doctor monitored all this; someone could regain all lost muscle and put on 0.5-2" on their arms of new muscle depending on if this was their first cycle and how much training and how old they were. If they had lost 1.5 and gained that plus 1.5, thats 3 inches and 30-45lbs of mostly lean mass. In 8 weeks, I think 16-40lbs of lean mass (including glycogen, a normal amount of intramuscular water etc) is possible; but I don't know if a 40 year old could do it.
Steve Reeves won Mr Universe natural after not training for a year (not starved, but not trained) then doing a routine he detailed and eating a lot of beef (probably the most he ever ate.) Something like 19lbs in 3 weeks, though I think he hyped it a bit and actually trained longer than 3 weeks for the Mr Universe that he won.
Casey's bodyfat stayed roughly the same, so.... he still gained lots of leam mass
I workout at Nautilus in the 70s on a guest pass trying to sell memberships .it was ok but I went back to free wieghts ,just didnt feel the same .
IMHO-i a)t was a great experiment , b)the results were definitely superb , c)dont be trapped in naivity "supplements " etc ,played also their role for the magnitude of the results .d) Casey was a superior athlete but not a super genetic freak,just came into the sport with nice muscles, lines , structure and metabolism like many athletes have and ive seen through the years in the various gyms ive been e) A.Jones also used "supplements" f)Casey was 20 years old in that age anything good can happen
Negative move trumps positive move per Arthur Jones technique.
Even if Casey took steroids the results were still astonishing. Of course it wasn’t what anyone could get, so as an example for everyone it’s not meaningful. But as a validation of HIT, it was superb. Even top pro bodybuilders never expected to gain such muscle so quickly, especially on such little training.
Cheers Old Skool!
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines yes...yes he did....he admitted it in a couple of interviews
Bodybuilders back then took most of their steroids when trying to lose fat without losing muscle. When they bulked, food took care of the muscle. Casey was very smooth here. To see what he looked like on steroids, the next photo makes the difference obvious.
He admitted to before & after, not during.
After over 40 years in ,,gym society'' ( I'm 58 )I'm personally returned to free weight training. As ,,lazy'' lifter I looking for most efficient weight lifting routine and free weights is the best for me.
So called free weights work however they are not as safe or as efficient as Nautilus machines, especially those retrofitted to decrease internal machine friction by replacing bushings with bearings and chains with Kevlar belts or even cables.
Nice hat Randy!!
“Arthur’s chains.”
Such a large change in bodyweight over so short a time frame does not seem would be particularly healthy.
It was real. No joke...no juice...no smoke and mirrors. Just read any one of Dr. Ellington Darden's (prolific volume) of books on the matter. Arthur Jones and Casey Viator were 2 of a kind, put in the right environment for the right NAUTILUS storm to happen. We are all better because of it.
Bullshit brother. The whole thing was a set-up. Everyone was a upper level bodybuilder. They showed up detrained, off the gear, and then went on cycle and started training with Jones equipment.
007
You do know Darden was part of the experiment. Having been employed by Jones to help sell the story. Darden will back up the story as he had a vested interest in it.
That's the best video I ever saw on the Colorado experiment and Randy really explained a lot of the controversial aspects of the experiment... I never thought Casey lost a single pound of fat and even looked like he had gained some fat during the experiment, yet at the same time, I honestly believe that he did not have to take steroids to achieve his results, nor did he look like a person who was on steroids and retaining fluids.... so at the end of the day, it seems that the Colorado experiment was really a study in starvation, refeeding, muscle atrophy and memory in a person with extraordinary, perhaps one in several million, genetics... and nevertheless and even so, the results were astounding to say the least......
At early 80s comeback , Casey turn to high volumen training to reach his all time best shape.
Correct. If HIT was so great Casey would have kept training that way. HIT is a way inferior style of training.
@@christofl6523 HITters won't listen.
The prevalence of drugs made it easy and possible. Much like Arnie's last win with only a short time of training.
It's not evidence of which system is best.
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines So why all the best coaches and athletes from today say to focus on intensity? No hate on you just want to hear your point and if you know coaches and today athletes who talk about volume
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines explain tom platz leg growth then
So technically what I understand from this is these workouts are great for muscle memory, makes sense cause negative will definitely Going to give you the most pump which is all you need to bring blood flow back into the muscle fibers to bring back too the size it was. I don't know it would be enough to create new fibers
it is. Weights are weights.
Would anyone know Casey s diet during the Colorado experiment
Weetbix
It was reported by Arthur that Casey ate regular food, no supplements or protein powder just lots and lots of food including ice cream and cake.
The Colorado experiment i🤨Well Casey viator lost a lot of size due to a bad reaction to antibiotics,then on top of that he starved himself to loose more size because Arthur Jones would pay him cash for every bit of muscle he regained.But all in all HIT training can work
Look HIT was advantageous to Naturals and overtrained lifters.
You can't recover within 24 or even 48 hours. The steroids(Gas) allow for more volume and workouts.
What's so hard to understand?
So where are these big HIT naturals?
@@dtm4071
You mean like Dorian Yates ?
@@dtm4071 I missed the Natural Part, lol. Anyway where's the other Giants ? Its No secret enhanced are Bigger and Stronger. HIT was just the Optimal for training in Mentzer's opinion. Nobody ever stared you could win Mr. Olympia Natural and using HIT
I read an interview with Casey once where he said that Arthur insisted that you do the I think it was one or two sets to failure format but Casey said every time Arthur turned his back he was doing more sets he would sneak into the gym at night to pound out some extra work cuz he didn't feel one that was enough
I read something similar but the article I read indicated that when Viator was left to his own devices that he would actually lose muscular size until Arthur was able to directly supervise his training after which he would once again gain muscular size.
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Nice
Thank you
Wen you just think people at 40 suffer from brain fog and fatigue this days....
Stay strong 💪
Can someone tell me how old is Randy Roach during this interview, looks like he is approaching 70 or near that, am I right ?
Born April 1957, Randy's now 66, so 62 or 63 for the interview.
Arthur Jones also had a lung infection when he did the Colorado experiment so didn't work his legs he wasn't well.
and he still gained 18 lbs of muscle. Both he and Casey were coming back from long layoffs.
sound
Viator was much shorter than he appears
Both Viator and Jones were about 5’7” by my best guess after having stood right next to Arthur on many occasions.
i would say Casy was very close to same body fat in before and after... so imo if he had 15 lbs of total body fat at 165lbs .....at 212 lbs his body fat was not more than 16 lbs... he pretty much added pure muscle and may even have lost body fat after 4 weeks of training...
He said he was only regaining weight he already had LOL, from using steroids. 100% Beyond any doubt Casey was using steroids but it's still impressive, even with muscle memory and anabolics.
That picture on the right is so edited....look at the shorts! 🤣
It would take a well funded group to figure out the best training methodology. Find and pay say 1000 sets of twins men and women 18 to thirty who have not lifted weights routinely and divide into 4 groups of 250. One group on steroids and the other twin group natural doing HIT and then of course group of 250 on steroids other twin group doing conventional progressive multi-set routines and analysis results. Complicated and expensive but would be interesting to see the results.
Don't need all that , we already know hard effort builds muscle , not volume , how long , how many sets , this of course without drugs . I've taken people who lifted 20yrs never got any results and in like 2 wks changed their bodies considerable .
@@biblebill6206 Post their results then, This should be good..
@@dtm4071 This was back in the 80"s . What are you implying you can't get results training high intensity ?
@@biblebill6206 So you have no proof? Where are all the big HITters?
@@dtm4071 Ok , you win , without drugs you have to spend 3 hrs a day 6 days a week to build your body , ridiculous .
The CE was a great publicity stunt for Nautilus. Yes, the machines are great. I've used them, and probably everyone has used them at one point or another in their training careers. Are they more effective than barbells/machines? In some cases, yes, and in some cases, no. But they're incredible, no doubt.
In Casey's case, he'd lost weight due to an accident and a bad reaction to a tetanus shot, if I'm not mistaken. So he was underweight at the time of the experiment. He later said that he was shoveling down food all the time and training very hard. Did he sneak out at night and do extra sets at another gym? Some sources say yes; others say no. Was he using 'roids? My guess is yes. Even with his genetics--off the scale--and the rebound effect of training to get himself back on track--I find it hard to believe that he got up to 212 (from 166) without using PEDs. Moreover, unless I'm missing my frontal lobe, why would you factor in losing 17 pounds of fat (or something like that) as a muscle gain. Muscle is muscle, and fat is fat.
Even so, it was an impressive rebound, but for the average guy, if they're expecting massive gains from doing one set to poopy-pants failure, they're going to be very disappointed. They'll gain, but anecdotal evidence suggests that higher-volume training--not HIGH volume--done sensibly, gradually upping the weight and reps and sets every so often, and then backing off for a bit, rinse and repeat, is the better way to train. There is no 'best'--only what's best at the time. And all things change...
Very well said. I remember reading with fascination about the Colorado Experiment in 1981-1982 when I started training as a teen.
Not a Nautilus guy. Very popular in the early 70's. Always liked free weights.
Nautilus the only good machines . And hammer same thing
Hammer Strength? Great equipment
is Randy blind?
Yes...
I have a feeling allot of Arthur Jones ideas where not as far off as most current people can comprehend. All one has to do it read up on Dorian Yates. Dorian achieved tremendous growth in far lest time than about all the bodybuilders of his time and sets in the gym. Dorian was using allot of Jones's concepts. I think the reason Jones's ideas dont work with some people is the fact most people don't have the mind to accomplish this. They are not able to mentally generate this kind of intensity due to the fact their mind is not wired correctly. A bunch of weak minded B type personalities that are not self starters and constantly need coaching. Type Bs are weak minded morons. Allot of people are B types that is why they cannot build allot of muscle naturally. I know people now who literally think its cool to take steroids. What a ridiculous mind set. I am not saying steroids are totally bad but this minds set pretty much is the concept that if you dont take steroids you will not make any gains or not much. I think steroids is for people who can gain allot of muscle mass naturally then they use steroids to obtain that elite amount required to win the top contest. Steroids are not for average people with mediocre genetics. Steroids are waisted on these types.
While Yates was much closer to the HIT concept than other bodybuilders, he did lots of heavy "warmups", jerked the weights to finish last reps, & took steroids, HGH, & insulin.
The Truth About the Colorado Experiment ,It was then the nautical pain met the idle value.one has to ask Did the obese complex really bury the gain?
HV people just won't admit that way of training is wrong . How long or how many sets has nothing to do with building muscle how hard is , and without drugs you will over train using a HV approach plain and simple . Think of how many men ruin themselves doing HV not getting any results then going to steroids instead of finding , accepting the truth . Reminds me of the verse in the bible " They perish because they don't love the truth "
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Ok you win . I agree you need to train 3hrs a day 6 days a week to build muscle .
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Look this is simple , I would say 97% of men who go on steroids go on them because they aren't getting results in changing their body's and the reason is their grossly over training , it's that simple . I personally never got any where doing HV , not until I cut way back on volume did I get results in changing my body .
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines You know I have pretty good genetics and when I trained HV set after set I never got anywhere changing my body , only when I did what Jones espoused did I make gains . How do you explain that ?
Low carb? Come on man this is ridiculous. High carb plus deca and dbol. Thats your answer. The training absolutely helped but be realistic.
The Colorado Experiment:
The inventor of Nautilus effectively set out to prove one could build impossible levels of muscle growth in 28 days using said Nautilus equipment, implementing only a dozen or so 30 minute workouts in the 28 days.
Seems legit…
volume...???
the Colorado fishing story experiment
Fishy as the SPC
Casey was a genetic freak....he was incredibly strong and could gain muscle just sneezing. He way later said that Nautilus equipment was a piece of crap.
@Edward I believe it was about 5 years later after he was in Colorado. Some article....can't remember, I THINK it was the bodybuilding magazine that came out of Canada back then. Sergio Oliva pretty much said the same thing after he lost to Bill Pearl in England....what was that, 1972. I saw pics (Iron Man Magazine) of Casey doing 8-10 rep STRICT curls with 225 lbs. and did 20 rep squats with 600 lbs. Not bad for someone weighing around 210.
Nope, Casey never said that and he continued to utilize Nautilus machines for his workouts and for his training clients until he passed away too young.
@@theoxley Sergio didn’t lose to Bill Pearl in the 1971 NABBA Mr. Universe he lost to the NABBA promoters. Try to find photos of Oliva in that contest beyond the same 1 or 2 poor photos of him published . Peak Muscle Maker, the British bodybuilding magazine, did publish quite a few photos of Sergio from the contest but not any other magazine I know of. Sergio literally dwarfed Pearl and that is an understatement. Additionally Pearl doesn’t have a back , to speak of. Try and find a photo of Pearl’s back in any mag. Lots of front and side poses but I can only think of one photo of his back in the billions of bb mags I own.
@@bigbillbigbill8472 Didn't the old Iron Man magazine have pics of Sergio standing next to Pearl? I remember seeing Parks, Sergio and Pearl standing next to each other.....I thought is was Iron Man. Sergio was way bigger than all of them....but he was smooth, hardly cut up. If he had been in the shape he was when the Olympia contest was in Germany, there would have been no doubt that he was the best in the NABBA contest. Of course Arnold won the contest in Germany.....talk about crooked Joe Weider. Even Columbo said that Sergio was in better shape than all of them.
@@bigbillbigbill8472 Casey did say that Nautilus machines were crap....and so did Pearl. At Pearl's gym, he even modified the unusual spiral cams that Jones said was the ultimate design. Jones was an idiot.
Some time ago... l read a report about the Colorado experiment on line, by someone who was there. He said to jones.... just as Casey was about to do dips: l don,t think he will do more than 4......jones replied with: he will do 20, or l will kick his ass up round his shoulders lol.
Yea, Jones was tough, both as a trainer and employer. He once grabbed Arnold by his jacket and through him up against the car near Deland. Arnold just smiled, but it shows how Jones was.
.. about m.mentzer..😉
Nautilus shell-shaped gears and…
Gear.
The experiment definitely happened. What a stupid statement for the interviewer to make.
Testes testes, 1 2... Testes testes.
Dianabol, dianabol and more dianabol.