How Star Trek Failed Religious Inclusion
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- Опубліковано 17 гру 2020
- It's finally time to put an end to the horrible year that was 2020. So let's send it out in style with the Jessie Gender Holiday Special starring Jessie Gender, Steve Shives, Ensign Cricket and over 30 special guests, including some you may recognize from a certain famous scifi franchise... But it wouldn't be a Jessie Gender video if we didn't talk about representation, so let's celebrate the holidays and the new year wit a discussion of how Star Trek has always viewed religion... with apathy.
✔✔✔IN MEMORY OF MY GRANDPARENTS PAUL EARL & HELEN WARING✔✔✔
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* C Bryan Jones - / cbryanjones
* Council of Geeks - / councilofgeeks
* Dan Gunther - / @kertratsp
* Erin Macdonald, PhD - / drerinmac
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* Grace Moore - / bonecrusherjenk
* Jarrah Hodge - / jarrahpenguin
* Jessica Lynn Verdi - t.co/7CawU296F2?amp=1
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* PunkRock Zoologist - / punkzoologist
* Rowan J Coleman - / battle5tarrjc
* Sara Mountjoy-Pepka - / smountjoypepka
* Starfleet Boy - / @starfleetsohail
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✔REFERENCES ✔
* Women at Warp podcast - www.womenatwarp.com/
* Star Trek and Sacred Ground - www.amazon.com/Star-Trek-Sacr...
* Inside Star Trek - memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/...
* Steve Shives Video on DS9 Religious Tolerance - • How Deep Space Nine Ac...
* Treksphere - treksphere.com/
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Somehow a cardboard cutout of Jadzia Dax wearing a Christmas hat legitimately scares me more than most modern horror films.
It's the chanting
krampus dax
Did ya know that Vulcan salute was taken directly from Nimoy's experience as a Jew? It's the sign that was used by the Kohanim (priests) back during the Temple era during what's called the Priestly Blessing. Despite lacking explicit jewish representation Nimoy was unabashedly jewish and put his experience into both the Vulcans in general and Spock in particular.
@Shoshana Ferguson big big same. Honestly its needed since Nimoy felt like Roddenberry didn't envision a future where jews as an ethnic group exist (primarily because he didn't think we were anything more than a religious group, which isn't a good reason). That fact is why Nimoy labeled Roddenberry as being antisemitic, which I think is fair of him to say.
The line between culture and religion is extremely blurry. And you can even be atheist and religiously jewish.
We could still have jewish Starfleet officers observing shabbat, think about the way they've harmed people before Yom Kippur. Heck I'd take a near throw away line about doing Daf Yomi.
The Klingons and Vulcans get to keep ritual but we dont even get to exist anymore?
Yes, we all know that. We're Star Trek fans. We're obsessed.
@@dbags317 I mean I only learned that recently so I figured someone else might not know it.
@@orifox1629 im busting chops. Feel free to lay that triv whenever you want.
@@orifox1629 Where did you ever hear this? I've heard people claim that Spock wss not religious because he was a logical Vulcan. And yet, we've seen him, and other Vulcans, engaging in what are obviously religious practices.
Happy Holidays everyone! Thanks for including me on this amazing project!
I felt second hand bad for you. 🤣😅
The "she's the actual character and not an actor joke" is too funny and you guys play it well.
I'm sorry to hear that you lost your grandparents. That must be difficult. Hope your coping.
As to religion on Star Trek, I have a slightly different view. As someone who has never been religious I find it curious that nearly all alien societies on Star Trek have some sort of religion (supernatural or otherwise). This seems to suggest that having a religion is a requirement for any society and not having a religion at all is not an option. Also, the DS9 premise that "the Bajorans only survived the Cardassian occupation because of their religion" suggests that there are no secular Bajorans. And it seems to buy into the myth that "there are no atheists in foxholes", which is not true in real life here on Earth.
I can see that religion can certainly be a force for good, binding people together and inspiring people to do good. But religion is not a requirement for that. Peoples' actions and ideas can be inspired and informed by many things, including religion and science. But in the end what you do with that inspiration is more important to me than where you got that inspiration from.
I do think most Bajorans are religious to some level. But some of them are secular. Dr. Mora, the scientist who raised Odo, doesn't wear an earring, which suggests that he is secular.
I mean Bajoran’s have the benefit of actual physical experiences involving their prophets. Even before the worm hole aliens are discovered they have orb experiences. Though not proof of godhood, it’s definitely evidence suggesting proof of existence and by the end of the 1st episode we definitely have proof of existence.
This reminds me of an episode of Babylon 5 called "The Parliament of Dreams" where they have a festival where all of the alien cultures showcase their dominant religion, and Earth's showcase is a line of literally dozens of different people each representing a different religion.
One of my favourte scenes in Babylon 5!
"Even I am cute... But in purple.... I am STUNING!" :)
It was kinda a silly scene. It came across as a evasion: right now by numbers christianity is hardly the biggest. Nevermind all the sects within it. But not putting christianity first would not fly on american TV.
So either they ignored the point of that festival on purpose (way to go host), or it was a case of 'superior humans' ("only WE value this diversity thing you backwards idiots"), which reeks of white saviour colonialism.
@@user-zh4vo1kw1z I see where you are coming from but there was a good intention behind.
@@slashandbones13 I understand the intent, but intent alone shouldn't excuse poor execution. That's why I mentioned white saviour colonialism: That is well intended. Missionary work is well intended. Proselitising is well intended.
If anything, it makes evaluating unintended message or result all the more important: it not only shows where you fail in your communication, it can also shine a light on the shadows you missed within yourself
"Holy" crap. You got that Faith of the Heart lyric right finally.
I always find it odd how there's people who watch Star Trek who criticize it for being "woke". As if they even know what the word means. But when I see people being bigoted and they're Star Trek fans, I'm like...how is that even possible?
The opposite of woke is being asleep.
@@moonled Exactly.
There are peopl liking gurry bloody laggan and are very very conservattive, the world is weird.
@@moonled a shleep?
I'm sorry for your loss, Jessie. Merry Christmas. Hug
I wonder if there’s a category error here. Are we confusing people with religion? Isn’t that a mistake we make all the time? Religions are odd creatures: they come with a set of beliefs and behavioral mandates that people are expected to adopt whole cloth. But people don’t always do that. People accept some of those doctrines but not others. As such, it can be easy to commit a No True Scotsman when assuming that a person who identifies as an adherent to a religion actually believes or follows the tenets of that religion.
In addition, many people DO make the mistake of intertwining their religion with their personal identity. It is one of the ways that religions gird themselves against criticism. It can therefore be difficult to criticize a perceived problem with a religious tenet or doctrine without at least appearing to be critical of the people who adhere to those tenets/doctrines.
I’m not sure I’m being clear, but what I’m saying is that perhaps Star Trek gets it right when it refuses to ackowledge religions over people. People are not religions and should not be confused with such.
Just a thought. I personally am very critical of religions but try very hard not to confuse them with the people who follow them.
Mike Thompson I’m glad to see someone like you commenting on this video. While I try my best not to judge people for their religions, I personally agree with the idea that having a future where everyone gives up religion is a good one. However, I do still believe that it is possible for Religious people to have ethical interpretations of their religion’s doctrine, and am glad to see them do so, as they are better people for it.
It's not that the belief in a god is good or bad in star trek but the belief in any idea that is shown to be inconsistent with the scientific method is shown through allegory to be antithetical to human advancement. It may be by bias but I agree with this 100%.
This as always been my take on why religion is missing from Star Trek... it's utopian. They aren't big on capitalism either.
@@bretthansen3739 No one should want a utopia. Life revolves and evolves around the opposite. Utopa= hive mind.
Thank you very much for making this video. There are many religious people who enjoy Star Trek, myself included. And for all the accusations that religion causes division, shouldn't that make it all the more important to show not only tolerance of the faithful, but also the faithful showing tolerance and goodwill to their fellow creation? God bless you with peace and long life.
A fundamental misunderstanding of religion and perhaps more importantly religious people has always been a huge blindspot in science fiction, and honestly a blindspot for science fiction fans (myself included). It's great to see a video from you about this.
Thank you so. much. For this video. I always felt like there was no way to reconcile my positive experiences with Christianity with my current Queer atheist identity. My mother’s father was helped out of abusive alcoholism by a Christian community and an Alcoholics Anonymous group. Now my mom’s side of the family is one of the most loving families I’ve ever met. I can honestly say that I probably know what love is in the first place because of them, yet it has been hard for me to justify bringing that with me as I grow because of my love of science and Star Trek, which tends to talk negatively about religion and spirituality. This video helped give me hope that I don’t have to hide that part of me. Thank you so much for publicly loving my younger, religious, Trekky self, so that I can also love them 💖
I think this unfortunately comes from a very particular western view of Religion. That there have to be Miracles that cannot be explained. That God has to be a "Magician" rather than working through a logical rational universe. I don't believe for example Evolution invalidates a higher power working through things and if I found out that aliens were even above that it wouldn't invalidate the premise. While there definately are episodes which do have some nasty thing to say about religion(I'm looking at you "who watches the watchers" "Who Mourns for Adonis" Any Q episode.) Having a secular explanation for a miracle does not invalidate it. A prophesy claiming a messianic figure will return and him being cloned does not intrinsically invalidate the prophesy it only does so if you buy into ONE very narrow view of the divine and religion.
This is of course before getting into the clear parallels between Vulcan, Klingon and even Ferengi Religion with sects of hindu, Buddhism, philosophical Daoism. Nog's Faith in the Great Material Continuum is almost Daoist in explanation even when he has turned his back on a world of profit he sees this cosmic force that he seeks in his personal life to achieve oneness with it. And even if that faith is just that his actions in the here and now follow some greater theoreically secular pattern that doesn't invalidate his faith. Religion does not need a cavalcade of supernatural and unexplained phenomenon.
What "nasty things" do these episodes say about religion?
@@Reggie1408 Gods are intrinsically false.
One of the ways Star Trek achieved utopia was by discarding religions (Terran ones anyway). That was part of Roddenberry's vision. We can disagree with this concept but asking Star Trek to include it is like asking to have x-wing fighters or Darth Vader included.
Not necessarily. Roddenberry's ideas don't need to be accepted just because he was the showrunner. It has been canon so far but there's no reason it couldn't be retconned or added in later somehow. Religion on its own isn't a bad thing, ignoring science or being bigoted are but religion doesn't have to include those elements.
This was a joy to watch. I joined the Star Trek community this January, and with both the pandemic and my mum passing away due to cancer, to say the show has helped me cope during 2020 would be putting it lightly! I fell in love with the show's core message of hope and diversity, even if it has struggled with displaying that at times. DS9 in particular has become my second favorite show of all time due to how it tackles the Star Trek world, its themes, and its amazing cast of characters. Part of the joy has also been Discovery-ing the brilliant people on Twitter and UA-cam, those who really understand and echo the meaning and message of the show. So thank you Jessie for all you do, and all the content creators who popped up! (Yes, even you Ketwolski...) Here is to a better 2021 for us all! Remember to check under your bed for Jadzia Dax everyone! Qapla'! ^_^
So sorry about your mum. Stay safe, stay strong and joy & peace in the New Year! 💜
Thank you for presenting me so much of the Trek fandom and creators! I've only started following you and a few others recently this year, so I love when I get good new people to follow
I love everything about this. I really needed this today. I love your humor. Thank you.
hey hey! This is excellent!
Merry Everything, Jesse! Have a great day! ❤🎄☃️🎅🤶🎁
I am only 4:50 into this vid and I am just blown away by everything that is happening. Holy crap this is amazing. Looking forward to the rest!
Another amazing video!! I just finished and absolutely loved it. Very insightful and funny, with lots of great Trek people. I love how you included different viewpoints, while remaining inclusive. The inclusiveness is what I love most about your videos in general.
So much editing - you are spoiling us
✨💗✨ thank you so much
Was an honour to be a part of the video. Thank you for having me.
It was really interesting too, I can’t say I agree with your angle entirely but you always present stuff in a way that is engaging and thought provoking.
But ....what’s with Racey not going to Starbucks because he believes in Christmas?! Eggnog lattes signal the BEGINNING of Christmas! 😀 they are like “a warm Christmas hug”, as my wife likes to say. 😁 😜
❤️🧡💛💚💙💜 This was fantastic. Absolutely loved it!
one thing that i'm critical of star trek isn't really the lack of religion itself, but like *which* religious traditions or cultural traditions are shown on screen. for a show that prides itself on inclusion, why are humans shown to have conformed so everyone celebrate the same things, such as christmas? why isn't anyone idk, celebrating eid? moon festival? chanukah? even if it's just one character doing it, it would show that humanity is still culturally diverse and not just everyone abandoned their own traditions for american christmas in the future.
what a monumental production! bravo!
"Star trek the finale frontier the pinnacle of all star trek films" YES YOU ARE RIGHT AND YOU SHOULD SAY IT
This video is really enjoyable, hilarious and well argued at the same time. My first time on this channel, I look forward to more!
Welcome to the community!
Fantastic way to end the video :-) Almost makes up for the song... -.-
Poor Ketwolski. One day he'll get the recognition he deserves.
And so awesome having Mary Chieffo on it!
An Abundance of Cameos, by John Green - written and edited by Jessie Gender XD
Oh, Kahless, I don't even have time to watch the Jesse Gender videos, now I've fallen down a Trek Tube Shore Leave size rabbit hole.
Well, there are worse ways to die...also, Koala...
And... 37:27. What a fraking masterpiece. The cricket bleeping, the hand make-out session, and also the wonderful thesis and excellent points that made this science loving agnostic/atheist tear up! Oh, and the song at the end. I love and hate you so much right now. Happy holidays you wonderful person. 💜🖤💚 *edited for spelling*
And now I'm crying. Great episode and a lovely closing.
This might just be my favourite star trek video ever
Thank you for having me, even briefly haha
I want to say up front, so sorry for your loss. It's been a tough year for everyone, but most acutely for those that have lost loved ones. Loved the video! I fully agree that if any Earth religions are going to be represented they should be trying to represent as many as possible. What I find strangely absent is the discussion of how these various religions reacted to the realisation that other sentient life exists and how that interfaces with their religion. Taking Christianity as an example, is there a Jesus for each species or is salvation reserved for humans only? etc. Love your work as always :)
Got so meta that my brain started leaking out of my ears...
... which is a good thing!
Amazing job, all! Bravo!
This genuinely made my day, thank you for being you :)
What an amazing video. The amount of work to go into editing, writing and creating something like this is simply astounding. You knocked it out of the park. Thank you so much for letting me be apart of something so special and so beautiful to something we in the Trek community hold so dear.
Thank you so very much for this. Respect.
Appreciate this!
Pausing to say I'm at 4:23 and right after you said "After an episode of my favorite show!" and switched the camera angle, an ad came on and it was a view of the earth from orbit. Legit took me a second to realize it was an ad. 🤣🤣
The Jadzia cardboard cutout haunts all of us
If she shows up at my place, I'm moving.
A fun watch. Thanks for taking the time to do this. I am surprised that my all time fave TNG episode "Who Watches the Watchers" did not get a mention considering the topic...🤷♂️
P.s. leave Ketwolski alone...😘🖖💖
Oh. My. God. Discovering this channel was like finding a gold nugget.
The WW1984 was the video that brought me here, but let me tell you, it's the star trek stuff that's gonna make me stick around and probably fall in love. I've already subscribed. I'm dancing in my seat.
Qapla!!
Edit: i never understood why earth's many religions was canon, but every alien race only ever had the one, and rarely did any of their own disagree with it. Bugged me. Lol
best faith of the heart cover ever! Thanks for that
I love that you have your own personal Void to stare into and feed
Looking forward to this one will try to be awake, even though cold damp land is twelve hours out of sinc
This was so fun! I loved Council of Geeks making out with the cricket. Have a good holiday!
YO! This was amazing! Thanks Jessie and everyone else! Special shoutout to @NaterTot !!
Cool! Looking forward to watching this, Jessie! ( I am totally blown away from the finale of The Mandalorian! :-D)
Damn! This was such a great video!! I loved it
Just wanted to say that I really enjoyed the video. Lots of great points. :)
This was so good Jessie!!!
I would love to see and hear more from Ensign Cricket. :)
GREAT video, especially everything in the Santa part!!!!!
SURROUNDING You (Jesse) and your Family in LOVE and LIGHT ❤
Fantastic video, this collaboration was really heartwarming. And the ensign cricket episodes are always great.
Concerning the central topic, I am fully on board with your analysis. Though I would have liked a little more attention to how religion actually does hinder science and progress. So, this somewhat adversarial attitude towards it in Star Trek and Science Fiction in general doesn't come out of nowhere.
This was beautiful Jesse. Thanks so much. I have some religious trauma but it's still something important to me. The faith, not the religion part of it. I don't think science and religion have to conflict (I see science asking how and religion why).
One star trek Podcaster that I've also been enjoying recently is "all the Asians on star trek"
I don’t agree with everything you have to say in all your videos but I genuinely loved this video, so creative and fun! Keep up the good work I look forward to watching more!
There's a lot to say with this video, but I'll bring up something I haven't seen in my quick skim of the comments. The delivery and especially the editing of the comedy is fantastic. I've seen funny actors deliver hilarious lines that end up falling to the way side due to bad or sloopy editing, but the pacing here is well executed! Which is a lot harder when every character is filmed seperately. Well done Jessie, great video, and happy holidays to you too
The Jadzia cutout is a good way to maintain the tradition of UA-cam personalities having lives where weird and possibly supernatural shit happens to them
This was one of the best hours I've had in a long, long time. Thank you so much, Jessie. An unbelievable piece of work.
Love these! Wasn't expecting a musical number. Lol. I think your kitty wants to be featured more! 😉
Finally got around to watching this and it was great!
I subscribed to all the UA-cam channels and liked your Facebook page. Thank you again! That was great!
Jesse Gender, tried to finish this but....my personal relationship with Star Trek and the negative way in which religion has effected every aspect of my life (being a lifelong secular humanist) makes this video impossible for me to watch.
Totally understandable
Yeah, I'm at around 13:00 right now and starting to have the same trouble. Referring to humanism as taking things away from religion and just leaving the "good" parts is already pretty offensive to humanists. I'd call religion taking humanism and adding bigotry and ghosts (Of course, I grew up in a religious household that was less than ideal, so I am quite biased). I think I'm going to have to come back to this one when my parent's last attempt at spiritually toughening me up is less fresh.
Humanist here (seminary dropout, actually). I think part of what made this hard to watch was that I began to see religion as a divisive force. To me Star Trek actually helped me explore humanism as a way to exist in a paradigm without religion when I left my Mennonite community. Thank you, for challenging me on this, but at this point in my intellectual journey, I'm having a hard time seeing religions as something that can foster an inclusive spirit in humanity.
I've avoided this video until now because of my trauma from religion and leaving religion. It took me 5 years to rewatch DS9 because I was afraid of the feelings it might dredge up. Now I'm a bit afraid to keep watching... Maybe I'll revisit after the work day is over. Lol
A podcaster I once listened to declared that Data could not be a man (as per "Measure of a Man") because he did not have a soul. That brought all discussion to a halt. Tends to happen often.
I’m excited for this one
Ah Ensign Cricket, he's so profound and well spoken.
that literal santa cameo was very Xena Warrior Princess lvl camp.... and i am here for it!!!!! (yaaaaasssssss)
why the HELL is this only 6,000 views?! c'mon guys, get to sharing! this is unacceptable!
LOVING this!!!!❤❤❤
An instant holiday classic, that makes some really good points. The big question, though, can I now slip Faith of the Heart into my hoilday playlist?
Ensign Cricket has a special place in my heart 💓
I'm gonna have to finish this after work. Lunch break ain't long enuff.
While I have to congratulate you on an amusing, well made and interesting video, I must point out that, from a secular perspective, religion is just a set of narratives about an omnipotent creator being which we are told to believe in. People derive a form of social authority from those narratives, invoking the creator being(s) to tell others what to do. Star Trek was all about outgrowing that form of control, questioning authority etc.
How does Santa get presents to all of the good little children on Bajor?
Industrial transporters from a nearby space station?
This was the first Christmas special I've watched this year and I truly enjoyed it. Now on to Lindasey Stirling's then my usual fare, My So-Called Life "So-Called Angels", Man From UNCLE "Jingle Bells Affair", The (Britsh) Avengers "Too Many Christmas Trees", Twilight Zone "Night of the Meek+, Lone Ranger "Christmas Story", and that iconic Christmas movie ... "Die Hard". Live Long and Prosper!
Almost left off Xena "A Solstice Carol"
This vid is amazing holy cow! You deserve so many more views, subs, etc. Have a wonderful holiday/winter!
Thank you so much!
This is exactly what we all needed after what this year has been. I’ve not long finished it and am already starting viewing number two. I think I was only a minute or so in before I hit the ol’ like button, but homicidal Jadzia will certainly make you do that. The dedications are also very poignant and touching. I suppose I’m especially sensitive to those things today as it’s two years since my own grandads funeral, so I’ve spent the day thinking about him. I understand the hurt that comes with losing close family like that, and even two years on you still miss them, but the memories that you hold are invaluable and will always be with you. As will they, so long as you remember them. Sorry to waffle on. Loved the video, love the channel and I can’t wait for what 2021 has in store. You deserve all of the success and much more,
Amazing Jessie. Amazing.
This was delightful.
Well done 👏
Great video
I WILL be sacrificing some tribbles this Christmas!
Also, great video! I really enjoyed it!
Shave them then toss em in an instant pot for ten minutes. Delicious!
THIS IS AMAZING!!!
This is literally 10/10!
Yay more ensign cricket!
Thank you so much for all of this Jesse. I laughed so hard and then got choked up to see so many Trek content creators who have helped keep me sane in this craptastic year. Well done. LLAP.
Oh my! Ensign cricket got some raunchy action! XD
Didn't catch this earlier.
I truly enjoyed this video.
You have a gift to bring people together. This is not first time, so we can say this is real gift.
Thanks and happy holidays!
I upped my Patreon because of this video.
Thank you 🙏 ❤️❤️❤️❤️
Brilliant!
A real world example of religion pushing humanity forward: in the 1950s there was a Canadian politician named Tommy Douglas who was part of the NDP/CCF, which was a straight-up socialist party at the time (they lean social democrat/neo-liberal today). As the Premier of Saskatchewan, Tommy Douglas brought in medicare, which was later turned into a national program by the Liberals/NDP. He's considered to be the "Father of Medicare." Canada wouldn't have universal health care without Tommy Douglas and people like him.
Tommy Douglas was also an ordained Baptist minister and a lot of early CCF/NDP members and politicians were Christians who used their Christian beliefs to work toward solving social problems. The first leader of the CCF/NDP was J.S. Woodsworth, who was a Methodist minister.
Oooh I can't wait! Hope anything Discovery or Picard is at a place I can skip though. I'm still not current on them.
There is a small 4 min section that does spoil a single Season 2 episode of Disco, but it's easily skippable.
@@JessieGender1 thanks for letting me know!
Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww!!!! This was so awesome!!
Jesse's sleeves on her top at the end match my pjs bottoms and my thermal socks.
This was good fun!
BEST
SPECIAL
EVER!