Avalanche should probably lose a point because it has a total dog tier inventory size stat. It holds 270 max reserves compared to 348 for Commemoration. (check Mossy’s inventory sheet for more data) Ammo availability is definitely good nowadays but holding more than 20% less ammo at max is notable.
A really cool synergy on the Strand LMG with Tricorne is with Mindspun Invocation on Warlock. The Strand suspend bursts count as grenade damage which can proc Tricorn x2 if the suspend burst kills an add. This can be combined with Verity's Brow to increase the damage of the suspend burst to give a really solid add clear loop.
It also works really well with the newest hunter exotic moth gauntlets since the moths count as a grenade and you get 3 grenades for some reason when combining them with the strand class
@@zachcunningham9054 A hunter aspect gives an extra grenade charge. That said, the hunter aspects for strand RN are really good so it's kinda hard to justify the extra grenade charge on mothkeepers imo.
I'm so glad you're doing the heavy weapons too, not because I don't know what I want or what is good with heavy weapons, but just because I love to hear your insight. There's always something to learn from you it feels like.
I kinda get, that chain of command is lacking perk diversity and also is a stasis machine gun, so it doesn’t have the benefit of destroying elemental shields. But demo ad junkie is literally the roll u use corrective measure for, so I think it deserves atleast a spot in the B-Tier
@@TheAegisRelicJust a suggestion but as far as awarding points for perks you might want to consider only awarding points for the best in slot perk. If there’s multiple that are viable then points for each one but if there’s a single roll on a weapon that’s objectively the best pairing then those being the contributing factor to the overall score would be more representative. An additional point or two as a diversity bonus for a weapon with a lot of viable perks could be a substitute so versatile weapons aren’t undervalued.
One for all is much better than adrenaline junkie . In any situation that you can get adrenaline junkie you can also proc one for all with less trouble and you don't need final blows wich makes it much more consistent in group content .
For anyone keen to try it out: I feel that Recurrent Impact's Subsistence + Headstone roll is a monster for both ability regen (via Whisper of Shard's insane values) and AoE ad clear (doubly so with Whisper of Fissures). If anyone is a fan of Stasis Warlock for instance, I'd definitely try it out-if you're looking for an ability/ad-clear focused weapon, it feels even better than a conventional Demo+FFly roll on a MG like Corrective Measure, or a straight AJunkie+Demo roll on Chain of Command IMO.
If I had a nickel for every time Bungie added an Arc rapid fire machine gun without voltshot, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but weird it happened twice right?
I think this is a pretty good ranking! One bit of feedback: I’d suggest considering the inventory stat of each machine gun. For example, Unwavering Duty has the highest inventory stat of any machine gun, which translates to a pretty substantial increase in reserves. It’s not as important as, say, Reconstruction, but it is a very pleasant quality of life upgrade that, combined with Subsistence/Incandescent, pushes me to rank Unwavering Duty over Commemoration.
@@TheAegisRelic Yeah, Avalanche is a weird one. It has aim assist and perks that are _wildly_ out of band for a holiday event, but I suspect that Bungie decided that they’ll tone this LMG down by slashing its ammo reserves, which, fair.
Unwavering Duty is HEAVILY underrated, I have a Subsistence/Killing Tally or Incandescent roll that never comes off my Starfire Protocol build. and Song of Ir Yut is honestly my favorite gun in the game at the moment, personally I think it dethrones Commemoration especially for my play style
i feel like affinity is a huge thing for the most part, like you said empyrean extensions for solar but also arc for getting ionic traces and void for volatile.
ALH / Cascade Avalanche is pretty fun when it works. If you are shotgun swapping on Nezarec for some reason, the crits on his chest spot will activate Cascade, and then when you are Cascading all over him, your ALH shotguns can reload. The main issue with it is just the ammo inventory is terrible for no particular reason. It's got significantly less ammo than any other 450, and the ammo inventory buff back in Lightfall or Seraph? buffed every single LMG equally by approximately +1 magazine, so that issue is proportionally diminished, but still comes up sometimes.
A nice buff that the Qua Xaphan V gets, is the Cassoid Wild Card origin trait! You create a bunch of mini exposives to add onto your Destabilizing or other damage
Planck's Stride has Grave robber & swashbuckler; both feed into the origin trait & synergize easily for any melee build. No other machine gun has this perk combo for a melee build. It is the best arc rapidfire machine gun for an arc melee build & is at least a C tier weapon. (I personally say B tier as a punchy Titan/arc hunter.)
It was literally made for arc melee builds. It's so good with Point contact Canon brace. I fully agree with B tier. It has one job and it's very good at it.
chain of command deserves to be higher imo. demo AJ is such a simple yet effective combo and the fact that you don't have to grind out red borders to get the roll you're looking for is really approachable for new players
I think retrofit should definitely either be the top of it's tier, or bottom of A tier strictly because no other LMG in the game can do what it does, and it's enhanceable, but generally agree with your placements. Another great list, for sure.
@TheAegisRelic having consistent damage is still usefull in burning down champions and bosses. While they aren't dedicated raid boss melters but people still use them on nightfall bosses.
The Swarm actually has a niche use in the Ghosts of the Deep dungeon with a Genesis/Target Lock roll. It carried me in my day one, two man clear because I never had to reload from all the shield breaks. If another activity with a lot of shielded enemies comes up again (Shadow legion overhsields/Moth shields), A Swarm with Genesis is what I’m bringing for an MG.
@TheAegisRelic I got the same combo I have of Circular Logic on my Song of Ir Yut and while it's the same story...the machine gun feels good and puts in work ♡
Yah you are definitely my favorite Destiny UA-camr at the moment. What’s even more impressive to me, what newer viewers may not know is you are literally so much more goated in game, even with the amount of knowledge you have (which is literally facts not takes or opinions) like this is literally what the best stuff in the game is. Take notes if you are wanting to get better at the game, this is the only reason Aegis is going in depth and explaining everything😂.
BaS surprised me with how good it is on song. If you are running something like an auto loading waveframe it’s very easy to have the perk up all the time, and it’s a hefty damage bonus. I like it when my build requires using multiple guns, and I can’t just run around with a KT commemoration out all the time.
Underrated combo on Corrective Measure is Rewind/HIR, it lets you sit with the damage buff from HIR for significantly longer than other weapons can and doesn't require you to get kills or be near allies or hit 3 different enemies. For general use my Adept Corrective Measure with that roll has been the best workhorse machine gun in the game.
Terminus Horizon with Demo + Well/AdJunk is really good on a Hunter Shinobu build. Synergizes well with arc and it completely covers any gaps in your grenade uptime which on that build is already very small since you can pretty much just constantly chuck grenades. It was really great to find as a new player
It's fun, and I almost brought it up, just not as practical as most other things you can do with a machine gun considering how rough their reload situation is.
i’ve been using avalanche with sub incan for the past few months, feels so good when i never have to reload and keeping up my restoration + huge explosions + incandescent kills proc subsistence
I feel like target lock is actually really good for machine guns. Its great at melting champs, and does decent damage for bosses. That being said i mainly use it for GM's so its not good overall, but for GM's id say its the best damage perk for machine guns.
I’ve always been a sucker for an LMG. 21% used to be stuck by my side. Love me some heir apparent and hammer head now. Envy + killing tally feels so good.
I feel like Quillum’s Terminus could’ve been ever so slightly better if it could get Firefly + Headstone. Just too bad both perks are in the same column
I like using circular logic with golden tricorn, Verity's, and mindspun. Eat a grenade and then as you get kills those suspend waves will finish off a few enemies and give you thay 50% buff. Not the best since its first column is missing some good perks, but fun nonetheless
One of the biggest things that you overlooked with ranking the Machine Guns is the viability of their Origin Perks. Commemoration is not just the best LMG due to perk combinations like Reconstruction and Killing Tally, but it also has the best Origin perk you would ever want to have. Regenning all of your abilities 1% for every bullet hit is absolutely insane and exceeds the like of weapons that use Demo. In the same vein Cursed Thrall is very useful for melee builds on Song of Ir Yut.
Some things: Bray Inheritance only charges ~0.4% per hit on Commemoration There is not a single LMG with an origin trait significant enough to shift it a tier LMGs do not mesh well with melee builds imo (on most of those you are using Tractor for obvious reasons)
I was also surprised he didn't mention Planck's Strides origin perk, it makes for a perfect melee synergy which is the only thing this LMG has really going for it. Not that it is particularly meta, but the combination of Graverobber, Swashbuckler and Right Hook is so unique it's at least worth mentioning. So putting this weapon 2 tiers lower than Shattered Cipher is hard to agree with.
Circular Logic is genuinely decent for burning champions! I run mine with Envious and Vorpal. The massive magazine, 10% damage buff and tracer rockets all combine to burn through champions in GMs
consuming your shackle grenade with weavers trance and veritys brow, while using a circular logic with tricorn puts out insane aoe damage and keeps tricorn 2 procced the entire time you have weavers trance which comes back super fast with veritys. As well as veritys buffing the explosions from weavers trance to get you those "grenade kills" for tricorn! SUPER UNDERRATED
Unwavering Duty is very good for end game PvE. The only problem is that most endgame PvE players do not play trials. I never got a decent roll of Unwavering Duty or Avalanche, so I crafted Fixed Odds and called it a day.
@@TheAegisRelicit’s not universal sure, but not like you can apply incandescent or voltshot using subclasses at all. It’s a clear benefit to a void add clear weapon. Void hunter - Onni, Orpheus, gyrfalcon - are totally playable in GM level content also.
Imo on quilliums Stats for all is amazing on it, given what you use MG for i think its better than you gave it credit for, now despite that I woutdent rank it above C as while its 4th column is solid its 3rd column is only really SFA and unrelenting
Being someone who doesnt do really any endgame things though have solo’d a dungeon or two, seeing A Fine Memorial at B at least makes me happy with my roll. I got Auto Loading + Demo and it’s never left my Warlock’s heavy slot. Switch away? Reloaded. Shoot the whole mag and the boss is still damagable? Grenade and go again. No need to reload manually, it’s always ready, saved me many a time.
I think your list is pretty accurate. I do think Corrective Measure is an S tier Machine Gun, potentially even being better than Commemoration as I feel as though it has a higher ceiling when combining it with a Build like Gyrfalcon or Briarbinds.
No chance. Commemoration with reconstruction and killing tally is unmatched and no way corrective measure even comes close even with a 5/5. Gyfflcons is better with commemoration than it is with corrective measure.
@@johnalbone30192 I disagree. Recon is a perk for lazy people. Demo has reload and ability regen. Killing Tally is better than AJ in general but overall more synergy and adept mod slots too.
@@xufis 🤣🤣🤣 lazy people? Lmfao bruh it’s a video game and it’s objectively better than demo on a heavy weapon gives less nade energy and is nowhere near as good as permanent killing tally x3 and never ever having to reload. Commemoration is also void and does the same thing with gurfalcin 😂😂 adept slot? Why on earth would you ever use anything other than minor spec on a ad clear weapon. It’s not even opinion. Reconstruction and killing tally with gyrfalcons or without is a bagillion times better than demo AJ corrective measure. Period.
@@johnalbone30192 Demo has a higher ceiling. Demo means way more now that abilities are getting nerfed. Adept Big Ones means more damage to targets that actually benefit from it. Using Minor Spec when it 1hks most red bars anyway is redundant 😭 People chose Commemoration because it is craftable which is more accessible to most. Corrective Measure has more to offer, and it’ll shine over Commemoration even more next season where everyone notices ability cooldown changes.
Machine guns are simple. Crota log, deep stone lmg. Top two. If you want a solar one, trials one or fixed odds. You can pretty much throw everything else away(excluding exotics of course). There’s that void one retrofit but since the nerf you never see it anymore. Forgot about stasis. Kings fall one and season of the risen one feels good.
Really good video, there's just a couple things I'd add. Firstly, recurrent impact probably deserves a few extra points for it's origin trait, which gives a good chunk of stackable DR. Secondly, I think there's an argument to be made for subsistence over recon on killing tally MGs: you can run through a doubled mag if there are enough adds, but subsistence can last for your entire reserves. I don't think it ever takes more than 10% of your mag to kill am orange bar, even in GMs or master raids.
Bait and Switch is actually really good on Song of Ir Yut, it's easy to proc and it bursts down champs and majors in things like gms. Unlike Killing Tally, it doesn't require a kill to proc meaning if you need your lmg to do some good damage on a boss it's gonna be better, especially if there's no ads to proc Killing Tally on. So it absolutely has a place in the sandbox, and it does something Commemoration doesn't.
Dang, I was coping that Recurrent Impact would be ranked higher. I’ve recently incorporated it into a Behemoth Titan Build based around crystal/shard spam and Stasis surge mods, and to turn it into a general workhorse loaded it with enhanced Frenzy and Firmly Planted. While it sounds silly at first, Firmly Planted turns it into a consistent, reliable, and decently stable ad-clearing weapon at close and mid to far range. Really hope the Stasis rework coming next season gives us some new perks with stasis synergy
Ig it's kinda late to say, but i completely disagree with you about Target Lock. Yes LMGs are not used for boss damage, but they are incredibly useful in GMs where you have to be efficient at killing both ads and champions, and target lock makes the latter much easier, especially for solo. Also I will never accept Commemoration as #1 LMG when Song of Ir Yût exists which has BnS, a free 35% damage buff perk which doesn't require stacking kills or sustained damage. It is by far the most comfortable machine gun to use and it fills both roles of add-clear and dps. Also Retrofit Escapade being able to literally melt a champion to a finisher state in a single stun in GM solo and not deserving an S tier is ridiculous. I believe Eleatic Principle can do that too, you'd just have to reload it either manually or artificially. Either way, love Song for BnS as universally best MG, love all the rapid fire ones with Target lock too. Would never swap my Song for them though.
- TL resets extremely quickly and requires ramping that is just counterproductive (also I tend to not use LMGs on champions) - I redid the LMG list and Song is placed higher, but I still do not think that it beats e. Sub + e. KT + Bray for general play - There are plenty of weapons that can melt a champ to a finisher state in a single stun in GM solo
I have a Fixed Odds with Field Prep and incandescent. It was the final push that helped my fireteam beat our first GM! Couldn't really use Commemoration in that one because we didn't have any surges or overcharges to buff it. Commemoration is still my favorite machine gun, and is totally worth the 6 hrs of farming i had to do.
Unwavering duty is a god send add clear gun Got adept with extended mag, field prep + killing tally. My build is rain of fire. I use Vex or honestly any fusion rifle to get radiant, swap to Unwavering. Air dash to reload for perma KT. More ammo with Field Prep Ember of Empyrean since it is solar for permanent radiant. Add restoration x2 with healing grande and you can never die.
I think subsistence is actually the best perk on Commem. I low key hate recon on machine guns because I use them a lot so recon doesn’t really ever activate. Maybe once in a raid encounter, but it takes a while to fill completely. With subsistence you can pretty much always have a substantially improved mag size because you’re gonna kill almost everything in less than 8 bullets. I could see recon being better for GMs, but I personally prefer rockets and linears for my heavy in GMs.
15:14 don’t dismiss subsistence so easily. Paired with killing tally, I only have to reload when I run out of ammo completely on commemoration. Not to mention you don’t have to wait between kills for subsistence to proc where you need to have downtime while using reconstruction.
unwavering duty is sooo underrated. i was sad about not getting a nice fixed odds roll and got this from a random ass trials match. field prep and incandescent(as soon as i saw this being an adaptive i was so hyped), this thing is a stat monster, mine has range mw with 78 range, i have accurized too it can go up to 88 range which is just insane, though mostly unnecessary. used this for add clear on the bridge encounter. i got 81 reload speed too, and with a loader mod this is as speedy it gets a manual reload machine gun lol. so stoked about you putting this to S tier. still doesn't sound like commemoration tho...
Chain of command doesn't really synergize with the stasis because most of the time you want to match heavy and super. The ad junkie wouldn't work well with the stasis grenades as they freeze but don't really kill. You shatter, but that's not a grenade kill.
Terminus Horizon is AFAIK the only arc machine gun with a perk like Triple Tap (and non exist with FTTC). So Triple Tap + Target Lock is a really good option if you want an arc heavy machine gun for GMs. It let's you melt champs and bosses without burning thorugh all your ammo and target lock is actually decent on these kind of targets too.
There was a fun time with Seventh Seraph SAW when You could run armor piercing rounds and Mulligan and every shot counted as a miss since it overpenetrated targets... lol good times.
I'm personally one of the one's who runs Chain of Command with osmosis/demo, especially on a void subclass to take advantage of volatile. I know retrofit escapade exists, but i love the grenade uptime from chain of command
Unpopular opinion: Besides not being craftable, Corrective Measure is better than Commemoration. With Demo + Adrenaline Junkie + Ext Mag, always have a x5 AJ, reload from Demo. What i think makes it better is Demo. So easy to get grenades. Even easier with Devour + Volatile Rounds
@@thesonicfanboi ohhh that makes way more sense. I was wondering, cause you'd think Grave Robber and a relevant damage perk would be exactly what you'd want there. Strikes me as more B tier material.
I have a roll of Unwavering Duty with Ambitious Assassin and Incandecent, it's easily my fav solar lmg not just in feel but with raw ad clear. Ambitious assassin works like a walmart killing tally, where you get kills with your first initial mag- reload and have 150 rounds to play with. Solid gun.
If the swarm gets placed anywhere above non-starter, we’re gonna have a problem buddy
Facts, facts, facts
Swarm Grenade (I throw my useless machine gun at the adds)
it’s so shit lmao
Hahaha
I love the swarm, just wish it was better
The frustration watching you throw orbs towards your teammates in the corrupted strike at the beginning.
5 years this strike has been out and every time I matchmake its apparently someone else's first time. awful mechanic.
the boss later was so much worse too
And those teammates will be the same ones that one matchmade raids
*want
LMAO haha they extended the strike length to the perfect length for this video intro though so shout out to them :D
Avalanche should probably lose a point because it has a total dog tier inventory size stat. It holds 270 max reserves compared to 348 for Commemoration. (check Mossy’s inventory sheet for more data) Ammo availability is definitely good nowadays but holding more than 20% less ammo at max is notable.
I actually didn't know that! My recommendation is Unwavering regardless but that's actually quite significant, thanks for the note!
Avalanche also feels terrible to use.
A really cool synergy on the Strand LMG with Tricorne is with Mindspun Invocation on Warlock. The Strand suspend bursts count as grenade damage which can proc Tricorn x2 if the suspend burst kills an add. This can be combined with Verity's Brow to increase the damage of the suspend burst to give a really solid add clear loop.
It also works really well with the newest hunter exotic moth gauntlets since the moths count as a grenade and you get 3 grenades for some reason when combining them with the strand class
@@zachcunningham9054 A hunter aspect gives an extra grenade charge. That said, the hunter aspects for strand RN are really good so it's kinda hard to justify the extra grenade charge on mothkeepers imo.
finally an Aegis video on the best weapon architype for boss dmg, always use machine guns for boss dps to be optimal. Great video!
I'm so glad you're doing the heavy weapons too, not because I don't know what I want or what is good with heavy weapons, but just because I love to hear your insight. There's always something to learn from you it feels like.
I kinda get, that chain of command is lacking perk diversity and also is a stasis machine gun, so it doesn’t have the benefit of destroying elemental shields. But demo ad junkie is literally the roll u use corrective measure for, so I think it deserves atleast a spot in the B-Tier
Honestly it was just a perk diversity issue, I'm working on figuring out how to factor that in less
@@TheAegisRelicmight want to consider two scores: a perk diversity score and a god roll score
@@TheAegisRelicJust a suggestion but as far as awarding points for perks you might want to consider only awarding points for the best in slot perk. If there’s multiple that are viable then points for each one but if there’s a single roll on a weapon that’s objectively the best pairing then those being the contributing factor to the overall score would be more representative. An additional point or two as a diversity bonus for a weapon with a lot of viable perks could be a substitute so versatile weapons aren’t undervalued.
@@TheAegisRelicAdd two or three tiers of points for perks/perk combinations. You can diversify your decision making that way.
One for all is much better than adrenaline junkie . In any situation that you can get adrenaline junkie you can also proc one for all with less trouble and you don't need final blows wich makes it much more consistent in group content .
For anyone keen to try it out: I feel that Recurrent Impact's Subsistence + Headstone roll is a monster for both ability regen (via Whisper of Shard's insane values) and AoE ad clear (doubly so with Whisper of Fissures).
If anyone is a fan of Stasis Warlock for instance, I'd definitely try it out-if you're looking for an ability/ad-clear focused weapon, it feels even better than a conventional Demo+FFly roll on a MG like Corrective Measure, or a straight AJunkie+Demo roll on Chain of Command IMO.
That and the origin perks is honestly one of the best in the game imo
How do i get it
@@-Benja It was a season of the risen weapon so when dead messenger exotic quest comes back around you can get it
Not to mention it’s ability to deal with both overload and unstop champs! I have the same roll and it’s a monster.
If I had a nickel for every time Bungie added an Arc rapid fire machine gun without voltshot, I’d have two nickels. Which isn’t a lot but weird it happened twice right?
This man just cannot catch a break (and I'm all for it)
Hi
I think this is a pretty good ranking! One bit of feedback: I’d suggest considering the inventory stat of each machine gun. For example, Unwavering Duty has the highest inventory stat of any machine gun, which translates to a pretty substantial increase in reserves. It’s not as important as, say, Reconstruction, but it is a very pleasant quality of life upgrade that, combined with Subsistence/Incandescent, pushes me to rank Unwavering Duty over Commemoration.
Unwavering Duty enjoyer has entered the chat, I see
(OP's a clanmate)
Yeah someone told me Avalanche has substantially lower reserves than most LMGs for some reason which is weird
@@TheAegisRelic Yeah, Avalanche is a weird one. It has aim assist and perks that are _wildly_ out of band for a holiday event, but I suspect that Bungie decided that they’ll tone this LMG down by slashing its ammo reserves, which, fair.
Unwavering Duty is HEAVILY underrated, I have a Subsistence/Killing Tally or Incandescent roll that never comes off my Starfire Protocol build. and Song of Ir Yut is honestly my favorite gun in the game at the moment, personally I think it dethrones Commemoration especially for my play style
it really, really is. killing tally is an insane perk so subsistence on top of that is just actually perfect
@@Narfwakcommemoration gets subsistence
i got rid of my subsistence w incandescent before the machine gun buffs man i regret that shit so hard
@@Narfwakkilling tally is just another 30% damage perk. It’s cool that it can stay for a whole mag but it’s not the beast that it used to be
@@seffers4788laughs in actium war rig Titan
i feel like affinity is a huge thing for the most part, like you said empyrean extensions for solar but also arc for getting ionic traces and void for volatile.
Loving this series. Giving me new goals in this game
ALH / Cascade Avalanche is pretty fun when it works. If you are shotgun swapping on Nezarec for some reason, the crits on his chest spot will activate Cascade, and then when you are Cascading all over him, your ALH shotguns can reload. The main issue with it is just the ammo inventory is terrible for no particular reason. It's got significantly less ammo than any other 450, and the ammo inventory buff back in Lightfall or Seraph? buffed every single LMG equally by approximately +1 magazine, so that issue is proportionally diminished, but still comes up sometimes.
Retrofit Escapade not being at least A-Tier is the hottest take ive seen all year
A nice buff that the Qua Xaphan V gets, is the Cassoid Wild Card origin trait! You create a bunch of mini exposives to add onto your Destabilizing or other damage
Planck's Stride has Grave robber & swashbuckler; both feed into the origin trait & synergize easily for any melee build. No other machine gun has this perk combo for a melee build.
It is the best arc rapidfire machine gun for an arc melee build & is at least a C tier weapon. (I personally say B tier as a punchy Titan/arc hunter.)
It was literally made for arc melee builds. It's so good with Point contact Canon brace. I fully agree with B tier. It has one job and it's very good at it.
chain of command deserves to be higher imo. demo AJ is such a simple yet effective combo and the fact that you don't have to grind out red borders to get the roll you're looking for is really approachable for new players
I love how S-Tier is Void, Solar and Arc your accuracy on ranking is so spot on
I think retrofit should definitely either be the top of it's tier, or bottom of A tier strictly because no other LMG in the game can do what it does, and it's enhanceable, but generally agree with your placements. Another great list, for sure.
Unfortunately its unique niche isn't particularly useful in endgame, but I see what you're saying
@TheAegisRelic having consistent damage is still usefull in burning down champions and bosses. While they aren't dedicated raid boss melters but people still use them on nightfall bosses.
My Saw with auto reload and vorpal hasn’t left my inventory since I got it. It absolutely shreds.
Love this roll, I think Banshee sold it at one point.
fr, I have the same roll and it's one of my favorite guns in the game. super versatile even in GMs
The Swarm actually has a niche use in the Ghosts of the Deep dungeon with a Genesis/Target Lock roll. It carried me in my day one, two man clear because I never had to reload from all the shield breaks. If another activity with a lot of shielded enemies comes up again (Shadow legion overhsields/Moth shields), A Swarm with Genesis is what I’m bringing for an MG.
Recurrent Impact's one saving grace is its Origin Trait which grants increased resilience and damage resistance which is nice especially for LMGs
Yeah it's a nice bonus
@TheAegisRelic I got the same combo I have of Circular Logic on my Song of Ir Yut and while it's the same story...the machine gun feels good and puts in work ♡
Yah you are definitely my favorite Destiny UA-camr at the moment. What’s even more impressive to me, what newer viewers may not know is you are literally so much more goated in game, even with the amount of knowledge you have (which is literally facts not takes or opinions) like this is literally what the best stuff in the game is. Take notes if you are wanting to get better at the game, this is the only reason Aegis is going in depth and explaining everything😂.
Commemoration is giving me memories of 21% delirium and hammerhead. I miss those guns and wish they came back.
Man I don’t know what it is but I could watch these videos all day. Love the vids man ❤
Trying to lead the Blueberries in the beginning of this video was incredibly poetic in a video talking about endgame
BaS surprised me with how good it is on song. If you are running something like an auto loading waveframe it’s very easy to have the perk up all the time, and it’s a hefty damage bonus. I like it when my build requires using multiple guns, and I can’t just run around with a KT commemoration out all the time.
planck's Stride has a memey spray and pray combo with One For All and Mulligan
Underrated combo on Corrective Measure is Rewind/HIR, it lets you sit with the damage buff from HIR for significantly longer than other weapons can and doesn't require you to get kills or be near allies or hit 3 different enemies. For general use my Adept Corrective Measure with that roll has been the best workhorse machine gun in the game.
You are much better off using something like OFA if you're looking for a maximized damage perk + you shouldn't be firing an LMG for that long anyways
Demo is by far the best machine gun perk, especially in the 3rd slot.
Lol edit I can't believe I have to put this but IMO
recon better
@@max73916demo will auto reload on grenade throw, if you remember to swap to it then it has more utility
The only reason Recon gets more points is that it's always applicable, Demo necessitates a grenade build
Over reconstruction?Your high man 😂
@@snoopyer7what happens when you run out of nades?
Terminus Horizon with Demo + Well/AdJunk is really good on a Hunter Shinobu build. Synergizes well with arc and it completely covers any gaps in your grenade uptime which on that build is already very small since you can pretty much just constantly chuck grenades. It was really great to find as a new player
I do think Qullium's Terminus Headstone Unrelenting on a stasis build is pretty solid, other than that I agree with every single one
It's fun, and I almost brought it up, just not as practical as most other things you can do with a machine gun considering how rough their reload situation is.
I run the harrowed version with that roll on my stasis hunter
More clutch content from you as always! Thanks for all you do!
first off, i love u. second, when you are done ranking ALL weapons, legendary and exotic, you should combine all the videos into one LONG video
i’ve been using avalanche with sub incan for the past few months, feels so good when i never have to reload and keeping up my restoration + huge explosions + incandescent kills proc subsistence
I feel like target lock is actually really good for machine guns. Its great at melting champs, and does decent damage for bosses. That being said i mainly use it for GM's so its not good overall, but for GM's id say its the best damage perk for machine guns.
Especially if you have reconstruction with it. Or a different overflow perk
As mentioned at the start of this video LMGs are not designed for minibosses and bosses
The chain of command slander is crazy
It's not bad by any means it's just a starting option :)
I’ve always been a sucker for an LMG. 21% used to be stuck by my side. Love me some heir apparent and hammer head now. Envy + killing tally feels so good.
I feel like Quillum’s Terminus could’ve been ever so slightly better if it could get Firefly + Headstone. Just too bad both perks are in the same column
The randoms in the Corrupted elevator almost killed me man! That was way too funny 🤣
I like using circular logic with golden tricorn, Verity's, and mindspun. Eat a grenade and then as you get kills those suspend waves will finish off a few enemies and give you thay 50% buff. Not the best since its first column is missing some good perks, but fun nonetheless
One of the biggest things that you overlooked with ranking the Machine Guns is the viability of their Origin Perks.
Commemoration is not just the best LMG due to perk combinations like Reconstruction and Killing Tally, but it also has the best Origin perk you would ever want to have. Regenning all of your abilities 1% for every bullet hit is absolutely insane and exceeds the like of weapons that use Demo.
In the same vein Cursed Thrall is very useful for melee builds on Song of Ir Yut.
Some things:
Bray Inheritance only charges ~0.4% per hit on Commemoration
There is not a single LMG with an origin trait significant enough to shift it a tier
LMGs do not mesh well with melee builds imo (on most of those you are using Tractor for obvious reasons)
I was also surprised he didn't mention Planck's Strides origin perk, it makes for a perfect melee synergy which is the only thing this LMG has really going for it. Not that it is particularly meta, but the combination of Graverobber, Swashbuckler and Right Hook is so unique it's at least worth mentioning.
So putting this weapon 2 tiers lower than Shattered Cipher is hard to agree with.
There we are! The heavies have begun!
And for my favourite weapon type, too! :D
Cheers for the videos! Keep up the dedication!
Retrofit Escapade is my favourite legendary weapon in the whole game so this list hurt a bit
Circular Logic is genuinely decent for burning champions!
I run mine with Envious and Vorpal. The massive magazine, 10% damage buff and tracer rockets all combine to burn through champions in GMs
Came for unwavering duty. Waited til the end. I am pleased.
consuming your shackle grenade with weavers trance and veritys brow, while using a circular logic with tricorn puts out insane aoe damage and keeps tricorn 2 procced the entire time you have weavers trance which comes back super fast with veritys. As well as veritys buffing the explosions from weavers trance to get you those "grenade kills" for tricorn! SUPER UNDERRATED
Unwavering Duty is very good for end game PvE. The only problem is that most endgame PvE players do not play trials. I never got a decent roll of Unwavering Duty or Avalanche, so I crafted Fixed Odds and called it a day.
Crazy to ignore affinity when volatile is transformative on LMGs and doesn’t cost a gun perk
Volatile support isn't universal, is linked to one of the weakest subclasses, and is artifact-dependent when it isn't
@@TheAegisRelicit’s not universal sure, but not like you can apply incandescent or voltshot using subclasses at all. It’s a clear benefit to a void add clear weapon. Void hunter - Onni, Orpheus, gyrfalcon - are totally playable in GM level content also.
I love when I can recognize exactly what lofi beats Aegis picked for the background music
Really??? I got them from copyright free compilation vids lol
Imo on quilliums Stats for all is amazing on it, given what you use MG for i think its better than you gave it credit for, now despite that I woutdent rank it above C as while its 4th column is solid its 3rd column is only really SFA and unrelenting
Being someone who doesnt do really any endgame things though have solo’d a dungeon or two, seeing A Fine Memorial at B at least makes me happy with my roll.
I got Auto Loading + Demo and it’s never left my Warlock’s heavy slot. Switch away? Reloaded. Shoot the whole mag and the boss is still damagable? Grenade and go again. No need to reload manually, it’s always ready, saved me many a time.
I think your list is pretty accurate. I do think Corrective Measure is an S tier Machine Gun, potentially even being better than Commemoration as I feel as though it has a higher ceiling when combining it with a Build like Gyrfalcon or Briarbinds.
No chance. Commemoration with reconstruction and killing tally is unmatched and no way corrective measure even comes close even with a 5/5. Gyfflcons is better with commemoration than it is with corrective measure.
@@johnalbone30192 I disagree. Recon is a perk for lazy people. Demo has reload and ability regen. Killing Tally is better than AJ in general but overall more synergy and adept mod slots too.
@@xufis 🤣🤣🤣 lazy people? Lmfao bruh it’s a video game and it’s objectively better than demo on a heavy weapon gives less nade energy and is nowhere near as good as permanent killing tally x3 and never ever having to reload. Commemoration is also void and does the same thing with gurfalcin 😂😂 adept slot? Why on earth would you ever use anything other than minor spec on a ad clear weapon. It’s not even opinion. Reconstruction and killing tally with gyrfalcons or without is a bagillion times better than demo AJ corrective measure. Period.
@@johnalbone30192 Demo has a higher ceiling. Demo means way more now that abilities are getting nerfed. Adept Big Ones means more damage to targets that actually benefit from it. Using Minor Spec when it 1hks most red bars anyway is redundant 😭 People chose Commemoration because it is craftable which is more accessible to most. Corrective Measure has more to offer, and it’ll shine over Commemoration even more next season where everyone notices ability cooldown changes.
I will say I think avalanche has a stronger origin trait than unwavering if you're wanting to use it for incandescent specifically
“guys, put on thunderlord”
That corrupted gameplay with the ball throwing is ELITE!
1:01 This right here is why I'll never play corrupted on matchmaking.
Machine guns are simple. Crota log, deep stone lmg. Top two. If you want a solar one, trials one or fixed odds. You can pretty much throw everything else away(excluding exotics of course). There’s that void one retrofit but since the nerf you never see it anymore.
Forgot about stasis. Kings fall one and season of the risen one feels good.
Streets been waiting for this one
Really good video, there's just a couple things I'd add. Firstly, recurrent impact probably deserves a few extra points for it's origin trait, which gives a good chunk of stackable DR. Secondly, I think there's an argument to be made for subsistence over recon on killing tally MGs: you can run through a doubled mag if there are enough adds, but subsistence can last for your entire reserves. I don't think it ever takes more than 10% of your mag to kill am orange bar, even in GMs or master raids.
Yeah I reranked these, updating this season
Im just saying, Retrofit Escapade with FTTC and Target Lock on a Gyrfalcon's Hunter is a surefire way to make Barrier champs your bitch
Bait and Switch is actually really good on Song of Ir Yut, it's easy to proc and it bursts down champs and majors in things like gms. Unlike Killing Tally, it doesn't require a kill to proc meaning if you need your lmg to do some good damage on a boss it's gonna be better, especially if there's no ads to proc Killing Tally on. So it absolutely has a place in the sandbox, and it does something Commemoration doesn't.
Reranked this list with BnS in mind, update coming out next season
wooow i have another episode of professor’s aegis show to watch
Dang, I was coping that Recurrent Impact would be ranked higher. I’ve recently incorporated it into a Behemoth Titan Build based around crystal/shard spam and Stasis surge mods, and to turn it into a general workhorse loaded it with enhanced Frenzy and Firmly Planted. While it sounds silly at first, Firmly Planted turns it into a consistent, reliable, and decently stable ad-clearing weapon at close and mid to far range. Really hope the Stasis rework coming next season gives us some new perks with stasis synergy
I don't know how I feel about this cuz Thermo erosion with demo and field prep is insane
Ig it's kinda late to say, but i completely disagree with you about Target Lock. Yes LMGs are not used for boss damage, but they are incredibly useful in GMs where you have to be efficient at killing both ads and champions, and target lock makes the latter much easier, especially for solo.
Also I will never accept Commemoration as #1 LMG when Song of Ir Yût exists which has BnS, a free 35% damage buff perk which doesn't require stacking kills or sustained damage. It is by far the most comfortable machine gun to use and it fills both roles of add-clear and dps. Also Retrofit Escapade being able to literally melt a champion to a finisher state in a single stun in GM solo and not deserving an S tier is ridiculous. I believe Eleatic Principle can do that too, you'd just have to reload it either manually or artificially.
Either way, love Song for BnS as universally best MG, love all the rapid fire ones with Target lock too. Would never swap my Song for them though.
- TL resets extremely quickly and requires ramping that is just counterproductive (also I tend to not use LMGs on champions)
- I redid the LMG list and Song is placed higher, but I still do not think that it beats e. Sub + e. KT + Bray for general play
- There are plenty of weapons that can melt a champ to a finisher state in a single stun in GM solo
"Everyone knows what they're used for"
Retrofit escapade chillin in the corner like:
Cyberbullying target :D
Oh one thing to note with circular logic is that it pair well with the hunter whirling maelstrom because tangle kills count for golden tricorn..
subsistence/incandescent Avalance is my favorite add clear weapon in the game by a long shot
I have a Fixed Odds with Field Prep and incandescent. It was the final push that helped my fireteam beat our first GM! Couldn't really use Commemoration in that one because we didn't have any surges or overcharges to buff it. Commemoration is still my favorite machine gun, and is totally worth the 6 hrs of farming i had to do.
I'm glad that worked out for you!
Unwavering duty is a god send add clear gun
Got adept with extended mag, field prep + killing tally.
My build is rain of fire. I use Vex or honestly any fusion rifle to get radiant, swap to Unwavering.
Air dash to reload for perma KT.
More ammo with Field Prep
Ember of Empyrean since it is solar for permanent radiant. Add restoration x2 with healing grande and you can never die.
you not putting retrofit in the thumbnail was a show of true willpower
I actually was struggling to find masterworked LMGs I had on me for the thumbnail, I had to pull a Chain for it LMFAO
Field prep gives a reload scalar as well as nearly 2 ammo mods worth of reserves. I feel like it's being highly undervalued.
Unfortunately not as useful as an auto reload assist on LMGs imo
@@TheAegisRelic yeah, as far as dps I'm sure you're right, Especially for speed running. My casual ass just gets a lot of value out of it lol.
Not watching the new lights get utterly confused by the corrupted's ball mechanic for the entire beginning of the video.
I like when he spent a good minute saying good things about chain of command only to then put it in c tier
This is updated now :)
I think subsistence is actually the best perk on Commem. I low key hate recon on machine guns because I use them a lot so recon doesn’t really ever activate. Maybe once in a raid encounter, but it takes a while to fill completely. With subsistence you can pretty much always have a substantially improved mag size because you’re gonna kill almost everything in less than 8 bullets. I could see recon being better for GMs, but I personally prefer rockets and linears for my heavy in GMs.
I think you'll be happy with the updated sheet's list :)
I’ve never heard anyone pronounce “rewind rounds” right on the first time. Gotta respect that.
Retrofit is just hard to take off. My lord that thing shreds
You know, I am pretty happy that so few people brought up Thunderlord. We've really learned restraint in this comment section huh
15:14 don’t dismiss subsistence so easily. Paired with killing tally, I only have to reload when I run out of ammo completely on commemoration. Not to mention you don’t have to wait between kills for subsistence to proc where you need to have downtime while using reconstruction.
Sub is fine Recon is just generally more applicable in higher level content
Remember the swarm has 2 different sets of perks since it was released and the re released with different perks .
Yeah and they both suck (we only consider the latest version in these lists)
Love this series
unwavering duty is sooo underrated. i was sad about not getting a nice fixed odds roll and got this from a random ass trials match. field prep and incandescent(as soon as i saw this being an adaptive i was so hyped), this thing is a stat monster, mine has range mw with 78 range, i have accurized too it can go up to 88 range which is just insane, though mostly unnecessary. used this for add clear on the bridge encounter. i got 81 reload speed too, and with a loader mod this is as speedy it gets a manual reload machine gun lol. so stoked about you putting this to S tier. still doesn't sound like commemoration tho...
Waiting for the day we get a reconstruction incandescent craftable machine gun and bungie ruins it by making it some weird new archetype
Chain of command doesn't really synergize with the stasis because most of the time you want to match heavy and super. The ad junkie wouldn't work well with the stasis grenades as they freeze but don't really kill. You shatter, but that's not a grenade kill.
Terminus Horizon is AFAIK the only arc machine gun with a perk like Triple Tap (and non exist with FTTC). So Triple Tap + Target Lock is a really good option if you want an arc heavy machine gun for GMs. It let's you melt champs and bosses without burning thorugh all your ammo and target lock is actually decent on these kind of targets too.
That's not what I had in mind with it but sure I guess haha
Qua means "in the capacity of" and Xaphan is one of the angels who rebelled with Lucifer. Interesting name indeed!
There was a fun time with Seventh Seraph SAW when You could run armor piercing rounds and Mulligan and every shot counted as a miss since it overpenetrated targets... lol good times.
Literally my fave content creator right now 😂
quillim's terminus has a built in clown cartridge for raids and can overflow 20% to 30% in low mans, it needs to be in B IMO
While that is something I liked about it when it first came out, that certainly isn't enough to surmount its weaknesses
I'm personally one of the one's who runs Chain of Command with osmosis/demo, especially on a void subclass to take advantage of volatile. I know retrofit escapade exists, but i love the grenade uptime from chain of command
I can't be the only one who watches his videos cause he has a nice voice 😂
Unpopular opinion: Besides not being craftable, Corrective Measure is better than Commemoration. With Demo + Adrenaline Junkie + Ext Mag, always have a x5 AJ, reload from Demo. What i think makes it better is Demo. So easy to get grenades. Even easier with Devour + Volatile Rounds
If you want a Demo LMG Song is better but Corrective is definitely good
Imo, avalanche is also up there in the s tier just based on the fact that its origin trait is better than the trials one in team scenarios.
Love my demolitionist corrective measures. My old faithful!
id argue being void is a *benefit* for machine guns, with how good volatile rounds can be on them on stuff like warlock or hunter
That's after the fact and not really why you choose an LMG in most instances imo
In the plancks stride section, you mentioned that there was a better machine gun for a melee build.
What would that be?
He probably means song of ir yut, because of the origin trait
@@thesonicfanboi ohhh that makes way more sense. I was wondering, cause you'd think Grave Robber and a relevant damage perk would be exactly what you'd want there. Strikes me as more B tier material.
I have a roll of Unwavering Duty with Ambitious Assassin and Incandecent, it's easily my fav solar lmg not just in feel but with raw ad clear. Ambitious assassin works like a walmart killing tally, where you get kills with your first initial mag- reload and have 150 rounds to play with. Solid gun.