My only rejected take off was as a student pilot, my own fault. I was solo in a C172 at an untowered field, lost awareness of a plane on long final, and took the runway. When that plane declared a go around I realized my mistake and immediately rejected, but I was probably only going about 20-30 knots. I was so shook up at what might have happened I taxied back to the school and hung it up for the day.
I got my PPL in '93 just last year i was at the runup nothing was wrong but I didn't feel like going so taxied back to the ramp parked it went home. sometimes is best to just park it!
I've rejected a take-off only once (GA private pilot). My airspeed indicator didn't come "alive" as expected. After giving it a couple more seconds I pulled the throttle and got off the runway. Turns out a wasp had made a nest in the pitot tube.
I have taken off without an airspeed indication a couple of times. My instructor would cover the airspeed indicator during primary training and make me fly the pattern without it. His thinking was if you can't fly VFR without an airspeed indicator you shouldn't be flying. He had a point.
@@mattbasford6299 true, but on the other hand, if one thing failed before you took off, you don't know what else could have happened, so it is best to check everything at that point
I was an 8 hour student pilot flying out of 1T8 (very liberal calling it 2900ft) and had only ever flew a Cherokee 160. That day I was flying in an Archer II and on rollout just before liftoff it sounded and felt different so I immediately cut power and called an abort. My instructor asked why and I said it just didn't feel right. He took the controls and performed the takeoff and everything was fine. Turns out, it was just a quieter plane than the 160. I never flew the Archer after that. I am happy you are doing this series as an aborted takeoff was something we never even discussed.
Thanks Josh. I have a comment that the abort decision as described in your scenario is a bit wishy washy. In the airlines the emergency takeoff brief is specific and verbalised every takeoff. Eg “Prior to 80 knots I will reject for non normal indications, prior to V1 I will reject for engine failure, any fire or unsafe conditions. After V1 I will continue.” The key here is that it is a positive statement of what you will do, that is your decision on what you will do is already made before you take the active runway. To use in a GA operation it could as simple as “prior to taxiway G I will reject for low airspeed indications or abnormal engine operation” that is it is positive statement of what you are going to do if x happens. Another point that I feel needs refining from watching your demos is introducing stopping drills. In the airline world stopping drills are prescriptive on who does what. LHS calls STOP, closes the thrust levers, raises or checks the speed brake and selects reverse thrust, the other pilot backs up the LHS checking that everything is done and verbalises speed brake, reverse thrust actuations and if the auto brake RTO function is disabled. In GA you cause use the drill concept. The pilot should drill: call out loud STOPPING, close the throttle and apply braking and or raise the flaps if applicable to aircraft type. STOP-CHOP-BRAKE. Once remaining distance to stop is assured and safe to do advise ATC. The key here is that calling it defines your intention and changes the mindset/actions from taking off to stopping positively and applying the drill. Regards, Graeme
I love that you're doing this and I hope many people see this. And you're right, there does seem to be a disconnect in safety standards between commercial and general aviation. On a side note, my industry (health care) is slowly adapting many of the aviation safety standards and protocols to help reduce sentinel and adverse preventable events. My new training programs keep making mention to this industry. I'm happy to see that as it is much needed. Anyways, I love watching your videos. You're a highly skilled and professional aviator, as well as a pleasure to watch. Thank you.
You might want to read "The Checklist Manifesto" by Atul Gawande. He's a doctor involved in preventing what you describe and he is advocating using checklists like in aviation in the medical field.
Amy, you might be interested to look at the Clinical Human Factors Group, which is a UK based organisation (chfg.org). I'm an airline pilot and ex medic, and have found this very interesting, not to mention useful. Their resources page is great. I've spent a lot of time discussing this with a friend who's an anaesthetist, and my airline (UK based major) has incorporated studies of healthcare/aviation crossover into ground based training days for pilots and crew. There's so much scope for safety critical industries learning from each others' experience.
Lots of comments are comparing GA to airline or large jet training/ flying. I think we get in trouble here since most AC certified over 12500lbs GTOW are supposed to fly on one engine. And with all large jets, that rule is tested over and over and practiced in the sim. So,..for a B767 CA , even an entire engine failure doesnt necessarily require an RTO, hence V1, V2 etc. For a C-172, there is no V2. We cant continue and return to field. While I agree with one commenter below, that there should be better "call-outs" for GA RTO scenarios, I think its best not to co-mingle the large jet RTO mind-set with our tiny GA brethren.
Nice work.. I always do a verbal Pre-Take Off Safety brief, but I had not considered the actual location along the runway where rotation should be taking place. Up until now it was always based on rotation speed alone. Excellent point to keep in mind from now on, Thank You..
I want to acknowledge that, prior to seeing this video, I actually just implemented this exact procedure with my CFI on our last flight, which was only my 4th flight of my training. I had told my CFI that I was concerned that "what if you were to pass out at some point?...I would have to manage this aircraft by myself." He agreed and so we added the "abort procedure" including the point by which we would reject the take off. I had added this to "my" pre-take off checklist. Prior to that point I only had 3.8 hours total flight time. I also want to acknowledge that watching your videos has helped my grow as a student pilot enormously! Thank you!
Dude your Big Bear aborted takeoff was quick thinking. After watching that video I always assume rejecting the takeoff is "Plan A" and a completing the takeoff is "Plan B". Same logic applies with go-arounds/landings. Nice video!
i dont mean to be so off topic but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..? I was dumb lost my login password. I appreciate any help you can give me
@Jermaine Wade thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process atm. Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
I was lucky enough to have an instructor who used to fly skydive drops. That plane (C180) had suffered much abuse and one day climbing out at 450ft AGL with 3 divers on, the crank snapped. He got it on the ground in the neighbor's field and everyone walked away; once his knees stopped knocking! EFATO (Engine failure after take off) is on the EASA syllabus and we drilled that regularly. He would pull the power at 700ft and we had better get light in the seat and get to best glide right quick or I got "counseled". Recovery was at 500ft. My "rejected T/O" drill took place at 50ft AGL. Did it twice as I didn't get down fast enough the first time. It made a massive difference to have actually done it. I highly recommend any CFI to include rejected T/O on the runway and 50ft EFATO (on a long enough runway) in their course!
I learned this lesson the hard way just 2 weeks ago... Just like he mentions in the video, my son and I were headed to Oshkosh, and we were heavy with all of our camping gear. We were easily within POH weight limits, but nonetheless we were still heavy. We had departed our home field in northeast Texas shortly before noon on 07/24 and landed about 3 hrs later in central Missouri for a fuel stop. After fueling up and using the restroom, we got back in the plane and prepared for the second leg of our journey. Well, turns out it was a VERY HOT day, and it was now around 3pm in the afternoon... and DA was around 3300ft! We started our takeoff roll... the rotation speed for my plane is 80mph... but I wasn't able to get past ~73mph! About 2/3 down the runway I realized that our bird did NOT want to fly! So I chopped the throttle and aborted the takeoff; I began braking hard, but not too hard so as not to tip the nose down on my taildragger; and at the same time I had to stay on the rudder carefully to stay lined up with the center line. My decision to abort the takeoff was made suddenly and without warning, of course, and I succeeded in scaring the crap out of my 16yr old son! He was visibly shaken for quite a while after this incident. In retrospect, I AM pleased that my instinct kicked in and that I aborted the takeoff when I did, because if I hadn't I might not be typing this right now. But the hard lesson I learned was that I should have made the decision to abort MUCH earlier than I did! Why? Because I ran out of runway. :( Fortunately, at the end of the pavement was about 75 yards of very well-manicured, flat, smooth, grass... and in that tense moment I did not hesitate to use it! I needed the extra room to safely slow the plane down, and I knew the soft grass would help me do that. And it did. When finally slowed to a safe speed, I let the tail swing around, and we just sat there a moment in silence, thankful that we were no longer moving, and that nothing terrible had happened. I added some power, and we taxied right back onto the runway and then back to the FBO. The only thing damaged was my ego! But again, it could have turned out much, much worse... The rest of our trip to Oshkosh 2021 was thankfully undramatic and uneventful, as far as the flying part goes. But from this experience, I am now a better pilot. I now take the time to study runway diagrams very closely and pick a "no-go" point which, if I reach on takeoff roll but am not yet airborne, I'm aborting the takeoff. This series of videos is absolutely wonderful, and I look forward to watching all of them. And some of them, probably several times! Thanks for this video series, and your efforts to improve safety in general aviation... is very, very much appreciated!
When flying gliders the rejected takeoff on tow is something we always practice. It can get messy if the tow plane has a n engine problem and the glider pilot being towed is not ready for that scenario. Therefore it is something we always practice when instructing students.
Only one rejected take-off "for real" for me. The engine did not create the thrust that I felt comfortable with. I rejected the take-off and rolled to the end, returned to the run-up to exercise the engine again. After the second run-up; I just didn't feel good with the mags, called it day and went and had an adult beverage. Turned out to be a bad mag. This was great Josh. Thanks!
GREAT video. The other thing several instructors of mine never mentioned was planning for max weight takeoffs in min climb conditions on min-length runways. In 2005, it was late (2 AM), I was tired, and we had one more short hop of about 50 nm to reach our destination. The POH said we had enough runway, but the aircraft was old, so I added the 50-foot takeoff distance to the no-obstacle landing distance and it was about 500 feet shorter than the airfield. So, I talked things over with my passenger, who was also a pilot, but not type-rated in the aircraft I was flying. After about 20 minutes of figuring out the best way to approach the issue, we agreed that I'd monitor airspeed and call 'Rotate' when we reached Vr, while he'd call 'abort' when we reach the point where we only have the no-obstacle landing distance left. I called Vr first, or simultaneous, we'd continue. If he called abort first, we'd abort. Yes, it worked. I did a good runup at full throttle with the cowl flaps wide open. I leaned it to peak RPM, watching the engine gauges carefully, letting them settle for about 15 seconds, and released the brakes. We hit Vr about three seconds before we hit the no-obstacle landing distance remaining point. So, yes, it worked. But it didn't work well, as we could have had a sick engine, reached Vr before the distance remaining point, and made the mistake of taking it airborne. Put simply, it was a solution, but certainly not the best one. In fact, I was overthinking it, as Section 5 has a zero-obstacle ground roll chart. Given the inputs, our ground roll should have been 880 feet to Vr. The simplest solution would have been to call "distance" about 100 yards before the 1,000 foot point. What I think would work best for general aviation, however, is a table or chart with all inputs including density altitude, T/O weight, and headwind component resulting in two outputs: 1. Velocity (kts) 2. Time (seconds) ...for every 500' interval (500, 1000, 1500 etc.) where the velocity is below Vr. These distance increments are best, as they're easily identifiable on most airfields. Where they're not, the pilot can use both Velocity and Time to ascertain proper acceleration, the same as the big boys do. If you don't reach that velocity by that distance and/or elapsed time, abort.
As an airline pilot we have a dedicated rejected takeoff checklist. We are required to do a rejected takeoff during our check rides and recurrent. Had to perform one cause my FOs seat flew back and he wasn’t in a position to take the aircraft. It’s definitely something we all should be thinking about. Love what your doing keep up the good work.
I did one coming out of Lubbock Executive in 2016 taking my Navion cross country. Hard lesson to learn. After rotation, I only got about a 100fpm rate of climb, saw the powerlines at the end of the runway coming quick, and did exactly what you did at Big Bear.
After diverting to Bimini, Bahamas due to T/S, I waited while a monster downpour passed by. Unbeknownst to me, the residual low pressure left in my static ports and lines sucked in a few droplets of water. After the storm and under sunny skies, I back taxied to runway 28 and began my take-off roll. airspeed acted weird and came up to 60kts quicker than usual. I kept scanning it faster and more than normal and realized the needle stopped moving. IMMEDIATE power chop, brakes and control back pressure on the elevator. I always noticed on your vids that u always announce your about plan. I still forget to announce it every single time, but in the back of my mind I always have reflexes ready for the power chop thank for that experience in the Bahamas and your vids. Awsum video and great series!!!! Thanks! Mike L
So glad to see this type of training. Had a rejected take off earlier this year. Rolling down the runway and the airspeed indicator counted up but slowly. Plane kept accelerating like normal but airspeed didn't match what the plane felt like. Shut it down right before the plane was ready to fly and the airspeed indicator stuck at 60kts. A&P found a mud dauber nest in the pitot head.
Excellent. There was more than one incident as a student where I pushed the envelop of getting airborne before the end of the runway (on touch-n-goes). One was during a 2nd supervised solo after landing too far down the runway. I really think my instructor should have said something to me about that. Another was where I didn't quite get the throttle all the way in (on a slightly over powered 172). Way passed the point of no return I noticed I wasn't climbing as I should and pushed the throttle the rest of the way in. My first instinct should have been to abort waaaay before that.
This hits close to home for me. I had a close call the day after practicing short takeoffs and landings. I knew where my take off point was solo, but I had a passenger of 250lbs more. I knew my roll would take longer. I was in a Cherokee 140, on a 3600 foot untowered airport with a line of trees at the end. I began take off like normal. I noticed that I didn't have as much thrust as before, but I attributed it to the 250lbs more load. I reached my abort point , which like your dad, was too far down the runway. I killed the power, pushed the nose down, began breaking and ground effect lifted me off the runway. At that moment, my only thought was how much runway I had left... I didn't think I could get the plane down in time so I hit power again and focused on the stall buzer nosing down to increase speed then bringing the nose up till I heard stall buzzer... Done over and over until clear of tree line. After reaching pattern altitude, I began investigating what had happened. I discovered that while checking the mags, I over shot the both switch. I heard/felt one click and didn't visually confirm that I was on both. Once I put the mag to both, our thrust sucked us into the seat. Lesson learned. Might be a good AQP item to simulate. Especially since I couldn't hear any difference in the planes engine performance.
I had a very good instructor. He introduced rejected take offs after rotation and a altitude of abt 30-50 ft. Yes, we had a long runway but it didnt take much. I learned a lot from him.
I was off to do my long solo cross country for my private. but, when I advanced the power to full, my nose wheel wasn’t sounding right so I rejected the takeoff. Best lesson I have ever learned. Thank you for the awesome video. Looking forward to more
Great job. Was in the second row of passenger seats on a 727 going ATL to LGA and the center engine gave a shudder just after rotation. The crew did a perfect TRO and I took the next flight out. It was the first of a series of engine failures in 727 and MD-80 birds One poor woman was killed a few weeks later at JAX when a rotor vane entered the cabin on a fail.
I was there the day that bonanza crashed. Horrible sight but taught me a lot. A few weeks after the crash I was also taking off from corona and the airspeed indicator wasn’t indicating the actual speed the plane seemed to be going. I rejected the takeoff and later found out there was something wrong with the pitot tube. That crash was hard to see but made me a better pilot. Thanks for the great video josh!
Rejected a takeoff once as a solo student pilot because the fuel pressure gauge dropped to zero on the roll and I figured better safe than sorry. It was a wonky gauge. I was lucky to have had a CFI who made me brief rejected takeoffs (usually framed as engine failures) before every flight in the runup area. However, I learned about abort *points* from watching this channel! Great video as always.
Bravo, good stuff! I must have had a good CFI (I did). We never physically practiced an RTO but he built into my head two things: 1) Always have as many outs as possible, and that applies to TOs;. and 2) Never retract the gear if you still have useable runway. I watch a lot of tubers retract the gear immediately upon experiencing a positive rate. Realizing you want to make the plane as efficient as possible for a climb out, it doesn't make sense to me to lift the gear after only using 1,000 feet of a 5,000 foot runway until you are past the point of no return. It may be only a few seconds difference but, to me, it could also be the difference in experiencing a successful and safe RTO.
For what it’s worth, this is something I learned in gliders over 30 years ago, only they were called rope-break drills. Given that the appropriate action for LOTOT changes as one accelerates and then climbs, I decided for myself that before each takeoff, I would, based on wind speed and direction, runway in use, etc. identify what I would do at 0-100’ AGL; 100-400’AGL, and from. 400’ to pattern altitude (800’ AGL) if the towline snapped. This gave me a certain peace of mind having developed “a plan” before leaving the bosom of Mother Earth.
I have had 3. Fouled plug (probably idling too rich after runup waiting to take off) with my family in the plane. Solo flight when a scat tube came loose and reduced power. Last one I was only on one mag during my seaplane endorsement (I think that I bumped into the key).
At my flight school, we did Reject take-of, before the Vr and also after Vr airborne whit RWY available. But in this video, I learn something new, to choose a metric point or visual point on the RWY to make that decision. Thank you! I'm Loving this new mentality in GA.
I had two aborted takes offs in a J3 Cub back to back in 2014, it was my first flight taking my father in-law. I used a irrigation pivot as my go/no go lift off point. This was a home runway deal. Never gave it much thought until now, that’s how to still with a plan. It’s not a SIM! Great Video.
Oddly enough (after watching this) I’ve had an incident where on a touch and go the engine never returned back up to full power. I had enough power to get airborne, but not to climb or really do anything. I was under pressure to clear the runway as there was another plane on final coming in behind me, so I opted to proceed. I’ve known for years I should have shut it down right there. In the end, it worked out as I flew on, the engine slowly gained power back up to normal levels. I had a feeling I knew what was wrong as another partner had described to me the exact problem he experienced not the week or two before. The issue wound up being a broken spring on the carb, not allowing the carb to open up correctly. Definitely something to par and learn to be a good judge of...
Don't underestimate reading the windsock wrong... I've done that before. I came to my senses before taking off, but it really highlights how easy it is to make mistakes you would otherwise think you'd never make. (Who the hell reads a windsock wrong? Me, it turns out...)
Yndostrui did the same. Read the windsock wrong and gave wind correction (aileron input) in the wrong direction. I almost flipped over when i rotated... it can easily happen when you are suffering from fatigue (was an early morning solo flight during my flight training)
Nice vid Josh. I really like what you're trying to do here. Bravo. I had a rejected after take off (like you) once, with a passenger, as a newly qualified private pilot. Very sobering, and my return to the runway looked very much like yours. And it was all improvised as you said, nothing in the training for that. It was a faulty stall warner, that just didn't stop sounding in a PA28. I do think as light aircraft pilots though, we're more aware of the performance variations, than maybe a commercial jet pilot. That seemed to be the case with your students too, who spotted the failure well before the defined point. I've always found it difficult to find a defined point on the airfields I fly from. Quite often, they're shorter fields, with not many intersecting runways, and taxiways, and no other clear markers.
I departed once (172 with 2 adults and 2 kids) from Big Bear years ago. The almost full load and high altitude made for a VERY long takeoff roll. Then there is the slow and shallow climb out over water. I kid you not it was the scariest takeoff I ever did (and everything was normal!). I was sure glad I got some high altitude training at this airport before doing it myself.
Not a pilot, but was an active skydiver in the 80's. This reminded me of an aborted take off in a Beech D-18. I was in the copilot seat. We had a cross wind that I don't think the drop zone staff realized when they told us what runway to use. We started all the way over on one side of the runway, but as soon as the tail lifted, we almost instantly drifted to the other side of the runway. The pilot IMMEDIATELY shut it down, but with an aircraft that big we had a lot of momentum that the pilot was having a hard time controlling, and we drifted off the runway and ground-looped. (I can still visualize the dirt-clods and gravel blowing across the windscreen.) Fortunately, we didn't put a wheel in a hole or anything like that and the aircraft came to rest without further incident. Of course, being filled with a bunch of us silly skydivers, one jumper in the back shouted up 'do you want us to push it back on the runway?' The pilot's response was 'No you dummies, just get out of the damn plane!' We all hurried out then... 😉
I was in about 30hrs training asked CFI to do a rejected takeoff, I want to understand everything that goes with it. We both kept forgetting to do it until lesson was over. Well Corna hit and put a holt on flying. When over with this pandemic we are doing it for sure. I think it should be mandatory to learn.
Not a pilot but if flying as a passenger I would want the Pic to be aware of this. Great thing you and Dan are doing. It will save lives. Maybe yours or mine.
Hi ! It’s awesome what you are doing. My instructor did me some aboarding practice time to time but not using the trotte because the student can see it and then think “ho yes this is what he wants to do it” but instead he pressed very smoothly on the breakers. That makes a better feeling of the airplane. But the most important is the briefing before takeoff : beeing in the mood of “no, we won’t take off if...” and also “what do I need to do when I am aboarding”
Good video. At our school we do set an abort take off point as well before each take off and mentally go over the emergency procedures during take off so you're mentally prepared.
I had a rejected takeoff once in my Tripacer. I'm a low time pilot and It surprised the heck out of me when I was ready to call out "airspeed alive", but it wasnt (pitot tube flap not opening). It still took a moment to process, respond and shut throttle. Since then I call out "Potatoes". As I roll on throttle i count One potato, two potato, three potato. If I'm not flying by four potatoes, I'll shut it down. Add potatoes if loaded. Try it!
Great topic! The abort at a predetermined point approach would be appropriate for situations involving high density altitude operations and maximum weight departures. For everyday flying there are some other considerations that are also important. I call them “Sight and Sound”. When I pull out on the runway and advance the throttle, I glance at the tachometer to see if the engine is producing the power that it normally does. In my airplane (172M) that is 2325 to 2350 rpm. If the engine is not producing the usual power at full throttle, I abort. If the rpm peaks and starts decreasing it is also time to abort. When I fly a low wing aircraft that utilizes fuel pumps rather than gravity feed for fuel flow, I also look at the Fuel Pressure gauge prior to rotation. If the gauge is not at the normal indication or, worse yet, falling towards zero, then I abort the takeoff. Finally, and this is the big advantage to having your own airplane or flying the same airplane all the time, if the engine does not sound right, like it normally does, when you apply full throttle at takeoff, it is time to abort. It is far better to address these issues on the ground than to deal with them at 200 to 300 feet of altitude off the end of the runway. Trust me on this one. Sight and Sound.
Great demonstration and thank for explaining in depth that just because you may have several hundred or thousands of feet of additional runway, if you're not in the air when you should be, abort and find out why.
My only "real" aborted takeoff was in a Champ that I was renting about 20 years ago. My preflight was probably not as thorough as it should have been because I missed a loose fairing strip on top of the wing by the windshield. When I was around 15 feet off the ground that thing started banging around. To me, it sounded as if the motor was backfiring. I immediately chopped the throttle and zigzagged my way to a stop after a pretty "solid" landing...dang heel brakes! Thanks for all the videos Josh. Amazing content and well presented!
George (Farris, at A&B) gave me some mock 'engine failure on takeoff' scenarios during my pre-solo checkout. I wasn't expecting them at all and did not do well on the first one, but he kept running me through them to drill down the instinct of "push forward" instead of the intuitive "pull back". I really didn't do much more practical training on them other than my instructor having my audibly talk through my abort plan during taxi, but I still think about those takeoffs at KHYI whenever I take off now
Thanks for this one. I never recall having this discussed during my flight training many years ago. Another discussion point might be to cover what to do when you do take off but sense problems shortly thereafter. Very early during my training in a C150, after multiple solo T&G's with less than full tanks I had a sputtering engine just after lift off. I recall the instant thought about touching back down, but knew I was too far, so I climbed out fairly flat until the engine returned to normal and then executed a terrible full-stop downwind successfully but ugly. My point here is that I would say more often than not, after you have lifted off of the runway, it is rarely a good idea to set back down unless you decide within a very few seconds. Be Careful Out There.
Only rejected T/O that I ever had was when I was a solo student. The plane rolled about 3 feet then suddenly stopped. Turns out that tail tiedown rope worked really well. Was very embarresed but I learned to be MUCH more through on preflight after that.
Thanks Josh, its important to build in the what-ifs into our daily chores. As a past safety officer for my fire department, I always adapted other professions' safety. The fire service many years ago went to the sterile cockpit (crew compartment) while responding to calls to ensure our safety and arrival.
First Off: Gig’Em Aggies. Glad your representing ‘Ol Army in such a positive way. Second: I am very thankful for your video series. I will be applying this to my Aero club.
Thanks Josh for all of your videos. They are incredibly interesting and important topics. I’m 61, got my license at 21 and I’m now just getting back in the air after family, profession and kids distracted me for a time. I was lucky enough to train in Aspen, learning all sorts of emergency situations, so finding you online at this stage has reconfirmed the importance of my initial training. As you point out, awareness is everything and having a predetermined plan is essential. Looking forward to watching and learning more from your flying experience.
Kinda surprise that hearing people never talked about it, flight training I had from private though CFI we had thousands of briefing for this and for every single take off we review what we do we do if there is a case anything went wrong during takeoff roll or after lift off, and pretty much whole multi engine is about this, one good habit for this is always knowing how long the runway is and performance calculation and also use google map to precheck what’s surrounding the airport and runway where we can put down the aircraft if runway is not long enough, good video!
I only fly models, rc, but a plane is a plane. Thanks for sharing your knowledge. The only time I have experienced a rejected takeoff was coming home from Greenland last year. Just before expected rotation. Computer glitch in the cockpit. Second time around we got to look down at Sønder Strømfjord. But the airbus spent an extra day in Copenhagen 😊
I usually work an rto into any training session where I'm doing multiple touch and goes. I do full stops, stop and go, touch and go, RTO, and low approaches. All useful to stay proficient on. One thing I've never done is re-land the plane. I think once you take off you can't actually reject that take off (unless you have a flux capacitor on board maybe). To be clear... I do this at an untowered field.
I've aborted take off roll once. It happend in my second flight after getting PPL. My cockpit filled with smoke at 55kt. (C152) I'm glad that I did it.
This is why, even if one isn't going to become an airline pilot, I advocate that everyone accumulate ratings and training as much as possible as if one will enter the airlines in the future. For example, I did do a rejected takeoff in single engines once during my PP training, but those were routine during my multi-engine private and commercial training. Takeoff briefings were also standard during multi training, and then I wondered why we didn't do that all the time when flying single engines. I would also say that shutting down engines in the air in a twin, while it's not the same, helped me get over the possible fear of that happening in a single and immediately thinking (out of fright) that there are no options for the emergency. That's similar to engaging in spin training for CFI, where you feel a bit more confident in getting out of one as well as recognizing the incipient characteristics prior to a full stall, as compared to just flying with spin awareness knowledge from a book as a private pilot, that you probably forget after the checkride is over.
This is good training. We use time as a metric on the B777. If we don't have 80 KIAS within 20 seconds then we abort. The 20 seconds is a conservative number that covers heavy weights and high elevation airports. I normally see 80 KIAS by 15 seconds or less.
Very nice, Josh and Dan! I agree with how you put this at the end: rather than introducing new additional rules, a different mindset across GA can make a huge positive impact. Things can go wrong, and we must be ready to recognize when that happens, and respond appropriately. A take-off plan is an important element for that. Best regards, Martin
My examiner gave me a rejected takeoff during my PPL skills test which I'd never covered before. It was a great experience and I executed it well! However what I take away from this is to ensure I set my own predefined plan for every takeoff roll and go out and practice it for myself..... Once I can get the opportunity to get back out and fly that is...
As a student pilot, really enjoying this series. Part of our pre-flight checklist is to discuss an abort plan. So hopefully this type of AQP training will take hold in general aviation.
Aborted a takeoff off of a grass strip 2 weeks ago because I caught a big tailwind gust, but I was already about 15 feet up! Had to land it back down and get her stopped. Good preparation was an absolute must in executing safely! I've got a video of it if you would like it.
Aborted several takeoffs in my time for everything from no airspeed all the way up to engine failures in twins. That being said, I can appreciate the training to try and get people to think about RTOs. I do have a couple of thinking points here though: As far as a takeoff briefing, being spring loaded for an abort is simply required when flying airplanes. Before every departure I mentally prepare myself that this one is really the takeoff where something is gonna go wrong. This is really the one that I'm gonna lose the engine or lose electrical power or whatever. Prepare your mind for the abort or the upwind engine failure. That reduces the startle effect of something going wrong. Surprise causes the human mind to freeze up and in those precious moments you're losing speed and energy. On that note, waiting to reject a takeoff until your pre-determined abort point is not the correct way to think about when to abort. It is true that your pre-determined point should be a factor in deciding whether or not to abort; however if the decision is made to abort a takeoff before the distance is reached then the abort should be made immediately. It preserves runway length for your roll-out. Personally, the second I felt the power reduction from the "sick engine" the power would come back and the brakes would be applied. That all being said, don't think I'm trying to Monday morning quarterback any of what you're doing here. You're totally right that RTOs aren't really trained until you get to the ATP level and then it feels like that's all we do in the sim. I'm totally on board with training it, but we need to train our students with the mindset of "abort now, think later" vs "engine is running kinda rough but eh, I haven't made my point yet so I'll continue until then". Enjoyed the video as I have for years. Continue to make awesome content!
I would say the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Most low time student pilots don't have enough experience to even know what low power feels like. So they need an easily referenced decision point where they are calling it off for sure. It could be a stopwatch, or a fixed point on the runway. But it has to be more concrete than "felt the power reduction from the engine". Of course, if an obvious problem comes up before the predetermined point, then the PIC should abort. But the main problem and teaching point here seems to be getting GA pilots to recognize that take off is failing while there is still enough time to do something other than crash.
One of the most insidious yet shocking events that causes a need to RTO is runaway down elevator trim to limit caused by the autopilot left engaged after the pre-takeoff autopilot checklist testing. As the aircraft reaches flying speed, down trim makes the elevator too heavy to allow lifting the nose (and as speed keeps increasing gets even heavier), making takeoff impossible. Every pilot benefits from practicing how to detect, and then reject the takeoff after reaching and maybe passing flying speed.
I have been using the 50/70 rule. If your not at 70% take off speed at the runway 50% mark abort/reject the take-off! I had just learned the thumb rule when I tried to take my parents for a flight out of a small field and actually aborted the take off.
Great video. I've never practiced rejected takeoffs. But I will very soon. Yesterday I practiced direct crosswind takeoffs & landings taking off from 9R at KOPF with winds 17016G26kt..
These videos are really good especially watching while going through my ratings and still been early on in learning to be a pilot they are really helpful and full of info that I can use to improve and better my training and skills.
Looking at another comment... reminded me. YES bugs/wasps will plug your airspeed in a hurry! I had this happen too, after airborne, I sit my 56’ C-172 down due to no airspeed, a bug had plugged the pitot tube. I didn’t have a cover, which increased chances I’m sure.
I really admire Dan for his efforts in promoting this AQP concept, and congratulations to you for the extremely well-produced and educational videos demonstrating the concepts. I hope that it will make a difference!
I my be late to the website, but years ago while flying a group of high school students in a demo flight for my aviation science class in a C-172, right at rotation the engine began to stumble and lose rpms. I set the aircraft down and notified the tower of the power loss. As I rolled clear of the active I began to check what might have caused the power loss and saw the mixture knob backed out from full rich. When I advanced the mixture I realized the friction lock that held it in position wasn’t working and I had to physically hold it in to keep it from backing out. That’s one more item I now check in my run up procedures.
What are your thought on 0.7xVr by 1/2 runway length? Seems like you prefer to pick your abort point based on performance in POH. Do you apply any buffer? Do you use 50ft obstacle roll numbers from the POH? Thanks Josh for continued great content.
Hi Pete. Excellent! This is exactly the way we teach this in Europe. We usually don’t have 1000ft markers on small airfields, but we almost always have 1/2 runway signs.
I always brief for what to do during a rejected takeoff or engine failure on the runway (throttle idle, keep the plane on the ground, full breaks) during my takeoff briefing, but ive never considered setting a specific abort point on the runway. I will start doing this now, thanks!
RTO is always apart of my take-off briefing. Come close to a reject once. Right prop was slightly overspeeding, my first reaction was to reject but my instructor canned it and we continued. I was confused with his call to continue but in hind sight we might of over ran the runway if we did reject.
Really nice point for a visual marker for the no-go, but a simulated reject when you know it will happen and look for it in my opinion is very different than not expecting it at all., let alone an actual emergency. After all as a PIC there are many vital tasks to do during normal procedures. In my training I have had numerous unexpected engine "failures" by the CFI, and compared to the ones I expected, my performance and execution of the maneuvers were lower than that of the practice runs. It's just different not expecting something like this at all to happen for sure. Anyway this is a golden idea for the AQP to be tailored to GA and is something we shall all see, train and give our best to be proficient at. Keep up the work Aviation101 and everyone on the project! P.S It would be most beneficial if all those things are tied together with the existing IFT curriculum.
Good stuff! I think about a rejected takeoff every time. The ends of my runways are the top of a mesa and that's pretty motivating. But... I don't think I'm that serious about it. I've got 6,500 and 6,704' depending which runway I'm leaving from and the takeoff roll / 50' obstacle numbers are 875' and 1,370'. (no 50' obstacles, just a long steep drop off). Density altitude can be pretty high and the wind can sometimes swing to your tail from a direct crosswind. My "thinking" is out loud, ie. It's a verbal callout during the roll (if not off by the 1,000 marker then reject the takeoff) but I don't know if I believe me. I'll be a little more observant of what I'm doing and thinking about during a takeoff.
Hi Josh, I'd like to propose an idea similar to this procedure. What if the CFI sets the power he/she desires(could be full power or a reduced setting) and calls out "TO power set", then it's up to the student to determine if the airplane is performing as it should, at the abort point, and make the go/nogo decision. I really like this series, specially because I'm considering becoming a CFI when things start to get back to normal. Keep up the good work.
Great info. This hits home for me. Late last year I finished some rather extensive repairs on my Stinson 108. I had not flow that particular type taildragger in a several years. ( I did do myself the favor by going up with a CFI in a 170 just prior to this event) I performed a high speed taxi roll just shy of flying speed to reacquaint myself with the airplane and final leak checks. In the time from this high speed taxi and leak check complete, the winds had changed. Now the active runway had a slight (less than 4kts) Tail Wind! I considered that, maybe not as much as I would like to think. On roll out and then lift off the airplane did not "feel" right flying. I was maybe 50" or so with well over 6,00' remaining and decided to "put her back down". I normally have my point picked out. But I was already in the air and had the where with all to abort. All in all, the issue was the tail wind and a right wing that a tad heavy. All that is fixed and she is flying beautifully now. My take away is this should be every pilots REACTION, this needs to be taught in primary training. Thanks Josh and sorry to be long winded. (Pardon the pun)
Great video! It reminded me of a time in 1971 with a rented 150 I took my cousin for a ride. I was toped off he weighed 275 I weighed 170 and a very hot August day at Canton, oh CAK had plenty of runway. I was never taught aborting a takeoff. I was 3/4 the way. down the runway when I felt it lift off. I knew I had a problem,I hope your video today taught pilots something. It sure snapped my memories back aways. You are a tremendous CFI. Fly safe
Its easy to forget steps in aviation, especially when you don't train for them. Thank you so much for making this video. Hope the people who need so see this do.
Luckily my are school in there integrated course practices RTO's in a simulator but before every flight we recite a RTO briefing just to make sure that we are aware. The biggest issue that we have is runway lengths therefore we are not able to select a abort point. That said it is a very important skill to have.
Ooh! I've done this! ASI was inoperative due to having been outside in a thunderstorm (pitot sock was on it, but everything was so wet and humid that we're thinking condensation formed in the line). ASI didn't come alive before the wheels broke the ground. Pulled the power back, settled back to the runway, and called out a rejected takeoff to CTAF. Complete non-event. Okay, now to watch the video!
Just added “abort point” to my pre takeoff brief. Thanks Josh
My only rejected take off was as a student pilot, my own fault. I was solo in a C172 at an untowered field, lost awareness of a plane on long final, and took the runway. When that plane declared a go around I realized my mistake and immediately rejected, but I was probably only going about 20-30 knots. I was so shook up at what might have happened I taxied back to the school and hung it up for the day.
I got my PPL in '93 just last year i was at the runup nothing was wrong but I didn't feel like going so taxied back to the ramp parked it went home. sometimes is best to just park it!
I've rejected a take-off only once (GA private pilot). My airspeed indicator didn't come "alive" as expected. After giving it a couple more seconds I pulled the throttle and got off the runway. Turns out a wasp had made a nest in the pitot tube.
Had the same thing happen to me last year. Was definitely a reminder of why briefing aborted takeoffs every time.
I have taken off without an airspeed indication a couple of times. My instructor would cover the airspeed indicator during primary training and make me fly the pattern without it. His thinking was if you can't fly VFR without an airspeed indicator you shouldn't be flying. He had a point.
@@mattbasford6299 true, but on the other hand, if one thing failed before you took off, you don't know what else could have happened, so it is best to check everything at that point
Partial panel wasn't a part of my private training or final check ride. That was 10 years ago. It's not apart of my flight reviews now either.
Cool story. Have you used the pitot tube cover?
I was an 8 hour student pilot flying out of 1T8 (very liberal calling it 2900ft) and had only ever flew a Cherokee 160. That day I was flying in an Archer II and on rollout just before liftoff it sounded and felt different so I immediately cut power and called an abort. My instructor asked why and I said it just didn't feel right. He took the controls and performed the takeoff and everything was fine. Turns out, it was just a quieter plane than the 160. I never flew the Archer after that. I am happy you are doing this series as an aborted takeoff was something we never even discussed.
But the important point here:
If something had been wrong, you just saved two lives
Good call though!
Great decision. Better to be on the ground wishing you were in the air, than in the air wishing you were on the ground.
you made the right call, you didnt feel comfortable so abort and like someone said if there was a problem you saved lives
Thanks Josh. I have a comment that the abort decision as described in your scenario is a bit wishy washy. In the airlines the emergency takeoff brief is specific and verbalised every takeoff. Eg “Prior to 80 knots I will reject for non normal indications, prior to V1 I will reject for engine failure, any fire or unsafe conditions. After V1 I will continue.” The key here is that it is a positive statement of what you will do, that is your decision on what you will do is already made before you take the active runway. To use in a GA operation it could as simple as “prior to taxiway G I will reject for low airspeed indications or abnormal engine operation” that is it is positive statement of what you are going to do if x happens. Another point that I feel needs refining from watching your demos is introducing stopping drills. In the airline world stopping drills are prescriptive on who does what. LHS calls STOP, closes the thrust levers, raises or checks the speed brake and selects reverse thrust, the other pilot backs up the LHS checking that everything is done and verbalises speed brake, reverse thrust actuations and if the auto brake RTO function is disabled. In GA you cause use the drill concept. The pilot should drill: call out loud STOPPING, close the throttle and apply braking and or raise the flaps if applicable to aircraft type. STOP-CHOP-BRAKE. Once remaining distance to stop is assured and safe to do advise ATC. The key here is that calling it defines your intention and changes the mindset/actions from taking off to stopping positively and applying the drill. Regards, Graeme
" To solve a problem you have to recognize you have a problem ".
Excellent training. RTO is something the GA pilot just doesn’t think about as much as we should. Good job!
I love that you're doing this and I hope many people see this. And you're right, there does seem to be a disconnect in safety standards between commercial and general aviation.
On a side note, my industry (health care) is slowly adapting many of the aviation safety standards and protocols to help reduce sentinel and adverse preventable events. My new training programs keep making mention to this industry. I'm happy to see that as it is much needed.
Anyways, I love watching your videos. You're a highly skilled and professional aviator, as well as a pleasure to watch. Thank you.
You might want to read "The Checklist Manifesto" by Atul Gawande. He's a doctor involved in preventing what you describe and he is advocating using checklists like in aviation in the medical field.
This cannot be better said. I already love this series. Thank you, Dan, and Flightchops for making the GA pilots aware.
Amy, you might be interested to look at the Clinical Human Factors Group, which is a UK based organisation (chfg.org). I'm an airline pilot and ex medic, and have found this very interesting, not to mention useful. Their resources page is great. I've spent a lot of time discussing this with a friend who's an anaesthetist, and my airline (UK based major) has incorporated studies of healthcare/aviation crossover into ground based training days for pilots and crew. There's so much scope for safety critical industries learning from each others' experience.
I can say that as an aircraft engineer too. GA has a lot to answer for in my opinion
I love dans head in the back looking so intently on what’s happening lol
Lots of comments are comparing GA to airline or large jet training/ flying. I think we get in trouble here since most AC certified over 12500lbs GTOW are supposed to fly on one engine. And with all large jets, that rule is tested over and over and practiced in the sim. So,..for a B767 CA , even an entire engine failure doesnt necessarily require an RTO, hence V1, V2 etc. For a C-172, there is no V2. We cant continue and return to field. While I agree with one commenter below, that there should be better "call-outs" for GA RTO scenarios, I think its best not to co-mingle the large jet RTO mind-set with our tiny GA brethren.
Nice work.. I always do a verbal Pre-Take Off Safety brief, but I had not considered the actual location along the runway where rotation should be taking place. Up until now it was always based on rotation speed alone. Excellent point to keep in mind from now on, Thank You..
I want to acknowledge that, prior to seeing this video, I actually just implemented this exact procedure with my CFI on our last flight, which was only my 4th flight of my training. I had told my CFI that I was concerned that "what if you were to pass out at some point?...I would have to manage this aircraft by myself." He agreed and so we added the "abort procedure" including the point by which we would reject the take off. I had added this to "my" pre-take off checklist. Prior to that point I only had 3.8 hours total flight time. I also want to acknowledge that watching your videos has helped my grow as a student pilot enormously! Thank you!
Dude your Big Bear aborted takeoff was quick thinking. After watching that video I always assume rejecting the takeoff is "Plan A" and a completing the takeoff is "Plan B". Same logic applies with go-arounds/landings. Nice video!
i dont mean to be so off topic but does any of you know a trick to get back into an Instagram account..?
I was dumb lost my login password. I appreciate any help you can give me
@Emilio Langston instablaster =)
@Jermaine Wade thanks for your reply. I got to the site through google and Im in the hacking process atm.
Looks like it's gonna take quite some time so I will get back to you later with my results.
@Jermaine Wade it did the trick and I actually got access to my account again. I am so happy!
Thanks so much you saved my ass :D
@Emilio Langston You are welcome =)
This content is great...I can’t wait to see more! Thanks for promoting safety in General Aviation, we need more of it!
I was lucky enough to have an instructor who used to fly skydive drops. That plane (C180) had suffered much abuse and one day climbing out at 450ft AGL with 3 divers on, the crank snapped. He got it on the ground in the neighbor's field and everyone walked away; once his knees stopped knocking!
EFATO (Engine failure after take off) is on the EASA syllabus and we drilled that regularly. He would pull the power at 700ft and we had better get light in the seat and get to best glide right quick or I got "counseled". Recovery was at 500ft.
My "rejected T/O" drill took place at 50ft AGL. Did it twice as I didn't get down fast enough the first time. It made a massive difference to have actually done it. I highly recommend any CFI to include rejected T/O on the runway and 50ft EFATO (on a long enough runway) in their course!
I learned this lesson the hard way just 2 weeks ago...
Just like he mentions in the video, my son and I were headed to Oshkosh, and we were heavy with all of our camping gear. We were easily within POH weight limits, but nonetheless we were still heavy. We had departed our home field in northeast Texas shortly before noon on 07/24 and landed about 3 hrs later in central Missouri for a fuel stop. After fueling up and using the restroom, we got back in the plane and prepared for the second leg of our journey. Well, turns out it was a VERY HOT day, and it was now around 3pm in the afternoon... and DA was around 3300ft! We started our takeoff roll... the rotation speed for my plane is 80mph... but I wasn't able to get past ~73mph! About 2/3 down the runway I realized that our bird did NOT want to fly! So I chopped the throttle and aborted the takeoff; I began braking hard, but not too hard so as not to tip the nose down on my taildragger; and at the same time I had to stay on the rudder carefully to stay lined up with the center line.
My decision to abort the takeoff was made suddenly and without warning, of course, and I succeeded in scaring the crap out of my 16yr old son! He was visibly shaken for quite a while after this incident.
In retrospect, I AM pleased that my instinct kicked in and that I aborted the takeoff when I did, because if I hadn't I might not be typing this right now. But the hard lesson I learned was that I should have made the decision to abort MUCH earlier than I did!
Why? Because I ran out of runway. :(
Fortunately, at the end of the pavement was about 75 yards of very well-manicured, flat, smooth, grass... and in that tense moment I did not hesitate to use it! I needed the extra room to safely slow the plane down, and I knew the soft grass would help me do that. And it did. When finally slowed to a safe speed, I let the tail swing around, and we just sat there a moment in silence, thankful that we were no longer moving, and that nothing terrible had happened.
I added some power, and we taxied right back onto the runway and then back to the FBO. The only thing damaged was my ego! But again, it could have turned out much, much worse...
The rest of our trip to Oshkosh 2021 was thankfully undramatic and uneventful, as far as the flying part goes. But from this experience, I am now a better pilot. I now take the time to study runway diagrams very closely and pick a "no-go" point which, if I reach on takeoff roll but am not yet airborne, I'm aborting the takeoff.
This series of videos is absolutely wonderful, and I look forward to watching all of them. And some of them, probably several times! Thanks for this video series, and your efforts to improve safety in general aviation... is very, very much appreciated!
When flying gliders the rejected takeoff on tow is something we always practice. It can get messy if the tow plane has a n engine problem and the glider pilot being towed is not ready for that scenario. Therefore it is something we always practice when instructing students.
Only one rejected take-off "for real" for me. The engine did not create the thrust that I felt comfortable with. I rejected the take-off and rolled to the end, returned to the run-up to exercise the engine again. After the second run-up; I just didn't feel good with the mags, called it day and went and had an adult beverage. Turned out to be a bad mag. This was great Josh. Thanks!
GREAT video. The other thing several instructors of mine never mentioned was planning for max weight takeoffs in min climb conditions on min-length runways.
In 2005, it was late (2 AM), I was tired, and we had one more short hop of about 50 nm to reach our destination. The POH said we had enough runway, but the aircraft was old, so I added the 50-foot takeoff distance to the no-obstacle landing distance and it was about 500 feet shorter than the airfield.
So, I talked things over with my passenger, who was also a pilot, but not type-rated in the aircraft I was flying. After about 20 minutes of figuring out the best way to approach the issue, we agreed that I'd monitor airspeed and call 'Rotate' when we reached Vr, while he'd call 'abort' when we reach the point where we only have the no-obstacle landing distance left. I called Vr first, or simultaneous, we'd continue. If he called abort first, we'd abort.
Yes, it worked. I did a good runup at full throttle with the cowl flaps wide open. I leaned it to peak RPM, watching the engine gauges carefully, letting them settle for about 15 seconds, and released the brakes.
We hit Vr about three seconds before we hit the no-obstacle landing distance remaining point.
So, yes, it worked. But it didn't work well, as we could have had a sick engine, reached Vr before the distance remaining point, and made the mistake of taking it airborne.
Put simply, it was a solution, but certainly not the best one. In fact, I was overthinking it, as Section 5 has a zero-obstacle ground roll chart. Given the inputs, our ground roll should have been 880 feet to Vr. The simplest solution would have been to call "distance" about 100 yards before the 1,000 foot point.
What I think would work best for general aviation, however, is a table or chart with all inputs including density altitude, T/O weight, and headwind component resulting in two outputs:
1. Velocity (kts)
2. Time (seconds)
...for every 500' interval (500, 1000, 1500 etc.) where the velocity is below Vr. These distance increments are best, as they're easily identifiable on most airfields. Where they're not, the pilot can use both Velocity and Time to ascertain proper acceleration, the same as the big boys do.
If you don't reach that velocity by that distance and/or elapsed time, abort.
As an airline pilot we have a dedicated rejected takeoff checklist. We are required to do a rejected takeoff during our check rides and recurrent. Had to perform one cause my FOs seat flew back and he wasn’t in a position to take the aircraft. It’s definitely something we all should be thinking about. Love what your doing keep up the good work.
I did one coming out of Lubbock Executive in 2016 taking my Navion cross country. Hard lesson to learn. After rotation, I only got about a 100fpm rate of climb, saw the powerlines at the end of the runway coming quick, and did exactly what you did at Big Bear.
I used to fly out of San Marcos with my dad,... hearing the old numbers and taxiways brings up great memories!
Excellent! You are saving lives. I’m spreading the word. Working hard on my IFR.....OLD DOGS CAN LEARN NEW TRICKS. THANK YOU!
After diverting to Bimini, Bahamas due to T/S, I waited while a monster downpour passed by. Unbeknownst to me, the residual low pressure left in my static ports and lines sucked in a few droplets of water. After the storm and under sunny skies, I back taxied to runway 28 and began my take-off roll. airspeed acted weird and came up to 60kts quicker than usual. I kept scanning it faster and more than normal and realized the needle stopped moving. IMMEDIATE power chop, brakes and control back pressure on the elevator. I always noticed on your vids that u always announce your about plan. I still forget to announce it every single time, but in the back of my mind I always have reflexes ready for the power chop thank for that experience in the Bahamas and your vids.
Awsum video and great series!!!! Thanks!
Mike L
So glad to see this type of training. Had a rejected take off earlier this year. Rolling down the runway and the airspeed indicator counted up but slowly. Plane kept accelerating like normal but airspeed didn't match what the plane felt like. Shut it down right before the plane was ready to fly and the airspeed indicator stuck at 60kts. A&P found a mud dauber nest in the pitot head.
Excellent. There was more than one incident as a student where I pushed the envelop of getting airborne before the end of the runway (on touch-n-goes). One was during a 2nd supervised solo after landing too far down the runway. I really think my instructor should have said something to me about that. Another was where I didn't quite get the throttle all the way in (on a slightly over powered 172). Way passed the point of no return I noticed I wasn't climbing as I should and pushed the throttle the rest of the way in. My first instinct should have been to abort waaaay before that.
As a current student these are things I never thought about until watching Josh brief it in past videos. Glad he covered this topic!
This hits close to home for me. I had a close call the day after practicing short takeoffs and landings. I knew where my take off point was solo, but I had a passenger of 250lbs more. I knew my roll would take longer. I was in a Cherokee 140, on a 3600 foot untowered airport with a line of trees at the end. I began take off like normal. I noticed that I didn't have as much thrust as before, but I attributed it to the 250lbs more load. I reached my abort point , which like your dad, was too far down the runway. I killed the power, pushed the nose down, began breaking and ground effect lifted me off the runway. At that moment, my only thought was how much runway I had left... I didn't think I could get the plane down in time so I hit power again and focused on the stall buzer nosing down to increase speed then bringing the nose up till I heard stall buzzer... Done over and over until clear of tree line. After reaching pattern altitude, I began investigating what had happened. I discovered that while checking the mags, I over shot the both switch. I heard/felt one click and didn't visually confirm that I was on both. Once I put the mag to both, our thrust sucked us into the seat. Lesson learned. Might be a good AQP item to simulate. Especially since I couldn't hear any difference in the planes engine performance.
I had a very good instructor. He introduced rejected take offs after rotation and a altitude of abt 30-50 ft. Yes, we had a long runway but it didnt take much. I learned a lot from him.
I was off to do my long solo cross country for my private. but, when I advanced the power to full, my nose wheel wasn’t sounding right so I rejected the takeoff. Best lesson I have ever learned. Thank you for the awesome video. Looking forward to more
Great job. Was in the second row of passenger seats on a 727 going ATL to LGA and the center engine gave a shudder just after rotation. The crew did a perfect TRO and I took the next flight out. It was the first of a series of engine failures in 727 and MD-80 birds One poor woman was killed a few weeks later at JAX when a rotor vane entered the cabin on a fail.
I was there the day that bonanza crashed. Horrible sight but taught me a lot. A few weeks after the crash I was also taking off from corona and the airspeed indicator wasn’t indicating the actual speed the plane seemed to be going. I rejected the takeoff and later found out there was something wrong with the pitot tube. That crash was hard to see but made me a better pilot. Thanks for the great video josh!
Rejected a takeoff once as a solo student pilot because the fuel pressure gauge dropped to zero on the roll and I figured better safe than sorry. It was a wonky gauge. I was lucky to have had a CFI who made me brief rejected takeoffs (usually framed as engine failures) before every flight in the runup area. However, I learned about abort *points* from watching this channel! Great video as always.
Bravo, good stuff! I must have had a good CFI (I did). We never physically practiced an RTO but he built into my head two things: 1) Always have as many outs as possible, and that applies to TOs;. and 2) Never retract the gear if you still have useable runway.
I watch a lot of tubers retract the gear immediately upon experiencing a positive rate. Realizing you want to make the plane as efficient as possible for a climb out, it doesn't make sense to me to lift the gear after only using 1,000 feet of a 5,000 foot runway until you are past the point of no return. It may be only a few seconds difference but, to me, it could also be the difference in experiencing a successful and safe RTO.
For what it’s worth, this is something I learned in gliders over 30 years ago, only they were called rope-break drills. Given that the appropriate action for LOTOT changes as one accelerates and then climbs, I decided for myself that before each takeoff, I would, based on wind speed and direction, runway in use, etc. identify what I would do at 0-100’ AGL; 100-400’AGL, and from. 400’ to pattern altitude (800’ AGL) if the towline snapped. This gave me a certain peace of mind having developed “a plan” before leaving the bosom of Mother Earth.
I have had 3. Fouled plug (probably idling too rich after runup waiting to take off) with my family in the plane. Solo flight when a scat tube came loose and reduced power. Last one I was only on one mag during my seaplane endorsement (I think that I bumped into the key).
At my flight school, we did Reject take-of, before the Vr and also after Vr airborne whit RWY available. But in this video, I learn something new, to choose a metric point or visual point on the RWY to make that decision. Thank you! I'm Loving this new mentality in GA.
As a current (pre-solo) student these are things I never thought about until watching you brief it in past videos. Thanks for this series!
This is what I have been preaching for years. Safety first! Think ahead! Great job putting this in a visual concept!
I had two aborted takes offs in a J3 Cub back to back in 2014, it was my first flight taking my father in-law. I used a irrigation pivot as my go/no go lift off point. This was a home runway deal. Never gave it much thought until now, that’s how to still with a plan. It’s not a SIM! Great Video.
I,m going to brief my departures more after watching this video .. Thanks Josh .
Oddly enough (after watching this) I’ve had an incident where on a touch and go the engine never returned back up to full power. I had enough power to get airborne, but not to climb or really do anything. I was under pressure to clear the runway as there was another plane on final coming in behind me, so I opted to proceed. I’ve known for years I should have shut it down right there. In the end, it worked out as I flew on, the engine slowly gained power back up to normal levels. I had a feeling I knew what was wrong as another partner had described to me the exact problem he experienced not the week or two before. The issue wound up being a broken spring on the carb, not allowing the carb to open up correctly.
Definitely something to par and learn to be a good judge of...
Don't underestimate reading the windsock wrong... I've done that before.
I came to my senses before taking off, but it really highlights how easy it is to make mistakes you would otherwise think you'd never make. (Who the hell reads a windsock wrong? Me, it turns out...)
Yndostrui did the same. Read the windsock wrong and gave wind correction (aileron input) in the wrong direction. I almost flipped over when i rotated... it can easily happen when you are suffering from fatigue (was an early morning solo flight during my flight training)
Nice vid Josh. I really like what you're trying to do here. Bravo. I had a rejected after take off (like you) once, with a passenger, as a newly qualified private pilot. Very sobering, and my return to the runway looked very much like yours. And it was all improvised as you said, nothing in the training for that. It was a faulty stall warner, that just didn't stop sounding in a PA28. I do think as light aircraft pilots though, we're more aware of the performance variations, than maybe a commercial jet pilot. That seemed to be the case with your students too, who spotted the failure well before the defined point. I've always found it difficult to find a defined point on the airfields I fly from. Quite often, they're shorter fields, with not many intersecting runways, and taxiways, and no other clear markers.
Good stuff! I've had four real aborted TO's, #1 Glider aerotow, #2 & #3 Experimental Aircraft #4 Twin 401. All stopped short of thresholds.
I departed once (172 with 2 adults and 2 kids) from Big Bear years ago. The almost full load and high altitude made for a VERY long takeoff roll. Then there is the slow and shallow climb out over water. I kid you not it was the scariest takeoff I ever did (and everything was normal!). I was sure glad I got some high altitude training at this airport before doing it myself.
Not a pilot, but was an active skydiver in the 80's. This reminded me of an aborted take off in a Beech D-18. I was in the copilot seat. We had a cross wind that I don't think the drop zone staff realized when they told us what runway to use. We started all the way over on one side of the runway, but as soon as the tail lifted, we almost instantly drifted to the other side of the runway. The pilot IMMEDIATELY shut it down, but with an aircraft that big we had a lot of momentum that the pilot was having a hard time controlling, and we drifted off the runway and ground-looped. (I can still visualize the dirt-clods and gravel blowing across the windscreen.) Fortunately, we didn't put a wheel in a hole or anything like that and the aircraft came to rest without further incident.
Of course, being filled with a bunch of us silly skydivers, one jumper in the back shouted up 'do you want us to push it back on the runway?' The pilot's response was 'No you dummies, just get out of the damn plane!' We all hurried out then... 😉
Great video, very informative and effective in pushing the importance of training the uncommon training protocols.
I was in about 30hrs training asked CFI to do a rejected takeoff, I want to understand everything that goes with it. We both kept forgetting to do it until lesson was over. Well Corna hit and put a holt on flying. When over with this pandemic we are doing it for sure. I think it should be mandatory to learn.
Try it in a simulator.
Not a pilot but if flying as a passenger I would want the Pic to be aware of this. Great thing you and Dan are doing. It will save lives. Maybe yours or mine.
Hi ! It’s awesome what you are doing. My instructor did me some aboarding practice time to time but not using the trotte because the student can see it and then think “ho yes this is what he wants to do it” but instead he pressed very smoothly on the breakers. That makes a better feeling of the airplane. But the most important is the briefing before takeoff : beeing in the mood of “no, we won’t take off if...” and also “what do I need to do when I am aboarding”
Good video. At our school we do set an abort take off point as well before each take off and mentally go over the emergency procedures during take off so you're mentally prepared.
I had a rejected takeoff once in my Tripacer. I'm a low time pilot and It surprised the heck out of me when I was ready to call out "airspeed alive", but it wasnt (pitot tube flap not opening). It still took a moment to process, respond and shut throttle. Since then I call out "Potatoes". As I roll on throttle i count One potato, two potato, three potato. If I'm not flying by four potatoes, I'll shut it down. Add potatoes if loaded. Try it!
Great topic! The abort at a predetermined point approach would be appropriate for situations involving high density altitude operations and maximum weight departures. For everyday flying there are some other considerations that are also important. I call them “Sight and Sound”.
When I pull out on the runway and advance the throttle, I glance at the tachometer to see if the engine is producing the power that it normally does. In my airplane (172M) that is 2325 to 2350 rpm. If the engine is not producing the usual power at full throttle, I abort. If the rpm peaks and starts decreasing it is also time to abort.
When I fly a low wing aircraft that utilizes fuel pumps rather than gravity feed for fuel flow, I also look at the Fuel Pressure gauge prior to rotation. If the gauge is not at the normal indication or, worse yet, falling towards zero, then I abort the takeoff.
Finally, and this is the big advantage to having your own airplane or flying the same airplane all the time, if the engine does not sound right, like it normally does, when you apply full throttle at takeoff, it is time to abort. It is far better to address these issues on the ground than to deal with them at 200 to 300 feet of altitude off the end of the runway. Trust me on this one.
Sight and Sound.
Great demonstration and thank for explaining in depth that just because you may have several hundred or thousands of feet of additional runway, if you're not in the air when you should be, abort and find out why.
My only "real" aborted takeoff was in a Champ that I was renting about 20 years ago. My preflight was probably not as thorough as it should have been because I missed a loose fairing strip on top of the wing by the windshield. When I was around 15 feet off the ground that thing started banging around. To me, it sounded as if the motor was backfiring. I immediately chopped the throttle and zigzagged my way to a stop after a pretty "solid" landing...dang heel brakes! Thanks for all the videos Josh. Amazing content and well presented!
George (Farris, at A&B) gave me some mock 'engine failure on takeoff' scenarios during my pre-solo checkout. I wasn't expecting them at all and did not do well on the first one, but he kept running me through them to drill down the instinct of "push forward" instead of the intuitive "pull back". I really didn't do much more practical training on them other than my instructor having my audibly talk through my abort plan during taxi, but I still think about those takeoffs at KHYI whenever I take off now
Thanks for this one. I never recall having this discussed during my flight training many years ago. Another discussion point might be to cover what to do when you do take off but sense problems shortly thereafter. Very early during my training in a C150, after multiple solo T&G's with less than full tanks I had a sputtering engine just after lift off. I recall the instant thought about touching back down, but knew I was too far, so I climbed out fairly flat until the engine returned to normal and then executed a terrible full-stop downwind successfully but ugly. My point here is that I would say more often than not, after you have lifted off of the runway, it is rarely a good idea to set back down unless you decide within a very few seconds. Be Careful Out There.
Only rejected T/O that I ever had was when I was a solo student. The plane rolled about 3 feet then suddenly stopped. Turns out that tail tiedown rope worked really well. Was very embarresed but I learned to be MUCH more through on preflight after that.
I've practiced it since before solo. My first CFI did it right after rotation on a 3000 ft runway.
Thanks Josh, its important to build in the what-ifs into our daily chores. As a past safety officer for my fire department, I always adapted other professions' safety. The fire service many years ago went to the sterile cockpit (crew compartment) while responding to calls to ensure our safety and arrival.
First Off: Gig’Em Aggies. Glad your representing ‘Ol Army in such a positive way.
Second: I am very thankful for your video series. I will be applying this to my Aero club.
Thanks so much for these videos Josh - and perfect timing being a brand new instructor with only a few dozen hours of instruction.
Thanks Josh for all of your videos. They are incredibly interesting and important topics. I’m 61, got my license at 21 and I’m now just getting back in the air after family, profession and kids distracted me for a time. I was lucky enough to train in Aspen, learning all sorts of emergency situations, so finding you online at this stage has reconfirmed the importance of my initial training. As you point out, awareness is everything and having a predetermined plan is essential. Looking forward to watching and learning more from your flying experience.
Kinda surprise that hearing people never talked about it, flight training I had from private though CFI we had thousands of briefing for this and for every single take off we review what we do we do if there is a case anything went wrong during takeoff roll or after lift off, and pretty much whole multi engine is about this, one good habit for this is always knowing how long the runway is and performance calculation and also use google map to precheck what’s surrounding the airport and runway where we can put down the aircraft if runway is not long enough, good video!
I only fly models, rc, but a plane is a plane. Thanks for sharing your knowledge.
The only time I have experienced a rejected takeoff was coming home from Greenland last year. Just before expected rotation. Computer glitch in the cockpit. Second time around we got to look down at Sønder Strømfjord. But the airbus spent an extra day in Copenhagen 😊
I usually work an rto into any training session where I'm doing multiple touch and goes. I do full stops, stop and go, touch and go, RTO, and low approaches. All useful to stay proficient on. One thing I've never done is re-land the plane. I think once you take off you can't actually reject that take off (unless you have a flux capacitor on board maybe). To be clear... I do this at an untowered field.
I've aborted take off roll once. It happend in my second flight after getting PPL. My cockpit filled with smoke at 55kt. (C152) I'm glad that I did it.
Luckily I’ve done a few practice RTOs both rolling and after rotation. The abort point is a great tip. Thanks josh
This is why, even if one isn't going to become an airline pilot, I advocate that everyone accumulate ratings and training as much as possible as if one will enter the airlines in the future. For example, I did do a rejected takeoff in single engines once during my PP training, but those were routine during my multi-engine private and commercial training. Takeoff briefings were also standard during multi training, and then I wondered why we didn't do that all the time when flying single engines. I would also say that shutting down engines in the air in a twin, while it's not the same, helped me get over the possible fear of that happening in a single and immediately thinking (out of fright) that there are no options for the emergency. That's similar to engaging in spin training for CFI, where you feel a bit more confident in getting out of one as well as recognizing the incipient characteristics prior to a full stall, as compared to just flying with spin awareness knowledge from a book as a private pilot, that you probably forget after the checkride is over.
This is good training. We use time as a metric on the B777. If we don't have 80 KIAS within 20 seconds then we abort. The 20 seconds is a conservative number that covers heavy weights and high elevation airports. I normally see 80 KIAS by 15 seconds or less.
Very nice, Josh and Dan! I agree with how you put this at the end: rather than introducing new additional rules, a different mindset across GA can make a huge positive impact. Things can go wrong, and we must be ready to recognize when that happens, and respond appropriately. A take-off plan is an important element for that.
Best regards,
Martin
My examiner gave me a rejected takeoff during my PPL skills test which I'd never covered before. It was a great experience and I executed it well! However what I take away from this is to ensure I set my own predefined plan for every takeoff roll and go out and practice it for myself..... Once I can get the opportunity to get back out and fly that is...
I remember when you first posted your rejected take off in the mountains. Kuddos for spreading first hand knowledge to new pilots!
As a student pilot, really enjoying this series. Part of our pre-flight checklist is to discuss an abort plan. So hopefully this type of AQP training will take hold in general aviation.
"Fly Like Your Life Depends On It ... Because it DOES!"
THANK YOU for another AWESOME video and sharing your experience and passion for Aviation. 👍👍
Aborted a takeoff off of a grass strip 2 weeks ago because I caught a big tailwind gust, but I was already about 15 feet up! Had to land it back down and get her stopped. Good preparation was an absolute must in executing safely! I've got a video of it if you would like it.
Aborted several takeoffs in my time for everything from no airspeed all the way up to engine failures in twins.
That being said, I can appreciate the training to try and get people to think about RTOs. I do have a couple of thinking points here though:
As far as a takeoff briefing, being spring loaded for an abort is simply required when flying airplanes. Before every departure I mentally prepare myself that this one is really the takeoff where something is gonna go wrong. This is really the one that I'm gonna lose the engine or lose electrical power or whatever. Prepare your mind for the abort or the upwind engine failure. That reduces the startle effect of something going wrong. Surprise causes the human mind to freeze up and in those precious moments you're losing speed and energy.
On that note, waiting to reject a takeoff until your pre-determined abort point is not the correct way to think about when to abort. It is true that your pre-determined point should be a factor in deciding whether or not to abort; however if the decision is made to abort a takeoff before the distance is reached then the abort should be made immediately. It preserves runway length for your roll-out. Personally, the second I felt the power reduction from the "sick engine" the power would come back and the brakes would be applied.
That all being said, don't think I'm trying to Monday morning quarterback any of what you're doing here. You're totally right that RTOs aren't really trained until you get to the ATP level and then it feels like that's all we do in the sim. I'm totally on board with training it, but we need to train our students with the mindset of "abort now, think later" vs "engine is running kinda rough but eh, I haven't made my point yet so I'll continue until then".
Enjoyed the video as I have for years. Continue to make awesome content!
I would say the first step to recovery is admitting you have a problem. Most low time student pilots don't have enough experience to even know what low power feels like. So they need an easily referenced decision point where they are calling it off for sure. It could be a stopwatch, or a fixed point on the runway. But it has to be more concrete than "felt the power reduction from the engine". Of course, if an obvious problem comes up before the predetermined point, then the PIC should abort. But the main problem and teaching point here seems to be getting GA pilots to recognize that take off is failing while there is still enough time to do something other than crash.
One of the most insidious yet shocking events that causes a need to RTO is runaway down elevator trim to limit caused by the autopilot left engaged after the pre-takeoff autopilot checklist testing. As the aircraft reaches flying speed, down trim makes the elevator too heavy to allow lifting the nose (and as speed keeps increasing gets even heavier), making takeoff impossible. Every pilot benefits from practicing how to detect, and then reject the takeoff after reaching and maybe passing flying speed.
I have been using the 50/70 rule. If your not at 70% take off speed at the runway 50% mark abort/reject the take-off! I had just learned the thumb rule when I tried to take my parents for a flight out of a small field and actually aborted the take off.
Great video. I've never practiced rejected takeoffs. But I will very soon. Yesterday I practiced direct crosswind takeoffs & landings taking off from 9R at KOPF with winds 17016G26kt..
These videos are really good especially watching while going through my ratings and still been early on in learning to be a pilot they are really helpful and full of info that I can use to improve and better my training and skills.
Another great video! This is such important information; I hope someday all GA pilots will train like this!
Looking at another comment... reminded me. YES bugs/wasps will plug your airspeed in a hurry! I had this happen too, after airborne, I sit my 56’ C-172 down due to no airspeed, a bug had plugged the pitot tube. I didn’t have a cover, which increased chances I’m sure.
I really admire Dan for his efforts in promoting this AQP concept, and congratulations to you for the extremely well-produced and educational videos demonstrating the concepts. I hope that it will make a difference!
Really like this grassroot thing! A freaking + J!!! Just excellent!!! 👍👍👍
I my be late to the website, but years ago while flying a group of high school students in a demo flight for my aviation science class in a C-172, right at rotation the engine began to stumble and lose rpms. I set the aircraft down and notified the tower of the power loss. As I rolled clear of the active I began to check what might have caused the power loss and saw the mixture knob backed out from full rich. When I advanced the mixture I realized the friction lock that held it in position wasn’t working and I had to physically hold it in to keep it from backing out. That’s one more item I now check in my run up procedures.
What are your thought on 0.7xVr by 1/2 runway length? Seems like you prefer to pick your abort point based on performance in POH. Do you apply any buffer? Do you use 50ft obstacle roll numbers from the POH? Thanks Josh for continued great content.
Hi Pete. Excellent! This is exactly the way we teach this in Europe. We usually don’t have 1000ft markers on small airfields, but we almost always have 1/2 runway signs.
I always brief for what to do during a rejected takeoff or engine failure on the runway (throttle idle, keep the plane on the ground, full breaks) during my takeoff briefing, but ive never considered setting a specific abort point on the runway. I will start doing this now, thanks!
RTO is always apart of my take-off briefing. Come close to a reject once. Right prop was slightly overspeeding, my first reaction was to reject but my instructor canned it and we continued. I was confused with his call to continue but in hind sight we might of over ran the runway if we did reject.
Really nice point for a visual marker for the no-go, but a simulated reject when you know it will happen and look for it in my opinion is very different than not expecting it at all., let alone an actual emergency. After all as a PIC there are many vital tasks to do during normal procedures. In my training I have had numerous unexpected engine "failures" by the CFI, and compared to the ones I expected, my performance and execution of the maneuvers were lower than that of the practice runs. It's just different not expecting something like this at all to happen for sure. Anyway this is a golden idea for the AQP to be tailored to GA and is something we shall all see, train and give our best to be proficient at. Keep up the work Aviation101 and everyone on the project! P.S It would be most beneficial if all those things are tied together with the existing IFT curriculum.
Good stuff! I think about a rejected takeoff every time. The ends of my runways are the top of a mesa and that's pretty motivating. But... I don't think I'm that serious about it. I've got 6,500 and 6,704' depending which runway I'm leaving from and the takeoff roll / 50' obstacle numbers are 875' and 1,370'. (no 50' obstacles, just a long steep drop off). Density altitude can be pretty high and the wind can sometimes swing to your tail from a direct crosswind. My "thinking" is out loud, ie. It's a verbal callout during the roll (if not off by the 1,000 marker then reject the takeoff) but I don't know if I believe me. I'll be a little more observant of what I'm doing and thinking about during a takeoff.
Really enjoying this series... Student Pilot.
Hi Josh,
I'd like to propose an idea similar to this procedure. What if the CFI sets the power he/she desires(could be full power or a reduced setting) and calls out "TO power set", then it's up to the student to determine if the airplane is performing as it should, at the abort point, and make the go/nogo decision.
I really like this series, specially because I'm considering becoming a CFI when things start to get back to normal.
Keep up the good work.
Critical that all pilots see these types of videos as I’m a true believer it will save lives. Stay Proficient, Current & Safe
Great info. This hits home for me. Late last year I finished some rather extensive repairs on my Stinson 108. I had not flow that particular type taildragger in a several years. ( I did do myself the favor by going up with a CFI in a 170 just prior to this event) I performed a high speed taxi roll just shy of flying speed to reacquaint myself with the airplane and final leak checks. In the time from this high speed taxi and leak check complete, the winds had changed. Now the active runway had a slight (less than 4kts) Tail Wind! I considered that, maybe not as much as I would like to think. On roll out and then lift off the airplane did not "feel" right flying. I was maybe 50" or so with well over 6,00' remaining and decided to "put her back down". I normally have my point picked out. But I was already in the air and had the where with all to abort. All in all, the issue was the tail wind and a right wing that a tad heavy. All that is fixed and she is flying beautifully now. My take away is this should be every pilots REACTION, this needs to be taught in primary training. Thanks Josh and sorry to be long winded. (Pardon the pun)
Great video! It reminded me of a time in 1971 with a rented 150 I took my cousin for a ride. I was toped off he weighed 275
I weighed 170 and a very hot August day at Canton, oh CAK had plenty of runway. I was never taught aborting a takeoff. I was 3/4 the way. down the runway when I felt it lift off. I knew I had a problem,I hope your video today taught pilots something. It sure snapped my memories back aways. You are a tremendous CFI. Fly safe
Its easy to forget steps in aviation, especially when you don't train for them. Thank you so much for making this video. Hope the people who need so see this do.
Luckily my are school in there integrated course practices RTO's in a simulator but before every flight we recite a RTO briefing just to make sure that we are aware. The biggest issue that we have is runway lengths therefore we are not able to select a abort point. That said it is a very important skill to have.
Ooh! I've done this!
ASI was inoperative due to having been outside in a thunderstorm (pitot sock was on it, but everything was so wet and humid that we're thinking condensation formed in the line). ASI didn't come alive before the wheels broke the ground. Pulled the power back, settled back to the runway, and called out a rejected takeoff to CTAF. Complete non-event.
Okay, now to watch the video!
In my flightschool we practiced them. Not with full brake pressure though. But we went through the whole procedure.