I am a former FLDS member, I left when I was 17 in 2018 so I’ve been out for a few years now. There are so many false and inaccurate stories and claims about that place. I was surprised with how accurate you guys are, a little off but not too far.
Parley Barlow is correct. He is my cousin btw. I left the FLDS cult when I was 18 in 2015. I actually went on TV and told my story to the world. You can find it on escaping polygamy season two episode two to learn more.
Imagine if you're FLDS member and you have a wife you need to sacrifice your wife, you need to force your wife to sex to a prophet 😂 for the glory of god? I couldn't see any logic here 😂 thats called you force your wife to cheat on you. Thats not Called Sacrifice. Jealousy is there also your wife dignity is there too, also if you have a sister you need to sex to your sister for the glory? Lol. Thats bullshet Polygamist 😂
I never met FLDS people but they sound like Modern day people who are "Following the traditions of their Fathers", just like the Lamanites did in the blessed BOM. We probably share the same values of loving god and loving thy neighbour, no different from any other faiths. Stay blessed FLDS people.
Blessed BOM lol. I love the book of mormon, it just is funney to immagine someone reading that out of context and thinking ur talking about an explosive. Not that ur comment is bad tho.
Live the truth ! Follow your heart do not let the world dictate what’s right or wrong ! The GLTS movement is supposedly about a quality ?? So why is it such a taboo if this is your truth - the person that claims to know the truth speak 🗣. I know my truth, my fear is God not man, we are all lost, it’s our duty to follow our truth that will inevitably lead to GOD
lolz 😂had the same experience questioning mainstream lds and later on in my marriage trying not to give in nope she won and had her bi-girl friend living with us, i found i was a better person with both than single or monogamy but as my coworkers thought ( i had 6 wifes and 12 kid's lolz 😂nope 1 wife 0-kids ) im not trying more than 3 wife's i just can't keep up mentally lol
I live near a large group of FLDS in Southern Utah, they have a town all to themselves just across the Arizona border. We see first hand here how many of the teen boys are thrown out so more young brides are available to the older men. We call them the 'lost boys'. Most of these homeless boys turn to drugs until St. George charities rehabilitate and care for them as the boys will allow. We've seen boys as young as 12 being abandoned by their families. And horrifically, many of them commit suicide. If anyone, male or female leaves the group, they are kept from seeing their children, their siblings and their parents -once they escape or are kicked out, they can't ever come back. What I take even greater issue with is how their women are treated. Their women are not allowed to speak to outsiders, they will not usually smile or respond if you're friendly in a store or gas station. They don't let their women continue their educations into high-school levels which makes it much harder for them to have connections, or have the ability to get work if they want to leave. They teach everyone at special FLDS schools and they don't allow them to read or watch outside media. They marry the girls off very young, even underage; and the FLDS have made national headlines with the FBI investigating them for mass pedophilia. The FLDS don't bring in new members very often and so the birth defects due to inbreeding are horrific. What we hear from the defected and abandoned members is that almost half the children born have defects, learning disabilities and health problems directly because Uncles are married to their nieces and first cousins are being married to each other. One girl I know of had three children with her own father, the birth records show she was pregnant with the first child when she was only 13. It makes me cringe when people get our churches confused. Sure, we have some history and beliefs in common; but the policies of the FLDS hurts teen boys, hurts families and enslave women. I'm a woman and a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, I have always felt respected and appreciated as a single woman. I've never been pressured to be married, to be ignorant or to be isolated. The Relief Society, a group run by women within the church and lead by women is the biggest women's organization in the world. My church encourages women to educate themselves, the church schools and online college programs gives scholarships equally to men and women. The church would never tell us to avoid contact with a family member if they believe differently. All this goes to show me that while one church is run by lustful men, the fruits of Christ's church are good. No matter that we started at the same place and use many of the same scriptures. The attitude of the leadership and therefore church policies is worlds apart -we likely have far more values in common with Baptists than FLDS.
I had a coworker who had run away from the fLDS church with her family. They threatened to separate them when they were changing some sort of bounderies, and they would not be able to contact them ever again. This was their final straw. They decided to leave then and there, but they had to plan it out very carefully, because their every move was closely monitored by town and church leaders. I fear it's truly strayed very far from God in their practices.
You may live near the flds but your post shows that you don’t actually know any personally. So many of the things you said are totally inaccurate or at least a little skewed. I have flds friends that live in Southern Utah and they are honest and decent people. They generally like to keep to themselves and not try to force their beliefs on others. Media and outsiders usually just make up stories and inaccurate allegations based on stories from disgruntled former members or their own opinions of what it must be like in the flds church.
I dated a guy who had left Colorado City and he was the nicest guy in the world. Many of his brothers had left as well. Anyways, my dad left the church before they had changed a lot of their teachings and what was taught not that many years ago was absolutely what the FLDS still believe. Why do you think Utah is home to LDS? They had to come here to avoid persecution for their "strange" beliefs. If you think not being polygamous anymore was for any other reason than to achieve statehood, you have been hoodwinked. It even states in the current teachings that men can still have multiple wives in the Celestial Kingdom. If polygamy was no longer practiced, how could that be? FLDS is not a splinter group. Like it or not, FLDS is closer to the teachings of the original group than mainstream LDS will ever be. Hence the F for Fundamental (meaning it never changed). If a church were "true", why would it need changing?
@@lydiadewberry7328 Even though the FLDS church is a much smaller group of people, they definitely do live closer to the original teachings of Joseph Smith than the LDS church.
@@danielstark8356 that's my main beef with the mainstream lds is it's looking more like a uk church of English as i see it's lost it's way in attempt to get along with it's neighbour and governments ect polygamist are 👍but don't force all the membership to participate as some will pick it and some will choose not to and the biblical correct as its okay to but not commanded to
If you guys want to learn more or better information about fundamentalist groups I would highly recommend the survivors podcast. It’s really good for learning about these groups in depth. I would also add that fundamentalist groups (as far as I know) do not accept black people what so ever.
And neither the mainstream accepted black people when I was a child. And black people can't receive priesthood in mainstream today. The mainstream changed the original doctrine (plural marriage).
I know many Mormon Fundamentalist independents who do accept black people, and believe that they can have the Priesthood. I know of one of these who recently took a black woman as a second wife.
My grandfather grew up in the LDS church, he left but his siblings all stayed in the church. My great aunt and he husband are still in the church but at this point almost every child of theirs has left the church and they aren't even as extreme as the FLDS church. I've been watching Escaping Polygamy and I just feel so bad for anyone dealing with the side they show on that docuseries.
Also, I expect the same flaw to be overcome. The splinter groups that call themselves RLDS still have a more interesting takeaway, imao, and would be far more interesting than "they denied the testimony of almost thirty women for a hundred years, then decided that they didn't really believe their Church was true, so they gave a priesthood they didn't care about to homosexuals and women as a token prize for hanging in there and to snatch up LDS Feminists on their way to Atheism,"
@@TheCutiepuffs oh, yeah. I think I coined "imao" (in my arrogant opinion. I was just shocked when I investigated them. The one missionaries literally told me that all of Joseph's wives were lying in the Temple lot case. All of them. Couldn't be trusted. I don't believe in religious discrimination. I've just had extremely shocking and hard experiences, and have learned some, imao, disgusting doctrines out of their group and out of Islam. Same with every fundementalist church I've seen. No organized body of Mormons affirms polygamy without also affirming curse of Cain theology, which is inherently racist and contradictory to foundation understandings of agency. It's actually calvinist, as is their understanding of plural marriage (God decided which of you will have how many wives, and God also said you need this many wives to get into heaven. Hence he's decided who will go before you were ever born) The splinters are mixed in their acceptance of the reality that Polygyny happened, and one even claims to have the prophesied Son of Aaron, Presidency Bishop by Descent.
Michael Acton Oh yea the RLDS’ long standing denial of polygamy is just... odd. From my understanding since their reformation in 2000 they’re a bit more historically open. I just think it’s cool to see all the variations of Mormonism that exist, especially from the Utah church perspective. That’s why i’d like to see the video!
Guys there is a family channel called april and davey .. April was raised in the flds but she is now lds.. u could message her as she may be willing to help you
What you guys said is pretty accurate. I come from a fundamentalist Mormon family and one of the things I was taught why we didn't belong to the mainstream church was because the church wanted to follow the world. I was taught to reject the outside world and that my family's church and other fundamentalist groups had the "truth" and our leaders held the keys of the priesthood handed down through Joseph Smith.
how does the missionary function for the FLDS/non-mainstream ? as im curiosity's about the faith being i was rased mainstream lds but not full happy with it but also not sure i would want to leave it definitely not Protestant ( maybe Jewish but i like pork ect so not a great fit for me ) or full atheist im just feeling out of placement as polygamy/ect isn't acceptable in the mainstream lds and it's bothered me as a 6yo-nowadays
Yes, and Brigham Young believed it too, so I don't really blame them. I love Brigham Young's teachings, but the Adam-God theory is ridiculous and it's so sad to think about how much confusion it has caused.
@@chrissessions6108 Don't call it ridiculous. Brigham himself in 1852 General Conference said: "Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation." (Journal of Discourses vol. 1 p. 51) - He said not to make light of them or treat them with indifference for they will prove our salvation. You can't treat them with indifference and be saved.
The main stream Mormons do believe in placement wives except we say it will happen in the resurrection. Joseph smith jr taught that the only way into the highest kingdom of God except through plural marriage. It's safe to say that flds have stayed true to Joseph smith's teachings where as the mainstream Mormons have strayed from joesph smith's teachings. God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow. And again the flds have remained the same and mainstream Mormons are always changing.
@@getharryonsax Section 132 mentions the doctrine of the New and Everlasting covenant, which is marriage, but only states that one is to be married under both federal law, AND His law. It only touches the whole "many wives" thing once at the start, and the rest of the chapter is dedicated to laying out how one is to be legally married under His law. Verse 19 even says "...if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise..." It only mentions one wife, so it works with the doctrine of today's LDS belief.
@@getharryonsax It doesn't say anywhere that the law of polygamy is everlasting. He even says that he will address it again later, as stated in Vs. 66: "And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present..." I can't see anywhere in there that it says the law of polygamy is everlasting.
@@getharryonsax Agreed. Prophets have had the saints practice polygamy for a short time. The quote above is stating that prophets have never stated that polygamy was required by everyone who ever and will ever live to gain exhaltation, however. Section 132 has the temporary law of polygamy separated from the eternal law of marriage by an address to Emma Smith to point out which will be eternally required, as opposed to temporary commands. That's why the verses that address the new and everlasting covenant don't mention multiple wives, just one.
@@getharryonsax K, now is it saying that polygamy is required under the new and everlasting covenant? Or under the fact that it was a commandment to the early saints, and not under the covenant of marriage?
@@getharryonsax Ok, here's where I disagree. My understanding of this section, is that it opens with the Lord addressing the Prophet's concerns, and stating that he'll elaborate. Then, he lays down the law of the New and Everlasting Covenant of marriage, applicable to the temporary law of polygamy. He addresses Emma Smith after this, and instructs her to be faithful. Finally, he explains to Joseph why polygamy, when commanded, is acceptable under certain conditions. This is my interpretation, and makes the most sense to me.
I always find it sad to think about those who where in plural marriages when they said "no more". Of course people would leave. They were/are families. Unfortunately this lead them off into darkness from the prophet and new revelations and developments. And there are so many different FLDS groups it's crazy. Like Rockland Ranch is one, near where I live. And they do not drink there. It is not allowed. But they do drink coffee or at least some do. But they are totally normal as in the way they dress. Like you'd see them in public and would never know them from Adam
The original FLDS that broke away from the LDS wanted to keep things the way Joseph Smith said GOD told them to be. Now the FLDS believed in what Joseph Smith told them and Joseph not getting any of this from GOD could just up and change any part of the LDS and all he has to say is that he got a revelation from GOD and no one was allowed to question it.
What I find amusing is the amount of care and caution taken so as to represent the FLDS viewpoint appropriately. Now if only they would show the same care and tact when dealing with Christianity, we might be able to have a respectful dialogue.
@@davidjanbaz7728 ummm no one I know does that, and I have extensive experience in this area. I don't think those were Mormon men in straw hats and suspenders. Maybe it was the local FLDS or Amish community!
@@BrendonKing Not that I would seek to speak ill of anyone that I don't personally know and have an understanding of, but it isn't necessarily true that speaking ill of the FLDS, or RLDS groups is automatically speaking ill of LDS history. there has been like 100 years of different practices and teachings between the differing LDS sects, so there is plenty to critique without speaking ill of their communal histories from before they split. In fact the nature and justifications for those splits is a good place to start when critiquing the separate histories of each sect.
david janbaz I don’t know! That sounds pretty crazy, maybe they were just wearing suspenders and stuff for style or something? That’s not the clothing I’ve ever seen at the temples in Michigan or Utah!
FLDS kept the original beliefs of MORMONISM and the teaching of Prophet Joseph Smith....Polygamy was later abolished by the Latter Day Saints in the early 1900s.
The policy used to be that if a man's genealogy could be traced back to Africa, then he could not receive the priesthood. The Church started to really take off in Brazil in the mid-1900s, so it was becoming a real headache to try to draw the line for the seed of Cain, and they desperately needed more priesthood holders with all the new wards and stakes being formed. So basically, we have the faithfulness of the mixed race people in Brazil to thank for the change.
@@BrendonKing That's not exactly how this or many other revelations work... The records indicate that the President Kimball "entreated the Lord on the matter often" and the answer He often got was that the brothern must be unified. Therefore because there were some known to have racist tendencies, in the then openly racist culture, it was not likely that the brothern were going to be unified on that matter. until 1978 when they were in fact unified. several of those brothern later spoke out about it. McConkie said that he believed what he thought to be true, but that when the Lord speaks you listen, indicating that though he may still have had some racist tendencies he understood that it was wrong and that he needed to change. others such as Heber J. Grant and David O. McKay, said that they knew even before 1978 it was to be a temporary restriction and that when the time was right it would be lifted. and there is in fact no mention of any revelation creating the restriction, but rather info showing it may have in fact been imposed due to racist or pro-slavery pressure from the government at the time of Brigham young. Smith ran for president in 1844 as an abolitionist and was under political persecution for that alone. so it makes sense that the church would be under pressure to follow the pro-slavery culture and desires of the government that has authority over them, and is persecuting them.. not to mention the very racist culture that persisted throughout that time. Lincoln only sought to do away with slavery because it was causing more issues than if they were all free men, and half the nation was so racist that they started a civil war over it. and that wasn't for another 20+ years after Smith tried to teach about the equality of all men both black and white. several prophets between Young and Kimball indicated that though they knew of no revelation restricting it they didn't want to over turn a policy and practice decision of Young without a clear revelation. and don't forget that even up until the late 1960's Jim crow segregation laws were enforced and racism was still very rampant throughout the entire nation. so lets not pretend like the leaders of the church were not influenced by their culture, or that those of the culture would have been accepting of the change much earlier than when it took place. it's not like Lincoln won the civil war to emancipate the slaves and everyone was magically not racist anymore except the leaders of the LDS church.
@@harambeboy "Also in 1978 I believe the Church was about to lose tax exempt status from the US over discrimination laws." Urban legend. The KKK is still tax exempt. In fact the protests of the early 70's had stopped by the time the Revelation was received in '78.
There were two main groups, and about a dozen active groups came off those. FLDS has arranged marriage, but that's relatively recent in development. The Allred group and most fundementalists don't. Most polygamists are independents. I can provide numbers to multiple Church's missionaries, and they'd love to share with you.
This was such a great video! Lots of fun to watch! I definitely vote in favor of more videos about splinter groups. This kind of thing really fascinates me!
5:50 ... Joseph Smith LITERALLY did this to several VERY young girls, as young as 14. My wife is from a line of Mormons that lead back to a girl of 15 that Joseph did this to.
Well if you research the early plural marriages of JS, then you would know that he that they were told that they would have to wait until they were 19 before they could be with him as a wife.
@@joshuaboehner4652 So you feel the girls in question were lying? We have their journals. Both went on to have plural marriages to other men as adults. And back in the 1800's 14 was considered legal. JS preached sermons that men who married young wives, (which was even more common outside the LDS community than within) should wait until the wife was 19 to consummate. Rather progressive for his time.
Also he never had revelation to marry his 14 year old wife. The father asked Joseoh to marry his daughter. And even then they were never in the same room without a chaperone
@@brettmajeske3525 14 is also considered legal today in some circumstances. It doesn't make it right. Also the average marriage age for women was around 22. There's a lot of mental gymnastics to try and have Joseph be a good man for being a pedophile.
Polygamist is not good, imagine if you have a husband, are you willing to sex to other men of the church like a prophet of the church 😂 if you have a kids male and female they both sex each other did you accept that kind of idiotically cult. Thats fucking bullshet.
yah they got it wrong 🤦🏻♂ my class mate ruth wore maykup💄 ( she didn't advertise that she was lds or religion ect ) and juilray/ear rings ect but yes she dressed 👗differently from the others in school my background is main-lds but no originally it was optional ( some have taken this out of context to be short, same way for kids "be fruitful and multiply " but really that's under 15 kids as xy= you suck at parenting and need to stop adding more kids to the marriage for me maximum is 6kid's total ) to have 1-4 wife's my ( pre1920's ) great grandparents were polygamist and yes the church has lost it's way and that needs to come back , for me ( im a theist* as i can't see being another religion for now as im morality trying to be consistent in my belief's and now picking a "winning team" for that sunday/week ) and my non religious/nondenominational Christen wife i ended up living with her Christen bi girl friend and yes 👍it works out for us ( vs me trying to force monogamy ect ) ( im a better husband/person in polly vs monogamy vs bachelor ) better and no it's not for everyone even if you're lds/religious the church's do a bad job of explaining how the mainstream lds ( as in main-lds it's not talked about and the polygamy/brake-off's are evil and don't talk to them ect, btw not fair some are good people ) is different than flds or early/mo-brake-offs are different than them and iv had coworker's ask me and i didn't have a answer to them ( that whys im watching the video to learning something new ) and some where anti-lds and not having the answers made it worsened to the church and me and some others would join but afterward saying that the mainstream doesn't practice xy= thing's like polygamy are flipped against the lds church after saying that but are okay with me
Also the Teaching that a A man most enter to polygamy to get into the highest degree of glory can be traced back to Brigham Young. Joseph Smith told some his wives that he got a revelation that he was supposed to marry them. Be careful what stones you throw here.
Context is vital for analyzing things said by past leaders. If you look at the context in which Brigham Young was saying that, he was referring to the act of condemning a commandment given by God, which in this case, happened to be polygamy. To go against any commandment is to deny one's self the ability to return to Heaven. However, once polygamy was done away with, the necessity to follow that commandment was no longer needed for Heaven to be achieved. The discussion these guys had in this video is no different than if the ancient 12 apostles were discussing how the archaic teachings of the Law of Moses were still followed by the Pharisees.
@@_My_UA-cam I guess .. I think the FLDS and AUB would argue that it never went.. Mostly based on the John Taylor revelation in 1886...which I'm disappointed they didn't mention
@@coalhouse1981 There are a few issues with the John Taylor revelation. Not only do we have no original copy, but it was also discovered after his death, leaving us without any certainty he actually wrote it. If it was actually valid, John Taylor never discussed it with anyone, and it was never canonized into the Church. Secondly, the revelation talks about the law of the new and everlasting covenant, which is not synonymous with polygamy and based on context through additional scripture, most likely referred to the gospel covenant, as referred to several times throughout the Doctrine and Covenants (and is also mentioned in the Bible a few times). I can understand what you're saying regarding the FLDS and others arguing it validates their desires to continue polygamy. Unfortunately for them, all the surrounding context, however, seems to disagree with that notion.
@@_My_UA-camyou are half right. Handwriting anaylis has proven that John Taylor wrote it. You are right that we only have copies. You are right that we don't have evidence of the secret ordinations other that the statement from the Wooleys. As I said before the stuff attached to the 1886 relevation is a lot harder to verify. But I would liked to see a discussion of it at least since its so important to Fundamentalists claims
@@coalhouse1981 That's a fair point, and I agree would make for an interesting discussion. Maybe you should petition to have them do a Faith and Beliefs episode on it.
Legitimate question: how much of both faiths/ belief systems come from Scripture alone? Do you all receive the Holy Spirit to help navigate truth from false? Do you all commune with Abba (Father God) in your own personal time to ask him if this is okay? Or is this all passed down by man?
Both things. We read the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you understand more of each other by reading them as complementary. We also hear from the leaders of the church and they hear from the holy spirit, but we can and shall seek for personal revelation through the holy spirit and feith as well.
Is it true that when you take communion you replace the grape juice with water meaning you denied the blood of Jesus that was shed for you sins,You Mormons need to get down on your nees and repent to God.Amen I will pray for all of you.
The FLDS just seem to be sticking to the original LDS beliefs which is fair enough really. The mainstream church just caved in to pressure to give up polygamy.
@ 5:49 you said “I hate when people say ... I prayed and God said I needed to marry you ....”. Isn’t that exactly what Joseph Smith did? He manipulated young girls by saying God said so. You should read the Happiness Letter.
FLDS hold to all original teaching of Joseph's Myth. But by 1897 the SLC Mormons had abandoned every vestige of the "true and everlasting restoration":::. Adoption, polygamy, blood atonement, consecration, communalism, millennialism,Adam-God, were all gone.
I would say it a little differently myself, I would say a man (the Prophet of the time not sure which one) said God told him polygamy was right and should be practiced, then later another man (a different Prophet that they mentioned in the video) said it wasn't to be practiced as it wasn't the time, and now it is I believe a basis for excommunication if as a member you practice polygamy. That in turn brings up many questions that we don't (or at least I don't) know the answer to, like is polygamy correct just not at the moment or was it never correct and the first Prophet was wrong. The main thing I remember when thinking about this is all the members of the church from the Prophet down to me are all human and can make mistakes, so whilst I have no idea what and i'm not in the position for God to tell me what as its not my responsibility i'm sure there will be some things in the church that were not instructions from God, this may sound like a big problem but it really isn't as whilst people aren't perfect God's plan is and he has asked us to follow the words of the Prophets, as such if we are doing something that isn't exactly what God wants for the church and we don't personally know we shouldn't do it, if it is following what the Prophet has asked of us we will not be judged poorly for it, so basically if God's Prophet guides us to behave in a way we should strive to do it. Hope that makes some sense but its 5am here so maybe totally impossible to understand.
Have you read the Bible? Because that's exactly how polygamy works in the Bible. I don't claim to understand God's purposes in establishing polygamy, but he has definitely done so repeatedly. Kinda like how God commanded Abraham to kill his son. Not a moral action under normal circumstances. But Abraham's willingness to slay his son like an animal was counted as righteousness.
@@systematicrisk We don't know that. There has been speculation both for and against why that may be true or false; but the Church has no doctrines or teachings supporting that theory.
So what about Joseph's Smith? The lds honors him as the prophet , but he was a false prophet. So no matter the splinter groups or not , they all are told Smith was a prophet . Lots of teachings of the lds is really just made up imagination of men passing it off as divine. People eat it up because the gospel is to simple. So let's add a bunch of works and man made teachings , and let's make sure to brainwash people from a young age to never question the lds doctrines and practiced. So big deal the main lds doesn't practice polygamy . They still teach false doctrine Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers . Elohim having g physical sex with Mary to give Jesus a body. Just crazy stuff and not biblical .
Joseph Smith CLEARLY taught polygamy in D&C 132. He along with multiples of Presidents of the church practiced it. He is clearly revered as THE prophet of THE one true church. The official proclamation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is that the church does not endorse nor practice polygamy. There is a clear disparity here. If you call yourself a Mormon or a Latter Day Saint and you believe that Joseph wrote the Doctrine and Covenants and was inspired by God to write it then you HAVE TO BELIEVE in the practice of polygamy. The Doctrine and Covenants also clearly teaches in the same chapter that Celestial exaltation can only be achieved through plural marriage. Does it not seem entirely hypocritical to say as a Latter Day Saint that you don’t practice polygamy but the majority of leadership in past days in the Latter Day Saints practiced polygamy and believed Celestial exaltation could ONLY be achieved with multiple wives? You can’t have it both ways. What is the answer?
So why did the founder of the LDS church take many wives? I find this to be one of the more perplexing LDS doctrines. I don't believe in continuous revelation. God is, was and will always will be the same. Hence my UA-cam handle.
@@audrey3729 Sorry, but that sounds like polygamous apologetics or something. God instituted a one man, one woman marriage at the beginning. He tolerated, but never commanded (except apparently in the book of Mormon), polygamy. In fact Solomon was said to be driven further from God because of his fleshly desires and having so many wives. Abraham had an affair on his wife because he didn't trust God. The prophets clearly aren't perfect and when does God start talking and they stop? We are told to judge a prophet or leader by their fruit and I don't think polygamy bears good fruit. It demeans women to child-bearing objects more or less. And just because something was done, doesn't mean God approved or desired it. He may have "permitted" it. But this is a fact we see this again throughout the Bible.
@@audrey3729 I thought he permitted it because of divine revelation? That is what another video from SU stated. It's also in the doctrine and covenants.
It's all good. Thank you for responding. I appreciate hearing from a proponent of LDS theology vs one of its detractors. There was another Saints Unscripted video (the shorter one) that spoke of polygamy and mentioned Smith's visions regarding it.
well according to d&c 132 it is essential for our exaltation to practice it and according to Joseph Smith said: "If anything should have been suggested by us * * * except by commandment, or thus saith the Lord, we do not consider it binding." (Church History Vol. 3:295) and as we read the manifestation it clearly doesn't say that and d&c 98 7-6 it says Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; 7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil. there's a secret there the lds church lost all presthood with the 7th present just like John Taylor said it would there's a difference between presthood and the church that law is for the presthood not the church
Is there a reason FLDS is so conservative with their dressing yet Kingston, AUB, etc, are not? Their principles seem very similar and that’s the big takeaway I see. Just curious.
it is a different interpretation and understanding of the principle of "modesty". Some see it as being modest in all aspects (cost, color, appearance, coverage, etc.) and others see it as modest in only certain aspects (coverage only).
Three or more wives?? You have got to be kidding me, lol. I know a lot of flds men that only have one wife and they are just as accepted in the church as those with more than one...also, the flds people do not believe in polygamy which is that a spouse of either sex my have more than one partner at the same time. They do believe in plural marriage which is that a man can have more than one wife...
It's true that they are accepted, but always with the understanding that one day they will receive more wives! In home economics class Warren Jeffs said, "ladies, you will not be able to enter the highest degree in the celestial kingdom unless your husband has other wives! You need to learn to be accepting of them and learn to get along!"
If you really want to know something about someone don't ask there ex especially if their ex hates them. Like the books and movies put out about the FLDS. If you really want to know if they are "FLDS" ask them they will tell you. if they are they will stive to uphold each and every fundamental principle of the church. The word of wisdom should be upheld to live up to the standards! And violence against innocent people(children or wives) is not ever right. Most of the people who have left the FLDS didn't understand it. "The letter of the law killeth but the spirit of the law bringeth life." We as humans are not each others judge of where we end up in heaven but i see it that we will go to live with the people we are like.
you should read some memoirs from ex-flds people. They are super interesting testimonies. The most extreme groups are a bit secretive about things, so to understand it ex-members’ views are enlightening. I would recommend “the witness wore red” by rebecca muser, “escape” and “triumph” by carolyn jessop, and “breaking free” by rachel jeffs. “Prophet’s prey” by sam brower and jon krakauer is also great!
Or, to be fair, read something from one of the hundreds of groups that don't abuse their women and children. Rick Bennett used to interview a few of them regularly.
Michael Acton even if its only a small few who abuse their women and children (which is hard to know) I think it’s important to hear that and know about it. The books also talk about their daily lives and religious beliefs. Also, if you trust wikipedias numbers the AUD and FLDS church, which most of these testimonies come from, are the largest in terms of population. I will for sure check those interviews out though, it is important to hear about the diversity within the FLDS and not paint them all with one brush
@@TheCutiepuffs key point. The FLDS are generally more commonly abusive. Only one group is referred to as FLDS, and if you only follow the AUB and the FLDS, you will miss more than 80% of the population, most of which do not follow a church or prophet.
Michael Acton ok fair! It’s a lot easier to follow organized groups than independent individuals, at least as an outsider. The video is also called FLDS vs LDS so I was assuming they were mostly talking about the organized churches with prophets
@@TheCutiepuffs I agree. This isn't an issue you created, or one that they created. The political force that is Utah Mormon culture has tried to oversimplify and dehumanize the situation into an us verses them where we are the innocent monogamist and the only polygamists are these pioneer dressed crazies and the muslims. I'm a bit jaded, but it's not your fault or theirs. But I think they are some of the only people capable of fixing it.
Remember when Jesus Christ first started his church? It only took a few decades for people to take his teachings and start dozens of different churches all striving to follow the same gospel. It doesn't mean Jesus did anything wrong, it just means that people screwed it up later. Same thing can be applied to the church started by Joseph Smith, provided that he really was acting as a prophet for Jesus Christ. There will always be people in the church who choose to separate themselves and go their own way, but with the lack of heavenly revelation they are going to screw some things up. That doesn't mean that there is necessarily anything wrong with the church. Logic, yo.
because people make choices. the prophet can't control whether or not people go off and make their own groups. Jesus didn't control others with different religious viewpoints/philosophies.
The CES letter gives some interesting information on polygamy, like, even though the lds church supposedly stopped polygamy in 1889, they had secret polygamist marriages up until 1915.
@@chaseallen7499 yes. Marriage certificates, journal entries, and the church even admits to it. The CES letter gives documentation to everything it brings up. Also, most of the questions in there were also brought up by church historian B. H. Roberts nearly 100 years before.
Ok kiddies, kiddies... I shall do a rebuttal video to this and explain the history oh the 1890’s and how Polygamy was actually done away with and WHY The FLDS split... its common historical knowledge IF you’re willing to look at history books and look at the situation OBJECTIVELY and not trying to prove a point
Craziest thing though.. is that if you read what Brigham Young and Orson Pratt taught, in general conference as well as broadly as well as what Joseph Smith did and lied in public and notarized statements about not doing is what fundamentalists largely continued. (Joseph kept polygamy a secret VIP club, denied doing it publicly and with signatures including those of apostles who also secretly practiced; in an official proclamation to the world [total lie].-> one of his apostles didn't like the lie and called him on it -> excommunicated -> pissed off and worried he starts printing press to tell people Joseph lied and was definately practicing polygamy -> Joseph Smith gets pissed and burns printing press -> Joseph arrested for treason -> Joseph murdered not for BOM but for polygamy and marrying living men's wives by mobs of people) FLDS pretty much continued mormonism as was taught from Joseph to Brigham if the US government hadn't threatened to essentially invade Utah and take big Wilf and SLC out, if they didn't stop polygamy.. The manifesto wasn't just walk in the park revelation... it was entirely because Wilford knew his options were A) Die or go to federal prison with the twelve apostles or B) stop polygamy. With very few options was birthed a very extorted manifesto. Not revelation.. just concession to the power of man. Up to that point polygamy was absolutely taught as "the way"... which is how polygamy was sold to the early women who didn't want it but fell privy to religious manipulation just as hordes continue to do today free of history and just dynamic and remixed religion to fill the pot holes.. such as Fanny Alger and the timeline of sealing power vs when Emma discovered her and Joseph in the Barn together.. coupled with Oliver Cowdery's personal letter of condemnation to Joseph (him sort of inconveniently being a very reputable witness directly around the circumstances then...) as one humble example. We all know the twelve today have read The book of Napoleon and The great War and are terrified at how they both predated the BOM, sound nearly identical, with the latter even being read in public schools in New York in Joseph's immediate childhood.. as you go up that leadership chain you see why those before you hid so much.. and they continue to hide and deceive solid root robots.. just like I used to be. Fill those potholes or tell stories of how there never existed such a thing. Same spin.
There are many FLDS people who use the words plural marriage and celestial marriage interchangeably. My grandma’s first marriage was a plural marriage but it was definitely not celestial, her husband stopped loving her when he married his second wife and the two ladies just didn’t get along. When my grandma married the second time she married the brother of her first husband as his second wife. She never lived in the same house as his first wife but he cared for all of her children, weather they were his or not, the same as he cared for the children of his first wife. She eventually left her second husband because she believe that Waren Jeffs was The prophet of God and he would not recognize Jeffs as a prophet. Grandma tries not to see her “apostate” children but Grandpa has never been afraid to see any of his children. My Grandma had two plural marriages and they both came to and end, celestial marriage is supposed to be something that doesn’t end. My point is that there is more to celestial marriage than the number of wives a man has and that’s not exactly taught in many groups.
Seems like Mormons are more interested in the system of exaltation(becoming gods) then in God Himself. Kinda of self centered and selfish religion. Its kind of makes sense since its different god to begin with. Feels like the Mormon gods are not worthy of worship at all since you talk so little of them and a lot about yourselves.
What about ✨c e l e s t i a l ✨ polygamy? When a widower is remarried and sealed to another woman for example... Y’all (including your prophet) practice that.
DDFStar The hosts really tried to distance themselves from the FLDS practice of polygamy... Just seems odd when y’all technically still practice it 🤷🏼♀️
@emptybusseat They practice a trickier version of polygamy, where they can't be attacked by governments and they can smokescreen Christian apologists who try to claim the LDS church isn't Christian itself.
You guys should strike iron while it is hot. Do a video about what the church has been counseled to consume with regards to media (especially in light of "Cuties"). I bet it would get a lot of views. I have seen a number of so-called members of this church defend such outrageous garbage, calling the rest of us close-minded for not having seen the movie. Do we need to watch it to know that it is absolute filth? Just look at the parental warning put out on Netflix. That in and of itself should be enough to convince every member of the church to stay away from such garbage. Absolutely disgusted.
Baptism like Matt 3:13 shows all three persons of the Holy Trinity present. Baptism is essential for salvation. Sacred Scripture came to us through the Catholic Church with the canon compiled in 397 council of Carthage. Sacred Scripture is Within Sacred Tradition carried from the Apostles through apostalic succession and carried with great saints like Augustine, Francis, and Thomas Aquinas. The Didache and the Dead Sea Scrolls give credibility to the validity of the One Church started by Jesus Himself, and the story never changed. The attacks have been relentless, but 266 Popes later give you the truth. You know in your heart that this is the One True Church. New Testament is Covenant where Jesus substituted Himself for the perfect passover lamb. You have to Eat His Flesh to have life within you. 7 sacraments for Grace. Drop what you're doing and come follow Christ - the second Person of the Trinity. Try to imagine Sacred Scripture brought to the world by the Catholic Church. Not to be tampered with, nor adding or subtracting anything. It's a Catholic Document of the Church Christ started. Find a Church near you and get Baptized. PAX
Yep the Trinity is a widely misunderstood concept. I find plenty of evangelical Christians don’t get this right and adopt an incorrect modalist approach.
Is there an actual non-political explanation for why suddenly polygamy was not okay anymore after it was okay? I mean, if God let you stop it for a while to survive, that's one thing, but then it's still not fundamentally wrong. There'd be then no real reason why the ban couldn't be lifted in the present day if a state referendum legalized the practice.
At the time, there were very few members of the church, so polygamy was partially to help grow the church. And it was unsafe for women to travel with out a husband. Since that is no longer the case, it is no longer necessary or proper to have more than one spouse.
@@audrey3729 That seems really ad hoc. If the reason was women's safety of travel, then they could have just recruited more men to make up the difference, so that the ratio would still be 1:1.
I mean think about it. By your line of reasoning more men in the group would mean that the group as a whole would have greater protection. Then perhaps polygamy would be the exceptional case for widows.
@@thegoodlydragon7452 they couldn't just recruit more men. That's not how it works. Men were being killed just because they were members of the lds church. They were extremely persecuted. They definitely tried to grow the church through teachings and conversion, but at that time it wasn't that easy. And it still isn't.
Yes but we have to make the distinction between physical polygamy and spiritual sealings. You can't just say Mormons still practice polygamy because the usage of that word is still primarily understood as physically having multiple bitches. We need to come up with a word that distinguishes both words
@@yuinasweakestsoldier While I agree with the general sentiment, I disagree with your language choices. This channel's community guidelines does list profanity as one of the reasons for postings to be removed.
The difference is very simple, my friend: the mainstream changed the original doctrine for convenience (plural marriage) and covered up original texts.
Don't know if you guys are readers it there are two books that I have read written by ex-LDS members. Escape by Carolyn Jessop and Lost Boy by Brent Jeffs. There are tough parts in both, it's a dark world but very informative if you want to explore their world. Maybe you could even reach out and invite one or both of them on the show. That would be very interesting.
Also, most are fairly liberal in a lot of ways. Politically, most are for the religious freedom arguement for gay marriage. They clearly believe in a form of planned economy in most groups. Other than that, I don't think conservative is an accurate description, though modest and traditional would be.
@@TheCutiepuffs technically, it's flawed. The United Order as taught was designed bro be agency based stewardship over personal property with the understanding that any may ask of you and you may ask of any, with the Church only acting as legal owner of goods to prevent allegations of theft. That's my take anyway, no more valid than theirs.
I'd have to agree with Michael as well. Any time a government has imposed a forced charity, and we as the people haven't given freely and given a chance to exercise charity, we have seen it be the means of depriving us of agency and the practice of unrighteous dominion begins--it's never been shown otherwise. Our understanding of scripture supports this as well. That's my two cents.
the church said that black members couldn't take part of the priesthood originally, then God changed it up later? got it. Alma 3:6-9 "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men. And their brethren sought to destroy them, therefore they were cursed; and the Lord God set a mark upon them, yea, upon Laman and Lemuel, and also the sons of Ishmael, and Ishmaelitish women. And this was done that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren, that thereby the Lord God might preserve his people, that they might not mix and believe in incorrect traditions which would prove their destruction. And it came to pass that whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed. you can't say white is purity because in 3 Nephi 2:15 "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became "white like unto the Nephites" (conversion of Lamanites) 12th President of the LDS church, Spencer W. Kimball said, "At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents-on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. . . 4. These young [p. 9] members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-23).
I can't tell what your intention is here, but I'll offer a reply ignoring whatever it might be.. The Lord has dealt with race in His own ways. More questions put it into perspective. Why was the gospel reserved to the Jews and not shared with the gentiles for a time? Why was the Levitical priesthood only had among the Levites? Why did prophets like Moroni receive direction to stand as a witness only and not establish the Lords church among the people at that time? And why did the Lord use the color of his people's skin to divide different people from false or sinful traditions and people who would be filled with hatred for a respective people of righteousness. It was clear from history that it was not simply the latter question (and the examples you gave) we are dealing with and how we should understand. If so, all members would be white as a mark that is consistent to divide the righteous from the wicked. Whenever necessary, the curse was removed. Whenever not necessary it wasn't, but God established what was good. And clearly and deeply we rejoiced when the word was given that all worthy members would receive these blessings. If you actually want to understand study: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng (and study prayerfully.) = ).
@@BrendonKing It was only policy, never doctrine. Doctrines are eternal truths required for our salvation, like baptism. Look it up if you don't believe Eric or myself.
@@_My_UA-cam I believe you two are in the incorrect here. If it truly was "just a policy", then you wouldn't have needed an official declaration added to the Doctrine and Covenants disavowing that "policy". Sorry I hold your leaders to a higher standard than you guys, I guess.
You guys are a bit whooshed at the moment I think If I say that "Humility is better than Chastity" does that mean that Chastity is bad? What does it mean? Should someone really be saying "Or have both" in that situation as an optimal response??? Of course not. The quote is hammering home on Humility being good, by comparing it to something that is also very good. If it's used in the right context, like someone bragging about their chastity, it can have an additional meaning. If you read the proverbs, sometimes things like apples and oranges are compared and that's fine. They CAN be compared. "Better to have wisdom than gold" Is a good example. (Why not both?!?!?!?!? LOL) What I like about the quote is that it emphasizes attitude and hypocrisy. Many people that call Joseph Smith a false prophet for his polygamy are they themselves engaging in porn (thousands of girls not 28) and are mishandling their God given gift of a single spouse, which contains overall worse sins than what they are accusing Joseph Smith of having. Because of the hypocrisy of their own sexual sins and misconduct of wive(s), they should not be talking (see Matthew 7:1-5)
I am a former FLDS member, I left when I was 17 in 2018 so I’ve been out for a few years now. There are so many false and inaccurate stories and claims about that place. I was surprised with how accurate you guys are, a little off but not too far.
Hey thats pretty cool that u have left .. how r u finding it .. also are you now lds
Parley Barlow is correct. He is my cousin btw. I left the FLDS cult when I was 18 in 2015. I actually went on TV and told my story to the world. You can find it on escaping polygamy season two episode two to learn more.
@@arielbarlow3475 please have u got the link to share as when I look it doesn't come up ..
Why don’t flds follow words of wisdom?
Imagine if you're FLDS member and you have a wife you need to sacrifice your wife, you need to force your wife to sex to a prophet 😂 for the glory of god? I couldn't see any logic here 😂 thats called you force your wife to cheat on you. Thats not Called Sacrifice. Jealousy is there also your wife dignity is there too, also if you have a sister you need to sex to your sister for the glory? Lol. Thats bullshet Polygamist 😂
"What are you? Mormon?"
"And we were like- Yes."
I never met FLDS people but they sound like Modern day people who are "Following the traditions of their Fathers", just like the Lamanites did in the blessed BOM.
We probably share the same values of loving god and loving thy neighbour, no different from any other faiths. Stay blessed FLDS people.
Blessed BOM lol. I love the book of mormon, it just is funney to immagine someone reading that out of context and thinking ur talking about an explosive. Not that ur comment is bad tho.
FLDS is a heretical pseudo mormon church ran by pedos...
@@funkycatholic6927 so is the LDS branch.
There’s no evidence of a group of people called the Lamanites existing.
I have had to explain to my non member family that I'm not going to take on 4 wives.
Live the truth ! Follow your heart do not let the world dictate what’s right or wrong ! The GLTS movement is supposedly about a quality ?? So why is it such a taboo if this is your truth - the person that claims to know the truth speak 🗣.
I know my truth, my fear is God not man, we are all lost, it’s our duty to follow our truth that will inevitably lead to GOD
lolz 😂had the same experience questioning mainstream lds and later on in my marriage trying not to give in nope she won and had her bi-girl friend living with us, i found i was a better person with both than single or monogamy
but as my coworkers thought ( i had 6 wifes and 12 kid's lolz 😂nope 1 wife 0-kids ) im not trying more than 3 wife's i just can't keep up mentally lol
@@dickcraniums8663 it needs to come back in the SLC Utah and navoo temple's as i feel the church is being Angolannised/uk-feel
I live near a large group of FLDS in Southern Utah, they have a town all to themselves just across the Arizona border. We see first hand here how many of the teen boys are thrown out so more young brides are available to the older men. We call them the 'lost boys'. Most of these homeless boys turn to drugs until St. George charities rehabilitate and care for them as the boys will allow. We've seen boys as young as 12 being abandoned by their families. And horrifically, many of them commit suicide. If anyone, male or female leaves the group, they are kept from seeing their children, their siblings and their parents -once they escape or are kicked out, they can't ever come back.
What I take even greater issue with is how their women are treated. Their women are not allowed to speak to outsiders, they will not usually smile or respond if you're friendly in a store or gas station. They don't let their women continue their educations into high-school levels which makes it much harder for them to have connections, or have the ability to get work if they want to leave. They teach everyone at special FLDS schools and they don't allow them to read or watch outside media. They marry the girls off very young, even underage; and the FLDS have made national headlines with the FBI investigating them for mass pedophilia.
The FLDS don't bring in new members very often and so the birth defects due to inbreeding are horrific. What we hear from the defected and abandoned members is that almost half the children born have defects, learning disabilities and health problems directly because Uncles are married to their nieces and first cousins are being married to each other. One girl I know of had three children with her own father, the birth records show she was pregnant with the first child when she was only 13.
It makes me cringe when people get our churches confused. Sure, we have some history and beliefs in common; but the policies of the FLDS hurts teen boys, hurts families and enslave women. I'm a woman and a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day Saints, I have always felt respected and appreciated as a single woman. I've never been pressured to be married, to be ignorant or to be isolated. The Relief Society, a group run by women within the church and lead by women is the biggest women's organization in the world. My church encourages women to educate themselves, the church schools and online college programs gives scholarships equally to men and women. The church would never tell us to avoid contact with a family member if they believe differently. All this goes to show me that while one church is run by lustful men, the fruits of Christ's church are good. No matter that we started at the same place and use many of the same scriptures. The attitude of the leadership and therefore church policies is worlds apart -we likely have far more values in common with Baptists than FLDS.
I had a coworker who had run away from the fLDS church with her family. They threatened to separate them when they were changing some sort of bounderies, and they would not be able to contact them ever again. This was their final straw. They decided to leave then and there, but they had to plan it out very carefully, because their every move was closely monitored by town and church leaders. I fear it's truly strayed very far from God in their practices.
You may live near the flds but your post shows that you don’t actually know any personally. So many of the things you said are totally inaccurate or at least a little skewed. I have flds friends that live in Southern Utah and they are honest and decent people. They generally like to keep to themselves and not try to force their beliefs on others. Media and outsiders usually just make up stories and inaccurate allegations based on stories from disgruntled former members or their own opinions of what it must be like in the flds church.
Almost all of what you said is not true
I dated a guy who had left Colorado City and he was the nicest guy in the world. Many of his brothers had left as well. Anyways, my dad left the church before they had changed a lot of their teachings and what was taught not that many years ago was absolutely what the FLDS still believe. Why do you think Utah is home to LDS? They had to come here to avoid persecution for their "strange" beliefs. If you think not being polygamous anymore was for any other reason than to achieve statehood, you have been hoodwinked. It even states in the current teachings that men can still have multiple wives in the Celestial Kingdom. If polygamy was no longer practiced, how could that be? FLDS is not a splinter group. Like it or not, FLDS is closer to the teachings of the original group than mainstream LDS will ever be. Hence the F for Fundamental (meaning it never changed). If a church were "true", why would it need changing?
@@lydiadewberry7328 Even though the FLDS church is a much smaller group of people, they definitely do live closer to the original teachings of Joseph Smith than the LDS church.
I love the new studio!! Great job!! And super good episode!!
Good video. You should do a comparison on the LDS church and the Community of Christ Church sometime.
frrr
Community of Christ is basically just protestant-lite at this point. They've watered down or gotten rid of most of their uniquely Mormon doctrines.
@@danielstark8356 that's my main beef with the mainstream lds is it's looking more like a uk church of English as i see it's lost it's way in attempt to get along with it's neighbour and governments ect
polygamist are 👍but don't force all the membership to participate as some will pick it and some will choose not to and the biblical correct as its okay to but not commanded to
I just keep picturing a room with 3 or 4 wives nagging you to clean the garage when I think of the FLDS. LOL!
They may nag the sons to clean the garage, but it's not their place to nag their husband.
Lol believe me, it’s not like that 😂
This is larger than sex ! I’m so sick of hearing this rubbish.
This is what God commands
If you guys want to learn more or better information about fundamentalist groups I would highly recommend the survivors podcast. It’s really good for learning about these groups in depth.
I would also add that fundamentalist groups (as far as I know) do not accept black people what so ever.
And neither the mainstream accepted black people when I was a child. And black people can't receive priesthood in mainstream today. The mainstream changed the original doctrine (plural marriage).
@@igormerbach that’s actually wrong. I am a member of the church & they can hold the priesthood and they do. They are apart of our church.
@@igormerbach I’m black and an Elder in the Lord’s church
@@igormerbach Advantage of having a prophet leading.
I know many Mormon Fundamentalist independents who do accept black people, and believe that they can have the Priesthood. I know of one of these who recently took a black woman as a second wife.
My grandfather grew up in the LDS church, he left but his siblings all stayed in the church. My great aunt and he husband are still in the church but at this point almost every child of theirs has left the church and they aren't even as extreme as the FLDS church. I've been watching Escaping Polygamy and I just feel so bad for anyone dealing with the side they show on that docuseries.
What about the RLDS I want to know more about how the church looks at them
They are no longer RLDS. They now go by the name: Community of Church. They ordain women. Quite different from what they used to be.
also, you should do a similar video on the community of christ/former RLDS
yes plz
Also, I expect the same flaw to be overcome. The splinter groups that call themselves RLDS still have a more interesting takeaway, imao, and would be far more interesting than "they denied the testimony of almost thirty women for a hundred years, then decided that they didn't really believe their Church was true, so they gave a priesthood they didn't care about to homosexuals and women as a token prize for hanging in there and to snatch up LDS Feminists on their way to Atheism,"
Michael Acton well someone has a strong opinion of the RLDS! I was more thinking on differences in practice like this video, but sure, go off
@@TheCutiepuffs oh, yeah. I think I coined "imao" (in my arrogant opinion.
I was just shocked when I investigated them. The one missionaries literally told me that all of Joseph's wives were lying in the Temple lot case. All of them. Couldn't be trusted.
I don't believe in religious discrimination. I've just had extremely shocking and hard experiences, and have learned some, imao, disgusting doctrines out of their group and out of Islam. Same with every fundementalist church I've seen. No organized body of Mormons affirms polygamy without also affirming curse of Cain theology, which is inherently racist and contradictory to foundation understandings of agency. It's actually calvinist, as is their understanding of plural marriage (God decided which of you will have how many wives, and God also said you need this many wives to get into heaven. Hence he's decided who will go before you were ever born)
The splinters are mixed in their acceptance of the reality that Polygyny happened, and one even claims to have the prophesied Son of Aaron, Presidency Bishop by Descent.
Michael Acton Oh yea the RLDS’ long standing denial of polygamy is just... odd. From my understanding since their reformation in 2000 they’re a bit more historically open. I just think it’s cool to see all the variations of Mormonism that exist, especially from the Utah church perspective. That’s why i’d like to see the video!
Well, Brigham Young said that it was necessary to be polygamous to enter the celestial kingdom.
Idk why y’all believe in a human being that’s like believing in Santa Claus, prophets are bullshitters😂learn the truth and free yourself
Guys there is a family channel called april and davey .. April was raised in the flds but she is now lds.. u could message her as she may be willing to help you
Th mormon church is a splinter church itself right ?
I am a high priest in the church of the Firstborn. I would love to get in touch with you guys.
What you guys said is pretty accurate. I come from a fundamentalist Mormon family and one of the things I was taught why we didn't belong to the mainstream church was because the church wanted to follow the world. I was taught to reject the outside world and that my family's church and other fundamentalist groups had the "truth" and our leaders held the keys of the priesthood handed down through Joseph Smith.
how does the missionary function for the FLDS/non-mainstream ? as im curiosity's about the faith being i was rased mainstream lds but not full happy with it but also not sure i would want to leave it
definitely not Protestant ( maybe Jewish but i like pork ect so not a great fit for me ) or full atheist im just feeling out of placement as polygamy/ect isn't acceptable in the mainstream lds and it's bothered me as a 6yo-nowadays
@@richardprice5978 I also want to say that I’m not racist or a homophobe and I’m still a Christian
Have you guys ever thought about doing a video/series on, A Marvelous Work and a Wonder?
They also believe in Adam-God that’s a big difference right?
Yes, and Brigham Young believed it too, so I don't really blame them. I love Brigham Young's teachings, but the Adam-God theory is ridiculous and it's so sad to think about how much confusion it has caused.
chrisberockin BY himself said at the end of his time that think he was false with the Adam-God Theorie
@@timneji source please?
But yes Adam God is big for them.
@@chrissessions6108 Don't call it ridiculous. Brigham himself in 1852 General Conference said: "Jesus, our elder brother, was begotten in the flesh by the same character that was in the garden of Eden, and who is our Father in Heaven. Now, let all who may hear these doctrines, pause before they make light of them, or treat them with indifference, for they will prove their salvation or damnation." (Journal of Discourses vol. 1 p. 51) - He said not to make light of them or treat them with indifference for they will prove our salvation. You can't treat them with indifference and be saved.
The main stream Mormons do believe in placement wives except we say it will happen in the resurrection.
Joseph smith jr taught that the only way into the highest kingdom of God except through plural marriage.
It's safe to say that flds have stayed true to Joseph smith's teachings where as the mainstream Mormons have strayed from joesph smith's teachings.
God is the same yesterday today and tomorrow.
And again the flds have remained the same and mainstream Mormons are always changing.
@@getharryonsax Section 132 mentions the doctrine of the New and Everlasting covenant, which is marriage, but only states that one is to be married under both federal law, AND His law. It only touches the whole "many wives" thing once at the start, and the rest of the chapter is dedicated to laying out how one is to be legally married under His law. Verse 19 even says "...if a man marry a wife by my word, which is my law, and by the new and everlasting covenant, and it is sealed unto them by the Holy Spirit of promise..." It only mentions one wife, so it works with the doctrine of today's LDS belief.
@@getharryonsax It doesn't say anywhere that the law of polygamy is everlasting. He even says that he will address it again later, as stated in Vs. 66: "And now, as pertaining to this law, verily, verily, I say unto you, I will reveal more unto you, hereafter; therefore, let this suffice for the present..." I can't see anywhere in there that it says the law of polygamy is everlasting.
@@getharryonsax Agreed. Prophets have had the saints practice polygamy for a short time. The quote above is stating that prophets have never stated that polygamy was required by everyone who ever and will ever live to gain exhaltation, however. Section 132 has the temporary law of polygamy separated from the eternal law of marriage by an address to Emma Smith to point out which will be eternally required, as opposed to temporary commands. That's why the verses that address the new and everlasting covenant don't mention multiple wives, just one.
@@getharryonsax K, now is it saying that polygamy is required under the new and everlasting covenant? Or under the fact that it was a commandment to the early saints, and not under the covenant of marriage?
@@getharryonsax Ok, here's where I disagree. My understanding of this section, is that it opens with the Lord addressing the Prophet's concerns, and stating that he'll elaborate. Then, he lays down the law of the New and Everlasting Covenant of marriage, applicable to the temporary law of polygamy. He addresses Emma Smith after this, and instructs her to be faithful. Finally, he explains to Joseph why polygamy, when commanded, is acceptable under certain conditions. This is my interpretation, and makes the most sense to me.
I always find it sad to think about those who where in plural marriages when they said "no more". Of course people would leave. They were/are families.
Unfortunately this lead them off into darkness from the prophet and new revelations and developments. And there are so many different FLDS groups it's crazy.
Like Rockland Ranch is one, near where I live. And they do not drink there. It is not allowed. But they do drink coffee or at least some do.
But they are totally normal as in the way they dress. Like you'd see them in public and would never know them from Adam
Non denominational beachside life in Sydney is so much simpler and salvation is like a passionate kiss...
The original FLDS that broke away from the LDS wanted to keep things the way Joseph Smith said GOD told them to be. Now the FLDS believed in what Joseph Smith told them and Joseph not getting any of this from GOD could just up and change any part of the LDS and all he has to say is that he got a revelation from GOD and no one was allowed to question it.
Basically FLDS is the ORIGINAL teachings of the LDS church. Lol. Sooooo.
What I find amusing is the amount of care and caution taken so as to represent the FLDS viewpoint appropriately. Now if only they would show the same care and tact when dealing with Christianity, we might be able to have a respectful dialogue.
Really because I didn't get that all
@@davidjanbaz7728 ummm no one I know does that, and I have extensive experience in this area. I don't think those were Mormon men in straw hats and suspenders. Maybe it was the local FLDS or Amish community!
@@joeoleary9010 Yes because it's a branch of their illness. To speak ill of the FLDS is to speak ill of their own history.
@@BrendonKing Not that I would seek to speak ill of anyone that I don't personally know and have an understanding of, but it isn't necessarily true that speaking ill of the FLDS, or RLDS groups is automatically speaking ill of LDS history. there has been like 100 years of different practices and teachings between the differing LDS sects, so there is plenty to critique without speaking ill of their communal histories from before they split. In fact the nature and justifications for those splits is a good place to start when critiquing the separate histories of each sect.
david janbaz I don’t know! That sounds pretty crazy, maybe they were just wearing suspenders and stuff for style or something? That’s not the clothing I’ve ever seen at the temples in Michigan or Utah!
Would I want to share my husband?
.... nope.
@Juliette Tellimm
Good point
FLDS kept the original beliefs of MORMONISM and the teaching of Prophet Joseph Smith....Polygamy was later abolished by the Latter Day Saints in the early 1900s.
I had a question on 1/2 black people. What about them?
The policy used to be that if a man's genealogy could be traced back to Africa, then he could not receive the priesthood. The Church started to really take off in Brazil in the mid-1900s, so it was becoming a real headache to try to draw the line for the seed of Cain, and they desperately needed more priesthood holders with all the new wards and stakes being formed. So basically, we have the faithfulness of the mixed race people in Brazil to thank for the change.
@@chrissessions6108 are you serious? u still believe the seed of cain thing jeez i don't find this offensive whatsoever.
@@harambeboy It's weird God waited until they almost lost that status to reveal further light and knowledge to his messengers on Earth.
@@BrendonKing That's not exactly how this or many other revelations work... The records indicate that the President Kimball "entreated the Lord on the matter often" and the answer He often got was that the brothern must be unified. Therefore because there were some known to have racist tendencies, in the then openly racist culture, it was not likely that the brothern were going to be unified on that matter. until 1978 when they were in fact unified. several of those brothern later spoke out about it. McConkie said that he believed what he thought to be true, but that when the Lord speaks you listen, indicating that though he may still have had some racist tendencies he understood that it was wrong and that he needed to change. others such as Heber J. Grant and David O. McKay, said that they knew even before 1978 it was to be a temporary restriction and that when the time was right it would be lifted. and there is in fact no mention of any revelation creating the restriction, but rather info showing it may have in fact been imposed due to racist or pro-slavery pressure from the government at the time of Brigham young. Smith ran for president in 1844 as an abolitionist and was under political persecution for that alone. so it makes sense that the church would be under pressure to follow the pro-slavery culture and desires of the government that has authority over them, and is persecuting them.. not to mention the very racist culture that persisted throughout that time. Lincoln only sought to do away with slavery because it was causing more issues than if they were all free men, and half the nation was so racist that they started a civil war over it. and that wasn't for another 20+ years after Smith tried to teach about the equality of all men both black and white. several prophets between Young and Kimball indicated that though they knew of no revelation restricting it they didn't want to over turn a policy and practice decision of Young without a clear revelation. and don't forget that even up until the late 1960's Jim crow segregation laws were enforced and racism was still very rampant throughout the entire nation. so lets not pretend like the leaders of the church were not influenced by their culture, or that those of the culture would have been accepting of the change much earlier than when it took place. it's not like Lincoln won the civil war to emancipate the slaves and everyone was magically not racist anymore except the leaders of the LDS church.
@@harambeboy "Also in 1978 I believe the Church was about to lose tax exempt status from the US over discrimination laws."
Urban legend. The KKK is still tax exempt. In fact the protests of the early 70's had stopped by the time the Revelation was received in '78.
also... you guys should do a video where you compare Community of Christ (formerly RLDS) to LDS
There were two main groups, and about a dozen active groups came off those.
FLDS has arranged marriage, but that's relatively recent in development. The Allred group and most fundementalists don't. Most polygamists are independents. I can provide numbers to multiple Church's missionaries, and they'd love to share with you.
So FLDS is an offspring of LDS? same root.
This was such a great video! Lots of fun to watch! I definitely vote in favor of more videos about splinter groups. This kind of thing really fascinates me!
I never think Amish when I see FLDS. I grew up around the Amish.
They’re basically stuck in time
FLDS=Big Love
Year of Polygamy podcast for expert knowledge and research
I love that podcast!
5:50 ... Joseph Smith LITERALLY did this to several VERY young girls, as young as 14. My wife is from a line of Mormons that lead back to a girl of 15 that Joseph did this to.
Well if you research the early plural marriages of JS, then you would know that he that they were told that they would have to wait until they were 19 before they could be with him as a wife.
@@brettmajeske3525 and this makes it ok how? Also.... Not true at all.
@@joshuaboehner4652 So you feel the girls in question were lying? We have their journals. Both went on to have plural marriages to other men as adults.
And back in the 1800's 14 was considered legal. JS preached sermons that men who married young wives, (which was even more common outside the LDS community than within) should wait until the wife was 19 to consummate. Rather progressive for his time.
Also he never had revelation to marry his 14 year old wife. The father asked Joseoh to marry his daughter. And even then they were never in the same room without a chaperone
@@brettmajeske3525 14 is also considered legal today in some circumstances. It doesn't make it right. Also the average marriage age for women was around 22. There's a lot of mental gymnastics to try and have Joseph be a good man for being a pedophile.
growing up polygamy is a good channel that’s taught me a lot about this
Polygamist is not good, imagine if you have a husband, are you willing to sex to other men of the church like a prophet of the church 😂 if you have a kids male and female they both sex each other did you accept that kind of idiotically cult. Thats fucking bullshet.
I thought the women chose their husbands, not just their prophet. I LOVED that video! I am so interested to learn more about this and splinter groups!
yah they got it wrong 🤦🏻♂ my class mate ruth wore maykup💄 ( she didn't advertise that she was lds or religion ect ) and juilray/ear rings ect but yes she dressed 👗differently from the others in school
my background is main-lds but no originally it was optional ( some have taken this out of context to be short, same way for kids "be fruitful and multiply " but really that's under 15 kids as xy= you suck at parenting and need to stop adding more kids to the marriage for me maximum is 6kid's total ) to have 1-4 wife's my ( pre1920's ) great grandparents were polygamist and yes the church has lost it's way and that needs to come back , for me ( im a theist* as i can't see being another religion for now as im morality trying to be consistent in my belief's and now picking a "winning team" for that sunday/week ) and my non religious/nondenominational Christen wife i ended up living with her Christen bi girl friend and yes 👍it works out for us ( vs me trying to force monogamy ect ) ( im a better husband/person in polly vs monogamy vs bachelor ) better and no it's not for everyone even if you're lds/religious
the church's do a bad job of explaining how the mainstream lds ( as in main-lds it's not talked about and the polygamy/brake-off's are evil and don't talk to them ect, btw not fair some are good people ) is different than flds or early/mo-brake-offs are different than them and iv had coworker's ask me and i didn't have a answer to them ( that whys im watching the video to learning something new ) and some where anti-lds and not having the answers made it worsened to the church and me and some others would join but afterward saying that the mainstream doesn't practice xy= thing's like polygamy are flipped against the lds church after saying that but are okay with me
Also the Teaching that a A man most enter to polygamy to get into the highest degree of glory can be traced back to Brigham Young. Joseph Smith told some his wives that he got a revelation that he was supposed to marry them. Be careful what stones you throw here.
Context is vital for analyzing things said by past leaders. If you look at the context in which Brigham Young was saying that, he was referring to the act of condemning a commandment given by God, which in this case, happened to be polygamy. To go against any commandment is to deny one's self the ability to return to Heaven. However, once polygamy was done away with, the necessity to follow that commandment was no longer needed for Heaven to be achieved. The discussion these guys had in this video is no different than if the ancient 12 apostles were discussing how the archaic teachings of the Law of Moses were still followed by the Pharisees.
@@_My_UA-cam I guess .. I think the FLDS and AUB would argue that it never went.. Mostly based on the John Taylor revelation in 1886...which I'm disappointed they didn't mention
@@coalhouse1981 There are a few issues with the John Taylor revelation. Not only do we have no original copy, but it was also discovered after his death, leaving us without any certainty he actually wrote it. If it was actually valid, John Taylor never discussed it with anyone, and it was never canonized into the Church. Secondly, the revelation talks about the law of the new and everlasting covenant, which is not synonymous with polygamy and based on context through additional scripture, most likely referred to the gospel covenant, as referred to several times throughout the Doctrine and Covenants (and is also mentioned in the Bible a few times).
I can understand what you're saying regarding the FLDS and others arguing it validates their desires to continue polygamy. Unfortunately for them, all the surrounding context, however, seems to disagree with that notion.
@@_My_UA-camyou are half right. Handwriting anaylis has proven that John Taylor wrote it. You are right that we only have copies. You are right that we don't have evidence of the secret ordinations other that the statement from the Wooleys. As I said before the stuff attached to the 1886 relevation is a lot harder to verify. But I would liked to see a discussion of it at least since its so important to Fundamentalists claims
@@coalhouse1981 That's a fair point, and I agree would make for an interesting discussion. Maybe you should petition to have them do a Faith and Beliefs episode on it.
After reading the manifesto of President Woodruff, I feel that the reason for giving up polygamy was so that Utah could be come a state. Political.
Legitimate question: how much of both faiths/ belief systems come from Scripture alone?
Do you all receive the Holy Spirit to help navigate truth from false?
Do you all commune with Abba (Father God) in your own personal time to ask him if this is okay?
Or is this all passed down by man?
Both things. We read the Bible, the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, you understand more of each other by reading them as complementary. We also hear from the leaders of the church and they hear from the holy spirit, but we can and shall seek for personal revelation through the holy spirit and feith as well.
Is it true that when you take communion you replace the grape juice with water meaning you denied the blood of Jesus that was shed for you sins,You Mormons need to get down on your nees and repent to God.Amen I will pray for all of you.
You need to repent as well .
The FLDS just seem to be sticking to the original LDS beliefs which is fair enough really. The mainstream church just caved in to pressure to give up polygamy.
@ 5:49 you said “I hate when people say ... I prayed and God said I needed to marry you ....”. Isn’t that exactly what Joseph Smith did? He manipulated young girls by saying God said so. You should read the Happiness Letter.
There are honestly soooooo many differences between the two...
FLDS hold to all original teaching of Joseph's Myth. But by 1897 the SLC Mormons had abandoned every vestige of the "true and everlasting restoration":::. Adoption, polygamy, blood atonement, consecration, communalism, millennialism,Adam-God, were all gone.
Great Episode!
When I tell propel I’m Mormon they misunderstand so bad😭😭I feel like the Lds church is very misunderstood
You two are really cool...!!
I love all of your videos, thanks guys.
so basically, God said polygamy was cool for a period, then changed his mind? got it.
I would say it a little differently myself, I would say a man (the Prophet of the time not sure which one) said God told him polygamy was right and should be practiced, then later another man (a different Prophet that they mentioned in the video) said it wasn't to be practiced as it wasn't the time, and now it is I believe a basis for excommunication if as a member you practice polygamy. That in turn brings up many questions that we don't (or at least I don't) know the answer to, like is polygamy correct just not at the moment or was it never correct and the first Prophet was wrong. The main thing I remember when thinking about this is all the members of the church from the Prophet down to me are all human and can make mistakes, so whilst I have no idea what and i'm not in the position for God to tell me what as its not my responsibility i'm sure there will be some things in the church that were not instructions from God, this may sound like a big problem but it really isn't as whilst people aren't perfect God's plan is and he has asked us to follow the words of the Prophets, as such if we are doing something that isn't exactly what God wants for the church and we don't personally know we shouldn't do it, if it is following what the Prophet has asked of us we will not be judged poorly for it, so basically if God's Prophet guides us to behave in a way we should strive to do it. Hope that makes some sense but its 5am here so maybe totally impossible to understand.
Have you read the Bible? Because that's exactly how polygamy works in the Bible. I don't claim to understand God's purposes in establishing polygamy, but he has definitely done so repeatedly. Kinda like how God commanded Abraham to kill his son. Not a moral action under normal circumstances. But Abraham's willingness to slay his son like an animal was counted as righteousness.
God is LOVE
Gave Commandment out of: LOVE
Took Commandment away out of: LOVE
He is unchanging and unchangable (Moroni 8:18)
Eric LDS yes!
@@systematicrisk We don't know that. There has been speculation both for and against why that may be true or false; but the Church has no doctrines or teachings supporting that theory.
My mom. Is the oldest of fifteen kids.
So what about Joseph's Smith? The lds honors him as the prophet , but he was a false prophet. So no matter the splinter groups or not , they all are told Smith was a prophet .
Lots of teachings of the lds is really just made up imagination of men passing it off as divine. People eat it up because the gospel is to simple. So let's add a bunch of works and man made teachings , and let's make sure to brainwash people from a young age to never question the lds doctrines and practiced.
So big deal the main lds doesn't practice polygamy . They still teach false doctrine
Jesus and Satan are spirit brothers . Elohim having g physical sex with Mary to give Jesus a body.
Just crazy stuff and not biblical .
Fundamentalist religions encourage large families. That would include Mormons, Orthodox Jews, and Reformed Postmillenial Christians.
That opening line is a lie. So what can 2 liars teach me?
Seems like you're taking it out of context.
A friend of mine who served as Relief Society President in our ysa ward is the second eldest of eight kids!
My mom is the youngest of eight kids! Big families are good for farms-- my mom grew up on a farm!
Flds are supposed to keep the word of wisdom
Joseph Smith CLEARLY taught polygamy in D&C 132. He along with multiples of Presidents of the church practiced it. He is clearly revered as THE prophet of THE one true church. The official proclamation of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is that the church does not endorse nor practice polygamy. There is a clear disparity here. If you call yourself a Mormon or a Latter Day Saint and you believe that Joseph wrote the Doctrine and Covenants and was inspired by God to write it then you HAVE TO BELIEVE in the practice of polygamy. The Doctrine and Covenants also clearly teaches in the same chapter that Celestial exaltation can only be achieved through plural marriage. Does it not seem entirely hypocritical to say as a Latter Day Saint that you don’t practice polygamy but the majority of leadership in past days in the Latter Day Saints practiced polygamy and believed Celestial exaltation could ONLY be achieved with multiple wives? You can’t have it both ways. What is the answer?
So why did the founder of the LDS church take many wives? I find this to be one of the more perplexing LDS doctrines. I don't believe in continuous revelation. God is, was and will always will be the same. Hence my UA-cam handle.
@@audrey3729 Sorry, but that sounds like polygamous apologetics or something. God instituted a one man, one woman marriage at the beginning. He tolerated, but never commanded (except apparently in the book of Mormon), polygamy. In fact Solomon was said to be driven further from God because of his fleshly desires and having so many wives. Abraham had an affair on his wife because he didn't trust God. The prophets clearly aren't perfect and when does God start talking and they stop? We are told to judge a prophet or leader by their fruit and I don't think polygamy bears good fruit. It demeans women to child-bearing objects more or less.
And just because something was done, doesn't mean God approved or desired it. He may have "permitted" it. But this is a fact we see this again throughout the Bible.
@@audrey3729 I thought he permitted it because of divine revelation? That is what another video from SU stated. It's also in the doctrine and covenants.
@@audrey3729 Apparently Smith purported to have a vision (3 apparently) that commanded polygamy of him. So both commanded and permitted, allegedly.
It's all good. Thank you for responding. I appreciate hearing from a proponent of LDS theology vs one of its detractors. There was another Saints Unscripted video (the shorter one) that spoke of polygamy and mentioned Smith's visions regarding it.
@@audrey3729 They didn't stop practicing with the first manifesto in 1890. It took a second manifesto in 1904.
well according to d&c 132 it is essential for our exaltation to practice it and according to Joseph Smith said: "If anything should have been suggested
by us * * * except by commandment, or thus saith the Lord, we do
not consider it binding." (Church History Vol. 3:295) and as we read the manifestation it clearly doesn't say that and d&c 98 7-6 it says Therefore, I, the Lord, justify you, and your brethren of my church, in befriending that law which is the constitutional law of the land; 7 And as pertaining to law of man, whatsoever is more or less than this, cometh of evil. there's a secret there the lds church lost all presthood with the 7th present just like John Taylor said it would there's a difference between presthood and the church that law is for the presthood not the church
Is there a reason FLDS is so conservative with their dressing yet Kingston, AUB, etc, are not? Their principles seem very similar and that’s the big takeaway I see. Just curious.
it is a different interpretation and understanding of the principle of "modesty". Some see it as being modest in all aspects (cost, color, appearance, coverage, etc.) and others see it as modest in only certain aspects (coverage only).
suggestion when it comes to splinter groups: do an episode on the AUB. I think they are the chillest fundamentalists.
Three or more wives?? You have got to be kidding me, lol. I know a lot of flds men that only have one wife and they are just as accepted in the church as those with more than one...also, the flds people do not believe in polygamy which is that a spouse of either sex my have more than one partner at the same time. They do believe in plural marriage which is that a man can have more than one wife...
It's true that they are accepted, but always with the understanding that one day they will receive more wives! In home economics class Warren Jeffs said, "ladies, you will not be able to enter the highest degree in the celestial kingdom unless your husband has other wives! You need to learn to be accepting of them and learn to get along!"
@@sarahb1936 obviously plural marriage is a big part of the flds beliefs, but you don’t have to have more than one wife to be a part of the religion.
If you really want to know something about someone don't ask there ex especially if their ex hates them. Like the books and movies put out about the FLDS. If you really want to know if they are "FLDS" ask them they will tell you. if they are they will stive to uphold each and every fundamental principle of the church. The word of wisdom should be upheld to live up to the standards! And violence against innocent people(children or wives) is not ever right. Most of the people who have left the FLDS didn't understand it. "The letter of the law killeth but the spirit of the law bringeth life." We as humans are not each others judge of where we end up in heaven but i see it that we will go to live with the people we are like.
you should read some memoirs from ex-flds people. They are super interesting testimonies. The most extreme groups are a bit secretive about things, so to understand it ex-members’ views are enlightening. I would recommend “the witness wore red” by rebecca muser, “escape” and “triumph” by carolyn jessop, and “breaking free” by rachel jeffs. “Prophet’s prey” by sam brower and jon krakauer is also great!
Or, to be fair, read something from one of the hundreds of groups that don't abuse their women and children. Rick Bennett used to interview a few of them regularly.
Michael Acton even if its only a small few who abuse their women and children (which is hard to know) I think it’s important to hear that and know about it. The books also talk about their daily lives and religious beliefs. Also, if you trust wikipedias numbers the AUD and FLDS church, which most of these testimonies come from, are the largest in terms of population. I will for sure check those interviews out though, it is important to hear about the diversity within the FLDS and not paint them all with one brush
@@TheCutiepuffs key point. The FLDS are generally more commonly abusive. Only one group is referred to as FLDS, and if you only follow the AUB and the FLDS, you will miss more than 80% of the population, most of which do not follow a church or prophet.
Michael Acton ok fair! It’s a lot easier to follow organized groups than independent individuals, at least as an outsider. The video is also called FLDS vs LDS so I was assuming they were mostly talking about the organized churches with prophets
@@TheCutiepuffs I agree. This isn't an issue you created, or one that they created. The political force that is Utah Mormon culture has tried to oversimplify and dehumanize the situation into an us verses them where we are the innocent monogamist and the only polygamists are these pioneer dressed crazies and the muslims.
I'm a bit jaded, but it's not your fault or theirs. But I think they are some of the only people capable of fixing it.
Not much of a difference.
if the book of mormon truly restored the gospel, why are there so many splinter groups? I genuinely want to know.
Well some people think that the Lds church is no longer true so they broke of like how Protestants did with the Catholic Church.
Remember when Jesus Christ first started his church? It only took a few decades for people to take his teachings and start dozens of different churches all striving to follow the same gospel. It doesn't mean Jesus did anything wrong, it just means that people screwed it up later. Same thing can be applied to the church started by Joseph Smith, provided that he really was acting as a prophet for Jesus Christ. There will always be people in the church who choose to separate themselves and go their own way, but with the lack of heavenly revelation they are going to screw some things up. That doesn't mean that there is necessarily anything wrong with the church. Logic, yo.
You could say the same thing about Christianity as a whole.
because people make choices. the prophet can't control whether or not people go off and make their own groups. Jesus didn't control others with different religious viewpoints/philosophies.
What is stopping men from making false splinter groups?
The CES letter gives some interesting information on polygamy, like, even though the lds church supposedly stopped polygamy in 1889, they had secret polygamist marriages up until 1915.
Do you have evidence that it happened?
@@chaseallen7499 yes. Marriage certificates, journal entries, and the church even admits to it. The CES letter gives documentation to everything it brings up. Also, most of the questions in there were also brought up by church historian B. H. Roberts nearly 100 years before.
Joshua Boehner can you link them then?
@@chaseallen7499 1915 may be a little late
A man can be sealed to more than one wife so in heaven there is polygamy. According to LDS.
Ok kiddies, kiddies... I shall do a rebuttal video to this and explain the history oh the 1890’s and how Polygamy was actually done away with and WHY The FLDS split... its common historical knowledge IF you’re willing to look at history books and look at the situation OBJECTIVELY and not trying to prove a point
Netflix brought me here
Dood i knew there was a church that broke off, but i had no idea about it. And i am not sure if i have ever met an flds person.
There are over 200 break offs from the lds church. The main lds church itself is even a break off.
You still can't deny the fact that your founder had many wives.
That’s shame you don’t follow the prophet Joseph smith
I am a ex FLDS member .
Same
Interesting. Hope u are havn a good day
Craziest thing though.. is that if you read what Brigham Young and Orson Pratt taught, in general conference as well as broadly as well as what Joseph Smith did and lied in public and notarized statements about not doing is what fundamentalists largely continued.
(Joseph kept polygamy a secret VIP club, denied doing it publicly and with signatures including those of apostles who also secretly practiced; in an official proclamation to the world [total lie].-> one of his apostles didn't like the lie and called him on it -> excommunicated -> pissed off and worried he starts printing press to tell people Joseph lied and was definately practicing polygamy -> Joseph Smith gets pissed and burns printing press -> Joseph arrested for treason -> Joseph murdered not for BOM but for polygamy and marrying living men's wives by mobs of people)
FLDS pretty much continued mormonism as was taught from Joseph to Brigham if the US government hadn't threatened to essentially invade Utah and take big Wilf and SLC out, if they didn't stop polygamy.. The manifesto wasn't just walk in the park revelation... it was entirely because Wilford knew his options were A) Die or go to federal prison with the twelve apostles or B) stop polygamy. With very few options was birthed a very extorted manifesto. Not revelation.. just concession to the power of man. Up to that point polygamy was absolutely taught as "the way"... which is how polygamy was sold to the early women who didn't want it but fell privy to religious manipulation just as hordes continue to do today free of history and just dynamic and remixed religion to fill the pot holes.. such as Fanny Alger and the timeline of sealing power vs when Emma discovered her and Joseph in the Barn together.. coupled with Oliver Cowdery's personal letter of condemnation to Joseph (him sort of inconveniently being a very reputable witness directly around the circumstances then...) as one humble example. We all know the twelve today have read The book of Napoleon and The great War and are terrified at how they both predated the BOM, sound nearly identical, with the latter even being read in public schools in New York in Joseph's immediate childhood.. as you go up that leadership chain you see why those before you hid so much.. and they continue to hide and deceive solid root robots.. just like I used to be. Fill those potholes or tell stories of how there never existed such a thing. Same spin.
Y'all seem really nervous on this one.
The FLDS can be aggressive when it comes to defending their faith. You think the Evangelicals are bad... you should see them.
There are many FLDS people who use the words plural marriage and celestial marriage interchangeably. My grandma’s first marriage was a plural marriage but it was definitely not celestial, her husband stopped loving her when he married his second wife and the two ladies just didn’t get along. When my grandma married the second time she married the brother of her first husband as his second wife. She never lived in the same house as his first wife but he cared for all of her children, weather they were his or not, the same as he cared for the children of his first wife. She eventually left her second husband because she believe that Waren Jeffs was The prophet of God and he would not recognize Jeffs as a prophet. Grandma tries not to see her “apostate” children but Grandpa has never been afraid to see any of his children. My Grandma had two plural marriages and they both came to and end, celestial marriage is supposed to be something that doesn’t end. My point is that there is more to celestial marriage than the number of wives a man has and that’s not exactly taught in many groups.
Seems like Mormons are more interested in the system of exaltation(becoming gods) then in God Himself. Kinda of self centered and selfish religion. Its kind of makes sense since its different god to begin with. Feels like the Mormon gods are not worthy of worship at all since you talk so little of them and a lot about yourselves.
The LDS still have a form a polygamy to this day
What about ✨c e l e s t i a l ✨ polygamy? When a widower is remarried and sealed to another woman for example... Y’all (including your prophet) practice that.
Widows can’t be sealed to more than one man
Jae Barnaby oh okay I fixed it thanks!
What about it?
DDFStar The hosts really tried to distance themselves from the FLDS practice of polygamy... Just seems odd when y’all technically still practice it 🤷🏼♀️
@emptybusseat They practice a trickier version of polygamy, where they can't be attacked by governments and they can smokescreen Christian apologists who try to claim the LDS church isn't Christian itself.
You guys should strike iron while it is hot. Do a video about what the church has been counseled to consume with regards to media (especially in light of "Cuties"). I bet it would get a lot of views. I have seen a number of so-called members of this church defend such outrageous garbage, calling the rest of us close-minded for not having seen the movie. Do we need to watch it to know that it is absolute filth? Just look at the parental warning put out on Netflix. That in and of itself should be enough to convince every member of the church to stay away from such garbage. Absolutely disgusted.
There's a girl in my church who whines up having two kids every year in the same calendar year her husband keeps her constantly pregnant
Baptism like Matt 3:13 shows all three persons of the Holy Trinity present. Baptism is essential for salvation. Sacred Scripture came to us through the Catholic Church with the canon compiled in 397 council of Carthage. Sacred Scripture is Within Sacred Tradition carried from the Apostles through apostalic succession and carried with great saints like Augustine, Francis, and Thomas Aquinas. The Didache and the Dead Sea Scrolls give credibility to the validity of the One Church started by Jesus Himself, and the story never changed. The attacks have been relentless, but 266 Popes later give you the truth. You know in your heart that this is the One True Church. New Testament is Covenant where Jesus substituted Himself for the perfect passover lamb. You have to Eat His Flesh to have life within you. 7 sacraments for Grace. Drop what you're doing and come follow Christ - the second Person of the Trinity. Try to imagine Sacred Scripture brought to the world by the Catholic Church. Not to be tampered with, nor adding or subtracting anything. It's a Catholic Document of the Church Christ started. Find a Church near you and get Baptized. PAX
Yep the Trinity is a widely misunderstood concept. I find plenty of evangelical Christians don’t get this right and adopt an incorrect modalist approach.
Is there an actual non-political explanation for why suddenly polygamy was not okay anymore after it was okay? I mean, if God let you stop it for a while to survive, that's one thing, but then it's still not fundamentally wrong. There'd be then no real reason why the ban couldn't be lifted in the present day if a state referendum legalized the practice.
At the time, there were very few members of the church, so polygamy was partially to help grow the church. And it was unsafe for women to travel with out a husband. Since that is no longer the case, it is no longer necessary or proper to have more than one spouse.
@@audrey3729 That seems really ad hoc. If the reason was women's safety of travel, then they could have just recruited more men to make up the difference, so that the ratio would still be 1:1.
I mean think about it. By your line of reasoning more men in the group would mean that the group as a whole would have greater protection. Then perhaps polygamy would be the exceptional case for widows.
@@thegoodlydragon7452 they couldn't just recruit more men. That's not how it works. Men were being killed just because they were members of the lds church. They were extremely persecuted. They definitely tried to grow the church through teachings and conversion, but at that time it wasn't that easy. And it still isn't.
It's all about CONTROL....
Actually, LDS do technically still practice polygamy. A man can be spiritually sealed to more than one wife in the LDS temple.
Yes but we have to make the distinction between physical polygamy and spiritual sealings. You can't just say Mormons still practice polygamy because the usage of that word is still primarily understood as physically having multiple bitches. We need to come up with a word that distinguishes both words
@@yuinasweakestsoldier While I agree with the general sentiment, I disagree with your language choices. This channel's community guidelines does list profanity as one of the reasons for postings to be removed.
The FLDS doesn't drink either. Y'all are very similar, the LDS just doesn't dress the same way or practice polygamy or physically abuse people.
The difference is very simple, my friend: the mainstream changed the original doctrine for convenience (plural marriage) and covered up original texts.
That is one of the most annoying things I have always gotten from people who think we are the FLDS or one of the many splinter groups.
Lol im watching this with with captions and u guys said "Church of Jesus Christ of Ladder Day Saints" and the captions said "of loddery saints" XD
Don't know if you guys are readers it there are two books that I have read written by ex-LDS members. Escape by Carolyn Jessop and Lost Boy by Brent Jeffs. There are tough parts in both, it's a dark world but very informative if you want to explore their world. Maybe you could even reach out and invite one or both of them on the show. That would be very interesting.
Also, most are fairly liberal in a lot of ways. Politically, most are for the religious freedom arguement for gay marriage. They clearly believe in a form of planned economy in most groups. Other than that, I don't think conservative is an accurate description, though modest and traditional would be.
Agreed on the planned economy thing. It’s super interesting to see how they practice the United Order today
@@TheCutiepuffs technically, it's flawed. The United Order as taught was designed bro be agency based stewardship over personal property with the understanding that any may ask of you and you may ask of any, with the Church only acting as legal owner of goods to prevent allegations of theft. That's my take anyway, no more valid than theirs.
I'd have to agree with Michael as well. Any time a government has imposed a forced charity, and we as the people haven't given freely and given a chance to exercise charity, we have seen it be the means of depriving us of agency and the practice of unrighteous dominion begins--it's never been shown otherwise. Our understanding of scripture supports this as well. That's my two cents.
..Maybe liberty is the right word though?
@@marktrosper4397 that doesn't change that the way they practice their understanding of UO isn't extremely interesting, yeah?
I love how people in the comments try to justify the lds church history lol😁
Already getting gay vibes….anyone else?
the church said that black members couldn't take part of the priesthood originally, then God changed it up later? got it.
Alma 3:6-9 "And the skins of the Lamanites were dark, according to the mark which was set upon their fathers, which was a curse upon them because of their transgression and their rebellion against their brethren, who consisted of Nephi, Jacob, and Joseph, and Sam, who were just and holy men.
And their brethren sought to destroy them, therefore they were cursed; and the Lord God set a mark upon them, yea, upon Laman and Lemuel, and also the sons of Ishmael, and Ishmaelitish women. And this was done that their seed might be distinguished from the seed of their brethren, that thereby the Lord God might preserve his people, that they might not mix and believe in incorrect traditions which would prove their destruction. And it came to pass that whosoever did mingle his seed with that of the Lamanites did bring the same curse upon his seed.
you can't say white is purity because in 3 Nephi 2:15 "And their curse was taken from them, and their skin became "white like unto the Nephites" (conversion of Lamanites)
12th President of the LDS church, Spencer W. Kimball said, "At one meeting a father and mother and their sixteen-year-old daughter were present, the little member girl-sixteen-sitting between the dark father and mother, and it was evident she was several shades lighter than her parents-on the same reservation, in the same hogan, subject to the same sun and wind and weather. . . 4. These young [p. 9] members of the Church are changing to whiteness and to delightsomeness (Improvement Era, December 1960, pp. 922-23).
It wasn't ever official doctrine it was just policy. They changed the policy.
I can't tell what your intention is here, but I'll offer a reply ignoring whatever it might be.. The Lord has dealt with race in His own ways. More questions put it into perspective. Why was the gospel reserved to the Jews and not shared with the gentiles for a time? Why was the Levitical priesthood only had among the Levites? Why did prophets like Moroni receive direction to stand as a witness only and not establish the Lords church among the people at that time? And why did the Lord use the color of his people's skin to divide different people from false or sinful traditions and people who would be filled with hatred for a respective people of righteousness. It was clear from history that it was not simply the latter question (and the examples you gave) we are dealing with and how we should understand. If so, all members would be white as a mark that is consistent to divide the righteous from the wicked. Whenever necessary, the curse was removed. Whenever not necessary it wasn't, but God established what was good. And clearly and deeply we rejoiced when the word was given that all worthy members would receive these blessings. If you actually want to understand study: www.churchofjesuschrist.org/study/manual/gospel-topics-essays/race-and-the-priesthood?lang=eng (and study prayerfully.) = ).
@@EricLovesCHRIST if it was only policy, why did there have to be a revelation from God changing it?
@@BrendonKing It was only policy, never doctrine. Doctrines are eternal truths required for our salvation, like baptism. Look it up if you don't believe Eric or myself.
@@_My_UA-cam I believe you two are in the incorrect here. If it truly was "just a policy", then you wouldn't have needed an official declaration added to the Doctrine and Covenants disavowing that "policy".
Sorry I hold your leaders to a higher standard than you guys, I guess.
I think that FLDS abandoned baptisms for the dead, as did the RLDS church
Also you can be rebaptized as many times as you feel the need. I don't see the point though.
@@chrissessions6108 in the RLDS? LDS church had done it before.....to join the church, for forgiveness of sins, to re-commit. But not anymore.
Kind of cool to see Young Thor on your show.
Very informative, thanks
I say this with respect but you need to study a bit more lads
"Better to have 28 wives and 28 best friends than 1 quarrelsome wife and a porn addiction." -Unknown
Or manage your porn addiction and be faithful to one woman
a personal porn addiction has nothing to do with a quarrelsome spouse
@@Ether-pb5gb I never said it did?
You guys are a bit whooshed at the moment I think
If I say that "Humility is better than Chastity" does that mean that Chastity is bad? What does it mean? Should someone really be saying "Or have both" in that situation as an optimal response??? Of course not. The quote is hammering home on Humility being good, by comparing it to something that is also very good. If it's used in the right context, like someone bragging about their chastity, it can have an additional meaning.
If you read the proverbs, sometimes things like apples and oranges are compared and that's fine. They CAN be compared. "Better to have wisdom than gold" Is a good example. (Why not both?!?!?!?!? LOL)
What I like about the quote is that it emphasizes attitude and hypocrisy. Many people that call Joseph Smith a false prophet for his polygamy are they themselves engaging in porn (thousands of girls not 28) and are mishandling their God given gift of a single spouse, which contains overall worse sins than what they are accusing Joseph Smith of having. Because of the hypocrisy of their own sexual sins and misconduct of wive(s), they should not be talking (see Matthew 7:1-5)
Haha that's terrible!