Narcissist Can't Feel Lovable, Good, Worthy, Self-rejects
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- Опубліковано 5 вер 2024
- Negative identity (in contradistinction to others): rejecting - including self-rejection - as MO.
Self-rejection owing to autoplastic defenses and self-loathing.
External locus of control: life out of control
Bad object introjection leads to: estrangement, catastrophizing, OCD rituals, addiction.
Focus on goal rather than process (life) is compensatory and constitutes self-rejection (I am not a bad object).
Some narcissists drop everything, decathect, especially in anomic, narcissistic societies where confusion reigns.
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6 months after discard and No Contact, I still feel utterly defrauded. As if I welcomed the loveliest of strangers into my home and said: take everything you want and, when you're finished, feel free to burn the place down. And that's what she did to me.
@@melindafinnigan172 thank you. It was one of the most difficult experiences of my life. Loving someone unconditionally and being abused in return. Good luck x
Well said
I lived in a lonely fantasy land. I felt safer there. That was how I spent my childhood and early teen years. I remember being chased by my Dad, because he blamed me for braking the door on the shed. I was putting skis away and the door broke. It was an old shed. I told him and he came at me in a rage. I ran out of the house with no coat. I walked over a mile in the dark to my friends house. I spent the night, because I was afraid to go home. I never told her what happened. I was 16. I changed that day. I vowed never feel pain again, even when he hit me.
This explanation sounds so easy to hear but difficult to digest. The narcissist I know had these parents that Prof. V speaks of. After listening to these videos, I see him in a different light, as a patient, and not a fully functioning person. I want to feel sad for him, but I can't because he is like the patient who is refusing medication/help. They just want people to look after them and make them feel good about themselves and feel bad for them, but do not want to get better because they will lose this attention and care.
@@MsCia007 yep! 100000000%
Stop giving attention for negative behaviour and expect improvement in their behaviour ..say otherwise u would apply consequences. U may just change them a bit if u stop enabling / excusing bad behaviour
I actually told a self-proclaimed narcissist that I felt like he was my patient.
Omg i could not have put this better myself wow i now view thr narcissist in my life completely differently. Amazing really
I think being indifferent to them is the absolute best way to deal with them. Do not go out of your way for them, do not do any of the things they are accustomed to getting or behave in a way they are accustomed to seeing. Just look after yourself and live your life. Do not make them your source of happiness. DETACH until you are able to get free of them.
Professor, you saved my life, thank you
'Compensation' nailed it Sam!
We deal with two charcuters, one who wants rejection, other who wants Adoration as a God.
Prof Vaknin, I can't thank you enough for your compassionate perspective. Even though I'm a victim of narcissistic abuse myself, the people who have hurt me are still dear to me in a way and it's hurtful seeing so many people, even psych professionals and "experts", demonize people who suffer with this disorder. Of course narcissists are capable of causing great damage, I know it full well. But my heart breaks for them all the same. The two narcissists in my life have both been people who lead incredibly tragic and unhappy lives and no matter how much they understood this fact and wished for change, they were unable to see the faults of their ways. They almost remind me of wild animals - trapped, raised in captivity in a cage of their own creation...
Even though I found it hard to heal even after all these years, these videos make me feel like maybe it's possible after all. It's much easier to demonize the people who hurt you, but it's compassion and understanding of the tragedy of it all that puts your heart at ease in the end, ironically. I hope the people I talked about also find their own peace of mind too. They're more than their disorder.
The problem with being compassionate with them is that they KNOW they have a problem. They might not even know what the problem is, but nevertheless, they know they are doing something that is significantly contributing to their failed relationships. They have behavioural therapy available to them, also medications because many of them suffer from depression and mood swings as a result of their NPD. They don't want to DO THE WORK, so that is why they do not deserve compassion. They are like a patient in a hospital who wants the whole staff to fawn over them and only them, tell them how great they are, and how they are a victim but refuse to take medication or do anything to get better, or at least become FUNCTIONAL. They want to continue being a patient to get all this attention.
Second problem is that the person who has been ABUSED needs ALL the compassion because they DO want to get over this and they are willing to do the work. They will change in real because they do not usually have a 'personality disorder'.
@@anumer897 This is a gross oversimplification of just about everything.
@@n08itches that's correct, you understand! Sometimes there is no need to complicate matters. We usually do that to our own demise. I used to think and feel the way you do and sometimes I still do but I have to force myself to snap back to reality. That kind of compassion towards a narcissist is totally misdirected. As Prof V. states in many of his videos, "there is NOBODY there" for whom we are being 'compassionate'. "It's like a hologram", in Prof. V's words. Try a few more rounds of 'devalue/discard/abuse' cycle.
We end up even hurting our own loved ones to whom we cannot be fully present with and engage with if we are in a broken state from the narcissist. He sucks the life and joy out of our loved ones vicariously through us.
@@n08itchesI do acknowledge there is greater complexity to narcissism and each narcissist is still an individual who deserves compassion. I, however, think SashaQ13's explanation is extremely accurate, at least in my experience.
In my case, I left the narcissist. Now, years later, he continues to target my daughter, repeatedly, purposely destroying her life. He gives long empty apologies, but as Sasha said, when you give him one concrete example of an action to take, he refuses.
He will let a young girl, still a child, cry and hate herself, instead of completing the simplest act to keep his word, show his love and protect her life or at the very least not destroy it. The destruction is real, each time it gets harder for her. She is old enough to realize her own dad is destroying her life, complete confusion and pain for my daughter. It is sick to watch.
The narcissist, however, has a demanding, successful career. I do not see him leaving his cases incomplete and writing long meaningless messages to his boss about why he just cannot do his work, but should still be paid.
The narcissist purchases and remodels real estate. I do not see him unable to keep appointments and agreements, then write long messages about how sorry he is but can they still do the work with only half the payment.
I could go on........He knows enough to get help and stop hurting those he claims to love. Part of compassion is holding people accountable for their actions.
If they are so incapable of treating loved ones with basic respect, they should not enter intimate relationships. I will not even comment on the chronic lying.........
@@n08itchesagree. Narcissism is a state. Empathy is also a state, the two fit together nicely. Neither one is love, or the truth of our being. Eventually, I am awakening out of all states. The privilege of loving a being in the narcissist state (all of us really) is that it undoes all self-rejection that still remains in us. If we have the eyes to see, that is. Love always says "thank you," whether up close or from a distance...... There is no "deserving" or "not deserving" of compassion. It is the core of every being trapped in every state, before the darkness.
Professor Vaknin I have never heard narcissism explained so clearly. The explanation helps me understand the process of becoming a narcissist. I was spellbound and highly focused on everything. Brilliant !!! Great video ❤
Me too. It's what we have in common on both sides. It's all a core wound of unworthiness.
Sam, while I began learning from you only a few days ago, in this presentation, I appreciate that you are verbalizing the nature and course of the creation of the false self in a vocabulary that is not as much academia, intellectualized. For my understanding, you have given me a more valid comprehension of this very sad divorcing of our true self in our severe, innate, survival need to connect as the child to the sickened adult(s). I very much appreciate your time, attention, sharing with us, and bearing yourself to us. If you can ever get to a point of true self-actualization of love of the real you, I will rejoice and sing to the heavens. God bless us all.
And that is an exellent description of why people should stop witch hunting people with narsisistic problems, they are suffering and deeply troubled souls, even thoe they hurt you, you leave them alone and stear away from them, you can't help them, and it's simply immoral to retaliate. Learn to spot them and politely just say no thank you and move on. You are an functioning adult, they where robbed of the opportunity to become one. Just leave them alone.
Oh i have found home! I love the understanding behind all this! Thank you ☺️
This hit hard.. the depth at conceptualizing 👍👍👍
omg….. this is why they don’t know how to describe themselves. They can’t even answer simple answers about themselves or anything about like and quickly react as if they were offended. omg it’s because they are so empty, they never knew themselves… too busy building false identity and ruining other ppls lives dang…
Thank you. ❤️. Your videos have a healing influence on me.
They do make me feel sorry for my wife,
and, sorry for myself that I am not able to help her find balance with herself.
Watching your videos make me nod permanently. You even use the words I use in thinking about such condition. 😔
Get out while you still have enough life force within you. It won’t get better.
Or, stay and accept that you are trading your remaining days on this planet, for misery.
If you believe you deserve to be happy, understand you will never find it with someone who pathologically exhibits these personality traits.
Good luck.
@@SootSootSooty That's good advice. 👍. Since my wife dumped me five months ago I live alone now.
She is not only in very short time estranged with me but also with our daughter.
My daughter waits for me to have a legal solution for her living close to her mum.
End of this week my attorney may bring a workable solution.
This is my 2nd narcissistic relationship; both rather shocking.
Thank you for your input. 😎
@@enricio good luck with it all. I hope you get a workable solution. It’s not easy. X
Incredible thank you. This so accurately describes the hell of narcissism & how it develops as a result of being born into a dysfunctional family. Explains Why they developed this way in order to survive. Makes total sense. I have witnessed this. Thank you for these insights. Do you know if such a person can ever be successfully treated to find a way back to a more humane rational true centred self?
after they undergo mortification, maybe?
is there a successful way (to treat such people, to work towards their own recovery? what works? Have you known or seen anyone recover if it is indeed possible to heal at that deepest level & transform the hell of narcissism?
What form of psychotherapy or treatment modes has had positive results, if any? Are there successful new treatments?
@@Johannastairwellstudio thanks yes, need more info I recall he mentioned this. No idea if anyone has been successfully treated?
He used to make me think of McCavity by T. S.Elliot, with its recurring refrain. "McCavity's Not There."
This is very liberating . Great insight Sam!
İts very very precious what you are telling. İ can realte to everything you say but at the same time im getting angry while watching because i feel so helpless. İf these people are so extremely tangled with their negative emotions and at the same time having such a horrible effect on everybody in their lifes, why nobody is trying to detect and take them out from outside life? The longer they are around, they are infecting their children as well and preparing a more narcisictic generation, it has no stop. İ think you are the only Professor on the planet who is capable of setting this up.
I still learn so much from you. 🙏
I came here to see if Sam had analyzed the slap heard round the world yet.
You are amazing!!
really can’t handle this. It’s been over two years since the discard and I still think of him every day, and can cry over him as soon as I think of him, it’s still hurts so much, can’t do this anymore, I haven’t spoken to him in 2 years but not getting any easier. I’m working on myself but I can’t get over him.
I know he’s still with the girl he discarded me for, and I don’t understand how, I know all about ‘don’t believe social media’ and ‘he’s treating her the same’, but I don’t believe he is, this is his longest relationship, he’s deleted his insta cos she got jealous over it, didn’t do that for me. I can’t deal with this anymore
Two years is too long forget about him there’s lots of men in the world all you have to do is learn about red flags and how to create boundaries for yourself and work on that read about it and find yourself what you like and you’ll be able to meet new people do things with people in real life get off the Internet go out bowling go to the movies go shopping take long walks outsideBecome a nature lover find some hobbies then you’ll find a good person find someone that has the same hobbies and interests as you and not somebody with hangups and nasty personal problems
@@katadam2186 I know, I feel like such a loser to feel like this still after two years. I briefly dated someone after him (only for about 2 months) in an attempt to get over him, and he turned out to be a narcissist too! He said he bet he could make me cry with this smirk on his face, very weird.
I think it’s a combination of firstly, I don’t like where I am in life, crappy call centre job on minimum wage, I like creative work, I lost my home during lockdown so am having to live back with my parents, I’m in my late thirties, I have no relationship and live in the middle of nowhere here. While he is still with the girl having nice moments together. I think I keep reaching back to the time with him as it was ‘normal times’ just before the lockdowns when everything went to sht.
Secondly is even some of it was a fake persona, he is/was everything I want in a guy looks wise, personality, career, aspirations etc. I don’t believe I will find someone I love that much who is ‘normal’ and healthy. I adored him so much I will constantly be comparing poor guys in the future to him and his actions.
Thank you so much for your reply. How is your healing going? x
@@laaaah4577 he was false. There are better guys out there, just get out there and do it. Start dating, not going into full on relationships, just have dates with guys. Practice your boundaries, set your expectations and set your standards then focus on paying attention and giving time to those who are meeting those standards. If your ex is with her longer then with you- he trained on you, practiced on you and knows to take his time this time so she stays around longer. Don't worry. You don't have anything to be envious off. Block him on all accounts and start being yourself and rebuild your confidence by getting out there to meet with other people. Practice joy and start doing things you are talking about you like doing, creative things etc. Join a community centre ? Painting group? Ceramic workshop? Whatever that is. Music class? Good luck! You got this.
It would be amazing if you could talk about Will Smiths Wife which seem to be a covert narc and pushed him over the edge :) I think you will find it very interesting!! :)
Is it normal that most of us feel identified with some of these descriptions? Is it that most of us are narcissists?🤔😆
If you grew up with a narcissist parent, then you would feel this way because they projected these feelings on to you. That's why the love bombing works so well when you get with a narcissist. They make you feel all these things. It's also why the devaluation and discard are so hurtful. They snatch it all away and make you feel unworthy again. That's why alot of people end up with c-ptsd that stems from unresolved childhood trauma after a narcissist relationship.
@@lisabell1399 +1
A good point. In one of his videos he actually says that all people develop narcissistic traits in childhood but in a healthy way in order to handle life. I do not remember at what point it actually goes wrong and becomes a personal disorder i believ it has to do with inside and outside confuison.
You are the best out here really! I have watched so many videos from different UA-cam Rs, The self styled experts really are just that.
Brilliant presentation, it’s helped to bring further understanding to my partner’s behaviour
Very interesting, may thanks, I identify with lots of these elements
Truly brilliant explanation ❤️
Thank you 🙏🏻
So spot on!
Hi Sam off topic but could you please do a review of the Bowen Family Systems Model?
Do you ever do any conferences or lectures in Australia? I would be so interested!!
I go where I am invited.
Thanks for the video, great explanation! Can you also recommend some ways to heal if there are any, please?
Year after year I've looked at Sam's videos and there's always an overwhelming majority of people in the comments who are self-proclaimed victims of this or that Narcissist. While not to downplay their suffering, doesn't it strike you guys as a bit odd that many of these people seem to take zero responsibilty for their own side of the relationship?
Now before anybody accuses me of "victim blaming" just consider the piece of common knowledge that it takes 2 to tango and surely it can't all be the Narc's fault? It's always about "my narc this and my narc that" and the amount of intese hatred towards them strikes me a bit as if it's some form of projection. The Narc is now public enemy #1 so its very convenient to hate them and turn them into a kind-of boogeyman that absolves the other party of all responsibilty. Again, I realize sometimes this is totally warranted, to hate the Narc, but I can't be the only that has noticed how it's a bit one-sided?
In this vein I would just like to point out that I really enjoy the videos by Sam in which he takes a more sympathetic view towards the condition. Given the almost blood thirsty victim-rhetoric toward the Narc in any online discussions it's a breath of fresh air. Not to mention a source of hope for those of us who are on the spectrum and are trying to help themselves improve.
I think you've noticed the codependent whom is often different side of the same coin as a Narc. The codependent seeks validation in a more palatable way however the motive is often the same. Validation from outside oneself. I think your observation is fair and rooted in emotional intelligence. I also noticed this, including how often some users will take on ownership from this weird self righteous place "MY narc"? Wait, what lol.
Sincerely,
Recovering codependent
@@ItsAllWavyBaby Haha I hate that phrase too, "my narc" It is typical of this sort of commenter. Somehow very condescending
my thoughts exactly, the amount of self pity and hypocrisy in some of these comments leaves a really bad taste in my mouth. it's baffling because these people usually fervently agree with what's being said in the videos while simultaneously missing the entire point - that narcissists are broken, miserable people and they don't hurt people out of some kind of esotheric "evil".
Iz Vašeg izlaganja je OČITO da niste imali posla sa ovim DEMONIMA!
(Da, demonima, dobro ste pročitali!)
Dakle, blago Vama pa ne znate.
Nadam se da Vaše mišljenje neće uvažiti žrtve ovih demona.
@@n08itches You so funny for having emphaty for a person that won't care if abuse you to him get what he wants but won't have emphaty for the person who didn't see the narcissistic coming... But it's okay have emphaty for narcissistic you will be their number 1.
I wonder whether culture plays a part in this, eg some cultures operate primarily based on collectivist principles so it can be tough for individuals to find a right way to detach and find the self.
I am in love with your brilliant mind, I learning from you everyday
❤ I saw it all.
So sad 😔
Rejection equals judgment. I understand. I also notice others who reject me. When others get together and reject one. As I’ve experienced. I don’t take it personally though. Interesting subject! You again, have explained something I’ve noticed with others. Does an individual who reject others not defend individuals he should? Say for instance, a friend or family member disrespect’s the wife, and he allows it. He allows others to mistreat his wife. That is something I need to have explained. Is it because he is part of the bullying? Just a thought Professor.
Yeiiii! Another one! Lmfao wooohooooo!!!
Wow this is the first one that points at myself. Thank you 🙏
Would individuation be possible and a way out for a borderline (although this is a self attributed diagnosis)?
Hello, Sir. What is the difference between a borderline and a dependent?
Ex owes me a couple hundred $ for an emergency loan I gave him. In November!
Then why do they keep coming back
Good morning Professor. I have a question about a diagnosis I read that had the diagnosis as Anti Social Personality disorder with histronic and narcissistic "traits." Is this a proper diagnosis? and if so why are the traits not indicated as co-morbid disorders? I am curious why these would not be co-morbid disorders and only "traits" based on your videos regarding how narcissists become narcissists. Why is narcissism a "symptom" of other cluster B personalities and a disorder of it's own?
I belive my fahrer is narcicist and i belive im also one.I never really thougs about it.Im scared thinking about it.
Any advice ?
Hi professor, can you help me out with this. I’m wondering if one could develop narcissism, if one had a bad stepmother as a child from age 2-6. Have a great day and thanks for all your content♥️🌱
Is a normal person capable of causing harm, or is all destructiveness pathological?
Hello Dr Vaknin
I'm obsessed with your teaching they are so insightful however I'm stock with in a 8 years relationship living together with a narcissist, I don't recognize myself I feel dead, he
Left exactly a month ago overseas on a business trip and didn't even said goodbye, I decided to leave him. 2 weeks after being gone he texted claiming I haven't even contacted him once I told him why should I when you didn't even said goodbye
He ignored me and went on talking about irrelevant stuff, changing the subject about decisions Ive made without including him I m tired I didn't want to continue faling into his game than he blocked me and 2 days later I noticed he unblocked me I have not contacted him once neither has he. He left me up in the air like I don't exist
What else can I do to keep him away from me. Please 🙏 help me with some advise
He rejects himself so he definitely is rejecting youu too, can't win best move it along .Your life worth more than money or any bad treatment 👌
@@alwaysjolly thank you
@@Smokillo thank u for your support🤗
@@essiesanchez6923
Your welcome . Do the best for you . You don't need more bad drama you'll be more sorry 😐. Blessings upon you.
Hi professor Vaknin, would you please be able to do vidro with borderlines on same topic? Thry seem to emulate other peoples' identity as a coping/survival mechanism. Does this mean they have posiyive identity?
Covert is pretending you are recovered which allows you to do the thing you love most: talk about yourself.
Except…..It seems like everything is narcissistic…right?
Self loathing = narcissistic
Self adoration = narcissistic
Depression = narcissistic
Low self esteem = narcissistic
Ambition = narcissistic
Self help = narcissistic
Existing = narcissistic
Or is the weekly soliloquy the product of circular thinking. Consider for example the beneficiary activist maintains everything is racism forever. Ok.
Further, most of your staunch viewers are likely damaged divorcees who enjoy your style of deprecation which serves their insulation from responsibility.
So, spend your whole life talking about yourself….adorable. Comedy.
Interesting perspective - much appreciated from this "damaged divorcé"! 😜
I don't fully agree with the conclusion, but can see the danger over over-generalising human behaviours to fit one's bias (I don't like X, so X must be a narcissist). That's a cope, and patently nonsense. Also agree there's a lot of high power intellect that can use sophistry to buttress such an approach with very persuasive argument.
Nevertheless, my view (for what it's worth) is that there is a real construct of NPD. Probably overdiagnosed now, but also probably of increasing prevalence over time amongst a milieu of wider societal trends to narcissistic style.
Focussing on the 'core' problem - a post-traumatic state characterised by construction of a stable false (fantasy) self - appears reasonably solid ground. The downstream manifestations (entitlement, grandiosity etc) perhaps more variable dependent on individual and environmental circumstances. I tend to agree with Sam that the DSM tick-box melange of criteria are nonsense in terms of construct validity, but I guess that's a wider problem in psychology as it deals with the hard (fundamentally philosophical) problem that we never truly know the content of another person's mind, while trying to avoid hardcore Skinneresque behaviourism as the reductionist response.
Great comment, certainly got me thinking!
Are you upset with a particular divorcee or do you hate them all