I think it would be cool to see a "vintage" Vintage Cube draft. Like take a list from 2018 or 2020 or whatever and get to play with some of the cards that have fallen out of the cube. It's changed so much and I still like it a lot but it could be fun to revisit especially seeing it with high level players.
This particular drafting portion of the cube reminds me of my VERY first MTGO vintage cube experience. Long story short, I was somehow passed all three Twin combo pieces, Time Walk, Time Twister, Breach, fetch lands, Mana Leak, etc. First game I’d cast all my combo pieces, I start turning Kikki sideways, and I start to go infinite except… about 7 tokens in, I’d realized I’d accidentally passed my own combat step. I said gg’s and went for a walk.
@@RainbowRandolfno the draft was for sure superb! but like you said, sometimes your opps also happen to be drafting broken shenanigans. My story was only relating to just the sheer power of cards that I ended up using like a toddler.
I might not be the typical viewer, but I haven't minded the losses at all. I imagine they're more tilting for LSV, but for me, these games have been complex and interactive. Win or lose, if the games are interesting to watch, I'm enjoying my experience as a viewer. And I am enjoying them. Maybe the only games I didn't enjoy was the Lurrus one. Not because I agree with Lurrus being a bad choice, but I remembered Martel getting destroyed by a Lurrus in a draft he was in and I expected him to hate Lurrus cards. I think that's the actual risk with Lurrus, it's vulnerable to hate. Still, those games were more fun to watch than losses to Initiative. Win or lose, I appreciate the uploads. Best of luck in your next draft. :)
Low key this was a super fun draft to watch with lots of interesting decisions and games. Thank you very much for the quality content and sorry for the bad beats!
I've definitely been feeling the bad beats recently, too, and they go way beyond my expected number of deck building and play errors. "Every line gets punished in some way" is a great way of summing it up.
If we've learned anything from these drafts recently, it's that it's not 2020 anymore. LSV is one of the best players out there (and clearly one of the best at cube), and it feels like every draft his fun, high-upside decks are getting pounded by pretty basic assertive decks that turn their cards sideways.
Yeah, and the cube lists they play really under-represent mana denial and aggro. No sulfuric vortex, no shrine of burning rage, no eidolon, no avalanche riders, no sinkhole, no rishadan port. It lets you get away with a bunch of two and three card monte nonsense and 4/5-color BS durdle piles. And thats even w/out initiative.
1:27:17 Couldn't you have gone Kitten, regrowth targeting trinket mage flickering vault, play trinket mage, get LED, play LED flickering mana vault, crack it, play echo flickering something again and have a fresh 7 with a bunch of mana 🤔
It would have been a better line, but I believe that still leaves him with only 1 colored mana and only drawing live to either confluence/upheaval plus a colorless way to flicker sapphire for the second blue OR otawara. So a funky 3 in 32
1:23:32 Is there any merit to putting yourself on the draw here if you lose? It lets you side for the draw, and makes your opponent side for the draw, then blindsides them, when they’ve assumed you’d take the play. I know, it’s still better to be on the play, but if your opponent knows that, and plays too hard into that (and you play around it), I think the shock value might be real enough to make them possibly mistakenly keep a heavier hand that’s better on the draw, and just that decision to take the draw (especially in a deck with upheaval or sweepers, and against a deck that’s not Minsc and lightning fast type) could win on the spot.
25:40 Am I missing something? Shouldn’t they have attacked with Boo first? Boo was a 4/4, and LSV only had a 1/1 and a 2/4. Either way it was guaranteed to kill the Shark and draw four cards. They just missed four free damage.
Not sure what was in their hand but it’s reasonable to draw first, they end up killing both blockers and playing Gut to make a token so their line looks good to me
I wonder why so many draw seven strategies that outright win the game have gone down in lsv’s opinion but the one that lets you durdle in an extremely round about way is still so powerful in his estimation. That juxtaposition sort of encapsulates some of the recursive thinking I’ve seen about cube drafting recently. Also, high noon for the cube. Would be a fun experiment.
Solitude Lurrus DT Mox Mox is an absurd P2P2 😂 Edit: Bad beats. If you wouldn't mind, the next time you plan to get nut-drawed by your opponents can you at least pick the Gak and force some dredge shenanigans? 🙏
wild draft - so much power! If you had the black fixing - would you have continued the passing of 2 power pieces and taken demonic? Also per your comment on the surveil into reanimator. My first feeder match was against IAmActuallyLvl1 where he surveiled on t2 into atraxa and then reanimated :P some people have the luck!
I'd wager yes. He had a 2 card Flash combo. So he could draw either side and be able to get the other. So he could take a card that is a 9/10 or 10/10 in his deck and pass 2 cards that are 10/10, versus taking a 10/10 and not know if the DT is making it to a teammate that needs it or not.
Maybe you had just enough card draw and selection to justify flash and two green creatures taking up 3 slots without any alternative sneak effects or tutors for redundancy? Just feels like those cards are so often dead when you throw them into any random blue deck with minimal redundancy
Yeah, I don't think relying on either a late Upheaval or an early flash with only two payoffs was the way to go. Especially true in this sort of team draft where once his win cons have been seen the rest know to hold interaction around it.
If it can be correct for your opponent to pass you 2 pieces of opened power pick 1, can it be correct for you to pass 2 pieces of power pick 2? So that your teammate gets 4th pick piece of power? How far can the logic go, can we wheel double power? xd
The reason passing it could make sense is you could take a card that’s 20/10 for your deck pick 1 and the still be passing power to your team. In a team draft it’s bad to open 2 pieces because it’s usually means your opponents end up with a power they otherwise wouldn’t have had if you just open 1
I think if you're completely discounting the fun of getting to play with power yourself, and looking at exclusively a team perspective, the comparison you need to weigh is the same. You need to try and weigh if you think the next best card in the pack is going to be better for you than it is for your teammate, to maximize the total strength of your team. There's also a consideration for if the piece of power is especially impactful for your deck over the average. But I think logic would dictate that this choice is the same until you get to the point in the pack where the power level of the remaining cards is immaterial
Guess you guys do winners winners etc and you and strider have 5 pieces of power and are playing in the last place bracket? Or do you guys just do whoever finishes first plays next . Either way as usual you never know in cube plenty of good decks go 0-3 and 1-2 lol .
12:29 ancestral recall art = LSV
LOL, yeah you're right!
I came here to say this lollll
I think it would be cool to see a "vintage" Vintage Cube draft. Like take a list from 2018 or 2020 or whatever and get to play with some of the cards that have fallen out of the cube. It's changed so much and I still like it a lot but it could be fun to revisit especially seeing it with high level players.
Should it be called Boomer Vintage Cube or is that too far? 😂😅
A pre-Modern Horizons cube.
I'm a child but "I've gone down a little bit on the monkey" got me
This particular drafting portion of the cube reminds me of my VERY first MTGO vintage cube experience. Long story short, I was somehow passed all three Twin combo pieces, Time Walk, Time Twister, Breach, fetch lands, Mana Leak, etc. First game I’d cast all my combo pieces, I start turning Kikki sideways, and I start to go infinite except… about 7 tokens in, I’d realized I’d accidentally passed my own combat step. I said gg’s and went for a walk.
He didn't really misstep the draft portion, tho. The deck was pretty great, but his opponents ran the nuts.
@@RainbowRandolfno the draft was for sure superb! but like you said, sometimes your opps also happen to be drafting broken shenanigans. My story was only relating to just the sheer power of cards that I ended up using like a toddler.
I might not be the typical viewer, but I haven't minded the losses at all. I imagine they're more tilting for LSV, but for me, these games have been complex and interactive. Win or lose, if the games are interesting to watch, I'm enjoying my experience as a viewer. And I am enjoying them.
Maybe the only games I didn't enjoy was the Lurrus one. Not because I agree with Lurrus being a bad choice, but I remembered Martel getting destroyed by a Lurrus in a draft he was in and I expected him to hate Lurrus cards. I think that's the actual risk with Lurrus, it's vulnerable to hate. Still, those games were more fun to watch than losses to Initiative.
Win or lose, I appreciate the uploads. Best of luck in your next draft. :)
Tilted LSV is not real, he can’t hurt u!
Tilted LSV:
Headliner scarlet is just such a frickin house man. I feel like I’ve seen that card come off the top of the library for lethal so many times.
A card that punishes big board stalls, which are usually pretty safe in this format.
@@dementievatz for sure, not saying I don’t think the card should be in. It’s sweet
@@subtleknife1 Haha yeah, I realize my comment was completely noncommittal -- I like Scarlett also.
Low key this was a super fun draft to watch with lots of interesting decisions and games. Thank you very much for the quality content and sorry for the bad beats!
You keep playing, we'll keep watching, the wins will come. ❤
Waiting on mystic confluence at the 33-minute mark is one of those moments that reminds me how much better LSV is than I am at magic LOL
I was sitting here second-guessing that exact play and very quickly felt like a fool for doing so hahaha
I've definitely been feeling the bad beats recently, too, and they go way beyond my expected number of deck building and play errors. "Every line gets punished in some way" is a great way of summing it up.
Kind of comforting to see losing even by the best of them. We have all had streaks like this.
He did the ancestral recall pose when he opened it
GAT DAMN that mono white list your teammate had looked good.
If we've learned anything from these drafts recently, it's that it's not 2020 anymore. LSV is one of the best players out there (and clearly one of the best at cube), and it feels like every draft his fun, high-upside decks are getting pounded by pretty basic assertive decks that turn their cards sideways.
WotC are determined to keep printing undercosted, overpowered creatures until all cards before MH1 become worthless.
Yeah, and the cube lists they play really under-represent mana denial and aggro. No sulfuric vortex, no shrine of burning rage, no eidolon, no avalanche riders, no sinkhole, no rishadan port. It lets you get away with a bunch of two and three card monte nonsense and 4/5-color BS durdle piles. And thats even w/out initiative.
#FeelsMagicMan
Getting your face melted by hull breacher = A-OK
White plume adventurer = that’s over the line, mate
Also this server is easily the top 10% most skilled cube drafters. Going to drastically alter the experience compared to 2020
My god, the beats.
I hope we make Triple Power Tuesday a recurring event.
Our secret mission should have always been making double green to hardcast Vaultborn Tyrant.
1:27:17 Couldn't you have gone Kitten, regrowth targeting trinket mage flickering vault, play trinket mage, get LED, play LED flickering mana vault, crack it, play echo flickering something again and have a fresh 7 with a bunch of mana 🤔
Yeah, definitely could have. Brutal to miss that line.
It would have been a better line, but I believe that still leaves him with only 1 colored mana and only drawing live to either confluence/upheaval plus a colorless way to flicker sapphire for the second blue OR otawara. So a funky 3 in 32
@mcderpity If you flicker the vault when you cast echo, it leaves you with 4 colourless and 2 blue left from LED after echo.
1:23:32 Is there any merit to putting yourself on the draw here if you lose? It lets you side for the draw, and makes your opponent side for the draw, then blindsides them, when they’ve assumed you’d take the play. I know, it’s still better to be on the play, but if your opponent knows that, and plays too hard into that (and you play around it), I think the shock value might be real enough to make them possibly mistakenly keep a heavier hand that’s better on the draw, and just that decision to take the draw (especially in a deck with upheaval or sweepers, and against a deck that’s not Minsc and lightning fast type) could win on the spot.
She's the headliner for a reason 😂
Just getting the bad luck out of the way so that you can crush into the Vintage Cube Live
25:40 Am I missing something? Shouldn’t they have attacked with Boo first? Boo was a 4/4, and LSV only had a 1/1 and a 2/4. Either way it was guaranteed to kill the Shark and draw four cards. They just missed four free damage.
Not sure what was in their hand but it’s reasonable to draw first, they end up killing both blockers and playing Gut to make a token so their line looks good to me
The ending to match one was a classic
I wonder why so many draw seven strategies that outright win the game have gone down in lsv’s opinion but the one that lets you durdle in an extremely round about way is still so powerful in his estimation.
That juxtaposition sort of encapsulates some of the recursive thinking I’ve seen about cube drafting recently.
Also, high noon for the cube. Would be a fun experiment.
Yeah it is crazy to me the amount of games that LED does actual nothing but he keeps prioritizing it.
I'd take recall over sol ring, cause you have broken mana and extra cards is good with that, but both are obviously very strong
Solitude Lurrus DT Mox Mox is an absurd P2P2 😂
Edit: Bad beats. If you wouldn't mind, the next time you plan to get nut-drawed by your opponents can you at least pick the Gak and force some dredge shenanigans? 🙏
That thumbnail though ❤
44:14 You could have also activated the 2/2 Incubator to attack Nissa as well in that spot.
Thank you for reminding me that in the end no amount of skill can win over horrible lukc =) =D
Is there any way to fix the overpower blue color? What about change time walk,ancestral and twister for timewarp,braingeyser and archmage's charm?
We’re in for a treat here! Can’t wait to see how busted this gets
Trazyn and a couple of untap artifacts would be so sweet in this cube.
Petition to put Stifle in your cube, LSV.
It’s too narrow, half the time it won’t even trade for a full card.
He tried it for a while a few months ago and it wasn't good. Even with cards like Phyrexian Dreadnought put in with it.
Please! 🙏 also dreadnaught
@@thedoctorbob7 oh dang- I didn’t know that. Thx
Petition to leave Stifle out of your cube, LSV.
wild draft - so much power! If you had the black fixing - would you have continued the passing of 2 power pieces and taken demonic?
Also per your comment on the surveil into reanimator. My first feeder match was against IAmActuallyLvl1 where he surveiled on t2 into atraxa and then reanimated :P some people have the luck!
I'd wager yes. He had a 2 card Flash combo. So he could draw either side and be able to get the other. So he could take a card that is a 9/10 or 10/10 in his deck and pass 2 cards that are 10/10, versus taking a 10/10 and not know if the DT is making it to a teammate that needs it or not.
ty for this offering, King Luis
Are we getting a set review for Bloomborrow?
23:16 why not brainstorm try to find a flash or manaleak?
Maybe you had just enough card draw and selection to justify flash and two green creatures taking up 3 slots without any alternative sneak effects or tutors for redundancy? Just feels like those cards are so often dead when you throw them into any random blue deck with minimal redundancy
Yeah, I don't think relying on either a late Upheaval or an early flash with only two payoffs was the way to go.
Especially true in this sort of team draft where once his win cons have been seen the rest know to hold interaction around it.
I do not feel all this midrange blue stuff. With a deck that can accelerate this fast you should be playing proactive instead.
Spoiler:
It was in July 2024 that LSV finally really didn't get away with it :P
Why is rite of flame in the cube?
Someone got an 8th pick flooded strand that pack must have been crazy
ugh, that headliner scarlet was brutal. I think you actually had the game sealed up otherwise.
In hindsight we should have gotten luckier and drafted more power.
Round 1 was great
If it can be correct for your opponent to pass you 2 pieces of opened power pick 1, can it be correct for you to pass 2 pieces of power pick 2? So that your teammate gets 4th pick piece of power?
How far can the logic go, can we wheel double power? xd
The reason passing it could make sense is you could take a card that’s 20/10 for your deck pick 1 and the still be passing power to your team. In a team draft it’s bad to open 2 pieces because it’s usually means your opponents end up with a power they otherwise wouldn’t have had if you just open 1
I think if you're completely discounting the fun of getting to play with power yourself, and looking at exclusively a team perspective, the comparison you need to weigh is the same. You need to try and weigh if you think the next best card in the pack is going to be better for you than it is for your teammate, to maximize the total strength of your team. There's also a consideration for if the piece of power is especially impactful for your deck over the average. But I think logic would dictate that this choice is the same until you get to the point in the pack where the power level of the remaining cards is immaterial
Would love to see Hogak and LED.
Baleful Six would be cool!
Artifact mana ramp deck that ramps into nothing is certainly a choice.
Haywire Mite is pretty great, surprised Ick didn’t activate it.
Makes sense tho, he Haywire Mite, he Haywire Mite not🤷
Man this streak is brutal 😢
This might be the most luck I have ever seen one person have.
I can't believe deck this had a worse record than 'no wincon storm'
Guess you guys do winners winners etc and you and strider have 5 pieces of power and are playing in the last place bracket? Or do you guys just do whoever finishes first plays next . Either way as usual you never know in cube plenty of good decks go 0-3 and 1-2 lol .
Maybe there's some such thing as TOO busted
Did he go hulbreacher and then pack 2 pick 1 take like a time twister over mox?
Wow that’s the worst Yavimaya I’ve ever seen
"I could make double green... I could upheval it" always finds the line
That One ring art is disgusting. I had to rewind and pause the video just to figure out what the heck it was
Play more bloomburrow!
My man can't buy a win... Even w 3 PC of power
Absolutely cursed draft.
Sol Ring, Mox Sapphire, Mana Crypt, Mana Vault.... sad
Hey question. Do you ever do set reviews anymore?
They already did the bloomburrow limited set review on limited resources
'Hopefully no Wasteland' he knows his teammate has it
Luis
That was rough. Another day this deck might have gone 3-0.
First?! Love these LSV!!!
Those white border basics tho…
Thompson George Rodriguez George Martinez Karen
Lurrus haters are feasting tonight.
.
Oof what a string of bad luck. Nice draft though.
first !