When Odo yells into Quark's bar: "Ladies, Gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures" my heart went !!! a little bit. I have also heard a rumor that Kira and Jadzia's actors wanted them to be together, but were told no, so they played them in a way that showed chemistry even though they knew they'd never get to follow through. The first time I watched the series I was really hoping they'd get together because to me, they are clearly attracted to one another.
They were totally doing it in that Lancelot holoprogram. You don’t wear clothes that big unless you’re planning on tearing them off Perhaps I’ve said too much
The Jadzia kiss was such a big deal to me, it was the first female kiss I think I'd ever seen, it was a light ball moment like" holy shit I can do that?"
Loved the video! Also, there's an episode of DS9 where a female Ferengi cross-dresses as a male Ferengi. And Dax realizes the fact that the Ferengi loves Quark. Then Dax is later surprised to find out that she is female. So, she assumed the Ferengi was gay, and it wasn't anything out of the norm. It's a really subtle moment so it doesn't do much for queer representation, but those small subtle bits are very welcomed! :) Also, McCoy called the Tribbles bisexual and that fills me up with so much fuzzy joy lol
There is also Odo's race of changelings. While they are played by both male and female actors, this is an entire species that can literally be anything.
I definitely read Jadzia as pan when I rewatched the series recently. That girl flirts with everyone, and it is beautiful. Also, I kinda liked that the women got to be openly sexual in the series without being condemned for it, felt nice to see.
In the beginning of Star Trek nemesis Data grabs everyone’s attention at the wedding by saying “lady’s and gentlemen, and transgendered species” so....
Odo does something similar in If Wishes Were Horses saying, "Ladies and gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures..." when telling a group about what's going on. It still definitely has that vibe of "aliens can have different genders but not humans" like I get with a lot of the Trill stories, and using "androgynous creatures," to tell stories, rather than what we know with humans, or more known aliens. I do think that making Spock have a learning disability/neurodivergency in Discovery makes a lot of sense and helps us connect with that, but gender really isn't explored much, even in Discovery.
I like the way that "Rejoined" was done. It managed to address the audience on a present day issue, within a world in which the actual subject matter should no longer be an issue. If we can't get past issues like queerphobia by the 23rd, or at lest the 24th century, then we are hopeless as a species.
I was forbidden to watch Star Trek TNG as a kid due to growing up in an evangelical Christian family. My mom took one look at Worf and declared, "you're not watching DEMONS in this house!" I decided not to upset her, so I watched it on the sly whenever I could find it when she wasn't around. I don't think my folks meant to raise me to hate anyone, but I definitely think I'd be a bit of a bigot if not for TNG showing me Roddenberry's vision.
Very well thought out and put together, Jessie! I remember watching “The Outcast” with my mom and knowing exactly what they were trying to convey. It was reassuring knowing my mom had empathy for the androgynous character, Soren, even though she didn’t see the alagory for LGBTQ people. :) well done!
Great video! Like all members of the lgbt community, I have become an expert at recognizing subtext, and unfortunately, for years that's all we had in Trek. But boy did we make good use of it! Trek fandom invented "slash", which is now common in every modern fandom. Slash and long life!
I think Voyager final episode "Endgame", would have been much better, if instead of dating Chakotay, Seven and Janeway should have started a relationship. Nothing against him (he actually got somewhat sidelined after S3) but they really had chemistry. And would have made Sevens future death and Janeways decisions so much more inpactfull.
OK but the greatest failing of Star Trek was not ever making Spock/Kirk Canon. Which is completely understandable given the times and everything, but I'm still kinda sad about that. In every incarnation of Star Trek they have great chemistry and are very Shipp able.
Kirk could be the last person on Earth to be homosexual. His character was a manly man and very masculine. He was kinda James Bond of Star Trek Tos, ladies man.
@@scorpionkobra Manly man are also gay. Nothing as manly as being completely at ease with one's manhood AND sexuality. Honestly, nothing screams insecurity as a man being terrified of another men.....
@@scorpionkobra it's only illogical if you have a narrowminded, world-fearing point of view. Honestly, to some "men" everything is "unmanly" unless it follows their own limited point of view. Pathetic.
The ending of the episode "The Outcast" had, what I always felt, the harshest and hard hitting endings of any Star Trek episode. I remember actually feeling almost sick at what Soren's people did to them at the end. Which was essentially a lobotomy/brainwashing them back to being what they considered "acceptable". Just the impact of that hit a bit harder than when Tasha is killed or when Jadzia dies. I just remember thinking that Riker would beam Soren up and have the doctor undo whatever the J'rell had done. The fact it was just left like that was just so bloody harsh. Like, "oh, you're not following the rules, so time to fiddle your brain up a bit, and the rest of y'all can just deal with it". It was the fact that it wasn't just a lost love episode, but a losing your identity because of societies expectations that really just turned my stomach a bit. One of the most tragic episodes in the entirety of Star Trek in my opinion. Anyhow, another great video. Peace and long life.
Melinda Culea was part of a non binary race as Soren. She expressed her gender preference, but was said t be a deviant!😕 Don’t you think we all have a right to choose our gender?
I think Lal deserves special mention for being the first explicitly trans character in the franchise even if the episode never highlighted her as such. Similar to Outcast, they used agender to female as opposed to transitioning from one of the binary genders to another (I hope I’m articulating that correctly), but nonetheless, her father very progressively allowed her to choose her gender identity and she explicitly underwent her transition onscreen, even if yes she is an android and the show never specifically highlights queer issues while also showcasing an extremely progressive and open view of gender identity, and could be argued as one of the earliest examples of normalization of such things. Again, indirect in comparison to showing a human character transition from male to female or vice versa, but nonetheless I still consider Lal to be Trek’s first trans character and that wonderful episode deserves so much credit. It also made me cry. Lal is a treasure. Also every Bridge crew character in TOS was bisexual, fight me. And Tasha is gay. she’s so gay sorry Castillo fans. It’s just true
veggieowlgirl haha indeed it tis, that’s one of my fav pieces of geek trivia to trot out. But generally, more people remember and use live long and prosper, so that’s what I typically use as my sign off.
I discovered fanfiction a few years ago and I never want to surface back from that rabbit hole. For many reasons but one of them is that I can find stories where the characters gender is unimportant and doesn't play a role. Let me explain. Most stories have women behave in a certain way, do certain things, even we expect certain behaviours from male and female. When the story is between two persons of the same gender, this traditional way of telling a story flies out the window. It becomes a story about two equals coming together. It helps us understand and see that gender is not an all defining thing. It also normalises that you can feel atracted to what you feel atracted to. Despite the many issues with fanfiction (and there are) I am hopeful that it will help create more enlightened future generations.
Such a awesome video with great research and quotes! Btw Takei has recently talked about discussions between him and Gene about adding gay themes during the orginal series but Roddenberry knew he was already pushing the envelope in so many ways and that if he tried to do it he could be shut down.
Let's be honest: it wasn't until Will and Grace, and later Buffy The Vampire Slayer that TV shows began to put LGBT people as main characters. Will and Grace broke ground using a comedic setting (though rarely showed a same-sex couple kissing), and Buffy did it in a serious setting with Willow and Tara.
@2manynegativewaves Possibly true. I've pretty much only seen British sitcoms from that era, and while there were a lot of camp characters, I don't remember any that were explicitly LGBT.
from what i've read, alexander siddig and andrew robinson tried to play bashir and garak as though they were a couple, but executives vetoed and gave them less screentime together
I always saw O'Bashir as a side couple. Miles would hang out with Julian WAY too often in spandex when Keiko wasn't around. I picked up on Garak's clues, but didn't realize in first run that Barak were bts canon. D'oh!
I'm a straight white cisgender male and I'm proud to be one, but I appreciate your channel absolutely! I was just introduced to your Channel today and subscribed after the first video I saw and this videos either the 3rd or 4th video I saw before finally commenting. I would like to point out that admittedly I felt awkward watching your channel for the first time but that's just because I'm not used to seeing someone who is transgender. Obviously someone who is transgender is much less common than someone who is cisgender, but as I watched your video and listen to your points I really like what you got to say. I'm not going to pretend that I never felt awkward about transgender people because that's just trying to cover things up. I have felt awkward about them before and it's possible I might still I feel awkward about them now or later, but I still try to do my best to only judge somebody based on their character and personality. You make some pretty damn good videos and it's surprising that your channel has been around as long as it has with only three thousand subscribers. My channel has been around a year less than yours with only 1.3 thousand subscribers, it just goes to show how tough is to gain a good footing on UA-cam. Thank you for your videos and thank you for your channel and thank you for your well done editing and well done narrating and everything you do! Awesome Channel and I think from what I can tell you are probably a pretty awesome person!
Did TOS not touch on queer themes at all? What about the episode Metamorphosis? The episode was about Kirk and co. coming upon Zefram Cochrane, whose life was being sustained by an alien entity known as the Companion. When he discovers that the Companion loves him, he is revolted. But, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy have no issue with it at all. Cochrane finally accepts and returns the Companion's love when the Companion possesses the body of the dying Commissioner Hedford. I may have read elsewhere that the episode was meant to address interracial relationships, but as I see it, it really addresses any kind of "different" relationship. It's true that the episode does not come right out and blatantly endorse those relationships, as the episode's "happy ending" came only when Cochrane could accept the Companion in a human body, rather than her true form. Maybe, given the times, the network, or the producers, couldn't allow that. But it did seem clear that the author's point-of-view, reflected in our heroes, was that "different" relationships were acceptable.
I think about that episode a lot, because they make it straight by making the cloud female but also the TOS crew knew what was up before then even knew THE CLOUD gender and they thought the guy was a huge bigot for treating the cloud's love as something disgusting.
7:43 Of course Jadzia is Bi-Sexual! 350+ years of memories from Male and Female hosts, She's ready to fall in love with anyone, and She don't discriminate! You forgot to comment on that Voyager episode (don't remember title) where there was that race that had a third gender, was that a voyager episode? I don't know, I've been awake too long.
Raiden Digital haha fair, I did miss that one. It’s actually an enterprise episode. It’s not really about gender though, but more of a general discrimination metaphor. It doesn’t really deal with transgender or gender issues. But I should have at least gave it a specific callout
Jadzia even dated a guy with a transparent skull. With her "age" and experience, I don't think externals like skull opacity, gender, etc even occurred to her. If you were interesting and, more importantly, fun, she was willing to give most people at least a date or two. (I really hope she drew the line at Medusans!)
Great video! I remember watching that ds9 episode w/ Jadzia and Lenara when I was a kid and I thought about it for weeks. In hindsight it was probably the first hint I wasn't straight lol. Anyway I truly think Rick Berman was the main problem here, I've heard rumours over the years on various forums that garak/bashir was supposed to be the first gay pairing on star trek (adding to that Andrew Robinson's comments about portraying Garak as pansexual and his novel A stitch in time) but Berman backpedalled. Which does surprise me, he just seems like all around terrible guy. Terry Farrell left before the last season because she asked to be in fewer episodes and was denied, Colm Meaney requested the same so he could pursue other projects while also being on ds9 and he did! Also the way Berman treated her was abhorrent.
In the episode that I can't remember the name, but it was the TOS episode that introduced the idea that Zephryn Cochran invented warp drive, and there's a weird energy being in love with him, and he's not cool with that, and Kirk and Spock are like "Chill out, bro", and Spock calls him "colloquial", it was kind of a subtle nod to queer issues.
I watched that episode a couple days ago, it's called Metamorphosis and it's in season 2, and another thing I noticed was that when Kirk described what romantic love was he mentioned things like risking his life and making sacrifices for who he loves, which one, isn't purely limited to romantic love, and two, describes Kirk's relationship with Spock
@@natania7738 I've heard rumors that Gene Roddenberry was for real wanting to make Kirk and Spock a thing. Not sure if I believe them, Gene himself said he had the gay issue wrong and didn't get enlightened I think until after TOS. But George Takei was out to the cast other than Shatner and Gene was good with it
Fanfiction no doubt becoming very common for conservatives because of this however that in itself could eventually lead to the big film companies stepping in to regulate what can exist in fanon and what can't.
Star trek disovery made me love Trek. The addition of a gay couple (Stamets + Culber) and 2 trans characters (Gray and Adira) Not to mention those two loving each other so deeply made me love this franchise so much, as well as the very rich history behind the franchise itself. It also introduced me to actors Blu Del Barrio and Ian Alexander, and they’re both friends IRL
I don't like how Star Trek TNG's two first transgender characters were erased through conversion therapy or death, but aside from that it did rather well
I have to say this video was very indepth and truly moving. It touched on all the right points and brought awareness to a sad and troubled history that star trek has had regarding the lack of representation of the lgbtq community. I wish more could have been done with Trek, given an ounce of time a nugget of worth but this video has shed light on so many things. It might be worth noting that in season 2 of discovery we meet another lgbtq character though won't spoil that for those who haven't seen it, and they have a recurring role. Also for star trek online players who play the discovery route turns out you find out that Laudry is a lesbian, I can't recall if they ever brought up her history regarding romantics but if you play through that storyline it sheds some hope and the fact that is in a video game of star trek kind of goes a long way. There is even an andorian you meet who has two wives and one husband. Star Trek however still has a long way to go and with no new plans for star trek in film, because of Anton's death and the two Chris actors dropping out due to money, and Tarentino likely opting out of his final film being an R rated one...we have Discovery and Picard for now. Anyway in my long ramble what you are doing here is great and keep up the great work.
@@Gamerkat10 There's one comment in Generations where he emphasizes the lack of women would have made travel by boat less interesting, but that comment aside, yeah, I'd consider him pansexual, or possibly bisexual with a preference for women. I still would love to see another series that takes place closer in time to when TNG/DS9/VOY happen and maybe revisit the idea of that race of androgynous people. I've also seen people do fan art that Picard is demisexual, which I totally see. He wasn't really motivated by looks or first impressions, but rather shared interests and a non-physical connection.
I was at a Trek convention in about 1994*, and Branon and Braga were speakers. They were asked why there are almost no women of color on the show and they stammered and didn't answer and finally came up with something about no women of color coming into the casting calls. Pathetic. *Philadelphia, the Valley Forge Convention Center, other speaker was Gates
You definitely can't knock the original star trek who had viewership that even thought a man and a women sleeping in the same bed on tv was bad. Star Trek has constantly knocked on the door of inclusion for diversity which paved the way for it to speak freely like it does today.
It seems like TOS was more of a maverick out of the gate than the rest of the franchise. I wonder if maybe as a new series, it had more freedom to fail. It's like the subsequent series and movies had a legacy, fans they could piss off, and so they were afraid to push the envelope more than TOS was. I remember when Next Gen came out and all the discussion about whether or not it would be good enough to live up to TOS. I think it took a while for the franchise to get over that whole conversation and doubt.
I forget the name of the episode, but one I watched over and over was the one where Erzi does the whole murder investigation thing... Looking back, I really identified with Ezri as a character b/c of her like anxiety and not really being quite sure of herself. At the time, being hyper self-closeted and not understanding my transgender identity (the very concept at the time was beyond unthinkable to me at the time), I interpreted this as a sort of crush, but looking back now I think it wasn't so much of that. I think I just really related to the character. Plus, with that episode in particular, Ezri deals with some darker emotions and impulses (almost stabbing somebody in Quark's), and all though I don't like to dwell or talk about them, is definitely something I have in me as well. I don't think I'd ever act on them, but those kinds of thoughts do pop in my head from time to time. Though I have to say perhaps my biggest... coping mechanism...? I guess is the word for it, back in the day was playing WoW as female characters. At the time, I remember wondering why whenever I tried to play as a male character, it just didn't work. Something felt off. Usually, I'd get the character to around lvl 10 or so, and then end up deleting them. I remember also eventually going by my characters pronouns, though I didn't understand why at the time. I mean, it wasn't like I was on a roleplaying server or anything. I could go on, but I think my stream of consciousness here has gone on long enough. o_o'
Another example from the novels...in the second of the "Legacies" books, there's a trans character. She's the chief of security at a facility where an important peace negotiation is to take place, and pretty cool. Of course in text you have to kind of clunkily just SAY it instead of letting the audience infer (or NOT) through subtleties of voice and mannerism, but still...nice to see that inclusion in a book that takes place during Kirk's time. (edited because of my stupid wordiness, lol)
In these episodes mentioned, i am of the opinion that “selling out” is not an apt description. I remember watching them in a conservative Christian environment, and they were a delightful “Trojan horse”, as it were, for me to open my mind-particularly the Trill episode in TNG with Dr Crusher and the romance between the androgynous character and Riker. If the episodes had been more brazen, I would not have had the opportunity to expose myself to another perspective. These were massively important seeds to be planted in my mind-i would be lost without the LGBTQ themes in Star Trek.
Yes! Exactly. I think themes like this are AS important as the explicit representation. It's a great way to introduce the idea to cishet audiences without upsetting them to the point they turn their brains off. It can get them thinking about it! And that's what I've always loved about Star Trek, it gets you to stop and think for yourself! It's a shame they were held back from what they really wanted to do, though.
That's what I love about Star Trek. They don't blatantly say what they want, they use story and subtext so it doesn't feel so preachy sometimes. What comes to mind is Rejoined, where Dax is reunited with someone from her past. They didn't mention at all that it was wrong for two women to be involved, it was wrong because of the Trill taboo for symbionts to be reunited in love. We all knew what the message really was.
Just found your videos here, and I love them! I've seen you on "The Advocate" before but had no idea you were a Trekkie, and this is amazing - I always love discovering progressive Trekkie UA-camrs. You're motivating me to finish up DIS so I can watch your reviews, ooh. If only my free trial hadn't run out partway into S2! Anyways, for this video specifically! LOVE your analysis, though I can't help but wish you'd mentioned some of the other major slash ships in the fandom, especially across other series. Of course Kirk/Spock is the most popular haha, so I get that. Have you seen the new Deep Space Nine documentary, "What We Left Behind"? The popular fan ship of Elim Garak and Julian Bashir is brought up, particularly in how actor Andy Robinson wanted to portray it. Ira Steven Behr also makes an assessment like yours, that while "Rejoined" was good, they should have done better. It's really wonderful to see that kind of recognition from him - sort of the anti JKR feel, since he's not claiming credit for what they did wrong, but owning up to where they fell short! (Also, DS9 is my absolute favorite Trek, so I'd highly recommend the documentary to anyone.)
(I thought I should point out I feel quietly represented by Jet Reno. Orientation? Identity? 'I didn't say, should I be fixing something right now?' :))
I've Always Thought The "Turnabout Intruder" episode from Star Trek The Original Series,was Queer themed It's the one where Kirks soul goes into a womans body and her soul goes into Kirks body...
Miles and Keiko were a believable couple with realistic problems, but Stammets and Culber were super cute and they didn't make the mistake of implying they were perfect. Sorry, O'Brians, you're in 2nd place. Molly was super adorable though.
Yo this comment section is so scary for someone who's just been getting into the fandom. It be like: yea there was FENSKS and they were nonbynary, but then this other character (weird alien name). Me: confused screaming
Plenty of shows look at their audience / fans and give them something to connect with. However, Star Trek has a history of doing the opposite, eg a collection of TV shows and movies that ignore Star Trek's core principles. What was once a ground breaking TV show with an important message has been turned into a financial venture which cares little for it's loyal fan base. Paramount has done an extremely poor job of "looking after" Star Trek
The last episode of Discovery hinted that our favorite gay couple probably will be splitting up with one going to Enterprise and one going into the future. If they are indeed going to be split and the relationship ending, have the haters won by convincing the producers to write their relationship out of the show?
James Tarr not at all. Relationships end, gay or straight. It’s never particularly happy, but honestly we’ve so rarely had an amicable breakup on screen, no matter the sexuality. So I’m honestly glad to see it in a way. I do hope they end up happy, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have to end up happy together. Sexuality doesn’t necessarily mean relationship. Honestly, it would be cool to see a gay single person in Trek, treated just like a straight single character.
@@JessieGender1 As I was writing my response I was thinking something similar. Many relations end, both str8 and gay. I just hope they don't make Stamets a gay monk while his str8 counterparts are busy trying to bed every Orion in sight. *8) We need love too!
Hmmm… TOS version of Sulu clearly lusts for women, but seems to enjoy his male companionship as well. Kelvin version of Sulu is “blink-and-you’ll-miss-it” in a same-gender relationship. I am 99% Sulu is bi/pan.
I remember the episode "Rejoined." A friend of mine told me that there was Heavy smooching between two females. Kudos to Terry Farrell oh she was hot. I wouldn't have minded kissing her. I also remember the episode "Outcast." I remember two things about it. 1)How scared and uncomfortable the character was with herself and 2) how complicated she made sex between two of her species sound. Apparently it's pretty painful.
I haven’t listened to this whole segment but since you’re now already talking about the next generation, I’m guessing you missed out on an episode called the cage and it’s later to part show the menagerie. The original Star Trek series portrayed an alien with a huge head that could create illusions and spoke telepathically but the interesting thing about the character was the character was played by two actors. The voice of the character was male although enhanced by some kind of vocoder or machinery of the day, but the physical action that happened was played by a female. Talk about your nonbinary alien. Happens to be my most favourite most beloved most… Sexy character in all of Star Trek. Throughout the script, this characters pronoun was he and him, but I would say that the rejected pilot the cage bringing out this first alien as a sort of amalgam of male and female or some kind of non-binary was freaking visionary.
All star trek accomplished was a world that managed to stop fighting with itself, so it may fight with other worlds. A make believe universe reflecting it's own world.
I don’t like Discovery at all, liked some of TOS all of ds9 n TNG alot of Voyager. Despite some of her less than stellar choices Janeway was my favorite captain. Liked Enterprise as well. I didn’t like Sulu being gay in the jj movie for why Takei didn’t, the actor was gay yes but nothing said the character was. Terminator was a good movie but they didn’t make the robots Austrian just cause Arnold was. The way I would like to see any lgbt characters in Star Trek would be that they are just there. Part of the crew, no big deal about it no focus on it, it wouldnt be spectacular or of note just viewed as totally normal.
Don't be too harsh on TOS for not including gay representation. In the 1960's this would still have been a step too far for a general audience. (In 1972, David Bowie camply put his arm around guitarist Mick Ronson's shoulders on Top of the Pops, while looking knowingly into the camera, and sparked absolute outrage in the UK. Utterly unremarkable today, but totally shocking at the time ua-cam.com/video/oOKWF3IHu0I/v-deo.html ). TOS did include a non-binary character in 'Gamsters of Triskelion', even though it was mainly played for laughs, it was there.
I just figured out that the costume designer of the original Star Trek series was actually gay. And you know what, that's why it took me years to finally find out, that the show is actually good. I just didn't like the overall look of it. I thought it was strange and so I didn't want to watch it. The second thing I want to say is: I don't want to be forced to see gay men. And I'm not sorry for it, it's just how I honestly feel like. You (the queer community) want people to respect your feelings, so please respect other people's feelings, too! The more you force people into seeing things, they don't want to see, the more hate you will gain. I'm a straight man and I simply don't like to see two men kissing or whatever. It doesn't matter what film or what show or whatever it is, I will turn it off immediately, because it gives me really bad feelings watching it. It's not my fault, it's just, how I feel! So be who ever you are, love whoever you love, but please don't force me or anybody else to watch it.
I'm gay, and loved the gay story line of the fan made blood and fire trek story having Peter Kirk being gay and having a boyfriend on the Enterprise. However I totally ignore that shit show Discovery as I don't consider it true Trek, it's a slap in Roddenberry's visions face. So I don't care what gay character's it might show. When ever they actually do a decent honest Trek that follows Gene's vision and they add a gay character then fine. Till then screw discovery as it's just pure shit and not worth the time of day.
Co But, y forget the turn about intruder.... it's not god representation. But, it was there in TOS. Not Only does Dr. Janice become Trans... sort of Along with Captain Kirk. Tat she choices to do so. But, Dr. Arthur Coleman is still into Janice as Kirk. What their doing is hirable, but he does it for love. And doesn't seem to care it Janice is a woman ore a man. And the episode is done for a goofy reason, but it is there. Ok it's reaching, but it's there. Also Kirk is way more consened with getting his ship back than his man hood. While Janice is obsesed with being a man. As well as a Captain. Luckily Female Captains appear by the movies. So the uggh par of this episode is turned down a bit. And I admit tat to call this repasentation is being stretched o the pint of Mr. Fantastic arm wrestling Plastic Man. It still is something. I've seen bigger leaps in logic. Also Shatner asked for tis one to be made. He wanted to test his acting chops. And it's still not as bad as Spock's brain. At any rate Dr. Colman can be seen as Bi sexual or maybe Omni. He helps Dr. Lester cause well he's in love with the Doctor. And if Lester's plan had worked. Dr.Leste would have never been a woman again. And Dr. Colman seems o with that. Martia from Star Trek The Undiscovered Country is there to. But, Their not great. And Marita is in Stealth's Kirk . So that was wrong. Bread and Circuses. I think Captain Merick has a thing for Claudius.. Weather Claudius returns that feeling or not. I'm not sure. Again this is reaching, but it's kind of there. And way cool vid.
I apologize, but I don't care about sexuality in Star Trek. I just want interesting and intelligent stories where sexuality does not matter...Where people just do their jobs, save the day and no one cares who anyone is married to or is dating....I loved Star Trek for the blind visions of all that
Me too! It shouldn't matter whether you're gay or straight, black, brown, or white, etc. And star trek purports to uphold this value, and often does a good job. But imagine being a gay trekkie growing up, hearing all this talk about accepting differences, and yet whenever romance happens on the show, it's between a man and a woman. If you can't even *mention* being gay, that's not really egalitarian is it? And besides, I'm not sure I agree with you that romance and sexuality shouldn't be on star trek at all. The series has always focused heavily on the human condition, and loving other humans is a huge part of that. Peace be with you
When Odo yells into Quark's bar: "Ladies, Gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures" my heart went !!! a little bit. I have also heard a rumor that Kira and Jadzia's actors wanted them to be together, but were told no, so they played them in a way that showed chemistry even though they knew they'd never get to follow through. The first time I watched the series I was really hoping they'd get together because to me, they are clearly attracted to one another.
They were totally doing it in that Lancelot holoprogram. You don’t wear clothes that big unless you’re planning on tearing them off
Perhaps I’ve said too much
The Jadzia kiss was such a big deal to me, it was the first female kiss I think I'd ever seen, it was a light ball moment like" holy shit I can do that?"
Omg same
You forgot the kiss between Uhura and Chapel in What Are Little Girls Made Of? 2:49
The term "slashfic" actually started with the kirk/Spock gay stories and it was actually the first one, not just "One of the first."
The Culmets “dear doctor” is a Garashir reference, CHANGE MY MIND
Haha, nope, I don’t disagree haha
Haha holy shit, I missed that! Garashir for life
Oh my God, they were shipmates
Loved the video! Also, there's an episode of DS9 where a female Ferengi cross-dresses as a male Ferengi. And Dax realizes the fact that the Ferengi loves Quark. Then Dax is later surprised to find out that she is female. So, she assumed the Ferengi was gay, and it wasn't anything out of the norm. It's a really subtle moment so it doesn't do much for queer representation, but those small subtle bits are very welcomed! :)
Also, McCoy called the Tribbles bisexual and that fills me up with so much fuzzy joy lol
There is also a DS9 episode where Quark crossdresses as a female Ferengi :D
There is also Odo's race of changelings. While they are played by both male and female actors, this is an entire species that can literally be anything.
Waterpaper He meant “hermaphroditic”?
That, and quark only minded kissing her AFTER he learned she was a woman. I still despise ferengi, but hey.
I definitely read Jadzia as pan when I rewatched the series recently. That girl flirts with everyone, and it is beautiful. Also, I kinda liked that the women got to be openly sexual in the series without being condemned for it, felt nice to see.
In the beginning of Star Trek nemesis Data grabs everyone’s attention at the wedding by saying “lady’s and gentlemen, and transgendered species” so....
Odo does something similar in If Wishes Were Horses saying, "Ladies and gentlemen, and all androgynous creatures..." when telling a group about what's going on. It still definitely has that vibe of "aliens can have different genders but not humans" like I get with a lot of the Trill stories, and using "androgynous creatures," to tell stories, rather than what we know with humans, or more known aliens. I do think that making Spock have a learning disability/neurodivergency in Discovery makes a lot of sense and helps us connect with that, but gender really isn't explored much, even in Discovery.
I like the way that "Rejoined" was done. It managed to address the audience on a present day issue, within a world in which the actual subject matter should no longer be an issue. If we can't get past issues like queerphobia by the 23rd, or at lest the 24th century, then we are hopeless as a species.
I was forbidden to watch Star Trek TNG as a kid due to growing up in an evangelical Christian family. My mom took one look at Worf and declared, "you're not watching DEMONS in this house!" I decided not to upset her, so I watched it on the sly whenever I could find it when she wasn't around. I don't think my folks meant to raise me to hate anyone, but I definitely think I'd be a bit of a bigot if not for TNG showing me Roddenberry's vision.
Jessie, I just want you to know this video is assigned viewing in my Race, Gender, and Sex in Sci-fi class at ASU. ❤❤❤❤❤
Very well thought out and put together, Jessie! I remember watching “The Outcast” with my mom and knowing exactly what they were trying to convey. It was reassuring knowing my mom had empathy for the androgynous character, Soren, even though she didn’t see the alagory for LGBTQ people. :) well done!
Great video! Like all members of the lgbt community, I have become an expert at recognizing subtext, and unfortunately, for years that's all we had in Trek. But boy did we make good use of it! Trek fandom invented "slash", which is now common in every modern fandom. Slash and long life!
I think Voyager final episode "Endgame", would have been much better, if instead of dating Chakotay, Seven and Janeway should have started a relationship. Nothing against him (he actually got somewhat sidelined after S3) but they really had chemistry. And would have made Sevens future death and Janeways decisions so much more inpactfull.
My only protest is that Chakotay is clearly deeply in love with Janeway
OK but the greatest failing of Star Trek was not ever making Spock/Kirk Canon. Which is completely understandable given the times and everything, but I'm still kinda sad about that. In every incarnation of Star Trek they have great chemistry and are very Shipp able.
Kirk could be the last person on Earth to be homosexual. His character was a manly man and very masculine. He was kinda James Bond of Star Trek Tos, ladies man.
@@scorpionkobra Manly man are also gay. Nothing as manly as being completely at ease with one's manhood AND sexuality. Honestly, nothing screams insecurity as a man being terrified of another men.....
@@Tijggie82 If manly man is gay then it means he is not manly at all. Illogical argument
@@scorpionkobra it's only illogical if you have a narrowminded, world-fearing point of view. Honestly, to some "men" everything is "unmanly" unless it follows their own limited point of view. Pathetic.
@@Tijggie82 Illogical answer again. Logic is not a thing among gays like you.
The ending of the episode "The Outcast" had, what I always felt, the harshest and hard hitting endings of any Star Trek episode. I remember actually feeling almost sick at what Soren's people did to them at the end. Which was essentially a lobotomy/brainwashing them back to being what they considered "acceptable". Just the impact of that hit a bit harder than when Tasha is killed or when Jadzia dies. I just remember thinking that Riker would beam Soren up and have the doctor undo whatever the J'rell had done. The fact it was just left like that was just so bloody harsh. Like, "oh, you're not following the rules, so time to fiddle your brain up a bit, and the rest of y'all can just deal with it". It was the fact that it wasn't just a lost love episode, but a losing your identity because of societies expectations that really just turned my stomach a bit. One of the most tragic episodes in the entirety of Star Trek in my opinion.
Anyhow, another great video.
Peace and long life.
Yeah, it was disgusting, and a completely tragic ending for me. I was shocked that it wasn't considered as such by the creators.
Melinda Culea was part of a non binary race as Soren. She expressed her gender preference, but was said t be a deviant!😕 Don’t you think we all have a right to choose our gender?
Same. I cried during and after that episode.
Thanks for making this video. It was wonderfully done and I'm going to share it around.
I think Lal deserves special mention for being the first explicitly trans character in the franchise even if the episode never highlighted her as such. Similar to Outcast, they used agender to female as opposed to transitioning from one of the binary genders to another (I hope I’m articulating that correctly), but nonetheless, her father very progressively allowed her to choose her gender identity and she explicitly underwent her transition onscreen, even if yes she is an android and the show never specifically highlights queer issues while also showcasing an extremely progressive and open view of gender identity, and could be argued as one of the earliest examples of normalization of such things. Again, indirect in comparison to showing a human character transition from male to female or vice versa, but nonetheless I still consider Lal to be Trek’s first trans character and that wonderful episode deserves so much credit.
It also made me cry.
Lal is a treasure.
Also every Bridge crew character in TOS was bisexual, fight me.
And Tasha is gay. she’s so gay sorry Castillo fans. It’s just true
Just my geek coming out: isn't the first phrase, peace and long life, followed by the response, live long and prosper?
veggieowlgirl haha indeed it tis, that’s one of my fav pieces of geek trivia to trot out. But generally, more people remember and use live long and prosper, so that’s what I typically use as my sign off.
I discovered fanfiction a few years ago and I never want to surface back from that rabbit hole.
For many reasons but one of them is that I can find stories where the characters gender is unimportant and doesn't play a role.
Let me explain.
Most stories have women behave in a certain way, do certain things, even we expect certain behaviours from male and female. When the story is between two persons of the same gender, this traditional way of telling a story flies out the window.
It becomes a story about two equals coming together. It helps us understand and see that gender is not an all defining thing.
It also normalises that you can feel atracted to what you feel atracted to.
Despite the many issues with fanfiction (and there are) I am hopeful that it will help create more enlightened future generations.
Such a awesome video with great research and quotes! Btw Takei has recently talked about discussions between him and Gene about adding gay themes during the orginal series but Roddenberry knew he was already pushing the envelope in so many ways and that if he tried to do it he could be shut down.
Yeah apparently the show took a huge hit in viewership after the Kirk-Uhura kiss and they were on the edge of being cancelled :/
Let's be honest: it wasn't until Will and Grace, and later Buffy The Vampire Slayer that TV shows began to put LGBT people as main characters. Will and Grace broke ground using a comedic setting (though rarely showed a same-sex couple kissing), and Buffy did it in a serious setting with Willow and Tara.
@2manynegativewaves Possibly true. I've pretty much only seen British sitcoms from that era, and while there were a lot of camp characters, I don't remember any that were explicitly LGBT.
from what i've read, alexander siddig and andrew robinson tried to play bashir and garak as though they were a couple, but executives vetoed and gave them less screentime together
oh yeah, hell even before I actually learned of that news I had always interpreted Garak as at least being Bisexually coded.
I always saw O'Bashir as a side couple. Miles would hang out with Julian WAY too often in spandex when Keiko wasn't around. I picked up on Garak's clues, but didn't realize in first run that Barak were bts canon. D'oh!
@@brainlock72 it's a polyam relationship, obv
@@kaelang12 obviously poly-parallelogram!
@@brainlock72so what are Garak and Keiko getting up to when Bashir and O’Brien are “fighting the battle of the Alamo”
I'm a straight white cisgender male and I'm proud to be one, but I appreciate your channel absolutely! I was just introduced to your Channel today and subscribed after the first video I saw and this videos either the 3rd or 4th video I saw before finally commenting.
I would like to point out that admittedly I felt awkward watching your channel for the first time but that's just because I'm not used to seeing someone who is transgender. Obviously someone who is transgender is much less common than someone who is cisgender, but as I watched your video and listen to your points I really like what you got to say. I'm not going to pretend that I never felt awkward about transgender people because that's just trying to cover things up. I have felt awkward about them before and it's possible I might still I feel awkward about them now or later, but I still try to do my best to only judge somebody based on their character and personality.
You make some pretty damn good videos and it's surprising that your channel has been around as long as it has with only three thousand subscribers. My channel has been around a year less than yours with only 1.3 thousand subscribers, it just goes to show how tough is to gain a good footing on UA-cam. Thank you for your videos and thank you for your channel and thank you for your well done editing and well done narrating and everything you do! Awesome Channel and I think from what I can tell you are probably a pretty awesome person!
Sly88Frye thank you so much ❤️ I’m so glad to have you aboard and join my channels community!
Did TOS not touch on queer themes at all? What about the episode Metamorphosis? The episode was about Kirk and co. coming upon Zefram Cochrane, whose life was being sustained by an alien entity known as the Companion. When he discovers that the Companion loves him, he is revolted. But, Kirk, Spock, and McCoy have no issue with it at all. Cochrane finally accepts and returns the Companion's love when the Companion possesses the body of the dying Commissioner Hedford. I may have read elsewhere that the episode was meant to address interracial relationships, but as I see it, it really addresses any kind of "different" relationship. It's true that the episode does not come right out and blatantly endorse those relationships, as the episode's "happy ending" came only when Cochrane could accept the Companion in a human body, rather than her true form. Maybe, given the times, the network, or the producers, couldn't allow that. But it did seem clear that the author's point-of-view, reflected in our heroes, was that "different" relationships were acceptable.
I think about that episode a lot, because they make it straight by making the cloud female but also the TOS crew knew what was up before then even knew THE CLOUD gender and they thought the guy was a huge bigot for treating the cloud's love as something disgusting.
Hi from Australia! Great video thanks Jessie, as a long-term Trekkie I'm really enjoying all your Star Trek videos 😀
Thanks! I’m so glad you like the channel :)
7:43 Of course Jadzia is Bi-Sexual! 350+ years of memories from Male and Female hosts, She's ready to fall in love with anyone, and She don't discriminate! You forgot to comment on that Voyager episode (don't remember title) where there was that race that had a third gender, was that a voyager episode? I don't know, I've been awake too long.
Raiden Digital haha fair, I did miss that one. It’s actually an enterprise episode. It’s not really about gender though, but more of a general discrimination metaphor. It doesn’t really deal with transgender or gender issues. But I should have at least gave it a specific callout
Jadzia even dated a guy with a transparent skull. With her "age" and experience, I don't think externals like skull opacity, gender, etc even occurred to her. If you were interesting and, more importantly, fun, she was willing to give most people at least a date or two. (I really hope she drew the line at Medusans!)
But the show (cough. rick. cough.) repeatedly forced her to act as straight as possible.
That was "Co-genitor", and it was tremendously tragic. Still brings the tears to my eyes.
Great video! I remember watching that ds9 episode w/ Jadzia and Lenara when I was a kid and I thought about it for weeks. In hindsight it was probably the first hint I wasn't straight lol. Anyway I truly think Rick Berman was the main problem here, I've heard rumours over the years on various forums that garak/bashir was supposed to be the first gay pairing on star trek (adding to that Andrew Robinson's comments about portraying Garak as pansexual and his novel A stitch in time) but Berman backpedalled.
Which does surprise me, he just seems like all around terrible guy. Terry Farrell left before the last season because she asked to be in fewer episodes and was denied, Colm Meaney requested the same so he could pursue other projects while also being on ds9 and he did! Also the way Berman treated her was abhorrent.
Ana T indeed. I saw the ds9 doc after I made this and honestly had I seen it before I may have been harsher
In the episode that I can't remember the name, but it was the TOS episode that introduced the idea that Zephryn Cochran invented warp drive, and there's a weird energy being in love with him, and he's not cool with that, and Kirk and Spock are like "Chill out, bro", and Spock calls him "colloquial", it was kind of a subtle nod to queer issues.
Parochial was the word used and I had to look it up because I didn't know what that meant.
I watched that episode a couple days ago, it's called Metamorphosis and it's in season 2, and another thing I noticed was that when Kirk described what romantic love was he mentioned things like risking his life and making sacrifices for who he loves, which one, isn't purely limited to romantic love, and two, describes Kirk's relationship with Spock
@@natania7738 I've heard rumors that Gene Roddenberry was for real wanting to make Kirk and Spock a thing. Not sure if I believe them, Gene himself said he had the gay issue wrong and didn't get enlightened I think until after TOS. But George Takei was out to the cast other than Shatner and Gene was good with it
I'm in the middle of a TOS binge and the algorithm recommended me just what I needed! Great video ❤️
Fanfiction no doubt becoming very common for conservatives because of this however that in itself could eventually lead to the big film companies stepping in to regulate what can exist in fanon and what can't.
I see the title card and my mind immediately goes 'where the f*ck is Garak!?'
Star trek disovery made me love Trek. The addition of a gay couple (Stamets + Culber) and 2 trans characters (Gray and Adira) Not to mention those two loving each other so deeply made me love this franchise so much, as well as the very rich history behind the franchise itself. It also introduced me to actors Blu Del Barrio and Ian Alexander, and they’re both friends IRL
I don't like how Star Trek TNG's two first transgender characters were erased through conversion therapy or death, but aside from that it did rather well
Love the videos! I believe Burgoyne is on the lower left of the shot of the Excalibur crew, the character you zoomed in on is Zak Kebron.
I have to finish the New Voyages quote now
“Lieutenant Sulu…”
“You wish!”
seven of nine was my sudden awakening of oh I like girls too
I have to say this video was very indepth and truly moving. It touched on all the right points and brought awareness to a sad and troubled history that star trek has had regarding the lack of representation of the lgbtq community. I wish more could have been done with Trek, given an ounce of time a nugget of worth but this video has shed light on so many things. It might be worth noting that in season 2 of discovery we meet another lgbtq character though won't spoil that for those who haven't seen it, and they have a recurring role. Also for star trek online players who play the discovery route turns out you find out that Laudry is a lesbian, I can't recall if they ever brought up her history regarding romantics but if you play through that storyline it sheds some hope and the fact that is in a video game of star trek kind of goes a long way. There is even an andorian you meet who has two wives and one husband. Star Trek however still has a long way to go and with no new plans for star trek in film, because of Anton's death and the two Chris actors dropping out due to money, and Tarentino likely opting out of his final film being an R rated one...we have Discovery and Picard for now. Anyway in my long ramble what you are doing here is great and keep up the great work.
Riker “did”anything so I count him as a slight character in this category.
They refused to show it on screen, but he was at least by word of god pansexual.
@@Gamerkat10 There's one comment in Generations where he emphasizes the lack of women would have made travel by boat less interesting, but that comment aside, yeah, I'd consider him pansexual, or possibly bisexual with a preference for women. I still would love to see another series that takes place closer in time to when TNG/DS9/VOY happen and maybe revisit the idea of that race of androgynous people. I've also seen people do fan art that Picard is demisexual, which I totally see. He wasn't really motivated by looks or first impressions, but rather shared interests and a non-physical connection.
Huzzah! Brilliant video. Thank you.
I mean Stamets and Culber relationship in Disco is the best relationship of the show and this is coming from a atraight dude
EDIT: Though if Saru officially gets a partner then that will be best relationship cause MY BOII SARU MUST BE PROTECTED AT ALL COSTS!!!
Knocked this one outta the park.
I was at a Trek convention in about 1994*, and Branon and Braga were speakers. They were asked why there are almost no women of color on the show and they stammered and didn't answer and finally came up with something about no women of color coming into the casting calls. Pathetic. *Philadelphia, the Valley Forge Convention Center, other speaker was Gates
Oh thank you for that, I will add that to my research for a future video TBH
This video means a lot to me.
This comment means a lot to me
This was so good!
Terrific! Happy Pride Month. This was fascinating.
Your shirt gives me life
You definitely can't knock the original star trek who had viewership that even thought a man and a women sleeping in the same bed on tv was bad. Star Trek has constantly knocked on the door of inclusion for diversity which paved the way for it to speak freely like it does today.
It seems like TOS was more of a maverick out of the gate than the rest of the franchise. I wonder if maybe as a new series, it had more freedom to fail. It's like the subsequent series and movies had a legacy, fans they could piss off, and so they were afraid to push the envelope more than TOS was. I remember when Next Gen came out and all the discussion about whether or not it would be good enough to live up to TOS. I think it took a while for the franchise to get over that whole conversation and doubt.
I forget the name of the episode, but one I watched over and over was the one where Erzi does the whole murder investigation thing... Looking back, I really identified with Ezri as a character b/c of her like anxiety and not really being quite sure of herself. At the time, being hyper self-closeted and not understanding my transgender identity (the very concept at the time was beyond unthinkable to me at the time), I interpreted this as a sort of crush, but looking back now I think it wasn't so much of that. I think I just really related to the character. Plus, with that episode in particular, Ezri deals with some darker emotions and impulses (almost stabbing somebody in Quark's), and all though I don't like to dwell or talk about them, is definitely something I have in me as well. I don't think I'd ever act on them, but those kinds of thoughts do pop in my head from time to time. Though I have to say perhaps my biggest... coping mechanism...? I guess is the word for it, back in the day was playing WoW as female characters. At the time, I remember wondering why whenever I tried to play as a male character, it just didn't work. Something felt off. Usually, I'd get the character to around lvl 10 or so, and then end up deleting them. I remember also eventually going by my characters pronouns, though I didn't understand why at the time. I mean, it wasn't like I was on a roleplaying server or anything. I could go on, but I think my stream of consciousness here has gone on long enough. o_o'
wow, tha blue haircolor looked awesome!!
Well done...and thank you.
It's a perfect fine video, merci
Beautifully presented! Thank you for doing this. 🏳️🌈🇻🇮🖖🏼
Win will we see Star Trek renegades part two and three on iPads?
Another example from the novels...in the second of the "Legacies" books, there's a trans character. She's the chief of security at a facility where an important peace negotiation is to take place, and pretty cool. Of course in text you have to kind of clunkily just SAY it instead of letting the audience infer (or NOT) through subtleties of voice and mannerism, but still...nice to see that inclusion in a book that takes place during Kirk's time.
(edited because of my stupid wordiness, lol)
Love your channel!!!
In these episodes mentioned, i am of the opinion that “selling out” is not an apt description. I remember watching them in a conservative Christian environment, and they were a delightful “Trojan horse”, as it were, for me to open my mind-particularly the Trill episode in TNG with Dr Crusher and the romance between the androgynous character and Riker. If the episodes had been more brazen, I would not have had the opportunity to expose myself to another perspective. These were massively important seeds to be planted in my mind-i would be lost without the LGBTQ themes in Star Trek.
Yes! Exactly. I think themes like this are AS important as the explicit representation. It's a great way to introduce the idea to cishet audiences without upsetting them to the point they turn their brains off. It can get them thinking about it! And that's what I've always loved about Star Trek, it gets you to stop and think for yourself! It's a shame they were held back from what they really wanted to do, though.
That's what I love about Star Trek. They don't blatantly say what they want, they use story and subtext so it doesn't feel so preachy sometimes. What comes to mind is Rejoined, where Dax is reunited with someone from her past. They didn't mention at all that it was wrong for two women to be involved, it was wrong because of the Trill taboo for symbionts to be reunited in love. We all knew what the message really was.
Just found your videos here, and I love them! I've seen you on "The Advocate" before but had no idea you were a Trekkie, and this is amazing - I always love discovering progressive Trekkie UA-camrs. You're motivating me to finish up DIS so I can watch your reviews, ooh. If only my free trial hadn't run out partway into S2!
Anyways, for this video specifically! LOVE your analysis, though I can't help but wish you'd mentioned some of the other major slash ships in the fandom, especially across other series. Of course Kirk/Spock is the most popular haha, so I get that. Have you seen the new Deep Space Nine documentary, "What We Left Behind"? The popular fan ship of Elim Garak and Julian Bashir is brought up, particularly in how actor Andy Robinson wanted to portray it. Ira Steven Behr also makes an assessment like yours, that while "Rejoined" was good, they should have done better. It's really wonderful to see that kind of recognition from him - sort of the anti JKR feel, since he's not claiming credit for what they did wrong, but owning up to where they fell short! (Also, DS9 is my absolute favorite Trek, so I'd highly recommend the documentary to anyone.)
(I thought I should point out I feel quietly represented by Jet Reno. Orientation? Identity? 'I didn't say, should I be fixing something right now?' :))
My level of English isn't good enough for me to understand everything in this video(mabe 80%(I hope)), but it's really interesting. Thank you for it.
I've Always Thought The "Turnabout Intruder" episode from Star Trek The Original Series,was Queer themed
It's the one where Kirks soul goes into a womans body and her soul goes into Kirks body...
have you finished The Lightning Thief yet?
Slash came from specifically kirk/Spock stories.
5:06 is the saddest and most heartbreaking thing i've ever seen
Miles and Keiko were a believable couple with realistic problems, but Stammets and Culber were super cute and they didn't make the mistake of implying they were perfect. Sorry, O'Brians, you're in 2nd place.
Molly was super adorable though.
I’m so glad I forgot that DS9 episode w/ trans Quark, major yikes.
It’s not as legendarily bad as Threshold or that Crusher ghost love episode but I do see it on a lot of worst episode lists.
@@Dogy0909 I mean, at least that Crusher Ghost love episode is kinda hilarious in its awfulness, Profit and Lace is just offensive.
@@KhaosAdmiral Oh yeah, I love that it’s like a shitty paperback romance novel, kinda fun.
Hmmm... 3 years late, the algo gives me this.
Yo this comment section is so scary for someone who's just been getting into the fandom.
It be like: yea there was FENSKS and they were nonbynary, but then this other character (weird alien name).
Me: confused screaming
Plenty of shows look at their audience / fans and give them something to connect with. However, Star Trek has a history of doing the opposite, eg a collection of TV shows and movies that ignore Star Trek's core principles. What was once a ground breaking TV show with an important message has been turned into a financial venture which cares little for it's loyal fan base.
Paramount has done an extremely poor job of "looking after" Star Trek
The last episode of Discovery hinted that our favorite gay couple probably will be splitting up with one going to Enterprise and one going into the future. If they are indeed going to be split and the relationship ending, have the haters won by convincing the producers to write their relationship out of the show?
James Tarr not at all. Relationships end, gay or straight. It’s never particularly happy, but honestly we’ve so rarely had an amicable breakup on screen, no matter the sexuality. So I’m honestly glad to see it in a way. I do hope they end up happy, but that doesn’t necessarily mean they have to end up happy together. Sexuality doesn’t necessarily mean relationship. Honestly, it would be cool to see a gay single person in Trek, treated just like a straight single character.
@@JessieGender1 As I was writing my response I was thinking something similar. Many relations end, both str8 and gay. I just hope they don't make Stamets a gay monk while his str8 counterparts are busy trying to bed every Orion in sight. *8) We need love too!
He _"played him as straight....?_
What?
That's what he thought he was doing? What does that mean?
Hmmm… TOS version of Sulu clearly lusts for women, but seems to enjoy his male companionship as well. Kelvin version of Sulu is “blink-and-you’ll-miss-it” in a same-gender relationship. I am 99% Sulu is bi/pan.
I remember the episode "Rejoined." A friend of mine told me that there was Heavy smooching between two females. Kudos to Terry Farrell oh she was hot. I wouldn't have minded kissing her. I also remember the episode "Outcast." I remember two things about it. 1)How scared and uncomfortable the character was with herself and 2) how complicated she made sex between two of her species sound. Apparently it's pretty painful.
I haven’t listened to this whole segment but since you’re now already talking about the next generation, I’m guessing you missed out on an episode called the cage and it’s later to part show the menagerie. The original Star Trek series portrayed an alien with a huge head that could create illusions and spoke telepathically but the interesting thing about the character was the character was played by two actors. The voice of the character was male although enhanced by some kind of vocoder or machinery of the day, but the physical action that happened was played by a female. Talk about your nonbinary alien. Happens to be my most favourite most beloved most… Sexy character in all of Star Trek. Throughout the script, this characters pronoun was he and him, but I would say that the rejected pilot the cage bringing out this first alien as a sort of amalgam of male and female or some kind of non-binary was freaking visionary.
Totally off topic, but I feel that if you don't already have them, you a set of Wonder Woman bracers.
Gregory Whittaker haha I already own two sets of them haha
All star trek accomplished was a world that managed to stop fighting with itself, so it may fight with other worlds. A make believe universe reflecting it's own world.
Id love more on genes history with queer fandom and trying to get more queer representation 👍
11:54 That's the main reason I read yaoi or m/m novels.
THAT SHIRT
I don’t like Discovery at all, liked some of TOS all of ds9 n TNG alot of Voyager. Despite some of her less than stellar choices Janeway was my favorite captain.
Liked Enterprise as well. I didn’t like Sulu being gay in the jj movie for why Takei didn’t, the actor was gay yes but nothing said the character was. Terminator was a good movie but they didn’t make the robots Austrian just cause Arnold was.
The way I would like to see any lgbt characters in Star Trek would be that they are just there. Part of the crew, no big deal about it no focus on it, it wouldnt be spectacular or of note just viewed as totally normal.
joanna russ ❤️ i quote her more than a few times in my dissertation
Okaaayyyy love it all but ... Slash fiction is a bit much.... Wait what about the episode where kirk is a woman
Don't be too harsh on TOS for not including gay representation. In the 1960's this would still have been a step too far for a general audience. (In 1972, David Bowie camply put his arm around guitarist Mick Ronson's shoulders on Top of the Pops, while looking knowingly into the camera, and sparked absolute outrage in the UK. Utterly unremarkable today, but totally shocking at the time ua-cam.com/video/oOKWF3IHu0I/v-deo.html ).
TOS did include a non-binary character in 'Gamsters of Triskelion', even though it was mainly played for laughs, it was there.
Also I really loved data,,,,,,,,which should of been my clue into Asexuality
Comment left for the ever-hungry comment monster aka Dr. Algorithm
I just figured out that the costume designer of the original Star Trek series was actually gay. And you know what, that's why it took me years to finally find out, that the show is actually good. I just didn't like the overall look of it. I thought it was strange and so I didn't want to watch it.
The second thing I want to say is: I don't want to be forced to see gay men. And I'm not sorry for it, it's just how I honestly feel like. You (the queer community) want people to respect your feelings, so please respect other people's feelings, too!
The more you force people into seeing things, they don't want to see, the more hate you will gain. I'm a straight man and I simply don't like to see two men kissing or whatever. It doesn't matter what film or what show or whatever it is, I will turn it off immediately, because it gives me really bad feelings watching it. It's not my fault, it's just, how I feel!
So be who ever you are, love whoever you love, but please don't force me or anybody else to watch it.
Do couples really brush their teeth next to each other? That's just gross.
Way, way way, wait, are you saying Trekkies are gay?
Yup, quite a few of us actually.
@@JessieGender1 Hear, hear!
love star trek:)
Tholians
I'm gay, and loved the gay story line of the fan made blood and fire trek story having Peter Kirk being gay and having a boyfriend on the Enterprise. However I totally ignore that shit show Discovery as I don't consider it true Trek, it's a slap in Roddenberry's visions face. So I don't care what gay character's it might show. When ever they actually do a decent honest Trek that follows Gene's vision and they add a gay character then fine. Till then screw discovery as it's just pure shit and not worth the time of day.
Co But, y forget the turn about intruder.... it's not god representation. But, it was there in TOS. Not Only does Dr. Janice become Trans... sort of Along with Captain Kirk. Tat she choices to do so. But, Dr. Arthur Coleman is still into Janice as Kirk. What their doing is hirable, but he does it for love. And doesn't seem to care it Janice is a woman ore a man. And the episode is done for a goofy reason, but it is there. Ok it's reaching, but it's there. Also Kirk is way more consened with getting his ship back than his man hood. While Janice is obsesed with being a man.
As well as a Captain. Luckily Female Captains appear by the movies. So the uggh par of this episode is turned down a bit. And I admit tat to call this repasentation is being stretched o the pint of Mr. Fantastic arm wrestling Plastic Man. It still is something. I've seen bigger leaps in logic. Also Shatner asked for tis one to be made. He wanted to test his acting chops. And it's still not as bad as Spock's brain. At any rate Dr. Colman can be seen as Bi sexual or maybe Omni. He helps Dr. Lester cause well he's in love with the Doctor. And if Lester's plan had worked. Dr.Leste would have never been a woman again. And Dr. Colman seems o with that.
Martia from Star Trek The Undiscovered Country is there to. But, Their not great. And Marita is in Stealth's Kirk . So that was wrong. Bread and Circuses. I think Captain Merick has a thing for Claudius.. Weather Claudius returns that feeling or not. I'm not sure. Again this is reaching, but it's kind of there. And way cool vid.
Sulu being gay in that last movie was an asspull and even George takei had a serious issue with it
:)
I apologize, but I don't care about sexuality in Star Trek. I just want interesting and intelligent stories where sexuality does not matter...Where people just do their jobs, save the day and no one cares who anyone is married to or is dating....I loved Star Trek for the blind visions of all that
Me too! It shouldn't matter whether you're gay or straight, black, brown, or white, etc. And star trek purports to uphold this value, and often does a good job. But imagine being a gay trekkie growing up, hearing all this talk about accepting differences, and yet whenever romance happens on the show, it's between a man and a woman. If you can't even *mention* being gay, that's not really egalitarian is it? And besides, I'm not sure I agree with you that romance and sexuality shouldn't be on star trek at all. The series has always focused heavily on the human condition, and loving other humans is a huge part of that. Peace be with you
Omg!!..
So Star Trek was a bunch of "Fruitloops"