Metabolism, Brain Energy, and Mental Health with Dr. Chris Palmer | Being Well Podcast
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2024
- Dr. Chris Palmer, assistant professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, joins me to discuss the relationship between metabolic function and mental illness.
We begin with Dr. Palmer’s work with patients suffering from severe conditions like schizophrenia and schizoaffective disorder, psychiatry’s current challenges with treatment-resistant conditions, and the important distinction between difficult psychological states and brain-based disorders. We then explore the relationship between mental illness and metabolic function, the key role mitochondria play in the process, and how current treatments impact our metabolism. Dr. Palmer and I close the episode by discussing a number of practical interventions to improve metabolic function, including the ketogenic diet, sleep, exercise, stress management techniques like mindfulness practice, and even love, connection, and sense of purpose.
Key Topics:
0:00 Introduction
1:30 How Dr. Palmer's personal experience has influenced his work
4:00 The brain energy theory as a response to treatment resistant conditions
9:35 Mental states vs. mental disorders, and problems with our diagnostic criteria
15:05 Brain disorders as metabolic disorders
20:30 Defining metabolism
23:25 The role of mitochondria
29:35 How medication affects metabolism
35:25 How stress and emotions affect metabolism
42:00 The ketogenic diet, mitophagy, and mitochondrial biogenesis
48:05 The importance of education and support around ketosis for medical conditions
53:30 Supplementing medication with lifestyle change vs. replacing it
57:00 Sleep and light exposure
1:00:15 Love, connection, and sense of purpose
1:07:15 A sense of safety as a prerequisite for healing
1:10:10 Recap
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Who Am I: I'm Forrest, the co-author of Resilient (amzn.to/3iXLerD) and host of the Being Well Podcast (apple.co/38ufGG0). I'm making videos focused on simplifying psychology, mental health, and personal growth.
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🌍 www.forresthanson.com
📸 / f.hanson
Dr. Palmer is the definition of a "wounded healer" i think. Thank you so very much for guesting him ❤️
When he asked him about the role of the mitochondria my brain instantly went:
"The Mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell"
Mine too, every time!
I love that Dr Palmer is willing to go on all these podcasts. He's great! Thank you gentlemen!
This was one of the most powerful episodes I've heard! Dense with great information and such a broad scope of subtopics well-integrated!
Wow. Very big gust of fresh air. Thanks for your fantastic work, Dr Palmer. TY, Forest for a great discussion!
Thank you this incredibly informative and reflective offering, Forrest! Right from the start I was reflecting on the "nervous breakdown" that my mother had, which I witnessed and didn't understand at all as a child of around 8 years old.🥺 Clearly she would have benefited from this updated knowledge. She suffered all her life as other medical issues arose. Today would have been her 87th birthday, but she died of pancreatic cancer 13 years ago.
Thankfully I've navigated a much healthier path and am grateful for the ongoing learning regarding mental health.
May we keep moving forward....🙏🏻🤗♥️
Thank you Forrest and Chris, I really appreciate this episode. Forrest, I love your interviewing skills. 🙏🏻
thank you for this. i'm diagnosed schizoaffective and mostly resigned to despair when i think about my options. i'm on medication that "works" but i always tell those close to me that i expect to die an early death. even with it "working" i am often very tired and sleep twelve hours a day or more most days. this gave me a lot to chew on.
i am always blown away by the level of conversation that takes place on your podcast every time i tune in, it is so insightful and considered without fail. thank you again
I send you a warm greeting. I admire your openness. Im sure it helps others suffering similarly.
You are not alone, Im bipolar 1 and also struggle with fatigue in the mornings. No matter how much I sleep, I feel tired. On keto and my meds. I think its my meds thats causing the fatigue. I also feel like my emotions are numbed by the meds. Hang in there!
I've received a scholarship to attend a conference on Adult Autism sponsored by a medical institution. I will use what I learn in this episode to enlighten a few folks! Thanks for this truth-telling interview!
❤❤
Dr Georgia Ede’s work with carnivore diet and schizophrenia and bipolar disorder was amazing . Keto on steroids for mood disorders for sure. Being in ketosis absolutely improved my baseline mood. RN 35 years
Min. 12-13... love! I got such an overwhelming emotion of relief, I had to stop the video, take some breaths and .. enjoy it.
My goodness . You excel as ever. Finding Dr Palmer (thanks to you Forrest) will hugely influence my approach. Once again Forrest (and of course Dr Rick) I’m deeply indebted to you for the work you offer - professionally and personally. Thank you.
What a wonderful interview with such great information. Thank you!!!
Wow. What a profound story of his childhood. Brought me to tears. Im also glad to hear a physician speaking about diet. I’m a nurse and find it interesting that Nutrition isn’t really taught to doctors in med school. I am looking forward to reading his book. Thank you for having him on your podcast. ❤
I'm blown away by this practitioner's empathy, what a compassionate & insightful man. The way he talked about his mom... OOF! Yikes. 😢
Then again, I was the same age that he said he was, when I went thru something similar, just 12/13 my mother having her 1st episode since she was a teen in which her mental health left her unable to function...
This was so intertesting, & I'm not usually really into this type of science w/ health, body systems, brain, etc, but holy cow, fascinating and Im so glad this info is out there
I've seen many of Chris Palmers interviews, this was probably one of the most comprehensive, exhaustive and well articulated. For sure my future reference to introduce his work to friends and family.
Best podcast in a while! So informative and innovative ❤ Thank you both ❤
Soooo good. Life-changingly good. I have treatment resistant depression and my son has treatment resistant epilepsy.
Thank you so much!
Sorry for coming out of nowhere, but you might want to look into high dose P-5-P! It makes all the difference in quite a few genetic mutations, so since both you and your son have symptoms that are greatly aided by P-5-P (it's just the active form of vit B6), I think it could be genetic and it might be worth a try, esp since it's inexpensive and easy.
I should add that SSRIs deplete B6 and if you are on SSRIs then taking B6 can be dangerous because it gives your body what it needs and raises serotonin suddenly (some people have genes that make them waste B6 so that's what caused the depression, low seizure threshold, etc). So please be careful and do research if you are still taking prescriptions.
@@koalamama2 Thank you, that's so thoughtful of you to mention. It's not really new info but is reminding me to do some more research, thanks so much!
Very interesting discussion. Thanks guys!
Absolutely fantastic episode!
Forrest, I am so pleased with your interview. You said you studied well, it showed in your questions and your ability to ask the question and then listen. Forrest, you did a really good job!! Clarity, clarity clarity…
Wonderful to find another interview with Dr Palmer. It’s so true - this is not your normal diet that you can join on Facebook- this is a lifestyle change. I consider this a forever way of eating.
Hi Forrest and Chris, thank you for your insightful and thought provoking conversation. There was many relevant takeaways from it. Many of us who have either physical and/ or mental challenges , through either (bad) luck or design can benefit from this wisdom. Chris’s back story and inspiration to teach, ( as I feel it is about sharing the knowledge) can be seen through his discipline and dedication in his field of work. So incredible isn’t to realise our diets and what we choose to sustain ourselves makes such a difference. I do love the ‘join the dots’ approach that Forrest uses, it’s a phrase I have in my toolbox….. along with’ in a row of ducks’, meaning there tends to be so many variables that need to happen to make something a success… or not. Nothing is ever an easy fix, and we all need to remember that when wanting to make better choices and changes, ‘Rome wasn’t built in a day’ theme. On a lighter note I did mentally laugh to myself that for a heavy metal rock band a great name would be the ‘Mitochondrails’. Think Kiss or Alice Cooper… I digress.
Fascinating info, great questions Forrest! This discussion caught my interest cuzz my kid sister was on Keto diet for metabolic damage from long-term use of low-dose Methotrexate, but her Dr. took her off it as she got Syncope, Tachycardia & Hypotension on keto. I love Dr. Palmer's question at the end - "Do we feel safe in the world?" Brilliant.
Yes , I have wondered as I am now a young 52 yrs of age that… being safe in the world is a major key to our ailments and what results from that systemic feeling from being, for a better word, stuck in that drive because if it. I see so many people, and no judgement here, as we all do it, trying and adapting new habits,diets and interventions, that do cost money ,energy and time…. But for me at that end of that investment , if a corrosion of unhealthy, unmeaningful or unsubstantial contact with others as humans or your own intimate tribe… is happening, well, it seems like all of the efforts are undermined and frankly just an act. It’s like pouring nutrients into a human cup with a hole in the bottom. People will either make or break you and your character and being safe mentally and physically is essential… you simply can’t bypass it and expect other variables to achieve and overcome it. It’s a human right in my book. Enough said😊 on with the show…
Dr. K from HealthyGamerGG just posted a video ~ 2 weeks ago about psychosomatic disorders. This deep dive into metabolism and mental health really complements that video nicely. Thanks for this juicy talk - I'm definitely going to look into this more! If you do a Part 2, I'll definitely tune in 😊
Really like Dr. K's stuff.
I too, have been enthralled watching his content. It’s great to have the knowledge harnessed by people who are high in emotional intelligence that can convey information which is offered in an enjoyable and relatable way. He seems like a grounded and affable man. This is the positive outcome of available help that comes with UA-cam inspired interactions…. In which I am grateful for.😌
THANK YOU SO MUCH! ❤❤❤
Thank you for spreading the word!
What a great episode. Thank u.👌🏼🫶🏻
Highly interesting - fine concluding summary. Just discovered this channel. There are lots of fine looking past videos to absorb.
Thanks again, Forrest. I saw thru the conversation that you aimed at the nutrition angle. Dr Palmer insisted on loneliness. Im interested in both areas. Maybe they could be developed further, in liaison with esch other? Thaaanks. Blessings!
This inteview is the best 🎉
Huge hope for people with severe mental health issues. And I have to add that I follow the Hansen men bc I had dramatic healing with a limbic rewiring program three years ago and I have been curious as to why it worked. I did metabolic/paleo/sauna/cold splash/mitochondria supplements/functional medicine/autoimmune diet/intermittent fasting (all keto/paleo/functional medicine modalities that address the mitochondria) for 15 years. It never worked. Then 6 months of limbic rewiring and I’m healed. 100%. All of this to say that for me is was deeper than mitochondria. It was chronic stress loop and limbic dysfunction. And the answer to that lies in mindfulness. I think I healed bc I rewired my brain to match deep meditators’ brains. Dr Hansen is on it. I’m not saying Dr Palmer isn’t on to something but there was more to it for me.
You didn't get into it, but the ketogenic diet has really evolved from the classic 4:1 to a 1.5:1 or 2:1 diet like the modified atkins diet, and is still getting similar results. Not quite as good as the higher ketone producing diet, but still quite good. Eric
Kossoff (neurologist at John's Hopkins) had a practical book on ketogenic diet for epilepsy treatment that really expmores the differences, but there are still approachable versions of the diet and even low glycemic index diets have shown to be beneficial for epilepsy, though not as strong as ketosis.
Chris has mentioned elsewhere that for mood disorders shoot for blood ketone levels of .8 mmol, and for serious psychological dusorders shoot for 1.5-3 mmol
Thank you.very informative ❤
I'm wishing I'd taken chemistry in high school! Maybe it's not too late!?
Awesome interview!! Thank you!
The part I was hoping for more explanation on, and maybe this would be a good topic for a follow up interview, is on how and why the keto diet changes the brain and research on what is changed long term. On Amazon reviews, some of the criticisms of the book were that it didn’t discuss the keto diet enough or explain it enough and didn’t offer enough references.
I loved this interview but I’m filled with questions about the keto diet. Maybe a future interview could nerd out on the science behind it. And I’m also wondering if anyone has done a vegan version of keto that benefited mental health or if all the studies have been with meat. Thank you.
Plants are not are friends. I tried the vegan w.o.e. and it made everything worst. Also, it almost killed me,
Meat is vital for good brain health. Your brain needs cholesterol! Large buoyant cholesterol. LDL is not bad. More LDL cholesterol is actually associated with a longer life/healthier life. As long as the particle sizes are large. ♥️
@@ififallithurtslea4170 thanks. I’ve been thinking of adding some things on occasion, like fish. What are your favorite sources for LDL that aren’t high in HDL?
@@tnijoo5109 the fat and meat is vital to mental well being. If you are trying a ketogenic diet for mental health you will need meat. It has VITAL nutrients in it that you can only find in meat. Plants are fiber and fiber is indigestible material. So if you’re not digesting it your also not extracting any nutrients. Fish is wonderful. Great source of Omega 3s. I would recommend fish on more than just an occasion. Most people I have known following a vegan or vegetarian diet don’t stay on it
Why your channel is not listed in the Ad - better help application ? While I was listening to you both, I got an Ad and when I got that app. and tried to register, to my surprise they have not listed your channel name, this is strange. Anyway I like your informative channel😊🙏🏻
Thank you for this interview. Been keto for a few years and carnivore for little over 2. It's helped me be on the next level. I relate to the people at the wedding:) it would never be worth mental health for bad food
Great episode!
Can't find the link to the book tho :)
Treatment resistent... I have not been on many meds. Due to kidney failure Lithium is a no no. Lithium 25% of patients treated for 5 years die by kidney failure.. In general seen a meta study treating bipolar or schizophrenia takes away 25-30 years of life expectancy due to insulin resistance and related cardiac and other deaths. So I rather have a good diet, what works without the drugs, without me using my body as a Russian Roulette, doing the common treatments. So I Am treatment resistant As I know the data of those getting the treatments in regard how much life expectancy will they loose by doing these "medications"
Has anyone here done the keto diet for 2-5 years and gone back to a normal or vegan diet, or know anyone who has? I’m so curious. Or if anyone has done a vegan version of keto?
Vegan keto is quite challenging as you're pretty much limited to nuts, seeds, green veg, avocado, tofu and small amounts of berries. When I was vegan, I ate a lot of legumes but that's not possible on keto. I found it hard to meet my caloric needs and fat intake whilst staying within the carb limit. Vegetarian keto is easier as you can then have cheese, yoghurt, cream, milk and eggs, which makes it easier to meet the protein and fat intake without the carbs.
Vegan Keto was impossible to do. I was hungry all the time, and I mean all the time. So went over my amount of carbs for the day before lunch.
@@marnasletten3988 thanks. It’s really too bad. I’m glad to know before ordering more cookbooks though!! So, 🙏 thank you!
@@tnijoo5109 your welcome.
My son has been a victim of untrained, uncaring psychiatrists that are just pill pushers! My son has suffered from schizophrenia for 15 years and has had every antipsychotic available! Finally he tried Clozapine and that helped a bit or enough to survive. I am barely learning about gut health over the Internet because not one doctor ever mentioned food or gut health🤬
Please! "Nerd out!" Loneliness has been my theme since childhood! Let's hear it!
I hope he deconstructs "loneliness." I find it dissolves.
I live in South Africa with Bipolar 1. My dr is not convinced of the keto diet as treatment and refuses to lower my dosage despite me being on keto for 3 months. Looking for a new dr now but considering just weaning myself off the meds. On lithium, epilim and olanzapine. Any suggestions will be appreciated.
Hey Gerard, please only make changes to medication in direct consultation with a medical professional. Weaning off of medication is often a very complex, challenging process for people.
The Noakes Foundation/ Nutrition Network are based in South Africa. I imagine that they can suggest to you a list of low carb Doctors who might help you? Just a suggestion. Good luck!
… as a German Biologist, Biochemist Ph D -
I almost self destroyed with Over Load and neglect
In our hyper super human Techno Sphere…
- Like a Miracle…
I joined a local Fitness Studio
- Like a Miracle ….
There were amazing wonderful persons
Doing intense Endurance Training
So - without any intention and thought,
as a physiological wreck
I started long distance Running, Marathlon, Tri Athlon
Lost 20 kg FAT
And felt like a meta Morphosis
New borne
It takes intense Endurance training to restart Physiology
And STOP all Toxxic thought and Life Style
STOP and Restart…
STOP and Restart
Like a Tumor Cell - we lost the STOP Signal