There's an alarming amount of people who think making the primary weapons better will make the game "too easy" as if the game isn't already pretty easy, there just isn't much diversity on what's actually fun
Some people just want to treat it like e-sports game no matter what, let's be honest. But it is not. And about primaries - true. But what I hate more is when people are glazing objectively mediocre guns because they find them "great". Like "OMG, Sickle is sooo good"!! yeah, buddy, it was. 6 months ago maybe. Or "Assault rifles are great! You're just bad!" Suuure, yeah😂
To be honest, the game is already too easy, dif 10 is not only possible, but rather trivial to solo with the right builds, where the original intent for dif 9 to be "barely possible to complete" (with a team) Soo.. yeah the whining about primaries is silly, by reason of futility. And you just know that the soydivers who never left difficulty 4 before the game got trivialized would unleash an endless tide of fatherlessness upon the devs if they were to just give us difficulties past 10, calling for their nerfs, yet alone rework the balance of the already-existing ones.
I get the devs are very much in the world of 'we want things to be believable' so they want their ARs to be ARs and they want their LMGs to be LMGs. This is the issue. . . Yes the liberator is a nice, believable, accurate assault rifle in the real world. However, this isn't a real world scenario. You're staring down tons of enemies, hordes of them if you will. So what is believable about such a low ammo count in a mag? An AR like that vs the bugs isn't effective enough, it's not effective against the zombies either. You just don't have the ammo for the enemy count for it to be worth it in game, nevermind make sense in universe. Like, against the bots? It's hard to use that kinda gun at all, med pen works a lot better against more of their troops vs the other factions (yes med pen is still great on the others just not as important). I dunno why they're still stuck with believably. Maybe they're still balancing things for haz 5 or 6. But on 10? A lot of the AR mag capacity is not going to pan out. Maybe their idea is that with team play you're geared to gun down the hordes of badmen, but it still doesn't feel worth it. I'd rather use the sickle over nearly any AR. The shotguns are far more reliable because of how fast they reload and how there's no ammo lost. IDK, I don't get it
There's a trick with the Blitzer. If you aim a little high it'll target heads unstead of bodies due to the electric aimcone, one shotting voteless and stunning overseers. It's the same with the Arc Thrower, and you can use a similar trick with Hulks by aiming for their faceplate.
Personal thing about Blitzer, but...I find it incredibly boring. Like I'm not even playing the game. Gun aims for me, gun doesn't require reload, gun doesn't have alternative firing modes. It's like bzzzt, bzzzt, bzzzt, bzzzt...repeat. I'm not saying it's bad, just a personal feeling.
i think crossbow is s tier. it 2 shots enemies like purifier and in my opinion its way better crowd control than purifier. when i rock the armor thats lets you reload faster and have like another shot for the crossbow i never seem to run out of ammo ands its just feels so good only thing is i feel like the purifier is easier to use.
@@PuddleSpoutI'd EWO before using the Liberator ever again. None of these guns except for the purifier have a place in HD2. The MG-43 is my almost always go-to against all of the primaries. My secondaries are more useful than these guns.
We need to rework assualt rifles dawg cause if I gotta tap the trigger to hit enemy weak points I might as well use the diligence or use explosive weapons 😔
@@FierroAiden just fixed my typos lmao hope you understood it before but yeah I’m expecting this change eventually. Even irl assault rifles are med pen(majority not all)
Seems this tierlist is for solo super helldive. While weapons like the Halt and the Punisher are better in teamplay, where you can disable and stun enemies so other teammates can take them down, you don't get that luxury in solo super helldive. Everything you do has to kill. In solo superhelldive, killing is more important that utility because you don't have anyone but yourself to follow up on that utility. On that front, most of the time, you can't ever follow up on your own utility. So the phrase "You could stun them... or you could just kill them" is more applicable since just stunning the enemy *isn't enough when playing solo.* You *need* to kill them in solo instead, otherwise you're just wasting time that you don't have.
No one in randoms plays the game as a team, playing with buds is a completely different game, anything is S tier if you group with friends. Randos will play meta and fuck off on their own. Holy fucking cope
The team play in this game is selfish which iirc ohdough mentioned, hence why his list goes through mostly. Everyone uses stratagems in tandem with their primary/secondary but there’s a difference between having a purifier and support/offensive stratagems (with purifier helping against most chaff), and having lets say counter sniper with stalwart as chaff clear Efficiency
Crossbow not being S-tier is criminal seeing as it can 1 shot overseers, shoots instantly with no need to premeditate it's firing, on top of synergizing wayyyyy too well with the jetpack now that we can aim with it.. oh yeah, it also blows up ships, and lets you fire whilst carrying objective gear, just to top it off with some major utility. Really hope its one of those 'lets not tell the devs what is good so they dont nerf it' cases lol, by far the dumbest weapon in the game, best pick for two out of three factions. Also merry xmass~
I mean, this is the same guy who was adamant that the crossbow was still not good after the buffs, despite LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COMMUNITY DISAGREEING. It was only days and days later that he actually finally relented when he made another tier list after that patch placing it much higher. If that isn't willful ignorance, I don't know what is.
@@scoople6 4 fixes for that: 1) jet-pack - the current meta pick for the illuminate at this point, you really dont need the ammo pack lol; 2) simply having high ground, you really dont need much there, the projectiles are already edging their bounces even with just helldiver gun-height, standing on a crate removes the issue completely; 3) just shooting a teeeeeny bit closer to yourself when possible, this prevents the concrete ricochets in all relevant cases, unless you just find yourself trying to snipe one or two voteless with the gun often.. which i think is a poor decision to begin with; 4) ooooor just shooting the enemy outright, usually shooting an enemy somewhat deep in the group is the go to regardless, and its not like the crossbow has awful ballistics, that thing has so little drop its crazy.
@@Excallius243 hence my speculation in regards to pretending it not the best gun in the game by a decently wide margin.. like we did some months back when the devs were nerf-happy. Unsure though lol
Gun handling is a big deal. Same with HMG and Reprimand. If automatic weapon makes shooting itself a challenge - it's not that fun (imo). I'm trying to fight enemies, not my gun😂
Best if you bring a good long ranged primary (i swear by DCS myself) for the occational situation where you may want to shoot something distant (typically watchers)
Crossbow is S tier. Just bring the redeemer to pop shields. Two shots on overseers. If you feel like you don't have enough ammo pick up the new armor set that boosts reload speed and capacity. I rock this and I feel like I don't even need strategems or support weapons although I carry a spear just to one shot harvesters reliably.
Still mad about the Eruptor. The crossbow is one hand that can shot faster does more damage and still has a very high blast radius... like how tf does that make any sense?
Somehow I really like the tenderizer. When used with the AMR you have great stuff for most situations unless you like fighting very big hordes of enemies. Tenderizer and Sickle were so far the most fun primaries for me. And then I had the wasp launcher or amr for the medium+ enemies.
Tenderizer has been my go to primary as well. Been running it with the ballistic guard dog and AMR with it, very flexible. For big hordes I've been bringing the new flame sentry +gas grandes. So long as a harvester doesn't beam it down big hordes are no problem
The squids don’t like it then you take out their toes and the tenderiser does a fine job of 1-shot kneecapping all voteless , can kill an overseer in 8-10 shots (1-second) to the legs, 16 to the chest and due to moderate DPS can kill a lander shield in around 22 hits. Dough dismisses the full auto weapons out of hand hoping for improvements and while they do need more than they can drill most weak spots at many ranges to little recoil. shotguns have ~20% more damage per total ammo but way more boom per shot, likewise the basic diligence, the jar is a diligence with double the bullet damage and AP3 but less magazines. The purifier if always charged is count double the on hit damage vs any other primary while also having an AoE. The AR simply lack the double capacity magazines that the shotguns n DMR enjoy vs their IRL counterpart but damage down range they only “need” a 10% -20% buff to a stat line to become capable weapons rather than a little lacking. Net result is that the AR have sone of the lowest total damage in the game excepting the explosive/AoE weapons (which all have AP3 explosions) so between their full auto and lower damage potential they burn through their ammo stupidly fast for no real gain vs other weapons.
the game needs enemies with a lot of health but no armor and it needs to add hollow point ammo for light pen weapons to be worth taking also overpenetration on the weaker enemies for medium pen weapons
Nice list. I spent a lot of time when the squids dropped trying out different primaries and found that most of them felt pretty bad because they either were always running out of ammo too quickly (lots of voteless) or couldn't kill Overseers in a timeframe or ammo count I enjoyed. Dominator + Peak Physique saved me by allowing me to one tap their heads. I hope other weapons get buffed or overseers get tweaked to allow more guns to be good on squids.
This right here. It feels good to shoot then damn thing. And I dont have to pony up the extra 20$ for similar one handed smg. Besides, few players are using anti tanks against squids so might as well use those AP3/4 support weapons. Overseers melts from all 3 machine guns, Flamers etc. It gives good variety to the faction (in this current state).
The Plasma purifier is the absolute best option if you want versatility, its also worth mentioning that every charged shot on an unshielded harvester will stagger them A LOT and you can effectively stun lock them with repeated charges. It is also capable of stun locking every other squid unit. It's just difficult to master due to the poor handling and it demands great precision, missing charged shots is PAINFUL
Glaze-divers: "You can do Super Helldive with (x) weapon, its viable and works just fine." Translation for people with common sense: "Guys, guys; the Liberator is an outstanding weapon you can beat super helldive with it, i did it myself. Just please ignore the fact that for 90% of the mission i didnt even have it pulled out and 99% of my kills were gotten with strategems, secondaries, support weapons, and literally anything but the Liberator." (Liberator can be replaced with any of the many, many terrible weapons we have) Just remember that if a weapon is bad at difficulty 10, its bad at difficulty 0 too, you're just slapping some glaze goggles on by limiting missions to only having 3-5 enemies at a time that just so happen to be the enemies you can "viably" kill with a toothpick if you try hard enough. A weapon that makes you have to limit/handicap yourself from the rest of the game by essentially getting rid of the majority of gameplay elements and variety (enemies are a gameplay element) is a bad weapon. If it cannot participate effectively in the majority of the game, its not good; its like calling the baseball player that's never played on the field because he cant hold the bat, a player; hes not a player, he's a seat warmer at best and he's on the roster to just make it look bigger.
I think you look at primary weapons in a vacuum too much. If you have been playing the game long enough you know that primaries arent your main heavy lifter. They are best for situations like picking off enemies your strategem don't kill, situations that using a strategem will be a waste and survival/utility purposes. No one, but clickbait channels are claiming that they kill 9999999999 enemies with some D tier crap.
@@puffer_frog I think that's what primaries were meant to be from the beginning, but some, like the purifier and crossbow are so overtuned that now they are the expectation. But it gets boring to use one of 2 weapons all the time.
Bit of a note but all the voteless die to any 1 hit of over 130 dmg (80 on the legs) but have a 10 or seconds bleed out so all the marksmen rifles do one shot them but it's not that helpful up close for that reason
you can switch the halt to stun mode and stun every overseer as they're crowding the skies, makes it a lot easier to address the voteless or harvesters.
Needs more damage or more ammo or both head hunter type weapon but if you can't kill the medium enemies then there's no point using it when you have 15 coming twords you
@discountcobracommander2494 the diligence does a better job than it in terms of head hunting, eruptor and crossbow are better in just AOE explosive uses. It has no use right now
You really need to learn how to use the blitzer. The devs still need to fix its targeting and hitting dead bodies/random objects, though. They already fixed it before, then the big buff update broke it, and the arc thrower...
I have noticed, at least with the illuminate, they have it so it ignores the voteless which stumble around after a death to the Blitzer. Though i'm guessing it's still buggy on the other two factions?
Ajudicator is actually a really solid weapon, imo. 2 headshots an Overseer (very easy with single / tap firing) + automatic fire for Voteless hordes + great at taking out Harvester or Outpost shields quickly. Can still take out the Harvester horns in a pinch too - though Railgun is so nice against them that I can usually kill it before the shield can come back anyway. Also handy for dealing with Watchers quickly with little ammo needed - compared to the Purifier, which needs to deal with the time it takes to charge up a full shot, or risk spamming an entire clip if there's not enough time for that before it calls a reinforcement. Pair the Adjudicator with the Siege Ready armor for the extra ammo + increased reload speed and you've got a really solid primary. Surprised to see as low as it is on this list - I think it deserves to be in low A, below the Scorcher at least.
Wow, look at that, a realistic weapon ranking. Tired of all the "ThIs GuN iS aMaZiNg" glaze when 90% of their kills aren't coming from their primary. It's fine if you like it, but that doesn't mean it's objectively great.
it surprises me the comments of people saying -add weapon here- is S or A tier if you -add support or stratagem here- he testing the weapons based on what that weapon can do not what it pairs with.
I like the Scythe, I like all of the beam style weapons, doesn't mean I should sit here and claim these weapons are S tier like so many people do. They're maybe a high C at best. Wish the community was more realistic about things and less about "This game is the greatest thing ever and it does literally nothing wrong!"
I think you had problems with the Blitzer for a couple of reasons. Most importantly is that the weapon is very sensitive to how you are aiming it (up or down angle) as well as keeping within an optimal hit range (not too close, not too far). Once you get used to how the weapon performs it becomes very functional in handling and mowing down swarms of voteless easily hitting 50 kill streaks without much issue (no gas, no sentry, no rover, just blitzer), but you really have to know how to get the most out of it. This means knowing when to dive around to take advantage of that optimal distance. And unless an overseer had their arm shield up, I never once saw it not stun them as there is a very noticeable animation when they get stunned (holds hand to face for a moment with a slouch). Having a complimenting loadout helps keeping swarms to barely noticeable, hardly an inconvenience. Would suggest at least one slot going to a sentry or Guard rover if you're going to use a Blitzer, but if you're very comfortable with optimal use this isn't necessary as I've run with Recoilless and no sentry also to instead focus on taking out ships/encampments/harvesters easier. If you don't know the optimal hit box to include angling up/down to spread/narrow the way it shoots it becomes less useful. The biggest draw backs in my experience with Blitzer is that it will still hit bodies/foliage over enemies along with being less useful if too close/far, and it does not remove shields on Harvester/ships. It can pass through shields on harvester and do enough damage to kill it if aiming at it's eye area, but you end up in a danger zone due to the harvesters secondary arc weapon and it does not stun harvesters (done this in oh shit situations, not recommended). Dive+shoot tactics become pretty important with using blitzer too. I would grade it at a low B/high C rank weapon depending on user (this goes much lower the less experienced with blitzer a user is) Pros: Unlimited ammo Stun/crowd control Multi-hit Cons: Prone to arcing on friendlies Very hit box control dependent (distance and angle) Doesn't destroy shields, but bypasses them. (this is a con because the same is true for our shield packs) Suggestions: Best used with sentry/Guard rover but not necessary. If buddied up with team, make sure they know to stay behind you, not running in front to avoid friendly fire. Know the hit box and how to manipulate it to get the best use of the weapon.
Blitzer is better than described, but not that great. It's done what I expected it to do, provide crowd control with the stagger effect. It doesn't kill fast, but it doesn't need to most of the time as they can't get to you as they are staggered. Infinite ammo means you can just continue to chain this until they eventually die. HOWEVER there are times when there is too many at too wide a radius to all stagger them as you need them to be because of the firing delay. Probably a solid B. Same reason Cookout is once again in at least B tier. I think it kills faster than the Blitzer, but doesn't have unlimited ammo. Technically it's a "good" thing if any weapon gets buffed, even if its already good.
Not sure we have the same experience with the blitzer because it really does stun overseer’s off rib. And the fact that you basically can’t miss or reload with it got ignored which is weird since you mention mag size and aim requirements for other guns.
How is your gameplay with the blitzer that bad? I one shot all voteless and usually kill at least 3 to 4 minimum per shot and never get hit in return. It also staggers overseers and can kill them pretty decently quick too. It’s overall a great weapon minus not being able to down shields with it but use a stratagem for those anyway
@@ungobungo7986 he's still wrong. first day illuminate show up and i can't fight them with anything but the blitzer now. it's amazing when me and my friends are just wiping everything out with lightning and explosives
i like the Sta-11 because i use it for chaff and taking down shields, then i use AMR for anything armored, id say it pairs really well with power weapons but not as your main for everything
I think the accelerator rifle needs, A. more ammo capacity, like an extra shot, so 4 in total that way you can deal with 2 overseers in one clip. Or B. more damage in order to one shot them if you hit all three shots in one burst.
Given that it's a collab weapon, I can't speak about how it is in the original game, but I wish they could just do away with the 3 round burst. The first shot staggers the enemy and causes the next to either miss or hit away from the critical region. Plus that damage falloff is just ouch.
FYI: Crossbow one-shots Overseers to the head. I'm not sure if this is implied by how you said it in the video- (and i'm sure you know!) but it's an important point to make. If you haven't alerted everyone yet, you can take out a flying guy before he starts being all evasive, and two shots on a shield will take out the Overseer behind it- With enough splash that it'll probably take out the guy next to him too. Being one-handed is great for the black box retrieval and all that- but it also means you can run and gun WAY easier, which makes it an explosive option you can reliably use against the hoard. No arguments about the ammo count though. Hurts. But there's gotta be a compromise somewhere! I usually stay stocked up enough with PoIs.
SMGs and Rifles NEED to get a meaningful buff or rework and not like + 10 DMG but something that'll actually make them efficiently viable in tough situations. Like sometimes I just wanna play a more typical firearm like full auto rifle or SMG but those are just not very good in Helldivers 2 right now.
Honestly base damage isn't going to fix them, clearly, look at how they "buffed" the ARs and SMGs during the 60 day patches, 5-10 points of damage into each but somehow they still suck, AH is missing something and simply adding base damage clearly isn't going to cut it. They either need to fit their place in the game as nothing more than glorified secondaries to our stratagems OR they need to remove the armor system, full stop.
I think the plasma and explosive weapons are just so overtuned that you can't realistically make rifles catch up without making them all stupidly good. Because of how the game makes explosive damage phase through armor, it makes explosive weapons which should be good at area clearing also good at killing medium or heavy enemies. Like, how do you make assault rifles and smgs catch up to that without giving them all medium pen and tripling their damage?
Scorcher- auto grenade pistol gas grenades/incendiary impact/impact HMG supply pack both Gatling turrets light armor-siege ready ez comfy build to speed run illuminate on super helldive
Finally tired the Blitzer, something I’ve never liked or used after the first few times, and it absolutely crushes Illuminate. The stun gives me breathing room in a ton of situations. But yeah, you’re right, after a certain number of enemies, it won’t keep up.
Anyone else getting different results with the blitzer. I can stun lock 4 overseers at times which is why I run it to pin them down since most people I end up running with have issues killing them.
Yes, I consistently stun lock overseers and elevated overseers from the first shot. Excellent in 1vs1 or 1vs2 scenarios. Though when they're interspersed with say a ton of vote less I tend to simply use my machine gun. The machine gun is very versatile against the illuminate as it can deal with everything reasonably well.
Overseers has 600 HP. Voteless has 100 HP. Watcher has 600 HP. Harvestors have 3k HP. But how are they so durable? Well. Armor plates only transfer an exceedingly small. Overseers armor plates only transfer 20% of the damage taken. It's why they can survive 1 Commando missile to the chest. Harvesters outer shells only transfers 5% of the damage taken. Maybe damage transfers to main HP is the main issue here? lol Maybe not on the Squids, though Idk, their resilience feels a little wild to me, but mobs from bots or bugs explains a whole lot while a lot of guns feel like loaded bb guns.
@@michaelmcinally5899yup did its very good but just as good on illuminate but bugs is a no no for me like i said if you now how to use it it will be very good
I had a lot of success using the blitzer with the MG I'd have to say that stun was worth it. I do use a very high mobility build, so blitzer is more viable for my build than most.
I generally agree with this list. Most primaries suck really bad because they cannot do enough things. I run Sickle mainly because of the general use vs all enemies ships, ammo economy, and accuracy most of all. Chipping armor and hitting body with pinpoint accuracy makes taking out Overseers less of a chore, and being able to reliably melt Watchers makes it incredible for me. That being said, gas grenades are standard in my builds and I ALWAYS run the med MG for Harvesters and chaff clear.
Because we have gameplay experience to prove him wrong, this guy has wrong takes on so many weapons. I dont mean any hate but I genuinely think hes just playing wrong if he cant use more than 2 weapons.
@@PuddleSpout they just not fun to use , i have like 7 mags on liberator that breaks medium armor and have to use half of the magazine if not all to just kill one enemy or 7-8 bullets for simple chaff . I hope they either buff all primary weapons AGAIN or make weapon upgrade system like HD1 did
The blitzer being useless at close range really needs to be fixed. As does the inconsistency with the arc thrower. I can get a half dozen consecutive duds.
At the end of the day. I really don't think your choice of primary weapon matters that much to be honest. Primarys and secondarys are there to provide utility or cover gaps in your loadout. It's really your support weapon and stratagem choices that matter
I think they need to find a different way of making rifles good without changing the armor pen cause like 90% of the weapons would be medium pen. I think they should keep the stat diversity which in this case is the armor pen but maybe they can increase the damage or durable damage, give more magazines or give all rifles drum mags or something like that. On top of that some weapons should absolutely just outright be better than others in order for players starting out to feel the progression when they start unlocking better and better weapons.
@@zedus4042dont they have like a few damage mechsnics in the game? Like they could buff the durable damage with the ARs and give SMG more flesh damage something like that like certain ammo shreds flesh while others penetrate armour
Harvesters being easily killed on the legs with AP3 was a mistake; this was supposed to be the faction to make AP3 irrelevant over AP2, and they didn't even get that right. I appreciate you putting the Sickle in B Tier at least, but I honestly believe the ST-AR is worth at least C Tier if only because of the higher ammo capacity VS the other inferior ARs.
OhDough and Eravin are the only Helldivers channels that tell it as it is lol every other channel gives unnecessary participation points all over their videos
I've never seen someone struggle to not sound like an asshat as much as OhDough does. Seriously, he's informed and knows a lot about the game. He also cares deeply about improving the game. He's been right about a lot of things before, although he's had more massive L takes lately. He's just so obsessed with being a contrarian to this strawman "average player" that it undermines his intentions completely. Unfortunately, he is literally the spitting image of the Redditor stereotype everyone hates. "You can disagree with me, but if you do you're a freaking moron" type energy before anyone's even said anything. I'm not sure if he even respects himself enough to care about conveying his intentions clearly, because he gets such a massive high off of being divisive.
@@kriegcoreit's funny you call him "reddit personified" when redditors incessantly glaze this game beyond belief and unironically think most of the weapons in this game are good
@@dot0lOnly people who haven't been on the reddit believe this. This belief is effectively propaganda doing a perfect job. I browse the HD2 news there sometimes. There have been extreme swings of both "it's so over" and "we're so back" for so long that it's become the most common meme there. There is a variety of both opinions that make it to the top, but sadly rarely in between because nobody listens to anything that isn't overt. Most reasonable people are just trying to have fun, which inherently makes the Reddit more positive than it appears to be negative. It's just that opinions similar to OhDough's try to undermine the efforts of people who want to have a nuanced opinion by oversimplifying anything that isn't inherently negative (good or not) and saying it's "glazed". Anything that doesn't either fully agree with or fully contradict him may as well not exist. It encourages people to be angry and ironically 'glaze over' the point of many things that would have otherwise been constructive criticism. He feeds off of negativity and encourages others to do the same, because he likes being contrarian. You can be critical without being aggressive toward everything.
@@ivannevarez9174I used to really enjoy his content too. Especially when the game really was down in the dumps where nothing felt good to use, and he was a voice of reason during that time. Nowadays, it's just totally out of hand. As someone who went from really hating the gameplay after the nerf fiesta, to now having lots of fun despite some things still needing improvement, I'm constantly catching strays from this channel for enjoying myself when I just want to be informed.
I understand this is geared towards single player but I think a lot of people aren't considering it. I play as a team and so we don't need every single player to be able to solo the mission, and if you specialise, you suddenly don't need your primary to deal with everything on its own. For example, within my team, 2 people are already able to deal with damaging tripods and overseers, so I like to bring the arc thrower. It can deal with hordes, kill overseers relatively fast whilst also stun locking them from super far away, stunlocks tripods too. It can hold down a chokepoint on its own basically. So I like to bring the tenderiser as a primary because it's good at taking shields and killing scout drones from afar. Using the same weapons all the time also gets very boring for me. I can't deny that the purifier and the crossbow are insanely good, against any faction, and I do sometimes feel like I'm trolling if I don't use them because they're just that good. But it just gets boring man.
Punisher plasma should be an easy S tier, you get decent magazine size, good aoe that can stun. The fact you can stagger overseers and prevent them from attacking altogether says a lot
Ngl purifier with the stalwart is goted beyond comparison. Also I think if the plasma punisher had ether more damage or applied the stun graniade effect but with less shots than it has now would make it better in general.
generally speaking, grenades, orbital strikes, and turrets just do a better job at chaff clearing than using a primary or support weapon meant for that role. The only primary/support weapons I field are those that can deal with the tankier special enemies b/c said weapons are the most efficient way to deal with them.
5:20 this is kind of why I'm so bored of the game. You've got hordes of enemies... but you're constantly reloading... and you've got low ammo... which then the resupply strategem also has a 2.5 mins CD... So this game ends up promoting you to not fight your to objectives but to basically lead enemies on a chase and then just pop in to complete objectives. It's just unsatisfying overall.
There’s tons of ammo all over the city, more so than bots/bugs maps. Most of the time I don’t need to use a resupply because i just need to turn a corner for ammo
@@lingoringo2328 Alpha commanders and really large spawns are a relatively new thing. Can't remember what 3-4 months ago had tbh. But the introduction of Alpha Commanders as a pure replacement for Commanders has made it more tedious
@@Denzio. If you're in the city, and if you happen across those areas. But you're still doing heaps of running and reloading, doesn't change that fact.
@GameFuMaster I'm talking about the fact that nearly everything in the game required more damage to kill because damage values were lower and you'd spend a long time running around waiting for cooldowns to go off so you could kill the 8th hulk buster you've had to fight in 3 minutes
@@f687sNFM Against the Illuminate, you can't rely on just a primary weapon. The Illuminate have made it necessary to figure out what weapons work together the best. (Sickle & Laser Cannon, Blitzer & Arc Thrower with Guard Dog Rover, Crossbow & Stalwart, etc...)
I think a lot of people look at these tierlists and think the placements are a lot more dramatic then they actually are. The order of these rankings is probably acurate, but that doesn't mean that the lower ranked weapons are necessarily completely unusable. If you are experienced with them and build around them, most of these weapons can perform well enough for you to complete high difficulty missions. The weapons at the top are just easier to be effective with, not the only weapons that work at all.
yea i noticed most folks are saying everything is amazing,... while never showing themselves being mobbed to prove it and as suggested they depend on their stratagems or team to make up for their primaries shortfalls.... personally i wont rate any primary above C tier, one reason is because i rate weapons on both their effectiveness and "fun" factor, this is why i refuse to use the crossbow, though it is indeed effective i dont find it very fun, i find it rather boring in use, especially when im trying to make sense of why everything else suks by comparison to the crossbow. i also dont like the plasma based weapons, i just dont like their effects or mechanics, same reason i never use the rail gun, i just like old school mob clearing with a old school primary as my bread and butter, everything else is secondary and their to help during a pinch, defensive setup or taking out the big enemies etc. i find primaries all feel spreadsheet balanced and nerfed since i last played vs all factions... light armor pen should only be for smg's (unless using different tech eg plasma etc), were smg's should all be 1H viable, be optionable as a primary with a larger mag and mag count, or secondary with a smaller mag and mag count and redesign all the pistols to be bigger to accommodate the increased caliber sizes that make them all medium pen by default with good up close stopping power, so secondary slot is about picking between medium pen pistol types, tech variants or a more pew pew light armor pen smg types. assault rifles should all be medium pen, have upgrades to install drum mags etc, snipers should be medium to heavy pen, have double the current mag size, depending on calibre, but for anything that cant kill in 1 hit = should have a nock back proportional to the calibre unless its a tank etc, the eruptor should be based around a semi auto 50cal, which is medium pen by default, 5 rounds, but you can switch to a secondary fire mode that needs you to manually cycle but can shoot a heavy pen AP explosive rounds. shotguns like the slugger should have way more damage, can pen multiple light armor enemies, improved accuracy and decent nock back like a sniper when it doesn't kill, with secondary fire mode that basically uses a version of the eruptors heavy AP explosive ammo, but gives the slugger a big kick back, recoil and slower rate of fire, while other pump shotguns should have a a more focused spread improving ranged accuracy, with a slight damage boost and a secondary slug ammo option that allows them to shoot slugs with medium pen, so basically become a slugger, with no eruptor ammo option, with light pen but faster rate of pump fire for trash mobs, with better focused spread for increased range effectiveness or slugger mode when mid sized enemies show up. shotguns like the breaker and drum variants should all use special buckshot by default with med pen with fast ammo dumps, but high spread, so up close they wreck everything, but like at current further out the become less effective, logically it would make sense to be able to do slug ammo, but then it does make the pumps a tad obsolete unless you give them some special secondary ammo to compensate, eg like i suggested with the slugger. i also think most the orbitals and eagles should be much bigger in effect + more damage eg bigger explosions more AP, but with a longer cool down were they are intended for mob clearing and are much more effective at mob clearing, so its more a preference to your method or were certain niche situations some are better then others or vs certain factions... eg i think eagles should be better vs bugs due to lack of AA, orbitals vs bots as they have AA and illuminate its in the middle,. precision orbitals like the railgun i think should fire 2 shots and have 2 uses before CD, the orbital laser should last twice as long, have a larger AOE damage area, leave flames on the ground that burn a while = effective but could also wipe your team easily if used in emergency. sentries should have 10 times the current ammo pool, have better aim (most currently shoot air or walls) have a 15min lifespan before despawn so which every comes first ammo depletion or 15min, 5min CD timer. flamethrower needs 2-3 times the range and a fire option that makes it as is currently but leaves behind a much longer lasting fire trail, stalwart should be a primary, medium and heavy mg's need option to tripod when prone or when next to a window or waist height wall etc(this crap has been done even game mods 20+ years old, it aint hard!) so its better then going prone. etc etc etc... game needs a total overhaul and the spreadsheet balancing needs to go... currently you cant trust them when they buff anything, as they just ofset it with enemy spawns and enemy stat tweaks that turn most buffs into nerfs other then within niche options, eg recoilless, sticky nade etc.
It got colossally buffed in a previous patch. On release it was almost objectively worse than the scorcher, but now its a top tier for bots and illuminates, and even performs halfway decent against bugs.
PSA About the Blitzer: Its a trash tier weapon if you aim DIRECTLY AT THE ENEMY - stop doing this. Instead, aim above the target and let the electricity arc down into the enemies for delicious killing power and stunning goodness. This also applies but less severely for the arc thrower. Electricity likes following the path of least resistance and the ground should never be the closest thing - make it the enemies skull instead.
I’ve been using the new SMG but it’s definitely sub optimal. I typically like to use the Adjudicator but the recoil often keeps me from loving it. We really need more medium pen primaries. Ffs!
Breaker spray and pray is not that bad if we only use it for crowd control and breaking ship shileds. Also very satisfying to use. Would be better with increased ergonomics.
I do breaker cen and it pairs well with grenade pistol and recoilless. GP for overseers, medium. Problem is if you miss the flying dudes. They’re pretty challenging to hit with grenade pistol.
I've tried purifier and xbow and honestly i would rank xbow above purifier, no charge means the gun is snappier, consistent two shot for overseers and its ability to destroy spawners sometimes lets you destroy an entire camp without even getting close. I guess it just feels more satisfying for me to use Also because of the insane blast radius sometimes you can kill 3-4 overseers grouped together in two shots which is awesome
The purifier is way easier to use and land shots for Illuminate, but the crossbow has better utility, so obviously, this guy said purifier is better...
yeah, with the eruptor, you need to hit overseers right in the chest for a somewhat consistent one-shot, idk how this works, maybe more shrapnel damage
The only one I'd semi disagree with is Blitzer dive backwards or Jumppack back and it hits a bit more consistantly but it's really only good if you can't aim with normal guns but it's WAAAY better than Arc Thrower but it's good to know the Purifier is that great. MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too :)
Pretty bad take that a weapon is trash unless it can do everything tbh, the whole game is tradeoffs around taking stratagems to thin a crowd and weapons to deal with heavies or the reverse. Saying a weapon thats great at crowd clear is bad because its not as good against armour is missing the whole point of the way the game is designed.
ur saying the sickle, scorcher, torcher and the Jar 5 can do everything ? because clearly they can't, they're just good guns with good trade off, most of the guns in this game just don't have anything going for them
The amount of weapons we have and the amount that are the same or sick is insane. I wish they would focus on all the little things that need love in the game
Breaker was nice when I was running an arc thrower build. Arc takes care of everything but struggles when they get too close, and the breaker’s strong point is shredding anything up close so it worked out well. Takes out the shields really fast too. It’ll take more rounds than some others to kill an overseer but the fire rate makes up for it.
Couldn't have said it better about technical "viability". I absolutely despise how glazedivers, well, glazed constitution rifle by calling it "challenge" weapon. Shit can't even onetap in body zombie considering there is like 30 of them and you have magazine size of 5, what the fuck. Unless what they call "challenge" is to play without a primary weapon and having to overcompensate it with rest of loadout. Ridiculous.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
Bro i just want the reprimand to be accurate
Its accurate if you believe hard enough
Arrowhead logic is that an SMG has more recoil then a pistol in the same caliber
Yea. Either keep it 2 handed and make it accurate, or keep the current accuracy and make it 1H’d like a real smg.
@@mrtoestie2707A shield with the reprimand would be insane and would fix all of it's issues instantly. It will also just be awesome.
When a revolver is better at ad clear than an smg.
Arrow head logic: if a primary is medium pen, make it impossible to use.
There's an alarming amount of people who think making the primary weapons better will make the game "too easy" as if the game isn't already pretty easy, there just isn't much diversity on what's actually fun
Could likely be solved by adding a higher difficulty again
Some people just want to treat it like e-sports game no matter what, let's be honest.
But it is not.
And about primaries - true. But what I hate more is when people are glazing objectively mediocre guns because they find them "great".
Like "OMG, Sickle is sooo good"!! yeah, buddy, it was. 6 months ago maybe.
Or "Assault rifles are great! You're just bad!" Suuure, yeah😂
To be honest, the game is already too easy, dif 10 is not only possible, but rather trivial to solo with the right builds, where the original intent for dif 9 to be "barely possible to complete" (with a team)
Soo.. yeah the whining about primaries is silly, by reason of futility.
And you just know that the soydivers who never left difficulty 4 before the game got trivialized would unleash an endless tide of fatherlessness upon the devs if they were to just give us difficulties past 10, calling for their nerfs, yet alone rework the balance of the already-existing ones.
If you think the Blitzer has targeting issues, you should consider actually aiming.
@@necrobard
More like repositioning because the Blitzer will also hit dead bodies instead of of live ones.
I get the devs are very much in the world of 'we want things to be believable' so they want their ARs to be ARs and they want their LMGs to be LMGs.
This is the issue. . . Yes the liberator is a nice, believable, accurate assault rifle in the real world. However, this isn't a real world scenario. You're staring down tons of enemies, hordes of them if you will. So what is believable about such a low ammo count in a mag?
An AR like that vs the bugs isn't effective enough, it's not effective against the zombies either. You just don't have the ammo for the enemy count for it to be worth it in game, nevermind make sense in universe.
Like, against the bots? It's hard to use that kinda gun at all, med pen works a lot better against more of their troops vs the other factions (yes med pen is still great on the others just not as important).
I dunno why they're still stuck with believably. Maybe they're still balancing things for haz 5 or 6. But on 10? A lot of the AR mag capacity is not going to pan out.
Maybe their idea is that with team play you're geared to gun down the hordes of badmen, but it still doesn't feel worth it. I'd rather use the sickle over nearly any AR. The shotguns are far more reliable because of how fast they reload and how there's no ammo lost.
IDK, I don't get it
@@Snotnarok 60 minimum ammo count with med pen should be the standard for all ARs in this game. Then i might actually use them.
There's a trick with the Blitzer. If you aim a little high it'll target heads unstead of bodies due to the electric aimcone, one shotting voteless and stunning overseers. It's the same with the Arc Thrower, and you can use a similar trick with Hulks by aiming for their faceplate.
@@lord_toaster Arc Thrower can stun lock Harvesters as well. Takes as many shots to drop Harvesters as it does to drop Chargers & Hulks.
Personal thing about Blitzer, but...I find it incredibly boring. Like I'm not even playing the game. Gun aims for me, gun doesn't require reload, gun doesn't have alternative firing modes.
It's like bzzzt, bzzzt, bzzzt, bzzzt...repeat.
I'm not saying it's bad, just a personal feeling.
Give a like if you want them to start rifling the slugger barrels again.
i think crossbow is s tier. it 2 shots enemies like purifier and in my opinion its way better crowd control than purifier. when i rock the armor thats lets you reload faster and have like another shot for the crossbow i never seem to run out of ammo ands its just feels so good only thing is i feel like the purifier is easier to use.
Comment section hurts
It is cu razy how fucking glazed these lads are, they all in 4mans with their bro's thinking all this dogwater guns are amazing.
@@daztora Because we've done the research and have gameplay experience, as somebody who mostly plays solo most of these guns ARE good.
@@PuddleSpout Press X to doubt, most ARE trash and need slight buffs to big buffs.
@@PuddleSpout What research??? I've looked into several layers of information for EACH SINGLE WEAPON we have. The stats are eye rolling at best lol
@@PuddleSpoutI'd EWO before using the Liberator ever again. None of these guns except for the purifier have a place in HD2. The MG-43 is my almost always go-to against all of the primaries. My secondaries are more useful than these guns.
12:14 I KNEW THE SMG WAS GOOD
We need to rework assualt rifles dawg cause if I gotta tap the trigger to hit enemy weak points I might as well use the diligence or use explosive weapons 😔
Good change would to just make all ARs med pen. Literally 0 point in using then when smgs are also light pen and are arguably better horde clearers
@ yea full agree better we can do some damage then none with our weapons
@@FierroAiden just fixed my typos lmao hope you understood it before but yeah I’m expecting this change eventually. Even irl assault rifles are med pen(majority not all)
Just lower the difficulty if you're having issues
@@FierroAiden agreed!
That smg kill count example at the end was fried gold 😂
The fucking gas grenade clip has me rolling at the end
Seems this tierlist is for solo super helldive. While weapons like the Halt and the Punisher are better in teamplay, where you can disable and stun enemies so other teammates can take them down, you don't get that luxury in solo super helldive. Everything you do has to kill. In solo superhelldive, killing is more important that utility because you don't have anyone but yourself to follow up on that utility. On that front, most of the time, you can't ever follow up on your own utility. So the phrase "You could stun them... or you could just kill them" is more applicable since just stunning the enemy *isn't enough when playing solo.* You *need* to kill them in solo instead, otherwise you're just wasting time that you don't have.
Cripsy cream take.
Actually a good take considering that the team play is and should be very much considered in this game.
@@daztora Blud is THE rage baiter.
No one in randoms plays the game as a team, playing with buds is a completely different game, anything is S tier if you group with friends. Randos will play meta and fuck off on their own. Holy fucking cope
The team play in this game is selfish which iirc ohdough mentioned, hence why his list goes through mostly.
Everyone uses stratagems in tandem with their primary/secondary but there’s a difference between having a purifier and support/offensive stratagems (with purifier helping against most chaff), and having lets say counter sniper with stalwart as chaff clear
Efficiency
Is that the Slugger actually out of basement tier?
Crossbow not being S-tier is criminal seeing as it can 1 shot overseers, shoots instantly with no need to premeditate it's firing, on top of synergizing wayyyyy too well with the jetpack now that we can aim with it.. oh yeah, it also blows up ships, and lets you fire whilst carrying objective gear, just to top it off with some major utility.
Really hope its one of those 'lets not tell the devs what is good so they dont nerf it' cases lol, by far the dumbest weapon in the game, best pick for two out of three factions.
Also merry xmass~
I mean, this is the same guy who was adamant that the crossbow was still not good after the buffs, despite LITERALLY EVERYONE ELSE IN THE COMMUNITY DISAGREEING. It was only days and days later that he actually finally relented when he made another tier list after that patch placing it much higher. If that isn't willful ignorance, I don't know what is.
I think it's great but I hate how it skims off the flat terrain of the city environment when you go for ground shots.
@@scoople6 4 fixes for that:
1) jet-pack - the current meta pick for the illuminate at this point, you really dont need the ammo pack lol;
2) simply having high ground, you really dont need much there, the projectiles are already edging their bounces even with just helldiver gun-height, standing on a crate removes the issue completely;
3) just shooting a teeeeeny bit closer to yourself when possible, this prevents the concrete ricochets in all relevant cases, unless you just find yourself trying to snipe one or two voteless with the gun often.. which i think is a poor decision to begin with;
4) ooooor just shooting the enemy outright, usually shooting an enemy somewhat deep in the group is the go to regardless, and its not like the crossbow has awful ballistics, that thing has so little drop its crazy.
@@Excallius243 hence my speculation in regards to pretending it not the best gun in the game by a decently wide margin.. like we did some months back when the devs were nerf-happy. Unsure though lol
4:34 I think the Adjudicator would perform better for you if you hit a single bullet in that magazine.
Fr, legit had to pause the vid after I saw ts
So true!
Gun handling is a big deal. Same with HMG and Reprimand.
If automatic weapon makes shooting itself a challenge - it's not that fun (imo).
I'm trying to fight enemies, not my gun😂
It kills them in 3 headshots but yeah its quite hard to hit them.
The lack of experience on full display for everyone to see, and barely anyone notices. Glazers everywhere you look...
I have been using the Crossbow, mostly. Gotta say, the flying overseers and the watchers are a pain in the ass to hit sometimes though.
take revolver for those flying ones, one shot head shot them and you're golden. Since you already have crossbow, you won't need grenade pistol anyway.
I’ve found that every primary is good if you bring an arc thrower. (You won’t be needing to use a primary)
Best if you bring a good long ranged primary (i swear by DCS myself) for the occational situation where you may want to shoot something distant (typically watchers)
Crossbow is S tier. Just bring the redeemer to pop shields. Two shots on overseers. If you feel like you don't have enough ammo pick up the new armor set that boosts reload speed and capacity. I rock this and I feel like I don't even need strategems or support weapons although I carry a spear just to one shot harvesters reliably.
I guess he was in an extra sour mood today if the crossbow didn't even make it to s-tier.
It's still crazy how purifier went from THE worst weapon to goated weapon on all front!
Still mad about the Eruptor. The crossbow is one hand that can shot faster does more damage and still has a very high blast radius... like how tf does that make any sense?
There should be multiple tiers within F tier itself if there's that many down at the bottom
Crossbow is S tier all day. Can't take you seriously if you think otherwise.
Somehow I really like the tenderizer. When used with the AMR you have great stuff for most situations unless you like fighting very big hordes of enemies. Tenderizer and Sickle were so far the most fun primaries for me. And then I had the wasp launcher or amr for the medium+ enemies.
Tenderizer has been my go to primary as well. Been running it with the ballistic guard dog and AMR with it, very flexible. For big hordes I've been bringing the new flame sentry +gas grandes. So long as a harvester doesn't beam it down big hordes are no problem
The squids don’t like it then you take out their toes and the tenderiser does a fine job of 1-shot kneecapping all voteless , can kill an overseer in 8-10 shots (1-second) to the legs, 16 to the chest and due to moderate DPS can kill a lander shield in around 22 hits.
Dough dismisses the full auto weapons out of hand hoping for improvements and while they do need more than they can drill most weak spots at many ranges to little recoil.
shotguns have ~20% more damage per total ammo but way more boom per shot, likewise the basic diligence, the jar is a diligence with double the bullet damage and AP3 but less magazines. The purifier if always charged is count double the on hit damage vs any other primary while also having an AoE.
The AR simply lack the double capacity magazines that the shotguns n DMR enjoy vs their IRL counterpart but damage down range they only “need” a 10% -20% buff to a stat line to become capable weapons rather than a little lacking.
Net result is that the AR have sone of the lowest total damage in the game excepting the explosive/AoE weapons (which all have AP3 explosions) so between their full auto and lower damage potential they burn through their ammo stupidly fast for no real gain vs other weapons.
the game needs enemies with a lot of health but no armor and it needs to add hollow point ammo for light pen weapons to be worth taking
also overpenetration on the weaker enemies for medium pen weapons
Nice list. I spent a lot of time when the squids dropped trying out different primaries and found that most of them felt pretty bad because they either were always running out of ammo too quickly (lots of voteless) or couldn't kill Overseers in a timeframe or ammo count I enjoyed. Dominator + Peak Physique saved me by allowing me to one tap their heads. I hope other weapons get buffed or overseers get tweaked to allow more guns to be good on squids.
I find the free SMG they gave us really fun. Is it optimal? Hell no, but man it feels so good
This right here. It feels good to shoot then damn thing. And I dont have to pony up the extra 20$ for similar one handed smg.
Besides, few players are using anti tanks against squids so might as well use those AP3/4 support weapons.
Overseers melts from all 3 machine guns, Flamers etc. It gives good variety to the faction (in this current state).
The Plasma purifier is the absolute best option if you want versatility, its also worth mentioning that every charged shot on an unshielded harvester will stagger them A LOT and you can effectively stun lock them with repeated charges. It is also capable of stun locking every other squid unit. It's just difficult to master due to the poor handling and it demands great precision, missing charged shots is PAINFUL
Glaze-divers: "You can do Super Helldive with (x) weapon, its viable and works just fine."
Translation for people with common sense:
"Guys, guys; the Liberator is an outstanding weapon you can beat super helldive with it, i did it myself. Just please ignore the fact that for 90% of the mission i didnt even have it pulled out and 99% of my kills were gotten with strategems, secondaries, support weapons, and literally anything but the Liberator."
(Liberator can be replaced with any of the many, many terrible weapons we have)
Just remember that if a weapon is bad at difficulty 10, its bad at difficulty 0 too, you're just slapping some glaze goggles on by limiting missions to only having 3-5 enemies at a time that just so happen to be the enemies you can "viably" kill with a toothpick if you try hard enough. A weapon that makes you have to limit/handicap yourself from the rest of the game by essentially getting rid of the majority of gameplay elements and variety (enemies are a gameplay element) is a bad weapon. If it cannot participate effectively in the majority of the game, its not good; its like calling the baseball player that's never played on the field because he cant hold the bat, a player; hes not a player, he's a seat warmer at best and he's on the roster to just make it look bigger.
I think you look at primary weapons in a vacuum too much. If you have been playing the game long enough you know that primaries arent your main heavy lifter. They are best for situations like picking off enemies your strategem don't kill, situations that using a strategem will be a waste and survival/utility purposes. No one, but clickbait channels are claiming that they kill 9999999999 enemies with some D tier crap.
@@puffer_frog I think that's what primaries were meant to be from the beginning, but some, like the purifier and crossbow are so overtuned that now they are the expectation. But it gets boring to use one of 2 weapons all the time.
By all accounts the Eruptor should be good vs the Illuminate. It just isn't. Can we have the OG back? Please and thank you.
I feel like the newer version works way better for it's intended purpose of ranged crowd clearing. It isn't supposed to be a pocket support weapon.
yeah with the shrapnel it would've been great
U realize it has shrapnel right?@@bigmemer4398
Bit of a note but all the voteless die to any 1 hit of over 130 dmg (80 on the legs) but have a 10 or seconds bleed out so all the marksmen rifles do one shot them but it's not that helpful up close for that reason
Flying snitch roomba I love it
If my brain was a flower this comment section is the poison making it wilt
you can switch the halt to stun mode and stun every overseer as they're crowding the skies, makes it a lot easier to address the voteless or harvesters.
plas 39 is garbo. I'm so sad the first sniper primary we got is bad.
Needs more damage or more ammo or both head hunter type weapon but if you can't kill the medium enemies then there's no point using it when you have 15 coming twords you
@discountcobracommander2494 the diligence does a better job than it in terms of head hunting, eruptor and crossbow are better in just AOE explosive uses. It has no use right now
You really need to learn how to use the blitzer. The devs still need to fix its targeting and hitting dead bodies/random objects, though. They already fixed it before, then the big buff update broke it, and the arc thrower...
I have noticed, at least with the illuminate, they have it so it ignores the voteless which stumble around after a death to the Blitzer.
Though i'm guessing it's still buggy on the other two factions?
Ajudicator is actually a really solid weapon, imo. 2 headshots an Overseer (very easy with single / tap firing) + automatic fire for Voteless hordes + great at taking out Harvester or Outpost shields quickly. Can still take out the Harvester horns in a pinch too - though Railgun is so nice against them that I can usually kill it before the shield can come back anyway. Also handy for dealing with Watchers quickly with little ammo needed - compared to the Purifier, which needs to deal with the time it takes to charge up a full shot, or risk spamming an entire clip if there's not enough time for that before it calls a reinforcement. Pair the Adjudicator with the Siege Ready armor for the extra ammo + increased reload speed and you've got a really solid primary. Surprised to see as low as it is on this list - I think it deserves to be in low A, below the Scorcher at least.
Wow, look at that, a realistic weapon ranking. Tired of all the "ThIs GuN iS aMaZiNg" glaze when 90% of their kills aren't coming from their primary. It's fine if you like it, but that doesn't mean it's objectively great.
it surprises me the comments of people saying -add weapon here- is S or A tier if you -add support or stratagem here- he testing the weapons based on what that weapon can do not what it pairs with.
I like the Scythe, I like all of the beam style weapons, doesn't mean I should sit here and claim these weapons are S tier like so many people do. They're maybe a high C at best. Wish the community was more realistic about things and less about "This game is the greatest thing ever and it does literally nothing wrong!"
I think you had problems with the Blitzer for a couple of reasons. Most importantly is that the weapon is very sensitive to how you are aiming it (up or down angle) as well as keeping within an optimal hit range (not too close, not too far). Once you get used to how the weapon performs it becomes very functional in handling and mowing down swarms of voteless easily hitting 50 kill streaks without much issue (no gas, no sentry, no rover, just blitzer), but you really have to know how to get the most out of it. This means knowing when to dive around to take advantage of that optimal distance. And unless an overseer had their arm shield up, I never once saw it not stun them as there is a very noticeable animation when they get stunned (holds hand to face for a moment with a slouch).
Having a complimenting loadout helps keeping swarms to barely noticeable, hardly an inconvenience. Would suggest at least one slot going to a sentry or Guard rover if you're going to use a Blitzer, but if you're very comfortable with optimal use this isn't necessary as I've run with Recoilless and no sentry also to instead focus on taking out ships/encampments/harvesters easier. If you don't know the optimal hit box to include angling up/down to spread/narrow the way it shoots it becomes less useful. The biggest draw backs in my experience with Blitzer is that it will still hit bodies/foliage over enemies along with being less useful if too close/far, and it does not remove shields on Harvester/ships. It can pass through shields on harvester and do enough damage to kill it if aiming at it's eye area, but you end up in a danger zone due to the harvesters secondary arc weapon and it does not stun harvesters (done this in oh shit situations, not recommended). Dive+shoot tactics become pretty important with using blitzer too.
I would grade it at a low B/high C rank weapon depending on user (this goes much lower the less experienced with blitzer a user is)
Pros:
Unlimited ammo
Stun/crowd control
Multi-hit
Cons:
Prone to arcing on friendlies
Very hit box control dependent (distance and angle)
Doesn't destroy shields, but bypasses them. (this is a con because the same is true for our shield packs)
Suggestions:
Best used with sentry/Guard rover but not necessary.
If buddied up with team, make sure they know to stay behind you, not running in front to avoid friendly fire.
Know the hit box and how to manipulate it to get the best use of the weapon.
Blitzer is better than described, but not that great. It's done what I expected it to do, provide crowd control with the stagger effect. It doesn't kill fast, but it doesn't need to most of the time as they can't get to you as they are staggered. Infinite ammo means you can just continue to chain this until they eventually die. HOWEVER there are times when there is too many at too wide a radius to all stagger them as you need them to be because of the firing delay.
Probably a solid B.
Same reason Cookout is once again in at least B tier. I think it kills faster than the Blitzer, but doesn't have unlimited ammo.
Technically it's a "good" thing if any weapon gets buffed, even if its already good.
Wtf the car with no tires is a drift machine!!
Need a drift gamemode
Not sure we have the same experience with the blitzer because it really does stun overseer’s off rib. And the fact that you basically can’t miss or reload with it got ignored which is weird since you mention mag size and aim requirements for other guns.
Some people just can't employ pattern recognition on the lightning. The direction it strikes out may as well be magic to them, and it's not effective
How is your gameplay with the blitzer that bad? I one shot all voteless and usually kill at least 3 to 4 minimum per shot and never get hit in return. It also staggers overseers and can kill them pretty decently quick too. It’s overall a great weapon minus not being able to down shields with it but use a stratagem for those anyway
Yeah, I rack up a ton of Illuminate kills with the Blitzer. Just pair it with the Guard Dog Rover & it's perfectly fine.
@ exactly
It gets better with the ship module for arcs too
11:35 to 11:50 for both of you
@@ungobungo7986 he's still wrong. first day illuminate show up and i can't fight them with anything but the blitzer now. it's amazing when me and my friends are just wiping everything out with lightning and explosives
Definitely will be referring to this video to help decide what warbond to unlock next, many thanks OhDough
Mr. Dough thanks for being the one of the few youtubers that want to be realistic when it come to things like this
Funny how they buff underrated weapons like purifier after released yet almost all existing ARs left behind and still trash in all fronts.
i like the Sta-11 because i use it for chaff and taking down shields, then i use AMR for anything armored, id say it pairs really well with power weapons but not as your main for everything
I think the accelerator rifle needs, A. more ammo capacity, like an extra shot, so 4 in total that way you can deal with 2 overseers in one clip. Or B. more damage in order to one shot them if you hit all three shots in one burst.
Given that it's a collab weapon, I can't speak about how it is in the original game, but I wish they could just do away with the 3 round burst. The first shot staggers the enemy and causes the next to either miss or hit away from the critical region. Plus that damage falloff is just ouch.
It’s meant to be a 1-1 of the gun from kz2 so more damage is probably what’s gonna be added. 350 per bullet instead of 350 per if you land all 3
It needs to remove burst fire all together. What kind of cabbage designs a burst fire sniper rifle that has *aggressive* damage falloff?
FYI: Crossbow one-shots Overseers to the head.
I'm not sure if this is implied by how you said it in the video- (and i'm sure you know!) but it's an important point to make.
If you haven't alerted everyone yet, you can take out a flying guy before he starts being all evasive, and two shots on a shield will take out the Overseer behind it- With enough splash that it'll probably take out the guy next to him too.
Being one-handed is great for the black box retrieval and all that- but it also means you can run and gun WAY easier, which makes it an explosive option you can reliably use against the hoard.
No arguments about the ammo count though. Hurts.
But there's gotta be a compromise somewhere! I usually stay stocked up enough with PoIs.
works well when combine with MG, guard rover and gas
Arrow head devs not seasoning theyre food is why th game was bland unintresting, then they added some spices and every1 came bavk
SMGs and Rifles NEED to get a meaningful buff or rework and not like + 10 DMG but something that'll actually make them efficiently viable in tough situations.
Like sometimes I just wanna play a more typical firearm like full auto rifle or SMG but those are just not very good in Helldivers 2 right now.
Honestly base damage isn't going to fix them, clearly, look at how they "buffed" the ARs and SMGs during the 60 day patches, 5-10 points of damage into each but somehow they still suck, AH is missing something and simply adding base damage clearly isn't going to cut it. They either need to fit their place in the game as nothing more than glorified secondaries to our stratagems OR they need to remove the armor system, full stop.
I think the plasma and explosive weapons are just so overtuned that you can't realistically make rifles catch up without making them all stupidly good. Because of how the game makes explosive damage phase through armor, it makes explosive weapons which should be good at area clearing also good at killing medium or heavy enemies. Like, how do you make assault rifles and smgs catch up to that without giving them all medium pen and tripling their damage?
ARs are still doggo, what a surprise
Merry Christmas
Scorcher- auto
grenade pistol
gas grenades/incendiary impact/impact
HMG
supply pack
both Gatling turrets
light armor-siege ready
ez comfy build to speed run illuminate on super helldive
Finally tired the Blitzer, something I’ve never liked or used after the first few times, and it absolutely crushes Illuminate. The stun gives me breathing room in a ton of situations. But yeah, you’re right, after a certain number of enemies, it won’t keep up.
Anyone else getting different results with the blitzer. I can stun lock 4 overseers at times which is why I run it to pin them down since most people I end up running with have issues killing them.
Yes, I consistently stun lock overseers and elevated overseers from the first shot. Excellent in 1vs1 or 1vs2 scenarios. Though when they're interspersed with say a ton of vote less I tend to simply use my machine gun. The machine gun is very versatile against the illuminate as it can deal with everything reasonably well.
Overseers has 600 HP. Voteless has 100 HP. Watcher has 600 HP. Harvestors have 3k HP.
But how are they so durable? Well. Armor plates only transfer an exceedingly small.
Overseers armor plates only transfer 20% of the damage taken. It's why they can survive 1 Commando missile to the chest.
Harvesters outer shells only transfers 5% of the damage taken.
Maybe damage transfers to main HP is the main issue here? lol
Maybe not on the Squids, though Idk, their resilience feels a little wild to me, but mobs from bots or bugs explains a whole lot while a lot of guns feel like loaded bb guns.
They need to turn the recoil down on some of these guns. The recoil on the adjudicator is way too high.
Nah man its about the secondarys. Just use the verdict. It only takes like a full mag to kill one overseer, but like profit
Senator one-shots them and can kill harvesters
@@48Dacmanif you can get a headshot and how many shots does have to take to kill a harvester by the joints?
The plas 39 is amazing but take a starwart for the crowd clear and only use the plas for bigger enemies like overseers or harvesters
If you dont know how to use it it will suck
Try it on automatons bro, gunships get toasted, and if you can tame the recoil and hit heads it's one bursting devs from under 100m
@@michaelmcinally5899yup did its very good but just as good on illuminate but bugs is a no no for me like i said if you now how to use it it will be very good
I had a lot of success using the blitzer with the MG I'd have to say that stun was worth it. I do use a very high mobility build, so blitzer is more viable for my build than most.
I generally agree with this list. Most primaries suck really bad because they cannot do enough things. I run Sickle mainly because of the general use vs all enemies ships, ammo economy, and accuracy most of all. Chipping armor and hitting body with pinpoint accuracy makes taking out Overseers less of a chore, and being able to reliably melt Watchers makes it incredible for me. That being said, gas grenades are standard in my builds and I ALWAYS run the med MG for Harvesters and chaff clear.
Lotta glazers in this comment section I tell you hwat
Because we have gameplay experience to prove him wrong, this guy has wrong takes on so many weapons. I dont mean any hate but I genuinely think hes just playing wrong if he cant use more than 2 weapons.
preview the ending of the vid. you're clueless bud.
@@PuddleSpout they just not fun to use , i have like 7 mags on liberator that breaks medium armor and have to use half of the magazine if not all to just kill one enemy or 7-8 bullets for simple chaff . I hope they either buff all primary weapons AGAIN or make weapon upgrade system like HD1 did
The blitzer being useless at close range really needs to be fixed. As does the inconsistency with the arc thrower. I can get a half dozen consecutive duds.
At the end of the day. I really don't think your choice of primary weapon matters that much to be honest. Primarys and secondarys are there to provide utility or cover gaps in your loadout. It's really your support weapon and stratagem choices that matter
All AR should be medium pen in my opinion, while the penetrator should be heavy.
Funny joke
@@Barix14 Nah its W, AR's are garbo
@Barix14 wasn't a joke, but I'm glad you found it funny
I think they need to find a different way of making rifles good without changing the armor pen cause like 90% of the weapons would be medium pen. I think they should keep the stat diversity which in this case is the armor pen but maybe they can increase the damage or durable damage, give more magazines or give all rifles drum mags or something like that.
On top of that some weapons should absolutely just outright be better than others in order for players starting out to feel the progression when they start unlocking better and better weapons.
@@zedus4042dont they have like a few damage mechsnics in the game? Like they could buff the durable damage with the ARs and give SMG more flesh damage something like that like certain ammo shreds flesh while others penetrate armour
Harvesters being easily killed on the legs with AP3 was a mistake; this was supposed to be the faction to make AP3 irrelevant over AP2, and they didn't even get that right.
I appreciate you putting the Sickle in B Tier at least, but I honestly believe the ST-AR is worth at least C Tier if only because of the higher ammo capacity VS the other inferior ARs.
OhDough and Eravin are the only Helldivers channels that tell it as it is lol
every other channel gives unnecessary participation points all over their videos
I've never seen someone struggle to not sound like an asshat as much as OhDough does. Seriously, he's informed and knows a lot about the game. He also cares deeply about improving the game. He's been right about a lot of things before, although he's had more massive L takes lately. He's just so obsessed with being a contrarian to this strawman "average player" that it undermines his intentions completely.
Unfortunately, he is literally the spitting image of the Redditor stereotype everyone hates. "You can disagree with me, but if you do you're a freaking moron" type energy before anyone's even said anything. I'm not sure if he even respects himself enough to care about conveying his intentions clearly, because he gets such a massive high off of being divisive.
he is reddit personified.
@@kriegcoreit's funny you call him "reddit personified" when redditors incessantly glaze this game beyond belief and unironically think most of the weapons in this game are good
Yeah man he used to be a lot more upbeat. Think this is the last video of his I'm watching gonna find someone with a more positive attitude.
@@dot0lOnly people who haven't been on the reddit believe this. This belief is effectively propaganda doing a perfect job. I browse the HD2 news there sometimes. There have been extreme swings of both "it's so over" and "we're so back" for so long that it's become the most common meme there. There is a variety of both opinions that make it to the top, but sadly rarely in between because nobody listens to anything that isn't overt. Most reasonable people are just trying to have fun, which inherently makes the Reddit more positive than it appears to be negative.
It's just that opinions similar to OhDough's try to undermine the efforts of people who want to have a nuanced opinion by oversimplifying anything that isn't inherently negative (good or not) and saying it's "glazed". Anything that doesn't either fully agree with or fully contradict him may as well not exist.
It encourages people to be angry and ironically 'glaze over' the point of many things that would have otherwise been constructive criticism. He feeds off of negativity and encourages others to do the same, because he likes being contrarian. You can be critical without being aggressive toward everything.
@@ivannevarez9174I used to really enjoy his content too. Especially when the game really was down in the dumps where nothing felt good to use, and he was a voice of reason during that time. Nowadays, it's just totally out of hand. As someone who went from really hating the gameplay after the nerf fiesta, to now having lots of fun despite some things still needing improvement, I'm constantly catching strays from this channel for enjoying myself when I just want to be informed.
I understand this is geared towards single player but I think a lot of people aren't considering it. I play as a team and so we don't need every single player to be able to solo the mission, and if you specialise, you suddenly don't need your primary to deal with everything on its own. For example, within my team, 2 people are already able to deal with damaging tripods and overseers, so I like to bring the arc thrower. It can deal with hordes, kill overseers relatively fast whilst also stun locking them from super far away, stunlocks tripods too. It can hold down a chokepoint on its own basically. So I like to bring the tenderiser as a primary because it's good at taking shields and killing scout drones from afar. Using the same weapons all the time also gets very boring for me. I can't deny that the purifier and the crossbow are insanely good, against any faction, and I do sometimes feel like I'm trolling if I don't use them because they're just that good. But it just gets boring man.
I use the blitzer exclusively to kill oracles. Overseers can be solved with sticks and rocks, and incendiary work decently against voteless.
Punisher plasma should be an easy S tier, you get decent magazine size, good aoe that can stun. The fact you can stagger overseers and prevent them from attacking altogether says a lot
Ngl purifier with the stalwart is goted beyond comparison.
Also I think if the plasma punisher had ether more damage or applied the stun graniade effect but with less shots than it has now would make it better in general.
so purifiers shortcomming is shields, what special weapon would fill in?
Lmgs and explosives deal with shields quickly.
Idk stalwart or something
Strafe Eagle
any of the mgs
AMR
generally speaking, grenades, orbital strikes, and turrets just do a better job at chaff clearing than using a primary or support weapon meant for that role. The only primary/support weapons I field are those that can deal with the tankier special enemies b/c said weapons are the most efficient way to deal with them.
5:20 this is kind of why I'm so bored of the game. You've got hordes of enemies... but you're constantly reloading... and you've got low ammo... which then the resupply strategem also has a 2.5 mins CD... So this game ends up promoting you to not fight your to objectives but to basically lead enemies on a chase and then just pop in to complete objectives.
It's just unsatisfying overall.
Now imagine playing 3-4 months ago
There’s tons of ammo all over the city, more so than bots/bugs maps. Most of the time I don’t need to use a resupply because i just need to turn a corner for ammo
@@lingoringo2328 Alpha commanders and really large spawns are a relatively new thing.
Can't remember what 3-4 months ago had tbh.
But the introduction of Alpha Commanders as a pure replacement for Commanders has made it more tedious
@@Denzio. If you're in the city, and if you happen across those areas.
But you're still doing heaps of running and reloading, doesn't change that fact.
@GameFuMaster I'm talking about the fact that nearly everything in the game required more damage to kill because damage values were lower and you'd spend a long time running around waiting for cooldowns to go off so you could kill the 8th hulk buster you've had to fight in 3 minutes
mans literally said "if the primary doesnt make the use of a support unnecessary, then its good"
@@f687sNFM Against the Illuminate, you can't rely on just a primary weapon. The Illuminate have made it necessary to figure out what weapons work together the best. (Sickle & Laser Cannon, Blitzer & Arc Thrower with Guard Dog Rover, Crossbow & Stalwart, etc...)
except I didn't
So you watched a whole video of him testing the primaries by themselves and your take away was he wants overpowered weapons?
I was killing it with the crossbow!
I think a lot of people look at these tierlists and think the placements are a lot more dramatic then they actually are.
The order of these rankings is probably acurate, but that doesn't mean that the lower ranked weapons are necessarily completely unusable. If you are experienced with them and build around them, most of these weapons can perform well enough for you to complete high difficulty missions.
The weapons at the top are just easier to be effective with, not the only weapons that work at all.
yea i noticed most folks are saying everything is amazing,... while never showing themselves being mobbed to prove it and as suggested they depend on their stratagems or team to make up for their primaries shortfalls.... personally i wont rate any primary above C tier, one reason is because i rate weapons on both their effectiveness and "fun" factor, this is why i refuse to use the crossbow, though it is indeed effective i dont find it very fun, i find it rather boring in use, especially when im trying to make sense of why everything else suks by comparison to the crossbow.
i also dont like the plasma based weapons, i just dont like their effects or mechanics, same reason i never use the rail gun, i just like old school mob clearing with a old school primary as my bread and butter, everything else is secondary and their to help during a pinch, defensive setup or taking out the big enemies etc.
i find primaries all feel spreadsheet balanced and nerfed since i last played vs all factions... light armor pen should only be for smg's (unless using different tech eg plasma etc), were smg's should all be 1H viable, be optionable as a primary with a larger mag and mag count, or secondary with a smaller mag and mag count and redesign all the pistols to be bigger to accommodate the increased caliber sizes that make them all medium pen by default with good up close stopping power, so secondary slot is about picking between medium pen pistol types, tech variants or a more pew pew light armor pen smg types.
assault rifles should all be medium pen, have upgrades to install drum mags etc, snipers should be medium to heavy pen, have double the current mag size, depending on calibre, but for anything that cant kill in 1 hit = should have a nock back proportional to the calibre unless its a tank etc, the eruptor should be based around a semi auto 50cal, which is medium pen by default, 5 rounds, but you can switch to a secondary fire mode that needs you to manually cycle but can shoot a heavy pen AP explosive rounds.
shotguns like the slugger should have way more damage, can pen multiple light armor enemies, improved accuracy and decent nock back like a sniper when it doesn't kill, with secondary fire mode that basically uses a version of the eruptors heavy AP explosive ammo, but gives the slugger a big kick back, recoil and slower rate of fire, while other pump shotguns should have a a more focused spread improving ranged accuracy, with a slight damage boost and a secondary slug ammo option that allows them to shoot slugs with medium pen, so basically become a slugger, with no eruptor ammo option, with light pen but faster rate of pump fire for trash mobs, with better focused spread for increased range effectiveness or slugger mode when mid sized enemies show up.
shotguns like the breaker and drum variants should all use special buckshot by default with med pen with fast ammo dumps, but high spread, so up close they wreck everything, but like at current further out the become less effective, logically it would make sense to be able to do slug ammo, but then it does make the pumps a tad obsolete unless you give them some special secondary ammo to compensate, eg like i suggested with the slugger.
i also think most the orbitals and eagles should be much bigger in effect + more damage eg bigger explosions more AP, but with a longer cool down were they are intended for mob clearing and are much more effective at mob clearing, so its more a preference to your method or were certain niche situations some are better then others or vs certain factions... eg i think eagles should be better vs bugs due to lack of AA, orbitals vs bots as they have AA and illuminate its in the middle,. precision orbitals like the railgun i think should fire 2 shots and have 2 uses before CD, the orbital laser should last twice as long, have a larger AOE damage area, leave flames on the ground that burn a while = effective but could also wipe your team easily if used in emergency. sentries should have 10 times the current ammo pool, have better aim (most currently shoot air or walls) have a 15min lifespan before despawn so which every comes first ammo depletion or 15min, 5min CD timer. flamethrower needs 2-3 times the range and a fire option that makes it as is currently but leaves behind a much longer lasting fire trail, stalwart should be a primary, medium and heavy mg's need option to tripod when prone or when next to a window or waist height wall etc(this crap has been done even game mods 20+ years old, it aint hard!) so its better then going prone.
etc etc etc... game needs a total overhaul and the spreadsheet balancing needs to go... currently you cant trust them when they buff anything, as they just ofset it with enemy spawns and enemy stat tweaks that turn most buffs into nerfs other then within niche options, eg recoilless, sticky nade etc.
Damn im gonna have to use the purifier. I remember people were saying that gun was ass.
It got colossally buffed in a previous patch. On release it was almost objectively worse than the scorcher, but now its a top tier for bots and illuminates, and even performs halfway decent against bugs.
0:02
They are WHAT?
Among us 0:02
squid is sus
@ precisely
PSA About the Blitzer: Its a trash tier weapon if you aim DIRECTLY AT THE ENEMY - stop doing this. Instead, aim above the target and let the electricity arc down into the enemies for delicious killing power and stunning goodness. This also applies but less severely for the arc thrower. Electricity likes following the path of least resistance and the ground should never be the closest thing - make it the enemies skull instead.
I’ve been using the new SMG but it’s definitely sub optimal. I typically like to use the Adjudicator but the recoil often keeps me from loving it.
We really need more medium pen primaries. Ffs!
You should try some Light pen weapons. They're actually pretty good. Just don't aim for the overseers heads.
Breaker spray and pray is not that bad if we only use it for crowd control and breaking ship shileds. Also very satisfying to use. Would be better with increased ergonomics.
I do breaker cen and it pairs well with grenade pistol and recoilless. GP for overseers, medium. Problem is if you miss the flying dudes. They’re pretty challenging to hit with grenade pistol.
I've tried purifier and xbow and honestly i would rank xbow above purifier, no charge means the gun is snappier, consistent two shot for overseers and its ability to destroy spawners sometimes lets you destroy an entire camp without even getting close. I guess it just feels more satisfying for me to use
Also because of the insane blast radius sometimes you can kill 3-4 overseers grouped together in two shots which is awesome
The purifier is way easier to use and land shots for Illuminate, but the crossbow has better utility, so obviously, this guy said purifier is better...
Cookout will forever be S tier against anything soft
I appreciate the lack of giggling, the brevity, and the common sense in these takes.
yeah, with the eruptor, you need to hit overseers right in the chest for a somewhat consistent one-shot, idk how this works, maybe more shrapnel damage
Well here you go again speaking true facts, i wish more people would see the light of this.
The only one I'd semi disagree with is Blitzer dive backwards or Jumppack back and it hits a bit more consistantly but it's really only good if you can't aim with normal guns but it's WAAAY better than Arc Thrower but it's good to know the Purifier is that great.
MERRY CHRISTMAS to you too :)
Pretty bad take that a weapon is trash unless it can do everything tbh, the whole game is tradeoffs around taking stratagems to thin a crowd and weapons to deal with heavies or the reverse. Saying a weapon thats great at crowd clear is bad because its not as good against armour is missing the whole point of the way the game is designed.
ur saying the sickle, scorcher, torcher and the Jar 5 can do everything ? because clearly they can't, they're just good guns with good trade off, most of the guns in this game just don't have anything going for them
except I didn't say that nor did the list resemble that.
Eruptor explosion is too weak for the small ammo and slow reload speed.
sta-52 has a GL attachment just for vanity :{
Why does he destroy the bottom horn of the Harvester first before blowing out the leg?
So he can focus on the leg joint. Horn is an easier target. If you blow off the horn it disables it's ability to shield.
@bilbobagend8155 ah thanks, I figured it had a function. Anyway to stop it from firing electricity?
No tesla is permanent @@gunide
The amount of weapons we have and the amount that are the same or sick is insane. I wish they would focus on all the little things that need love in the game
Breaker was nice when I was running an arc thrower build. Arc takes care of everything but struggles when they get too close, and the breaker’s strong point is shredding anything up close so it worked out well. Takes out the shields really fast too. It’ll take more rounds than some others to kill an overseer but the fire rate makes up for it.
Once most of the weapons actually feel good to use I’ll come back, until then I’m not even interested in the new illuminate update
Couldn't have said it better about technical "viability". I absolutely despise how glazedivers, well, glazed constitution rifle by calling it "challenge" weapon. Shit can't even onetap in body zombie considering there is like 30 of them and you have magazine size of 5, what the fuck. Unless what they call "challenge" is to play without a primary weapon and having to overcompensate it with rest of loadout. Ridiculous.
Glazediving is a lot more fun the hellwhining though.