Should I buy one of these?
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- Опубліковано 26 лис 2023
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As a Skymaster owner I wanted to clear up a few points that were mentioned in this comments section. 1) Interior noise--Yes, it is slightly noisier than a conventional twin because of both engines attached to the fuselage, however, ANR headsets completely eliminate this concern. 2) Rear engine cooling--paying attention to rear engine baffling easily solves this problem. 3) Rear engine maintenance--Sometime in the mid 70's Cessna installed a service door to the rear engine that is accessed from the baggage compartment. There is an STC to install this in the earlier models. This substantially improves access to items such as the rear alternator. 4) No light twin flies well on one engine, especially during takeoff. In a conventional twin, unless the engine seizes, just looking at the propeller will not tell you which engine is failing. 5) The 336 model, produced for only about 12 months, lacks many of the improvements of the 337. 6) It’s easier on the battery to start the front engine first because of the long battery cable run to the rear engine. You can easily tell when the rear engine starts. One should always lead the takeoff run with the rear engine, as Kevin did in this video. 7) Wingspan is 38.5 feet, so it can fit in a 40 foot t-hanger (barely). 8) The single engine service ceiling on the normally aspirated model is about 6,500 feet, and it is 18,000 ft for the turbocharged version. That is hardly “limping a few extra miles” to the scene of an accident. 8) I have heard wives tales of people caging one of the engines in cruise flight to save money, but I don’t know a single 337 owner that would do that. 9) With long range fuel tanks at 148 gal usable, at 20 gal/hr and 150 kts, the range is over 1000 miles.
There are lots of great airplanes available-Bonanzas, Mooneys, Cirrus, Pipers, Barons to name a few. Each has its pluses and minuses. Thank you Josh (and Kevin) for sharing this video on UA-cam.
Josh like you, I’ve always had a warm spot in my heart for the 337. It is the coolest looking plane and coolest sounding one as well. Good luck on finding the right twin.
Cool. Thanks for sharing this info.
What about baggage space? I heard there's not a whole lot of space, especially when compared to other twins with storage in the nacelles and nose.
The rear cargo area is rated for 235 lbs of cargo. This is in the area where seats 5 and 6 are (were). Every 337 I have ever seen has these seats removed as they were essentially useless. Given that the fuselage doesn’t taper to the rear like other aircraft, there is considerable room behind the second row of seats for luggage. Additionally, there is a belly cargo pod available which adds even more cargo space at the cost of a few knots of airspeed.
In the '90s, as a single rated pilot, I had the opportunity to fly several times from the right seat of a nice 1973 C337(G or H?) with the Robinson STOL conversion and 150 gallon tanks. The STOL mod is great, enabling slow flight speeds quite below that of unmodified Skymasters. We flew it into Sun & Fun, easily flying in the slower single engine stream of inbounds with no problems. The ailerons also act in concert with the flaps, enabling significantly better short-field performance. While a bit heavy in the pitch axis, the roll response was light. The clam-shell entry door was very nice. With its gear extended, it can cruise with only a 15 knot penalty. The fuel burn was less than 20 gph. This was my favorite aircraft to fly.
Josh, I am a retired A&P and was a USAF Crew Chief. I also have some 172 time. I put a lot of hours in working on the O-2A during my time in during Vietnam Era. It's a really tough little bird considering it started life as a civilian aircraft. We really pushed them to the limit during the rocket runs and they held up really well. The IO-360 really held up well also. Having flown the 172, the transition time is almost nothing. I got to fly it when I was riding along as Crew Chief (had some really cool pilots in my squadron). It would be a super stable platform for your photography. I don't see how you can get more bang for the buck than the Skymaster. Great aircraft and as you know, really roomy. Easy for Chelsey to work on also.😊
I was a crew chief at shaw AFB ,and thats the plane that I worked on.Early 80's good safe aircraft.
@@richards1960
I was at Shaw! 704 TASSq in 1973. Took Palace Chase and went to the Guard in '74. I thought they went to OV-10's soon after I left?
@@markhull5776 I believe they were there till 78 or 79 ,not there when I arrived in 1980 . I was in one of the last of two CAMS (Consolidated Aircraft Maintenance Squadrons) left in the USAF. 4507th CAMS .The flying Buffalo was our squadron patch.
Excuse my doubts, but that POS killed at least 14 pilots that I know of, and my best friend, from rear engine hub disintegration leading to boom separation. The USAF did nothing to remedy the problem with that aircraft, but they did replace it with the purpose-built OV-10.
Bottom line: update the hubs and limit the power.
I worked for four years doing 200 and 400 hrs phased inspections ,never saw that particular problem . Other problems related to landing gear. sorry about your friend.@@toomanyhobbies2011
" I baby these engines, because I paid for them"! I loved that. Very true for many of us.
I just came down here to make this comment. So true!!
The thing about twins is: twice as many engines, three times the maintenance cost. For your mission profile, that may be a worthwhile price to pay. Assuming your next plane will be used for videography, a high wing makes a lot of sense. Perhaps see if you can mooch a ride in a 210 to compare it to the 337. A 210 gives you single engine maintenance costs, albeit without the redundancy of the second fan.
Having a third Cessna in the family keeps you with one manufacturer. The controls, the feel, the quirks are all very similar. It’s less cognitive load than jumping between manufacturers.
Good luck with your decision. I can tell you this: many of us here would love to have this problem. 😊
Agreed. Hundreds of hours in a 210 and loved it. Turbo, non pressurized and lower maintenance than a twin
Josh and Chels don't hesitate, what a fantastic underrated airplane and what value for money. A great friend had one, we all thought he was crazy and used to mock him until we all realized what he had, he loved it and flew it for almost 20 years before he passed away recently.
My 100% agree about the checklist usage. I'm a retired airline pilot with a little over 22,000 flight hours. I was used to doing Flows In Jets and then going through the checklist to confirm everything. That's how I do it now in GA airplanes since that's what I'm comfortable with. I checked everything I did in my flow
Matt G. will tell you Bonanza over Cirrus. He railed me one time on a comment that I had about the BOs. I have had partners in owning both planes. We owned a 1968 BE-35ATC, one of the few turbo charged V35As and a 2006 Cirrus SR22-T G3. I know that Cirrus has come a long way since 2006 but there was no comparison in hand flying those two planes. They were also close in performance, payload, etc. The V-Tail flies on a wire and holds altitude (minus a little waggle on landing). The 2006 SR22 is a constant porpoising plane. Obviously with AP on, the Cirrus was no workload but shooting approches without AP on was sometimes tricky. In addition, the V-Tail is very easy to land in comparison to the Cirrus. I know people will blast me on this but I cannot stand the free castoring nose wheel on the CIrrus. I think Diamond does the same with their aircraft. It causes more brake usage than necessary. If you're still considering a single over a twin then the straigt tails or v-tail bonanzas are a great bang for the buck. Even an 80's A36 is probably half or 1/3 of the price of a mid 2000's Cirrus. Good luck. Love to watch your videos. Thanks
I have a 1978 P337H and love it. It's very stable for IFR, has good range, and is very nice over the mountains with the extra engine. Just give it the respect you would give any other twin around engine failures. Speaking of that, I cringe when I see pilots retracting the gear right after takeoff. The gear doors produce a lot of drag when they're open, and you might not be able to maintain altitude, much less climb, if an engine fails. I was taught to wait until I'm clear of obstacles and have enough altitude before I retract the gear. Never close to the ground.
Agree 100%. I own a 1967 M337B. Should an engine fail shortly after takeoff, the airplane cannot maintain a positive rate of climb during gear retraction. I don't touch anything until 500' AGL. Then, Flaps up; Gear up; Climb power; Climb checklist.
YES! BUY THE SKYMASTER!!! I love them! So versatile, unique, and just all around amazing! Not mention it fits you and Chels mission perfectly!Thank you Kevin, a fantastic job! Great, safe flying!
Thanks, Chels, for the great takeoff/ landing shots! So cool!
The Cessna Skymaster is a fabulous plane to have. Spent 4 years helping maintain one that flew daily, being used for traffic reports over the city. Very reliable, and very safe with the centerline thrust. It’s one bird I wish could come back into production (modernized) because of all its amazing attributes.
The sky master has been a favorite of mine since I was a little kid. I am 50 now and it’s still a favorite.
Was it 'Bat 21' that did it? I saw that movie as a kid and loved Skymasters ever since!
You met an aviation ambassador, thanks for bringing us along.
Yes! Buy one! It's probably the best twin for your mission, and a more interesting UA-cam subject than normal twins.
The 337 is my favorite GA airframe. It's kind of like an undercover twin. The sound of those engines is unmistakable.
I flew a long cross country this past summer with 12 other planes and two of them were Skymasters. Once they were airborn they left me (172B) in the dust, but the takeoff roll seemed to go on forever. Capable and safe - you'll notice a bit of a higher fuel burn than 991, but you'll get there faster so it's a wash?
They also have a wing spar AD, no clue what the failure rate on that is.
I absolutely love the Skymaster! It was one of Cessna’s best designs imo, and it checks an awful lot of the boxes in my book too! Twin engines, no adverse yaw, retractable gear, easy ingress/egress, roomy, high useful load, good range, excellent visibility. I grew up in the 70’s and 80’s and the local Air National Guard operated a fleet of Cessna O2’s out of the local airport. They have a very distinct recognizable sound when they fly by overhead. The visibility for aerial photography is excellent. The only negative is that they are a bit noisy, since they have 2 engines droning at both ends of the fuselage. For your mission, I don’t think that you could find a more suitable airframe. Also, it’s certainly a much more cost effective solution compared to other more modern options.
C177 RG was the perfect plane for me!
It has a stabilator so you have TONS of vertical authority similar to a Cherokee.
The wing is set back - so you can actually see into your turns.
4ft wide doors
No Struts blocking a view
Look into a later model C210 if this is your cup of tea - they are definitely cult planes!
Good call on the Cardinal 177RG…I love mine! It is the perfect plane for photography and Big enough to carry 4 people in comfort or two people and a lot of stuff. You can expect around 145 kts at 10 gph.
I love my 177A FG/FP as well. Doesn't have the range that Josh is looking for, though, nor the speed.
I've owned TWO of the 177 series, both 1976 models, fixed gear and the RG. If I didn't own a P337, the best single engine bird would be the 1976-77 model year 177RG series. A FANTASTIC airplane with great speed and fuel economy.
The Pressurized Skymaster is at the top of my list for next airplane. Love them and their history.
I’ve always admired the C337 too. I suspect that many of the oft-repeated stories of their relatively high Mx costs relate more to a reference point than to the actual reliability of the plane. Many 172/182 pilots have upgraded directly to the 337 and were introduced to the double-whammy of maintenance costs for two engines and retractable gear in one big bite. Mort Brown, Cessna’s Chief Production Test Pilot from the 1930s - 1970s told me that his favorite Cessna was the 195 (my type, by the way). I asked him what was in 2nd place - he quickly replied “the 337”. Roomy cabin, solid, safe handling and system redundancy were the factors he mentioned.
I myself have also looked at the Cessna 337 and thought it was one of the coolest airplanes I've ever seen. Many people I've spoken to say they're not very good airplanes, mainly on the maintenance side. But I don't really care. I love the way they're shaped. I love their configuration for the airframe. And as a major plus, the 337 is a plane that my dad and I wanted to get. Unfortunately my father passed last February, but that's not going to stop me from going after the airplane that we wanted as a father son airplane. And with my checkride scheduled for January 9th, after I pass, which I'm super confident I will, I'm gonna start saving for many things, and one of those items is the amazing Cessna 337.
Josh, I can see you as an ambassador for Diamond Aircraft flying one of their twins, and their safety records speak volumes. Another great episode!
I agree 100% on this one…
The thing I dislike about DAs is their pain in the A refueling. "Spills are things, all over their wings..."
Unfortunately instead of a parachute DA decided to gimp their fuel capacity for some reason
I loved my Piper PA-28-235 with full IFR King Avionics is my favorite of all time. Had extended tanks on wings giving me Seven full hours of fuel and boots on the feet and a speed kit which gave me an additional 10 knots cruise. Lycoming engine with dual oil filters and oil changes and filter every 25 hours and always hangared. Mine was a 1973 and a fantastic aircraft in and out of Albuerque or anyplace. Short fields or those 10,000 foot runways. I also loved this Cessna SkyMaster that you are presenting. Flew it for Uncle Sam and was extremely impressed with its abilities. I always run the checklist and pre flights ! Old pilots and bold pilots and no old bold pilots. Always.
The Dakota is indeed a stealthy wolf in sheeps clothing.
I've always loved the 337. You should seriously consider it. Anyone that flies them always seems to be in love with theirs. I think it fits your mission great.
Exciting to see the Sling on the list of potential aircraft! If you’re ever in the Denver area, I’d be happy to take you up in my Sling TSi.
The Cessna Skymaster 337 is the most slept on aircraft of general aviation. I had a lot of seat time in one from 14-17 years old and it was a big part of my life. My father used to do Angel flights with the ower of the Skymaster as well. I will watch every episode you make with it so please add it to your fleet!!!
Planning to become a student pilot soon and it's so useful to see/hear all of the safety precautions Josh and Kevin put into use on every single flight. I also see this a ton on aviation101 videos in general. Thanks for being such a good role model and I'll be referencing your videos a lot during my aviation journey. Also, I'm definitely in support of the Skymaster being added to the aviation101 fleet!
The Skymaster looks like a good buy. Certainly a fascinating airplane! Kevin is an example of a good pilot! I really enjoyed watching this content! Many thanks Josh!
IF I could afford one I would be in a Skymaster right now.
Such an underrated aircraft!
Aero Commander! Although, I do personally love a 337, and I appreciate this video on it with your experience. It's uniquely cool. And a Velocity V-Twin would be awesome too, but I don't feel the visibility would be as great (and likely cost prohibitive to get into one).
Several years ago we flew a 337 half way down Baja from Victorville Ca to fish for a week. We landed off airport for a week and I loved it. November1 Tango Uniform remains a favorite.
Thank you Josh for your postings. I find your posts to be informative and easy to listen to… love your easy background music!
My father flew the Air Force version of the Skymaster, the O-2, in Vietnam as a Forward Air Controller. Got shot a bit but the Skymaster always brought him back to the base safely. He’s 85 now and still talks fondly of the O-2. It’s a great plane and on my bucket list to own one.
I loved my time flying a 337 on fire patrol around Revelstoke BC. Solid airplane, a little fussy on the rear engine operation but not a deal breaker. Can’t mistake the growl of a huffnpuff overhead
Good look at a nice old Skymater. My father was a Cessna dealer in the 60's and 70's. And I'm an independent aircraft dealer who's owned 16 337s and all variants and if you are considering a 337 I'd be delighted to share my experience and love for them and possibly some ownership and buying tips/pitfalls. Quite frankly, the normally asipriated G models while a bit more refined from older A models, lost a bit of performance over the early lighter models. I much prefered the turbo G and P models with the P337 being my favorite. With the upgraded 225hp engines, the P offers much improved single and twin-engine performance over even a T-337, is quieter and more comfy at higher altitudes with typically only modest increased to operational cost.
When it comes to a normally aspirated 337 G model, I'd be more inclined towards a B, D or E55 Baron unless the superior visibility, range and center-line thrust is something you must have, as operational costs are about the same, but the Baron offers more speed and baggage room. 310s are fun but seem to be more challenging when it comes to maintenance and the later normally aspirated 310's like the Q models don't compare to the B55 when it comes to performance.
Josh, I have a lead to a guy that has the military variant O2 Skymaster in Mississippi. Let me know if you’re interested. - Brandon
Twins are neat, but first look at your mission profile vs costs. Example: a C310 or Baron will cost you between $300-$400 per flight hour including reserves, insurance and hangar plus debt service with almost half of that in gas. A Seneca would be less. Mechanical issues on the engines is X2.
I’d look at a C210 or Piper Saratoga. If your priority is air-ground photos then get the 210. If ease of loading and unloading equipment plus wide cabin comfort is important then get the Saratoga. Both will carry a heavy load with reasonable speed. Both are very good IFR platforms. For me - a turbonormalized Saratoga would be my preferred long XC single.
Most of my long XC time is in Comanches, Saratogas, and Arrows. Only a couple hundred hours in Cessnas but I never liked dipping my head or raising a wing to look for traffic.
Unless you plan on spending a lot of time over mountains, open water, or night IFR. I think twins are a waste of money even if they’re neat to fly.
We have a saying in the motorcycle community: Ride what makes you giggle. You've got reasonable short-field/soft-field performance, the big barn-door flaps, and the IO-360 is basically bulletproof. You *can* get a turbo if you intend to do much time in the Rockies, and radar if summertime IFR is a thing... The gear is fussy from a maintenance standpoint but will take you anywhere 991 will once down and locked... And it'll definitely look unique on the ramp. :)
One thing I would look into is how to mount cameras on it, because you're of course going to want those. I don't remember if the Skymaster has the fixed tie-down rings like a Skyhawk does, or whether they retract... if they're fixed you're in like Flynn. I know there's a guy who has a couple of cameras mounted on his Bonanza; I'd be interested to know how he mounts to the top of the wing... that may be an adaptable solution if you don't have fixed rings.
But if it makes you giggle and there are places to put cameras on that suit you? Go for it. "San Marcos Ground, Skymaster one-zero-one alfa, instruments to Oshkosh..." (not that you'd do that *for the show*, but for a pre-show scouting mission on a clear day? 954nm is just doable... :)
I agree the Sky master would make a great addition to the channel. Would be cool to see some collaboration videos with Mike Patey to modify and get some extra performance out of it too!
Patey would have a couple PT6's in there in no time...
@@mattgreven7615 I think someone was working on a single PT6 conversion in the '80s.
Josh, the mixmaster is an excellent aircraft, very underrated. Built like a brick outhouse they are solid and as the military used them as the O-2 bird dog proved they are reliable with good maintenance. They have spectacular range, very good takeoff and landing performance and not bad load capability especially if you are just using it two up or with smaller pax in the back. It fits in well at the big airports but can do backcountry grass airports as well. A friend had one and he used it most places you could take a C206 too. Excellent for the North Atlantic crossing or South America or even the Pacific. However they are just a little maintenance intensive so if you can find a good A & P in the family then it would be an awesome machine.
As a 71 year old A&P and pilot with a bunch of ratings, the 337 is in my top 10 list to own. Keep in mind, engines will need a lot more attention than what you are used to.
If you can afford the cost of a twin, you have my blessing for getting a Skymaster.
Spend the money to get the very best prebuy insp possible. Cessna Skymaster club is good source for info. But then, you know that.
Josh, as always the content is great! I'm currently transitioning into a Bonanza from a Cherokee PA28. My vote is the Bonanza, not because it is what I am doing, but all the advantages this airframe gives it's owner. The quality of the build is superior, the cruse speed is excellent, and the availability of parts to keep them going is really good. Because this is a large investment for most of us, the parts support, and the technical knowledge that is out there on this airframe is far superior to most planes in the fleet today (OK to be fair, the 172, 182, and the PA28 support is excellent...). If you are wanting a true cross country platform you can't go wrong with the Bonanza.
I like the Skymaster! Go for it! I am partial to the Mooney, though, as an M20C owner😁
Awesome video! Always have loved the Skymaster! We so appreciate your cautious and safe approach to flying and great tips! And we are super glad that you only fly with safe, proficient pilots in well maintained airplanes. The McSpadden accident is a stark reminder of what can happen in someone else’s airplane with someone else flying.
Big fan of your aviation videos, Mr. Aviation 101! Been following since day one, and your content is always a great decision-making guide. I apply your approach to my flying decisions, checking personal minimums, aircraft conditions, and company SOP. If risk factors are high, I wait for a better day in general aviation. Your quote, "You can always get there another day," rings true. Keep up the excellent work! Love your videos, eagerly awaiting the next one. Thanks for the flight lesson notepads-especially helpful for IFR flights, making clearances smoother.
I owned a 336 Skymaster and flew a 337 for work. Love the simplicity of the 336 and performance was awesome since it weighs less plus no gear doors in the breeze during takeoff. If I were to pick a twin it would be the Aztec. Shares a lot of systems with the Navajo. You can actually find full deiced normally aspirated Aztecs. I’m not fond of turbo chargers. The Aztec 540’s are a great engine. There is lot of support for them. Not much support for the Skymaster as fewer were made.
Very nice video, and Kevin has a peach of an airplane! The Skymaster is a wonderful aircraft. I looked at it as a serious option when I “graduated” from my 172, but in the end decided the increased maintenance costs of a twin were too high for my budget. I transitioned to a Mooney M20K (turbo IO360) and 800+ hours later I still think it was and is the perfect aircraft for my mission. You can’t beat the speed, range, and economy of the 231. Whether it will fit your mission is another thing altogether, but it’s worth serious consideration.
Always loved the mixmaster when I was a younger pilot. They are a unique and fun aircraft
Definitely worth getting one, it's an amazing aircraft to fly and own. I had one for 2 years when I lived in the US. Nothing but love for the skymaster.
As a GA pilot with 11,800+ hours of flying, I have five favorite fun to fly airplanes (in alphabetical order). They are Aeronca Champ, BE-1900 (5K hours), CE-150 (2K hours), CE-337 and the Lake Amphibian. The 1900 was fast and easy to fly and a great all weather machine including ice but not budget friendly. I'm now a very senior citizen whose reactions are slower. The only twin that I would consider flying now would be the Skymaster. I hated flying the SF-340 (1K hours).The best thing about it was refreshments and cold drinks were available.
Josh- I like the 337. Never owned one, but curious how you felt the noise levels were?
One plane you might want to add to your list is the Socata Trinidad (TB20). Having owned many planes and flown much of the aircraft on your list, the Trinidad is my choice. I prefer full certified airframes…the TB20 cruises around 160kts on 12g/hr and has the most comfortable seats I’ve found in any GA airplane…the TB is very well built, dual gulwing doors, lots of useful load, and trailing link landing gear. The rumors about parts/support are largely unfounded…have not had any parts issues in the last 5 years. 1000nm range or more. You can find nice examples for around $200k. Not many better planes out there for a true cross country hauler. Just wanted to put this one on your radar…and if you find yourself in NorCal I’d be more than happy to take you for a flight!
Keep up the great work!
Have always had a crush on the Skymaster. Great perspective and video. Well done!
Be hard to pick a better twin for your missions. Roomy. Great visibility. Easy to fly (no VMC rollovers to worry about). Good payloads. Very adequate speed. Fuel burn not to bad. Proven design. Wish it was me having to make that choice.
I flew a Cessna 150 once, but most of my training was in the 152. I flew *IN* an _O-2,_ the military variant of the C-337 (as a _passenger)_ *ONCE.* It was also one of the rare times I was in an aircraft *BELOW* sea level - at the Thermal Airport in the California desert. It was back when I was in the _Civil Air Patrol (USAF Auxillary)._
A great plane, back in the mid 1960's while training for my PPL, I had a chance to log time with my Ground School Instructor in his 337. What an airplane! Never had the chance to get one, but it was always on top of my bucket list. The fact that struck me was the (if you will) was the built in safety with the inline engines. Lose one and it will still fly in a straight line, although slower, thus allowing one to get to the nearest airport. One fantastic design, and great to fly. Good luck with your choice.
Yes on the 337! I logged just over 150 hours in a friends 337. We pretty much covered North America on vacations and hunting and fishing trips. My intro to the 337 was the O-2A's flown by the AF in VN They accompanied us on many ground support missions for the Marines and Army . We flew out of Chu Lai.( MAG 12, VMA 311) I owned a 185 for many years and when I got my multi rating (in a Piper Apache) about the same time my friend had bought the 337. I found the 337 was a much more pilot friendly aircraft . It certainly would be my first choice for the purpose's you have in mind. Don't fly any more but still love it. Rear engine overheating on hot days was a concern if too much time was spent idling waiting for take off.
Do it! This was my dream twin for a long time. Ended up flying the 402, but never got to fly this. I've never heard anything bad about it except problems due to pilot error. Right now my dream twin is the Piper Aerostar, but it's not a high wing, so the Skymaster would be perfect for your photography adventures and it's a good 30 knots faster than the 172.
The Robinson STOL mod really helps the C337. The gear door mod is another must have.
My dream twin is the Piaggio P.180 Avanti Evo. Dream big!
Get a Riley Rocket conversion 337! They rock!
What fun! Thanks for your rant on "ignoring the stall horn". I think that was a change from PTS/ACS about not doing slow flight with the horn blaring for the same reason.
Awesome job Kevin flying and maintaining a beautiful aircraft !!
Love all of your videos and because of your love for both flying and photography this plane is a perfect fit. Keep up the good work. Buy one. Can hardly wait to see your first video in one.
I absolutely love the Cessna Skymaster. I was lucky to have flown in one regularly when I was a child accompanying my dad to different remote sites.
Hey Josh -- I absolutely love the Mix-Master -- flew one quite a bit when I was building time. Only drawback is parts availability and cost -- they do "eat" a lot. Thanks for the flight. It brought back so many great memories. Happy Holidays to you and your family my friend.
Hey kudos to Kevin on his solid flying skills. I too really appreciate an experienced pilot who pulls out the checklist and flies by the numbers.
The 337 is a proven workhorse and if that is what you need it might be the bird for you. Reasonably good climb rate, cruise speed, and capacity for people and stuff. The downside is that you have roughly 2x the fuel and engine maintenance expense for not much more performance. I generally favor the T210 Centurion for these reasons but as you know, every airplane is a tradeoff so choose the one that best meets your needs.
If cruise speed and cross country economy are more important than load capacity, the RV9A is certainly worth a look. They fly beautifully and just sip avgas at altitude with a long range, 190mph cruise, and 45 mph stall speed. They are light weight so you need to travel accordingly. A lot to like.
Nice 337 Kevin...well cared for...Josh you will know when you find that wish plane.
Great flight.
Maybe just a thought a good choice is a 1977 T210 Centurion for sale on Top pic. My friend has 1964 C210 Centurion, they are fast have retracts, it has a heavy payload here is specs.
This 1977 Centurion has 3,983 hours on the airframe, 983 hours since the RAM overhaul on its 310 hp Continental TSIO-520R engine and 983 on the McCauley 3-blade propeller. The engine is equipped with GAMI fuel injectors, Knisley exhaust, and a Tanis preheater.
The panel includes dual Aspen Avionics EV1000 Pro Max flight displays, dual Garmin GNS 430W GPS/coms, L3 Lynx NGT-9000 transponder, Century III autopilot, and ADS-B with WAAS, active traffic, terrain warning system, and an engine monitor.
Pilots who need to carry more than four passengers and bigger loads than the typical four-seat single should take a look at this 1977 Cessna T210 Centurion, which is available for $239,500 on AircraftForSale.
The Cessna Skymaster has been a favorite of mine since I was a kid back in 60s and 70s. We used to see one at least once a month as a local company used one to inspect high-voltage powerlines. I thought the plane was awesome then and I still do. Thanks for sharing your experience, Josh!
The 337 has always been one of my favorite GA airplanes. Having said that, I've heard they are very high maintenance. I also loved since I was a kid, and I assume it began when I was the movie "Bat 21" featuring the Cessna O-2.
Please consider a twin Velocity XL. I would love to see you do a video flying the twin XL.
In my 60 years of flying, I have owned a Debonaire, a Bonanza, a P-Baron, 2 C310's, a C172, a C414, a Soko Galeb G2A (single engine jet ground attack/trainer), a C337, and a Piper Comanche 250 (my current ride). Everything said here about the 337 is correct, but (as you obviously know) one has to consider what missions you wish to fly and how much money you'll be willing to spend each year to operate and maintain your bird before deciding. If you need a twin, be prepared for more than twice the maintenance costs of a single. If you need range, there are a number of single and twin options available, with some sacrifice in payload. The Skymaster is a neat airplane, not very fast for a twin and with a complicated landing gear system that requires meticulous maintenance, but fun to fly with good visibility. I do think the centerline thrust is a safety factor, although statistics don't necessarily confirm that. The P-337 can be a maintenance nightmare, but is fairly fast for a 337.
I would encourage you to add the Piper Comanche 250-260 to your list of airplanes to consider. My Comanche 250 has proven to be an excellent compromise for me and my wife. It is roomier than the Bonanza with better payload and CG options, is faster at 160 kts TAS than the Debonaire and the 337, and mine has 120 gal (116 usable) of fuel and very long legs. We flew it to San Diego from Springfield MO with only one fuel stop in Santa Fe, and flew it back non-stop with an average 5 kt tailwind and 1 hour fuel reserve. The Lycoming O-540 is as bulletproof an engine as ever made with a 2000 hr recommended TBO, parts are not a problem, the systems are fairly simple and easily maintained, and there's strong online support. I've owned it for 16 years with no major maintenance problems. My favorite twin for transportation was the Cessna 310Q with Colemill conversion, and my favorite airplane of all time was the Soko Galeb, which I owned for 15 years.
The 337 is really a pretty cool plane, but with a 337 or any other twin...you have twice the cost which is something to consider. If you want something to take you 1000+ miles without making a stop, there are several planes out there that can do this, but if you want comfort and speed in a high wing, I really urge you to think more of a T210. I had a 172 for about 2 years and then got a chance to get a T210 and I jumped on it selling the 172. I had the 210 for almost 15 years and for what I was doing, it was the cat's meow. I ended up selling it a while back for a considerable amount more than I originally paid for it. So, before you jump over the fence, get in a good T210 and put a few hours down as it is 20+ knots faster than a 337 in a normal cruise a 100+ pound advantage in a useful load while burning half the gas.
@Aviation101 Josh,Commodore Aerospace out Bethany,Oklahoma sell 0-2 and Skymasters,parts sells,paint and annual inspections.
Josh love watching your videos. So excited to see that you’re going to take another step in purchasing another plane to fulfill your dreams. This seems like a great plane to do that with. I’m sure you’ll know when you find the right one.
My grandpa and dad both had Navion’s but grandpa’s specialty had a RangeMaster. With tip tanks they hold about 110 gallons and about 1100NM range and cruise about 160 or so. Very smooth and comfortable flying planes
I humbly recommend a turbo Arrow III. I stepped up to it after being a prisoner of density altitude with my Warrior II while traversing southern Wyoming on a cross country trek. The turbo maintains much of your performance at various DAs. It provides flight capability above the weather or turbulence at 145-155 knots TAS whilst burning 9-11 GPH depending on LOP settings. Yet, at low altitudes and slow speeds it’s as stable and docile as any Cherokee.
So close....but no.....go with the 2000 hour tbo t tail piper arrow IV....lycoming baby,
Why does trade a plane show the 200 hp lycomg at 863 a range and the contiental turbo is only 560?
I do not know. With 72 gallons usable at a safety margin fuel burn calculation increased to 12gph and averaging 145 kts - you should get around 870 NM range.
Ive always loved the Cessna 337, since i was young 13 yrs old. One of my first flights was in my mom’s boss’s 337 and it was probably partially responsible for my love of aviation. Now I’m recently retired from AA with a career as an aircraft mechanic with them. I have used my private pilot on and off through the years and had lots of fun in single engine land and gliders! It’s been a bit too expensive to keep it up these days but as long as we are dreaming, I’ve always dreamed of a turbo Skymaster as my choice ride!
Man! I miss flying and I'm so pleased to see this bird get the attention it deserves! Don't think about it - buy it! I'm in SoCal all the time and would love to see this awesome craft in person. If I had the means, THIS would be the aircraft I would ever own. Good luck with your purchase.
Absolutely YES! The 337 is a solid airplane. Love them!
When Kevin started with a checklist I said this is a GUMPS man... and sure enough @15:42 right on cue. Love to see a safe pilot enjoying such a nice aircraft.
1st off, love the channel! I'm a pilot currently working on my instrument, then on to commercial and multi ratings!
I have always been a fan of the 337! Not only is it unique looking aircraft, it also has a very distinct sound in the air. It looks like it be a great x-country plane. The upside is you can get a pressurized version to allow you fly higher and faster than most small twins and single engine aircraft! It looks to have a relatively low stall speed and pretty decent cruise speed, plus a service ceiling of 20k+ feet, and 920 nm range! Ot would be my choice for sure!
The fixed gear model is great because you can put 29" bush wheels on it and get great backcountry performance.
Hi Josh! I was wondering if you could (or maybe you have) make a video about the process you go through in making these videos. From planning, to staging, to setting up cameras, to editing. Maybe talk about the challenges you face filming in a 172, some of the advances you've made with the recent mods to hard mounts and such. I think people would love a behind the scenes look at the way you do things. Thanks for all the hard work and for sharing so much with us. Can't wait to see you again at Sun n' Fun!
The cockpit is that of a twin but the external view is that of a single engine. It really does look quite nice, and it's pretty unique. I don't think I've ever seen one in person, yet
Love this aircraft! I was fascinated by them as a kid and never even realized the role they played in Vietnam as a FAC. Remarkable and Awesome
Had to be one of the nicest 337's I've seen in awhile. Cudo's to the owner for taking such good care of it. Baron would be my choice for two engines but they are why out of my price range not to mention I really don't have the mission for a twin requirement. So will keep enjoying our Comanche 260B. Great video.
A new friend of mine that I met through a control line model airplane club has a 337A that I saw for the first time last Friday. Helped him with a quick repair! 😁I guess he got bored with his 182 and traded for it. Then another new friend in the same club that served as a chief mechanic in Vietnam told me how hated 337s because they were maintenance hogs and the #3 cylinder in the rear engine always seemed to have issues along with overheating. The "Chief", in the end, said they fly great but you have to tinker with them a lot which my other friend likes to do. I love Skymasters. I'm looking forward to going up in the 337a in the near future. I say go for it! I know I would love to own one.
Unless you need serious load capability and require twin redundancy, a P 210, Saratoga, or a Bonanza or even a 182 R would meet mission requirements but at a much lower fuel burn & maintenance costs
BUT NOT THE SAFETY OF A CENTER-LINE THRUST TWIN-ENGINE AIRPLANE! A Bonanza will NEVER fit the mission of a Cessna, BAR NONE, no matter what model - unless it's a B200 King air or above!
The Skymaster is one of my dream planes. If I had the money for gas and maintenance on two engines I'd purchase one. After owning a C-172 and C-182. I wanted something that could provide speed, fuel efficiency, and no landing gear issues. This is what makes RVs the best choice. The RV-14A or RV-10A would be a great plane for you guys. The RV-14A can carry 100 lbs of cargo. You should check them out.
The Skymaster is my absolute favorite plane ever! If I was a pilot, and could have any plane, this would be it....All glass, but a Skymaster.
Congrats on 300k subscribers🎉
Josh I get the feeling you already made up your mind. You just need that extra little tiny push. So here it is. 337 skymaster, that’s the way to go. In the mean time May ask you a question and to whoever else wants to answer please do… would you rather a ballistic parachute or a twin engine when “crap hits the fan” per say… (assuming only one of the two engines fails)
Thanks to the gentleman owner of this beautiful aircraft for his time and safe ways of flying, a very good example for all.
Back in 1974 I was at KBMG getting my check ride for my commercial and they had a brand new pressurized Skymaster. I have loved the looks of it ever since. I have never been in one but love seeing videos of them. There is a guy in Canada "TomAir" that has one and he loves it. You didn't mention the noise level. Noise is one of the complants I have heard. The rear engine is a little of a problem servicing. I hope you get one. Love your videos.
Great content Josh. Used a Skyhawk, Skymaster and a Beaver in West Africa in the 70’s. All of them on a 900’ dirt airstrip that went up a hill. These planes are workhorses.
My brother had a P337 that i logged quite a few hours in.. i loved every bit of the time i had in it.. like you mentioned.. visibility.. range.. safety.. it has it all.. when my brother said he was selling it, i wanted to buy it, but i had just traded into a really nice Duke.. he replaced her with a Turbo Commander 1000.. quickly becoming my new favorite.. which led to my replacing the Duke with a c90.. i have been in several 337's over the years.. the P337 being my fave.. fly high, fast, and efficient..
Skymasters are so cool. I'm actually impressed by its abiltiy to move along at 12 gph combined. What was the airspeed during that phase of flight?
NOT 12GPH. That fuel flow gauge made me do a double-take, too! Watch the video again. The fuel flow gauges were labeled in 'Pounds x10' so that '6' you were seeing on the gauge was 60 pounds per hour, or around 10 GPH for each engine.
20gph makes more sense.
I flew in one of those with the Civil Air Patrol. It was LOUD compared to our 172’s but it was prettiest plane on the ramp.
Very cool video, Josh! I readily admit ignorance about the Skymaster, but it does seem pretty cool after your presentation. I personally LOVE Slings (I think they are one of the best GA aircraft around) but they can be a bit spendy to buy. A Vans RV of the RV-10 or RV-15 flavor tend to be a little cheaper for what you get (and parts are more readily available in the US, too).
They wouldn't meet your cross-country criteria, but if you ever get a chance to fly a Cardinal, or a Bonanza V-Tail, I'd love to see that
Also glad to see Garmin Pilot represented here. I'm not a pilot yet, and I don't have any kind of affiliation with them. But I've made a point to learn both the ubiquitous ForeFlight and garmin. I bought an iPad for my aviation journey, but I've used Android phones for ages. Since FF isn't on Android, Garmin is my only option as a backup on my phone.
Also... I can't wait to see that 150 after it's done!
Check out a 177RG. Probably one of the best aerial photo and video platforms out there! High wing, pilot sits forward of the wing a bit, retractable gear leaves a completely unobstructed view. They are also quite fast and perform fantastic. They have a 48" wide cockpit and are incredibly comfortable. I absolutely love my 177RG!
Nice flying Josh!!!
I’ve always found these to be awesome looking and sounding.