MIKE MENTZER: THE COLORADO EXPERIMENT
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- Опубліковано 6 жов 2024
- To learn more about Mike Mentzer's life, legacy and teachings, please visit: www.hituni.com...
WAY back in 1981 I recorded a seminar that Mike Mentzer gave in Rexdale, Ontario, in which he spoke of the significance of The Colorado Experiment.
To see more of Mike Mentzer check out these videos by Wayne Gallasch of GMV:
MIKE & RAY MENTZER TRIPLE PACK DVD SET (V-209SP-DVD) tinyurl.com/ym4...
MIKE & RAY MENTZER - GYM WORKOUT DOWNLOAD (V-121) tinyurl.com/2ua...
MIKE MENTZER - FINAL CHAPTER DOWNLOAD (V-208) tinyurl.com/yc4...
There was recently a big newer generation bodybuilder who alluded to this. He was big big but he said, "just think how big I would have been if I took more days off." Interesting. I've been training for 20 years now (I'm 37) And I have learned about how my own body responds. I will say this, if my body weight plateaus for a couple weeks I just take a few days of rest and I start gaining weight immediately. It's totally counterintuitive. Especially for gym addicts like myself. More is not always better.
Thanks for your post.
Exactly! This is something lot of gym goers refuse to accept. Rest / regular time off is crucial to get past the plateau.
Noticed this when I was in very high intensity training. Sometimes, taking a week or two off completely is your best path to progress.
I gained 60 pounds in a year just working out a couple days a week. Funny enough I live in Colorado. Must be the weed...
As I age, I'm always trying to figure on how LITTLE lifting I can do and ...at least...maintain where I am at now.
At what point does atrophy begin? 5 days of being sedentary? 15?
How infrequently can I lift on a given body segment?
Regardless, it's good to know that rest is a good thing!
An important point to consider was that Casey was re-gaining muscle that he had once built; which is easier than gaining muscle in the first instance.
And juiced to the gills.
True
You're missing the point of this video
As if Arnold was not. Watch the whole video before commenting
@@ΜαριοςΜπομπαι I know Arnold was re-gaining muscle too. i'm a big fan of Mentzer. My comment was to suggest that people should not expect such incredible results.
I went to see Dave Draper and Boyer Coe at a local gym with my lifting partner back in 1973. (Coe won the Mr. Universe the next night with Dave guest posing) My friend asks Draper how long he trains for. Dave answers, "An hour. Hour and a half." So my friend goes ballistic, "But Arnold trains for 3 and a half hours!!" Dave looks at him, pauses and then says, "Kid . . . you've been reading those magazines too long."
The point being, you can't believe everything you read.
Yeah pumping iron was basically a movie doco,those guys trained 3 days a week for 95% of the year and 7/12 weeks before the Olympia they upped the drugs and went hardcore. They also enjoyed carbs dessert's and put icecream in there protein shakes. These guys who get upset when they hear people training less then 6 days a week x3 hours are so misguided
Good memory mate, i wish you and your friend have good health, bless you
Arnold spent 6 hours/day in the gym: 1 hour working out and 5 hours bullsh*tting about his competition.
Including this comment
@GENETIC BEAST What a fool believes he sees. The wise man has the power to reason a way. I was a pro baseball player (now a physics professor) looking for strength more so than size. What's your excuse?
This is so awesome. I love the re-emergence of love for Mike Mentzer. I was really into Mike Mentzer’s ideas about 8 years ago, and there was nowhere near this amount of Mike mentzer content on UA-cam. I’ve never heard this lecture before
Casey wasn’t taking steroids? “it’s on record”……..don’t forget that. 😂🤣
He probably meant that he wasn't taking any during the experiment but it is common sense that the stuff he took while he was competing helped gain that amount of muscle mass. Still an outstanding result I find.
Who was not?
I'm pretty sure Mike restated in the Mentzer tapes that he was infact on steroids
"...that's hard to believe..." added Mr. Mentzer. Mike Mentzer was, and perhaps still remains the only one competitive athlete who was very frank and outspoken about the use of anabolic steroids, the merits and demerits of taking them, and always suggested to take them under guidance of qualified medical professional even in the era when it was almost unknown even to the majority of the medical sciences communities other than endocrinology.
Yes Mike speculated that Casey was on steroids during this experiment.
It is well-known that Arthur Jones "incentivized" Casey to get down to his lowest weight possible before the Experiment. He stopped training, went off the gear, and reduced his calories significantly. All of those factors account for huge losses. In contrast, Arnold was only about 15 lbs off his peak after Stay Hungry. Had they kept the Colorado Experiment going, I doubt we would've seen anything more than minuscule progress from Casey. Basically, both cases were situations of two bodybuilders going from an artificially low bodyweight, back to their peak conditions. The man who is further off his peak will gain much more mass back at a much faster rate. In this case that man was Casey
Also I straight do not believe that casey gained 65 lbs of muscle in one month. That's BS
Ohhhhh yaaaaa, 63 pounds in one month.... TOTAL BS !!!!!
And NO ROIDS!!!!!! Do people really believe this???????
@@ryangoff4813 Casey was taking "Joe Weiders Anabolic Muscle Packs"
Casey was injured prior smh
Agreed. Of that 65 lbs, I'd bet 72% of that is water weight. You can tell this is true just by looking at his "after" picture. He's not full and defined with muscle, he looks inflated with water.
Thanks for these videos John. HIT is still the most productive way of training I've found for both myself and my clients over the past 35 years.
HITT unfortunately will increase chances overtime of rhabdomyolysis.
@@joesmith-th3jq we're not talk HITT here though.
@@strongforlife4352 yup ! Just HIT !! Go hard in the gym , get in and get out !
@Esapp_18 that’s why it’s so emphasized to warm up well so that doesn’t happen
Post physique
Mike later stated that he believed Casey was on steroids for the Colorado experiment. It certainly didn't look like 60lbs of muscle gained. Also, it looked like he added bodyfat. Big mass difference for sure, however. There are other before and after photos of Casey from the late 70's, perhaps training for a contest. It simply looked like a guy with great genetics pre and post cycle. Arnold's son Joseph gives a good indication of Arnold's potential as a natural.
Of course casy used dianabol...listen...I've used dianabol...I built more muscle in three months as a normal natural trainer would build in a lifetime...a lifetime....they work big time
@@richardlawson6787 wild
@@richardlawson6787 Casey was taking "Joe Weiders Anabolic Muscle Packs"
*
Everyone is on anabolics...
Thanks again. I do have to disagree with Mike on one part of the video. I believe it is completely impossible for Casey to have put on that amount of muscle in that short of time without steroids. I think that Mike probably would agree with me but couldn't come out and say steroids were used though. Even with steroids, that is absolutely incredible. There are men on steroids who train for years without putting on 60 pounds of muscle.
Adam,
In spite of what Jones said, Mike told me that Casey was at least using Dbol during the "experiment," if not more.
Agree. From what I have gleaned from these videos, MM was never natural, not even as a teenager. He was delusional and obsessed with making his body into something it was not intended to be, and died very young. He competed with Arnold, and it killed him. Such a wasted life. He was studying to be a doctor at one point. What a better impact on society that would have been, instead of pushing lies and deception on young men for profit.
100%
@@BrisLS1 Any professional body builder is doing that. They are all on steroids. I don't think he was pushing lies on anyone. He talked about his steroid use, and how body builders used them. He had a theory on building muscle, and told things like he saw them.
@@RickySpanish12344 And he appeared in Muscle Fitness magazine, wrote tons of articles, probably a book, not mentioning drugs when telling us all “you can do one set per body part” and all that, back in the 1980’s. Not saying he was the only user, but everybody else at least trained for hours a day. And most of those big men from back then are alive today, because they got realistic. Even Dorian Yates still giving interviews now, and not trying to sell bogus training ideas or claiming to have invented some magic rep count.
Thanks for posting this John. It brings back memories of being trained by Mike and speaking to him. And what a great influence he was to me as a young man
You were trained by Mike Mentzer? 🤨
@@themacocko6311 I met Mike at a seminar at Zinn's gym in Queens in 1980 when I was 18. Then trained with him in Gold's gym in California in 1991 for 4 sessions then again in 1993 and 1996 each time for 4 session over the course of 2 weeks each time. And talked with him numerous times by phone.
@@masterblaster3422 sir please say honestly does mike mentzer hit is the best effective way to gain muscles ?
@Fancut no it isn't. Its the most time efficient but terrible for longevity because of injury risk, wear and tear on the joints and tendons much faster than volume training. I like to refer to Jay and Ronnie as extreme examples. One looked and performed better but Jay can still lift weights at 50+ years old and Ronnie can't even walk anymore.
@@TheZgriffin that’s just downright not true, any form of weight lifting will strengthen your joints and there is absolutely 0 evidence of high intensity training causing more “wear and tear”. Ronnie cant walk because he ignored his existing injuries and would use mainly free weights while on a shit ton of gear which increases risk of injury too. Please stop spreading blatant misinformation thanks.
Thanks for posting this-great to hear some classics from Mike.
You're welcome!
Beautifully documented and the way mike puts it all together is simply magical. Its crazy people deny this science mike worked so hard to perfect. It saddens me tbh i wish i met mike
I once put on 40lbs of pure muscle exercising 5 minutes/month (ultra high intensity) for two weeks, which I think is good for a vegan.
Are you related to *Amber Heard* by any chance..?
Nice. So you just worked out for 2.5 minutes and gained 40lbs of pure muscle
lmao stop lying you herbivore
Gaining 63 lbs in one month doesn't just come from training. Casey was using drugs, as well. There's no way he was a natural bodybuilder gaining this much muscle. Mike Mentzer isn't telling the whole story. He wants to show that short, high intensity workouts are superior. But his example is skewed. Casey had drugs on his side and not just a method of training.
Even with drugs it's amazing achievement
Exactly, that's what I keep saying, there are no miracles naturally and in such a short time! They are trying to fool those who don't know and are new or unexpected. The human body has a limit after, only with drugs. Although Arnold was a great bodybuilder he also took drugs (steroids) and all these results in such a short time in the effect of training, is only 20 % the other 80% comes from the drugs. Because it is only them that give strength in intensity = more muscle. There is no such thing as miraculous results in such a short time without steroids. They can even come up with really good workouts but in such a short time... forget it.
Yeah...it is like all of the guys who think that they can claim to be natural... as long as their test dose is under a gram a week. Or maybe Mentzer and the people conducting this study didn't count testosterone as a steroid. Maybe he was taking some absurd dosage of test like 10G's a week.....but since it is something our bodies produce, they don't count it as a 'steroid'. So maybe Casey took lots of test.....but no Dbol, parabolin, anadrol...etc. hehe Actually, I don't know if parabolin was even a thing at that period. I forget my 'gear history'.
Also what he gained was mass he previously had.
What top of the line pro bodybuilder isnt on drugs? You got this duds eating pizza and burgers with single digits bf.
This story gets trotted out every once in awhile. I knew Mike, and had trained at Nautilus in Deland before Jones sold the company. Casey had been working on an oil rig, got hurt, was hospitalized and got down to this low bodyweight. Jones got hold of him, filled him with everything imaginable, and he gains back prior muscle mass. Totally misleading.
should tell Tim Ferris, who made no mention of his injury or supplements provided.
That's how before and after pics are made..take a jacked guy, let him gain fat and lose muscle, then restore the physique.
If you listen, MM says CV was underweight at the beginning of the CE; that he gained back muscle he previously had. Not misleading.
Even so, just looking at the picture theres no way thats 63lbs of muscle.
Dude, did you even watch the video? 2:25 he clearly said that. The whole point was to compare it with arnolds technique, which simply wasnt effectiv.
I don't think there has ever been a greater physique than Arnold's 1974 Mr. Olympia form. He looked out of this world !
Zane
Mike
Mentzer is ALWAYS welcome..
Wow, crazy. Love these gems you post
Recovery is just as important if not more important than training stimulus. This is extremely significant knowledge in my humble opinion. Superb video.
Thanks, Leslie.
I had a trainer put me through a pre-exhaust leg workout like Mentzer spoke about in 1979 when I was 18. OMG!. It was so intense for a short period. , that I wobbled a cross the floor to get to the next machine. I actually got sick in the stomach, it was the hardest painful workout I ever experienced! I never had a workout like that since, it would actual make you dread to go through that again. It that didn't stimulate some muscle grow, nothing will.
What was the training
So did you gain 63 pounds in 3 mnths?
@@amateurwave3593 Look up pre-exhaust training. You train same muscle with 2 exercise , no rest and extreme negatives contractions. When you can't possibly go anymore a little help from your training partner or less weight., until you can't do another rep. Torture!!
Only if your juice 'n and put on some fat , other wise no way!
@@davidwirth2716 i don't know if i believe it even with juicing.
John since I got aware about HIT, mentzer , yates , I started HIt , I put up around 15lbs of muscle around a month
Congratulations, Akshay! Thanks for your post.
Although a big fan of Mike Mentzer, to say that Casey wasn't using steroids during Colorado experiment is what makes this "story" complete BS.
Casey said himself he wasn't using steroids until the end of his life. Most recently in an interview with Tim ferris for the 4 hour body. Why would he lie? He admits to using steroids at other times, so that wouldnt make any sense
@Moniemon7 - people lie for all kinds of reasons. To hear Joe Weider tell it Olympia contests were "drug tested" and he was a lying sack of crap.
I imagine Viator wanted to maintain the mystique. Does it make any sense that he got back to a size he achieved by juicing without juicing? I don't care what he claimed - until someone shows a series of credibly verified tests taken throughout the experiment that prove he wasn't juicing - he was juicing.
@@Moniemon7 Biggest controversy of Colorado Experiment was denial of steroid use... had they admitted their use, what little credibility the experiment had would have went out the window and we wouldn't be still discussing it 50 years later... and the Arthur Jones "Nautilus" era might not have ever happened.
ua-cam.com/video/2y4pAeDBF-0/v-deo.html
That was in a time, when people had to hide the truth about bodybuilding drug use.
@@obbzerver excellent point!
Sound a lot like some Dbol and Deca weight to me. Back in college we took some Dbol and put on 40lbs in a month eating pizza and wings, training like animals. Arnold put on weight and then cut down for a show. Casey was not in show conditioning in that last pic.
These are indeed, pearls of wisdom by one of the smartest minds from Golden era of bodybuilding.. I appreciate your work to help spread pure wisdom ❤
Awesome thank you John this is beautiful
No problem. Glad you liked it.
bro was so ahead of his time to conduct this research and make this contention
A nice conversational point by Mike but its helpfull to remember the first law of scientific experiment, only change one variable at a time.
In this case every variable was probably being changed. Both were training differently for different time periods and its safe to say that both were using different PEDs in different quantities.
Finally eash body will react differently to even the same PEDs, exercise and food and rest
There are so many variables that no firm conclusion can be established
Approach is typical for "bodybuilding bullshit science".
I fell down the stairs and hit my head almist broke my neck was in bed for 7 days came across mike mentzer training videos ..not even 2 months later Monday upper wensdsy mid and Friday lower eating super healthy ... I gained 23 lbs pure muscle if not more... because fat that converted to muscle..my 2 brothers can't belive how much I grew in 7 weeks my older brother was kikr I gotta go to the gym lol ..
Thanks for the Videos and Countless Wisdom you're sharing!
I recently went through a rehab program for (oh dear lord!) substance abuse. The program was eight weeks long and basically we went to classes, group therapy sessions, the gym five days a week, ate high calorie diets and slept every day. That was our daily and weekly norm for the duration of the program. I weighed 186 upon entering the program and weighed 224 the day before I left. That's 38 pounds of bodyweight gained in only 60 days. Not all of it was purely lean muscle but a good deal of it surely was. Muscle memory played a key role as I'd been there before as a younger man and amateur bodybuilder. I hadn't so much as sniffed a gym or set of weights for five years prior to entering this program and was in pretty bad shape for obvious reasons. I trained for four days out of the five and my workouts lasted no more than an hour - training the entire body once per week during that four day cycle (HIT). I can say unequivocally that no steroids or any other anabolic substances were used because of the nature.of the program; and the fact we were all tested for drugs randomly one day - every week. I never claimed to have above average genetics and don't but, Casey did. He had already been there before and his muscles remembered and responded accordingly during the experiment. By the way and for what it's worth, I was 60 years old when I went through rehab and conducted my own Colorado Experiment. I guess you're never too old to grow!
Great job on the cleanup and rebuilding, and thanks for posting. I'm 59 and employ this training and am the biggest, strongest, and best condition of my life. I'm 5-8, 205 and can still also sprint like an antelope. I even came back fast from a brutal weight loss from Corona in H2 of 2021. HIT brought me back amazingly fast. The first 3 weeks of my comeback I trained conventionally and didn't regain much other than a physique "outline" but very little bulk. Feeling better, more energetic, and more ready after those 3 weeks, the next 2 weeks I went full blast on HIT and the rest of it all came back in just 2 weeks!! Count me as a staunch believer in this method.
Say honestly is hit best way to gain muscle fast ??
@@fancut2391 Yes. Without a doubt. It's as simple as science vs myth. Mike Mentzer said many things that stuck with me over my life time, but the one thing he said that still stands out today (paraphrase): 'You can work out hard or you can work out long but you can't do both. It's physically impossible.' Look at the musculature of Olympic sprinters compared to long distance marathon runners for example. :)
@@MrDCMiami Yes. Give the body (and muscles) the stimulation it needs through HIT, feed the body all the nutrients it needs and get plenty of sleep. That is all that is required to stimulate muscular cell growth.
I'm 62 and I can still get it up...
...I just can't get it in!
Damn few have been able to come close to matching Viator’s results with that training methodology. Modern bodybuilders are aware that training excessively does more harm than good, but still the vast majority of champions train for a lot longer than Viator did in this experiment.
Additionally, I question the testing method (radio isotope) by which they judged he lost 17 lbs of bodyfat during 28 days. That's 0.6 lbs of bodyfat per day, requiring 2489 calories per day of fat burning. Something isn't right with that. Nor does he look like he lost 17 lbs of bodyfat.
As for, "he didn't take steroids, that's hard to believe...". Yes, that is hard to believe. In fact, I don't believe it.
I was also thinking similar to what you wrote. A retired bodybuilder/ weightlifter that I am (I never turned pro. ), This had me saying huh?!?!?!
As a former bodybuilder/ weightlifter (I never turned pro. ), this had me scratching my head and saying huh?!?!?!
Yeah, the before pic doesn’t even look like he has 17 pounds of bodyfat to spare. It still is a great example of how an ideal amount of training is superior to the old volume training ideas that Arnold used to push about working out 4 hours a day 6 days a week lmaoo
This is still insanely impressive even with steroids. Wasn't even a full month allegedly. Just 28 days and he turns into the hulk. Steroids make it more believable, but even then...I'm at a loss for words.
adipocytes don't purely contain fat, they are 18% water and there are many solutes in the lipids and water within the cell. You are assuming 100% of the weight that was lost from the cell was fat which it was not. When fatty acids are consumed by the cell or expelled to be consumed by other cells, then the solutes dissolved in that will be expelled to and some water and its solutes to maintain homeostasis of the ratio of lipid, water, and solutes within the cytoplasm of the adipocyte. The same is true when glycogen is used from the muscle or liver cell, 4 grams of water are expelled for every gram of glycogen used.
Idk if he mentions it at all later in the seminar, but if Arnold was going on and off cycle, hormone production probably played a big role.
Its not just Hard Work and recovery that led to this mans exponential growth, he gained 46 lbs in under a month so he was clearly eating good.
No doubt high intesity training is the most eficient way of training for volume.
If the muscle is for show, there is no other way to go.
Mike was very intelligent. He was years ahead of his time. His theory makes total sense and works. It’s worked for me and is my favorite way to train. Wish I learned this HIT style one set to failure sooner.
I'm in the sock after knowing this experiment is that even possible, I'm so lucky because I found this research I'm going to take the rest 2 to 3 weeks from the gym and am excited to do this experiment on myself & wanna follow mark mentzer workout😊
How's it going?
Casey later went on to weight 245 pounds in the early 80's. One of the first true mass monsters, along with Bertil Fox and Tim Belknap.
He had big bones and clearly was a genetic freak. Yates was also a mass monster and what do they have in common? Extremely thick wrists and all over bone density.
Mentzer and Yates are absolutely correct. Mentzer always pointed out the genetic component which is vital. One simple aspect is that most people are unable to train as they did, training to complete failure, most cannot push to that accomplishment ( true failure )
Most people are unable to train as they did, because Most people don't use tons of anabolic drugs like they do, When you use anabolic drugs you can train harder and longer, Without having to worry about over training, The funny and hypocritical thing is that these guys never talk about the anabolic drugs they use, Just look at Dorian Yates, He looks like he's never trained in his life.
You believe in Santa too?
@Old Skool Bodybuilding Routines Look I can agree with your point on pyramid training, but it is not completely true. When people talk about pyramid training it is building up to a certain weight while challenging yourself. When Yates and Mentzer build up to a certain weight, they do it as a "warm-up" and it doesn't affect their performance of their last set.
In a pyramid scheme every set counts, so it is not a warm-up but just a variation of straight set training.
They can physically do it but not mentally. Most people don't try hard at anything at all.
Glycogen and water did not exist in the 70's apparently, and 12% body fat was actually 2.5%, who knew.
Fantastic thanks for posting ,
Is there anywhere we can see the results of the other participants? I would love to see the stats and exact training each of them went through.
Around 12 total participants, almost all gained 12+ lbs muscle in between 3 and 12 weeks
and training routine?
I like Casey but at the end of the experiment he wasn't ready to step up on the stage when Arnold was.
way fatter
We sure miss you Mike..
Yeah, imagine all the lies he could spread if he were still here.
@@themacocko6311 😂😂😂😂 well, you can make up for him by spreading hate..
Great stuff if you get any more of these please post them
Maaan, you have some good material here, wow!
Glad you think so!
I've seen many videos of mentzer cleaning less is more, but i just can't get myself to oblige. Maybe one day I'll give it a shot
I can't believe how people who should know better still think that Casey lost 17 lbs of fat when his face is clearly fuller in the AFTER photo. Look how lean his is in the BEFORE pic. Where did those 17 lbs of fat come from? Did he make amazing gains in 28 days? Yes, of course he did. Was it 63 lbs.? No way. And those who still say he did are just "selling it" in my view. By the way, top powerlifters routinely lose and gain 20 plus pounds in a couple days to compete in a lighter weight class. That must have been some super duper HIT workout they followed.
Correct assessment. Obviously their body scans weren't accurate and they were probably trying to tailor the conclusions to some desired outcome, for whatever reason
Yea, I agree ...he probably came in very depleted and the HIT along with increase diet contributed to I would guess 25-30 lbs of muscle...which is still great but not quite as explained...however, this experiment does have the best data to support the claims
It's clear from the contrast difference in the photos they were trying to sell a conclusion from the start.
What!? So he gain like what, 63lbs of muscle in 1 month? WTF! Ya right, ok then.
with muscle memory its possible. I've experienced extremely rapid regrowth of previous muscle after taking a long lay off.
As intelligent and intuitive as Mike was regarding the physiology of bodybuilding, there is one glaring contrast between the two situations in this comparison: Arnold had to be in contest shape at the end of his regimen. That isn't to take away from Mike's point that training with the requisite intensity and allowing sufficient rest is unbelievably productive when it comes to stimulating muscular growth. That wasn't necessarily concern #1 for Arnold, and he was restricting his calories from day 1 of his training program.
That said, I know how unbelievably productive such training can be. During a four-week period in the summer 2000, I deadlifted one week and full squatted the next week, throwing in pressing movements, rows, calf raises, and a couple other lifts a few times. I was 6'4, 225 in clothes and coming off a long layoff from training. The first week, I deadlifted 440 for 3 reps, and then full squatted 315 for 3 reps the next week. In my second cycle, I deadlifted 460 for 5 reps and full squatted 345 for 4 reps. I can't recall where my bench started, but I think I did 275 for 4 reps during my second cycle. I had never gained like this before, but as usual, it all came to a crashing halt after the second cycle due to reinjuring my back trying to shoehorn my frame inside some of the confined spaces at work. I was more than a little dejected it came to an end, because it was one of only two summers I had off during college.
By spring 2001, I was 245 lbs and had not trained much since that time, so I figure a lot of those gains were from that four-week period.
Its worth noting that rest periods between workouts are not written in stone. If you still feel tired, take an extra day. If you feel like a million, workout a day earlier. Stress, diet, sleep and life in general make our recovery periods fluctuate.
Mike Mentzer - a hero. Too bad he is gone.
@@bobbywalker8337 High Intensity Training. You don't spend hours in the gym. Train very, very hard for short periods. Did you listen to his lectures or see his methods? Intelligent and well spoken.
@@bobbywalker8337 i had the complete opposite experience. I made huge gains with HIT as opposed to volume training.
I want to hear about the other participants in the experiment who weren't genetic superiors. What were the results for the normies?
I agree. I have never found any other stories, articles or information on the other participants that were mentioned in the beginning of this video? And that’s for more than 20 years of looking! I’m no scholar and get most of my information like the rest of the world through articles and videos, but I find it suspicious that nothing”mainstream” has ever been presented regarding any other participants in this experiment.
One would think it would be these results that would have the greatest meaning to the general public.
The whole CE is BS that 's why you won't find anything.
I’m going to try it . I’ve recently lost around 10lbs of fat. I’m also a trainer. So I am Going to experiment on myself. I’m drug free. And currently under calorie. When I cut down to 175 by mid next month I’m going to begin. I have mike she at duty system planned out. 3-4 days between workouts. After so much high volume training I am looking forward to trying it.
@@Gym_firebrand so its been 10 months mate, did you do it? what are the results?
I remember reading the article about Casey Viator in a mag. Must have been over 40 years ago. I even knew Mike was going to say he gained 46lbs! I didn't remember the bit about him losing 17lbs of fat. That always stuck in my head that you can regain lost muscle quickly. I was too young to understand the different types of training though. I just followed what was in the mags. Train each bodypart twice a week. I've done HIT and all sorts. At my age now, I've discovered that a two on one off works better for me. I keep the reps reasonably high and try and go to failure for at least one set. I am still making gains and I'm just as strong as I ever was. Walking up the stairs in my gym to the machines gets me out of breath now though :-)
Gotta do cardio
@@ruan441 I wouldn't call it cardio at my age! More like just elevating the heart a little bit! Heart Elevation. Yeah, that's what we should call it when we're not spring chickens anymore!
I don't even believe Ronnie Coleman could gain 63 lbs of muscle in a single 30 day span. The human body is not capable of adding that much flesh in such a short amount of time. So, Casey's numbers are off and he had to have been holding water, food, some new added muscle yes (possibly regaining what he had lost). But the 63 lbs sounds like on eof those outrageous claims you'd read about in the old muscle mags to sell some new powder come on...
Good, no, GREAT point. Subtract fat loss from the numbers does not mean that the entire gain was muscle. Water weight gain was not factored in, fecal weight gain, etc. Impressive, but by modern standards, the measurements were too crude to make such claims.
@@raymondfarinas3169 I'm surprised Mentzer even went on about such BS like this he seems logical and well read but hearing this from him makes me rethink my opinion of him
Obviously we realized long ago that the Colorado experiment was not what it appeared to be - as is mentioned here, Viator stopped training and juicing for a period of time, got injured, nearly died from an allergic reaction to medication for the injury, then further starved himself down for the experiment once he was healthy enough to train again. And of course some have said he would be paid generously for every pound he would gain in the experiment.
He was clearly not anywhere near < 3% bodyfat at the end - he didn't even have ab definition after 28 days. He was very "watery", and definitely had that d-bol "look". I am not at all confident in the reported alleged bodyfat loss and bodyfat percentage result at the end.
Even if there was a guy shadowing him all day every day and all night to rat him out if he was seen taking roids or doing more weight training (doubtful), I'm sure there were at least a few moments here and there every day when Viator could have popped a handful of d-bol and perhaps even injected himself with gear he may have hidden in his personal effects. I doubt the guy would have been in the bathroom with him when he showered/shaved/sh1t, etc.
Also, it is highly unlikely that a person would be able to get back to their previous juiced-up muscular bodyweight if they were not once again juicing. And certainly not in 4 weeks.
As for the comparison of Casey's situation to Arnold training for the Olympia after losing a fair amount of weight, the two situations are not the same. As others have pointed out, Arnold was not trying to pile on raw bodyweight in the months leading up to the Olympia. He was training and dieting for the upcoming contest where he would need to be ripped - not doing an offseason bulk to try to get up to 270.
I am more curious as to why Arnold never got back to even that 1975 lean mass level in 1980. I realize that he walked away from competitive bodybuilding after that 1975 Olympia and focused on acting over the next several years, but he just didn't look anything like the Arnold of 5-6 years earlier when he competed again (and won) in 1980. My best guess is that he probably didn't use certain compounds in 1980 that he had used in the earlier years, and probably used lower dosages (of whatever he did use again in 1980) than he had used 5-6 years earlier. The only other explanation I can think of is that perhaps he was using stimulants in 1980 - IDK.
Thanks for posting this , and other videos. Much appreciated.. never heard Mike talk when he was younger.
That is because he didn't. He was paid to be exclusive to Weider.
Casey was so sauced up he was pissing pure testosterone.
yup 😁
FYI: we all have to experiment, continually, with ourselves to determine our volume landmarks (see Mike Israetel/Renaissance Periodization) to optimize our current training program.
This was an awesome video
Don't forget the 50mg of Anadrol, 50mg of Dianabol, 200mg of Testosterone, and 200mg of deca
I read an article in an old muscle magazine it was back in the 80's. The article was focusing on what they called the rubberband effect. Meaning that people who worked out early in life by the time they got in their 50's they would have the ability to gain both in strength and mass very easily. I could only speak for myself at 58 years old, I feel I wasted a lot of time and effort weighing my food counting calories and reps. There also was a theory that is came across that we should not even do heavy weight lifting until after the age of 25 years old so as allowing our bones to completely develop. Wish I had known that then I may have grew taller.
Im 25 years old, never did any exercise before..Currently im goin to the gym, will i grow taller ?
@@mewe1023 No most likely not men stop growing between 18 and 23 on average you can put on muscle mass if you do it correctly.
I remember reading years ago in an article in some muscle magazine that Casey Viator was "not drug free and literally force fed during that experiment"..
Much of the muscle mass Viator gained was mass he lost due to injury. Still an impressive experiment.
Most of the ”mass” was water retention cause of the PED use. Massive mass gains in short time periods are not natural.
@@its-amestarlord You are ignorant about the study and the conditions before the study. And likely just ignorant in general.
The difference is Arnold was training and cutting for Mr. Olympia contest. Casey was not.
Jerry Brainum tells a story that he met Casey years latter and Casey admitted to Jerry that he would sneak of to the gym at mid-night and do high volume workouts. Casey won the Mr America at 19 doing high volume workouts. Mike you had a whole year of training for the 1980 Mr Olympia, why did Arnold beat you and why was he bigger than you in 7 weeks of training? People don't know this but Arnold torn a rotator cuff one month before the Mr Olympia and had to take cortisol to train. He was actually in better shape a month before the competition. Samir tells this story.
I have found that changing up your workout seems to be the best. I have had the most success doing super sets with opposing muscle groups.
I do chest exercises and in between I work out my biceps. Back day, I do back exercises and work out my triceps. This also keeps your heart rate and pump going.....and I dont want to debate anyone on a more correct or accurate way to isolate the movements, really, unless I am competing or something, that means nothing anyhow, functional strength and looking good is what I am going for lol. Do a set of chest presses, do a set of bicep curls. Go back and forth immediately for the amount of sets that you have and then get your rest. Lat pull downs and then tri extensions immediately.
It hits your muscles hard, you can really pack in a good and complete workout and honestly, if you have enough energy, you could do it later. Conditioning your central nervous system and your mind to pick up weights randomly and move them around is just as essential as sitting in the gym for a hours. I have dumbbells that I keep in places at home so when I have a minute, I can do sets.
Just enough effective time under tension vs overkill and self defeating methods. It may feel right to train and train and train... but thats just feelings.
Viator was not on steroids...yeah right...they ALL were....in mid 70's I got to talk to Mentzer after a show with couple other people. he said he had been on steroids 7 years straight and would stack them before a contest. Of course 99.9% of us could do the same steroids and not look anything like Viator or Mentzer but no one comes anywhere close to them without....
Wowwwww this was great 👍
I see people in the gym thinking they have to be at the gym for more than an hour and a half. I used to be that way. Now, my workouts are only about 45 minutes to and hour sometimes consisting of 10-15 minutes of posing. Something I tell the people I see who think working out for 2+ hours is the wave is if you’re pushing yourself to your limits in the gym just go ahead and try keeping your pump for 2+
Hours. If you’re REALLY putting in the work you shouldn’t be able to last more than 1.5 hours in there and that’s pushing it.
Can you tell me your workout regime..Im new to gym, it will be helpful for me, Thanks..!.
Supposedly Casey was also only 2.7% body fat at the study conclusion. Bullshit.
We had that poster in my high school football locker room. There I was lifting and eating peanutbutter sandwiches like a fiend, and left feeling like a complete loser because I couldnt gain three lbs. of muscle.
haha " like a fiend" ;D
Small thing everyone might want to consider before setting this as "possible" or "achievable". Arthur Jones was selling Nautilus gym equipment and this so called "experiment" was done to show it efficacy.
It's very hard to believe, be it muscle memory, substance induced growth that the human body can synthetize this amount of tissue.
Spot on mate, though "very hard to believe" doesn't do this justice - it's total BS, plain and simple - Mentzer was full of it
the HIT philosophy is still more than legit even today, especially if we are speaking efficency for people, that are really short on time, but still want to have killer workouts with the best results possible for time spent.
the single set (or very low set, under 10 a week) theory was since disproven to be as or more effective than multiple set workout sessions, but the point, that you don't have to spend 3 hours a day in the gym 5 days a week to get real results has been successfully challenged, you can get to an excellent personal performance with 20-25 sets per muscle group a week; if you have discipline with the food intake, a good sleep cycle, enough rest and the highest intensity youcan give, some people would be surprised, where they could get to in just 2-3 years time
The single set method has not been disproven: ua-cam.com/video/ZD9-TGVLJ3Q/v-deo.htmlsi=zyTFNGCe45dWR_Q7
Damn Mike was really amazing. He was definitely misunderstood during his time. Much like Thomas Edison was during his time and now people after his life recognize the monumental achievement he accomplished. I'm willing to say Mike Mentzer is the same way
I also believe that height and body structure takes precedence. Its alot harder for a taller guy.
That only matters if it's new gains. Arnold's training methods were flawed with too much volume and not enough rest. He was trying to regain muscle he had already built.
This is interesting, but I think Mr. Viator's gains are utterly extraordinary, and certainly well beyond what can be expected from normal people. Interesting nonetheless.
Arnold trains like a child goin to the gym for the gym for the first time 😂
Muscle regain ("Muscle Memory") is a "heck of a drug" as they say
If one set is better than two , then one rep is better than 10 or 2 ..which is why i train one repetition for each exercise consisting of Squat , Deadlift , chin up, parrallel dip , its takes me no more than 5 minutes of training once per week .as i get stronger i shall cut back the amount of time i train to once every 9 days , then again once every 2 weeks .
This is important: even if , as accused, Casey was on steroids; even if, as accused, Casey was sneaking out & doing traditional volume training on his own, he still convincingly outstripped Arnold's gains, while Arnold was doing volume training, on steroids. So what was the difference? I think we all know.
An interesting take. Thanks for your post.
i dont believe that casey was natty gaining all that mass back but its still an incredible achievement.
You can see the Dbol bloat in his face lol.
@@mclovinthewalrus2375 its hard to tell, low quality pic and also your face natually bloats up when you gain such mass
@@agust8474 I do a lot of Dbol bro. i know what a Dbol bloat looks like.
🎯 Key Takeaways for quick navigation:
The Colorado *Experiment: In 1973, the exercise physiology department of Fort Collins University conducted an experiment to investigate how rapidly individuals could gain muscle in a high-intensity training program.*
Casey Viator's *Exceptional Results: Casey Viator, one of the participants, gained a staggering 63 pounds of muscle in just 28 days, averaging 30 minutes of training three days a week.*
Arnold Schwarzenegger's *Contrasting Approach: Arnold Schwarzenegger, another participant, trained for four months, spending 288 hours in the gym, and gained only 15 pounds of muscle.*
Possible Reasons *for the Discrepancy: The speaker attributes the difference in muscle gain to excessive training and insufficient recovery time for Arnold, despite his use of steroids.*
Key Takeaway: *The speaker emphasizes the importance of balancing training intensity with adequate recovery time to maximize muscle growth.*
Made with HARPA AI
Hey Arnold: You grow when you are resting and you breakdown when you're lifting.
I remember reading about this in a iron man magazine. Said his trainer had a loaded gun on him to make sure he gets those extra reps in.
Great points made here regarding training methods and the importance of training intensity / rest but:
1.) "Muscle mass" isn't the ONLY aspect to consider when evaluating the fitness gains achieved.
2.) Both test subjects were on GEAR without a doubt, you simply don't gain that kind of size without it.
3.) Yes "muscle memory" is a thing but the gains achieved here by Casey in 4 weeks is just insane, nobody should expect those gains without the aid gear.
Regardless, the main point (most effective training method) is very solid. To achieve the optimal results you MUST allow your body to recovery and when you train make the training worth while (it's not about the TIME spent in the gym but what are your actually DOING in the gym) You can spend 4+ hours in the gym but the guy who spends just 45 minutes or so could very likely be achieving much better results. Train "smarter" not "harder" isn't just a moto there's a TON of truth to it.
Idk man what if he actually wasn’t on steroids. Muscle memory is really intense, I’ve experienced a quick 1 month jump of 20lbs after losing it at a field training exercise. Also we don’t know his nutrition and sleep. I know you can’t tell from appearance if someone is on steroids but I think his size and physique is possible without
@@invisiblechicken1682 lol he 1000% was on steroids
I used to overtrain so bad thinking I was doing good but would get headaches, fatigue and just felt awful until i started training like Dorian rates
I’ve learned w HIT other factors are main key… I’ve slept 8 hours but at like 4am…= little Muscle growth. Toxic people =no growth… plus everything else..
But with HIT I realize you actually have to be more consistent with habits… otherwise you break yourself farther then you’ll end up recovering….
If I could go back I would do HIT. Do mewing. Get sunlight. Have an active ish job…. AND SLEEP WHEN WERE MEANT TO SLEEP. I would be lean and jacked rn
I like Mentzer, and I do agree that you can overtrain much easier than most think, but to say Casey gained all that muscle naturally is comical.
It may be. However, those who were there, from the participants, supervisors and physiologist, say otherwise. Since he was regaining previously held muscle mass and was extremely underweight prior to starting the experiment, it’s not out of the realm of possibility that he was able to regain the muscle mass that he previously held without drugs.
Consider the following:
Tim Ferris gained 34 pounds of muscle in one month using these principles (see: www.google.ca/amp/s/tim.blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/amp/) and a guy from Boise did a 60 day experiment and, while he didn’t start out underweight like Casey was (nor does he possess a champion bodybuilder’s genetics), his results were very impressive, including a 2.5” gain in arm circumference, a 3.5” gain in chest size and a 25 pound weight gain, with bodyfat increasing slightly from 13.8 to 14.2% (boiseexperiment.com/HeavyDuty/?p=2693). In both instances, they gained more muscle than Arnold did, but not as much as Casey. Micheal Petrella (and two other trainees, Mike Perilli, and Mike Marzanek) reproduced the Colorado Experiment (as Michael’s incredible gym has the majority of the machines that were used in the Colorado Experiment) and all got markedly stronger (one gained 14 pounds, another 12 pounds and the other 8 pounds: highintensitybusiness.com/315-mike-petrella-and-michael-perilli-does-stgs-colorado-experiment-create-new-opportunities-to-drive-client-results/ ). Again, none of them were underweight, as Casey was, when they began the experiment. So all of the gains represented building new size and strength.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE
It’s not possible. Once you get on gear your natural testosterone production shuts down and does not immediately start back up once discontinuing, if it even starts back up at all. If he were truly drug free, his testosterone wouldn’t be able to get high enough to build that much muscle regardless of whether or not he previously held that amount of muscle in the past.
@@philmcrackinnow if you say so. He had not competed for the better part of two years at the time of the experiment. He clearly was not on steroids prior to the experiment. And he had deliberately dieted down; that is, ate very little, was hospitalized for an industrial accident, and that inactivity lead to substantial muscle atrophy. Again, I don’t think it’s beyond the realm of possibility that he then trained super hard, ate a lot of food and regained muscle that he previously held. But let’s assume he took steroids. Mike’s point is that Arnold took steroids, so we’ll say that Casey took them as well. Both were genetic marvels. Both were regaining previously held muscle mass. Casey regained all of it in 28 days. Arnold was unable to regain all of his previous muscle mass despite training for four months. Mike’s point spoke to the only variable in this example, that is training volume and frequency. That’s what the video was about. When I spoke to the physiologist who conducted the experiment, he told me that Casey was not on steroids. The samples I provided of other people who gained new muscle mass training in a similar fashion also speaks to Mike’s point about training intensity and frequency. As neither you nor I were there, we are simply speculating. However, having worked in the bodybuilding industry for well over 30 years, I’ve known lots of bodybuilders who have gone off steroids, trained hard and were still huge. It does happen.
@@HEAVYDUTYCOLLEGE
I don’t agree regarding the steroid use. I’ve been bodybuilding and researching it for almost 20 years. I don’t believe someone can build that much muscle or build it that quickly unless they have an extremely rare myostatin deficiency. We’ll just have to agree to disagree on that.
I 100% agree that Arnold’s volume was too high and he was overtraining. The steroid use prevented what would have been extreme detrimental effects to a naturals hormone levels. The synthetic testosterone he injected kept his testosterone levels high enough to build some muscle. If Arnold had been natural and used that routine his SHBG and cortisol would have risen so high, and free test so low, that he wouldn’t have been able to recover and grow at all. If Arnold used the same gear and trained smarter, he would have gained much more size.
@@philmcrackinnow You raise good points. Interestingly enough, 14 years after the audio for this video was recorded Mike likewise had his doubts about the claims of Casey being steroid free. At the time, like myself, he spoke to the people that were present at the experiment and that was the only data that he could go on. Later, when he researched how much or how little muscle could be built while on a starvation diet, he concluded that the body was operating off its limited reserves so any growth while dieting would be limited. It was at this point that he re-analyzed the non-steroid claim, and based on his own judgment, rather than the opinions of those who went on record, indicated that he thought Casey was on steroids. Again, I wasn’t there, so I don’t know. All I’m doing is echoing other peoples’ opinions on the matter. But, I think there is a lesson to be drawn from the Colorado Experiment regarding volume and frequency, which is as Mike indicated. Apart from that, it’s anybody’s guess.
But how many Mr. Olympia titles did Casey win compared to Arnold?
Don't know don't care
Bravo John !
if we think the first guy wasn't on the sauce, the data set is incomplete.
It seems like most people won't have access to the equipment involved in many of these experiments. I wonder if intensity in just the basic movements (dumbbell bench presses, deadlift, pull-ups/push ups) would be sufficient to build a decent and attractive physique?
“New mass, old mass, whatever” damn right. Even with steroids and having experience, that’s still insane regardless lol
So this is it the Colorado experiment I read about this in Ellington darden Nautilus bodybuilding book. The comparison between Casey & Arnold training is that Casey trained harder, brief & have time to recover. While on Arnold he trained long, daily & thus does not give his muscle to recover.
It's been proved many times by those who trained with Arnold that his boast of training 4 or 5 hours per days is simply not true.
Wish I saw this when I was younger. I would have saved so much time and money. Spent HOURS in the gym when I was younger. Never realized maybe that's why I couldn't make any gains.
I was half-expecting Mentzer to talk about Nikola Tesla, lol
So basically dont over train.
Let your muscles rest
put casey and arnold together on stage and tell me the result
Put Serge Nubret and Sergio Oliva on stage and tell me the results... oh wait they both got banned from the IFBB!