3 years ago I left both, my narc mother and husband. I cut off all friends in common with my husband because he had already tod them his story. I kept in touch with a brother and some family member but at arms lengh. I finally got over the guilt and hope that my mother was going to treat me better. To all young people out there, don't wait until you are 56 to go. Please dont. They are not going to change.
so your brother isnt an enabler or flying monkey for your mom? i used to see my siblings as neutral but whenever i opened up recently with them they would play devil's advocate and turn on me
I'm 56, also. Mother and step mother are both covert narcs, as are other familia, and you can't say much, if anything, to their "flying monkey" entourage without further consequences. I agree with the premise of going: "No Contact." (Similar to saying: "I will NOT comply," to tyrannical (i.e. narc and psycho controlled) governance, or in many a workplace, house of worship, etc.) If they are close family, even going to see them once or twice a year still keeps their "hooks in you..." because they'll call, stop by, ask to or for your help, etc. I've also noticed that many of them later end- up isolated and alone in their homes, then often self or state institutionalized (with other narcs) but they made the conscious choice to become narcs (increasingly of late for "entitlement' vs. "abuse and neglect," reasoning...) just as we chose NOT to become "part, of the collective problem!"
Scapegoat here, abused for 42 years by every single one of them and their circles. Yet i don't think isolation is forever, we are good people and with healing come wonders in our life. It shall pass, you will bloom, have faith in yourself.
They make it sound so over and lonely. I am the scapegoat and I have the best connections with my inner circle and work relationships. Most of us become very successful in a field of our choice and live the beautiful life we deserve. You are your surroundings make sure it’s a safe space for you! Much love!
"The cost of admission to a relationship with a narrsasist is self annihilation" Pete walker, from surviving to thriving. The losses are CATASTROPHIC and the grief overwhelming. There's a lot to be grieved for, so many deaths. The loss that underpins all others is the SOUL MURDER. The grieving process ( which I am deep in) is in part attempts at soul retrieval. But be careful who you let into your life when going through this process, I found myself reaching out to unsafe/ abusive people early on..
I get that, reaching out to unsafe people. I feel a bit wobbly in this area, I think I just got roped in by someone who makes me feel good,then bad, then good, on and on. I don’t think this is healthy?
Well stated. It was another layer of pain discovering 2/3 of my friends/associates were as depleting to my well being as my family of origin. Being in company of unhealthy people felt normal . Healing my narcissistic “ fleas” from my toxic family is pretty gutwrenching. Boundaries are the antidote. We must guard against over isolating, as there is no growth when we construct walls no one can climb. I survived this life with god given resilience. Perseverance…….. no drugs or alcohol so I can hear the “ signal” clearly.🌎
Thank you for sharing this. I can totally relate with all that you said so very well. This can be a very lonely and heart breaking, yet healing place to be in one's life. (in this similar space now too) Wishing you and all of us much peace, healing and a life of happiness and a deepening and renewed sense of self respect and love. 💜🦋💜
don't know why we attract more Narcisist, it might be rooted in our subconscious believe, having normal friends do feel odd for me, as all i know it's toxic friends...
After leaving the Narcisstic family, you come to realize that some of your bosses are Narcissists and your significant others and you finally leave these entrapment and you realize your government is Narcissitic and gaslighting and it never seems to end. The gift is I can all see it now. I thought when my mother died it would all be over and apparently it will never end, your just grow and heal. The Narcissitic system lives on in our corporations, government and our world.
@Dunno Doughnut Thank you for your kind words. During my commute I listened to a book on tape ,after coming to these realizations,. It was written by TIME magazine journalist called the Narcissist Next Door and broke it down even further . Once the cover is off the cover is off. I actually am now thankful for the Narcissist in my life to a degree for waking me up..of course I had the choice not to but when the pain is that bad. You know...
you're right the type of narcissist who thrives on wall street etc is glorified and if you stop and think about it what are they glorified for we have no indication they are even a decent person, shouldnt we be glorifying nurses and firefighters at least the nice ones? lol
My mother disowned me 4 years ago. It was actually a blessing. I grew up with a very covert narcissist stepdad. I always Been a doormat, people pleaser. Scared to say no to anyone. We got disowned or kicked out the house if we had feelings or opinions. My mom never protected us..we were always bad if we spoke up. She cut me out of the will. Hurts not having a mom that loves me..but learning to love myself has been the best gift ❤❤❤
I found that a massive hurdle, after repeated hoovering and pure malicious destruction always being the end result of any reconciliation when you can again tell yourself with ease and no tears that your mother doesn't love you never did never will and you are nothing but another tool to her
My narcissist sister has cut me off for saying what I felt only her and her close family are allowed feelings she’s done me a favour just dealing with all the suppressed emotions good for you well done to your strength ❤
Can confirm this. It's the proximity of this person or ppl in your life that is causing the chaos. Once you break the toxic bond, and become happy with yourself, you'll naturally move away from anything that causes you emotional harm. Which is healthy and normal.
Leaving the narcissistic family is a must. However, after a childhood of abuse scapegoat remains isolated and alone for life. Family never addresses the abuse or trauma afflicted on the scapegoat. He must leave to protect sanity and to remain isolated and lonely for life. Reviewing my childhood memory I came to a painful realization that I was never allowed to be a child. Details of abuse and neglect are too painful for me to face🖤🖤🖤
i am a scapegoat and it is so ingrained in me that i feel the urge to play scapegoat in every part of my life only reason i wanna do the hard work now is because i'm struggling with my own kids i don't have a problem with them but when you have kids that look like you it will remind you how much you are still a wounded kid
I know about that. The family scapegoat is lucky to even be alive. I mostly isolate myself from the world and have occasional conversations with my partner who finally stopped abusing me.
That voice-in-the-head we all have is not our voice - it's the feedback and attitudes from our parents from childhood to about age 7 to 9 - when our self-worth or lack thereof is set up by the parents - not the child. Through feedback and attitude and emotional bond (or lack thereof). And that voice echoes through the rest of our life. I hear you too - the same story for myself. A bad start in a narcissistic family system as scapegoat wrecks so much in life.
Yeah, there does come a "the dream is over" moment when you realize just how self-centered the parent is and that you'll never get what you wanted. It frees you up to move on and take care of yourself.
Doesn’t have to be. I drew the boundary with my narcissistic mother who lives a mile/walking distance away. It’s amazing how narcissistic people simply move on to other supply; they never loved or cared about anyone but themselves. I like actually that she’s close because if she ever decides that she needs anything from me, I can do my duty while maintaining my boundary with her.
I was raised in a very toxic emotionally abusive family. They're gone now as I'm 62 as I write this. I was an adoptee, and I was taught "to be grateful" that I was given to my parents. That I had a home. I'm not going to get into all the abuse I'd suffered but just let's say they took a lot of their frustrations out on my little body. If this happened in today's world they'd have been put in jail. It was a different world in the 60s where many children died and many of us were scarred. The thing that saved me was the idea that I was not RELATED to them, and I could be my own person in my adult years. I had 2narcisstic husband's, 1 emotional, the other physical. I needed closure so I sought out these videos to start understanding what I've been through. I need to tell you I'm still understanding and am growing out of the trauma. Adoptive kids deal with our own set of problems, and that needs to be addressed as well.
For years I entertained the idea that I had been "switched at birth", that someday a couple would knock on the door an collect me, as their own child. When I was old enough to examine my birth certificate I realized that they really were my biological parents and was devistated! At 13 I left - ran 3,000 miles by myself - it was hard but worth it. Trouble is, I didn't understand the abuse. I felt terrible being the scapegoat. For 50 years I have stayed in touch, hoping that they would accept me if I became a better person, was trained that all the bad family stuff was my fault. Now, at 63 I finally know the truth. It's them, not me. I have been NC for a month now, and it HURTS!! But, at least I'm not being abused by them. 😢
Me too. I did 5 years with one of the best therapists there is. She said I was good to go after 2 1/2 years but I knew I wasn't. I had a huge breakthrough connecting to my heart in a deep way 6 months later. Honor your own timeline. Happy for you.
If you are an adult family member, and you see a narcissist inflicting cruelty on a minor, it is your responsibility to protect the minor, not the narcissist. I can't believe I even have to say this, but apparently, protecting a minor seems to be a rare thing these days. Why is this happening in our present-day society? When did we stop protecting children?
I don't think we ever did protect them. We actually had to put child labor laws in place last century just so they wouldn't be exploited workkng in factories. In the past, child abuse was hushed up by society at large, even as recently as the 80's. Only recently have people even started to talk about it openly. People have always abused children. You can even find mummified ancient children who were killed as sacrifices by their communities. Which is actually not that different from what happens to scapegoats. We are only just starting to protect children.
This is a new thing. Children have more rights and protection now than they ever have. Hopefully it just continues until we stop the trauma that creates these narcs.
I'm greiving the love I gave to these evil people. I'm greiving the inability to ever truly love myself. I'm also enraged that I was forced to see these creatures as better than myself. I pray every day for deliverance from their evil and protection from allowing other devil's in my life. Thanks Jay the video helps.
I hope you will come to appreciate all the strength and grace you have had to develop in your life to cope with such trauma. You are lovable and worthy of respect, love, and kindness, and I hope you will come to truly love yourself--you deserve it.
I am also in my grieving phase I have accepted that my mom is incapable mother a covert NPD...It is painful that i could not see it for too long...Lost many time and people in the journey bcoz of her..41 years lost in managing her emotions and needs.
Yes, I agree with all the commenters and thank you for your courage to share. I left my Narc parent 3 years ago and they just passed last week. I can imagine what you've been through. Through my pain I cried out to Jesus and was given the gift of eternal life in heaven and the Holy Spirit. It was a free gift. But instead of just growing in my relationship with God through scripture. I can totally relate to all the love you said you gave to these evil people. I felt I had to also attend church. Churches in our country are prime environments for Narc's. They give sermons and do all the talking and give all the lessons with no obligation to hear any return communication. The level of control the leaders in even some of these small to medium sized churches is staggering. They are truly evil. It's through comments like yours and sharing about how you continued to love on them that helps me to feel I'm not alone. is what helps me to heal as well. Thank you for your courage and generosity in sharing your story. Isaiah 55:1-4
This reminds me of a psychologist I once happened to talk to who said ''I have to mourn everything I was entitled to but never got", referring to being a child growing up within a dysfunctional family system. It was 35 years ago but these words made an everlasting impact on me, often reflecting on it and something that became very helpful to me during the years. At the time being I didn't even know anything about narcissism or words like 'dysfunctional family'. I don't remember what we were talking about or why but I think it was meant for me to hear. I think it resonates very well with "The power of grief after leaving the narcissistic family"
Well said. It doesn’t matter if it happened yesterday or 35 years ago. Abuse stays with victims until they decide to do the inner work. It’s sad that these situations are so common and have become normalized. Thanks for sharing your story.
Scapegoat here - They make it sound so over and lonely. I am the scapegoat and I have the best connections with my inner circle and work relationships. Most of us become very successful in a field of our choice and live the beautiful life we deserve. You are your surroundings make sure it’s a safe space for you! Much love!
Doesn’t sound like you had much of a scapegoating experience. No one who has been badly scapegoated survived like that. The real evidence of scapegoating is how shattered a persons life has been. You don’t leave scapegoating and just make a safe space. It repeats in social and work environments. Unless you are the exception to the nature of scapegoating.
@@gjthomas9770 ..so you think having 'the best connections with inner circle and work relationships' and becoming 'very successful in their field', fits the pattern of symptoms experienced by scapegoating victims??... ok... My objective is to encourage the accurate use of terminology. Sorry if you think I'm being unkind - but it's extremely important for victims of abuse who read these comment sections, many live in extreme poverty and social isolation, and continue to be bullied without any allies, support or escape.
@@gjthomas9770 you probably think I'm being unkind, but that's not my intention. Maybe there's more to the story, I'm commenting on the example given - that's all I can comment on. I made the comment with the objective of supporting victims of chronic scapegoating who have very profound and deblitating experiences.
I was 18 when I went no Contact with my narcissistic family. Its been a emotional rollercoaster to deal with the past. I am almost 21 now, still no contact. Thank you for this video.
I 've often wished over the years that I had put thousands pf miles between myself and family when I left home . Starting out with 15 miles separation and trying to maintain a low contact just didn't work , Narcissists still need a scapegoat and seek you out and bad mouth you to all the relatives still - they had to be left behind to clear the air too. A clean break with a great distance would have been the only effective solution .
I thought so as well. 4 decades later, I realize the unrelenting back biting gossip lived on without me, rippling across any geographic distance I created, damaging the majority of my family of origin relationships. Don’t be hard on yourself- though it is personally hurtful, being targeted by a narcissist is not personal, it is structural. You are part of the structural system of narcissism whether you are involved with a narcissist or not. In my experience, it is easier for the narcissist to spread lies when I was not present because the reality of the life I lived would not be an obvious opposition to their lies.
As a chosen scapegoat in my family siblings of 3. the other two above me where golden children. Which now at 48 i dont blame them. i blame my dad who divided us all from a young age. Creating rivalrly and not giving us a chance to get to know eachother like normal brothers and sister should do and look out for one another. I could never please my father and i had the balls to tell him to his face after i had to go to counselling to work out why he was different to me and nice to my two other siblings. I limited my time around my Narc dad last few years called once a week and was doing great we had some sort of normalicy relationship but always was weird when he would make a nice comment to await the devalue one. Was great to finally work out how fucked up this dynamic was. I just kept strict boundaries then. Maybe his family dynamic was like this. Anyhoo Tried to make contact to try and come togther after my dad sadly passed last year Only to realise the NARC Golden child brother and sister will carry on the same evil twisted behaviour my Dad emeshed in them especially my brother. Learned a dear lesson...nearly crippled me ..dangerous twisted being Stay the hell away from them Live your life to as best as you can IF you were the scapegoat. not your fault It is your Fkd up parent I am done with the siblings now...a stranger would treat you better and you wouldnt tolerate half their crap if it was from a friend. I wish i had of been adopted into another loving family years ago...least i would of had normal half brothers and sisters
What helped me move out of grief was recognizing that even all my childhood needs were magically fulfilled now - it wouldn’t serve me anymore. The trauma has already occurred. It just clicked that all my life I was looking for the wrong medicine in the wrong place. It pointed into the direction that gave true healing. My own heart and a higher power.
OMG...I have been struggling for a couple of weeks...I keep noticing pictures of mothers reading to their child ...kissing them goodnight... hugging or warmly smiling at their child..and just REALLY absorbing the fact that she NEVER did those things...and not feeling depressed....but I finally realized it is not depression but lifelong SADNESS... I decided to check your post and it was EXACTLY what I needed ..THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH!
Hey Jay, What was the book you recommended to read to separate and individuated from narcissist family? I'm out wanting to pick it up but it's not in my search history. Thanks in advance.
when people are kind and gentle my first thought in general is whats up with them and then i quickly realize no they are fine and normal its me that finds kindness almost abnormal
I walked away after being told I had "false memory syndrome" about my father's abuse after 9 hours of therapy with 2 siblings.. I haven't seen anyone in my family in 19 years except maybe 6 unexpected street and work encounters with siblings, all of which were traumatizing and shaming to me. It took me the better part of 10 years to fully grieve the loss of a "tribe." I always knew my parents were off-the-charts fucked up, but it was the betrayal of my two siblings that hurt the most and does to this day. Really insightful content, Jay. Thank you.
I am the oldest of four and this is what I’m grieving now after almost a decade of no contact. My siblings are still young and the betrayal of them still cuts like a knife. The hope and wish of having them suddenly come back is detrimental to me. I often give them excuses because they were so young and abused too.
@@Anechka1394 I can so relate to the excuse making. I still dream frequently about my siblings and in my dreams they are able to finally hear me and see the truth.
Jay the worst is NOT over because the narcissist steals other relationships and that continues to hurt and is not just a grief from the past but follows us after we are either ejected from the narcisstic family or leave ourselves.
Thanks, Jay! 'My needs are not as important as the needs of others' was probably the most prevalent lie I internalized growing up. Lately, I've taken a slightly different route (not exactly on purpose!) to the 'safe people' one. The people in my life now are safER, but there is also a lot more distance. I have NO close relationships. I'm finding the 'I am inadequate' lie being debunked simply by the fact that I'm not expending time, energy, and attention on other people. I do believe that relationships are meant to enhance one's life, but it's also not a bad in-between state to be basically without relationships, when the people in the old relationships took more than they gave. I'm experiencing that I am able to provide for myself and have a relatively comfortable life, which I never thought I could do. I didn't realize at the time that I couldn't have a good life BECAUSE I was pouring my resources into other people, which in turn had made me feel dependent on the same people who were taking my resources in the first place! Much like the 'wanting to be healed by the same person who hurt you' concept, I think. I really appreciate your input, Jay. These videos have been a great help to me.
You described so well where I am at right now! I have to keep reminding myself I survived despite all of the people that were close to me, not because of them. I believe connection to others is important for humans, but we can't have true connection with others until we can connect with ourselves and not feel like we need others. Right now I don't want to go looking for people to connect with because I need that to feel whole. Gabor Mate describes well how we can lose our autonomy as children when it threatens our connection with our parents. Enmeshed family systems convince us that our lives have no meaning unless we are enmeshed in the Ives if others. Until I feel worthy on my own, any connection with someone else is ripe for enmeshment.
Thank you for sharing! I feel the same. Grieving process has been a roller coaster - every time it's a new depth of pain and grief, how much of my resources had been wasted on other people in one-sided relationships with users.
@@charissaschalk5175 I'm also a big fan of Gabor Mate, i have addictions, from his videos alone, i got good info' that it's all rooted from our inner wounds, which is childhood wounds.... i never read his books, but I'm admiring him
It’s a fact: nothing and no one is good enough for any narcissist. Things never ever get better with them. It only gets worse. Just stay away; as far away as possible. Don’t give any narcissist the chance to get through at all. Protect yourself.
There was definitely no good part of the relationship at any time for me. I have had to grieve what never was and never will be. I have also had to do it mostly alone because this is the kind of grief people don't want to hear about. So that adds another layer of anger, abandonment, and grief.
Yes, this has mostly been my experience, too, though I do have a couple of people who can listen to me occasionally. They are fellow survivors, so they understand. With everyone else, even some I suspect of being survivors, but who are probably still in denial, my experience has been that it's just not safe, even with a therapist.
Start a journal. You may not think journaling is for you like I thought but people don't want to hear about our grief every day. We need to talk about it every day sometimes. Here's the good part to journaling, When thoughts are overwhelming and you are sure you can't talk about it out loud, well, first pray to God and he listens but then jot your feelings down and your memories. This helps two ways. One, you can rid your mind of trying to remember it which is taxing and seems to interfere in that release we need so bad in order to let that out of ourselves. Two, you do not have to constantly review the details because you have them documented. If you ever need this information in detail you have it. Something about that is liberating and helps. People who traumatize do not admit to anything and if you have it all documented, you will never be able to be gaslighted again. You will have your own proof for yourself that you remember it correctly because as it came to the front of your mind, you wrote it down. I hope this helps and this has been really good for me and my husband as he gets exhausted trying to help me heal when I tell him over and over. He understands as he has his own stuff he suffered but does not need me to rehash it too much. We gotta change the talk to see ourselves walking in a new path of reconnection to the self we lost in all of this. Just like we have to talk it out or journal it out, we need to change the thoughts and narrative to a positive one about ourselves. The abusers will never do that or admit a thing but we can and should admit it to ourselves as well as get it out of our brain so the brain/mind can have room for a new life of great adventures and memories. We will then reconnect to our lost self and be able to move out of that trauma brain and unravel that junk to live a healthy life without fear of forgetting anything.
My parents were not diagnosed narcissists, but they only ever cared about themselves. They screamed all the time and made me feel responsible for everything. At the same time, they also made me feel powerless and made sure to remind me I was not in control. My parents took my family away and because of them, I will never have parents and my kids won't have grandparents. I am grieving and I am sad.
My parents died in the last 2 yrs. I'm still trying to figure out how to perceive life without narcissistic influence. ptsd? Always hyperalert for narcissistic people.
Feeling the grief intensely is difficult, but ultimately healing. Honor yourself through the process, eventually you will heal and move on. You may still have flashbacks and triggers, but it’s ok. Gradually you can feel a sense of autonomy and safety.
In my journey to discover myself, I've had many bad experiences with therapists. Having your content each Sunday is my therapy right now! Your videos cut to the core of what I have experienced and the fact that you offer concrete actions for solutions is life-changing. You are allowing me to look toward myself instead of toward other people for the first time in my life. Thank you.
I feel the same. Jay is helping me after having only negative experiences with therapists. I see people posting that they get so much help from their great therapists and I’m thinking how can they find one and afford one. I started in therapy at 29. I’m almost 63 and I just found Jay. Previously I got nothing or bad things from inadequate therapists who had issues of their own to work on. I feel kind of hopeless and like it’s too late for me but it’s better than not knowing I guess. Good luck with the healing process!
@@christar9527 I've not had any luck finding a good, affordable therapist, either. However, I don't think therapy is necessary in order to heal. Jay talks about the three pillars of healing: making sense of what happened and realizing you're not to blame, getting distance from the abuser(s), and living in defiance of the narc rules. None of those pillars require a therapist. I'm finding so much useful information from Jay's videos and people's comments, as well as other sources. There is more insight and validation than one therapist could ever provide, although, admittedly, it's not coming from a personal relationship. So, all this information is a huge relief, and gives me the strength to live through the breaking of the trauma bonds with my abusers (siblings, in this case, narc parent is dead). This information also helps me to go through the aha moments and realizations that allow me to find ways to change my outlook so as to live in defiance of the narc rules (it helps that I've always had a strong rebellious streak). It takes time, there are so many layers, but that's true if you have a therapist, too. The therapist I tried to work with didn't have a clue, and invalidated my perceptions even when she barely knew me. Who needs that?
The best video I've ever seen because I can recognize the hope of getting love, praise and acceptance from my mother for decades until I broke contact after I had to admit that this was never going to happen. The grief I went through after this mentally difficult realization was intense and huge. When I was subsequently able to put a label on my mother's narcissistic personality disorder and the psychological damage she inflicted on me throughout my childhood, youth and adult life, it was both a shock and a relief at the same time. Once I had gained this knowledge, I was able to move on in my life and process the psychological damage. One of the most difficult things in this process is that no one around you understands what you are talking about and what you have been through in terms of sorrows, frustrations, anger, grief. It is very lonely to live in this emotional drama and emotional chaos where the person who should take good care of you, your own mother, exposes you to hell on earth, psychologically !
I found another layer of grief after already leaving the narc family and grieving the loss of them. It was the realization that the narcs were never able to grieve WITH me during truly tragic events in childhood. This led to a new layer of grief. It was grief for MYSELF, that I was never able to process early hurts properly. I think this realization was a good healing step, although some may see it as just "feeling sorry for myself". Seeing the narcs as the people who were dysfunctional is a healing step. They were unable to feel compassion which led to me being unable to process grief. It took me decades to understand this, but, oh well. Better late than never. I just found your channel and am appreciating your videos. Thank you.
Why the fuck shouldn't we feel sorry for ourselves when we are suffering? Isn't that part of grieving? I'm really tired of all the pressure to smile and "be positive" when life is so full of pain. It's okay to feel sorry for others, right? Why then can't we feel sorry for ourselves? Not forever, of course, not to get stuck in it, but when it is appropriate, when we are grieving... Anyway, I'm glad you are opening to your feelings, allowing them to process through you, so you can love.
These videos are so so powerful. It’s oddly a mirror to my current life, I stopped wishing for what I’ll never have from my mother or even my father. I have just accepted it, moved out of my hometown and started completely over. I feel like an individual and I have so much love for life and others now… it’s crazy what they do to your psyche over the years. I almost committed suicide this year and I have since attended therapy and my therapist and your videos have truly helped me. I have a new drive for life and am realizing how deeply disturbed these people are. They have no empathy, you are an object to them, not a person. Remember this!
I don’t know that there is an anymore important video than this. It’s so sad to think of all the young ones feeling so bad, like they are bad, because of these toxic parents. I’m just so glad they’ll meet angels along the way, to show them love, and that they are love. And GOOD.
Radical surrender to the reality of my life story allowed a spiritual journey that has made me grateful for this incarnation. Choosing love out of constant abuse is not just empowering, but healing.
I have been estranged from my parents for 20 years, but the grief never really ends because life continues to happen and there are birthdays and graduations and weddings with kids you love and you are no comfortable or welcome. Also, if you had children in the narcissistic relationship the worst may not be over if they were traumatized. My relationship with the narcissists ended when I was 35 but my kids had another decade of involvement with them without my protection. My kids hit their teens with pronounced CPTSD. Self medication began and by the time my son was free of his dad he was using drugs. He died at 20 of an accidental overdose, and the grief of that loss has certainly been complicated because narcissism was the catalyst and also was the reason his brother and I had no support. The terrible abuse may be over but the trauma and loss will always be part of us.
The worst doesn’t feel over. After 5 years no contact I’m being blamed by my sibling for my mother’s depressive, alcoholic decline and tormented likely imminent death due to my ‘abandonment’; I feel horrific guilt as I am so attuned to my mothers emotions I know this state and condition is real. This knowledge and feeling haunts me. I’ve been verbally attacked and threatened by this sibling and I’m back in the hell by being drawn into the dynamics once again. I’m trying now to re instill my boundaries and distance but I feel battered and traumatised a new. I feel completely alone. My capacity to manage the stress of my everyday life is deeply compromised due to these pressures consuming me. I don’t know how il ever find peace from all of this. I’m 46, so much of my life has been consumed by my family traumas. I’m not allowed to move on or break away. I’m being persecuted and punished psychologically for leaving my scapegoat & caretaker role😔
@Amy P Happy they could help, but you're gonna have to learn to begin comforting yourself. Check out the research into breathwork, cold therapy, narcissistic abuse and the Wim Hof method. I wish you well, Amy! 🫂
@@JeffCaplan313 you’re right, thank you. I know a lot about narc’ abuse and recognise all the traits in my situation and still it can hook me.. the pain is linked to grief too, losing my whole family (having to cut myself off) as narcissism, codependency and alcoholism is so rife, plus the guilt and wake of my leaving and what that brought to my door. Will look more at breathwork.. cold therapy and wim hof method, I don’t know about those unless cold water is linked to emotional regulation /trauma and bodily response from submerging into cold water..I’ve read and heard about that. Yes I have got to be my own rescuer but the mountain of pain feels humanly insurmountable sometimes. Hope I can do it x thanks again x
It sounds like this sibling is a narcissist too. It’s outrageous that they blame you for your mother’s decline. She did it herself. Your sibling is a jerk because no normal sibling would say or think such things. My narcissistic brother tried such tricks on me and poisoned our entire family against me using such stupid arguments. Please pull away when you can. Your sibling sees that you can be manipulated through your guilt. It’s not your fault. What happened to your mother is not your fault at all. Your were the strong one who got away.
Grief is incredibly overwhelming, I feel a much younger me hurting. The mom narcissist has been put in a nursing home by her flying monkeys ( my disordered siblings she chose), and i was blocked from participating in the dissolution of the family household. So no choice of grandparents mementos, nor parents mementos. Then the youngest sister openly states to me that once mother passes she does not care what happens to me she will have zero contact or concern. I knew that, but hearing it verbalized started the grief. During this 2 week period the ex narc bf contacts to tell me he has connected with one of his daughters and she is all he needs in life ( he is 70), and she his child is everything I'm not. OK so my family up front tells me I'm not of concern, and the ex grandiose narc who brought me to this city, has to tell me a year after discard that I'm not needed in his life at all (fine but the extra stab was unnecessary ). So yes grief is real, my therapist is perplexed by it.
I must use the transformative power of grief to fully recover from the narcissistic abuse I want to. I need to cry over the relationship I have had with my narcissistic mother and sister. "Pleasure is shallow, our sorrows are deep"- Native American proverb
"This is when it becomes possible to notice the contrast between the relationsships with safe people and with people in the narcissistic system." So true! 6:54
I'm sure glad you understand all this. My past therapists have suggested I reason with my narcissistic parent. That's when I feel like they don't get it.
For me, the grief was the most important and hardest step in recovery. I’m glad it’s mostly behind me. It was painful but so much good came out of it. I wrote poetry through that last part that I’m very proud of. Thanks Jay! You’re the best out there on this subject, hands down.
Wow. My grief was so full on. I felt so angry , like rage bc I felt so unheard on top of all the abuse , all the wishing in the world felt so bad so empty. It took 7 years and then my mothers Death 2 years post to feel somewhat calm again . My entire being changed my look changed . My face changed , I am a different person now .I never got closure, I still sit with my confusion , I also realise that I have PTSD
Your "mother" sounds like a clone of mine. The covert ignoring type of narcissist who is jealous of her own daughter and makes a "son husband" out of her Golden Child son. My parents made it clear after my much younger brother was finally born that I was "second best" because I was "female".....
My mother was like this too. It has helped so much, even after years of active recovery from a lifetime of being the scapegoat and enduring various forms of abuse (physical, sexual, psychological, spiritual, social slandering, etc) to know that I’m not alone in dealing with this. I’m proud of the kind, protective, loving, strong, courageous, and empathic person I have been since a very young age, even if it meant I was targeted for it. We the victims of this devastating abuse survived despite everything! I feel so proud of that now. 💖
Relationships don’t go away just because someone died. The horror, mommy dearest, that evil exists until my end. Oh how I need to find healthy and surround myself. I’m introvert and it’s not easy this way. So few I come upon.
@@IAM-bg3ml The narcissists pick the best and nicest people to violate and anihiilate (spelling?) We should be happy we’ve survived and we’re not like them.😊
I hear the word "therapy" thrown around like its free. When I've tried to seek a therapist who specialized in NPD they charged a minimum of $300 - $500/hr. One day I hope to be able to afford therapy. Until then it's youtube.
Amen Totally agree. But we are very lucky to have YT especially for us who can't afford it. Pray for me, I want to start my own YT channel to help other survivors. Blessings to you.
This is a great video. I didn't know that we attract narcissists after leaving the toxic home because we don't feel safe to have our needs met by others. So, in a way, we attract narcissists out of the fear of being abused. But we end up being abused anyway, which is like a double-edge sword problem.
I think there's a caveat to this. Externally the Narc is in the review mirror but like the soldier who returns from war, the PTSD starts when he returns home. We get out of the situation, and the. Stage 1 recovery begins with a PTSD crash. Also Trauma survivors are extremely vulnerable to repitiion compulsion and can seek, or even be sought by people who return the victim to the abuse matrix. This happened to me. Abuse victims can be painfully unaware of exploitative/ harmful people so we must proceed with care in the quest for new relationships but with faith that there are safe people in the world
I've had a similar experience. Sometimes I feel like a rabbit among wolves...like prey among predators. It's a challenge for me not to attract unsafe people because I guess I'm showing some vulnerability. It helps to know that I'm not the only one dealing with that.
yes and i think the thing to learn is that depending on the way someone processes their own deep shame it can make them potentially dangerous, most people who prey on us were probably preyed on its how they give themselves a pass because someone crossed a line with them so now they can do the same, obviously every predator knows somewhere inside themselves they are being wrong.
The reality of the dysfunction is displaced by the margin of safety. Do not go back kiddies They dont want what is best for you. They want what is easiest for themselves
I recognize this .thank you . As a scapegoat healing with therapy now I feel what you say . Only with distance you can get your mind and power back . They have no controle any more 🙏 it's a very heavy proces indeed.
We are grieving what we actually didn't have, not the real family experience we left. I also try to remind myself that it could have been worse. My experience was not as bad as most. I am grateful for that, and that is what I focus on.
@@cherylm5002 We can choose life and start living it our way. And develop a sense of humor. It helps a lot. Look for the joke in things. Peace, Cheryl.
Thank you Jay for the videos. These help alot and it helps to make sense of our experience and how to get out of it and heal and move on. Staying in these relationships is very damaging to our hearts and souls and so I'm glad we have a safe space to stand and heal. ❤
Thank you for the nice video. I wish I had this information 50 years ago. It took me way too long to discover what I needed to let go of for good. I'm still working on it now. I didn't have the knowledge to understand what I was doing to allow it by giving in and going back to it because it was my family. We don't want to give up on family, right? Well, we must see that all the explaining we wasted our time on to the narcissist was a complete waste of our time because they never show growth. I could see it as such, but I didn't connect it all. Duh! All of this is so painful and we end up so hard on ourselves for them not being able to do better. It is so confusing for sure. We think we can fix it, but we never can. They don't want to be fixed. They love having all the control and doing all the taking. When someone shows you what they are, do yourself a favor and listen to them. Don't waste as much time as I did trying to fix what I thought was a misunderstanding on the narcissist side. In reality it was me that needed to wake up and see the truth. Be careful out there.
The final straw for me to finally get the courage to go no contact was when my mother decided to go into my room to tell me " Theres something mentally wrong with you, its not your fault, but there is" because I decided that I wanted to live with my girlfriend who is incredibly supportive of me in every way.. I've been gaslit and manipulated my whole life and was in denial about it
I'm in so much peace after cutting out my Dad (Grandiose Complex Narc) and his mother (Cover Narc). They neglected me and my sis for the better part of our upbringing, I was too fat, too needy, but did well academically and that's when I was recognized. My sister has ADD and she was deemed not smart and too much to deal with, but was great on Track 🏃♀️ and whenever she won a race she was recognized. We lived on false hope and broken promises from their part. When our parents divorced my dad "punished" my mom by not giving child support and my grandmother would say that's what we deserve for kicking his son out of the house (after beating up my mom, she never acepted her son is an abuser). When I went to college, they learned I was studying Architecture and out of the blue I was the favorite grandson, recieved financial help from them and I was naive enough to actually move in with my grandmother bc college was closer from her house. It was a living hell, everything was transactional and one-sided conditions. I left at 26 yes old, cut them out completely, now at 28 I'm doing my own thing and am at peace with myself.
Its confusing recognising safe people as the narcissist would ironically say your only safe with me even though they were abusive to help. Thanks jay you have clarified alot of confusion where the normal growing up is in awareness not normal and can save others from this mind knot.
I really had to distance myself from my family. There is so much toxicity going on there since I was a child, I thibk I am the scapegoat of the family. So that's why I always ask myself if I'm just overreacting or blame myself. I'm really alone right now because also my relationships were toxic and sometimes I'm asking myself if I will ever find some people that are just good to me. The worst thing is to stand up for yourself even if you are lonely then and have no one left... It is so hard to handle this feeling and not just going back to them to at least have someone. :(
Wow! This video has such powerful information in it and the wisdom that can be taken from the chaos, bringing one to control and order in one's OWN life is beautiful. Discretion is my favorite thing. I love that word. Being respected to a point where you can be private about yourself with the best people for you. Narcs feel like they own you and have no discretion when things don't go their way. They see the world so finitely that it's pretty for lack of a better word, pathetic, because it's that of a child that never ever grows up. They cannot honor someone's humanity when that human is not what they want them to be. Suddenly everyone they know could know about how not good enough you are to them, and you live with this fear that they will ruin your reputation. The truth is, if they do, the people that they are able to convince or want to be convinced by them, they're not worth it anyway. I'm 30 and still learning this, wrapping up a long healing process. I finally feel supreme joy for being alive without that abuser in my life. Also how you describe at 15:18 about hoovering is so absolutely on point. You cannot and will not go back to someone who hurts you again and again when you are able to be safe enough to choose that. You're then able to accept yourself and recover! Those who dys-regulate me cannot regulate me.
Just wanted to point out there are always a disproportionate number of "likes" vs. views on Jay's videos and that's because his content is amazing! He gets it. Incredible and I always watch 2-3 times, but that counts as 1 view... At the moment, 343 views and 61 likes. Seems to me the usual ratio is something like 10 views for 1 like. In this case, Jay would need nearly twice as many views (more than 600) for so many likes ;-) Your channel is much appreciated. Thank you.
UA-cam is ran by the globalist psychopaths that control our evil system (which is why they hide information on narcissistic abuse because it is widespread and goes from top to bottom). And for this reason they jack with the viewer count and "likes" on any videos that tell the truth about things that the system suppresses. Now if you go some idiotic "twerking" or "tic toc" or "kitty" videos the likes will be in the THOUSANDS because they leave those mindless types of things alone. They like us to be as dumb and immoral as possible. Much easier for them to deceive and control us that way. These Cluster Bees are all offspring of Cain via the Serpent in the Book of Genesis..see Genesis 3:15 about the "two seedlines at enmity with one another"......we scapegoats are the Godly seedline. We are born with a conscience. The serpents are born with a reptilian mind (no or very little conscience, emotionally retarded, no empathy). They are the "Cain's" who murdered his empathic brother "Abel"....we are the "Abel's"......Also see Psalm 58:3-5 They have no moral compass. The MRI brain scans of psychopaths and narcissists are obvious to the layman. Frontal lobe is in darkness. The amygdala is shrunken and in darkness [appears like 'confidence' or 'no fear but it's inhuman psychopathy]. They 'think' in a superficial part of the upper back brain which is reptilian and not for the purpose of introspection type 'thinking'. They look like us on the outside only. They are a "different breed" altogether.
I watch these videos many times. I'm tired of all these other videos talking about narcissists. I've wasted years reflecting on the narcissists, negotiating with narcissists, arguing in my head on behalf of narcissists. If only they knew how much attention they have consumed. They would love it. It is time to end that. Time to think about, and build up myself. I don't care what they do or say now... I just want to unload all that baggage that have dumped on me.
I can't over emphasize how right this assessment is and how much of this work I have had to do all by myself. I'm glad their are people out there to helps us and also become greater for a sense of self fulfilment. It's just phenomenal the language and work I did is so aligned to my own self therapy I have done. I'm so proud of myself to have figured this out and that it resonates with other people who have been on the receiving end. I pray and I'm glad more people are really being strong and speaking out.
We're all alone together. That's one of the things I learned from my yoga practice. Each person was struggling on their own mat with their own circumstances, and we were all doing that together. We weren't alone in our struggles. We were taking some action to care for ourselves. We all decided to show up. It's very powerful co-regulation for the nervous system.
There is ALWAYS unfinished business in a relationship to a narc. If you share kids, they will complicate custody no end. If it is a spouse, they will constantly violate the separation/divorce agreement. If it is a parent they will change their will so that it will take years to get through the courts....Ahh....if only one COULD just walk away......
that is what's happening with me and i was the scapegoat as a kid so the divorce thing almost sends me back into scapegoat mode over and over. i feel like someone needs to wave a magic wand and make it so the narc cant damage me further, its like someone is cutting off my limbs one by one and i cant stop it.
"needing to hold on to that wish" yes so cruel its pathology they are sick nothing you could ever do erases the crimes they commit against you they only know how to commit crimes against you its excruciating but you have to stop enabling tell the truth and let them go its the only way you can survive and have healthy relationships and protect others
I had a huge friendship ending fight earlier in the week, and this really helped me with mentally considering the alternate reality to the character attack I got for voicing a boundary/reciprocity concern.
brilliant video and explanations. So helpful. Would have needed your insights about 30 years ago. Am 59 and only just let go of the whole narc family of origin
is it possible that parents are not actually narcissistic but as an unseen entity the narcissism actually exists as the family system functions? Hence the power of no contact dissipates the matrix. One thing I have noticed in these family dynamics and I'm not sure if true....those of that end of the narcissistic spectrum do not apologize.
Thank you for this! I didn't even know I couldn't be myself around her until my very intimidating mother went into a care facility. I realized suddenly why I then couldn't be around her and how bad my anxiety had been for decades. The guilt of not be able to visit her much was terrible until I understood all this. This video helps tremendously. It's really hard when the narcissistic, mean parent gets old.
I’ll never feel safe from my narcissistic sister. She’s younger than me and has coerced my 87 year old Mom to let my sister be the trustee of my share of the will. She has fed her so many lies about me. I feel like I’ll have a noose around my neck for the rest of my life.
Even after death they control. I made a decision to walk away from an inheritance. The narcissist & minion dangle it like a carrot on a stick (to lead the mule). There's no "happy family" momentos, only things & possessions. Money doesn't fill the gaping holes, much prefer to be poor than beholden to them.
I subscribed and glad I did. But it's hard to watch the videos because his analysis, examples, and insights - they are spot on. It shows his true expertise and knowledge of these family dynamics. I need healing so I watch them, it just brings up such accurate details, that it's difficult to process. None the less, I'm grateful for Jay, his selflessness in creating these videos, and wish I could afford/have 1 on 1's with a therapist and psychologist who is this specialized. I wish I heard this in my 20's and could have traveled the path toward healing and understanding long before much of life has already passed me by.
This happened to me and you’ve explained it! Long story short, I left my narcissistic family and friends and began meeting more safe people than ever before and I genuinely became happy. I just never connected it to leaving the narcissistic people. 😮 the original narcissists were outraged that I was just not available for their “shit” anymore and actually began a very long smear campaign that I’m still dealing with 40 years later! Dr. I’m just in awe of your understanding and explanation on these things that happen with narcissistic people. TYSM 😳🤔🫢
I really like and need your videos. I was a victim of Narcissistic parents who abused in every way possible. Now in the process of divorce to my Narc wife and receiving but verbal abuse, I am seeing that I am following my childhood patterns in my adult life. I'm so used to Narcs that I assumed everyone behaves just like them.....It is all I know!
I read the book Leaving Home, and that has been such a relief. Thank you for the recommendation. Good tears from the sad years. Please anymore books you recommend. Thank you for being out here.
Gosh Jay you remind me of you tuber Peace and Harmony. You both are making huge contribution to we who suffer the narcissistic abuse. Much gratitude from me in New Zealand
3 years ago I left both, my narc mother and husband. I cut off all friends in common with my husband because he had already tod them his story. I kept in touch with a brother and some family member but at arms lengh. I finally got over the guilt and hope that my mother was going to treat me better. To all young people out there, don't wait until you are 56 to go. Please dont. They are not going to change.
You are not alone. Best wishes for your continued healing
so your brother isnt an enabler or flying monkey for your mom? i used to see my siblings as neutral but whenever i opened up recently with them they would play devil's advocate and turn on me
@@leahflower9924 I is always a wish to believe that your "family" is going to discern.....but you are right, my brother still throe shade
I'm 56, also. Mother and step mother are both covert narcs, as are other familia, and you can't say much, if anything, to their "flying monkey" entourage without further consequences. I agree with the premise of going: "No Contact." (Similar to saying: "I will NOT comply," to tyrannical (i.e. narc and psycho controlled) governance, or in many a workplace, house of worship, etc.) If they are close family, even going to see them once or twice a year still keeps their "hooks in you..." because they'll call, stop by, ask to or for your help, etc. I've also noticed that many of them later end- up isolated and alone in their homes, then often self or state institutionalized (with other narcs) but they made the conscious choice to become narcs (increasingly of late for "entitlement' vs. "abuse and neglect," reasoning...) just as we chose NOT to become "part, of the collective problem!"
I did it too. At the age of 52.
Scapegoat here, abused for 42 years by every single one of them and their circles. Yet i don't think isolation is forever, we are good people and with healing come wonders in our life. It shall pass, you will bloom, have faith in yourself.
They make it sound so over and lonely. I am the scapegoat and I have the best connections with my inner circle and work relationships. Most of us become very successful in a field of our choice and live the beautiful life we deserve. You are your surroundings make sure it’s a safe space for you! Much love!
"The cost of admission to a relationship with a narrsasist is self annihilation" Pete walker, from surviving to thriving. The losses are CATASTROPHIC and the grief overwhelming. There's a lot to be grieved for, so many deaths. The loss that underpins all others is the SOUL MURDER. The grieving process ( which I am deep in) is in part attempts at soul retrieval. But be careful who you let into your life when going through this process, I found myself reaching out to unsafe/ abusive people early on..
I get that, reaching out to unsafe people. I feel a bit wobbly in this area, I think I just got roped in by someone who makes me feel good,then bad, then good, on and on. I don’t think this is healthy?
Well stated. It was another layer of pain discovering 2/3 of my friends/associates were as depleting to my well being as my family of origin. Being in company of unhealthy people felt normal . Healing my narcissistic “ fleas” from my toxic family is pretty gutwrenching. Boundaries are the antidote. We must guard against over isolating, as there is no growth when we construct walls no one can climb. I survived this life with god given resilience. Perseverance…….. no drugs or alcohol so I can hear the “ signal” clearly.🌎
Thank you for sharing this. I can totally relate with all that you said so very well. This can be a very lonely and heart breaking, yet healing place to be in one's life. (in this similar space now too) Wishing you and all of us much peace, healing and a life of happiness and a deepening and renewed sense of self respect and love. 💜🦋💜
don't know why we attract more Narcisist, it might be rooted in our subconscious believe, having normal friends do feel odd for me, as all i know it's toxic friends...
You've really got that right. I have fallen into that trap big-time. It really does feel the way you're describing.
After leaving the Narcisstic family, you come to realize that some of your bosses are Narcissists and your significant others and you finally leave these entrapment and you realize your government is Narcissitic and gaslighting and it never seems to end. The gift is I can all see it now. I thought when my mother died it would all be over and apparently it will never end, your just grow and heal. The Narcissitic system lives on in our corporations, government and our world.
@Dunno Doughnut Thank you for your kind words. During my commute I listened to a book on tape ,after coming to these realizations,. It was written by TIME magazine journalist called the Narcissist Next Door and broke it down even further . Once the cover is off the cover is off. I actually am now thankful for the Narcissist in my life to a degree for waking me up..of course I had the choice not to but when the pain is that bad. You know...
EXACTLY!! 💯
You nailed it Miller!
you're right the type of narcissist who thrives on wall street etc is glorified and if you stop and think about it what are they glorified for we have no indication they are even a decent person, shouldnt we be glorifying nurses and firefighters at least the nice ones? lol
You got that right. You do start to recognize narcissism everywhere,
My mother disowned me 4 years ago. It was actually a blessing. I grew up with a very covert narcissist stepdad. I always Been a doormat, people pleaser. Scared to say no to anyone. We got disowned or kicked out the house if we had feelings or opinions. My mom never protected us..we were always bad if we spoke up. She cut me out of the will.
Hurts not having a mom that loves me..but learning to love myself has been the best gift ❤❤❤
Great job! You’re a wonderful child and you have wisdom. ❤️🌈☀️😊
Can I talk to you?
I found that a massive hurdle, after repeated hoovering and pure malicious destruction always being the end result of any reconciliation when you can again tell yourself with ease and no tears that your mother doesn't love you never did never will and you are nothing but another tool to her
oh how they love to hold inheritance over the head of their offspring. no one of merit wants their lil dollars. X)
My narcissist sister has cut me off for saying what I felt only her and her close family are allowed feelings she’s done me a favour just dealing with all the suppressed emotions good for you well done to your strength ❤
Can confirm this. It's the proximity of this person or ppl in your life that is causing the chaos. Once you break the toxic bond, and become happy with yourself, you'll naturally move away from anything that causes you emotional harm. Which is healthy and normal.
📌
well said.
💯💯💯
Leaving the narcissistic family is a must. However, after a childhood of abuse scapegoat remains isolated and alone for life. Family never addresses the abuse or trauma afflicted on the scapegoat. He must leave to protect sanity and to remain isolated and lonely for life. Reviewing my childhood memory I came to a painful realization that I was never allowed to be a child. Details of abuse and neglect are too painful for me to face🖤🖤🖤
I hear you
i am a scapegoat and it is so ingrained in me that i feel the urge to play scapegoat in every part of my life only reason i wanna do the hard work now is because i'm struggling with my own kids i don't have a problem with them but when you have kids that look like you it will remind you how much you are still a wounded kid
@@leahflower9924 Once you see yourself and love yourself, you will see and love your children as well.
I know about that. The family scapegoat is lucky to even be alive. I mostly isolate myself from the world and have occasional conversations with my partner who finally stopped abusing me.
That voice-in-the-head we all have is not our voice - it's the feedback and attitudes from our parents from childhood to about age 7 to 9 - when our self-worth or lack thereof is set up by the parents - not the child. Through feedback and attitude and emotional bond (or lack thereof). And that voice echoes through the rest of our life.
I hear you too - the same story for myself. A bad start in a narcissistic family system as scapegoat wrecks so much in life.
I just had a meltdown 6 months NC and it seriously comes in waves and almost out of no where.
Yeah, there does come a "the dream is over" moment when you realize just how self-centered the parent is and that you'll never get what you wanted. It frees you up to move on and take care of yourself.
I agree
I know it's not possible for everyone but I can say that 800 miles is a fantastic amount of distance.
Love this!!
Doesn’t have to be. I drew the boundary with my narcissistic mother who lives a mile/walking distance away. It’s amazing how narcissistic people simply move on to other supply; they never loved or cared about anyone but themselves. I like actually that she’s close because if she ever decides that she needs anything from me, I can do my duty while maintaining my boundary with her.
600+ is enough that they don’t just drop on in. It wasn’t done on purpose by me, but now I’m grateful for the distance.
I’ve been thinking about moving lol but I genuinely don’t want to but this is a good motivation
I was raised in a very toxic emotionally abusive family. They're gone now as I'm 62 as I write this.
I was an adoptee, and I was taught "to be grateful" that I was given to my parents. That I had a home. I'm not going to get into all the abuse I'd suffered but just let's say they took a lot of their frustrations out on my little body. If this happened in today's world they'd have been put in jail. It was a different world in the 60s where many children died and many of us were scarred.
The thing that saved me was the idea that I was not RELATED to them, and I could be my own person in my adult years.
I had 2narcisstic husband's, 1 emotional, the other physical. I needed closure so I sought out these videos to start understanding what I've been through. I need to tell you I'm still understanding and am growing out of the trauma.
Adoptive kids deal with our own set of problems, and that needs to be addressed as well.
I'm so sorry that you experienced that in your life. You seem like a beautiful person who understands compassion.
I'm heartbroken to hear even part of your story. You are strong and amazing! Thank you for this inspiring comment 🙏❤️
Heartbreaking
Thank you for your courage to share 🙏 ❤
For years I entertained the idea that I had been "switched at birth", that someday a couple would knock on the door an collect me, as their own child. When I was old enough to examine my birth certificate I realized that they really were my biological parents and was devistated! At 13 I left - ran 3,000 miles by myself - it was hard but worth it. Trouble is, I didn't understand the abuse. I felt terrible being the scapegoat. For 50 years I have stayed in touch, hoping that they would accept me if I became a better person, was trained that all the bad family stuff was my fault. Now, at 63 I finally know the truth. It's them, not me. I have been NC for a month now, and it HURTS!! But, at least I'm not being abused by them. 😢
I was lucky enough to find a great therapist that showed me this exact thing. He showed me how healthy people relate. He saved my life.
Me too. I did 5 years with one of the best therapists there is. She said I was good to go after 2 1/2 years but I knew I wasn't. I had a huge breakthrough connecting to my heart in a deep way 6 months later. Honor your own timeline. Happy for you.
Incredibly painful. Whole family of origin, 21 months no contact
Great Job. Prayers for you. Keep up the good work.
Me since 2009
18 months myself
If you are an adult family member, and you see a narcissist inflicting cruelty on a minor, it is your responsibility to protect the minor, not the narcissist. I can't believe I even have to say this, but apparently, protecting a minor seems to be a rare thing these days. Why is this happening in our present-day society? When did we stop protecting children?
I don't think we ever did protect them. We actually had to put child labor laws in place last century just so they wouldn't be exploited workkng in factories.
In the past, child abuse was hushed up by society at large, even as recently as the 80's. Only recently have people even started to talk about it openly. People have always abused children. You can even find mummified ancient children who were killed as sacrifices by their communities. Which is actually not that different from what happens to scapegoats.
We are only just starting to protect children.
I think it's been going on for a while. The American Indians used to refer to the pilgrims as "ones who beat their children".
Yes!
This is a new thing. Children have more rights and protection now than they ever have. Hopefully it just continues until we stop the trauma that creates these narcs.
around 6000 years ago...
I'm greiving the love I gave to these evil people. I'm greiving the inability to ever truly love myself. I'm also enraged that I was forced to see these creatures as better than myself. I pray every day for deliverance from their evil and protection from allowing other devil's in my life. Thanks Jay the video helps.
GReat, GReat, me too, you speak exactly what I want to say
You said my mind right
I hope you will come to appreciate all the strength and grace you have had to develop in your life to cope with such trauma. You are lovable and worthy of respect, love, and kindness, and I hope you will come to truly love yourself--you deserve it.
I am also in my grieving phase I have accepted that my mom is incapable mother a covert NPD...It is painful that i could not see it for too long...Lost many time and people in the journey bcoz of her..41 years lost in managing her emotions and needs.
Yes, I agree with all the commenters and thank you for your courage to share. I left my Narc parent 3 years ago and they just passed last week. I can imagine what you've been through. Through my pain I cried out to Jesus and was given the gift of eternal life in heaven and the Holy Spirit. It was a free gift. But instead of just growing in my relationship with God through scripture. I can totally relate to all the love you said you gave to these evil people. I felt I had to also attend church. Churches in our country are prime environments for Narc's. They give sermons and do all the talking and give all the lessons with no obligation to hear any return communication. The level of control the leaders in even some of these small to medium sized churches is staggering. They are truly evil. It's through comments like yours and sharing about how you continued to love on them that helps me to feel I'm not alone. is what helps me to heal as well. Thank you for your courage and generosity in sharing your story. Isaiah 55:1-4
This reminds me of a psychologist I once happened to talk to who said ''I have to mourn everything I was entitled to but never got", referring to being a child growing up within a dysfunctional family system. It was 35 years ago but these words made an everlasting impact on me, often reflecting on it and something that became very helpful to me during the years. At the time being I didn't even know anything about narcissism or words like 'dysfunctional family'. I don't remember what we were talking about or why but I think it was meant for me to hear. I think it resonates very well with "The power of grief after leaving the narcissistic family"
🙏🏻
Wow. That’s powerful.
Well said. It doesn’t matter if it happened yesterday or 35 years ago. Abuse stays with victims until they decide to do the inner work. It’s sad that these situations are so common and have become normalized. Thanks for sharing your story.
Thank you, this is helping me now as well.
I think I will have these words in mind for a while.
@@melmeyer0 🙏🏼💕
The empath child who left is the ❤ key of the truth...they do know that!
Scapegoat here - They make it sound so over and lonely. I am the scapegoat and I have the best connections with my inner circle and work relationships. Most of us become very successful in a field of our choice and live the beautiful life we deserve. You are your surroundings make sure it’s a safe space for you! Much love!
Doesn’t sound like you had much of a scapegoating experience. No one who has been badly scapegoated survived like that. The real evidence of scapegoating is how shattered a persons life has been. You don’t leave scapegoating and just make a safe space. It repeats in social and work environments. Unless you are the exception to the nature of scapegoating.
You are your surroundings. Wow, It's so true ❤
@@annastone5624 How would you know from one comment 🤔. Don't do that. What is your objective here
@@gjthomas9770 ..so you think having 'the best connections with inner circle and work relationships' and becoming 'very successful in their field', fits the pattern of symptoms experienced by scapegoating victims??... ok...
My objective is to encourage the accurate use of terminology. Sorry if you think I'm being unkind - but it's extremely important for victims of abuse who read these comment sections, many live in extreme poverty and social isolation, and continue to be bullied without any allies, support or escape.
@@gjthomas9770 you probably think I'm being unkind, but that's not my intention. Maybe there's more to the story, I'm commenting on the example given - that's all I can comment on. I made the comment with the objective of supporting victims of chronic scapegoating who have very profound and deblitating experiences.
I was 18 when I went no Contact with my narcissistic family. Its been a emotional rollercoaster to deal with the past. I am almost 21 now, still no contact. Thank you for this video.
I 've often wished over the years that I had put thousands pf miles between myself and family when I left home . Starting out with 15 miles separation and trying to maintain a low contact just didn't work , Narcissists still need a scapegoat and seek you out and bad mouth you to all the relatives still - they had to be left behind to clear the air too. A clean break with a great distance would have been the only effective solution .
I thought so as well. 4 decades later, I realize the unrelenting back biting gossip lived on without me, rippling across any geographic distance I created, damaging the majority of my family of origin relationships. Don’t be hard on yourself- though it is personally hurtful, being targeted by a narcissist is not personal, it is structural. You are part of the structural system of narcissism whether you are involved with a narcissist or not. In my experience, it is easier for the narcissist to spread lies when I was not present because the reality of the life I lived would not be an obvious opposition to their lies.
As a chosen scapegoat in my family siblings of 3. the other two above me where golden children. Which now at 48 i dont blame them.
i blame my dad who divided us all from a young age. Creating rivalrly and not giving us a chance to get to know eachother like normal brothers and sister should do and look out for one another.
I could never please my father and i had the balls to tell him to his face after i had to go to counselling to work out why he was different to me and nice to my two other siblings.
I limited my time around my Narc dad last few years called once a week and was doing great we had some sort of normalicy relationship but always was weird when he would make a nice comment to await the devalue one.
Was great to finally work out how fucked up this dynamic was.
I just kept strict boundaries then. Maybe his family dynamic was like this.
Anyhoo
Tried to make contact to try and come togther after my dad sadly passed last year
Only to realise the NARC Golden child brother and sister will carry on the same evil twisted behaviour my Dad emeshed in them especially my brother.
Learned a dear lesson...nearly crippled me ..dangerous twisted being
Stay the hell away from them
Live your life to as best as you can IF you were the scapegoat.
not your fault
It is your Fkd up parent
I am done with the siblings now...a stranger would treat you better and you wouldnt tolerate half their crap if it was from a friend.
I wish i had of been adopted into another loving family years ago...least i would of had normal half brothers and sisters
What helped me move out of grief was recognizing that even all my childhood needs were magically fulfilled now - it wouldn’t serve me anymore. The trauma has already occurred. It just clicked that all my life I was looking for the wrong medicine in the wrong place. It pointed into the direction that gave true healing. My own heart and a higher power.
That is so well articulated and really helpful. Thank you and best wishes.
OMG...I have been struggling for a couple of weeks...I keep noticing pictures of mothers reading to their child ...kissing them goodnight... hugging or warmly smiling at their child..and just REALLY absorbing the fact that she NEVER did those things...and not feeling depressed....but I finally realized it is not depression but lifelong SADNESS...
I decided to check your post and it was EXACTLY what I needed ..THANK YOU AGAIN SO MUCH!
Thank you for sharing that insight. It helps me a lot.
❤️,
Joost
Hey Jay,
What was the book you recommended to read to separate and individuated from narcissist family? I'm out wanting to pick it up but it's not in my search history. Thanks in advance.
Yes. even looking at how animals treat their babies makes me sad
when people are kind and gentle my first thought in general is whats up with them and then i quickly realize no they are fine and normal its me that finds kindness almost abnormal
I walked away after being told I had "false memory syndrome" about my father's abuse after 9 hours of therapy with 2 siblings.. I haven't seen anyone in my family in 19 years except maybe 6 unexpected street and work encounters with siblings, all of which were traumatizing and shaming to me. It took me the better part of 10 years to fully grieve the loss of a "tribe." I always knew my parents were off-the-charts fucked up, but it was the betrayal of my two siblings that hurt the most and does to this day. Really insightful content, Jay. Thank you.
I got told I had "imaginistis”! :D
Did the therapist say that???
I’m so sorry. I too have been most hurt by my siblings joining in on the scapegoating and not believing what our narcissistic parent did to me.
I am the oldest of four and this is what I’m grieving now after almost a decade of no contact. My siblings are still young and the betrayal of them still cuts like a knife. The hope and wish of having them suddenly come back is detrimental to me. I often give them excuses because they were so young and abused too.
@@Anechka1394 I can so relate to the excuse making. I still dream frequently about my siblings and in my dreams they are able to finally hear me and see the truth.
Jay the worst is NOT over because the narcissist steals other relationships and that continues to hurt and is not just a grief from the past but follows us after we are either ejected from the narcisstic family or leave ourselves.
Thanks, Jay! 'My needs are not as important as the needs of others' was probably the most prevalent lie I internalized growing up. Lately, I've taken a slightly different route (not exactly on purpose!) to the 'safe people' one. The people in my life now are safER, but there is also a lot more distance. I have NO close relationships. I'm finding the 'I am inadequate' lie being debunked simply by the fact that I'm not expending time, energy, and attention on other people. I do believe that relationships are meant to enhance one's life, but it's also not a bad in-between state to be basically without relationships, when the people in the old relationships took more than they gave. I'm experiencing that I am able to provide for myself and have a relatively comfortable life, which I never thought I could do. I didn't realize at the time that I couldn't have a good life BECAUSE I was pouring my resources into other people, which in turn had made me feel dependent on the same people who were taking my resources in the first place! Much like the 'wanting to be healed by the same person who hurt you' concept, I think. I really appreciate your input, Jay. These videos have been a great help to me.
You described so well where I am at right now! I have to keep reminding myself I survived despite all of the people that were close to me, not because of them. I believe connection to others is important for humans, but we can't have true connection with others until we can connect with ourselves and not feel like we need others. Right now I don't want to go looking for people to connect with because I need that to feel whole. Gabor Mate describes well how we can lose our autonomy as children when it threatens our connection with our parents. Enmeshed family systems convince us that our lives have no meaning unless we are enmeshed in the Ives if others. Until I feel worthy on my own, any connection with someone else is ripe for enmeshment.
@@goldieh7121 I love Gabor Mate! His writings have had a huge impact on me.
Thank you for sharing! I feel the same. Grieving process has been a roller coaster - every time it's a new depth of pain and grief, how much of my resources had been wasted on other people in one-sided relationships with users.
@@charissaschalk5175 I'm also a big fan of Gabor Mate, i have addictions, from his videos alone, i got good info' that it's all rooted from our inner wounds, which is childhood wounds....
i never read his books, but I'm admiring him
Thank you for sharing that, it was really helpful!
It’s a fact: nothing and no one is good enough for any narcissist. Things never ever get better with them.
It only gets worse.
Just stay away; as far away as possible. Don’t give any narcissist the chance to get through at all. Protect yourself.
There was definitely no good part of the relationship at any time for me. I have had to grieve what never was and never will be. I have also had to do it mostly alone because this is the kind of grief people don't want to hear about. So that adds another layer of anger, abandonment, and grief.
soo true
Yes, this has mostly been my experience, too, though I do have a couple of people who can listen to me occasionally. They are fellow survivors, so they understand. With everyone else, even some I suspect of being survivors, but who are probably still in denial, my experience has been that it's just not safe, even with a therapist.
Yes, a lot of the grieving is often done alone with no or very little support. It's taboo in society
Start a journal. You may not think journaling is for you like I thought but people don't want to hear about our grief every day. We need to talk about it every day sometimes. Here's the good part to journaling, When thoughts are overwhelming and you are sure you can't talk about it out loud, well, first pray to God and he listens but then jot your feelings down and your memories. This helps two ways. One, you can rid your mind of trying to remember it which is taxing and seems to interfere in that release we need so bad in order to let that out of ourselves.
Two, you do not have to constantly review the details because you have them documented. If you ever need this information in detail you have it. Something about that is liberating and helps. People who traumatize do not admit to anything and if you have it all documented, you will never be able to be gaslighted again. You will have your own proof for yourself that you remember it correctly because as it came to the front of your mind, you wrote it down.
I hope this helps and this has been really good for me and my husband as he gets exhausted trying to help me heal when I tell him over and over. He understands as he has his own stuff he suffered but does not need me to rehash it too much. We gotta change the talk to see ourselves walking in a new path of reconnection to the self we lost in all of this. Just like we have to talk it out or journal it out, we need to change the thoughts and narrative to a positive one about ourselves. The abusers will never do that or admit a thing but we can and should admit it to ourselves as well as get it out of our brain so the brain/mind can have room for a new life of great adventures and memories. We will then reconnect to our lost self and be able to move out of that trauma brain and unravel that junk to live a healthy life without fear of forgetting anything.
My parents were not diagnosed narcissists, but they only ever cared about themselves. They screamed all the time and made me feel responsible for everything. At the same time, they also made me feel powerless and made sure to remind me I was not in control. My parents took my family away and because of them, I will never have parents and my kids won't have grandparents.
I am grieving and I am sad.
Narcissists are rarely diagnosed because they rarely seek help. You are a victim of CPSTD. Praying for you.
My parents died in the last 2 yrs. I'm still trying to figure out how to perceive life without narcissistic influence. ptsd? Always hyperalert for narcissistic people.
It sounds one has to feel grief to recover. It's funny because I keep thinking Good Grief!
"Good grief" in this context reminds me of the character Sadness in the movie Inside Out.
Feeling the grief intensely is difficult, but ultimately healing. Honor yourself through the process, eventually you will heal and move on. You may still have flashbacks and triggers, but it’s ok. Gradually you can feel a sense of autonomy and safety.
In my journey to discover myself, I've had many bad experiences with therapists. Having your content each Sunday is my therapy right now! Your videos cut to the core of what I have experienced and the fact that you offer concrete actions for solutions is life-changing. You are allowing me to look toward myself instead of toward other people for the first time in my life. Thank you.
I feel the same. Jay is helping me after having only negative experiences with therapists. I see people posting that they get so much help from their great therapists and I’m thinking how can they find one and afford one. I started in therapy at 29. I’m almost 63 and I just found Jay. Previously I got nothing or bad things from inadequate therapists who had issues of their own to work on. I feel kind of hopeless and like it’s too late for me but it’s better than not knowing I guess. Good luck with the healing process!
@@christar9527 I've not had any luck finding a good, affordable therapist, either. However, I don't think therapy is necessary in order to heal. Jay talks about the three pillars of healing: making sense of what happened and realizing you're not to blame, getting distance from the abuser(s), and living in defiance of the narc rules. None of those pillars require a therapist. I'm finding so much useful information from Jay's videos and people's comments, as well as other sources. There is more insight and validation than one therapist could ever provide, although, admittedly, it's not coming from a personal relationship. So, all this information is a huge relief, and gives me the strength to live through the breaking of the trauma bonds with my abusers (siblings, in this case, narc parent is dead). This information also helps me to go through the aha moments and realizations that allow me to find ways to change my outlook so as to live in defiance of the narc rules (it helps that I've always had a strong rebellious streak). It takes time, there are so many layers, but that's true if you have a therapist, too. The therapist I tried to work with didn't have a clue, and invalidated my perceptions even when she barely knew me. Who needs that?
The best video I've ever seen because I can recognize the hope of getting love, praise and acceptance from my mother for decades until I broke contact after I had to admit that this was never going to happen. The grief I went through after this mentally difficult realization was intense and huge. When I was subsequently able to put a label on my mother's narcissistic personality disorder and the psychological damage she inflicted on me throughout my childhood, youth and adult life, it was both a shock and a relief at the same time. Once I had gained this knowledge, I was able to move on in my life and process the psychological damage. One of the most difficult things in this process is that no one around you understands what you are talking about and what you have been through in terms of sorrows, frustrations, anger, grief. It is very lonely to live in this emotional drama and emotional chaos where the person who should take good care of you, your own mother, exposes you to hell on earth, psychologically !
I found another layer of grief after already leaving the narc family and grieving the loss of them. It was the realization that the narcs were never able to grieve WITH me during truly tragic events in childhood. This led to a new layer of grief. It was grief for MYSELF, that I was never able to process early hurts properly. I think this realization was a good healing step, although some may see it as just "feeling sorry for myself". Seeing the narcs as the people who were dysfunctional is a healing step. They were unable to feel compassion which led to me being unable to process grief. It took me decades to understand this, but, oh well. Better late than never. I just found your channel and am appreciating your videos. Thank you.
Why the fuck shouldn't we feel sorry for ourselves when we are suffering? Isn't that part of grieving? I'm really tired of all the pressure to smile and "be positive" when life is so full of pain. It's okay to feel sorry for others, right? Why then can't we feel sorry for ourselves? Not forever, of course, not to get stuck in it, but when it is appropriate, when we are grieving... Anyway, I'm glad you are opening to your feelings, allowing them to process through you, so you can love.
These videos are so so powerful. It’s oddly a mirror to my current life, I stopped wishing for what I’ll never have from my mother or even my father. I have just accepted it, moved out of my hometown and started completely over. I feel like an individual and I have so much love for life and others now… it’s crazy what they do to your psyche over the years. I almost committed suicide this year and I have since attended therapy and my therapist and your videos have truly helped me. I have a new drive for life and am realizing how deeply disturbed these people are. They have no empathy, you are an object to them, not a person. Remember this!
I am happy to hear about your recovery.
Wish you the best! Let your new life be full of love and joy 🌸
same dude, i take dangerous route of suicides, Narcissist treated us like a bad person...
I don’t know that there is an anymore important video than this.
It’s so sad to think of all the young ones feeling so bad, like they are bad, because of these toxic parents. I’m just so glad they’ll meet angels along the way, to show them love, and that they are love. And GOOD.
Radical surrender to the reality of my life story allowed a spiritual journey that has made me grateful for this incarnation. Choosing love out of constant abuse is not just empowering, but healing.
I have been estranged from my parents for 20 years, but the grief never really ends because life continues to happen and there are birthdays and graduations and weddings with kids you love and you are no comfortable or welcome. Also, if you had children in the narcissistic relationship the worst may not be over if they were traumatized. My relationship with the narcissists ended when I was 35 but my kids had another decade of involvement with them without my protection. My kids hit their teens with pronounced CPTSD. Self medication began and by the time my son was free of his dad he was using drugs. He died at 20 of an accidental overdose, and the grief of that loss has certainly been complicated because narcissism was the catalyst and also was the reason his brother and I had no support. The terrible abuse may be over but the trauma and loss will always be part of us.
😢
The worst doesn’t feel over. After 5 years no contact I’m being blamed by my sibling for my mother’s depressive, alcoholic decline and tormented likely imminent death due to my ‘abandonment’; I feel horrific guilt as I am so attuned to my mothers emotions I know this state and condition is real. This knowledge and feeling haunts me. I’ve been verbally attacked and threatened by this sibling and I’m back in the hell by being drawn into the dynamics once again. I’m trying now to re instill my boundaries and distance but I feel battered and traumatised a new. I feel completely alone. My capacity to manage the stress of my everyday life is deeply compromised due to these pressures consuming me. I don’t know how il ever find peace from all of this. I’m 46, so much of my life has been consumed by my family traumas. I’m not allowed to move on or break away. I’m being persecuted and punished psychologically for leaving my scapegoat & caretaker role😔
I feel you. This too shall pass. You are here, now - take a healing breath and exhale the poison. ✌️
@@JeffCaplan313 thank you, those are comforting words 🙏x
@Amy P Happy they could help, but you're gonna have to learn to begin comforting yourself.
Check out the research into breathwork, cold therapy, narcissistic abuse and the Wim Hof method. I wish you well, Amy! 🫂
@@JeffCaplan313 you’re right, thank you. I know a lot about narc’ abuse and recognise all the traits in my situation and still it can hook me.. the pain is linked to grief too, losing my whole family (having to cut myself off) as narcissism, codependency and alcoholism is so rife, plus the guilt and wake of my leaving and what that brought to my door. Will look more at breathwork.. cold therapy and wim hof method, I don’t know about those unless cold water is linked to emotional regulation /trauma and bodily response from submerging into cold water..I’ve read and heard about that. Yes I have got to be my own rescuer but the mountain of pain feels humanly insurmountable sometimes. Hope I can do it x thanks again x
It sounds like this sibling is a narcissist too. It’s outrageous that they blame you for your mother’s decline. She did it herself. Your sibling is a jerk because no normal sibling would say or think such things. My narcissistic brother tried such tricks on me and poisoned our entire family against me using such stupid arguments. Please pull away when you can. Your sibling sees that you can be manipulated through your guilt. It’s not your fault. What happened to your mother is not your fault at all. Your were the strong one who got away.
Grief is incredibly overwhelming, I feel a much younger me hurting. The mom narcissist has been put in a nursing home by her flying monkeys ( my disordered siblings she chose), and i was blocked from participating in the dissolution of the family household. So no choice of grandparents mementos, nor parents mementos. Then the youngest sister openly states to me that once mother passes she does not care what happens to me she will have zero contact or concern. I knew that, but hearing it verbalized started the grief. During this 2 week period the ex narc bf contacts to tell me he has connected with one of his daughters and she is all he needs in life ( he is 70), and she his child is everything I'm not. OK so my family up front tells me I'm not of concern, and the ex grandiose narc who brought me to this city, has to tell me a year after discard that I'm not needed in his life at all (fine but the extra stab was unnecessary ). So yes grief is real, my therapist is perplexed by it.
I thought that I knew all of the good narcissistic abuse channels, then your channel found me today. Great content. Thank you!
I must use the transformative power of grief to fully recover from the narcissistic abuse I want to. I need to cry over the relationship I have had with my narcissistic mother and sister. "Pleasure is shallow, our sorrows are deep"- Native American proverb
"! It's Sunday" - me. I look forward to these videos like that. They are right on time.
"This is when it becomes possible to notice the contrast between the relationsships with safe people and with people in the narcissistic system." So true! 6:54
I'm sure glad you understand all this. My past therapists have suggested I reason with my narcissistic parent. That's when I feel like they don't get it.
Time to find another therapist. This one sounds like they are doing more harm than good. I've run into this quite a bit.
For me, the grief was the most important and hardest step in recovery. I’m glad it’s mostly behind me. It was painful but so much good came out of it. I wrote poetry through that last part that I’m very proud of.
Thanks Jay! You’re the best out there on this subject, hands down.
Wow. My grief was so full on. I felt so angry , like rage bc I felt so unheard on top of all the abuse , all the wishing in the world felt so bad so empty. It took 7 years and then my mothers Death 2 years post to feel somewhat calm again . My entire being changed my look changed . My face changed , I am a different person now .I never got closure, I still sit with my confusion , I also realise that I have PTSD
Your "mother" sounds like a clone of mine. The covert ignoring type of narcissist who is jealous of her own daughter and makes a "son husband" out of her Golden Child son. My parents made it clear after my much younger brother was finally born that I was "second best" because I was "female".....
My mother was like this too. It has helped so much, even after years of active recovery from a lifetime of being the scapegoat and enduring various forms of abuse (physical, sexual, psychological, spiritual, social slandering, etc) to know that I’m not alone in dealing with this. I’m proud of the kind, protective, loving, strong, courageous, and empathic person I have been since a very young age, even if it meant I was targeted for it. We the victims of this devastating abuse survived despite everything! I feel so proud of that now. 💖
we usually have complex ptsd i'm just saying that because some symptoms are different supposedly than someone experiencing 1 traumatic event
Relationships don’t go away just because someone died.
The horror, mommy dearest, that evil exists until my end. Oh how I need to find healthy and surround myself. I’m introvert and it’s not easy this way. So few I come upon.
@@IAM-bg3ml The narcissists pick the best and nicest people to violate and anihiilate (spelling?) We should be happy we’ve survived and we’re not like them.😊
I hear the word "therapy" thrown around like its free. When I've tried to seek a therapist who specialized in NPD they charged a minimum of $300 - $500/hr. One day I hope to be able to afford therapy. Until then it's youtube.
Amen Totally agree. But we are very lucky to have YT especially for us who can't afford it. Pray for me, I want to start my own YT channel to help other survivors. Blessings to you.
That’s ridiculous
This is a great video. I didn't know that we attract narcissists after leaving the toxic home because we don't feel safe to have our needs met by others. So, in a way, we attract narcissists out of the fear of being abused. But we end up being abused anyway, which is like a double-edge sword problem.
I think there's a caveat to this. Externally the Narc is in the review mirror but like the soldier who returns from war, the PTSD starts when he returns home. We get out of the situation, and the. Stage 1 recovery begins with a PTSD crash. Also Trauma survivors are extremely vulnerable to repitiion compulsion and can seek, or even be sought by people who return the victim to the abuse matrix. This happened to me. Abuse victims can be painfully unaware of exploitative/ harmful people so we must proceed with care in the quest for new relationships but with faith that there are safe people in the world
Well said.. return the victim to the abuse matrix.
I've had a similar experience. Sometimes I feel like a rabbit among wolves...like prey among predators. It's a challenge for me not to attract unsafe people because I guess I'm showing some vulnerability. It helps to know that I'm not the only one dealing with that.
yes and i think the thing to learn is that depending on the way someone processes their own deep shame it can make them potentially dangerous, most people who prey on us were probably preyed on its how they give themselves a pass because someone crossed a line with them so now they can do the same, obviously every predator knows somewhere inside themselves they are being wrong.
The reality of the dysfunction is displaced by the margin of safety. Do not go back kiddies
They dont want what is best for you. They want what is easiest for themselves
uncertainty... covert narcissistic mother and overt psychopathic father.... your video helped a lt thanks with love!
They don't deserve it, but find power in pitying them
I recognize this .thank you . As a scapegoat healing with therapy now I feel what you say . Only with distance you can get your mind and power back . They have no controle any more 🙏 it's a very heavy proces indeed.
When you are in the later stages of recovery you no longer have to go to the hardware store for bread.
We are grieving what we actually didn't have, not the real family experience we left. I also try to remind myself that it could have been worse. My experience was not as bad as most. I am grateful for that, and that is what I focus on.
Well said😥😥😥
@@cherylm5002 We can choose life and start living it our way. And develop a sense of humor. It helps a lot. Look for the joke in things. Peace, Cheryl.
Thank you Jay for the videos. These help alot and it helps to make sense of our experience and how to get out of it and heal and move on. Staying in these relationships is very damaging to our hearts and souls and so I'm glad we have a safe space to stand and heal. ❤
You got it!
For the validation, confirmation and insight that you bring me I Am Grateful 🙏🏼 Thank You Dear Sir 🙏🏼 THANK YOU.
15:32,I think this is one the fundamentals of narcissistic abuse, thank you Jay as always for your insight
Thank you for the nice video. I wish I had this information 50 years ago. It took me way too long to discover what I needed to let go of for good. I'm still working on it now. I didn't have the knowledge to understand what I was doing to allow it by giving in and going back to it because it was my family. We don't want to give up on family, right? Well, we must see that all the explaining we wasted our time on to the narcissist was a complete waste of our time because they never show growth. I could see it as such, but I didn't connect it all. Duh! All of this is so painful and we end up so hard on ourselves for them not being able to do better. It is so confusing for sure. We think we can fix it, but we never can. They don't want to be fixed. They love having all the control and doing all the taking. When someone shows you what they are, do yourself a favor and listen to them. Don't waste as much time as I did trying to fix what I thought was a misunderstanding on the narcissist side. In reality it was me that needed to wake up and see the truth. Be careful out there.
They have made me feel so low about myself. Some days I just can't escape the the grip of tightly wound feeling of inadequacy.
The final straw for me to finally get the courage to go no contact was when my mother decided to go into my room to tell me " Theres something mentally wrong with you, its not your fault, but there is" because I decided that I wanted to live with my girlfriend who is incredibly supportive of me in every way.. I've been gaslit and manipulated my whole life and was in denial about it
I'm in so much peace after cutting out my Dad (Grandiose Complex Narc) and his mother (Cover Narc). They neglected me and my sis for the better part of our upbringing, I was too fat, too needy, but did well academically and that's when I was recognized. My sister has ADD and she was deemed not smart and too much to deal with, but was great on Track 🏃♀️ and whenever she won a race she was recognized.
We lived on false hope and broken promises from their part. When our parents divorced my dad "punished" my mom by not giving child support and my grandmother would say that's what we deserve for kicking his son out of the house (after beating up my mom, she never acepted her son is an abuser).
When I went to college, they learned I was studying Architecture and out of the blue I was the favorite grandson, recieved financial help from them and I was naive enough to actually move in with my grandmother bc college was closer from her house. It was a living hell, everything was transactional and one-sided conditions. I left at 26 yes old, cut them out completely, now at 28 I'm doing my own thing and am at peace with myself.
Its confusing recognising safe people as the narcissist would ironically say your only safe with me even though they were abusive to help. Thanks jay you have clarified alot of confusion where the normal growing up is in awareness not normal and can save others from this mind knot.
I really had to distance myself from my family. There is so much toxicity going on there since I was a child, I thibk I am the scapegoat of the family. So that's why I always ask myself if I'm just overreacting or blame myself. I'm really alone right now because also my relationships were toxic and sometimes I'm asking myself if I will ever find some people that are just good to me. The worst thing is to stand up for yourself even if you are lonely then and have no one left... It is so hard to handle this feeling and not just going back to them to at least have someone. :(
Wow! This video has such powerful information in it and the wisdom that can be taken from the chaos, bringing one to control and order in one's OWN life is beautiful. Discretion is my favorite thing. I love that word. Being respected to a point where you can be private about yourself with the best people for you. Narcs feel like they own you and have no discretion when things don't go their way. They see the world so finitely that it's pretty for lack of a better word, pathetic, because it's that of a child that never ever grows up. They cannot honor someone's humanity when that human is not what they want them to be. Suddenly everyone they know could know about how not good enough you are to them, and you live with this fear that they will ruin your reputation. The truth is, if they do, the people that they are able to convince or want to be convinced by them, they're not worth it anyway. I'm 30 and still learning this, wrapping up a long healing process. I finally feel supreme joy for being alive without that abuser in my life. Also how you describe at 15:18 about hoovering is so absolutely on point. You cannot and will not go back to someone who hurts you again and again when you are able to be safe enough to choose that. You're then able to accept yourself and recover! Those who dys-regulate me cannot regulate me.
I purchased "Leaving Home" as recommended by Jay and it was spot on for me. Author: Celani
Just wanted to point out there are always a disproportionate number of "likes" vs. views on Jay's videos and that's because his content is amazing! He gets it. Incredible and I always watch 2-3 times, but that counts as 1 view... At the moment, 343 views and 61 likes. Seems to me the usual ratio is something like 10 views for 1 like. In this case, Jay would need nearly twice as many views (more than 600) for so many likes ;-) Your channel is much appreciated. Thank you.
Yes, I tend to watch his videos more than once because they are so helpful.
UA-cam is ran by the globalist psychopaths that control our evil system (which is why they hide information on narcissistic abuse because it is widespread and goes from top to bottom). And for this reason they jack with the viewer count and "likes" on any videos that tell the truth about things that the system suppresses. Now if you go some idiotic "twerking" or "tic toc" or "kitty" videos the likes will be in the THOUSANDS because they leave those mindless types of things alone. They like us to be as dumb and immoral as possible. Much easier for them to deceive and control us that way. These Cluster Bees are all offspring of Cain via the Serpent in the Book of Genesis..see Genesis 3:15 about the "two seedlines at enmity with one another"......we scapegoats are the Godly seedline. We are born with a conscience. The serpents are born with a reptilian mind (no or very little conscience, emotionally retarded, no empathy). They are the "Cain's" who murdered his empathic brother "Abel"....we are the "Abel's"......Also see Psalm 58:3-5
They have no moral compass. The MRI brain scans of psychopaths and narcissists are obvious to the layman. Frontal lobe is in darkness. The amygdala is shrunken and in darkness [appears like 'confidence' or 'no fear but it's inhuman psychopathy]. They 'think' in a superficial part of the upper back brain which is reptilian and not for the purpose of introspection type 'thinking'. They look like us on the outside only. They are a "different breed" altogether.
I watch these videos many times. I'm tired of all these other videos talking about narcissists. I've wasted years reflecting on the narcissists, negotiating with narcissists, arguing in my head on behalf of narcissists. If only they knew how much attention they have consumed. They would love it.
It is time to end that. Time to think about, and build up myself. I don't care what they do or say now... I just want to unload all that baggage that have dumped on me.
I can't over emphasize how right this assessment is and how much of this work I have had to do all by myself. I'm glad their are people out there to helps us and also become greater for a sense of self fulfilment. It's just phenomenal the language and work I did is so aligned to my own self therapy I have done. I'm so proud of myself to have figured this out and that it resonates with other people who have been on the receiving end. I pray and I'm glad more people are really being strong and speaking out.
Solo journey...of recovery .. I hear you. My salute.
We're all alone together. That's one of the things I learned from my yoga practice. Each person was struggling on their own mat with their own circumstances, and we were all doing that together. We weren't alone in our struggles. We were taking some action to care for ourselves. We all decided to show up. It's very powerful co-regulation for the nervous system.
yes once we really see it then we have to not get sucked back in due to hope....but instead catch that cycle and remind ourself not to have hope
You mentioned the hope … that is why therapy is important. You
It’s realize that you’re on your own
There is ALWAYS unfinished business in a relationship to a narc. If you share kids, they will complicate custody no end. If it is a spouse, they will constantly violate the separation/divorce agreement. If it is a parent they will change their will so that it will take years to get through the courts....Ahh....if only one COULD just walk away......
that is what's happening with me and i was the scapegoat as a kid so the divorce thing almost sends me back into scapegoat mode over and over. i feel like someone needs to wave a magic wand and make it so the narc cant damage me further, its like someone is cutting off my limbs one by one and i cant stop it.
As a narcissistic family. Escape goat this video was So refreshing to listen to. I went no contact at 25 now 27.
How did you do it it’s so fucking hard
@@juliandeville3806 Winchester started doing the research and knew what they were capable of. I save some money and I left.
"needing to hold on to that wish" yes so cruel its pathology they are sick nothing you could ever do erases the crimes they commit against you they only know how to commit crimes against you its excruciating but you have to stop enabling tell the truth and let them go its the only way you can survive and have healthy relationships and protect others
I had a huge friendship ending fight earlier in the week, and this really helped me with mentally considering the alternate reality to the character attack I got for voicing a boundary/reciprocity concern.
This resonates with me. Thank you, Jay
The grief turned into anger. Which is better to live with?
brilliant video and explanations. So helpful. Would have needed your insights about 30 years ago. Am 59 and only just let go of the whole narc family of origin
is it possible that parents are not actually narcissistic but as an unseen entity the narcissism actually exists as the family system functions? Hence the power of no contact dissipates the matrix. One thing I have noticed in these family dynamics and I'm not sure if true....those of that end of the narcissistic spectrum do not apologize.
You get it better than anyone. So thankful for your content.
Thank you for this! I didn't even know I couldn't be myself around her until my very intimidating mother went into a care facility. I realized suddenly why I then couldn't be around her and how bad my anxiety had been for decades. The guilt of not be able to visit her much was terrible until I understood all this. This video helps tremendously. It's really hard when the narcissistic, mean parent gets old.
Thank you for another video, this helps me a lot to understand and heal. ❤
Your comments have given me hope. Thankyou.
I wouldn't call it grief , more like relief ..... 👍
"Painful joy".
Thanks for such informative and useful videos on an under represented and stigmatised topic!
My name is Fatimah, if youre reading this please pray for me.
Thank you! Your thorough explanations are so helpful and healing!
very useful ans sobering. thanks! I just started therapy again. we'll soon have our second session. and I'm wishing I'll feel safe this time...
@pedrohenriquedeoliveira - I hope you're feeling safe with your new therapist.🙏🏽🙂
I keep having flashbacks now that I’ve gone no contact
Research CPTSD. I was just diagnosed. But somehow always knew 💔
I identify. Flashbacks cannot cease. It's progress to be able to say "Oh, there is the trance again"
I’ll never feel safe from my narcissistic sister. She’s younger than me and has coerced my 87 year old Mom to let my sister be the trustee of my share of the will. She has fed her so many lies about me. I feel like I’ll have a noose around
my neck for the rest of my life.
Even after death they control. I made a decision to walk away from an inheritance. The narcissist & minion dangle it like a carrot on a stick (to lead the mule). There's no "happy family" momentos, only things & possessions. Money doesn't fill the gaping holes, much prefer to be poor than beholden to them.
We can't have the full sadness until the outcome is certain..... Safe to cry. Past the point of no return. Masterclasses for sure thank you Jay.
I subscribed and glad I did. But it's hard to watch the videos because his analysis, examples, and insights - they are spot on. It shows his true expertise and knowledge of these family dynamics. I need healing so I watch them, it just brings up such accurate details, that it's difficult to process. None the less, I'm grateful for Jay, his selflessness in creating these videos, and wish I could afford/have 1 on 1's with a therapist and psychologist who is this specialized. I wish I heard this in my 20's and could have traveled the path toward healing and understanding long before much of life has already passed me by.
This happened to me and you’ve explained it! Long story short, I left my narcissistic family and friends and began meeting more safe people than ever before and I genuinely became happy. I just never connected it to leaving the narcissistic people. 😮 the original narcissists were outraged that I was just not available for their “shit” anymore and actually began a very long smear campaign that I’m still dealing with 40 years later! Dr. I’m just in awe of your understanding and explanation on these things that happen with narcissistic people. TYSM 😳🤔🫢
I really like and need your videos. I was a victim of Narcissistic parents who abused in every way possible. Now in the process of divorce to my Narc wife and receiving but verbal abuse, I am seeing that I am following my childhood patterns in my adult life. I'm so used to Narcs that I assumed everyone behaves just like them.....It is all I know!
I read the book Leaving Home, and that has been such a relief. Thank you for the recommendation. Good tears from the sad years. Please anymore books you recommend. Thank you for being out here.
super great video! thank you a lot!
Gosh Jay you remind me of you tuber Peace and Harmony. You both are making huge contribution to we who suffer the narcissistic abuse. Much gratitude from me in New Zealand
You, sir, found your calling in life. Thank you for all that you do. Please keep posting! And you should publish a book 🙏👏👏👏